September 12, 2016

What do we know about the 9% of voters who are under age 25?

"Pollsters have trouble reaching them, and they’re often excluded when a survey breaks out its results by group," reports FiveThirtyEight.
But new SurveyMonkey data (shared with FiveThirtyEight) suggests that Clinton is winning under-25 voters by half as much as Obama did.... [O]lder millennials are more likely to back her. Among voters ages 25 to 35, Clinton is leading 46 percent to 24 percent over Trump, with Johnson at 18 percent and Stein at 7 percent.

Are younger millennials simply more Republican-leaning? It doesn’t seem so. In fact, under-25 voters are more likely than any other age group to approve of the job Obama is doing as president....

Under-25 voters aren’t backing Trump in unusually large numbers. Instead, they’re either backing a third-party candidate or saying they’re undecided....

95 comments:

mikee said...

Approve of the job Obama is doing as President?

So it is true, that the young are idiots. But maybe I'm biased, as I remember the shambles of the Nixon resignation and the Carter Presidency, and can compare Obama's handling of his terms in office to other, less horrible, administrations.

AprilApple said...

I spoke with a young girl in my family (she's 27?) and she says Trump is a racist. She doesn't like Hillary - but will probably vote for her.

This is the sad reality. It also explains why Hillary is trying to harvest the "Trump is a racist" vote.

YoungHegelian said...

My (very) anecdotal experience of this age group is that they are:

1) politically engaged & thus already decided from the git-go (the minority)
2) apolitical & despairing that any of the above will actually help them in any way (the majority).

YMMV.

Nonapod said...

It's not some great revelation that the 18-24 set will overwhelmingly vote for "none of the above" this election (that is, they'll either not vote at all or vote for Stein or Johnson). It's really sort of funny that all this effort is put forth to elucidate the obvious.

SteveR said...

In some ways the young are incredibly smart, very tech-savvy and open minded. But they are still very peer oriented.

To many of them voting for HRC is the cool thing to do. So much for being smart.

Hunter said...

Among people younger than myself (I'm 35, the main range is 22-28) I see tons of libertarians. Of course this is prone to sample bias but my impression is very few young people are "conservatives" and instead they are politically split between progressive and libertarian.

Often tending toward the fringes of those movements, i.e., the progressives are full-bore tumblrista cultural Marxists and the libertarians may swing from classically liberal to minarchist/ancap.

Levi Starks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brando said...

It explains why Trump seems to be stuck in the low 40s and Hillary in the mid 40s, with over 10% going to third parties. A large contingent is turned off, mostly among the younger generation.

Gabriel said...

@SteveR: young are incredibly smart, very tech-savvy

I personally have seen no evidence of this. I have seen that they are avid consumers of electronics that older generations developed and made very easy for them to use, but I have encountered very few of them who understood how any of it worked. Furthermore when their magic boxes break, they have nothing to fall back on.

Henry said...

Ms. Clinton's dilemma is that the easiest way to attack Trump is with negative advertising, but the easiest way for her to lose is by failing to GOTV. The more she goes negative, she more she reminds Sanders and Obama supporters why they didn't vote for her.

Roughcoat said...

I work with men and women in their twenties, nearly all of them University of Chicago students. My impression: we inhabit different planets. Maybe different universes. Communication between us is merely functional. They're not interested in anything I have to say and, to be fair, I'm not interested in anything they have to say. They think I'm old and in the way and I think they're dumber than a box of rocks and twice as immature. I think they're pussies, most of them. And you know what? I'm right.

I'm content with this situation. It's the way of world. Don't mean a thing. Drive on.

mockturtle said...

I always love the term 'data suggests'. Being a former researcher, I can properly infer that no real conclusions can be drawn from these data. OTOH, most people, and especially the media, take is as fact.

eric said...

But new SurveyMonkey data (shared with FiveThirtyEight) suggests that Clinton is winning under-25 voters by half as much as Obama did

This shouldn't go unnoticed. Half as much? That's actually a large amount. 4% of the voters that would normally vote for you but are going third party instead?

Obama and Bill Clinton were cool. They were able to go in late night TV and impress college kids all over the nation, enough to get them out to vote. Hillary doesn't have that cool factor. She doesn't play saxophone or dance like Obama.

