“The Berkeley police officer exited his vehicle and approached the subjects when one of the men pulled a handgun and pointed it at the officer,” the county police department, which is leading the investigation, said in a statement. “Fearing for his life, the Berkeley officer fired several shots, striking the subject, fatally wounding him. The second subject fled the scene.”This happened in a place called Berkeley, near Ferguson, Missouri.
December 24, 2014
"The video was taken from a distance but the episode did not appear to turn confrontational until one of the men turned away, reached down and then turned back to face the officer, appearing to point his arm straight out."
The police say there was a gun in that hand, aimed at the officer, who shot the man dead. That part is not in the video.
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145 comments:
Not nearly enough resolution for me to see what happened.
Don't pull a gun on a cop. Doesn't matter what color you are, you will be shot.
Fronting on people lawfully carrying a gun is moronic and gets morons killed.
More bad choices being made by people.
You say it ain't cool;
But momma didn't raise no fool.
Rat-a-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is.
Some things will never change.
""Changes"
[1]
Come on come on
I see no changes. Wake up in the morning and I ask myself,
"Is life worth living? Should I blast myself?"
I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black.
My stomach hurts, so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch.
Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a hero.
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares? One less hungry mouth on the welfare.
First ship 'em dope and let 'em deal to brothers.
Give 'em guns, step back, and watch 'em kill each other.
"It's time to fight back", that's what Huey said.
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead.
I got love for my brother, but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other. We gotta start makin' changes.
Learn to see me as a brother 'stead of 2 distant strangers.
And that's how it's supposed to be.
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things changed, and that's the way it is
[Bridge w/ changing ad libs]
Come on come on
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
[Repeat]
I see no changes. All I see is racist faces.
Misplaced hate makes disgrace to races we under.
I wonder what it takes to make this one better place...
let's erase the wasted.
Take the evil out the people, they'll be acting right.
'Cause both black and white are smokin' crack tonight.
And only time we chill is when we kill each other.
It takes skill to be real, time to heal each other.
And although it seems heaven sent,
we ain't ready to see a black President, uhh.
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact...
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks.
But some things will never change.
Try to show another way, but they stayin' in the dope game.
Now tell me what's a mother to do?
Bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you.
You gotta operate the easy way.
"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way.
Sellin' crack to the kids. "I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that's the way it is.
[Bridge]
[Talking:]
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.
And still I see no changes. Can't a brother get a little peace?
There's war on the streets and the war in the Middle East.
Instead of war on poverty,
they got a war on drugs so the police can bother me.
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do.
But now I'm back with the facts givin' 'em back to you.
Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up, crack you up and pimp smack you up.
You gotta learn to hold ya own.
They get jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone.
But tell the cops they can't touch this.
I don't trust this, when they try to rush I bust this.
That's the sound of my tool. You say it ain't cool, but mama didn't raise no fool.
And as long as I stay black, I gotta stay strapped and I never get to lay back.
'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the payback.
Some buck that I roughed up way back... comin' back after all these years.
Rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat. That's the way it is. uhh
[Bridge 'til fade:]
Some things will never change"
Don't pull a gun on a cop. Doesn't matter what color you are, you will be shot.
Not necessarily true. A man in Madison, walking down the street, pulled a gun on a cop and lived to tell about it.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/brief-police-standoff-on-east-side-bucks-trend-as-no/article_1123493a-e927-5002-9880-ec1b4b78bbf1.html
Needless to say, the man was white.
They also recovered the 9mm on the scene with a filed off serial number.
Madisonfella wrote:
"Needless to say the man was white"
Wow so you found a case of a guy who pulled a gun on cops and didnt die. And you offer that he was white as if it was reflective of all interactions.
Larry David shot 6 cops including shooting a woman in he face and he wasn't killed by cops. "Needless to say the man was black"
They also recovered the 9mm on the scene with a filed off serial number
Bibles aren't required to have serial numbers, so why should guns?
