June 13, 2016

"Mateen’s father, however, called his son 'very dignified.'"

"In a video posted to Facebook shortly after midnight, Seddique Mateen... called the shooting 'tragic' but said his son was 'a good son and an educated son.' He said his son shouldn’t have carried out the massacre because 'God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality.' 'I don’t know what caused him to shoot last night... No radicalism, no... He doesn’t have a beard even. . . . I don’t think religion or Islam had anything to do with this.'"

From a Washington Post article titled "Orlando gunman 'cool and calm' during nightclub standoff with police," which also deals with the question of why the police waited so long — while living victims were bleeding — to storm the building. If the answer is that the man was calm, I really don't get it. First of all, there had been so many gunshots, and people were wounded who might have been saved. Second, he identified himself as a devotee of ISIS. When have such people ever stopped in the middle of a massacre? He wasn't a madman to be talked down. He was cool and calm.

I see that the mayor of Orlando, Buddy Dyer (D), said: "We’re dealing with something we never imagined and is unimaginable." Why didn't they imagine it?! It's absolutely imaginable.  It's even happened before. Is he just saying he didn't think his city would be the next one? That's absurd. Every city should imagine that it could have an incident like this. And wasn't there an imam in Orlando, speaking in public just last April, saying gay people should be killed (out of "compassion")?

92 comments:

rhhardin said...

It isn't hatred. It's self-respect and doing what the culture teaches you to admire.

Killing gays and Jews is doing something meaningful with your life.

A good reason to keep that culture out of the country.

rhhardin said...

The reason gays and Jews are the enemy is that Islam needs an enemy that explains why they're third world.

The scapegoat is always needed, Kenneth Burke pointed out long ago, and was not optimistic about things as a result.

Rick said...

'I don’t know what caused him to shoot last night... No radicalism, no... He doesn’t have a beard even. . . . I don’t think religion or Islam had anything to do with this.'"

I was just saying this is all a coincidental series of unfortunate events.

EDH said...

Althouse untangles just three of the many layers of the contortions of logic and rhetoric that have become necessary to support the preferred narrative.

Nonapod said...

Police and as well as the general populace are still adjusting to the new normal of ISIS. There are now enough data points to infer a clear modus operandi for ISIS mass shooting attacks, so hopefully next time there will be less hesitation on the part of the police. And hopefully more citizens will arm themselves.

chickelit said...

No radicalism, no... He doesn’t have a beard even. . . . I don’t think religion or Islam had anything to do with this.'

How many 9/11 hijackers had beards?

mccullough said...

The father is a moderate Muslim

chickelit said...

How many 9/11 hijackers had beards?

That raises the question of whether Mateen was closeted.

J2 said...

Yes

Why If he was barricaded in a restroom, was there no rescue of the injured from the dance floor. How many died in the 3 hours of the law enforcement stand down?

Allison said...

Don't you remember Columbine? Law enforcement personnel do nothing while they ensure everything is in place to make law enforcement feel safer. They take their surveillance footage and coordinate with other higher ups. They sniff for bombs and set up contact channels. They secure the perimeter.

This seems heartless, but Al Qaeda has a known tactic of setting up secondary attacks at the point and location where first responders arrive. Law enforcement is going to protect their own. Not doing so means no people willing to be first responders in the future.

This is yet another reason why considering an enemy waging war against you as a law enforcement matter is stupid and dangerous.

But hey, we can absorb another attack, right?

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Miriam said...

Yes, because when religious leaders, teachers, preachers, imams etc. say gay people shoulde be killed, they should be taken seriously by the powers that be. When public figures in mosques and churches advocate killing a segment of our society we, the general public need to sit up and take them seriously, they mean what they say.

Preacher says gays need to be put to death. Start at the :26 mark.

Roughcoat said...

From a Washington Post article titled "Orlando gunman 'cool and calm' during nightclub standoff with police," which also deals with the question of why the police waited so long — while living victims were bleeding — to storm the building.