Losing 4% is a big deal but it feels like 538 tried to downplay it by saying they weren't voting for Trump.

Henry said...

This run-of-the-mill anti-Hillary story is nothing special, but the closing line is spot on.

Gabriel said...

@mockturtle:I always love the term 'data suggests'.

You are right, of course: data does not by itself suggest anything. It has to be interpreted correctly in light of other data.

The "data suggests" formulation is a sign of someone wanted to be relieved from thinking.

Ann Althouse said...

If they're so into data, why don't they know that "data" is plural?

Kate said...

Two of my three under-25 voting Millennials were big for Bernie. Very engaged, got out to vote. When Bernie conceded to Hillary, their interest in this election dropped to nothing. I see no sign they plan to vote for anyone.

Todd said...

Gabriel said... [hush]​[hide comment]
@SteveR: young are incredibly smart, very tech-savvy

I personally have seen no evidence of this. I have seen that they are avid consumers of electronics that older generations developed and made very easy for them to use, but I have encountered very few of them who understood how any of it worked. Furthermore when their magic boxes break, they have nothing to fall back on.

9/12/16, 11:43 AM


That has also been my experience. To me it looks (feels?) like an overall lack of curiosity about "things". Oh they can likely explain to you for hours about the Kardashians or some such but they don't know how to change a car tire or even where the spare and jack are (I know as I have assisted a fair number of "stranded" young adults with flats). They seem to just expect hardware "stuff" to work (be it cars or toaster-ovens or computers) and have no concept of "maintenance" or trouble-shooting.

Sad really.

Roughcoat said...

It's a collective noun that takes a singular verb. "Data suggests" is correct.

George Grady said...

"Data" may be plural in Latin, but in English it's no more plural than "rice" is.

Yancey Ward said...

I would predict that turnout among those 18-30 will decline significantly compared to both 2008 and 2012. I think Clinton also will do more poorly among those who do turnout to vote in that age range. Obama was "cool" and "hip", McCain and Romney were not. In this election, the "cool" and "hip" tag only applies to the two major independent candidates, but between Trump and Clinton, I would argue that Trump is "hipper" and "cooler" candidate. So, I predict Clinton loses a lot of support from this demographic compared to Obama, but obviously will still win it overall.

Also, the 18-30 demographic from 2008 will be the 26-38 demographic today. Again, Clinton isn't going to perform as well as Obama did with this group in 2008 and 2012, but they might have a higher overall turnout than they did in 2008 and 2012, so a smaller margin might be made up on volume.

mockturtle said...

Whether used as a singular or a plural noun, 'data suggests' does NOT mean 'data shows'.

I prefer to use data and media as plurals. Your mileage may vary.

Curious George said...

"AprilApple said...
I spoke with a young girl in my family (she's 27?) and she says Trump is a racist. She doesn't like Hillary - but will probably vote for her.

This is the sad reality. It also explains why Hillary is trying to harvest the "Trump is a racist" vote."

What, to change your family from Probable to Certain?

Todd said...

Yancey Ward said... [hush]​[hide comment]
I would predict that turnout among those 18-30 will decline significantly compared to both 2008 and 2012. I think Clinton also will do more poorly among those who do turnout to vote in that age range. Obama was "cool" and "hip", McCain and Romney were not. In this election, the "cool" and "hip" tag only applies to the two major independent candidates, but between Trump and Clinton, I would argue that Trump is "hipper" and "cooler" candidate. So, I predict Clinton loses a lot of support from this demographic compared to Obama, but obviously will still win it overall.

Also, the 18-30 demographic from 2008 will be the 26-38 demographic today. Again, Clinton isn't going to perform as well as Obama did with this group in 2008 and 2012, but they might have a higher overall turnout than they did in 2008 and 2012, so a smaller margin might be made up on volume.

