November 23, 2016

"Betsy DeVos is a brilliant and passionate education advocate. Under her leadership..."

"... we will reform the U.S. education system and break the bureaucracy that is holding our children back so that we can deliver world-class education and school choice to all families."

Said Trump, appointing DeVos as Secretary of Education.

ADDED: From Chad Livengood, Jonathan Oosting and Michael Gerstein in The Detroit News:
In 2000, Betsy and Dick DeVos funded an unsuccessful statewide ballot initiative to amend the state Constitution to allow tax dollars to be used for private school tuition through education vouchers. They have since advocated for school vouchers in other states.

In 2012, Dick DeVos led the charge in getting the Legislature to make Michigan a right-to-work state, eliminating work rules that made financial support of unions a condition of employment for teachers in public schools.... 
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush also praised DeVos as an “outstanding pick for Secretary of Education.” Bush said “she has a long and distinguished history championing the right of all parents to choose schools that best ensure their children’s success. Her allegiance is to families, particularly those struggling at the bottom of the economic ladder, not to an outdated public education model that has failed them from one generation to the next.”...
 Lily Eskelsen García, president of the National Education Association, meanwhile, issued a statement saying DeVos has done more to undermine public education than support students. “She has lobbied for failed schemes, like vouchers — which take away funding and local control from our public schools — to fund private schools at taxpayers’ expense. These schemes do nothing to help our most-vulnerable students while they ignore or exacerbate glaring opportunity gaps,” Garcia said. DeVos has consistently pushed a corporate agenda to privatize, de-professionalize and impose cookie-cutter solutions to public education, Garcia said....

David Hecker, president of the American Federation of Teachers in Michigan, called the intended appointment “devastating for public education” because DeVos has devoted her career to “undercutting” public education by advocating for private charter schools. Hecker said he feels “bad that now the remaining 49 states” will have their education policy influenced by someone intent on enriching those in the private charter school industry. “She wants her million and billionaire friends to profit off of childhood education,” Hecker said....
I think you can see where this is headed. A massive loss for public school teachers unions. 

97 comments:

Charlie Martin said...

Shouldn't that strictly be "nominating DeVos"?

exhelodrvr1 said...

Mixed feelings. She is a common core proponent, which is bad, but a charter school advocate, which is good.

Unknown said...

School choice should be a huge winner for republicans. Good on trump to make it a centerpiece.

coupe said...

I thought Republicans were going to shut that unit down?

Tell me again, why do we need a billion dollar agency that is dysfunctional?

Unknown said...

Hahahahaha! Another reversal.

Chuck said...

Betsy and Dick DeVos are charter school fanatics.

This is an interesting pick. In "establishment" education circles, Betsy Devos is a radical. An extremist.

In "establishment" GOP circles, she is one of them. A blue-blooded thoroughbred GOP donor/insider. She is the former Chairperson of the Michigan Republican Party. Her husband was a candidate for governor who lost in an anti-GOP year. her brother is Blackwater Group founder Erik Prince.

She was an ardent, anti-Trump supporter of John Kasich in the primary:
http://westmipolitics.blogspot.com/2016/07/betsy-devos-refuses-to-back-trump-after.html

This is so much fun, this new Trump team!

AprilApple said...

"Charter School fanatic" - you say that like it's a bad thing.

Steven Wilson said...

I was hoping for Larry Arnn, as I am convinced Arnn would have accepted it only if he could shut it down.

AprilApple said...

Remember when Obama, as a thank-you to the corrupt teachers unions, killed the DC voucher program that helped low income black children escape failing DC public schools?

you know - because progressives care about the poor. Good times.

gadfly said...

Unfortunately, Betsy DeVos is more than a supporter of school vouchers, she supports Common Core.

DeVos has served on [Jeb Bush’s] foundation’s board of directors. Among these “experts” from Jebworld are alumni of Bush’s Chiefs for Change (Gerard Robinson and Tony Bennett) and former members of Bush’s gubernatorial education team (Hanna Skandera). All of these candidates predictably support progressive education in general and Common Core in particular. Indeed, Bennett was booted out of his position as Indiana State School Superintendent for that very reason. Why would Trump even consider someone coming out of the environment on which he heaped such scorn during the campaign?

Bay Area Guy said...

I like the charter schools, I love homeschooling and vouchers, not a big fan of Common Core, though.

On the whole, a good appointment!

Chuck said...

AprilApple said...
"Charter School fanatic" - you say that like it's a bad thing.


I did sort of say that like it was a bad thing, and I didn't mean it as a bad thing. "Fanatic" does that. I am a Republican fanatic myself. A Federalist Society fanatic. An election law fanatic. A Michigan football fanatic. A Hendricks Gin/Noilly Prat vermouth Martini fanatic.