Because police SWAT teams and such are bullshit militarized accoutrements that have all too often proved themselves ineffective and lacking competence to deal with the dire situations for which they are supposedly trained. Remember Columbine, when the police SWATs, all decked out in body armor and Kevlar helmets and black BDUs, and armed with full auto assault rifles, marched around outside the school, hup two three four!, in their fancy gear and did nothing while those little monsters inside murdered their fellow students and at least one of their victims bled out? Police departments around the U.S. are big into militarizing and playing soldier but when the shit hits the fan they don't do jack.

Yeah, it pisses me off. Can you tell?

tim in vermont said...

The problem is that the religion teaches them that they are to be privileged above all others, especially the men. Then they live here and aren't on top. They want to live among us like so many Medieval noblemen, with unquestioned rights over the unbelievers. When they aren't, it's an outrage to God.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." It has taken us some time to live up to that ideal, but we at least try to, these guys don't believe that that truth is self evident at all and teach their children that our founding principles are an abomination to God.

MayBee said...

Were any victims killed by the police?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Why didn't they imagine it?! It's absolutely imaginable. It's even happened before. Is he just saying he didn't think his city would be the next one? That's absurd. Every city should imagine that it could have an incident like this.

Because-------> Complacency. pleased, especially with oneself or one's merits, advantages, situation, etc., often without awareness of some potential danger or defect; self-satisfied:

Liberals, in particular, like to check off all the correct boxes and think that this has solved the world's problems. Diversity, check. Tolerance for the right groups, check. They express outrageous indignation at the incorrect groups, check. They march in cute protests with pretty signs. They virtue signal like crazy and imagine that their pointless meaningless actions have somehow made a difference.

Delusional in magical thinking. Thinking that if we all just get along everything will be unicorns and rainbows. Delusion in thinking that no one "really" hates us. Delusion in the idea that all that bad stuff can't/won't happen here. It is other people and foreign places far away that have these terrible things happen.

Delusion in denying the reality that ISLAM itself, the core beliefs and tenets are the problem. Islam itself is the core problem. The fact that some become radicalized and carry out the slaughter is incidental. The religion itself is incompatible with Western beliefs. Has always been and will always be so. It is delusional to deny this and delusional to deny the history of such.

This is why it is not imagined. They don't WANT to imagine it.

Until our "leaders" stop with the political correctness, virtue posturing, denial and delusion we are all in danger.

pm317 said...

Deport that mfer dad. First test of Trump's administration.

tim in vermont said...

Miriam is fighting a mind-guard action to hold on to her own troops. Nobody but the already invested will be swayed by that kind of argumentation.

Rick said...

Miriam said...
Yes, because when religious leaders, teachers, preachers, imams etc. say gay people shoulde be killed, they should be taken seriously by the powers that be. When public figures in mosques and churches advocate killing a segment of our society we, the general public need to sit up and take them seriously, they mean what they say.

Preacher says gays need to be put to death. Start at the :26 mark.


Rational people focus greater criticism on those whose threats are actually carried out. It's bizarre Miriam is proudly demonstrating her inability to make rational judgments.

EDH said...

Allison said...
Don't you remember Columbine? Law enforcement personnel do nothing while they ensure everything is in place to make law enforcement feel safer. They take their surveillance footage and coordinate with other higher ups. They sniff for bombs and set up contact channels. They secure the perimeter.

This seems heartless, but Al Qaeda has a known tactic of setting up secondary attacks at the point and location where first responders arrive. Law enforcement is going to protect their own. Not doing so means no people willing to be first responders in the future.


It's been widely reported that police tactics to mass shootings changed after Columbine:

Shoot first: Columbine tragedy transformed police tactics
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-19-columbine-police-tactics_N.htm

How Columbine Shaped Police Response To Shootings
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/21/157154275/how-columbine-shaped-police-response-to-shootings

Miriam said...

He calls for gay people's death based on Leviticus, which starts at the 2:23 mark, not the :26 mark. From my link @ 9:45 AM.

pm317 said...

So the dad is approving of what the son did just that he should have left it to God and not done it himself? What a scumbag!

Miriam said...

