January 30, 2017

"It seemed to me that they had a Québécois accent. They started to fire, and as they shot, they yelled, 'Allahu akbar!' The bullets hit people that were praying. People who were praying lost their lives. A bullet passed right over my head."

Said one witness at the shooting at the Centre Culturel Islamique de Québec, where 6 men died and 18 more were wounded.
Police refuse to reveal any information about the [two men who were arrested] other than the fact they are in their late 20s or early 30s.

Police also said it's too early to know the motive....
UPDATE: The news is that one man has been arrested, Alexandre Bissonnette, and that "people who monitor far-right groups in Quebec" are familiar with him from social media as someone who is anti-immigrant and anti-Islam.

75 comments:

David Begley said...

News. One has the first name of Mohammed.

My fear is that the insane and unending Sunni v. Shia war is now in North America, The Religion of Peace strikes again.

J2 said...

Alexandre Bissonnette and Mohamed Khadir

Balfegor said...

Well, and their names:

The two men arrested following the deadly shooting at a Quebec City mosque Sunday night are Alexandre Bissonnette and Mohamed Khadir, Radio-Canada has learned.

The fact that one of them is named Mohamed Khadir does suggest that, if this was an anti-Muslim crime, it is at least a little more complicated than one might have thought at first glance.

Balfegor said...

Haha, literally everyone has the same comment.

Seeing Red said...

I thought Canada has tougher gun laws?

Bad Lieutenant said...

My first thought was natives, as Muslim killers seem to be more thorough. However, the hesitation to state detail on the accused makes me lean the other way.

Too bad PM Trudeau wasn't there. His good looks would no doubt have melted the shooters' hearts.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Ah, names. Who thinks which one is the convert/apostate?

mockturtle said...

Ah, names. Who thinks which one is the convert/apostate?

Yep. It seems that the first thing a Muslim convert wants to do is mass murder. Maybe it's like a gang initiation.

Fernandinande said...

I'm glad we don't let the French into this country.

traditionalguy said...

If it was Deplorables we would know by now, and they probably would have killed all 24 and not just 6 of the ones that they hit. So it must have been a Mexican Cartel , with a French Connection, that could not shoot straight.

Balfegor said...

Re: mockturtle:

Yep. It seems that the first thing a Muslim convert wants to do is mass murder. Maybe it's like a gang initiation.

I don't think that's all that likely . . . I think the three most likely options are:

1. Apostasy
2. False Flag
3. Something personal between the murderers and the mosque that has nothing to do with religion particularly

mockturtle said...

Since Trudeau immediately pledged 'solidarity' with the mosque attendees. Do we know yet whether he pledged solidarity with the Sunni Muslims or the Shia Muslims?

mockturtle said...

No matter what the reason, Trump will be blamed.

Gk1 said...

I hate to say it but at this point whenever the authorities say they don't want to reveal any other details about the shooters after stating one of the assailants was named Mohammed, you can bet the storey will be quickly suppressed until a new talking point can be generated. That's all the learned from the Orlando shooting. They were busy trying to blame trump and then the crazed, muslim shooter reality overtook them. You would think they would wait until all the fact where in before blaming "hate rhetoric".

Michael K said...

"Something personal between the murderers and the mosque that has nothing to do with religion particularly"

Doubtful.

Probably either Sunni-Shia or ISIS vs a moderate mosque.

The Saudis have pretty much shut down all moderate mosques here but I don;t know if they have had the same effect in Canada

Bob Ellison said...

It seemed to me? It seemed to me?!

This is news, publishable by the CBC?

What if NPR said "one guy, who would not let his name be said or published, said the shooter sounded Mexican"?

mockturtle said...

Says Balfegor in response to my post: I don't think that's all that likely . . . I think the three most likely options are:

My comment was quite toungue-in-cheek, actually. ;-)

Seeing Red said...

From reading Insty, it seems it may be a "moderate" mosque.

Birkel said...

This is every bit as tragic as the Dylan Roof shooting.
In Canada, the perpetrators will not be sentenced to death.

It is probably too much to ask that the press treat this solemnly but here's hoping.

PB said...

Maybe it was, "Allahu Akbar! Ay?" that gave them away.

Drago said...

