That's the bland/resigned/? remark of Ariane Striemeier-Gellsen, "[t]he owner of a burnt-out Saab on the Elbchaussee [who] said she had just got her children to get ready for school when about 30 masked protesters starting throwing bottles and molotov cocktails on the street outside" and who waited 45 minutes for fire fighters to arrive.
Quoted in "Protests continue into first day of G20 summit in Hamburg/Demonstrators set fire to cars and throw rocks at shop windows in Altona district as world leaders meet in nearby Messehalle" (The Guardian).
The photo at the link is not of the wistfully bereft owner of the ex-Saab, but of another woman, an unnamed, youthful, tousle-headed woman whose bare arms are held in the grip of 2 male police officers in heavy riot gear. She's one of the "Welcome to Hell" protesters, and she looks charmingly disheveled and not seriously threatening and therefore overrestrained by the authorities, so let's think about her and not that privileged lady, beset by a masked gang with molotov cocktails. That lady had a Saab and insurance and nostalgia.
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92 comments:
Saab? They did you a favor.
Who are these anti-capitalists in real life? I am very curious. If we random sampled 30 of them, what do they do when not protesting G20 conferences? How do live? Do they have jobs, private sector jobs, children, live off of welfare paid for by capitalists taxes? Maybe they are professional protesters who change clothing and head out to other protests. Just curious.
If they can make a law to ban the Burqa, then they can make a law against face masks used during a crime.
Face masks (clothing or otherwise) should be confiscated and destroyed.
Obviously face masks are designed to thwart camera surveillance.
The Germans, like the Swedes, seem pretty passive. Of course, if they get too aggressive about the Muslims/Leftists, rioting or engaging in criminal activity, they can get thrown in jail for "inciting hate".
Better - in public - to be wistful about that burnt out car.
And that "young lady" -reminds me of the boomers during the Vietnam war protests.
so let's think about her and not that privileged lady
Not sure what to say about her, I don't know her story. What did she do?
The images from the G20 riots stun me. The Polizei are bringing in heavy artillery, armed trucks with water cannons, that we don't see in the USA. Legions of armored cops against legions of rioters, and both sides wear face masks.
Germany had to plan for this long ago, getting those armored trucks built and ready to roll, with water tanks on-board. Europe is not in good shape.
"Who are these anti-capitalists in real life?"
Judging by studies done of Left-wing movements in the past, the vast majority come from comfortable circumstances & the leaders are no doubt lawyers, college professors, high school teachers, work at non-profits, etc.
I doubt they're many plumbers in the crowd.
"The Polizei are bringing in heavy artillery, armed trucks with water cannons, that we don't see in the USA. Legions of armored cops against legions of rioters, and both sides wear face masks."
Yeah, the Germans come prepared. Good planning. That's why they were such good soldiers in both world wars.
"Who are these anti-capitalists in real life?"
Mayor of New York City.
lgv said, "Who are these anti-capitalists in real life? I am very curious."
I share your curiosity. Probably lots of:
* Trust-fund babies
* Young people, <26yo, who haven't figured out life yet
* Marxists
How do live?
Well, based on the photo that Althouse describes, they have clean hair, clear skin, straight teeth, are at a healthy weight, have free time to protest, an exaggerated sense of the importance and correctness of their views, and presumably bear other markers of a comfortable upper middle class existence.
What price can one place on social justice? The ability to "make a difference" in a very public but group setting allowing one to [to a degree] get lost in anonymity (the masks DO help) while still feeling like you have actually put something meaningful On The Line because we Stood up to "the Man" and made a real statement that these capitalistic, materialistic, oppressive regimes will NO LONGER BE TOLERATED!
You know, putting it all on the line with the unstated assurance that the "man" won't actually crack some skulls or shoot anyone (with actual bullets).
A big plus being that one gets to break some glass, smash some stuff, maybe steal a few "souvenirs" (to show the other bros and brag). Least one forget, there is also the strong possibility that making a good showing could result in scoring with one of the "righteous" chicks that take part in "the struggle" (as long as you can get past the not-shaving).