"Why don't they imagine it?"

Indeed.

LYNNDH said...

Authorities and talking heads keep trying to tie this shooter into ISIS, as if that is the only thing that makes him a terrorist, let along a "Muslim Terrorist". I matters squat if he had ties to ISIS, by a good number of Americans he is a Muslim and a Terrorist, QED Muslim Terrorist.

MayBee said...

Isn't one reason we keep being surprised because we keep pretending these attacks are something else?

Hassan was first secondary PTSD and then workplace violence, San Bernadino was due to someone being mean at work, Tsarnaevs because people didn't friend them. It's why people want Obama to say out loud what the problem is.

AprilApple said...

Can we deport this miserable SOB?

I don't want people like this in our country.

MayBee said...

When public figures in mosques and churches advocate killing a segment of our society we, the general public need to sit up and take them seriously, they mean what they say.

Preacher says gays need to be put to death. Start at the :26 mark.


I don't feel like watching whatever video you've dug up, but is there anyone here- or anywhere- defending this preacher?

Hagar said...

And the shooter was reported to wear a suicide vest. Turned out to be a "tactical vest" with pockets for ammo, but it could as well have been explosives for a BIG boom.

John said...

Why is the father still in the US? He is extremely anti-American, he has a TV program and an organization raising funds for our enemies, the Taliban.

Is he a citizen? Is he here legally?

Why?

John Henry

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ann Althouse said.... And wasn't there an imam in Orlando, speaking in public just last April, saying gay people should be killed (out of "compassion")?

Yeah, isn't that weird--you'd think something like that would have received more airplay, you know, maybe a national news item or two and even a boycott/protest type movement from pro-gay people, especially pro-gay people on the Left.

Really a mystery why that didn't happen, why instead it remained a small, local story. Truly a puzzler--why oh why would the Media decide something like that wasn't worth covering? A genuine enigma.

surfed said...

San Bernandino, Ft Hood, Orlando all support my theory that Southern California, Texas and Florida all suck the crazies out of the rest of the United States by centrifugal force. Pardon the black humour...

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Al Qaeda has a known tactic of setting up secondary attacks at the point and location where first responders arrive.

I think this tactic originated not long after warfare was invented. Its called an ambush.

These days the easiest way for a self-trained via the Internet terrorist working on their own to do this is to build a couple of IEDs and use them to setup a booby-trap or two.

Then, even if you are dead, the cops have to be cautious entering/clearing the building. So, even if the cops don't set off the booby-trap, killing some cops and any still living victims, you slow them down enough to allow the wounded to bleed out.

The Dad says his son wasn't all that religious. So What? If your ideology states that it is OK to use murder and torture to accomplish your ends then some of the people supporting your ideology are going to be people who like to murder and torture.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

John said...Why is the father still in the US? He is extremely anti-American, he has a TV program and an organization raising funds for our enemies, the Taliban.

Why would that be enough to get him deported, John? People like Ward Churchill and Bill Ayers have said and done much the same (or worse!) and not only are they still citizens in good standing, they've been praised by the Left! Why would a Muslim guy who expresses anti-American sentiment/sides with our enemy be treated any differently from any other famous Lefty who did the same? Jane Fonda's still a citizen, ain't she?

tim maguire said...

Buddy Dyer (D), said: "We’re dealing with something we never imagined and is unimaginable." Why didn't they imagine it?! It's absolutely imaginable.

He's just spewing bullshit from a list of approved phrases. It's all about the feelz, not the reality.

Roughcoat said...

It's been widely reported that police tactics to mass shootings changed after Columbine.

Evidently the Orlando SWATs didn't get the memo.

Larry J said...

Just speculation on my part, but early yesterday I read reports stating he may have been wearing a suicide vest. If the police believed he had a vest, going slow and trying to talk him down seems reasonable. Had he had such a vest and detonated it in the building, he could've killed a lot more people than he did. It's a difficult calculus - storm the building and risk him detonating an explosive device (real or imagined) or wait while some of the wounded bleed to death. We pay people to make those decisions for us. Sometimes, they decide wrong, at least when judged in retrospect.