Larry Davis not Larry david
Madisonfella why does anything need to have a serial number on it. Usually the serial numbers are filed off so you can commit crimes with it. As this thug, who had a record, probably did.
Not quite Buckley,
Does the person writing the song Changes have no self awareness.
He's hungry so he steals women's purses. Thats someone who takes from
Others by force. Exactly the kind of person cops will
Target. Not becuase of skin color but becuase they snatch purses.
Wow so you found a case of a guy who pulled a gun on cops and didnt die.
Yes, I corrected an incorrect statement that Tim had made. Given how unusual that is in this echo chamber, I can understand why you are impressed.
Larry David shot 6 cops including shooting a woman in he face and he wasn't killed by cops.
You talking about the guy from Seinfeld or the guy three decades ago that "surrendered to police when the presence of reporters convinced him he would not be harmed"?
Hard to tell which you're talking about, since neither is exactly relevant to what we're talking about.
"First ship em dope and let them deal to brothers" notice how it's the authorities they are to blame for the shipping of crack to the brothers not the guys selling the crack. Those selling crack to the brothers are other black men who bought the crack and sold it to their brother willingly because they wanted to make cash
why does anything need to have a serial number on it
So Big Government can track it. And tracking guns goes against the Second Amendment.
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
notice how it's the authorities they are to blame for the shipping of crack to the brothers not the guys selling the crack
Much like how many people are blaming Al Sharpton for chants that occurred at a march he wasn't even at.
"Give em
Guns step back and watch them kill each other"
No one GIVES people guns. They buy them.
And if they're shooting each other it's because that's what they choose to do.
That's shat the thug life is all about. If you want to change first you have to take personal responsibility
adisonfella that's a horrible analogy.
We've had serial numbers On guns for a long time. Not sure where you've been madisonfella.
Legal gun owners say they are not the problem it's those committing the crimes who buy guns illegally. I'm willing to accept then that you can buy a gun that is legal which would require identification of its legality.
You libertarians are really hilariuos
Shapton has a long history of inciting riots.
that's a horrible analogy
The Larry Davis analogy you brought up? Yup, it isn't comparable at all to what is being discussed.
Davis was spared his life at the scene due to the presence of the reporters. But the police ended up getting their vengeance after he was locked up in prison. Nothing at all like what happened in Madison last week.
Can you give me an example of a black male, on the streets with no reporters around, who pulled a gun on a cop and lived to tell about it? Preferably within the couple years rather than digging back an entire generation.
The youtube video released to the public stops with the man's arm extended, before the shooting starts.
Because showing someone's death on youtube is prejudicial to future jurors, I would suppose, as well as callous to the recently deceased.
I look forward to the CSI-style zoomed in and enhanced perfect resolution version of this video, which will include full audio and even show the gun's filed off serial number.
You libertarians are really hilariuos
You gun-hating liberals aren't funny at all. In fact, you're destroying our country and everything that was good about it.
We have serial numbers and barcodes on just about everything. I don't see why the 2nd amendment would somehow mean that gun owners can't even identify their own guns with serial numbers.
That's a really bizarre reading of the 2nd amendment.
Tim said...
Don't pull a gun on a cop. Doesn't matter what color you are, you will be shot.
Perhaps a better way of saying that is don't even appear to be pulling a gun on a cop or you're likely to be shot. Rapidly bringing your arm up like that can be seen as a threatening move. Some cops will react faster than others and you can easily find yourself on the receiving end of fast moving pieces of lead. As the old saying goes, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Perhaps a better way of saying that is don't even appear to be pulling a gun on a cop or you're likely to be shot
So all the talk we hear of citizens needing guns to protect themselves from government tyranny was....a bunch of nonsense?
Garage you guys are really reaching today. Why would what he said imply that?
A cop doing a routine stop is not tyranny. if govt does go despotic your only defense is a gun. Also it may be your only defense if a guy who files the s/n off his gun decides to rob your house. Cops are Not going to be there to protect you.
Madisonfella you're the one now dwfending shapton and illegal gun ownership. please don't insult when you are so wrong about so much. And I'm no Lib. I'm no extrist either.
