December 2, 2016

Trump told the Prime Minister of Pakistan he would "love to come to a fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people."

Quoted in the NYT article "Trump’s Breezy Calls to World Leaders Leave Diplomats Aghast."

Trump talks like Trump. What if big-shot leaders respond well that sort of thing? What if it works? Trump has been talking to powerful people over big stakes for a long time. It's possible that he knows what he's doing. But the unnamed diplomats are "aghast"...

81 comments:

MayBee said...

I LOVE IT

Original Mike said...

"dispensing with the usual practice of using State Department-approved talking points."

Perhaps he's aiming for a reset.

readering said...

Sure, anything's possible.

Kristian Holvoet said...

Aghast may be an over-reaction. I get that like Victorian dinners, there may be some more formal set of manners that he is violating, and runs the risk of seeming the ugly American.

At the same time, like Althouse pointed out, he has been dealing with international business on a large scale for a long time. He may have BETTER feel for the communication nuances than an ivory tower intellectual turned politician.

Get back to me when he sends the Queen the 'Complete Apprentice' on DVD.

readering said...

It's amazing to me after all this time the exaggerated sense people have of Trump the businessman. Read the Economist for a realistic sense of the extent of his business accomplishment.

eric said...

The media is destroying all of their credibility.

They are accustomed to having influence. If you get a George Bush in there, he is willing to listen. These guys are our betters. Who wouldn't listen to them?

Trump is saying, I'm going to do things my way. And it's driving them insane. What if it works? They'll be destroyed. For at least a generation.

Maybe I'm being a little too naive.

But, I'm hopeful.

Nonapod said...

Trump is the Al Czervik crashing the typical stuffy diplomatic relations gold club party.

eric said...

Read the Economist for a realistic sense of the extent of his business accomplishment

Listen to the wisdom of the journalists.

hombre said...

Oh, shit! Not aghast! Shit!

Now that that's out of the way, has anyone else noticed that it was undiplomatic of the diplomats to share that with the NYT?

Put Petraeus in the State Dept! That swamp is long overdue for draining.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Read the Economist

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Snort.

Wait, you're serious.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

traditionalguy said...

DJT diplomacy saying: Talk flatteringly and carry a SunTsu disciple named Mattis.

Unknown said...

Heh. Ever heard of Retief? He's a character in a series of science fiction novels written by Keith Laumer, who was a state department flunky back in Thailand or somewhere like that after WWII.

Retief was the stereotypical "Ugly American" who always used judicious force as diplomacy. You know, a fight with local leader X.

The entire series was hysterical, with people like Ambassador Hidebottom.

If Trump is using a version of Retief as his diplomacy, oh man. That would be fantastic!

--Vance

Alexander said...

And just when the Diplomats were doing such a good job pushing American interests in Pakistan, too.

Anglelyne said...

Are the righteous really going to spend the next four years casting their players in the Margaret Dumont role?

FleetUSA said...

What's the old line:

If a diplomat says yes, he means maybe
If he says maybe, he means no
If he says no, he's not a diplomat.

Therefore, starting positive with multiple countries can't be bad.

Of course the liberal diplomatic corps all have their sphincters so tight and aghast that they're often full of you know what.

rehajm said...

President Obama benefited enormously from the advice and expertise that’s been shared by those who serve at the State Department

In other words he was fucking clueless on how to proceed until the numbered dance steps were laid out on the floor in front of him.

hombre said...

"It's amazing to me after all this time the exaggerated sense people have of Trump the businessman. Read the Economist for a realistic sense of the extent of his business accomplishment."

Readering relies on the Economist? That explains a lot.

damikesc said...

I thought diplomacy was a kind term for blowing other countries' leaders as is.

Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...

"Trump has been talking to powerful people over big stakes for a long time."

Not to mention that he spent years learning from others that this sort of jabber can make you the winner. Who would have guessed that owning those pageants, with the important world diplomacy speaking portion of the competition, was his way of learning about spreading world peace? This must be the billionaire equivalent to normal folks buying Playboy for the articles. DJT bought the pageant to learn diplomacy.


Gusty Winds said...

Maybe Trump can take some pointers from John Kerry. The on hold music at the Trump State Department can loop James Taylor's "You've Got a Friend".

Henry said...

Rodney Dangerfield lives.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

President Obama benefited enormously from the advice and expertise that’s been shared by those who serve at the State Department

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Wait, they're serious too?!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Snort. Sniffle.

Hagar said...