Personally, I love this pick. My second favorite, so far, next to Jeff Sessions for AG.


Browndog said...

exhelodrvr1 said...

Mixed feelings. She is a common core proponent

I don't know what information you have, but here in Michigan it is common knowledge that she is very anti-Common Core.

Aside: Michigan liberals hate the Devos family with a passio

robother said...

Charter Schools have the best potential of splitting off Black parents who care about their kids from the Democrat machine. (Unfortunately, the percentage of 2 parent Black families probably puts a low limit on that number.)

buwaya puti said...

If they do get rid of the DOE, or cut it down substantially as with a block grant system (oh, won't that set the cat among the pigeons; the state DOEs would snap at that bait, and create a civil war among the educrats), I hope they keep NAEP and PISA funds.

I must have my fix of data.

Anyway, Common Core is just fine as an idea, nearly all the Euros, Japan, Korea, Singapore etc. have this sort of thing. The real problem is whats in and whats out of Common Core, and who decides. That is the sticky bit.

I think we will eventually see the left hating Common Core and the right defending it.

mockturtle said...

Trump said he would abolish the Common Core curriculum and provide choice for schools. I fully expect these measure to be implemented.

Recently, I compared the average annual cost per child of public vs. private education and the private was a lot less. If nothing else, it will save money. And I can't imagine the academic achievement could be any worse.

I would hope that the new Ed Sec would prepare for the department's elimination but bureaucrats never seem to see the redundancy of their own domains.

sane_voter said...

I think charter schools are more important than common core. Common core is easily reversed, establishing charter schools across the country is not.

AprilApple said...

Gadfly - Not good. Common core is a YUGE mistake. Thanks for the link.

Drago said...

chuck: "I am a Republican fanatic myself. A Federalist Society fanatic. An election law fanatic. A Michigan football fanatic. A Hendricks Gin/Noilly Prat vermouth Martini fanatic"

But very clearly not a "lets discuss the failures of the liberal democrat candidate at an appropriate level of detail" fanatic.

At all.

AprilApple said...

Chuck - thanks for the fanatic clarification. :)

Drago said...

Unknown: "Hahahahaha! Another reversal."

Another incorrect interpretation of events and actions outside his/her understanding by Unknown!

Hahahahahaha!

sane_voter said...

I have long said that the existing public school structure is the biggest threat to the future of our Republic. Charter schools are the most effective means to attack that structure.

Chuck said...

Drago-

Sheeeeiit; you still need somebody to help you bash Democrats? They lost! You're going to have a hard time finding any Democrats above ground these days!

I am just having a good old time, seeing the GOP establishment populate the Trump Administration!

Michael K said...

gadfly is alarmed. I guess this is a good appointment. Trump makes such good enemies.

I don't like "Common Core" although most of the problems are due to Ed school fads. We had "The New Math" back in the 60s. It seems like the worse ed school students get in terms of academic ability, the more ed school faculty choose nutty "reforms" to keep themselves occupied and publishing in journals no one ever reads except Ed Ds.

I would prefer the department be shut down but this is the next best step and may be another opening to black voters by Trump. The Democrats have to choose between contradictory agendas in their client groups.

Teachers' unions vs black parents who want to educate their kids.

Black voters and immigration advocates.

Union members and immigration advocates.

Jay Cost's book, "Spoiled Rotten" explained it pretty well.

Chuck said...

sane_voter said...
I have long said that the existing public school structure is the biggest threat to the future of our Republic. Charter schools are the most effective means to attack that structure.


If that is your view, you have no greater heroes anywhere in the world, than Betsy Devos. It is her passion. And it is her passion, for precisely the reason that you have chosen. She regards charters as a broad instrument of power, attacking the teachers unions and other allied liberal interests.


John said...

I hear good things about her and suspect that she is a good pick.

OTOH, she is married to Amway heir Dick DeVos. I worry that she will get parents into a locked room to talk about education then hound them until they become Amway distributors.

Based on her connection with Amway, an odious company, I think I am opposed to her choice.

That and $5 may get you a coffee flavored beverage in Starbucks. So I'll wait and see.

I hope he is picking her to preside over the dismantling of the Dept of Education. I suspect it will still be there in 2020 though.

John Henry

Bay Area Guy said...

Maybe, DeVos will simply close down the Department of Ed, which would be great. Perhaps, she could hollow it out from within.

Does it make any sense for citizens of say, California, to pay a buttload of federal taxes, a share of which is used fund the Department of Education, which funnels back $$ to favored groups in California, while taking a nice big cut of the dough in the process?

I think not.

eric said...

She says she is not a supporter of common core.

http://betsydevos.com/qa/

Drago said...

