The most uncalled-for word in that headline is "once." I can't believe the dean — her name is June Chu — doesn't continually "champion cultural sensitivity." That's built into her job and no trouble to do. It would be trouble not to do. What dean at an elite — or nonelite — institution of higher education would renounce cultural sensitivity? It would take a very strangely bold dean to say: Hey, snowflakes, how about some old-school insensitivity for a change?*
But on her own, outside of work, Chu does some social media, and she doesn't talk like a dean, she talks like a person on social media. She's cheeky and tweaky. It's like Trump on Twitter.
Now, another way to look at this is that Chu felt empowered by her own status as a member of a minority group. Her non-PC language came in the context of an Asian restaurant she thinks is bad:
“If you are white trash, this is the perfect night out for you!” Chu wrote in a review about a Japanese restaurant, which she said lacked authenticity but was perfect for “those low class folks who believe this is a real night out.”She was comically wielding a little Asian privilege. Not that she defended herself that way. She apologized and deleted her Yelp account.
“Side note: employees are Chinese, not Japanese,” added Chu, who identifies in one review as Chinese American. In another restaurant review she said, “I guess if you were a white person who has no clue what mochi is, this would be fine for you.”
"My remarks were wrong. There are no two ways about it."I disagree. I see at least 2 ways, but there aren't 2 ways about which way is the easiest way.
__________________
* Imagine saying something like "I wonder, and I am not trying to be provocative: Is there no room anymore for a child or young person to be a little bit obnoxious, a little bit inappropriate or provocative or, yes, offensive?”
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141 comments:
Considering the group she referred to, my guess is that the price she'll pay for this will be zero.
Funny how you should bring up "Once"..
Maybe Once Written has been inadvertently doxxed? Naah, there are millions of bigots like her.
Cultural sensitivity never has to apply to white people. Only "people of color". Because people of color can't be culturally insensitive because of a power differential. Or something.
It seems she came across a "teachable moment."
These terms don't really offend me, but the cluelessness about the fact that her own ideology is founded entirely on will to power, rather than any kind of intellectual framework based on an elevated morality is endlessly amusing.
When the cultured elite of the Country try to be Edgy.
Does it ever work? No.
It's hilarious that this all started because she bragged about becoming a Yelp Elite member.
Is there a single commenter here who is surprised at this?
This is more telling about Chinese attitudes than elite attitudes.
What dean at an elite — or nonelite — institution of higher education would renounce cultural sensitivity?
Or practice it in the world outside of their own little kingdom.... as defined in their own little kingdom...
This is more telling about Chinese attitudes than elite attitudes.
Of course. Her position at Yale does not entitle her to a membership in "the elite" and we all know how punctilious the 'elite' have been in respecting our white underclass and their concerns and economic interests!
The challenge here is not to fall into the PC trap.
We all know the PC police are used as a weapon by the Left to nail their opponents (mostly conservative males).
So, when Asian Yale Dean yaps about "White Trash" the temptation is to claim turnabout is fair game and try to get a scalp.
But this is a mistake. It would be a better world if she were allowed to make such attempts at humor (even if unfunny) as long as I was allowed to, say, make fun of Asian drivers.
You've given us something to Chu on.
Is there a single commenter here who is surprised at this?
I think ARM's comment of "what can you expect from somebody who's Chinese" comes closest.
Lying cowardly response from someone who apparently knows nothing about Chinese attitudes towards poor and rural whites.
Just be consistent - when a Caucasian dean makes an inappropriate comment about Hispanics or blacks, I expect a similar response.
If your restaurant review consists only of insulting the type of people you imagine would enjoy the place, why are you bothering to write a restaurant review in the first place?
Lying cowardly response from someone who apparently knows nothing about Chinese attitudes towards poor and rural whites.
Not sure how it's a "lie," it's just a plausible paraphrase. I don't get the "cowardly," but I am sure you have some elite definition of the word that we deplorables are not in on, and defending it by repeating it is pretty classic. "It's not bigoted because it's true!" Do you really want to open that can of worms?
It is good that you conceded that you lied but otherwise you are a complete moron spouting off about something of which you apparently know nothing.
Damn Chink. I bet she knows nothing about good southern Barbeque. But she probably loves to eat rotted eggs dipped in super hot mustard, prepared by her Korean slaves.
Chinese attitudes are complex.
Its a weird superiority-inferiority complex.
Overseas Chinese in a foreign milieu often do have a superiority thing going vs the local volk, whom they expect to outperform. In the US this can be seen vs blacks and hispanics, and often against whites.
They are also afraid of them, physically.
On the other hand they have a deep respect and deference to the class on top. These are role models, and they strive for acceptance, taking their cultural traits. In Asia they change their names and adopt the elite language. I have known several Spanish-speaking Chinese families for instance, as that was the local mark of the upper class.
The Chinese themselves havent got a class or caste structure. Their intra-Chinese status is entirely a matter of position and wealth, with no deference to ancestry. The noveau-riche are no worse regarded socially than the old rich.
It is good that you conceded that you lied but otherwise you are a complete moron
Not sure I conceded that I "lied," a paraphrase is not a lie, I just expressed the truth about what you said. By your own definitions and standards, you just lied about me, I'm sure you feel the same way. I will concede that one of us is a "complete moron." My guess, were I to take one, would be that it is the one who protests too much and quickly resorts to the ad hominem, but I am not going to guess.
Interesting slant on this.
Virtually Unknown said...
I just expressed the truth about what you said.
Another lie. You are a fool, pathetically twisting what I said in such a transparent manner that you make your foolishness obvious to everyone.
Is it too late for this generation to grow up?
I always find the cultural appropriation stuff interesting. Our host reminds us of Erika Christakis, who resigned after suggesting that Halloween costumes might be an acceptable way to be a bit naughty. Take a full "Red Indian" costume, for example, eagle feathers and all. Showing honour to great warriors, with the implication that they were too noble to farm, save for retirement,etc.? Or a celebration of the fact that the wearer (presumably) identifies with the winners of the relevant wars, rather than the losers, and is therefore gloating in a cruel way?