We had active shooter training in my workplace last year. In the old days, people were told to not fight back and wait for the police. Now, we're taught to "Run, hide, or fight". Run to safety if you can. Hide if you can't run. And if all else fails, fight with whatever you have at hand including improvised weapons. I think some people were able to run to safety from that nightclub. Others tried to hide in the bathroom and, if the reports are accurate, were killed there. Apparently, no one tried to fight. This is sad because they could've easily overwhelmed him. This isn't blaming the victims in any way. Most people, in the face of mortal danger, probably wouldn't fight back either. We should. If he's going to shoot you anyway, you have nothing to loose by attacking him.

tommyesq said...

Miriam, I am unclear on what it is you propose to do - should we be taking both the preacher and the imam's language seriously or neither? Not looking to pick a fight, and I would hope that Christians take a negative view of such an espousal, I just want to see what conclusions you draw from this.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Also, he called 911 and pledged allegiance to ISIS. The cops on the scene know this, so there is a chance that he is wearing a suicide vest. In fact, you have people telling you he was wearing a suicide vest. Turns out they were wrong, but you have no way of knowing that.

So even though you know that people are bleeding to death inside, you have to consider that if he has a suicide vest and he detonates it when you rush in not only are some cops going to be killed/wounded, but so are any people still in the club.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Larry J beat me to it.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

MayBee said...I don't feel like watching whatever video you've dug up, but is there anyone here- or anywhere- defending this preacher?

Well MayBee, I'm going to be less than charitable and say that the Media (and the Left) did defend him, at the very least by omission. What I mean is that his comments were public and were a local news story, but somehow the Media decided that that story wasn't big enough or important enough to warrant widespread/national coverage. This is the same Media, understand, who felt it WAS a national story when some pizza restaurant owner responded to a hypothetical question regarding their degree of gay-friendliness (whether they'd cater a gay wedding, I think) the wrong way. Remember that? I do, because it was a national story--an outrage! Why was it a national story? Because the Media decided it should be. Why wasn't this guy's comments @an Orlando mosque a national story? Because the Media decided it shouldn't be.

That's how they defend, MayBee--they decide what to cover and what not to cover, and in doing to they provide "cover" for preferred groups (and enforce preferred narratives). So at the time, yes, the Media did defend this guy & his comments.

Original Mike said...

" I don’t think religion or Islam had anything to do with this."

Neither does our head-up-his-ass president.

Kep Hartman said...

Just all part of the Orwellian strategy of DoubleSpeak: never call something that is real what it is. This makes people crazy, of course. But crazy people are easier to control, eh?

Normal human mating behavior at colleges becomes "Rape Culture."

Hillary's corruption becomes "normal things a Sec of State does."

Terrorist attacks in Benghazi becomes "protests sparked by a video."

Trillion-dollar budget, and debt, becomes "investing in our future."

Insider-influence and overt bias by Google, FaceBook and Big Media to swing elections becomes "protecting from hate speech."

Marriage as known by societies the world over for thousands of years becomes "outdated cis-normative patriarchal pairing" and so must become open for sodomites and other queers.

And so, Islamic jihad becomes "actions of hate" or "workplace violence."

AprilApple said...

Miriam just proved that this killer of 50 innocents was not Islamic - he was a Christian.

She should renounce her Christianity right now.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

He's just spewing bullshit from a list of approved phrases. It's all about the feelz, not the reality.

Yep, if a city the size of Orlando doesn't have a contingency plan in place for just that situation (crazed gunman in crowded nightclub) then its police department isn't doing its job.

Mark said...

I wonder if the gunman was fasting for Ramadan.

Fernandinande said...

When I mentioned to my grillfiend that a muslim had shot up a homo bar, she immediately said "is he gay too?"

"An unclassified study from a military research unit in southern Afghanistan details how homosexual behavior is unusually common among men in the large ethnic group known as Pashtuns -- though they seem to be in complete denial about it."

Birches said...