"lifelong republican" Chuck: "Drago-Sheeeeiit; you still need somebody to help you bash Democrats?"

Oh, so that is your new limited modified hangout.

As expected.

Not to worry, like all "lifelong republicans" no one actually expects you to contribute anything that could be construed as negative towards the dems/liberals/left.

But thanks for showing up at the victory party that you predicted would never happen.

eric said...

I am just having a good old time, seeing the GOP establishment populate the Trump Administration

You mean like Bannon?

Who could he pick that isn't establishment?

John said...


Blogger Michael K said...

I don't like "Common Core" although most of the problems are due to Ed school fads.

If DeVos did nothing other than defund ed schools I would forgive almost anything else. I might even sign up to be an Amway dealer!

They are the worst possible thing for education. They should be closed, burned down, the ground strewn with salt and all their graduates sent to work in fields where they will be nowhere near education.

I say this as a graduate of a top rated education school. Getting my Ed Masters degree was an experience completely devoid of learning. I say that having an MBA from another school as well as almost 30 years teaching in the business school of the U where I got my ed degree and 5 years teaching in an Industrial Engineering school.

Also married, more than 40 years, to a HS teacher who did not attend an ed school.

Michael, you really don't want to get me started on ed schools. :)

John Henry

Chuck said...

John said...
I hear good things about her and suspect that she is a good pick.

OTOH, she is married to Amway heir Dick DeVos. I worry that she will get parents into a locked room to talk about education then hound them until they become Amway distributors.

Based on her connection with Amway, an odious company, I think I am opposed to her choice.

What did Amway ever do to you, I wonder?

Anyway, Betsy and Dick are pretty far removed from Amway; she was never in the company as far as I know, and her husband (son of the co-founder Richard DeVos) retired from Amway a long time ago, and he is truly busy with a lot of other stuff. Dick's younger brother Doug is now the DeVos helping to manage Amway.

You're just way off base with that comment.

Wilbur said...

"...we will reform the U.S. education system and break the bureaucracy that is holding our children back so that we can deliver world-class education and school choice to all families"

I would have chosen to simply send legislation to Congress to abolish the DOE.

A laser-like focus on charter schools is the next best option. Ryan and the GOP better use a meat cleaver to the rest of their budget.

eric said...

But thanks for showing up at the victory party that you predicted would never happen.

They rejected Trump because he wasn't establishment enough. Then he got popular because he was anti establishment. This pissed them off. So they predicted he would lose in a landslide and be the only Republican who could lose to Hillary.

They further predicted he is a liar and a crook. So now we are left with four years of them trying their damnedest to make that prediction true.

See! See! He is establishment just like we said. Ha ha ha! Losers! You voted for a liar and a crook!

These losers don't go away after losing. They just double down on stupid.

Chuck said...

eric, you ask "Who could [Trump] pick that isn't establishment?"

My answer: I dunno. I suppose that there are a whole slew of Hannity/Bolling/Limbaugh/Glenn Beck nutjobs who could be tapped. Dr. Carson, I expect, is going to be given something. Sarah Palin, I expect, won't be given much of anything.

In any event, my own expectation is that apart from Donald Trump's nuttiness, the lasting things to come out of the next four years, with or without an impeachment of Trump, will look a lot like the things that would have come out of a Scott Walker presidency.

eric said...

How about Sessions, is he establishment? Bannon? This DeVos?

Drago said...

Latest "lifelong republican" Chuck insight and prognostication: "In any event, my own expectation is that apart from Donald Trump's nuttiness, the lasting things to come out of the next four years, with or without an impeachment of Trump, will look a lot like the things that would have come out of a Scott Walker presidency."

Earlier "lifelong republican" Chuch insight and prognostication: "eric, I am voting a straight Republican ticket. And so should you, if you hate Mrs. Clinton as much as I do.

The difference between you and I, it seems, is that I saw clearly the coming Trump dumpster fire before you did.

Anyway, I am tired of arguing with the Trumpkins. Going forward, it won't be argument; it will simply be berating. A beatdown.
10/12/16, 10:29 AM"


Thanks Chuck! Always "helpful" to read your latest brilliant missives on all things political.

It seems you have moved fully into the Trump impeachment mode.

You know, just like all the other "lifelong republicans".

LOL

Chuck said...

But thanks for showing up at the victory party that you predicted would never happen.

I might feel like an uninvited party-crasher, but for the fact that The Establishment GOP is in full control of both houses of Congress.

Earnest Prole said...

That you used the verb appoint instead of nominate shows you're taking your retirement seriously.

Drago said...

Chuck: "I might feel like an uninvited party-crasher,...."

Might? LOL

Facts don't care about your feelings.