9/12/16, 12:12 PM


And this poll fails to take into account Clinton's largest demographic, the dead. They are an extremely loyal constituency with nearly 100% of those that do turn out, voting party line D up and down the ticket. No conservative think-tank has yet been able to determine what it is about being deceased that causes one to so overwhelmingly and consistently vote Democrat. It must be something about the afterlife that has yet to be fully explained to those still living. Senior management within the DNC expect turnout for the deceased this election to exceed that of all prior elections and believe that will be enough to put her over the top. Some even speculate that were Hillary to inadvertently join that specific demographic prior to election day, that could cause turnout among the deceased to increase by 200% or more resulting in a Hillary landslide. Others are also rooting for that possibility in the hopes of having Hillary set two political milestones; the first female President and the first deceased [prior to election] President. Talk about being inclusive! They fully expect that this would result in a court challenge by the RNC but expect that the Supreme Court will hold that not having a pulse does not disqualify someone from holding high office. Biden has already shown that not having a brain is not disqualifying from being VP so precedent has been set.

Exciting times!

jdniner said...

Was it here I read the article that the younger the voter is the less they are interested in individual liberties. They are more interested in common groupthink control taught in the school systems.

jdniner said...

Millennials are full of emptied headed notions on how to save the world. Hyper sensitive to micro aggression's. I just mentioned Europe as a standard to one and they almost had a mental breakdown. Social change plus immaturity is a toxic harmful mix. Colleges must be full of them.

mockturtle said...

So true, jdniner at 12:42 and 12:59! Heaven help us!

AJ Lynch said...

uh that they are pretty much uninformed?

Chris Low said...

The three voting-age under 25s in my house do not identify as Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican. They are skeptical of all four terms. Two of three supported Sanders and are angry at Hill for stealing the nomination from him. And Trump is neither Republican nor Conservative. He's like Bloomberg, a center-left Democrat who ran as a Republican because he could not run as a Democrat.

Big Mike said...

The inability of the Millennials to make the connection between Democrat economic policies and the fact that they graduated from college with huge debts but cannot get good jobs is startling.

MountainJohn said...

I think it's important to differentiate in this age group between those who received a social science/liberal arts college education, and those that attended a STEM program or did not go to college. The difference in their outlooks can be profound.

The "Trump is a racist" response comes as a default from the first bunch.

As Oscar Wilde was reputed to say, "You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into."

AJ Lynch said...

Weather girl on radio this morning said when she kept seeing "deplorables" used on twitter, she had to google it to see what the hubbub was about. So yes, the young are under-informed for the most part and it does not help the matter when the media also embargoes news that is not good for Dems.

tim in vermont said...

I am privy to the voting preferences of three millenials, two are going to vote for the Libertarian, as will my wife and I (If she voted for Hillary, I was going to cancel her vote by voting for Trump) Thankfully she is not going that way.

The other most likely simply will not vote. The Democrats and Republicans have not made a great impression on this generation. All the millenials I knew backed Bernie. I think we need to get the third parties into a matching funds, place at the debate position.

tim in vermont said...

How much of student debt is due to regulatory bloat imposed by the govt which forces the universities into administrative bloat. You aren't in compliance if you can't prove you are in compliance, so create another department! It's like the old B.O.A.T for boat, "Break Out Another Thousand" except it's more like "Break Out Another Million" for university regulations.

The Democrats prey on the young.

tim in vermont said...

I think the sexual predator in chief getting an office in the White House actually bothers Millenials, who aren't as cynical as older Democrats yet.

Big Mike said...

Make that "depressing" as well as "startling."

SteveR said...

@Gabriel and Todd

I have three daughters ages 26, 23 and 20. So I am only seeing a reality. Tech savvy and smart is an actual fact although we older folks think not knowing how to change a tire, or write code for your TRex IBM means something in 2016.

So yes, they are under-informed but the problem overall is the stupidity of the Republicans -- not a new problem. Even they can see that.

tim in vermont said...

Tech savvy and smart is an actual fact although

If by "tech savvy" you mean they can work the buttons on devices created for them by others, sure, and if by "smart" you mean generally agree with you. I can't argue because if you get to use your own definitions, it's hard to be wrong.

If by "tech savvy and smart" you mean they have a solid handle on the linear algebra so many of their cool games depend upon, for example, then I kind of have to disagree.

MadisonMan said...

Two of my three under-25 voting Millennials were big for Bernie

Yes, one of mine was also, big-time. (One friend from HS actually worked for Bernie -- a paid position! And the kid went to several rallies out of town) Lukewarm at best for Hillary, no enthusiasm at all -- but very enthusiastic for Russ.