Against all that, what are a few civilian cars? Nothing! Collateral damage! Besides, those middle-class posers likely had it coming.
Professor I hope you and the readers will forgive me for a small tangent from the owner of the destroyed Saab. (Great post by the way!)
We are coming up on the 50th anniversary of the 1967 Detroit riot. The devoutly liberal Detroit Free Press did an story -- a touching story, really -- about a record store and recording studio (Joe's Records on 12th Street near the epicenter of the riot). The story contained these two paragraphs:
My father had been on 12th Street, standing guard in front of his shop with his gun and his “Soul Brother” sign. After the first day or so, the authorities stopped letting business owners guard their shops, and my father returned home defeated. He never shook the feeling that by halting his efforts to protect his store, they had guaranteed its destruction.
Days later, they allowed Daddy to return to a smoldering 12th Street. He took my uncle, my little brother and my cousin — the first look at the damage was deemed a job for men and boys. But the next day, he took me.
http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2017/07/02/marsha-music-detroit-1967-riot/439448001/
The gun, by the way, was a shotgun. By preventing the black shop owner, Joe Von Battle, from protecting his property with a legal firearm, the Detroit Police of 1967 enabled its destruction by rioters.
I expect that the Free Press editors had no idea what their contributor's own story meant. The Free Press editorial board hasn't seen a new gun law/regulation (or a Democrat) that they wouldn't support.
We'll soon be seeing 50th anniversaries of a series of U.S. urban riots. Detroit and Newark in '67. Chicago, Baltimore, Washington D.C. and Cleveland-Glenville in 1968.
Like most Leftists, these "anti-capitalists" don't concerned about the working class, in fact most of them probably hate/despise the working class and petite-bourgeois.
Look, I'm no defender of these protesters but it's a Saab, which introduces reasonable-enough dount to the "Molotov cocktail" theory. There's simply no guarantee it didn't just happen to spontaneously combust at a strange time.
Violence: it defines the Left.
the authorities stopped letting business owners guard their shops, and my father returned home defeated.
They were doing him a favor. The shop is nothing compared to his life.
They would have killed him like a bug, and burned the store down anyway.
That's how a riot works.
Allow me a silly question: What, exactly, is the purpose of the protests?
Are protests still purposeful, or are they simply one of the things progressives do to prove their bona fides?
The photo makes it look as if the woman and the police are all reacting to something in front of them and they need to clasp one another to deal with whatever monstrosity they are seeing.
"the authorities stopped letting business owners guard their shops, and my father returned home defeated."
Another sound reason for the 2A.
They were doing him a favor. The shop is nothing compared to his life.
They would have killed him like a bug, and burned the store down anyway.
That's how a riot works.
O RLY?
"What, exactly, is the purpose of the protests?"
It's an expression of religious belief.
It's usually some true or once-true believing professors/adjuncts/activists, a group of half-understanding students/charges who want to star in their own passion plays, and a few assorted dregs who suddenly have something to do for an afternoon.
Actual working people rarely have time for such things, and, alas 'The People' never materialize to appreciate what these intellectual rock stars and this brilliant revolutionary vanguard are trying to accomplish.
Both women have nostalgia. One is willing to be wistful about a car. The other wants to burn the world.
45 minutes? Was the fire department having to do triage because of the protests? or is that a normal response time; seems an awful long wait in a Developed Country.
"What, exactly, is the purpose of the protests?"
One of their church's sacraments, I believe. Rougly equivalent to Christian confirmation.
Tommy Duncan said...
Allow me a silly question: What, exactly, is the purpose of the protests?
Are protests still purposeful, or are they simply one of the things progressives do to prove their bona fides?
7/7/17, 10:27 AM
That and an excuse to steal stuff, break stuff, and try to get laid...
I knew Rocketeer's link was Koreans in SoCal without even clicking.
If you find these clowns are among the only defenders of liberty in your society, things aren't going well.
How well things are actually going is usually another matter, however. Tough to tell with all this racket.