About 6 weeks ago I gave up Althouse and Twitter on Sundays to better keep the Sabbath day holy. A quick login on Twitter this morning shows what a nice decision that was. This country is falling apart. I cannot understand why people respond to heartfelt sympathy with hatred and anger. I'm saddened by the "tolerant" crowd. My heart hurts.

Char Char Binks said...

There's nothing dignified about camel fuckers.

~ Gordon Pasha said...

I've always wondered why the government just doesn't put the mosques out of business. The Feds closed down the LDS Church in the late 1890s for practicing and advocating polygamy and the Supreme Court found it was within the power of the government to do so and escheated its assets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Corp._of_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints_v._United_States

This still looks like good law to me.

MayBee said...

Hoodlum- I was talking about the video Miriam dug up to deflect conversation about this murder of 50 people onto Christians

David Begley said...

MSM keeps calling this the largest mass shooting in US history.

It needs to be identified for what it is: The second largest Islamist attack on US soil.

mockturtle said...

Funny how even the abused ex-wife tries to steer the motive away from Islam.

M Jordan said...

"I see that the mayor of Orlando, Buddy Dyer (D), said: "We’re dealing with something we never imagined and is unimaginable." Why didn't they imagine it?! It's absolutely imaginable. It's even happened before."

Here's my editorial cartoon idea, in words.

1). An indistinguishable crowd at bottom of panel with cartoon talk-balloon overhead filled with PC nonsense.

2). An Islamic extremist terrorist enters with automatic weapon, aims, and blows up cartoon dialogue balloon.

John said...

Blogger HoodlumDoodlum said...

Why would that be enough to get him deported, John? People like Ward Churchill and Bill Ayers have said and done much the same (or worse!) and not only are they still citizens in good standing, they've been praised by the Left!

The answer is in the second sentence, they are citizens.

My question is whether the father is a citizen. If he is, unless there was fraud in the process, he is pretty secure here. If he is not, he can probably be kicked out for his activities.


I do take your point about Churchill and Ayers, though.

John Henry

jr565 said...

pm317 wrote:
So the dad is approving of what the son did just that he should have left it to God and not done it himself? What a scumbag!

Well, that's not that different than saying "Vengeance is mine, said the Lord" Namely, any sort of judgement will be doled out by the Lord, not by us.
But, he doesn't seem like he's really into letting heaven sort it out. Since he also seem to be a Taliban supporter. They CERTAINLY do not leave it up to God to punish people for not adhering to sharia

jr565 said...

"Why would that be enough to get him deported, John? People like Ward Churchill and Bill Ayers have said and done much the same (or worse!) and not only are they still citizens in good standing, they've been praised by the Left!"
Bill Ayers, got a job in education and teaches our kids to this day. And Obama worked with him and didnt bat an eye.

jr565 said...

Steven Crowder linked to an imam who put the lie to the idea that those who call for the death of gays are somehow extremists when he linked to this:

http://louderwithcrowder.com/moderate-islamists-admit-radical-islam-is-islam/

When the imam says "How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Qur’an, wether it is death or stoning for adultery, if it comes from Allah, it is the best punishment in the world?” Eeryone raises their hand.
“Are you all Islamic extremists? No one raises hand.
This is the default position of not just extremist muslims but "muslims".

Now the left will often say "yes, but the bible has Leviticus" if you asked christians "should we stone women who commit adultery (even if its in the Bible) you're not going to have too many people agreeing with Leviticus. That's old testament anyway, so if anything you'd be talking to Jews. ANd THEY aren't down with those laws in modern times.

But in islam you cannot question the will of Allah.

hombre said...

From the Daily Mail: "U.S. officials cautioned, however, that they had no immediate evidence of any direct connection with ISIS or any other foreign extremist group, nor had they uncovered any contacts between the gunman and any such group."

Let's see, ISIS threatens attack in Florida, gunman swears allegiance to ISIS on 911 call, gunman attacks in Florida, ISIS claims credit, but the Obama Administration says there is "no immediate evidence" of a connection to ISIS.