If libertarianism means you can't even have a serial number on guns then libertarians is for whackos.
Madison fella Larry davis Wasnt killed by cops on his subsequent arrest either. A fellow prisoner was the one that shanked him.
Madisonfella you're the one now dwfending shapton
Link please.
Larry davis Wasnt killed by cops on his subsequent arrest either. A fellow prisoner was the one that shanked him.
Yes, the cops used a prisoner to get to him.
But, as it was pointed out earlier, that case has nothing to do with the situation being discussed. Do you have an example of a black male, on the streets, that pointed a gun on a cop and lived to tell about it?
Madisonfella you asked for a guy who pulled his gun on cops who wasn't killled. Not only did Davis pull his gun he shot 6'one in he face with a shotgun.
Larry Davis Was no saint. He mostiky murdered at least five people.
madison fella Larry Davis took a family hostsage during his 7 hour standoff
People have pulled guns on cops all the time and live to tell
The tale. A lot of times teu survive being shot but cops are sometimes able to get them to drop their guns.
Blacks too.
MF - sure, you can find counter examples.. You can find such to most rules of thumb. But the default rule that we all live with is to not pull a gun on cops, because they are likely to shoot you, and get away wit it. And, of course, the worse the neighborhood, the more this is true.
Much like how many people are blaming Al Sharpton for chants that occurred at a march he wasn't even at.
...or like how people blamed Sarah Palin for the shooting of Giffords.
Don't like group guilt? Then don't practice it. The Right is just forcing the Left to live up to their self-professed standards.
So all the talk we hear of citizens needing guns to protect themselves from government tyranny was....a bunch of nonsense?
It isn't MY side requesting that the only people not in the military allowed to have guns be the police.
like how people blamed Sarah Palin for the shooting of Giffords
Exactly! The idiots who are blaming Sharpton are just as dumb as the idiots who blamed Palin.
And if they complained about Palin being unfairly blamed, yet are blaming Sharpton (and viceversa) then they are hypocrites as well and thus not worth even a smidgen of respect.
Did you blame Palin? Do you blame Sharpton?
If the guy with his arm up is the shootee, he either had a gun or he was trying to "commit suicide by cop."
Either way he gets shot by reflex action if the cop is fast enough.
Whether he actually had a gun or not is irrelevant as far as charging the cop with anything.
And "filing off the serial numbers" is old whodunit stuff. Serial numbers are punched into the metal and the police laboratory can recover them even if they are no longer visible on the surface.
Tim said...
"Don't pull a gun on a cop. Doesn't matter what color you are, you will be shot."
Don't pull a gun on anyone. Doesn't matter what color you are, you will be shot.
The Right is just forcing the Left to live up to their self-professed standards
In other words the "right" is no different than the "left", which is precisely why those of us in the middle despise extremists like yourself that are destroying our country.
You can either condemn the wrongdoing of others or embrace them. You have chosen to embrace them, which makes you just as bad as they are. Own it.
I do hope for the cop's benefit, and probably that of society at large, that the decedent's DNA and fingerprints are found on the gun. I think in today's day and age, it is likely. But we all have seen cops dump guns on people they shot on TV. I think that very unlikely here, but not impossible.
The reason that I think it important to society is that there will be a natural tendency for those screaming about police excessive force, racism, etc to lump this guy in with Brown and Garner. ESP since this happened very near Ferguson, MO.
Finally, I don't think that it should be a surprise that the cop, upon seeing a gun drawn and pointed at him, shot first, and asked questions later, two days after those two NYPD officers were assassinated in NYC. Cops all the way across the country, esp in urban areas, are going to be on high alert to personal danger in the near future. It would be suicidal of them not to be. And esp here, right by where this whole thing started.
"now dwfending shapton"
Jesus H. Christ, SPELLCHECK, people
madisonfella said...
"Madisonfella you're the one now dwfending shapton
"Link please."
madisonfella said...