Kid #2 -- I don't even know if this one is registered to vote.

Birkel said...

We know they're roughly as wise as a UW Law Professor in 2008, who shall remain nameless.

victoria said...

So what you're saying is that the under 25's are smart, savvy, and can spot a crap candidate (or should i say candidates) a mile away.


Vicki from Pasadena

SteveR said...

Tim,

Linear Algebra is a trade they pay others to learn, just like putting together a car on a 1950s assembly line. Working the buttons frees up time we used to spend waiting for our Word Perfect documents to download on our floppy disks. Not my definition actually, its their's, how much longer do you think we'll matter?

320Busdriver said...

Pollsters have trouble reaching them,

Pollsters?...Shit, I pay for his(19) cell phone and I'm lucky if I can get a response to a text in 15 minutes. Actual call? Fugetaboutit.

On the bright side he is studying economics and has an affinity for Sowell. So I feel we've done something right. I know he won't vote for the liar.

Birkel said...

MadisonMan:

If the friend were really as into Sanders as you allege, he would have turned down the paid position.

Cognitive dissonance.

David Begley said...

The racism rap on Trump has hurt him with this age group, IMO.

holdfast said...

The RNC and/or Trump should just throw big beer / pot bashes for millennials on college campuses on the day of the election. Even most of the left-leaning ones aren't really keen on HRC - just give them an excuse not to vote.

tim in vermont said...

Not my definition actually, its their's, how much longer do you think we'll matter?

If they are paying "others" to understand "their" technologies, it is only a matter of time before those "others" are paying them to mow their lawns. But young people have always been ignorant of the forces of history, and have no interest in the many examples history provides, with their naive faith in the idea that "it will be different this time."

If they are paying others to do math, then they don't know the basics of how to think. All they can do is manipulate the pre-packaged symbols and meanings provided for them by "others." In other words, they are completely manipulable. Not "smart."

tim in vermont said...

One thing they are smart enough to do though, Steve, is pull the wool over your eyes.

Skeptical Voter said...

Well one reason they are tough to reach is that they have their eyes riveted to their smart phones all day long. If I had a dollar for every under 25 year old I've seen walking across the street against a red light--head buried in phone and oblivious to what's going on around him or her--in my Los Angeles suburb,I could take a first class round trip flight to London.

How can you reach or poll someone who has the world tuned out?

Marie said...

The racism rap on Trump has hurt him with this age group, IMO.

The politically engaged youngsters are all about racism, as if it racism is an urgent concern. Racism, sexism, genderism, etc. The list is long. What is not on the list is economics.

The difference between tech-savvy kids and educated kids is important. They all grew up in schools that spent money on "technology". Schools yammered about the importance of technology, and PTAs raised money for technology. And all without educating them about technology. Someday, schools will include coding and logic but for now, teachers are still of an age when they are in awe of the iPhone and iPad. Social studies and science are all about global warming and about racism and the other -isms.

Again, what is not taught is economics.

Skeptical Voter said...

Well one reason they are tough to reach is that they have their eyes riveted to their smart phones all day long. If I had a dollar for every under 25 year old I've seen walking across the street against a red light--head buried in phone and oblivious to what's going on around him or her--in my Los Angeles suburb,I could take a first class round trip flight to London.

How can you reach or poll someone who has the world tuned out?

tim in vermont said...

Anybody who is properly educated in math, science, reading, and writing, and yes, the arts, can pick up coding pretty quickly. Without that foundation, they will always be just hackers, by hackers, I mean people who just keep trying stuff until they get the result they think is right. Kind of like trying random Instagram filters til they get a result they like.

Todd said...

Schools stopped educating a long time ago, like around the time "public" education became a thing. Individuals are a lot less invested in something that was handed to them versus something they had to work for.

Also, there are reams written on the roots of public education and what its design goals were (hint, it is hitting its intended goals and making "smart/educated" individuals was not on the list).

All the added school tech did was put another excuse on the list to why teachers are not educating any more, another "distraction". Just like "new math" and now "common core". Schools are now nothing but indoctrination/daycare centers for the majority of the youths of this country. They go from "free" daycare to $40K a year daycare that they get convinced to pay for themselves.