"lifelong republican" Chuck continues: "...but for the fact that The Establishment GOP is in full control of both houses of Congress"

Something else you said would crash and burn due to Trump.

Thanks for doubling down and beclowning yourself even more. Can't wait to hear more of your "typical lifelong republican" Trump/impeachment chatter. And by "can't wait", I of course mean find laughably hilarious.

Chuck said...

Drago; we can disagree, but don't lie. I flat out predicted a House with a comfortable majority, and 51 or 52 Republican seats in the Senate. I was spot-on. Look it up, you asshole.

wildswan said...

I hoped the Dept. of Ed. would be abolished right away but let's face it - doing so does require a plan. So perhaps it's better to appoint an charter school advocate and general radical. If the Department of Education starts promoting charter schools and opposing Common Core and gets rid of the kissing policy and the bathroom policy, then the Dems will start calling for its abolition. Then we do abolish it - together. Also divisions could be shut down slowly as budget-cutting required. Giving people time to find new jobs and relocate is humane.

Chuck said...

eric said...
How about Sessions, is he establishment? Bannon? This DeVos?


Sessions; absolutely I think he's establishment.

Bannon; not establishment. And, he won't be in the cabinet, he won't lead a department, and he won't have to face Senate confirmation hearings.

DeVos; in Pure Michigan, she is Pure Establisment.

Add Nikki Haley (nearly NeverTrump establishment); Congressman Mike Pompeo (House committee establishment), and yeah I think that there are going to be a lot of Establishment people in the Trump Administration.

Chuck said...

btw, Drago; I certainly did predict that Trump would lose. By a near-landslide. I got that wrong. I got it wrong, even as I voted a straight Republican ticket including an effective (but not itemized) vote for Trump-Pence.

Just wanted to be clear about that.

J. Farmer said...

Charter schools are fine enough for people whose kids are stuck in shitty schools, but overall they're about as useless as most other education reforms. The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents.

sinz52 said...

Good pick.

DeVos is one of the strongest advocates of school choice you'll find anywhere. That's what counts.

I never cared about Common Core one way or the other. Great teachers can teach to any curriculum, and bad teachers can't teach to any curriculum.

Fernandinande said...

We are DeVos

Doug said...

Why does the NYT refer to an eminent neurosurgeon as "Mr. Carson"?

mccullough said...

Farmer,

You forgot about the dumb lazy teachers and administrators. Other than that, spot on.

This woman's qualifications seem to be that she married a guy whose dad was wealthy and they've given a bunch of money to GOP party hacks. Shes thoroughly mediocre so a perfect pick for the DoE.

Alex said...

In theory a "Common Core" seems like a good idea. Japan, South Korea implement standardized learning very well and have disciplined students. In America which is so diverse it makes no sense to impose a federal standard on a 1000 different sub-cultures.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Charter schools are fine enough for people whose kids are stuck in shitty schools, but overall they're about as useless as most other education reforms. The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents."

They learned dumb and lazy from you and your dumb/lazy life and comments, ya dummy.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Apologies farmer, I just realized your dad was the laziest, dumbest piece of crap in the county.

My bad.

That apple why, she don't fall far now do she?

Guildofcannonballs said...

Chuck is the Kanye of Althouse and is much appreciated by none other than This Guy.

Rusty said...

J. Farmer said...
Charter schools are fine enough for people whose kids are stuck in shitty schools, but overall they're about as useless as most other education reforms. The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents.


The children take after the parents. We have to realize, at some point, that not all children are capable of learning.

Skeptical Voter said...

Look she likes charter schools; she also likes Common Core. So, like most people, that's a mixed bag. But charter schools, for better or worse, let parents try to separate those who are interested in an education(the wheat) from the chaff. I wouldn't care if it took combined extra curricular courses in Zulu and yoga to get parents interested in their child's school. That parental interest and involvement, more than anything else, makes a K-12 school great. If the parents don't give a fig about the school, why should their children?

gspencer said...

Public teacher unions being lowered even more. But never low enough IMO.

Unions, "When school children pay union dues, then we'll consider considering their interests. Until then, . . ."

Bruce Hayden said...

Anyway, Common Core is just fine as an idea, nearly all the Euros, Japan, Korea, Singapore etc. have this sort of thing. The real problem is whats in and whats out of Common Core, and who decides. That is the sticky bit.

I think we will eventually see the left hating Common Core and the right defending it.


The problem I see with Common Core is that it allows unelected bureaucrats in DC to control curriculum nation wide. And, when you have leftists running the Dept. of Ed, you get leftist curriculum shoved down the throats of students nation wide.

Michael K said...

"Michael, you really don't want to get me started on ed schools. :)"

I feel the same way. What happened to Ed schools is that women who went into teaching, like my first wife, were in the upper quintile of college students in 1962.