The cynical part of me wants to simply dismiss all of these protesters as deeply ignorant youths who are completely unaware of their own privilege and what it is they're actually protesting. Are they claiming to be anti-capitalist anarchists? Isn't that a bit oxymoronic? I mean, the term anarchy generally implies anti-statism, that the state is undesirable and unneeded. And capitalism, the free market, seems function best with minimal government intervention. So being a anti-capitalist anarchists is like saying you don't like the free market and you don't like the government? And if you're anti-capitalist, why are you protesting the G20? Most of the countries that make up the G20 are largely socialist who are heavily in favor of greatly regulating and reigning in the free market.
"We'll soon be seeing 50th anniversaries of a series of U.S. urban riots. Detroit and Newark in '67. Chicago, Baltimore, Washington D.C. and Cleveland-Glenville in 1968."
I doubt many people will care - and the MSM will give it limited coverage. Its not part of boomer nostalgia like the Freedom Rides, MLK, Bull Conner, Anti-Vietnam protests, Woodstock, etc.
And we've had a lot of riots in the last 50 years.
y were doing him a favor. The shop is nothing compared to his life.
They would have killed him like a bug, and burned the store down anyway.
That's how a riot works.
The police are here to preserve disorder.
And Chicago cops excell at watching people fall up the stairs.
Is my understanding correct that these protests are occurring in an area somewhat removed from where the G20 meetings are being held? If so, for what purpose?
What, exactly, is the purpose of the protests?
The simple answer, is that capitalists have bought all the government clerks, taken over all the banks, and wiped out the middle class.
With the proletariat class wiped-out, everyone is now a peasant.
The bourgeoisie, who own all the land and means of production, also empower the ruling class. It's a billionaire club. Who wouldn't want to fuck with billionaires and their clerks.
In Marxists terms, the protests are a form of art, where the bourgeoisie must be made to suffer. They are not going to get a free ride.
If you can fuck with their police, burn down their property, and generally riot to make their power and money worthless, then all is fair in the game.
So it goes...
Who is the identified adversary in the minds of the protestors? Seems to be on alot of minds.
1- The State - if so, why not burn Congress. Or Town Public Works. Kidnap a few minor tax collectors. Etc
It can be done. See: History. See: serious people. If not, I think we can surmise your actions are not fundamentally Against the State.
2- Corporations - if so, why not burn the Refinery / Clothing Factory. Kidnap truck drivers. Etc
The problem there is that private companies may respond with lethal force when threatened with lethal force. Tough business, that.
3- All & Any Property Owners - there you go. Random car burning can fit on that list. Its not maybe the most effective means to have your adversary re-consider the merits of having a societal framework based on private ownership of assets, but it is argumentatively consistent. Admittedly, when your tactic is of little strategic value, that means you are conceding it will be a never ending conflict, world without end, amen, but maybe that is never thought about much. Some Idealists dont wish for success. They wish only to show their Idealism.
Until 1000s of anticapitalist protestors start burning cars in the 10,000s / day, at which point, the 10,000,000s of Property Owners may decide to act more decisively and decidedly in their interests. Until then, you get random violence and instagrams of the street fighting man/woman.
More importantly, Rocketeers comment is hilarious
The middle class own everything? Since when?
rcocean said...
"We'll soon be seeing 50th anniversaries of a series of U.S. urban riots. Detroit and Newark in '67. Chicago, Baltimore, Washington D.C. and Cleveland-Glenville in 1968."
I doubt many people will care - and the MSM will give it limited coverage. Its not part of boomer nostalgia like the Freedom Rides, MLK, Bull Conner, Anti-Vietnam protests, Woodstock, etc.
And we've had a lot of riots in the last 50 years.
No, I think the second half of this summer will feature a lot more discussion. Slanted, of course. Your "MSM" does that; we both know that.
Kathryn Bigelow's ("Zero Dark Thirty," "The Hurt Locker") new movie set for national release very soon is "Detroit." A retelling of the riot and the Algiers Motel Incident.
http://www.detroit.movie/?gclid=CIiKyuDD99QCFax_Mgod1cQH6g&gclsrc=ds
The rites for the second trimester since Trump's inauguration came a bit early. People must be really excited if they couldn't wait to have a gay old time.