Idiocracy was not meant as a "how to" guide...

Marie said...

Anybody who is properly educated in math, science, reading, and writing, and yes, the arts, can pick up coding pretty quickly.

The company I work for is full of 50- and 60-yo coders. However did they get there without a Smartboard in the classroom??

Todd Galle said...

I've two in my household. The eldest is mid-20s and beginning in the working world. Started a new job today which required a button down shirt (!). Daughter a junior at college. He will vote Libertarian I believe, she won't be bothered. I work with millennials and agree with Roughcoat. We live in different worlds, and the vocabulary is insufficient to bridge the gap. This makes me glad that I work with museum collections rather than collections of people. No gate leg table ever gave me lip on my privilege, and no side chair ever called me racist. Besides, they let me make 17th Century English beer recipes every month on the company dime.

Harold said...

tim in vermont said...
I am privy to the voting preferences of three millenials, two are going to vote for the Libertarian, as will my wife and I (If she voted for Hillary, I was going to cancel her vote by voting for Trump) Thankfully she is not going that way.


Assume she's lying, which if she is a supporter of Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife, corrupt alcoholic enabler of her sexual predator husband, she is.

Vote for Trump. Cancel out her vote.

victoria said...


So what you're saying, 320busdriver, is that he is not voting for Trump.

Vicki From Pasadena

victoria said...

Curious George,

Don't punish her for being right, or correct.

Choices are just the worst in 40 years. Makes me not want to vote, but i will. Got to love Snoopy.

Vicki from Pasadena.

Robert Cook said...

Anyone who votes for Trump is an idiot.

Anyone who votes for Clinton is an idiot.

Bill Peschel said...

Anyone who votes for Clinton will reaffirm the status quo.

Anyone who votes for Trump will stop that, at least for four years.

Robert Cook said...

"The inability of the Millennials to make the connection between Democrat economic policies and the fact that they graduated from college with huge debts but cannot get good jobs is startling."

That you take it as a given that "Democrat economic policies" are significantly different from Republican economic policies, or don't seem to see that both parties are in thrall to the financial elites, or that it is this joint subjugation to these elites that has wrought the economic devastation to our country, is startling.

tim in vermont said...

Republicans don't wake up every morning with a new idea about how to regulate colleges.

Robert Cook said...

"Anyone who votes for Clinton will reaffirm the status quo.

"Anyone who votes for Trump will stop that, at least for four years."


Anyone who thinks Trump will not reaffirm the status quo is...misguided.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Robert, I think you should give Donald Trump a fresh look, for the sake of your own intellectual honesty. God forbid you actually vote for him, I don't expect miracles, but I think he represents something new that you should appreciate to a degree.

I frankly doubt you have the mental agility at your age, but try it. At least, compare and rate the candidates according to their relative merits and demerits. Just as an exercise, we all know you're voting for Gus Hall or Lenora Fulani, but just try it.

Bad Lieutenant said...

To wit,

see that both parties are in thrall to the financial elites

is his bag, baby!

And if you say No, even if he meant it and even if elected, the system will break him,

What do you think the system would do to the good Dr. Jill Stein?

Robert Cook said...

"What do you think the system would do to the good Dr. Jill Stein?"

Assuming the virtually impossible, that Jill Stein won election to the White House, I would be astonished if she were not stymied at every turn by establishment Washington, with the result she would fail in achieving anything.

Nonetheless, given that we know that no one in Washington pays the slightest heed to the wishes of the electorate--really, not the slightest, as they all serve the financial elites--we must all consider our votes as purely aspirational, and symbolic. She is someone whose stated goals greatly accord with with what I would like to see and think are necessary to turn our country away from impending collapse, and someone for whom I can cast my vote without feeling ashamed or used.

If Stein or another similar candidate were not on the ballot, I would simply not vote, as doing so--given our "choices" from the major parties--is to wittingly play the role of dupe and patsy in the great con in which we are all marks.

wildswan said...