By 2000, they were in the bottom quintile and girls were going to medical school or law school, like my oldest daughter. My ex-wife wound up a bank VP after our divorce. In 1993, she got laid off in a bank merger and that was when Pete Wilson was expanding teachers in California. It was hilarious. She had a lifetime credential so she went back to teaching (after 30 years) as a sub until she got another bank job. She could not stop talking about how lazy and stupid the teachers were. After about 6 months she got a job with the FDIC and moved on. Her principal kept telling her how much he wanted her to stay. She saw him in the store a few months later and he came up to her and begged her to come back.

I didn't envy him that job. She was teaching in a middle class school and the teachers would make fun of the kids in the teachers' break room. She complimented a second grade teacher on how well she prepared kids to read. The teacher burst into tears. No one had ever complimented her on her teaching.

Much the same thing happened with nurses.

traditionalguy said...

HELP! I am trapped in a Disney cartoon movie with grandchildren. Let's hope Moana is not Common Core quality.

Michael K said...

"The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents. "

My grandchildren got the chance to move to a charter school this year and everyone is ecstatic. The difference is astounding.

I wish I could afford to send them to private schools but the tuition has gone through the roof. I sent my kids to private schools but tit is about $25,000 per kid per year now. A friend and I were talking two weeks ago. His grandkids go to private school in Pasadena. $37,000 for preschool. I can't afford it.

Vouchers should also be on her agenda.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Y'all can start up again play in' "Cocky" by Kid Rock when I get me my damn keyboard fired up.

I'll allow it.

EDH said...

Fernandinande beat me to it...

"Are we not men?"

We are Devos

General Boy: Come in, Booji Boy. You're late. Have you got the papers the Chinaman gave you?

Booji Boy: Here it is, Dad. Is it a surprise?

General Boy: Yes, Booji. "In the past, this information has been suppressed, but now it can be told. Every man, woman, and mutant on this planet shall know the truth about de-evolution."

Booji Boy: Oh, Dad, we're all DEVO!

Bruce Hayden said...

Charter schools are fine enough for people whose kids are stuck in shitty schools, but overall they're about as useless as most other education reforms. The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents.

Funny thing is that charter schools are most popular in the worst neighborhoods, with dumpest, laziest, parents. Except that for many of them, they know that their schools suck big time, and want better for their kids. Even many of the least educated, dumbest, laziest, etc.

One of the striking things to me was how condescending so many educators are to the parents of their kids. My old secretary had three kids go through a large school district, none of them actually graduating (getting GEDs instead, within months of being thrown out in HS). She was so frustrated by the education experts, who invariably talked down to her, telling her what her kids needed (to be thrown out?) Etc. She didn't have a college degree, and they did, often including multiple Ed degrees (which we all know are pretty bogus). I was thinking at the time that I wouldn't have stood for it - but then both the mother of my kid, and myself, each had 2 (real, earned) graduate degrees, knew that we were smarter than they were, and knew what was good for our kid better than they did (and, then sent the kid to private school, where this was never an issue). The point is that it is very hard to be assertive about the education of your kids when the professional educators refuse to consider your views because they consider themselves so much smarter and better educated. It is very disheartening. And, hence, much of the impetus behind charter schools.

It would be one thing if the educators were truly that smart, well trained, and worried about the kids they were supposed to be educating. But, they really aren't. Being government employees, many of them are more worried about how much they earn, how little they work, how secure their jobs are, and how good their pensions are - even if it ultimately bankrupts their school districts. Little different from other government employees - think of the DMV being tasked to educate your kids. Not an appealing thought.

khesanh0802 said...

@Quastor - if you're around today. I missed your link to Katie Hopkins yesterday and caught up with it today. Marvelous. I don't know who the CNN person was, but wow what a beating. The Brits still know how to argue.

clint said...

"Michael K said...
"The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents. "

My grandchildren got the chance to move to a charter school this year and everyone is ecstatic. The difference is astounding.

I wish I could afford to send them to private schools but the tuition has gone through the roof. I sent my kids to private schools but tit is about $25,000 per kid per year now. A friend and I were talking two weeks ago. His grandkids go to private school in Pasadena. $37,000 for preschool. I can't afford it.

Vouchers should also be on her agenda."


What's driving the cost of private schools? Is it just that in the "bad old days" the private schools were mostly Catholic and subsidized by the church (and the fact that nuns don't demand union wages and benefits)? Or has there been a huge increase in regulatory overhead, like in the public schools?

damikesc said...

At this point, lay off Chuck. He didn't like Trump. Fine. I can appreciate his concerns. Don't agree, but I get it. This constant harping is up there with the "Professor, you voted for Obama".