Gk1: "I hate to say it but at this point whenever the authorities say they don't want to reveal any other details about the shooters after stating one of the assailants was named Mohammed, you can bet the storey will be quickly suppressed until a new talking point can be generated."

As we speak, leftists like ARM and "lifelong republican" Chuck are reluctantly deleting all their pre-written postings while they await new avenues of attack on Trump.

Bob Boyd said...

Matt Bissonnette was one of the Seals who got Bin Laden.

Greg Hlatky said...

Motive unknown.

eric said...

If they say they don't know the motive, that usually means it's the Mormons this time for sure.

khesanh0802 said...

Workplace violence!

David Begley said...

"Suspect in Quebec mosque terror attack was of Moroccan origin, report shows Published January 30, 2017 FoxNews"

Quaestor said...

Balfegor wrote: I think the three most likely options are:

1. Apostasy
Whose apostasy? The killers or the victims? Was that congregation about going to join the Freedom From Religion Foundation en masse? This needs splainin'.

2. False Flag
O come now, you can do better than that.

3. Something personal between the murderers and the mosque that has nothing to do with religion particularly.
Remotely possible.

Without more information speculation is useless. Does anyone wonder why the CBC is so stingy with details such as the confessional affilliation of the mosque? Those who do are probably unaware of the intimate relation between Ottawa Broadcast Centre and the Labour Party.

Jason said...

The killers were very polite, speaking in quite, clipped tones. Just shooting and apologizing, shooting and apologizing.

Curious George said...

They're Muslims. As usual both the identity and the motive in one answer.

Derek Kite said...

Reading between the lines of our Canadian Pravda, the delay in giving names meant that they were Muslims. As indeed we find out that they were.

There will be a frenzy, already started, about how oppressed muslims are, outcasts from society, and this is another indication that we should all feel guilty about.

And of course that means that we should let more of them immigrate.

Curious George said...

David Begley said...
"Suspect in Quebec mosque terror attack was of Moroccan origin, report shows Published January 30, 2017 FoxNews"

Make that eight countries, Trump. Ah, hell, throw France in there too.

Curious George said...

I wonder if any of the victims were Robert Cook's friends who have no fear of such thing.

Quaestor said...

Seeing Red wrote: From reading Insty, it seems it may be a "moderate" mosque.

Link, please?

My own research suggests otherwise. The mosque that was attacked is called Centre culturel Islamique de Québec. It is known to have strongly denounced the proposed Charte des valeurs québécoises, a piece of legislation aimed at burkas and other religious gear that obscures the face, basically a clone of the anti-burka laws in France.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"Police also said it's too early to know the motive...."

Sometimes Althouse likes to troll her own blog. I agree with the implication, but I think she herself would criticize this as less than artful. But I just think it, I don't know.

Michael K said...

Some of these motives take a long time to determine. Like until the next election.

gspencer said...

Sad as this was, the important thing to remember is,

This had nothing to do with Islam.


/s

Quaestor said...

Hardliners attacking hardliners is not out of the question. For example, on most points of theology Saudi-sponsored Wahhabism agrees seamlessly with ISIS. However, ISIS demands recognition of and submission to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as caliph, commander of the faithful and Mohammad's deputy on Earth. If a mosque is radical on every other point but rejects the caliphate bullshit, that's sufficient for the extermination of the leadership by the rules of the Islamic State. This kind of thing goes on in Syria almost daily.

Jack Wayne said...

I'm sure that Canadians feel safer today with Trudeau in charge. "To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada."

mockturtle said...

Sad as this was, the important thing to remember is,

This had nothing to do with Islam.


Because, as we all know, Islam is a religion of peace.

Angel-Dyne said...

Balfegor:

I think the three most likely options are:

1. Apostasy
2. False Flag
3. Something personal between the murderers and the mosque that has nothing to do with religion particularly


All of which, like straight-up jihadi action, are less likely to get you killed than a car crash or drowning in your bathtub, so who cares?

We need a responsible press that reports factually and responsibly on bathtub drownings, instead of getting the rubes all worked up about drop-in-the-bucket random violence.*

Mercifully, the rubes here are Canadian, so they won't be going on murderous Islamophobic rampages over statistically negligible risks, like the rubes to the South are always doing.

*Except in cases where they turn out to be white guys, in which case go immediately to the media equivalent of DefCon 1.