June Chu, on the other hand, enjoys celebrating authentic multicultural restaurants, and putting down anyone, especially a white person, who doesn't "get it." Is there more of an expectation of white people than of others that they keep up to date on all the restaurants of the world? Or is this supposed to correct for past injustice: you think our cuisine is bad, or you'll only eat it if it's Westernized; there is greatness here that your arrogance (your stupid white arrogance) prevents you from experiencing. "There is no real excuse for you not to know about this." I believe the progressive view is that "white trash" is a racist expression, implying that bad behaviour which is typical for non-whites is non-typical for whites. Again, at least a hint that whites are somehow held to a higher standard--possibly because they have been rich, privileged, on top, had access to education, etc.
The problem is extreme lack of empathy. She simply can't relate to anyone not as educated as herself.
Education does not lead to empathy. I believe empathy is a great virtue but this elite seems to not. Sad.
Free speech. She is free to preach one thing publicly and act another way privately. And we are free to talk about what a hypocrite she is. At least, I lean toward hypocrite when evaluating her behavior. Cultural sensitivity is a concept that in application is used as a pretext to shut down speech others don't like. I suppose one can be sensitive and still brutally rude in action, but it kind of undermines the whole facade of PC culture to see the preachers of PC caught with their morals down.
@ARM Give it up. You opened the door and VU walked through it with a translation. If you are going to make a comment about which you are sensitive - or knowledgeable - it would help to expand on it in your original to prevent misunderstanding. Whether it says more about Chinese than elites is not clear to us who just take a quick look at Chu's comments and note the irony of an apparent elite calling someone "white trash" while the same class lectures us about our improper approach to language. Similar carelessness cost the Wicked Witch of the West an election.
No, its not that complex at all. The Chinese lady is a social striver and she has taken on the language and attitudes of the haut-bourgeois milieu in which she is seeking success. She talks and thinks that way because her peer group, or the peer group to which she aspires, talk and think that way.
This acceptance-seeking is normal for overseas Chinese.
The form it takes varies with the milieu and period. Out in my neck of the woods the Chinese who aspired to the local upper class became devout Catholics, spoke Spanish, sent their daughters to convent schools, and learned delicate manners.
Hence Jaime Cardinal Sin and Corazon Cojuangco.
Here in the US they learn to despise the the white volk, the enemies of their peers.
My sympathies, after reading this, run to the restaurant owners. I often use Yelp when traveling or scheduling business dinners. I would be very put-off by such a racist rant on Yelp and wonder if it doesn't violate some EULA for her to salt her reviews with racism.
So what recourse does the restaurateur have? I hope there is a way to appeal to Yelp and remove offensive language from reviews. (Yes I am admitting I'm too lazy to research that. I just drop in here during the course of a busy work day.)
VU... apophasis... ARM
Nice work, guys!
khesanh0802 said..
with a translation
It was a transparent lie. What I said was quite straightforward, it did not require any translation. It was expanded upon adequately by buwaya. A truly pathetic attempt to twist what I said is a lie, by a fool. You do yourself no favors defending this fool.
AReasonableMan said...
"You are a fool, pathetically twisting what I said in such a transparent manner that you make your foolishness obvious to everyone."
Yeah, I know what you mean. About those fools. With their pathetic twisting, and all.
"It would be a better world if she were allowed to make such attempts at humor (even if unfunny) as long as I was allowed to, say, make fun of Asian drivers. "
A better world, yes, but in the world we live in, the best strategy is to make the bastard live up to her rules she willingly imposes on others. Then laugh at her for being a schmuck.
Don't forget that she also represents Yale, which has fallen in esteem from being a top-notch institution to being a possibly decent education institution buried under a thick rancid layer of double-speaking social justice warriorism and rent-seeking budding aristos.
So, what does a "Dean" do, anyway? There are a lot of them around, but you seldom hear of them doing anything. Once in a while they join a Social Justice witch-burning, to add a little tone to the proceedings. I guess I've just been giving them a pass all these years. Is there any actual work associated with the position?
It's strange the way Millies expect food to be exciting, different and real while conversation is required to be bland and tasteless. In the Fifties it was the other way.
In my area, at least, most Japanese restaurants are run by Chinese people -- there are more people who want to eat sushi than there are Japanese people who wish to own a restaurant. Chinese immigrants are happy to supply the gap, especially because sushi has a higher profit margin than Chinese food. It doesn't necessarily mean it isn't prepared authentically or that it isn't good! I do find it funny, though, to go out with my in-laws to a Japanese restaurant, and they have a nice conversation with the proprietor in Cantonese.
“But this is a mistake. It would be a better world if she were allowed to make such attempts at humor (even if unfunny) as long as I was allowed to, say, make fun of Asian drivers.”
I used to think that too. However, in reality you will not be permitted to make fun of Asian drivers. So the best thing to do now is to turn the left’s PC game against them. The way the game has been played up until now is that conservatives are expected to grovel and resign their jobs if they insult any of the Lefts pet minorities but the Left can insult those they consider unpersons and our response is “well, it’s a free country.” How’s that working out? As it resulted in more tolerance of conservative speech? As Alinsky said, hold them to their own rules.
"She was comically wielding a little Asian privilege."
Looking at the rather inoffensive quotes, it seems as if she was just riffing on the "cultural appropriation" nonsense. Her issue seems to be that the restaurants are inauthentic, and she suspects a lot of white people are too white to recognize and be repelled by that inauthenticity.
She's not wrong, either. I'd give her a pass, if it weren't for that "Dean" thing. In my bones, I know she's a God-damned parasite, and I'm paying taxes so she can lead a comfortable and destructive existence.
A toast, to The Universities; Burn 'em down, salt the Earth!
exiledonmainstreet said...
"I used to think that too. However, in reality you will not be permitted to make fun of Asian drivers. So the best thing to do now is to turn the left’s PC game against them."