"Much like how many people are blaming Al Sharpton for chants that occurred at a march he wasn't even at."
Same thread...
madisonfella said...
like how people blamed Sarah Palin for the shooting of Giffords
"Exactly! The idiots who are blaming Sharpton are just as dumb as the idiots who blamed Palin."
Wrong. They did not do the same thing. Palin was advocating that people give money to political campaigns and vote. Absolutely nothing to do with violence or even the subject at hand.
Sharpton's organization is organizing protests in coordination with people who regularly turn violent. His rhetoric is specifically and purposefully inflammatory and is directly supportive of people who are looting and attacking police.
Madisonfella one difference between Palin and Sharpton is that Sharpton actually incites and Sarah palin doesn't or didn't.
Sarah palin used targets to show voting districts to win. Sharpton targets all cops as racists out to get blacks lights the fuse and the steps back. He did the same thing in crown heights and again in
madisonfella said...
The Right is just forcing the Left to live up to their self-professed standards
"In other words the "right" is no different than the "left", which is precisely why those of us in the middle despise extremists like yourself that are destroying our country.
You can either condemn the wrongdoing of others or embrace them. You have chosen to embrace them, which makes you just as bad as they are. Own it."
That is terrible logic even for you Inga.
Don't pull a gun on anyone. Doesn't matter what color you are, you will be shot
Unless you're on the Bundy ranch, there you can point rifles at federal agents without getting shot.
I've got to agree with Tim.
If you don't want to be shot by police, don't pull a gun on the police.
Sadly, we have Al Sharpton, our President and our Attorney General encouraging this sort of behavior. It's no longer the extreme portion of a movement when the entire group is chanting to kill the police.
In the end, it won't be the police who are killed. It'll be teenagers who are too foolish to see that the protestors are full of it.
I wonder what all this may lead to. Since now we're apparently putting a national level laser focus these incidents, what is the end game here? If more and more societal pressure is put on cops constantly second guess their decisions in these sorts of situations, will the result be more dead cops? Will the roiling distrust and even outright hatred between the cops and citizens that we've seen over the past 5 months since the first Ferguson incident only increase? Will any good come of all this? 2015 is shaping up to be a grim year.
Freddie's fashion mart. That's what he does. In both cases people died after he stoked the fires.
Palin didn't say anything about any person and there is no indication the shooter of
Gifford even saw the posters. Likewise when the left goes after the NRa every time there's a shooting. THe NRA isn't targeting any group or school. And he shooters hwge no axe to grind about the schools
Gun policies. The left simply
Latches onto events and the ascribes blame
The guy who shot the two cops
Did it specifically in revenge for the deah of brown and Gardner. Now ultimately
Blogger jr565 said...
Madisonfella one difference between Palin and Sharpton is that Sharpton actually incites and Sarah palin doesn't or didn't.
You're wasting your breath jr565. Inga is trolling you, which is why she changes her name.
I'm sure if you went back to the time Sarah Palin was accused of this, Inga jumped all over it.
But oops, there is no more Inga! So now madisonfella can pretend that they never said anything about Sarah Palin and now you and I should just Shut up! when it comes to these race hustlers inciting violence against the police.
Garage weren't the people in Waco white? I thought cops didn't kill white people?
Bottom line madisonfella, this particular guy pointed a gun at a cop. A cop doesn't have to wait for you to fire befor he reacts.
I see the lefties are out again defending deBlasio and Sharpton.
Personally, if I was a cop in St Louis County, I would drive by and ignore the loiterers. I think we will see a spike in big city crime. Especially inner city. What goes around, comes around.
I am not a lover of cops and have had several bad experiences, including testifying for a patient of mine who was shot and partly paralyzed because he was a black man who walked out of a party with a black woman who was being staked out because her boyfriend (not him) was wanted.
He got nothing although his life was ruined. A few years later, Rodney King got millions for injuries that were minor. Video camera you know.
Thank God the officer did not use a choke hold on him.
Seriously, I hope it is a gun that can be connected to the dead man.