Jay Elink said...

Blogger Curious George said...
I wonder if any of the victims were Robert Cook's friends who have no fear of such thing.

************

Me too.

Myself, I wonder if any of them said to himself, "Well, it just as easily could have been a slip-and-fall in the bathtub."

Mark Caplan said...

As one possible explanation, 2017 marks the 1,385th year that Sunnis have been slaughtering Shiites, and occasionally vice versa.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Frickin' NRA.
Repeal Canada's 2nd amendment already.

For real, though: it's a terrible attack and we ought to feel very sad for the innocent people killed. It's awful to think you can't feel safe even within the walls of your own church.
I'm positive the actual motive will eventually come out, whether the mainstream folks want to acknowledge it or not. The knee-jerk distrust of the Media narrative (shown by many here who conclude that since the attackers' names are known but not released it must mean the reason is islamist terrorism) is well-earned but unnecessary--enough people are "on to" it now. Probably best to wait and see, and of course pray for the victims.

Curious George said...

“Muslim-Canadians are an important part of our national fabric, and these senseless acts have no place in our communities, cities and country." -PM Trudeau

Ooops.

.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Curious George said...
I wonder if any of the victims were Robert Cook's friends who have no fear of such thing.
1/30/17, 10:57 AM


Don't be silly. Cook has no friends.

JAORE said...

"All of which, like straight-up jihadi action, are less likely to get you killed than a car crash or drowning in your bathtub, so who cares?

We need a responsible press that reports factually and responsibly on bathtub drownings, instead of getting the rubes all worked up about drop-in-the-bucket random violence.*

Mercifully, the rubes here are Canadian, so they won't be going on murderous Islamophobic rampages"

Where, pray tell (you lying toad) is the evidence of these "murderous Islamophobic rampages"?

Bet for every true examples you can give, I can give ten acts of terrorism by radical Islamists. Surely you can apply your own standard (rarity) to your own statements.

Or not.

FullMoon said...

Gk1: "I hate to say it but at this point whenever the authorities say they don't want to reveal any other details about the shooters after stating one of the assailants was named Mohammed, you can bet the storey will be quickly suppressed until a new talking point can be generated."

Now saying Mohammed is a witness.

mockturtle said...

Now the story is that only Bissonette was a shooter and the other guy was a 'witness'. Guess it would behoove us [and maybe the media] to wait until they have access to the facts. No doubt there are more permutations to come.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Yup. When "Two suspects have been detained, no more are expected, their names are not being released." Hammond predicted: must be Muslims.

YoungHegelian said...

Maybe one of the shooters was told to "Take off, hosehead, eh?" by a member of the mosque & felt vengeance was required to avenge such a slight.

cubanbob said...

Why not wait for the facts to be revealed before jumping to conclusions?

Ken B said...

Balgefor: "false flag"

False flag?? Mass murder as a false flag?? Followed by decades in prison?

Sean E said...

"It is known to have strongly denounced the proposed Charte des valeurs québécoises, a piece of legislation aimed at burkas and other religious gear that obscures the face, basically a clone of the anti-burka laws in France."

As did most Canadians. It was a hideous law; far worse than anything Trump has proposed. It was aimed at all religious symbols, not just burkas (with Catholic symbols, being cultural, not religious, and therefore not included).

All of which is to say that there is a strong anti-immigrant undercurrent in the separatist movement. Sectarian violence may still be a possibility, but it's certainly not a stretch to imagine this may be home-grown.

Balfegor said...

False flag?? Mass murder as a false flag?? Followed by decades in prison?

Re: Ken B: I can't think of any false flag incidents that actually resulted in mass murder, but certainly it's a possibility. E.g., the Mukden Incident could have resulted in a lot of casualties, but the damage to the railway was actually quite minor so no one got hurt. Gleiwitz involved killing a number of people, but they weren't killed as part of the false flag attack, just left there as set dressing to make it look realistic. And people are certainly willing to endure decades in prison (or execution) to advance their political goals. I'm not sure I understand the tone of incredulity here . . .

That said, the situation is rather peculiar. It seems that only the White is being held as a suspect, but that he was also the person who called 911 to turn himself in. So I'm not sure what connection Khadir has, if any at all -- maybe he was just a friend of the suspect who happened to be sighted together with him, or something. So it looks like this might actually be a straight-up anti-Muslim hate crime.