I understand the impulse, but I reject the strategy. The truth is, we don't believe the nonsense they claim to believe, and they don't either. But while the young idiots they lead think this is all about making the trannies feel better or whatever, the leaders know that it is about power. You aren't really in their power until they can make you affirm what you know is false. And for that purpose, victims from their own camp are just as useful as those from outside. The point is not the nature of the offense, the point is the severed head on the pole in the public square.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
What's the deal with Asian drivers? Never heard of that ...
buwaya said...
The Chinese lady is a social striver and she has taken on the language and attitudes of the haut-bourgeois milieu in which she is seeking success. She talks and thinks that way because her peer group, or the peer group to which she aspires, talk and think that way.
This acceptance-seeking is normal for overseas Chinese.
Here in the US they learn to despise the the white volk, the enemies of their peers.
If this were the full explanation then mainland Chinese would never express these attitudes. Would you like to take a bet on that, buwaya?
Millies are Millennials. Flutter your fingers if you disagree.
I need to know how Titus and Once Written feel about this to know for sure if bigotry is acceptable. As a hillbilly how could I know things on my own?
Yale restricts Asian entry.
If anybody thinks Yale cares about its own bigotry, they are wrong. They are wrong in the sort of way that requires willful ignorance and massive stupidity.
"She was comically wielding a little Asian privilege."
Why is it comical, and what does it mean her Asian privilege is "little?"
The Chinese have 4000 years of culture behind them. On the other hand they've spent the last 65 years destroying all traces of that culture and substituting in its place an ersatz Americanism. Which is carefully like America except for looking down on all other cultures except the Chinese. Because the Chinese have 4000 years of culture behind them.
“If you are white trash, this is the perfect night out for you!” Chu wrote in a review about a Japanese restaurant, which she said lacked authenticity but was perfect for “those low class folks who believe this is a real night out.”
Such contempt for people at the lower end of the income scale.
People who save their money for one night out and she has to shit all over them.
I suppose they would be redeemed in her eyes if they paid with Food Stamps.
Then they'd be righteous "victims," albeit the wrong color victim for her.
It's weird because while we talk about "Asians" and "White People", Chinese are not Japanese. Why would we assume white people know less about mochi than, say black people or chinese people?
Mochi isn't asian, it's Japanese.
Would we assume a scandanvian knows about poutine because he's white?
“I guess if you were a white person who has no clue what mochi is, this would be fine for you.”
Two clueless white-trash people who'd been to interior China for a while said the food usually tasted stale and musty, because it was. And one 'em got a gigantic weeping sore on his neck that took forever to heal.
Jason said...
Interesting slant on this.
I see a chink in her logic.
Supreme Court will hear ‘Slants’ trademark case, which is directly relevant to the Redskins controversy
exiledonmainstreet: I used to think that too. However, in reality you will not be permitted to make fun of Asian drivers. So the best thing to do now is to turn the left’s PC game against them. The way the game has been played up until now is that conservatives are expected to grovel and resign their jobs if they insult any of the Lefts pet minorities but the Left can insult those they consider unpersons and our response is “well, it’s a free country.” How’s that working out? As it resulted in more tolerance of conservative speech? As Alinsky said, hold them to their own rules.
So how's turnabout working out? Did Chu get sacked? No. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the left is generally so ineffectual that there's even shorthand for dismissing it - DR^2. ("Dems are the Real Racists". Nobody cares, least of all the Dems.) And I'm not seeing myself going into hysterical leftist witch-hunt mode any time soon. They have the advantage of having all the mentally unbalanced, resentment-filled witch-hunting and witch-burning temperaments on their side.
So, turnabout doesn't work, and too-public realtalk can get you sacked and unpersoned. So, what to do?
I dunno, but a good start would be for the people who can afford to take the hit to stop apologizing and groveling.
And at least IRL, in non-work, non-social media venues, people talk with as much respect about people like Chu as she talks about "white trash" - their obnoxiousness, their base social-climbing conformism, their vulgarity, and yes, their terrible driving. (Even oh-so-correct upper-middle-class NoVa denizens complain about "DWO" problems. Funny how people get so "racist" when it's their money and property on the line.) So it's out there, festering.
Where it ends, I do not know.
I'm Chinese, and I went to an Ivy League School. Her comments are quintessentially Ivy, but not really characteristic of Chinese people, who aren't customarily rude in public.
ARM was caught out in a little racism of his own, perfectly translated by the other commenters, and that why's he so furious. He should stop digging now.
"I see at least 2 ways, but there aren't 2 ways about which way is the easiest way."
Yup.
Mediagirl said...
ARM was caught out in a little racism of his own
I wrote: 'This is more telling about Chinese attitudes than elite attitudes.'. This has been my observation. It is not even controversial much less racist.
If you really are Chinese born then you know this to be true. The attitudes evinced in these quotes are more typical of Chinese than of whites, elite or otherwise.
FullMoon said...
How do you feel about poor or rural people, in general? Never mind, we already know.
No you do not, so this is a deliberate lie. You in fact know essentially nothing about my background.
Over a billion Chinese so I imagine there is more than one attitude they hold. Why does ARM think they share just the one?
Racism much?
Jupiter: Her issue seems to be that the restaurants are inauthentic, and she suspects a lot of white people are too white to recognize and be repelled by that inauthenticity.
There are few things in this world more vulgar and pretentious than the whole "food authenticity" thing. Recipes and "food culture" get exported, imported, and inevitably adapt themselves to the availability of ingredients and the tastes of the locals.
You think a dish tastes good, or you don't. Food is well or badly prepared. "Authenticity" matters only if you've got a hankering for the taste of a dish the way it's prepared back where it originated. (Or, more likely, the way it's prepared in one of the stops along the path of its many transformations through time.) I want to eat "authentic" food only because I like it better than the domestic versions with the same name, not because its "authenticity" makes it ipso facto better food. Food can be "authentic" and really nasty.
And I doubt very many "white people" don't know that Chinese food in America is American, not Chinese, cuisine. Same for any other ethnic or national cuisine that washed up on our shores and began evolving in a new direction.