In the end, I suspect Chuck will find some of his concerns unfounded and we will likely see that some are quite legitimate (his waffling on climate change --- worrisome). Chuck isn't an enemy here.

Also, Nikki Haley, who I do like, seems like an odd choice for UN --- but if Israel wants to know if Trump is on their side, I doubt they will find a bigger advocate than her. She killed off BDS nonsense here.

I hoped the Dept. of Ed. would be abolished right away but let's face it - doing so does require a plan. So perhaps it's better to appoint an charter school advocate and general radical.

There's an argument for that. The most effective strategy to kill off a department, to me, would be showing that it is really redundant.

TWW said...

The Federal Government does very few things well and most of those by necessity: Provide for the common defense; Promote the general welfare (in a very limited sense, e.g. the National highway system). Education is not one of those things. Generally speaking, the closer the Government is to the people, the more accountable it is and visa versa. Education is a prime example.

Any Secretary of Education choice whose first and only job is not the orderly closure of the Education Department and the disbursement of whatever critical functions, if any, it supervises, is a bad choice.

The Drill SGT said...

AprilApple said...
Remember when Obama, as a thank-you to the corrupt teachers unions, killed the DC voucher program that helped low income black children escape failing DC public schools?


bonus addition:

Obama sent his kids to Sidwell Friends, but killing the vouchers meant that poor black kids could nt attend

PPS: Sidwell has always been non-compliant with Michelle's draconian lunch agenda.

sample lunch next week:

Chicken Noodle Soup
BLT Chopped Salad
Chicken Tarragon Salad
All Natural Beef Hot Dogs
Veggie Dogs
Brats & Sauerkraut
Baked Beans
Baked French Fries

Pineapple

buwaya puti said...

Parochial schools are much cheaper to run than public schools, generally.
Even in San Francisco today you are talking @$5000-6000/kid average for parochials vs $11K/kid+ or ++ for public.
But the reason they are comparable is real estate is likewise free in both cases, public land vs Archdiocese land, which is not costed out vs imputed return on land value, and which, usually, the church has owned since the 19th century. This would be a lot in SF of course.
Capital costs are also generally handled by donations/charity.
Public schools capital is from municipal bonds, etc.
Other types of private schools dont get "free" land, for the most part.
Part of the complication of costs of public schools is the massively expensive special ed mandates, operated as inefficiently as can be managed, which eats up not just specifically allocated funds but also much of the public schools general fund. Other countries dont do this, its a US mania.

buwaya puti said...

Nikki Haley is smart. UN envoy gives her a national profile and regular national attention. She wouldn't get that as SC governor. She already has the gravitas of executive experience as governor, now she needs name recognition/exposure.
She is ambitious.

eric said...

I would say they are going to ratchet up the hate on Trump to 11, but, they are already there. Where do they have left to go?

Anything short of Trump rounding people up and putting them into camps will be seen as mainstream behavior from him.

They're screwed.

The only thing I see helping them is maybe the media. In the past most of us believed the media.

If we saw hate crimes being committed in the media, we assumed they must be happening, even though we weren't personally seeing it.

If the media shows us story after story after story of children being hurt by DeVos policies, people may think, "Not my kid. My kid has it great. But maybe I shouldn't be selfish and should realize it's bad because it's happening to others."

Will be interesting, that's for sure.

David said...

"A massive loss for public school teachers unions."

Let's hope it turns into a gain for the school kids. As a former teacher, and father to a teacher and a former teacher, I know how hard the job is. Unfortunately the bureaucracies are probably more of an impediment than the unions, so there's that to fix too.

AJ Lynch said...

DOE currently spends about $125 billion per year. In raw numbers that represents about $2,400 per year for every student in grade 1-12.

i think all but $5 Billion should be given to the states as block grants to use as they see fit and the $5 billion should go to developing and maintaining and publishing really thorough school stats by city and by state using standardized tests and graduation rates and state spending info.

The problem with my proposal is a good amount of the $125 Billion [I believe] goes to school lunches etc which is probably a sacred cow at this point. Btw, is the term sacred cow politically incorrect nowadays?

Michael K said...

"There's an argument for that. The most effective strategy to kill off a department, to me, would be showing that it is really redundant."

When Nixon appointed Rumsfeld to head OEO, Rumsfeld protested that he had voted against it in Congress. Nixon said, "That's why I want you to run it. If you see a good project, go ahead and support it but the bad ones just let them died."

That's not a perfect quote because I can't find my Rumsfeld book right now.

On the cost of private schools. Church schools, like my old high school in Chicago, are on church land and that helps.

The newer ones need a champion to get them going and we had one in a guy named Father Ernest Sillers, who was a retired Episcopal priest who founded a bunch of Orange County schools in the 80s.