It is probably hopeless, but again:
"The Ugly American" and his homely wife were the heroes of that book. It was the "beautiful people" who caused all the trouble.

Otto said...

I am convinced that the prime requirement for tenure at the law school of UV is to read the NYT.Stop already.

Bill said...

In other words, the bien pensants - People Like Us™ - are aghast.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

It's nice that Trump doesn't have to worry about whether he'll be able to get booze.

Sal said...

No, it'd be much better if Hillary-bot went to visit world leaders with a non-working "reset button"

n.n said...

Fantastic nation and fantastic people without a self-serving apology and condemnation tour, and a trail of broken promises, homes, and bodies. Positive progress. The dawn following an extended period of twilight, may not be the reset of a cold war with nuclear powers.

Levi Starks said...

I much prefer Obamas approach of visiting other countries, and apologizing for what an evil nation America is.

bagoh20 said...

They think they are aghast now? Just wait until it works better than being a red line erasing pussy. Then they will be super duper aghastebarrassed!

Howard said...

Gusty: Mad Dog is a big fan of JF Kerry the diplomat. Trump is not a businessman that makes great things or provides cutting edge services, he is a master manipulator, a great showman and a legal chiseler... who now believes in global warming and likes Obama care.

bagoh20 said...

The Obama apology tour was to Trump what a three alarm fire is to water.

Quaestor said...

Aghast. I bet they are. Trump wants to visit fantastic place full of fantastic people, and all Pakistan has to offer is shithole full shit-for-brains fanatics.

Unknown said...

They are aghast because like the consultants, pollsters, and political "experts" they see their jobs/position and power being treated with the disdain it deserves. And they are afraid of getting canned.

Trump could probably trim the state department budget to mexico enough to pay for the wall.

traditionalguy said...

Until August 6, 1945, the Diplomats served as the intermediaries between a state of war and a truce until the next war is started among the European Empires vying for capture of Colonial territories across the Globe. Now it is about re-establishment wars by a remade European Globalist Empire that wants to retake their colonial territories, starting of course with a big North American one that stopped them under FDR and Truman .

Fernandinande said...

Mr. Trump told the British prime minister, Theresa May, “If you travel to the U.S., you should let me know,”

Aghast is similar to "a laugh".

Unknown said...

They are aghast because Trump didn't lie, obfuscate and say nothing when talking to the guy. He just talked to him.

Unknown said...

" Blogger readering said...

It's amazing to me after all this time the exaggerated sense people have of Trump the businessman. Read the Economist for a realistic sense of the extent of his business accomplishment."

So ridiculous. And how does his business accomplishment compare to the last president or his opponent. A newstand vendor would have more business acommplishments than hillary or obama. And that is not hyperbole.

Trumpit said...

Any Pakistani will tell you the mess that their country is in. They have many nuclear weapons and should the military lose control of them, and a terrorist group takes possession, we're all in trouble.

Trump is a sycophant, and a dangerous man due to his idiocy. His memory will be relegated to the garbage pail of history. Of course that assumes that history doesn't end with WWIII caused by him and/or his appointees, such as Mad-dog. WE are luckily still here after Cheney, Scowcroft & Rumsfeld, but up to a million Iraqis died in Bush's Gulf War #2. If WWIII breaks out, maybe one million Americans will be LEFT. Those will be multimillionaires who built a fallout shelter. What a way to deal poverty!

Unknown said...

" Blogger rehajm said...

President Obama benefited enormously from the advice and expertise that’s been shared by those who serve at the State Department

In other words he was fucking clueless on how to proceed until the numbered dance steps were laid out on the floor in front of him."

500,000 Dead Syrians later. Yea, hell of a vision.

Chuck said...

Indeed: Trump, talking like Trump and paying no attention to the State Department, might just work. We conservatives have a healthy set of doubts about the career dipolmats at Foggy Bottom and at the UN.

But the equally-likely possibility is that Trump's personal style (and even personal recklessness) might lead to some big problems.

I'm not sure that there is a basis to presume either one. I don't get the impression that Professor Althouse knows, either. I gather that she just wants to raise the possibility that Trump's personal bluster and "breeziness" as the Times calls it just might work. With the flip side being, "it might also be catastrophic."

Ron Winkleheimer said...

@Trumpit

So, Trump should have told him, "your country is a shithole."

I thought diplomacy was the art of saying "nice doggy" while searching for a stick

MayBee said...

Wake me up when Trump gives Queen Elizabeth an iPod with his speeches. That's when I'll know Trump is a diplomatic genius.

buwaya puti said...

The Economist is not what it used to be, for sure.