D said..Who is the identified adversary in the minds of the protestors? Seems to be on alot of minds.
It's a protest.
Limited destruction to show the bourgeoisie you are still viable.
What you are talking about is no longer a protest. That's when the people come in and chop the head off their King and Queen.
That's a whole different level.
By the way, next week is Bastille Day! Get your cake and eat it!
Hate Loves Abortion
What's the carbon footprint of burning a Saab?
Nothing says thoughtful, intellectual discourse like setting cars on fire.
Etienne: Wearing masks at a protest is against the law in Germany. That is why the Hamburg police cut out a section of the protesters and arrested them. The law came about 1981-ish when protestors tried to stop the expansion of the Frankfurt Airport (Startbahn West).
They harmed a Saab? The bastards.
kevino said...Nothing says thoughtful, intellectual discourse like setting cars on fire.
When was the last time you had an intellectual discourse with banker and his sheriff's foreclosing on a neighborhood?
Yea, I thought not...
OpenID Livermoron said...Wearing masks at a protest is against the law in Germany.
Excellent.
The German State, now calling itself the European Union, wanted this G-20 meeting at the heart of Germany; and that is Hamburg. It has been the key German commercial port and seat of a self governing League since Rome first ran its commerce up and down the Elbe River into the North Sea. They were called the Hanseatic League guys, and enforced Trading Blocs using Norway and Sweden as their colony. Sounds like Junker's EU redux. Today it is Airbus Central.
And in 1940, the Hamburg trade center had acquired the most Jews of any city in the Reich. So the Third Reich started up daily train service to the Extermination Camps that ran ontime.
Don't diss Saabs. My wife and I took European delivery of a 16 valve Turbo 900. By the time my older daughter got done running it into the ground, our family put 350,000 plus miles on Kemo Sabe. Loved that car.
Once they control things she will have never owned a car and there would be no nostalgic value to have been lost.
Everything will then be restored to its proper balance.
Etienne: thank you for offerring that perspective, that's fair.
It still seems random, rather than focused. I dont know if it would change or harden my views, because i never had my car destroyed in such a way.
If it was a Saab Sonett then hanging is too good for them. Maybe boiling in oil or burning at the stake.
"When was the last time you had an intellectual discourse with banker and his sheriff's foreclosing on a neighborhood?"
Due to "unforseen circumstances" no doubt.
This is a real Saab story.
I too ran a 900 turbo 300k miles. Great car, especially in the winter Sierra. Otoh my 900S had an uncurable cooling system problem. Just ok otherwise but nothing like the turbo.
Also the hatchback had unbelievable cargo capacity.
>Who are these anti-capitalists in real life?
Better question is where is the money coming from...
Seems related to antifa. Organized. Even paid.
And in the other hand you post the wrong thing online that is Hate Speech" and you have your door kicked in and get arrested.
I am do glad the us has the first amendment. Only worry is if you upset CNN.
"After the first day or so, the authorities stopped letting business owners guard their shops, and my father returned home defeated."
The government works with these thugs to destroy independent people and force everyone to turn to the government. These agitotors and fascists always have consent from the state. If the state didn't want these protests they would not make laws protecting the protesters.
I love my Saab. Sadly, we've begun to shop for its replacement (more precisely, we've begun to think about shopping for its replacement). I love the car but it's almost 20 years old so it's probably time to put it out to pasture.
I've been comparing the U.S. media coverage to the German. The U.S. coverage defaults to the "protesters clash with police," but the German mainstream outlets are not flinching from the violence. The latest headline on Die Welt's website is "New escalation, black block under way, policeman suffers skull fracture." FOCUSOnline, with scary video: "Masked protesters torch vehicles, claim to be peaceful protesters." Frankfurter Allgemeine, "Rioting against G20: When a mob lays waste to a city."
I was at the WTO in Seattle in 1999, and the rioting was not as bad as in Hamburg this week. Still, it was a rare news outlet that covered the violence accurately, without the "on the one hand, on the other hand" approach.