There are of course restaurants here that serve more "authentic" Chinese cuisine, and that's the sort of thing you'll like, if you like that sort of thing. There is no moral dimension to the preference, though.
FullMoon said...
You know some arrogant Chinese and extrapolate that to the entire race
You know some arrogant 'elitists' and extrapolate that to the entire group.
@ ARM
You are in good company. Once Written and Titus are also bigots.
EDH said: "Such contempt for people at the lower end of the income scale.
People who save their money for one night out and she has to shit all over them.
I suppose they would be redeemed in her eyes if they paid with Food Stamps.
Then they'd be righteous "victims," albeit the wrong color victim for her."
It’s funny because in my experience blacks generally are not very receptive to “exotic” cuisines. I once worked in an office with middle class, college educated blacks and they were leery of even Cantonese food, which has not been considered “exotic” by white Americans for quite a while now. I’d suggest going out for Thai or Indian food and they reacted with distaste. “I don’t wanna eat that weird shit!” When we went out to eat, it was usually to steak places – and they ate a lot of fast food, despite the fact that there were better options for lunch in the neighborhood.
I went to an Ethiopian restaurant here about 6 months ago and all the patrons were white. There’s a funny clip of American blacks trying African dishes on You Tube. They say things like “this tastes like a dog’s ass.”
Birkel said...
Over a billion Chinese so I imagine there is more than one attitude they hold. Why does ARM think they share just the one?
Did not argue this. Another lie. In your over-eagerness to turn the PC tables you make a fool of yourself. Sad!
"I dunno, but a good start would be for the people who can afford to take the hit to stop apologizing and groveling."
I think that perhaps this will start to happen now that people get canned even after the apology and groveling. If you're going to lose your job or get labeled with the Scarlet "R" no matter what, why not just say, "F you, I'm not sorry?"
Isn't this Chinese person engaging in cultural appropriation by presuming to judge a Japanese restaurant?
@ ARM
So you believe Chinese people have many attitudes? Is that your position? I asked. If you now take the position there are many attitudes held by a billion people then great! We have reached an accord.
Why does her Chinese heritage matter to you? What assumptions are you making based on that? And aren't such assumptions evidence of bigotry?
ARM is being especially reasonable this morning.
"“If you are white trash, this is the perfect night out for you!”"
What if you are black trash, brown trash or yellow trash? Would it be a perfect night then?
Mind you, if she dared to use any of those terms, she would be fired in a microsecond.
@ARM I guess that my question following your first comment ("This is more telling about Chinese attitudes than elite attitudes.") is : How so? I really have no idea what you meant by that first short-hand comment. I am not familiar at all with Chinese attitudes, though I am somewhat familiar with the ideas of our "elite" academics. I would have appreciated a little expansion on your comment. Without it you opened yourself to all kinds of mis-interpretation- obviously.
If I were not familiar with your commenting style it would have been very easy for me to think that your comment was a bit slanderous if not racist. As it was I assumed you had more to say, but since you didn't say it, I gave you the benefit of the doubt thinking you probably knew more than I and that you had facts/knowledge to back your judgmental statement. Others, as is their right, took a different approach. I did not defend anyone. I merely tried to point out to you that by using a condensed statement you opened yourself to a response you did not like.
"This is more telling about Chinese attitudes than elite attitudes."
But ARM, be very careful with these claims. Chinese are not very fond of American blacks or hispanics either. But you don't see the Asian Deans talking about black trash or hispanic scum. Why is that? It's easy - this Dean learned from the best, that whites are horrible people, and it's okay to verbally abuse them, while it's not okay to do that to blacks and hispanics.
So yes, it is about the attitude of the liberal elite, nothing to do with Chinese folks. And I imagine you will see that - she won't be fired for her racist language. Why? Cause the elites are racist against whites.
FullMoon said...
does not qualify you to denigrate the entire Chinese race as looking down on poor and rural whites.
Did not do this. Another lie. I know Chinese who would be appalled by these attitudes just as I know many 'elitists' who would be appalled by these attitudes.
These pathetic attempts to turn the PC tables on me aren't going to get you very far. I am happy to acknowledge that I have racist attitudes, just like everyone else. I am less racist than Michael K but more racist than a perfect being. For instance, I happen to be particularly favorably disposed toward the Chinese as a group because the ones I know are very tough competitors who I respect both for their talent and their incredible work ethic.
"I wonder, and I am not trying to be provocative: Is there no room anymore for a child or young person to be a little bit obnoxious, a little bit inappropriate or provocative or, yes, offensive?”
Sure...as long as they are attacking something or someone on the right or conservative.
ARM: "just as I know many 'elitists' who would be appalled by these attitudes. "
Can you point to the top university brass, particularly in the "diversity department", who are openly "appalled" by the open discrimination in university admissions towards whites and Asians?
Please provide the links to their statements. Go ahead, prove it.
Overseas Chinese are the people in question here, not Chinese in China. Move one from China to Indonesia or the US and circumstances change, as do many attitudes born from imperatives. That is also a Chinese trait.
It used to be, in China, as most other places, that one was treated very well if of apparently high status. Out in Asia it has always been the case that white persons had inherent high status. This is still true in most cases. Whether that is still so in China I dont know.
Our host mispelled "the usual diversity pap". It's correctly spelled, "the usual diversity crapola".
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
does not qualify you to denigrate the entire Chinese race as looking down on poor and rural whites.
Did not do this. Another lie. I know Chinese who would be appalled by these attitudes......
Ahhh! Your attitude has evolved from "Chinese attitudes towards poor and rural whites." to acknowledging that Chinese are of varied opinions, and that race actually has nothing to do with it.. Congratulations.
Hyphenated American said...
Can you point to the top university brass, particularly in the "diversity department", who are openly "appalled" by the open discrimination in university admissions towards whites and Asians?
Dunno if "vice president for research and graduate studies" counts as "top brass", but Steve Hsu has often criticized university racism, e.g.