Garage
I'm all for people paying taxes. You know who should also? Al Sharpton.
As to why the militia wasn't dealt with my guess is
That they weren'r commuting any crimes. And cops treat
Them
Similarly to how they treat the protesters. When they come out and arrest people the usual crowd calls them the gestapo.
Cops remembering Waco are reluctant to send in the cops becuase they don't want to deal with the backlash if it goes wrong. But I have no problem if they ultimately arrest this guy for not paying his taxes
Lay off the morning drinking, Inga. It's Christmas for Christ's sake, you stupid cunt. Can't you take one fucking day off from your defense of thugs and Al Sharpton?
I hope you are boiled in your own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through your heart.
traditionalguy said...
Thank God the officer did not use a choke hold on him.
Seriously, I hope it is a gun that can be connected to the dead man.
If the video is real, then his fingerprints will be on the weapon.
I thought cops didn't kill white people?
As usual, you thought wrong. For a group that claims they are skeptical of the media and the government, they will swallow any story from the media and the government without question. Power to the State!
Bill Clinton after the Giffords shooting:
"We cannot be unaware of the fact that, particularly with the internet, there's this huge echo-chamber out there, and anything any of us says falls on the unhinged and the hinged alike, and we just have to be sensitive to it"
The criminals gun was taken as evidence.
Could not be Berkley, California because they have gun control out there.
Berkeley isn't just near Ferguson. It's directly west of it. (The little uncolored space west of Berkeley is the main St. Louis airport.)
http://142209.com.myaasite.com/Repository/1/4/2/2/0/9/142209/8aef2d93-97f4-4b47-add3-9ccc51136c58.jpg
Eric's constant claims that I am "Inga", or "Penguin", or "Shortbus", or "Garage" or any of the other names he has "absolute proof" (which he refuses to produce) that I really am all those people is an intentional lie on his part.
The fact that he (and his many sockpuppets) have to resort to this type of nonsense speaks volumes about him and his opinions.
He nothing more than a troll, no matter what name he logs in under.
for Christ's sake, you stupid cunt
Damn Curious Eric Drago in Vermont, you're ugly and hate-filled. No matter what name you log in under.
Other people contributing to cops being shot:
http://nypost.com/2014/12/24/judge-frees-gang-thug-without-bail-after-nypd-death-threat/
So the guy gets no bail despite making death threats on facebook including an image of a black guy point firing into the window of a cop car with the caption "73nextt" (73 being his neighborhoods precint).
Didn't Deblasio himself say to call 911 if people are threatening to kill cops?
Doesn't mattet if the gun has his DNA on it, 'cause "the evidence been faked, man, the cops do it all the time"
In SF bay area, several people shot by police for pointing a knife, a potato peeler, one passed out drunk guy had a gold painted plastic gun as part of a costume. Nervous cop woke the guy up, then shot him. None of these people were black.
Obvious tip: DO NOT EVEN POINT YOUR FINGER AT A COP. Do not move during a traffic stop until the cop tells you to.
Even if you're not Inga it doesn't make you less of a retard, madisonfella.
eric wrote:
"We cannot be unaware of the fact that, particularly with the internet, there's this huge echo-chamber out there, and anything any of us says falls on the unhinged and the hinged alike, and we just have to be sensitive to it"
the problem with liberals and the left is that they say these things but then think we don't have google or think we dont' remember that they say these things and can look them up.
Even if you're not Inga it doesn't make you less of a retard,
Heh. Looking back at your many typos, ramblings, and misspellings in this thread it is really funny that you view me as a "retard".
Pointing out that Sharpton wasn't even at the march they say he was at isn't "defending him" as much as it is defending truth. But of course, the extremists don't care about facts when they are in a lynching mood.
Sock puppeting bitch accuses others of sock puppetry. Film at 11.
Right after the film of the worthless violent thug with a massive rap sheet who pointed a gun at police and got what he deserved.
MadisonCunt, I wish you could be more like Antonio Martin. Room temperature.
