November 26, 2016

"My grandparents’ generation, which benefited a lot from him, will feel very strongly. In my parents’ generation, there is also still a lot of loyalty."

 "In my generation, you’ll see more differences. In a large portion of the young people, what you will see is apathy."

From a NYT piece about how young people in Cuba are reacting to the death of Fidel Castro.

There's another post linking to the Castro obituary. Please limit comments here to the subject of generational differences in reacting to a big political event. You don't have to limit yourself to reactions to the death of Castro.

In fact, let me get the expansion going in a good direction by adding something from the November 13th episode of "This American Life," which was about reactions to Trump's victory in the American election. We hear from Janelle, a young black comedienne, who says that "all the older black people" she's talked to are not surprised that Trump won. The mother does not speak on the radio show. We're not told the specific age of the mother or daughter, and we only hear the daughter's presentation:
I called her thinking she would be even worse than me, and she was so chill that it was surprising. I called her, and I was like, can you believe this? And she was like, you know where we live.... It's kind of resigned. I feel like that's how black people are. We're just like, this is how it's gonna be. And you get little moments of reprieve. Like, I guess Obama here and there. But it always comes back. Like, we're just always waiting for the shoe to drop. And it's an ever-present thing that we have to deal with, this feeling of being just always, this [BLEEP] is dangerous is how I feel, you know. [BLEEP] surrounded..... Whereas maybe before, I had forgotten. That's what happens. You forget. And then this [BLEEP] happens. And you're like, oh yeah. We know where we live, like my mother says. Like, that's basically what she was saying, like, oh, you forgot.... It just calmed me down. I'm not, like, oh, now everything's going to be fine. I'm still like, people are just on alert.

48 comments:

Oso Negro said...

Perhaps a stretch, but - I just spent a week in Tanzania, my third in the past 18 months. I am again struck by the ease of relationships between the races there. I know, I know, a lot may be going on below the surface, but it is remarkable to me that I have met perhaps half a dozen Africans, who spent time in the U.S.A. only to return home due to the toxic attitude of American blacks. At the age of 59, I have come to believe that American blacks will NEVER get over it. A black president? Not enough. Racism! Racism today, racism tomorrow, racism forever. And by God, they live easy lives compared to the poor of Africa.

The Drill SGT said...

Castro was great for Cuba. Where else can you find a well maintained 1956 Chevy Belair for $1000?

The Drill SGT said...

Oso Negro said...but it is remarkable to me that I have met perhaps half a dozen Africans, who spent time in the U.S.A. only to return home due to the toxic attitude of American blacks.

I occasionally heard the opposite from close black friends who traveled to Africa. That they were lucky that their ancestors were brought to the US when they look at some of the $hit holes that African leaders have turned their countries into after the whites were thrown out.

Hagar said...

Well, it is a fact that American Blacks never have shown any great enthusiasm for emigrating to any other country. Even Liberia was "White" program and the settlers not necessarily voluntary.
Some Blacks of today might do well to think about that.

Laslo Spatula said...

"My grandparents’ generation, which benefited a lot from America, will feel very strongly. In my parents’ generation, there is also still a lot of loyalty. In my generation, you’ll see more differences. In a large portion of the young people, what you will see is apathy."

I am Laslo.

tim maguire said...

I was in Catholic school in South Miami in the late 70's. Many of my classmates were children of people who fled Castro. They were just waiting for Castro to fall so they could move back to Cuba and resume their old lives. It's not surprising that their children, my classmates, had an expectation that Miami was temporary and Castro was the only thing standing in the way. But I would expect the grandchildren to think of themselves as American. That's fairly normal. The memories get replaced by family lore. The edge wears off.

The black community, though, is facing something very different. They are being taught to hang on to grievances, to interpret all events through the prism of their grievances, and there's just enough truth to keep the dark fantasy going.

Rae said...

Completely predictable, and preventable. Would allowing open immigration from Venezuela, rather than, Syria, be a good idea?

Rusty said...

"We hear from Janelle,"
Yes, Janelle. Because being black and poor is inevitable. There is absolutely nothing YOU can do to change your situation.

The Drill SGT said...
"Castro was great for Cuba. Where else can you find a well maintained 1956 Chevy Belair for $1000?"