Angel-Dyne said...

JAORE: Where, pray tell (you lying toad) is the evidence of these "murderous Islamophobic rampages"?

Bet for every true examples you can give, I can give ten acts of terrorism by radical Islamists. Surely you can apply your own standard (rarity) to your own statements.


Sorry, JAORE, I got nothin' heavier than a sledgehammer to use when posting sarcastic commentary. Maybe I could use it on your head to help you get the joke?

damikesc said...

Since Trudeau immediately pledged 'solidarity' with the mosque attendees. Do we know yet whether he pledged solidarity with the Sunni Muslims or the Shia Muslims?

They're all the same to Dreamy Trudeau, didn't you know?

“Muslim-Canadians are an important part of our national fabric, and these senseless acts have no place in our communities, cities and country." -PM Trudeau

"Muslims, dude, get your shit together. You're making me look bad!"

AReasonableMan said...

Interesting litany of false assumptions here.

Trumpit said...

"No matter what the reason, Trump will be blamed."

Trump is fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance, so he is likely to blame.

Mockturtle is to blame because she thinks Islam is a religion of hate; she hates "those people," and their odd form of dress. Six dead praying Muslims, is payback for beheadings by ISIS.

I believe that your guilt can only be absolved by self-immolation. You can be forgiven for contributing to global warming, but just this once.

Drago said...

1st Lefty: "Interesting litany of false assumptions here."

2nd lefty: "Trump is fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance, so he is likely to blame."

Discuss.

Drago said...

As Ace (of Ace Of Spades) points out: "Quebec Mosque Shooters Identified; Reporters Stop Speculating About Motive, So You Know What That Means"

There is a significant recent history with the western media following the script of blaming the nearest conservative/republican for each of these acts (witness voice-actuated automaton Trumpit) right up until the facts show a very different picture at which time the story is immediately dropped and we must move on quickly to other stories as there suddenly is "No Larger Lesson To Be Drawn Here".

It's very early in this instance so we shall see what comes of the story as actual facts (vs rumors or partial accounts) emerge.

Gk1 said...

Drago, I was thinking the same thing. If it was a white, male, trump supporter we would have heard it from the roof tops last night. But because of the silence we can reasonably surmise who and why the place got shot up.

Harold said...

On a related note, mainstream media seems to have learned a lesson about hate crime hoaxes. The Texas mosque fire has been pushed to the back pages, and I can't actually recall any speculation by authorities that it was right wing extremists. The only statements I could find in a quick look today were generic- "Let's not jump to conclusions" without even saying what conclusions might be jumped to.

I'm beginning to wonder if these Canadian mosque suspects had a social media presence. Normally by now once people have been identified, bloggers all over have searched out all the facebook and twitter and whatever rants and raves of the suspects. So far, I've seen nothing.

Bill said...

How quickly it was blamed on Muslims.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/suspect-in-quebec-mosque-attack-quickly-depicted-as-a-moroccan-muslim-hes-a-white-nationalist/

"The suspect is neither Moroccan nor Muslim. The Moroccan individual, Mohamed el Khadir, was actually one of the worshippers at the mosque and called 911 to summon the police, and played no role whatsoever in the shooting.

The actual shooting suspect is 27-year-old Alexandre Bissonnette, a white French Canadian who is, by all appearances, a rabid anti-immigrant nationalist. A leader of a local immigration rights groups, François Deschamps, told a local paper he recognized his photo as an anti-immigrant far-right “troll” who has been hostile to the group online. And Bisonnette’s Facebook page – now taken down but still archived – lists among its “likes” the far right French nationalist Marine Le Pen, Islam critics Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump..."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-attack-alexandre-bissonnette-1.3958559

"Alexandre Bissonnette, the man police believe opened fire on a Quebec City mosque, will face six charges of first-degree murder and five charges of attempted murder.

Bissonnette is set to appeared in Quebec City court on Monday afternoon.

Only 1 suspected shooter

Two men were arrested Sunday night following the shooting. Shortly after noon Monday, the Quebec provincial police said only one of the men is a suspect in the attack. The second man is now considered a witness."





mockturtle said...

I figured they'd get Trump involved, somehow.

Bill said...