The Millenials I know are tend toward being like Good Will Hunting. In the movie Will makes a long speech whose gist is that by being a member in good standing of this society he is a serial criminal - every move is a crime against blacks, against the planet, against peace leading on in inexorable sequence to fresh crime and then on to yet another crime. This is an deep life stance they have. So no politician can really win their allegiance and certainly not Hillary Clinton as they look at her in real time. She is the epitome of what they fear to become. But, they think, perhaps they should vote for her because Donald Trump is a racist (they hear from NPR). But Hillary is the very Spirit of Planet Destroyer, Deathstar sending out wither rays so that no one is ever young again - I think they see that. So then there they are in the Will Hunting dilemma. Turn on the video game.

Big Mike said...

@Cookie, anyone who pays attention your opinions is an idiot.

SteveR said...

Well my kids can understand these things, of that I am certain. One of them is a PhD candidate (last year) etc. They like the basics of the libertarian mindset. They know HRC is a fraud.

Knowing how to write an app is great, but believe me knowing how to use them is more important. Some of them are staring at their phones wasting time, but some of them are making money. The dynamics of the workplace requires flexibility and speed. I'm not blindly optimistic but my preconceived notions are often proven wrong. They aren't the rule but not that atypical.

Too bad they had to witness the two parties' chaotic primary season.

Jon Ericson said...

Knowing how to write an app is great, but believe me knowing how to use them is more important.

Truer words were never spoken.

Kathryn51 said...

My two millennials (25 yrs; boy/girl twins) were brought up to believe that Ronald Reagan was the best president evah and that Hillary and Bill Clinton are two of the most corrupt people to ever have power in this United States of America. I was able to shield them from the Monica slime, but 9/11 is not forgotten.

They will never, ever vote for the Hildebeast. They probably won't vote for Trump, but are still trying to decide if a protest vote for Gary J. is worth their time.

Most of their friends despise Hillary and Trump as one; some played with Bernie but believe Hillary stole her nomination. She lost this generation. Marco Rubio (my candidate after Walker) would have won this group in a landslide.

victoria said...

I suspect, Kathryn and StevenR, that they would find Trump as much of a fraud as they do Hillary, which he is.

I am actually pretty shocked that Ann is so into Trump. Now i don't like Hillary at all but I feel that Trump is totally putting on an act, he cares not for anyone but himself and his "empire". i suspect that his "empire" is not nearly as vast as he makes it out to be. I remember the horrible things he did in California to take over the golf course and then has pretty much abandoned it and the people who worked for him. Deplorable man. makes me gag

Vicki
Vicki

BN said...

I like millennials. Sometimes I can almost remember what it was like to be young.

tim in vermont said...

Hillary and Bill had this little scheme called Whitewater. What they would do is sell plots of land to people, and those people might make payments for years, and if they ever missed a payment, they lost not only the land, but all the payments they had made already were then gone.

So if that doesn't make you gag, I can't imagine that your disgust with Trump and not the Clintons is anything but partisan.

BN said...

But they still need to stay off my fuckin' lawn.

victoria said...

Tim,

Both make me gag. It has been verified that Trump cheated many thousands of hard working Americans out of their money when he refused to pay people for the work they did. Left them high and dry,declared bankruptcy and went on to the next scheme. Reminds me of Harold Hill, without the kindness and the good singing voice.


Vicki

Jupiter said...

wildswan said...
"The Millenials I know are tend toward being like Good Will Hunting. In the movie Will makes a long speech whose gist is that by being a member in good standing of this society he is a serial criminal - every move is a crime against blacks, against the planet, against peace leading on in inexorable sequence to fresh crime and then on to yet another crime. This is an deep life stance they have."

Yeah, right. They are the most moral generation in history. That's why they don't accept jobs from corporations. Except for the ones with good grades.

n.n said...

So, young millennials, in the majority, support class diversity (e.g. racism), female chauvinism, progressive wars, anti-native policies, social justice adventurism, trickle-up poverty, selective exclusion, disparate law, scientific mysticism, clinical cannibalism, and abortion rites. Negative progress. Degenerate.

narciso said...

meanwhile she's looted a hurricane shattered haiti, similarly helped do the same with nigerian warlords, was too busy shilling for business deals in libya, oligarchs in russia, the kingdom,

narciso said...

earthquake, but you get the point, the last eight years has left even less of an impression on their skulls full of mush,

tim in vermont said...