"Also the hatchback had unbelievable cargo capacity."
Yes. That's a bone of contention in our house. I'm pushing for a wagon to replace the Saab hatchback, but my wife hates wagons. But I look at the trunk space of a regular car and despair.
Blogger Etienne said...
D said..Who is the identified adversary in the minds of the protestors? Seems to be on alot of minds.
"It's a protest.
Limited destruction to show the bourgeoisie you are still viable.
What you are talking about is no longer a protest. That's when the people come in and chop the head off their King and Queen.
That's a whole different level.
By the way, next week is Bastille Day! Get your cake and eat it!"
This is the distinction people need to understand. These bullshit little protests are state sponsored and are targeted at the independent middle class specifically. They are specifically designed to beat down and divide the population.
There is no danger to the state from these attacks but there is danger to the people who are not allowed to defend themselves.
Government heads start getting lopped off when the independent middle class gets uppity.
Hundred sixty cops injured 12 arrests. German lefties must assume authorities extend a lot of leeway in "protest" actions water cannon or not.
NB: My only interaction with Saabs has been indirect - three different friends,each of whose Saabs burned (two with seat-heater shorts, one a rolling engine fire). I'm happy for those of you that have had good Saab experiences, but I'm sticking with the Auric Goldfinger rule of threes, and my assumption is that the enemy is the Swedish automotive industry.
Blogger Valentine Smith said...
"Hundred sixty cops injured 12 arrests. German lefties must assume authorities extend a lot of leeway in "protest" actions water cannon or not."
Just like San Jose Sante Fe Detroit mentioned above and every other protest like this the police are under orders to let the leftists shitheads break a bunch of the little people's stuff. How dare they try to build a business and their own life.
She's hot and probably responsible for several male recruits.
Not so prepared. Melania was stuck in her guesthaus by the goons. Next time we bring a company of Marines.
Beats me why any city ever agrees to host one of these things. It's almost as bad as having an Olympics.
There's a tiresome Neunundneunzig Luftballons vibe to the protests.
Someone throwing a Molotov cocktail isn't a protester: they're a combatant.
I remember watching some recent-ish riot footage (might have been in the Ukraine) of riot cops (who I think were on the side of the bad guys) getting hit with Molotov cocktails...I was impressed that they didn't immediately open fire at the crowd. I would not have blamed them, and I would not vote to convict were I ever on a jury at a trial of a person who used gunfire or other deadly force in response to having molotov cocktails thrown at them.
The moment you demonstrate you're willing, able, and actively trying to burn me to death I will have no regrets about opening up at you and anyone unlucky enough to be near you.
I knew Rocketeer's link was Koreans in SoCal without even clicking.
Every city should have a brigade of Emergency Rooftop Koreans.
The moment you demonstrate you're willing, able, and actively trying to burn me to death I will have no regrets about opening up at you and anyone unlucky enough to be near you.
I'm with you. There seems to be some confusion on the left regarding the difference between "peaceful protest" and "riot". It's understandable, though, since they've been allowed to riot without facing the usual consequences.
I wonder how much punishment the DC inauguration rioters will get. The article I read said hundreds were "facing" 80 years. I'd be surprised if more than a handful (if any) go to jail at all.
Carter Wood said...I've been comparing the U.S. media coverage to the German. The U.S. coverage defaults to the "protesters clash with police," but the German mainstream outlets are not flinching from the violence. The latest headline on Die Welt's website is "New escalation, black block under way, policeman suffers skull fracture." FOCUSOnline, with scary video: "Masked protesters torch vehicles, claim to be peaceful protesters." Frankfurter Allgemeine, "Rioting against G20: When a mob lays waste to a city."
So..."mostly peaceful," then.
"Mostly peaceful" is how DeBlasio is justifying his marching with the protestors.
--Vance
Change of photos over at the Grauniad: the dishy thug is gone.
I am not sure if I would carry insurance on a 29 yo car. She has probably paid for it three times over in that time.
The moment you demonstrate you're willing, able, and actively trying to burn me to death I will have no regrets about opening up at you and anyone unlucky enough to be near you.