Birkel: Why does her Chinese heritage matter to you? What assumptions are you making based on that? And aren't such assumptions evidence of bigotry?
Or experience and observation? People don't pull stereotypes out of their butts. If you work or live among a large enough number of people of group X for a period of time, do you really not come up with generalized observations, good or bad, about their behavior?
I sure do. All normal people do. It's just that when you say something like, "Lol, he's soooo German (or English, or Italian); that's such a German (or English, or Italian) thing to do", people usually nod along. It's only when the group in question isn't white, and the characteristic is negative, that people start droning on about "Oh, do you know all X million Y, bigot?"
I have no idea what rural Chinese think about poor American whites. (I suspect they don't think about them at all.) I don't know what percentage of non-rural, non-poor Chinese or people of Chinese-descent share the arrogant attitudes attributed to them. Some of them certainly do, and the question is, does the stereotype have predictive value? If so, then it's a....stereotype. The bigotry of the person holding it is irrelevant.
And anyway, ARM is a lefty, ain't he? So, he doesn't care if you call him a bigot. Geez, how many times does it have to be pointed out that "Dems are the real racists!" is a damp squib before people stop wasting time with it?
FullMoon said...
race actually has nothing to do with it
Never said it did. Another lie.
I need some help here... If there are Chinese people working in a Japanese restaurant, who is guilty of cultural appropriation? Or are they both guilty somehow? I want to be able to give the right answer when I get to the reeducation camp.
Now, off to see all the gay black people in 'Hamilton'...
Chu seems to be an over-degreed, mal-educated person who should not be in a position of responsibility.
Angel-Dyne said...
he doesn't care if you call him a bigot.
I really don't. But don't let that stop anyone.
@ Angel-Dyne
I know ARM doesn't care about his own bigotry. Leftists have a lot of their emotional self worth tied up in being better than the rest of us. No way they give that up.
I don't care about ARM and his casual bigotry. Neither do you.
She's prejudiced by [class] diversity.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
race actually has nothing to do with it
Never said it did. Another lie.
5/17/17, 11:09 AM
No need to point out that your statement is a lie. It is right there to see.
You said "Chinese attitudes towards poor and rural whites."
Your obvious lie is that you did not say it.
buwaya said...
Overseas Chinese are the people in question here, not Chinese in China.
So you are ducking my bet?
Birkel: I don't care about ARM and his casual bigotry. Neither do you.
I guess this makes some kind of sense, if you add a flounce and a pout.
Blogger AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
Your obvious lie is that you did not say it.
If you were a reasonable person you would recognize that this issue is ambiguous. In fact, I view most bigoted attitudes as culturally based, albeit having some basis in an intrinsic 'fear of the other'. Humans, however, have an unusually flexible definition of 'the other'. Animals generally can't move beyond their kin and litter mates. Humans have somehow learnt to accept vast swathes of humanity as 'one of them'. Obviously many people here view liberal 'elitists' as the 'other' and are therefore strongly prejudiced against them. As a moderate I do not share this prejudice.
5/17/17, 11:31 AM
Apology accepted on behalf of Chinese race..
FullMoon said...
Your obvious lie is that you did not say it.
If you were a reasonable person you would recognize that this issue is ambiguous. I view most bigoted attitudes as culturally based, albeit having some basis in an intrinsic 'fear of the other'. Humans, however, have an unusually flexible definition of 'the other'. Animals generally can't move beyond their kin and litter mates. Humans have somehow learnt to accept vast swathes of humanity as 'one of them'.
But few or none of us accept everyone as 'one of them'. For instance, many people here view liberal 'elitists' as the 'other' and are therefore strongly prejudiced against them. One fair criticism of the more strident opponents of racism is their failure to recognize it as a universal problem rather than a problem just of white 'elites'.
FullMoon said...
Apology accepted on behalf of Chinese race.
There was no apology. This woman's statements are indefensible at best and arguably straight up racist.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
Apology accepted on behalf of Chinese race.
There was no apology. This woman's statements are indefensible at best and arguably straight up racist.
5/17/17, 11:44 AM
My mistake. I thought you were apologizing for your original racist statement regarding the Chinese.
seriously, if a job title has the word "diversity" in it, it should be eliminated immediately. As used, "Diversity" stands for nothing more than racial, sexual and religious hatred.
"The only way out for the defendant is to submit a self-criticism." Ryszard Legutko, The Demon in Democracy, p. 129.
FullMoon said...
I thought you were apologizing for your original racist statement regarding the Chinese.
It was not racist, it was a reframing. June Chu's statement's are more straightforwardly read as racism rather than elitism. buwaya is making a ridiculous argument that Chu is a victim here, vacuously aping her supposed 'elite' social group. This argument is undone by the fact that it was her social peers who objected to her statements. If her views were broadly held within her social group then we would never have heard of her. Clearly some other explanation is required.
But you keep humping the idea that I am being a racist here, moron.
I always thought that the expression "white trash" was deeply racist not only to whites but also to blacks. For me "white" in this expression is used as a modifier for "trash" with everybody in the know understanding, to which group this a priori applies.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
I thought you were apologizing for your original racist statement regarding the Chinese.
It was not racist, it was a reframing. June Chu's statement's are more straightforwardly read as racism rather than elitism. buwaya is making a ridiculous argument that Chu is a victim here, vacuously aping her supposed 'elite' social group. This argument is undone by the fact that it was her social peers who objected to her statements. If her views were broadly held within her social group then we would never have heard of her. Clearly some other explanation is required.
But you keep humping the idea that I am being a racist here, moron.
5/17/17, 12:45 PM
Umm, it was you, not Chu, who posted the racist comment "Chinese attitudes towards poor and rural whites." (As if you know any thing whatsoever about Chinese attitudes), imbecile
FullMoon said...
it was you, not Chu, who posted the racist comment
Now you are lying. Chu is the topic of discussion because of her racist postings. I merely pointed this out. You seem pathetically incapable of grasping this very simple concept.
You aren't really in their power until they can make you affirm what you know is false. And for that purpose, victims from their own camp are just as useful as those from outside. The point is not the nature of the offense, the point is the severed head on the pole in the public square.