Maybe in in 1969, but by now those wrecks have been wrenched on so long and so hard that there are hardly any original parts left on the vehicle. Believe me. You're better off finding something here or Canada or Mexico.

The kids, of Cuban parents, I went to high school with in the 70s were very grateful their parents emigrated to the United States.

Luke Lea said...

My first thought on hearing the news of Castro's death was, will Obama attend the funeral? My guess is yes. He will do it ostensibly as an occasion to utter platitudes about the future of US Cuban relations, but the real reason will be to honor the leftish dreams of his family and youth.

MadisonMan said...

I wonder what the equivalent US President would be -- one admired by the old, but generating a big old "Meh" from the young? That would mean the guy would have to live to a good old age, ruling out, say, JFK or FDR. Eisenhower? Truman? Reagan? I don't know.

I should learn Spanish.

Robert Cook said...

I'm not pro-Trump, but I wonder if the young black woman interviewed can point to anything Obama has done to benefit her community?

Hagar said...

One would think the Left would be more conflicted about Castro's death. After all Castro and the Kennedys were enemies who repeatedly tried to kill each other, but then, consistency and logic are not strong traits among them.

khematite said...

William Strauss and Neil Howe made a bit of a splash in the 1990s with books laying out theories of generational change and perspective, mainly in the US. These theories were ultimately refined to an astonishing degree--which does not mean they were correct. Strauss & Howe did create something of an industry by assessing how the cycle of generations could be exploited by businesses and other enterprises dependent on social trends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory

MadisonMan said...

I wonder if the young black woman interviewed can point to anything Obama has done to benefit her community?

Showed that it could be done? That is, become President. I suppose that's not a direct benefit, but image matters.

Phil 3:14 said...

Robert Cook said:

"I'm not pro-Trump"

Thanks for clarifying.

Sebastian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sebastian said...

Staying on topic as instructed: "My grandparents’ generation, which benefited a lot from him, will feel very strongly. In my parents’ generation, there is also still a lot of loyalty."" Funny how socialism reverses the natural order of things -- including the old-saw witticism by Clemenceau (or Churchill or whoever) that anyone who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart etc. Of course, the notion that a whole generation "benefitted a lot" from Castroism is itself absurd, but it attests to the man's evil genius. Eagerly embraced by US pinkos, of course.

jacksonjay said...

Of course, the question of the day for Miss Thang of interview fame is: "Was the [BLEEP] danger scary enough to motivate you or your Mama to go [BLEEP] vote?" We all know the answer. The reason for the answer would have something to do with [BLEEP] intimidation! This is all so predictable.


"Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat."

Muhammad Ali

Ann Althouse said...

Wouldn't the mother also think Hillary couldn't help? Didn't the black vote detemine the outcome? If the mother says this is what America is, shouldn't her attitude explain how Hillary lost?

Paul Zrimsek said...

One of the things older people know is that you don't always get your own way.

Bay Area Guy said...

The generational differences are easy to explain. The older generation who had their property confiscated, fled, and saw a Leftist dictator hijack their country - get it.

Their children who grew up in ease and comfort in the US - they don't get it.

cubanbob said...

Sebastian said...
Staying on topic as instructed: "My grandparents’ generation, which benefited a lot from him, will feel very strongly. In my parents’ generation, there is also still a lot of loyalty."" Funny how socialism reverses the natural order of things -- including the old-saw witticism by Clemenceau (or Churchill or whoever) that anyone who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart etc. Of course, the notion that a whole generation "benefitted a lot" from Castroism is itself absurd, but it attests to the man's evil genius. Eagerly embraced by US pinkos, of course."

The presumption on the Left being that Castro gave the Cuban people education and health care. As if the country had neither before him. For a backwards Latin country in the fifties my mother was a math major at the top University in the country, her sister graduated as a pharmacist, my father's sisters were graduates in chemistry and in law, the lawyer being in Fidel's law school class. The country had the second highest GDP in Latin America at the time and there was an established public health system which included HMOs.

The only thing the communist have done is make the grandchildren worse off than the grandparents.

southcentralpa said...

Generational differences? Okay, southwestern PA voters. Their grandparents thought the Holy Trinity was the Father, the Son, and FDR. Their parents were troubled by the McGovernites but could not bring themselves to vote GOP in any substantial number. The current generation has finally realized that the modern Dem party hates them and has, at long last, decided to return the sentiment.