Right Vicki, they both make you gag, but here you are shilling for the woman who attacked the victims of her husband's sexual depredations as nuts and sluts.

I will not vote for either of them, but I promise you that everything you can say about Trump, you can say about Hillary. How many thousands of Libyans drowned in the Mediterranean, fleeing the hell that Hillary advocated for there, urged on by Sydney Blumenthal, who was being paid 10K a month by the Clinton Foundation to advise her to seek wars in Libya and to get involved in the war in Syria.

Kathryn51 said...

victoria said...
I suspect, Kathryn and StevenR, that they would find Trump as much of a fraud as they do Hillary, which he is.

I don't like Trump and I haven't decided who I will vote for (Trump or Johnson). Hubby doesn't like Trump, but will vote for him. My kids - they don't like Trump either (so proud of them!!) - but they know the Hildebeast is pure corruption. Both appalled by her comments regarding the "deplorables".

Still 2 months to go before they must decide - and leaving vote blank for President is ALWAYS an option)

David said...

We know that they are not reading this blog.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Oh "we" know as much as the Mettalica song starting out "ow wee oh, ohh oh ohhh, ow wee oh, oh ohhhh" duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh, nuhh, nu nu nu nuhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Struggle within.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Mettalica as my truth:

'Growing conspiracy,
Myself is after me,
Raging insanity,
Hear them calling,
Hear them calling me.'

Don't know if that's word for word, but every onal matter un-subatonic must yeild, simply must I say glee-adores-atly, Buckley.


You know the drill.

cumumulus.hillsdale.edu/Buckley

Guildofcannonballs said...

Can't , and won't let, anyone blame that on Jobs.


That dysfunction I own, n fact owwned it for whiles now.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Cumulus.hillsdale.edu

Guildofcannonballs said...

https://cumulus.hillsdale.edu/Buckley/

Dull.

Guildofcannonballs said...

cumulus.hillsdale.edu

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Oh it's easy for you to say, your Broncos won the Super Bowl last year and spanked the Panthers yet again.

."

And you are right.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Only 24 agin' akron' m'kay.

Annie said...

This is a depressing thread. One of my millenials, STEM degree and employed, is disgusted by all the candidates and probably will skip voting.

My other millenial, does not like the candidates either and is not sure what she is going to do. Her boyfriend, who is conservative, is beyond disgusted at the corruption that is Clinton, is trying to get her to vote Trump, who he's not crazy about, but compared to the Clinton Crime Family and it's promise to double down on Obama policies, it's a no brainer. Hillary terrifies him. Trump, we can survive.

Both of my kids would have voted for any of the other GOP candidates. Walker, Cruz, Rubio, were top of the list.

rcommal said...

FWIW (and I suspect, and accept, that most of the most tribal of any stripe and/or flavor will think it's not worth a tinker's dam):

Our kids ought not to be considered just as fodder for own speculations, especially when too many of us, I guess, think that they do not, well, um *think* (which notion is, btw, pure B.S.). Too many think that they don't think. Too many of us think that they don't think. Too many of us think that about them **simply and only** because they don't think like us. And we blame them for that. Which: Ha, Ha, Ha. What B.S.!!! What the hell are we thinking when we think that we are owed the thinking of others?

FTR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ1BWVHrLdw



Robert Cook said...

"My two millennials (25 yrs; boy/girl twins) were brought up to believe that Ronald Reagan was the best president evah and that Hillary and Bill Clinton are two of the most corrupt people to ever have power in this United States of America."

What you taught them was half correct.

However, there are today and always have been thoroughly corrupt people in places of power in the US, so I don't know by what metric you can determine they are among the "most corrupt ever," other than that you live in the same time as they.

William Chadwick said...

What do we know about the 9% of the voters who are under the age 25? I'll take a guess that at best, one percent of that nine percent have read a book (other than what they may be forced to in college, if they go to college) in the past few years. They probably have the grasp of economics of a Robert Cook, the historical perspective of a Lena Dunham or a Cher, and the reasoning ability of the banjo-playing kid in DELIVERANCE. In short, the perfect Democratic voters.