Well said, Jupiter. It's like trolls who keep on trolling as long as they keep getting bites. I choose to ignore trolls, the MSM and Progspeak.
I find myself amused, in a dark sort of way, by ARM's belief in corruption of blood.
Blogger AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
it was you, not Chu, who posted the racist comment
Now you are lying. Chu is the topic of discussion because of her racist postings. I merely pointed this out. You seem pathetically incapable of grasping this very simple concept.
5/17/17, 1:42 PM
Nope, you are the topic of our discussion.Embrace your racism, coward.
JNussbaum: I always thought that the expression "white trash" was deeply racist not only to whites but also to blacks. For me "white" in this expression is used as a modifier for "trash" with everybody in the know understanding, to which group this a priori applies.
That's a real stretch.
It's wasn't "racist to whites" in its native environment, either. That's a new development. Let's just call it a maladroit "cultural appropriation" from Southern blacks and whites.
It didn't mean "acting like a black"; respectable people both white and black used the slur. Since people in its original milieu did not hesitate to call trashy blacks "niggers", there was no need for any winky-winky "you know what I mean and I know you do". It's not as if the phrase "white nigger" wasn't extant, if that's what someone wanted to say.
Here's the usage guide to the South of my youth:
"white trash": What it says on the can. There was "rich white trash" as well as "poor white trash".
"nigger": Used by asshole whites to refer to all blacks. Used by respectable whites and respectable blacks for trashy blacks. Non-asshole older whites could still be herd referring to blacks in general as "niggers", but this was very rare even in my childhood (1960s), and calling blacks "niggers" had become a marker of white trash-itude, unless the speaker was really old.
As is typical with all developments in polite usage, women banished "nigger" in any form from their lexicon faster than men. Unlike "nigger", however, nobody considered the phrase "white trash" to be the sort of vulgar speech that a lady would never allow to cross her lips.
FullMoon said...
you are the topic of our discussion.
You are clearly more racist than myself since you are willing to defend Chu's racist statements at the cost of your own personal dignity. I, on the other hand, feel no compunction to defend her racist statements. So not only are you are a moron but you are a racist piece of shit as well.
FullMoon = racist piece of shit
ARM = only a little bit racist, like other normal people
Former professors were given the heave ho based on their horrible racist suggestion that people wear Halloween costumes of their own choosing. Not so much from the Chinese-American dean. Yellow trash.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
you are the topic of our discussion.
You are clearly more racist than myself since you are willing to defend Chu's racist statements at the cost of your own personal dignity. I, on the other hand, feel no compunction to defend her racist statements. So not only are you are a moron but you are a racist piece of shit as well.
FullMoon = racist piece of shit
ARM = only a little bit racist, like other normal people
5/17/17, 2:31 PM
Expectedly typical response from apparently educated but minimally intelligent racist. Your insults are as unimaginative as your trolling and diversions. Sad!
We all know that "diversity" means anything but white, so she was being consistent.
FullMoon said...
Expectedly typical response from apparently educated but minimally intelligent racist.
I am surprised that you didn't join in with the execrable Ms Chu and call me white trash as well. I also eat at the same kinds of restaurants with the same kind of people that Ms Chu disdained.
Now that you have conceded the self evident, that you are a racist piece of shit defending the indefensible, are you also conceding that Ms Chu's remarks could reasonably be interpreted as racist rather than a product of her supposedly 'elitist' environment, which is the topic of discussion, moron.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
Expectedly typical response from apparently educated but minimally intelligent racist.
I am surprised that you didn't join in with the execrable Ms Chu and call me white trash as well. I also eat at the same kinds of restaurants with the same kind of people that Ms Chu disdained.
Now that you have conceded the self evident, that you are a racist piece of shit defending the indefensible, are you also conceding that Ms Chu's remarks could reasonably be interpreted as racist rather than a product of her supposedly 'elitist' environment, which is the topic of discussion, moron.
5/17/17, 2:59 PM
That's it? Your best shot/ "Piece of shit, moron"?
hahahaha. Yo Mama wasted her money on your education, racist. Our subject is you, and your self avowed racist attitude toward Chinese people. Easy to imagine your true feelings towards other people of color, not to mention the rural poor.
Lemme guess, not in favor of school choice, right? Keep 'em down. Sad!
Racist piece of shit said...
Yo Mama
Easy to imagine your true feelings towards other people of color
"Yo Mama". Seriously? How often do get down to the 'hood to chill with your bro's? You are a caricature, not a good one.
Once again, you refuse to face the arguably racist nature of Ms Chu's comments, making you complicit in her statements and inadvertently acknowledging your own racist beliefs. This is self-evident, to everyone other than you.
AReasonableMan said...
Racist piece of shit said...
Yo Mama
Easy to imagine your true feelings towards other people of color
"Yo Mama". Seriously? How often do get down to the 'hood to chill with your bro's? You are a caricature, not a good one.
Once again, you refuse to face the arguably racist nature of Ms Chu's comments, making you complicit in her statements and inadvertently acknowledging your own racist beliefs. This is self-evident, to everyone other than you.
5/17/17, 3:24 PM
Haha, have another drink and calm down. Nobody callin' me racist but you. On the other hand, five of six commenters called you out for your racist comment.
They be watchin' me play with yo expensively poor educated racist honky ass all day.
Keep comin' back ! Sad!
FullMoon, you are apparently very committed to the idea that ethnic Chinese cannot be racist. This is deeply delusional on your part, demonstrating a profoundly limited understanding of human nature. Your belief is itself inherently racist and the fact that you cling to it so tightly reveals that you are in fact quite racist. I do not think that you fully understand how self-revelatory your argument is to an objective viewer.
I suggest you broaden you mind, ask a Tibetan wether or not they view the Chinese as prone to racial or ethnic prejudice.
FullMoon said...
They be watchin' me play with yo expensively poor educated racist honky ass all day.
How old are you?