Obamadupes wait breathlessly to be told what to think. Is it about: A deranged loner? The need for gun control? A video mocking Mohammed? George Bush? Anything but radical Islamic terrorism, please!

Pray for the dead, wounded, and their families. Pray for the rest of us too. This is a nation run by partisan nitwits and this is just the beginning.

Fernandinande said...

Roughcoat said...
Remember Columbine, when the police SWATs, all decked out in body armor and Kevlar helmets and black BDUs, and armed with full auto assault rifles, marched around outside the school, hup two three four!, in their fancy gear and did nothing while those little monsters inside murdered their fellow students and at least one of their victims bled out?


They declared it a "successful operation"...which is defined as "only non-cops were hurt or killed".

Police departments around the U.S. are big into militarizing and playing soldier but when the shit hits the fan they don't do jack.

Doesn't everyone secretly want to dress up as a Storm Trooper and kick down doors, shoot dogs and burn babies in the middle of the night?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Sorry for misunderstanding, MayBee--I was going off of the Professor's link (to the guy @the mosque excusing the killing of gays). I've tried to engage Miriam with...pretty limited success, so I'm not super-careful about reading all her posts now.

Miriam said...

tommyesc,
Of course take them both seriously.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Miriam is just "virtue signaling". Islam and Muslims are the politcially correct approved group by the leftists, therefore they must not be criticized or even discussed. Even their most radical groups are protected by the correctness. The mantra (delusion) is that the majority of Muslims are peaceful and lurve everyone and the jihadis are crazy outliers.

However, Christians are not approved groups and can be pounced upon and all Christians are tarred by the crazy outliers. All Christians are evil bad.

Virtue signalling at its best. And this is why we will never be able to face the problem. The left doesn't even want to acknowledge the existence of the problem and will Deflect, Deny and be firm it their Delusions.

tim in vermont said...

You would think that Miriam would want the apparent Christian Fundamentalist problem that keeps her up nights solved first, before importing hundreds of thousands more religious fundamentalists, but you would be wrong.

jr565 said...

(cont) to even question the punishments meted out in the koran is the equivalent of apostasy. That's why wheneer a country imposes sharia, it always stones women. thats not the extremist position, that is the default position.
Those who are actually getting Islam wrong are the secular muslims.

glenn said...

Some idiot on NBC just made the self radicalized shooter comment, Oh sorry, that was the President. Here's a hint for you. The Orlando shooter was a radical from early on. This is because he's a Muslim. He's just been biding his time waiting to kill infidels. So was Nadal Hassan and so was the San Bernadino shooter. Get over it.

Achilles said...

This is a Muslim family member. This is a moderate Muslim. This is who they are. They support, fund, and venerate the "extremists." Really they are just the cowards in the background.

This is why when Trump advocated bombing the families of terrorists veterans agreed with him. We have seen these people over and over. They might not shoot at us but they provide places to hide, food, and support. They cheer on the rooftops in New Jersey when towers fall. If you are truly interested in stopping terrorism and radical Islamism you need to take these people out as well.

You are not talking about a small minority or even a minority here.

The Drill SGT said...

Cops are cops.

The traditional military approach is:

an 80% solution, implemented now and vigorously beats the perfect solution timidly executed too late.

Fabi said...

Amanda / Miriam is back with her false equivalencies and thread jacking. I hoped that she'd learn a few new tricks on her little vacation from commenting, but, alas.

traditionalguy said...

Is this where Mahrer tells us Mateen was a brave man for committing mass murder for Islam?

Maybe Muslims dancing in the street is passé now. They fear Trump.

glenn said...

rhhardin said:

"It isn't hatred. It's self-respect and doing what the culture teaches you to admire.

Killing gays and Jews is doing something meaningful with your life.

A good reason to keep that culture out of the country".

And that's the only thing that will work. Right now it's politically unacceptable. Right now.

damikesc said...

Miriam is just "virtue signaling". Islam and Muslims are the politcially correct approved group by the leftists, therefore they must not be criticized or even discussed.