Gahrie said...

, you know where we live....

If you truly feel this way...why not get the fuck out?

I'm sure there are dozens of Black run countries where Black people have a higher standard of living, more freedom and more opportunity than they have here in this intrinsically and institutionally racist America....right?

jacksonjay said...

Van Jones said something about a "white lash" being the reason Trump won. Seems like lots of folks are saying whitey determined the outcome. President Snark and Michelle both tried and failed to bring home Black and White Democrats, so apparently it wasn't just Crooked Hillary!

Richard Dolan said...

The 'generational differences' theme has all the appeal of inquiring whether the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. It is true about almost every significant event occurring during the lifespan of those still living, to say nothing of once prominent players in almost any field. One of the astounding videos on the web consists of random interviews of college students asking them if they knew what historical event the term Holocaust refers to. You can fill in the rest, and could repeat the exercise ad libidum with a topic or personality of your choice.

Michael K said...

I have met perhaps half a dozen Africans, who spent time in the U.S.A. only to return home due to the toxic attitude of American blacks.

I have seen this in black medical students over the years. Most the ones I have had are from other countries, African or West Indian. The West Indian kids also have a legacy of slavery but seem immune to the terrible racial animus and despair, which seems to me to have gotten worse the past 50 years.

One of my African students was from Eritrea, a very poor and violent country., Her parents had gotten her out and to South Africa, then to Europe and finally to Los Angeles where she lived with a grandmother. She was so poor she did not have a laptop, which medical students have instead of microscopes these days. Her car broke down and it took all her money to fix it. I loaned her diagnostic instruments so she didn't have to buy them.

That same year, I had a black American student who had all sorts of psychological problems and flunked out. The other black students (I had three in my group that year) tried to help him but I have had black foreign born students tell me that they don't understand American blacks.

We are dealing with a group that was smart enough to get accepted to medical school so they had some intact structure in their lives. Still, like that kid at U of Missouri whose father makes millions, they have this fantasy of oppression. In fact, they are so favored that foreign born blacks just shake their heads at it.

I examine military recruits part time. I had a kid a few months who was from east Africa. He was a legal immigrant joining the US Army. He had his life planned for the next 20 years. Join the Army and get his citizenship; then go to college on the GI Bill. Then he planned to go to medical school. He told me that America was the greatest place on earth and he was so happy to have this opportunity.

The race hustlers may have condemned blacks to misery for a century or more.

Big Mike said...

I have the sense that the Greatest Generation and the generation immediately before us Boomers positively worshipped FDR. Modern economic analysis tells us that his policies deepened the Great Depression and made it worse. I think his star will continue to dim over time.

I think future generations will look back at the eight years just past and wonder how anyone intelligent could have given Obama a high favorability rating in the face of his divisive policies and near-total economic ignorance. Personal opinion, of course.

Big Mike said...

The race hustlers may have condemned blacks to misery for a century or more.

@Michael K, yup. We lost the Vietnam War, the War on Drugs, and the War on Poverty. As regards inner city Blacks, Poverty won big time.

Unknown said...

It should be no surprise that Castro has his supporters in Cuba, but do these anecdotes really tell us anything? People of a certain age in the Soviet Union mourned Stalin. Likewise many Germans mourned Hitler.

Unknown said...

It should be no surprise that Castro has his supporters in Cuba, but do these anecdotes really tell us anything? People of a certain age in the Soviet Union mourned Stalin. Likewise many Germans mourned Hitler.

Gahrie said...

We lost the Vietnam War

This isn't true. We won the Vietnam War. We won every major battle of the Vietnam War. When we left South Vietnam in 1973, we had destroyed both the Vietcong and the North Vietnamese Army and crippled North Vietnam's ability to wage war. South Vietnam had a relatively stable government and a peace treaty with the North. We promised to come to South Vietnam's aid if they were attacked again.

In 1975, after rebuilding their armed forces, North Vietnam attacked the South again, and we refused to honor our commitment thanks to the Democrats in Congress.

We won the war, and lost the peace.

Owen said...

Can we do an exchange program: a million young people like the one described by Michael K, for a million of our home-grown malcontents?