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon, you are apparently very committed to the idea that ethnic Chinese cannot be racist. This is deeply delusional on your part, demonstrating a profoundly limited understanding of human nature. Your belief is itself inherently racist and the fact that you cling to it so tightly reveals that you are in fact quite racist. I do not think that you fully understand how self-revelatory your argument is to an objective viewer.
I suggest you broaden you mind, ask a Tibetan wether or not they view the Chinese as prone to racial or ethnic prejudice.
Nope. I am very committed to the idea of agreeing with others here that ARM made a racist comment by insinuating that all Chinese look down on poor and rural folks.
When challenged, ARM predictably attempts to change subject while lobbing grade school insults.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
They be watchin' me play with yo expensively poor educated racist honky ass all day.
How old are you?
5/17/17, 3:38 PM
Younger than yesterday.
"This has been my observation. It is not even controversial much less racist.
If you really are Chinese born then you know this to be true. The attitudes evinced in these quotes are more typical of Chinese than of whites, elite or otherwise."
Look at the male round eye, mansplaining and whitesplaining to the woman of color. Typical, ARM, typical. How dare you tell her that?
Bigot.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon, you are apparently very committed to the idea that ethnic Chinese cannot be racist. This is deeply delusional on your part, demonstrating a profoundly limited understanding of human nature. Your belief is itself inherently racist and the fact that you cling to it so tightly reveals that you are in fact quite racist. I do not think that you fully understand how self-revelatory your argument is to an objective viewer.
I suggest you broaden you mind, ask a Tibetan wether or not they view the Chinese as prone to racial or ethnic prejudice.
5/17/17, 3:37 PM
ARM, just play MadLibs with it. E.g.,
Chinese...Blacks...Jews...Irish...Gays...Frenchmen...
prone to
Prejudice/High IQ/Small Penises...Laziness/Crime/Low IQ...Greed/Big Penises/High IQ...Drunkenness/Potato Eating/Blarney...Fabulousness/Effeminacy/Poor Hygiene...Epicurianism/Cowardice/Poor Hygiene
then put the words in en enemy's mouth. And tell me you wouldn't call it racist or bigoted or prejudiced.
"buwaya is making a ridiculous argument that Chu is a victim here"
I am, and am not. Its way more complex than that.
I have had a great deal to do with the larval stage of Ms. Chu's type.
Here in SF we have one of the great gateways for FOB (Fresh off the boat) Chinese, mainly Cantonese coming through Hong Kong NT, but with origins in South China.
They come thinking like Chinese.
They fear all not like them.
Instead of straightforward integration into the American polity, the US system reinforces this fear, and attaches them as clients to the haut-bourgeois alliance system of tribal minorities. They are taught that their friends are specific white people, not those others.
Their kids go to school, nearly all public schools. There they pick up white liberal attitudes. Being Chinese they figure - correctly - that this stuff puts them on the cursus honorum, and being Chinese, that's where they want to be. What their teachers tell them to hate, they hate. For instance they take them to Angel Island where they learn stories of the white man oppressing the Chinese - yes, that is SOP in SF schools. Other schools have their equivalent. They are, without too much effort, made to hate, or at least distrust, the American volk.
And then they are taught that to get into the best universities, in spite of their honest abilities, they have to subscribe to the ideology of their teachers (what, after all, are all those college essays for?). They know they are discriminated against, but this is the filter those in power want to use, so they appreciate, at least, that they are being permitted inside.
So you get Chu, a striver who has been taught to hate and fear those her peers hate and fear, and acknowledge that her beliefs license the position they permit her to hold. Or perhaps, she does not quite get the nuance of the hate and fear quite accurately, the doubt and guilt of the white liberals, of which there is still some, and spills the beans where they would not. Chinese are direct, and have a different sort of hypocrisy than US intellectuals.
Excellent discussion, buwaya.
Chu is a Chinese name. That does not make her an expert in Japanese food or Japanese culture. Not the same thing.
Personally, I wonder if the waitresses that she claims are "chinese" are actually Filipinas. Did she even check this out?
Anyone who gets upset at "Cultural appropriation" better not come to the Philippines, where you can get rice with your hamburger or a side of Pinoy style sphagetti at McD (or at our local McD wannabe Jolibee).
buwaya said...
spills the beans where they would not
But it was her peers that spilled the beans on her. Your argument verges on insane. Chu says something to which whites could reasonably object. Whites from her 'elite' peer group complain. Her behavior is all the fault of the white 'elites'.
Can you not see that this is not a reasonable argument?
Call me white trash if you like. One day, the tug on the other end of the rope will be me. Mock my enjoyment of inauthentic cuisine then, Marie Antoinette-Chu.
FullMoon said...
five of six commenters called you out for your racist comment.
I think you may seriously overrating the value of these opinions.
So far today Chu has called people like me 'white trash' and you have called me a 'poor educated racist honky', yet I am the racist. Go fuck yourself you racist piece of shit.
After her anti-white racist/classist Yelp review tirades its satisfyingly ironic to read an article from June Chu on cultural sensitivity
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
five of six commenters called you out for your racist comment.
I think you may seriously overrating the value of these opinions.
So far today Chu has called people like me 'white trash' and you have called me a 'poor educated racist honky', yet I am the racist. Go fuck yourself you racist piece of shit.
5/17/17, 5:43 PM
That's it? Jesus! I have heard more flavorful insults from little girls playing T-Ball. And you claim to be a sailor. Sad! Obviously never been in the Navy, where colorful language is an art.
As for you self identifying as white trash, I do find it somewhat admirable. Not exactly courageous, but at least evidence of minimally honest introspection
FullMoon said...
As for you self identifying as white trash, I do find it somewhat admirable. Not exactly courageous, but at least evidence of minimally honest introspection
Now you are fully endorsing Ms Chu calling whites like myself 'white trash'.
You do understand that this completely undermines your prior argument don't you? I mean, you do get this, despite your stunning stupidity, you do get that saying it is OK for Ms Chu to call whites like me 'white trash' just destroyed your prior pathetic attempts at an argument. Please tell me that you get this and I am not simply wasting my time arguing with a potted plant.