As Milo said, the Left chose Islam over gay men. Christians may condemn you, but they won't kill you (evidence: gays aren't dead). Muslims would slaughter you.

It's just odd that the "gay leadership" is so OK with it.

tim maguire said...

hombre said...Let's see, ISIS threatens attack in Florida, gunman swears allegiance to ISIS on 911 call, gunman attacks in Florida, ISIS claims credit, but the Obama Administration says there is "no immediate evidence" of a connection to ISIS.

According to Obama, there's also no evidence Hillary broke the law and no evidence the IRS targeted conservatives. He's just being consistent.

damikesc said...

According to Obama, there's also no evidence Hillary broke the law and no evidence the IRS targeted conservatives. He's just being consistent.

White racism, though, killed those parishioners at Emmanuel church in Charleston. No other possible reason. Not "Hey, that one kid is a racist moron" --- if you had even looked at a Confederate flag, you were sketchy.

Lucien said...

If Mateen was actually holed up in a bathroom, and the SWAT folks used a breaching attack it probably took some time to determine: a) that he was in the bathroom; b)which bathroom, if there were multiple bathrooms; and c)where to set breaching charges on the outside to make sure they got into the bathroom Mateen was in.

That takes a while, especially if you are very careful about things, which is how you stay alive.

hombre said...

@miriam (9:45): There is a difference between a Christian "leader" speaking radical theology outside the mainstream and Imams universally advocating Sharia law as decreed by Islamic theology. Islamists are murdering people all over the world. Christians are not. The Crusades and the Inquisition are not only historical, they were unbiblical.

Additionally, both Covenant and New Covenant Theology tell us that the teaching of Jesus supersedes the elements of Levitical Mosaic Law so gleefully cited by heathens as requiring Christians to slaughter people.

Finally, except for nitwits given to moral equivalence preaching against sin and inciting jihad, shooting and blowing people up are not the same. Evidently, you are one of the nitwits.

gerry said...

That takes a while, especially if you are very careful about things, which is how you stay alive.

Very, very true, Lucien. The problem is, a few commenters here don't want law enforcement personnel to survive very dangerous situations.

Rusty said...

Police departments around the U.S. are big into militarizing and playing soldier but when the shit hits the fan they don't do jack.

Because they are under no legal obligation to put themselves in harms way. Their personal safety comes first.

Quaestor said...

Does anyone wonder whether this deliberate slaughter of gays will move the Left to the kind of outrage against the jihad being waged against us of a similar kind to the outrage those of us with a "less nuanced" view of the endless struggle of Good vs Evil experienced on 9-11? Most of those on the Left weren't particularly outraged when the World Trade Center was destroyed because the planes were flown by Muslims, and many Muslims are darker skinned than descendants of the Normans and Saxons, therefore opposition to Islam is racism, and we deserved it anyway.

However, now we're faced with a situation of competing leftist virtues — the heroic anti-Zionist Muslims, unassailably virtuous by way of their brownness, versus the heroic LGBTQ, unassailably virtuous by way of their absolutely fabulous taste in antiques and body piercings, among other things. How will Rachel Maddow square this circle? I realize she's already trying to deflect the whole tragedy onto the NRA, but it ain't gonna work. It will only take one bona fide queer media darling to call out that particular naked emperor. Can we hope for reason to finally prevail in the pages of Salon.com?

Original Mike said...

Hillary Clinton changed her tune Monday and referred to the Orlando massacre as a result of “radical Islamism,” a sharp break from President Obama, who has declined to use the term.

Welcome to the party, Hill.

cubanbob said...

"Can we hope for reason to finally prevail in the pages of Salon.com?"

No.

cubanbob said...

Original Mike said...
Hillary Clinton changed her tune Monday and referred to the Orlando massacre as a result of “radical Islamism,” a sharp break from President Obama, who has declined to use the term.

Welcome to the party, Hill.

6/13/16, 12:48 PM"

That will be down the memory-hole in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime how will Trumpy run with this? How about this "even Hillary admits Obama is a disaster and she's a criminal and a traitor!"

Sigivald said...