Back in the day it was a practical journal oriented to business, especially the global expat community, who at the time were in commercial enterprises, and that, on the flip side, was a huge source of reporting and "inside" information.
The academic side was by the bye. If they needed something from East Asia they had fellows from Jardines on their rolodex. The job ads in the back told the story, where British outfits in Hong Kong, say, would place ads for graduates of Oxbridge, as management trainees abroad, etc.

These days (well, the last 20 years, certainly by the late 90's when I dropped my sub) the want ads were disproportionately for academic positions, for NGO's and quangos.

Original Mike said...

Howard said...[Trump] is a master manipulator, a great showman and a legal chiseler... who now believes in global warming and likes Obama care."

Yeah, he likes ObamaCare so much he's nominating Tom Price as HHS Secretary. Can't wait for his EPA pick.

mikee said...

It is the job of diplomats to be aghast, because it allows them to follow up their emotional response, meant to demonstrate sincerity, with a politely phrased request that someone else do something.

Screw 'em. Name one significant achievement in international diplomacy by the State Department during Obama's two terms, if you can. Name one from Bush's two terms.

The primary purpose of the modern State Department is to provide housing to the CIA, DIA, FBI and other covert and overt agents of the US operating outside our borders.

JAORE said...

Requesting the bust of Sir Winston be returned would make them agaster.

readering said...

I venture that Mattis's wide reading includes the Economist.

Anglelyne said...

Ron Winkleheimer: @Trumpit

So, Trump should have told him, "your country is a shithole."


He may yet, Ron, he may yet, lol.

Big Mike said...

Trump could do worse than to fire every Foreign Service Officer, rewrite the exam, and start over from scratch.

Ctmom4 said...

The Times conveniently forgets:" Clinton then gives a news conference about his AIDS work with President Nazarbayev and afterwards praises him for “opening up the social and political life of your country.” Clinton specifically praises Nazarbayev for pledges he had made weeks earlier to free and fair elections. Clinton suggested this commitment “will be quite influential in what I hope will be a successful bid to be the leader of the OSCE in 2009. I think it’s time for that to happen, it’s an important step, and I’m glad you’re willing to undertake it.” At the time Clinton made this statement, the U.S. government did not support Kazakhstan’s bid for OSCE leadership, citing “serious corruption.”"

Is it ok when you praise foreign dictators for financial gain? That doesn't make the diplomatic community aghast?

eric said...

The primary purpose of the modern State Department is to provide housing to the CIA, DIA, FBI and other covert and overt agents of the US operating outside our borders.

I thought it was to issue visas to non immigrants so we could increase our population of illegals in this country.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

@Anglelyne

Yes, but that is at the 2nd, frank and honest, meeting.

"Look Ahmed or whatever the hell your name is, we both know your country is a shithole. The thing is, you need to play ball. I'm sure as hell not Obama. I have a pair."

ALP said...

Why have we not seen references to the movie "Bulworth" (Warren Beatty) yet? I have been saying for years that I want Bulworth for President; this is the closest we are going to come to that.

Sebastian said...

@Mikee: "Name one from Bush's two terms." The India nuclear deal. Your turn.

Anglelyne said...

buwaya puti: These days (well, the last 20 years, certainly by the late 90's when I dropped my sub) the want ads were disproportionately for academic positions, for NGO's and quangos.

Back in the day every ambitious striver worth his salt had a subscription. (I liked it because it was the only periodical that would show up in Far BFistan in a timely fashion.)

Back in the day, I had subscriptions to a number of periodicals that are still very respectable among the "right" people, but which I wouldn't now be caught reading by phone flashlight in a dark alley.

David said...

"But the unnamed diplomats are "aghast"

Maybe. Or maybe NYT is, just this one time, not a completely repealable source.

David said...

Big Mike said...
Trump could do worse than to fire every Foreign Service Officer, rewrite the exam, and start over from scratch.


If he lined them up and shot them, he could. You go to war with the army you have, Big Mike. Same with the diplomats.

David said...

I would love to be able to visit Pakistan. But I have become too risk adverse for that.

mccullough said...

How seriously does any foreign government take our diplomats when they repeatedly assured them Trump wouldn't be elected preisdent? The ambassadors we send them are campaign donors for fuck's sake. Our diplomats don't understand the US which is the one thing foreign governments know
Wh

Otto said...

All this BS aside tell us how the recount is progressing in your state.

mccullough said...

Obama visited Pakistan in 1983 before the spread of Wahhabism. He understands as much about Pakistan as someone who last visited Detroit in 1955.