In 1975, he was retired and living with Aldine in a cottage in Laguna Beach. The bishop of the Diocese of Los Angeles knew there were people in the growing community of San Juan Capistrano who wanted an Episcopal church. He asked Father Sillers if he would consider being a temporary priest-in-charge to start the church.� Father Ern said yes and St. Margaret of Scotland Episcopal Church began, first meeting in homes, then at Marco Forster Junior High School, and, in 1979, at the La Novia Avenue site where it is now.

In October 1979, St. Margaret's Episcopal School was founded with 79 students in temporary structures.� The following year, the student population doubled. By 1986, a 12th-grade class had graduated.


My kids started there in 1981 and the school was mostly in trailers. It grew and grew and now looks like a college campus. The tuition I don't even want to know.

It was begun with a bunch of doctors' kids and we built it. When it was almost finished, Father Sillers moved on and started another school called, St John's Episcopal School, where my middle daughter went for a while.

Then, he started another school called St Anne's School, where my youngest daughter went for a while. The parents messed up St Johns and St Annes so he moved on again and founded, St Mary and All Angeles School, where my youngest went through the last elementary grades.

He had a cadre of great teachers who moved with him and got things running. All of this he did after he was 71 years old and "retired."

Those people don't just appear. He founded all these schools in about a 15 year period and finished when he was 85.

When I was first interested, the Catholic priests were not and thought schools were a money drain. It took Father Sillers to show them how to do it and now there are quite a few but property has gone out of sight.

My two youngest daughters graduated from Santa Margarita Catholic High School, which was on land donated by real estate developers and looks like another college. Carson Palmer the Arizona and SC quarterback graduated from there with my middle daughter.

These schools are all much more expensive than they were when my kids went there.

Michael K said...

One cute anecdote to Father Sillers, at the time my kids went to St Margaret's, a third of the students were Jewish. Father Sillers would go to all the bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs.

mockturtle said...

My daughters both went to private/parochial schools until high school. Using some inheritance money I had, I also sent my grandchildren to private school until the funds ran out. It would be nice if all kids could have this advantage. IMHO, public schools have utterly failed [not entirely their fault] so we need to offer alternatives. As Trump has said regarding other issues, what do we have to lose?

dda6ga dda6ga said...

To all of the above/below:

You can try but you cannot defeat the Bell Curve

Birches said...

Yeah I'm sure those kids who benefited from charters and vouchers really think the NEA is looking out for them...

Big Mike said...

Note to those of us commentators who are disappointed that Trump can't eliminate the Department of Education at the stroke of his pen, he probably can't. I imagine that there's quite a bit of federal legislation on the books that specifically names the Department of Education, and probably a specific office within the Department of Education. All of those laws need to be examined and a bill to remove the Department of Education will have to tediously list all of the changes to existing laws that need to be enacted as part of the abolition. Just finding and listing them, much less the squabbling over what to do about them (Reallocate to a new agency? Which one?) will consume years.

Bureaucracies never shrink.

Meanwhile can anyone explain how to fix American education without breaking the teachers unions? I'm not in favor of breaking unions just to break unions (my grandfather walked twenty-something miles to join his union), but dammit these are our kids.

exhelodrvr1 said...

The most important thing for any bureaucracy is to protect the bureaucracy. The second most important thing is to grow the bureaucracy. Completing the intended mission is no higher than number three

Michael K said...

More important than the DoE is the Office of Civil Rights which has been doing much of the mischief.

For example.

Gahrie said...

Charter schools are fine enough for people whose kids are stuck in shitty schools, but overall they're about as useless as most other education reforms. The problem is dumb, lazy students. And their often equally dumb, lazy parents.

Charter school are the best method of escaping from dumb, lazy students and their dumb, lazy parents.

You can try but you cannot defeat the Bell Curve

In order to defeat it, you have to acknowledge it. At least 75% of the problems in education come from an unwillingness to deal with unpleasant demographics.

Gahrie said...

The easiest thing to do, that would have a major impact on the futures of our students?

Dump "college for all" and bring back vocational education in a major way.

Unknown said...

Why exactly should normal Americans not have choice in schools? Also the education in this country, ESPECIALLY inner city... SUCKS.

hallelujah if it is blown up for vouchers. One of the absolute greatest thing that could happens to the inner cities. The education labor unions who have failed miserably for generations and doomed millions to a life of poverty and crime should be ashamed. Millions of ruined young people's lives are on their hands.

khesanh0802 said...

I think schools should be controlled at a more local level than through DC. On the other hand I think we do need some standards in this country and I am not sure how you establish meaningful standards for 50 states -but I do bet that it can be done. When I was a kid my summer friends from NY were always talking about the need to pass the Regents Exams to graduate High School. I don't know how rigorous they were, but they certainly had my friends' attention.