I once rented a large house in the Olympic peninsula area (Washington state). It sat in the middle of a roughly 20 acre lot, in semi-rural horse / livestock country, not too far from Olympic National Park.
There was a sign next to the entry gate, stating "No hunting or shooting allowed. Gunshots directed toward the house may be responded to by counterfire, without further warning."
No one in a fairly large party, which included most parts of the political & age spectrum, voiced any objections to the owner's policy.
I loved my SAAB 900 T.
BUT.
It was an early-90s model, without post-shutdown cooling on the turbo. This meant that you had to be regular about letting it cool at idle for 20-60 seconds, otherwise the lube oil might cook in the bearings.
But if you followed the rules (anyway, basically the same as a turbo aircraft engine), they gave good service. I got twice the normal mileage out of the turbos, and only replaced the original unit (at 150K miles) out of caution.
And then...
Backing out of the driveway one morning, a weld broke on the right front lower suspension, and the wheel jammed in the well. I decided that was the end - imagine having that happen at speed? (Also, this was the second time I'd had a catastrophic right-front-wheel failure. The first time was in the 70s when the RF wheel on a '49 MG-TC fell completely off the car, just as I got home from an ordinary highway drive. Sigh. The post-mortem found a machining scratch on the axle assembly, which had stress-fatigued after 24 years of service.)
Dickhead from high school had the vanity plate SNAAB. Fitting.
The correct response to a masked rioter (protest is speech, not Molotovs) is the use of lethal force, cremation without any effort to identify the corpse, and dumping of the ashes without ceremony at sea. Make war on society anonymously? Die and be disposed of anonymously.
Throwing firebombs in Hamburg is the woke equivalent of holding a Nazi march in Skokie.
She's one of the "Welcome to Hell" protesters, and she looks charmingly disheveled and not seriously threatening and therefore over-restrained by the authorities, so let's think about her and not that privileged lady, beset by a masked gang with Molotov cocktails.
Quaestor gave that thought all the time it deserved. Unfortunately, his stopwatch app does not readout in microseconds.
Perhaps Bill De Balsio, an encourager of such barbarity, should be made to compensate that white-privileged German mother with another elderly SAAB. Quaestor suggests a nice '72 Sonnet III.
The views of the anarchists are incoherent. They are mad at the world that life is unfair. They don't want to cure inequality--they want to be the rich. They don't want less government--they want to be in charge. Look at the demands at Occupy Wall Street--lots of demands for free stuff. They don't like the unfairness of life that it is so hard and they don't get rewarded enough and they have to work and stuff. They don't want to have to work hard like the investment bankers do to get ahead. The Occupy people were students and hipsters with lots of free time and little ambition who still want an Iphone and laptop. It isn't FAAAIIIIRRR!!
Oh and they think they are so clever that they have discovered that governments are corrupt and stuff, as if it would all be different if THEY were in charge since they are so virtuous and stuff.
Next time we bring a company of Marines.
A platoon is plenty.
Sorry, lady. The "protesters" only like vintage socialism. Everything else must be destroyed.
Part of the problem is the protesters expect no serious punishment from the authorities for their antics. The threat of a swift guillotine slice to the neck is much more likely to be effective than almost anything short of a victim who fights back - and ultimately why the return of much harsher justice is likely in the cards eventually as a reaction to these stunts.
How come there's never a suicide bomber when you need one?
I have a brace of classic SAABs, a '91 900 and an '88 900S. My wife has had saintly patience with Something's Almost Always Broken since our first 900, an '86; and last month finally made me buy her a much newer Volvo station wagon: what the Euros call an "executive car". Arrrgghh! So now I have to get rid of one of the two 900s: each of which have their numerous, but differing virtues and defects. I keep thinking of Meryl Streep in Sophie's Choice (of course Styron's book was better). I guess I'll post an online ad showing them both and let the SS physician/psychopath at the "selections" stand take the decision out of my hands. (In the end, both of her children were gassed.)
One of the sidebars on the linked story mentions that the crackpot who was denied his Grand Canyon rocks now has permission.
Bleh.
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