Madison,
I was typing a lot of those on my iphone. And there is no edit button. So, pardon the typos.
It is being said that Al Sharpton is responsible for what was said at a rally he wasn't even in attendance at. So with that in mind, why isn't Althouse responsible for this comment:
for Christ's sake, you stupid cunt
Since nobody on the right is condemning that vile, hate-filled, and blasphemous language does that mean you all condone and support it?
MadisonCunt, I wish you could be more like Antonio Martin. Room temperature
Death threats? It bothers you so much that I have a different opinion on various issues that you have to wish death upon me.
No doubt your fellow conservatives will not only condone that language, but some will most likely applaud it as well.
Sharpton is not responsible directly for someone shooting a cop. The person shooting the cop is. Sharpton is responsible for helping to foment the environment that suggests all cops are racist and out to kill black kids. The left is not in fact policing the crazies but letting them run wild.
Sadly, Inga, I am not a genie, so wishes do not rise to the level of "death threats." I have many wishes, none of which I have any influence on whether they come true.
But please do your usual victimhood routine, you always return to form. You are like a fat old white woman version of crack.
Bonus points for invoking "blasphemy" as I'm sure your religious sensibilities are so offended you abortion loving old cow.
So this is what it has now come to. One of the biggest conservative voices on this forum not only wishes death upon another, but while invoking the name of our Lord and Savior he calls me one of the most vilest and hate-filled slurs that one can be called.
And not even one person on his side says anything against it. That speaks volumes, about him as a person and all of you as a group.
What do we want? Dead Madison fella!
When do we want it? Now!
That was a joke Madison fella. But just there to make a point.
Cops were called a lot worse than that Madisonfella. People are actually murdering them now, or threatening more murders. Every time theres's a shooting the usual crowd adds it to their list of grievances to hate cops MORE. Even when there is video showing the guy who got shot first pointed a gun at a cop.
But just there to make a point
I got your point. You are not going to condemn the words of your fellow traveler. And unlike Al Sharpton, you are actually "here" while the death threats and vile name-calling are occurring.
Madisonfella wrote;
And not even one person on his side says anything against it.
He wished I would, "Catch a bullet" before because I'm a police officer.
Did you speak up for me then?
When you didn't, did I accuse you of supporting him?
You're really reaching for straws here.
Jumping to conclusions: "The second subject fled the scene."
No doubt your fellow conservatives will not only condone that language, but some will most likely applaud it as well.
And PMJ works in the legal profession! How is awesome is that? I wonder what his employer would think of his comments at Althouse?
Cops were called a lot worse than that Madisonfella
Is THAT the standards you live by? Because based on THAT logic, it is ok to rape somebody as long as you can point to someone else that was raped AND killed.
The pretzels you'll contort yourself into in order to defend the vileness and hate of your fellow travelers never ceases to amaze me.
He wished I would, "Catch a bullet" before because I'm a police officer.
I don't see that anywhere in the thread. Given your history of telling lies, I'll have to ask for proof of your claim.
But then again, I'm still waiting to see this "proof" you have that shows I'm really Inga and Penguin and Garage and Shortbus...so I won't be holding my breath on that.
Time to put Madisonfella on the Laslo skip-on-down list.
In other words the "right" is no different than the "left", which is precisely why those of us in the middle despise extremists like yourself that are destroying our country.
If it is "news" when a conservative is gay, why is it not the same news that a group who believes in "group guilt" doesn't buy the same when it is THEIR group?
And not even one person on his side says anything against it.
I'm working today and don't read every single post here. Sorry. The comment was insane.
Inga writes;
I don't see that anywhere in the thread. Given your history of telling lies, I'll have to ask for proof of your claim.
See, it was so insignificant, you didn't even notice it. I'm beneath you're notice and his vile comments to me are beneath your notice.
Figures.
Don't throw rocks when you're living in a glass house, Inga.
madisonfella said...
like how people blamed Sarah Palin for the shooting of Giffords
Exactly! The idiots who are blaming Sharpton are just as dumb as the idiots who blamed Palin."