The big winners in the charter schools (from a political perspective) are going to be the Hispanics. Generally you have a two parent family and much more solid family relationships than poor Blacks currently do. If the Rs want to create outreach to Hispanics I would think school choice/vouchers would be a great mechanism. As for poor inner city blacks charter schools/vouchers appear to be the only answer to ending the current cycle of failure.

As for disbanding the DOE: it would be nice, but in order to combat the teacher's unions you need to have some leverage and the DOE provides plenty of leverage. Look at the impact of the "Dear Colleague" letters on campus sexual "assault" and bathroom use. Turn that same power on the unions and we may make some progress. The education unions are basically national unions. It may take a national force to put them in their place.

khesanh0802 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khesanh0802 said...

@ Gahrie I think we need to look at the German system of apprenticeships for kids who are not going on to college. Those of us who live in the real world know that not everyone is cut out, or wants, be computer engineer. Doesn't mean you're stupid, or a non-contributor, it just means you have other skills and interests.

Genny Martin said...

My daughter was failing a Tucson Unified School District high school. I talked to all of her teachers (taking a day off work) and then accompanied her one day from class to class (taking a day off work).
I saw her watching movies, being given crossword puzzles to solve, and listening to a history teacher (football coach) read from a book.
The next day I enrolled her in a charter school. 3 months later she graduated early, with As and Bs and she was a different kid.
Admittedly, the gangbbangers and drug dealers enrolled there scared the shit out of her, but she is now a very conservative mother of 2 and I don't regret sending her there at all.
If public schools loose their prominence, count me a fan.

Genny Martin said...

I am not saying that the worst kids attend charter schools. Not at all. The kids that went there just didn't fit the standard drone type people.
I talked to some of them, at the bus stop out front. They were just regular kids that didn't fit into the mold that secondo nary school graduates are groomed to deal with. Regular teens, you know?
I wish I had invited them to come to my house to see a tight family having fun and just talking about shit. I wonder where they are now?

Genny Martin said...

Ann, I know you mean well. But you don't live like we live. And I know you know this.
That is why I like your writing so much!

wildswan said...

The issue of behavior in school should be revisited. At present public schools have to keep all children in regular classrooms and this can be huge expense and damage learning by the other children. For instance in one school I know of a teacher's aide follows one student around all day simply to keep that student from sexually assaulting other students. That student costs an adult's salary in addition to regular education costs. Charter schools do not have to keep students whose behavior problems reach this level. They do not simply throw out students with problems but they don't try to "mainstream" kids with massive, intractable problems. One reason I despise the teachers unions is that the unions won't acknowledge that in the public schools mainstreaming students with massive continuous behavior problems prevents other students from learning and the unions won't lead a drive to look for another way to handle the problem.

Bruce Hayden said...

Why are private schools so expensive? Partly, because they can be - because they do such a better job at preparing kids for college, getting them in good colleges, etc.

And, partly because they provide more. My kid's private school had a class size of maybe 90, and more AP classes than any except for one public school (with a class size > 1000) in the state. Also, they run enough teams that everyone gets to play almost whatever sport they want (and athletics, mostly organized sports, are mandatory). I think that they were running six volley ball teams, three women's and three men's basketball teams, etc. In most schools, only the most athletic get to play team sports. In my kid's private school, they all do. Smaller class size, and a lot more personal attention. SAT prep. Top notch college counselors. One of the benefits is that writing and oral presentations are pushed starting in maybe 2nd grade, all the way through high school, with a lot of personalized help. That takes a lot of teachers' time, but is invaluable in college, and, we are finding, in grad school.

Of course, we only had the one kid, which was affordable. If we had had as many as Dr. K had, we probably would have gone the same route as he did - parochial school (indeed, Condi Rice, a Presbyterian, graduated from the same Catholic school my kid went to from K-2).

Genny Martin said...

I am so proud of my kids even though they didn't go to college. My son tested at college level in middle school and was assiduously recruited by the Air Force.
They are both happy and side am I.
I am content. Why do so many people on the left want me to not be.
Baffled, am I.

Rusty said...

Genny Martin

Some of the most bigoted, ignorant people I know have degrees. A highly overrated accessory. Learn a skill and learn it well and you'll always be in demand.

Rob McLean said...

(I am a) Michigan football fanatic.

Well, I guess you're not all bad, Chuck.

But they're not beating the School Down South on Saturday, not without a real quarterback.

Joe said...

Step 1: Approve Betsy DeVos and Ben Carson

Step 2: Make them unemployed by eliminating their entire organizations.

Martin said...

Anyone that the NEA and AFT oppose so strenuously must have many good qualities.