See, I'm a civil libertarian, and think people should both be able to own guns*, and both have any religion they want and even say that gay people are horrible, because freedom of religion and speech.

I do think it'd be nice if everyone else actually took all civil liberties seriously, rather than just the ones Their Side likes.

I don't want to hear "ban guns" from someone who also says "never ever consider religion as a factor in anything", despite all these annoying links between certain kinds of Islam and violence. (Even more if the same person, as I've seen more than once, is happy to conflate any sort of Christianity with violent desires.)

The one place I think "intersectionality" makes any sense is in civil liberties, rather than grievance politics.

(* I mean, I'm for repealing the Hughes Amendment and National Firearms Act, and department stores selling machine-guns over the counter.

I am serious about that, just as I am about freedom of religion and speech even and especially when they're unpleasant.

I have no time for people who claim to be "liberal" and don't support civil liberties when they're even mildly uncomfortable.)

holdfast said...

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

I believe the father was a naturalized citizen and was running for President of Afghanistan. How is that not a violation of his oath of citizenship?

Sydney said...

Quaestor - they are already studiously ignoring the source of the hate crime. Woke up to the BBC on the radio this morning. They were interviewing a spokesperson for the LGBT community in Orlando who was emphasizing the need for unity and love and forgiveness. "We're all about love. Love always trumps hate." And somewhere else I saw a link to an article that blamed Christians for this. Somehow. And of course, there's the ubiquitous blame the guns angle.

jr565 said...

"Some idiot on NBC just made the self radicalized shooter comment, Oh sorry, that was the President. Here's a hint for you. The Orlando shooter was a radical from early on. This is because he's a Muslim. He's just been biding his time waiting to kill infidels. So was Nadal Hassan and so was the San Bernadino shooter. Get over it."
They would have you believe he became radicalized when the trans tried to use bathrooms of the sex they identify as. But, unless the CIA spoke to this guy in the past 6 months he was radicalized long before that.
He supposedly cheered for 9/11 at the time of the attack: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/13/on-911-omar-mateens-classmates-mourned-some-say-he-celebrated/?utm_term=.3c918fd6e2d0
Granted, its stories we're hearing about long after the fact so there might be some lack of truth to them. However, does anyone doubt that it could have happened the way his classmates say?

jr565 said...

"We're all about love. Love always trumps hate."

Citation needed.

Sebastian said...

"I don't get it" and "it was imaginable," and, and . . . But we're dealing with PC Dems here, the sort of people you sometimes vote for, in your cruelly neutral way. They don't want to imagine. They don't want to face what is staring them in the face. Denial serves their purposes. They have more worthy targets -- GOP homophobes, Christians, Trump, not Others called Omar. Hill's speech just shows the tiniest crack in the armor. Tomorrow we'll be back to Islam religion of peace.

gerry said...

However, now we're faced with a situation of competing leftist virtues — the heroic anti-Zionist Muslims, unassailably virtuous by way of their brownness, versus the heroic LGBTQ

Classic dialectical re-synthesis. What, I wonder, will emerge?

MadisonMan said...

Why didn't they imagine it?!

Why didn't people imagine that shooting would happen in an Airport Check-in?

Bureaucrats react. They don't anticipate, because to anticipate requires that they actually work rather than sit around a pull a paycheck.

To be fair, there may be things they imagine that won't happen (or are so unlikely that it's a waste of $$$ to plan for them) -- but something like a mass shooting? In America? I think every modest-sized community should be alert to the possibility. Even Madison!

holdfast said...

Law Enforcement is trained and ordered not to imagine it - not to learn anything useful about Islam, especially radical Islam. The Jihad Lobby of CAIR and other front groups successfully lobbied Obama and Brennan to have all "wrongthink" materials and speakers purged.

pst314 said...

"no radicalism"
Funny how after virtually every terror attack is over, the terrorist's family and friends and coreligionists at his mosque all say he showed no signs of radicalism. Very puzzling. /sarcasm

SGT Ted said...

What happened is pretty easy to imagine if you simply observe what Muslims do to gay people in countries they run.