Sean Spicer speaks for Trump.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3214989/sean-spicer-hints-quebec-city-mosque-shooting-justifies-trump-travel-ban/

"White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer alluded to the Quebec City mosque shooting while discussing the reasons for President Donald Trump’s travel ban.

The President offered his condolences and support to Canada and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in a phone call Monday after the terror attack at a mosque Sunday night that left six dead and multiple others wounded.

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said the event was a reminder of national security threats.

“It’s a terrible reminder of why we must remain vigilant and why the president is taking steps to be proactive and not reactive on issues of national security,” he said at a news conference Monday afternoon.

When asked about the travel ban, Spicer used almost the same wording as when he was talking about the Quebec terror attack.

That’s despite the fact that the the Quebec terror attack only targeted Muslims, and the travel ban affects seven Muslim-majority countries – as well as the fact that the alleged suspect was from Canada."

YoungHegelian said...

lists among its “likes” the far right French nationalist Marine Le Pen, Islam critics Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump.

Well, that's a motley crew, isn't it? Marine Le Pen, "far right"? We'll let that go for now. But, Dawkins & Hitchens, critics of Islam? Well, yes, insofar as they dislike all religion in general, they dislike Islam in specific. Jeezo-peep, Hitch wrote a book "Why I think Mother Theresa of Calcutta is a No-good Bitch". So, it wasn't just Islam that caught these guys' ire. The IDF? Trump?

You know, in that list, those guys have basically nothing in common. "Oh, they hate Muslims". And maybe they all hate Roquefort, too. Disliking Muslims because you want France to be French versus disliking Muslims because they are deluded fools who follow a corrupt religion, just like all believers do, are two very different things.

I'm smelling a rat here. I wonder if one false narrative got knocked down so a new false narrative can take its place.

Bill said...

Young Hegelian seems to be more concerned with his heros being maligned. To hell with the six dead Muslims shot dead in their house of worship. You people have become irredeemable.

YoungHegelian said...

@bill,

Young Hegelian seems to be more concerned with his heros being maligned

My heros? A fuckin' believing Roman Catholic with a penchant for German Idealism sees Hawkins or Hitch as heros? Put down whatcher tokin, dude! I've got nothing against the IDF, & being half French, know more about the darker side of la famille Le Pen than you ever will. None of these folks are my "heros".

My point, if you can overcome your splenetic disposition to listen to it for a moment, is that clearly the first reports were so erroneous, I'm wondering why we should believe this report when it seems, at first look, so fabricated?

It may turn out to be true, but it seems too much a convenient "just so" story right at this moment.

Angel-Dyne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Angel-Dyne said...

Bill: Young Hegelian seems to be more concerned with his heros being maligned.

"His heros". That was a remarkably stupid comment, Bill. (And I don't mean the typo.) Since YH has explained your error, you will perhaps acknowledge it and apologize for your overheated and insulting remark.

To hell with the six dead Muslims shot dead in their house of worship. You people have become irredeemable.

But I'm guessing not.

(Btw, your indignant posturing is going to do no more to help those murdered Muslims than anything else posted here.)

David said...

The liberal dream, a right wing terror attack, and it happens in Canada.

YoungHegelian said...

@David,

The liberal dream, a right wing terror attack, and it happens in Canada.

Actually, such things are not unknown in Quebec. Remember this appalling incident? It was made all the more horrific by the shooter just blowing away defenseless young women at close range (much like Sandy Hook in that close-up & personal "murder of innocence"), all in his anger at "feminism".

There is, buried under other layers of the culture, a deeply conservative strain of French violence of L'Action Francaise or Le Croix de Feu variety.

Moneyrunner said...

Hhh

Bad Lieutenant said...

Bill,

"Only 1 suspected shooter"

But the first eyewitness account said two men entered and started shooting.

Bad Lieutenant said...

YH said...

I'm smelling a rat here. I wonder if one false narrative got knocked down so a new false narrative can take its place.


Trump needs to sign an executive order to the effect that for every false narrative created, two must be refuted.



Bill said...
Young Hegelian seems to be more concerned with his heros being maligned. To hell with the six dead Muslims shot dead in their house of worship. You people have become irredeemable.

1/30/17, 5:28 PM

So, coward, why aren't you up in a tower somewhere with a long rifle waiting to fix history?