Heck, we could even go for a 2:1 ratio. Let the market speak.

Gahrie said...

We lost.... the War on Drugs

An unwinnable war. The use of mind altering substances is common to every human culture.

Gahrie said...

We lost ..... and the War on Poverty

Well....yes and no. We haven't "won" the war on poverty, because the government changes the definition of poverty every single year, always ratcheting it upward. The war is by definition unwinnable, since someone will always be poorer than someone else. If we gave every single person in the US a million dollars, next year the definition of poverty would be "only has a million dollars".

But we have managed to improve the standard of living for the poor so that:

A) Obesity, not hunger is the biggest health challenge for the poor

B) The average poor person in the US has a higher standard of living than 95% of all the humans who have ever lived.

Darrell said...

2016 has really cleaned house.

SukieTawdry said...

I'm in the vanguard of the Boomer generation and I've been waiting for this death notice for 50 years. It was from Fidel Castro that I first learned to hate, loathe and despise communism. I've not one good thing to say about the bastard and hope he rots in Hell for eternity. My only regret is that he didn't take his brother with him.

Birches said...

The young just weren't sufficiently brainwashed.

Unknown said...

Trump's buddy Putin's reaction to Castro's death.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/307545-putin-castro-was-a-reliable-friend-of-russia

"Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday offered his condolences to Cuba after the announcement of Fidel Castro’s death at 90.

"The name of this outstanding statesman is considered to be a symbol of an era in the modern history of the world," Putin wrote in a telegram to Castro’s brother, Cuban President Raul Castro, according to a translation of a statement released by the Kremlin.

Putin said Cuba under Castro's communist rule “served as an inspiring example for many countries and peoples."

"Fidel Castro was a sincere and reliable friend of Russia. He made an enormous contribution to the formation and development of Russian-Cuban relations, close strategic cooperation in all fields.""

Big Mike said...

@Gahrie, you're right. Sort of like Iraq under Bush the Younger, then under Obama and the Democrats.

Howard said...

Gahrie on Viet Nam: Sounds like a whining, crying Hillary supporter who claims the Goddess won because popular vote and electoral college un-American.

Gahrie said...

@Howard:

Point out a factual inaccuracy in what I stated.

RigelDog said...

I didn't pay much attention to politics when I was young--those old men were irrelevant. After 9-11 I payed attention. Our kids have heard plenty about our concerns with the loss of constitutionally-protected freedoms and they like to tune that out too. Our son--senior in college--is more interested in current events than I was at that age, and expresses more progressive ideas. Something wonderful happened in this election cycle, though: on his own, he saw the aggressive media and cultural push in favor of Hilary and against Trump. He termed it "ridiculous." Once seen, he can never un-see that propaganda strategy. Yay!!

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I couldn't listen to any of the election-themed This American Lifes; just could not stomach it. Doesn't sound like I missed out on much. That woman's completely inarticulate, cogitation-free ramblings being treated with grave respect in TAL fashion would have made me throw my phone across the room.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Also, Janelle, can you show me on the doll where Donald Trump hurt you?

I'd like to hear some kind of credible reason, and not a baseless moral panic, that black or any other people should be afraid of a Trump administration.

The Drill SGT said...

In 1975, after rebuilding their armed forces, North Vietnam attacked the South again, and we refused to honor our commitment thanks to the Democrats in Congress.

Insert: "In 1975, after rebuilding their armed forces, North Vietnam broke the Paris Peace Accord and attacked the South again, and we refused to honor our commitments thanks to the Democrats in Congress."

Hyphenated American said...

This is the key sentence:

"Some said the country would be better off, freer now, though they said it quietly, wary that someone might overhear such hopes."

Cuba is like an American university, the left brutally suppress and silence opposing views. I wonder if it would be a hate crime in Cuba to tell the commies to suck it up. In American universities, it is a hate crime.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/23/students-reaction-to-trump-win-suck-it-u

"At Edgewood College, police are investigating a post-it-note that was deemed a "hate crime" by college officials.

The post-it-note says "Suck it up, pussies!" Whoever wrote it also drew a winking, tongue-out smiley face."

Freeman Hunt said...

Doesn't somethimg have to be a crime in order to be a hate crime?