Seeing Red said...

Speak engagingly/friendly and carry a big Mattis?



Bwaaaaaaaaa

robother said...

The only pearls of wisdom in US diplomatic circles are the regulation set of clutching pearls issued to all, male and female alike (and in our State Dept they are very much alike).

YoungHegelian said...

President Obama benefited enormously from the advice and expertise that’s been shared by those who serve at the State Department

Yeah, just like Secretary Clinton. Why, those State Dept. staffers stood firm on both principle & the law to keep Clinton from setting up her own email server that might compromise both secure data & State's secure network.

Oh, wait......

Unknown said...

The man makes America a laughing stock to the rest of the world. I'm pretty sure they are thinking what the hell is wrong with those people who voted for this doofus. He's kissing the ass of Pakistan. You people voted for this fool.

damikesc said...

The man makes America a laughing stock to the rest of the world. I'm pretty sure they are thinking what the hell is wrong with those people who voted for this doofus. He's kissing the ass of Pakistan. You people voted for this fool.

Global refugee crises were caused by the current President. Yes, we need more of that.

Unknown said...

>Heh. Ever heard of Retief? He's a character in a series of science fiction novels
>written by Keith Laumer, who was a state department flunky back in Thailand or
>somewhere like that after WWII.

Let me second this with a few caveats. Retief was at his best in short stories, several collections of which are readily available. The novels were usually subpar. Second, Laumer suffered a serious stroke in the early 1970s but had to continue writint to support himself and pay medical expenses. He found a sympathetic publisher, and while you have to admire the grit of a man working a job he was no longer capable of doing, everything of his after about 1973 is unreadable.

Whether our hostess could get past the "Bond Girl" treatment of female characters is iffy too, but lots of laughs. I recommend you start here:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21782/21782-h/21782-h.htm

"The Yillian Way" aka "Protocol" is one of the best and is free at that link.

Chuck said...

Let's see if President Trump gets Dr. Afridi (who helped the CIA in the ruse to get DNA samples from the bin Laden clan before the operation to assassinate him) out of Pakistan "in two minutes."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/02/now-even-pakistan-is-calling-donald-trump-ignorant/?utm_term=.5d738ef43f59

And let's see how he does it...

Gretchen said...

What Trump understands is that it makes no difference if world leaders like him. He needs them to respect him. If they like him it is a bonus, if they have a healthy dose of fear of him it is fine too, he is more interested in America's bargaining position in the world, not his popularity in the Third World.

Let's see if China provides a staircase for President Trump's plane. Obama isn't exactly feared or respected by world leaders.

Hagar said...

Pakistan is a country, but not yet a "nation." It is an empire that may go "boom!" at any time.

mockturtle said...

As T.R. said, 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' [no Ann, there are no phallic implicatons in this].

The Cracker Emcee said...

"Perhaps he's aiming for a reset"

Good God, what a tone-deaf, childish, and patronizing bit of HRC stupidity that was. Putin or no, Russia is a great nation and I can well imagine what the Russians were saying to each other about where Hillary could stick her little red button. No wonder Putin openly despises Obama. There's no way Trump could do this worse than Obama's crew of State department clowns.

Alex said...

What is Trump supposed to say? That Pakistan is a shit-hole and there is no way in hell any sane person would want to go there?

Alex said...

Trump continues to break all the rules, libtards get the vapors. I'm lovin' it.

Larry J said...

When Reagan was getting ready to give his "tear down this wall" speech, the State Department professionals were aghast and tried to stop him. Reagan politely reminded them that he was in charge of foreign policy, not them. Trump won't be polite about telling them they have no clothes. It's about time to remind the bureaucrats who works for whom.

Seeing Red said...

It was Powell, he kept taking it out!

Seeing Red said...

The red button with the wrong spelling.

Seeing Red said...

Oh noze! America a laughing stock.
So we are defaulting to normal, eh?

So what, who cares?

As long as business gets done.

I seem to remember convos when W became president about this.

And Reagan. An actor?


Mary Beth said...

We learned from the released FBI interview transcripts that Clinton upset diplomats and ignored security protocol. Were the diplomats less aghast over safety risks than they are over this or did they not just tell journalists about it? Or maybe the journalists just weren't interested in reporting on it.


https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/hillary-r.-clinton-part-04-of-04/view

readering said...

Only Nixon could break the 22 year impasse with PRC. Now only Trump can break the 37 year cold shoulder to ROC. More brilliance from the deal-maker, no doubt.