Missed the part where Palin incited a Freddie's Mart and a Crown Heights. Since that didn't happen then those equating Sharpton and Palin are in the actual idiots.
Now why the hell should I care if cops shot dead some teenaged asshole criminal who appeared to be threatening the life of a cop? So far other than the exception of Garner in NY and that in itself is stretch none these people shot by the cops was an asset to society and we are all better off for them not being here. Consider them a self imposed retrospective abortion on the part of the dead criminals.
madisonfella wrote:
Is THAT the standards you live by? Because based on THAT logic, it is ok to rape somebody as long as you can point to someone else that was raped AND killed.
And yet You're the one saying that those pushing the incitement of the crowd should not be held accountable for any incitement. You weren't raped by the way.
See, it was so insignificant, you didn't even notice it. I'm beneath you're notice and his vile comments to me are beneath your notice.
Still don't see it in this thread. Where exactly did this occur? If he really said that about you then that is a terrible thing and indicates a pattern for him, which makes it even worse.
Of course, that assumes you and him aren't actually the same person. Which is a big assumption to make.
garage mahal said...
Perhaps a better way of saying that is don't even appear to be pulling a gun on a cop or you're likely to be shot
So all the talk we hear of citizens needing guns to protect themselves from government tyranny was....a bunch of nonsense?
12/24/14, 10:03 AM"
Apparently you don't have sufficient neuronal capability to distinguish between a police office doing his duty in a normal fashion and defending his like and cops who cease being cops and become the enforcement arm of tyrants. Nor than the average person afford to have full time 24/7 law enforcement security like his dishonor De Blasio.
In the case of one Eric Garner you are actually orbiting the truth when the NYPD acting as collection agents of the 6th Mob Family on NY a/k/a The City when Garner who refused to pay off the 6th Mob Family it's cig vig was injured in the collection process and died later from a heart attack.
Inga writes;
Still don't see it in this thread. Where exactly did this occur? If he really said that about you then that is a terrible thing and indicates a pattern for him, which makes it even worse.
Of course, that assumes you and him aren't actually the same person. Which is a big assumption to make
Where have you been?
He's said just as vile things to Ann Althouse and The Crack Emcee, or worse.
Until today, I've not seen you call him out one time.
Even if I'm him, you still haven't called him out until today.
Yet you want to indict the rest of the commenters on this blog 30 minutes after he makes yet another vile post.
Guys with gun not shot by police.
You lefties need to learn how to use google
I kid of course. You just want to spread the lie that Police are oppressing black people.
http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Pine-Lawn-officer-has-gun-pointed-at-him-several-times-during-pursuit-280601192.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Police_Armed_man_confronts_officers_at_scene_of_Tacony_bar_shooting.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Police_Armed_man_confronts_officers_at_scene_of_Tacony_bar_shooting.html
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/12/21/nypd-man-attempted-to-shoot-cop-but-gun-was-empty/
Madisonfella,
If Sarah Palin WERE inciting violence and a Tea Partier went and shot Gifford, you could make the argument that she incited the mob. But in that case, the mere presence of crosshairs on a poster was incitement. That's complete bullcrap.
Louis Farrakhan told his followers: "“See, now when my Muslim family here, Imams and my Christian family – in this book, there is a law for retaliation. The Bible says an eye, a tooth, a life. See now, as long as they kill us, and go to Wendy’s and have a burger and go to sleep, they gonna keep killing us. But when we die and they die, then soon we gonna sit down at a table and talk about – we tired. We want some of this earth. We tear this God damn country up.”
Did the killer think he was retaliating for the murder of Brown and Garner? Well yes. He said exactly that. You take one of ours we take two of yours.
I'm working today and don't read every single post here. Sorry. The comment was insane
That is totally understandable. I don't assume that everyone reads everything. I'm talking about the people who have obviously noticed it, yet continue to attack me for saying something about it rather than call out one of their own for saying it in the first place.
Thanks for agreeing that comment was out of line.