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
As for you self identifying as white trash, I do find it somewhat admirable. Not exactly courageous, but at least evidence of minimally honest introspection
Now you are fully endorsing Ms Chu calling whites like myself 'white trash'.
You do understand that this completely undermines your prior argument don't you? I mean, you do get this, despite your stunning stupidity, you do get that saying it is OK for Ms Chu to call whites like me 'white trash' just destroyed your prior pathetic attempts at an argument. Please tell me that you get this and I am not simply wasting my time arguing with a potted plant.
5/17/17, 6:06 PM
A potted plant? Now, that is way out of bounds. That right there is an Penitentiary grade insult. Much respect. I appears I have underestimated your familiarity with vulgarity. Potted plant, INDEED!
As for argument, there is none. You made a racist statement regarding all Chinese, then went on to imply you had particular insight to Chinese culture, and then traveld on to insult a Chinese lady. Deplorable !
In his "What I Believe" routine, Steve Martin said, "I believe in equality for all people...no matter how stupid they are, or how much better I am than they are."
ARM,
Like I said, it's complex.
It's the Chinese tendency to aggressively strive and fit in, plus active indoctrination, plus not quite getting the nuance and limits of the indoctrinated attitudes. Because of course these are, in their native form, as held by their teachers, guilt-laden and hypocritical.
Their non-native students don't get that part. So she gets her leash pulled when she goes too far.
True indeed about the Philippines. It is 100pct cultural appropriation, without apologies. An unrestricted mixture of whatever whimsy or necessity dictate, accumulated over hundreds of years.
The cultural appropriation gang need some travel, and perspective. That is, the sincere ones do, but I fear most are simply hypocritical agitators.
buwaya puti said...
Chinese tendency to aggressively strive and fit in, plus active indoctrination, plus not quite getting the nuance and limits of the indoctrinated attitudes. Because of course these are, in their native form, as held by their teachers, guilt-laden and hypocritical.
Their non-native students don't get that part.
Let's revisit this argument one more time.
1. Chu says racist shit.
2. buwaya says Chu says racist shit because she has been indoctrinated by elites
3. but it was the elites who called out Chu on her racist shit
4. buwaya says, Chu is a dummy who didn't take the indoctrination correctly
5. but Chu is a member of the cognitive elite, she is a Dean at Yale
To buy into buwaya's story you have to believe that Chu is so fucking stupid that she thought it was OK to call whites at the local sushi bar 'white trash'.
Wouldn't the simpler interpretation be that Chu just said what she felt?
FullMoon said...
insult a Chinese lady.
So Chu calls people like me 'white trash' and I am the one who insulted her?
Is there a special school that people like you go to in order to learn how to be so fucking stupid?
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
insult a Chinese lady.
So Chu calls people like me 'white trash' and I am the one who insulted her?
Is there a special school that people like you go to in order to learn how to be so fucking stupid?
5/17/17, 10:18 PMAReasonableMan said... [hush][hide comment]
Mediagirl said...
ARM was caught out in a little racism of his own
I wrote: 'This is more telling about Chinese attitudes than elite attitudes.'. This has been my observation. It is not even controversial much less racist.
If you really are Chinese born then you know this to be true. The attitudes evinced in these quotes are more typical of Chinese than of whites, elite or otherwise.
Yeah, I expected you to slither back here and attempt to get the last word in so as to protect your dainty ego.
You so easy to troll. And, after you promised yourself not to fall for it again after I reeled you in last week SAD!
Sayonara, buttwipe.
FullMoon said...
You so easy to troll.
Anyone who can get someone else to say something as stunningly stupid as this wins the day, in my humble opinion.
FullMoon said...
They be watchin' me play with yo expensively poor educated racist honky ass all day.
Not only did you write this nonsense but you did it while trying to argue that I am a racist. 'Honky'? 'White trash' didn't do it for you any more?
Tiger Dean. Some of the meanest people I know....
AReasonableMan said...
FullMoon said...
insult a Chinese lady.
So Chu calls people like me 'white trash' and I am the one who insulted her?
Put it this way, arm, aren't you lowering yourself to her level?
Bad Lieutenant said...
Put it this way, arm, aren't you lowering yourself to her level?
No I simply pointed out where Chu's views come from, and it has nothing to do with buwaya's crazy ideas.
Taking ARM at face value that June Chu's "white trash" comment was more a culturally Chinese viewpoint (Chinese attitudes) than a culturally Elite viewpoint (Elite attitudes), I would have to disagree.
White Trash, as used today, is most often used politically to describe white people who hold the wrong opinions and pursuits (i.e. 'what’s the matter with Kansas', the endless commentary by the political elite journalists and academicians about the trashy pursuit of happiness in flyover country, if you are Republican Working Class - you are racist White Trash, Trump used racist ‘signaling’ to get the white trash vote, etc.). The term is almost exclusively used by elite politicians, academicians, and journalist to describe those they disagree with socially and politically. I do not think the average Chinese American believes 'white middle America', or 'Republican' is the home of white trash. I doubt very much that the Chinese attitude is that if you like Americanized Japanese food you are white trash – instead the Chinese attitude would most likely be “ignorant American’s”. White Trash is almost exclusively an Elite viewpoint. Do most Chinese Americans even use the term White Trash? In general, most cultural Chinese just think they work harder and are therefore smarter than many Americans - regardless of color.
Based on these points it would seem Ms. Chu's comments are more culturally Elite rather than culturally Chinese. In other words, an Elite attitude more than a Chinese attitude.
pdn said...
it would seem Ms. Chu's comments are more culturally Elite rather than culturally Chinese. In other words, an Elite attitude more than a Chinese attitude.
Then why would the cultural 'elites' have been the ones to call out Ms Chu for her comments? This fact alone demolishes your feelings on this issue.
If your claim was correct then Ms Chu's Chinese peers would have found her comments offensive. Didn't happen.
Did you guys ever study logic at school?
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