I'm a rugged, tough-guy gun owner who will stand up for my freedoms and stand up to the government with my weapons.
Government: Do EXACTLY as I tell you and don't flinch or look at me the wrong way or I will you.
"okee! okee! okee! I'll do anything you say"
cubanbob wrote:
In the case of one Eric Garner you are actually orbiting the truth when the NYPD acting as collection agents of the 6th Mob Family on NY a/k/a The City when Garner who refused to pay off the 6th Mob Family it's cig vig was injured in the collection process and died later from a heart attack.
ITs true that cops were enforcing that law. And it's also true that lbierals hiked the tax AND that Deblasio wanted cops to crack down on people selling illegal cigarettes because the state was losing revenue.
Don't have a problem with the cops acting as the enforcement of said laws though, any more than I would if cops say cracked down on people selling food out of a cart without a license.
Garage Mahal wrote:
Government: Do EXACTLY as I tell you and don't flinch or look at me the wrong way or I will you.
Do any of the three cases wer'e talking about align themselves to the narrative you're pushing? Now pointing a gun at a cop is the equivalent of a cop telling you if you look at me the wrong way I'll kill you?
What is the left protesting about? Clearly the narrative you're pushing. But the cases being used to push that narrative don't even contain those facts.
Show me the case where a cop tells someone "if you don't do exactly what I say or if you look at me the wrong way, I'm going to kill you" Show me THAT case and I'll agree with you that the cops went too far.
None of these are that, though. And the protesters are protesting as if they were.
Inga writes
STILL waiting for this "proof" you have that I am Inga. Or Penguin. Or Garage. Or Shortbus. Or any of the other people you think I really am.
Seriously, wtf is your problem? This obsession of yours is really creepy. Especially now that I'm getting death threats from another name who is probably also you.
I'd also say if you showed me that case that it would be an extremely rare one. Because most interaction don't have cops killing people for simply looking at them the wrong way.And if a cop took that defense to a grand jury no grand jury would not indict.
So congratulations. the cities are burning and race relations destroyed because you and those on the left are agitating around a narrative that doesn't exist.
Even the Hands up Don't shoot phrase is probably completely bullshit.
madisonfella,
I'd prefer Inga actually.
Prosecutor: So, officer why did you kill Mr. Black?
Officer: I told him not to look at me the wrong way. He did. So I shot him in the face.
Grand Jury: Acquitted!
In what bizzaro world are you thinking this is actually occurring?
Failure to condemn is implicit acceptance?
So if I don't condemn every inflammatory thing I see on blogs, it means that I agree with it?
Only a truly self-involved person would believe that crap.
@madisonfella,
They also recovered the 9mm on the scene with a filed off serial number
Bibles aren't required to have serial numbers, so why should guns?
Manufacturers like to put serial numbers on items.
Also, the Federal Government requires (per the 1968 Gun Control Act) all firearms manufactured and sold in the U.S. to have serial numbers. Defacing/destroying a serial number, or possessing/transferring a firearm with a defaced serial number is also a crime, per the same law.
If you think guns ought not to be required to have serial numbers, I encourage you to take up that legislative quest.
Especially with the tag line "Bible don't have serial numbers, why should guns."
However, there isn't much push on the gun-rights side for that.
This is off-subject as far as cop-shootings goes, but I think it is important to remember what the law is, and what laws were likely broken by this young man before he allegedly pointed a weapon at a Police Officer.
Video shows what looks like a man pointing something a the cop.
Cops find gun (sans serial numbers), victim has history of firearms violations as well as other crimes, no doubt forensics will find blood and finger prints of the deceased on the gun.
You know,one of those body cams might have been a clincher if they had it but... with all the evidence I'd say the guy pointed the gun at him and got shot for his trouble.
Deaf
This is incredible. It's entirely possible, even probable, that the cop in this case foiled an ambush or assassination attempt. The evidence at least suggests a clear case of justified use of lethal force. And the protesters pivot, manufacture outrage and make absurd claims like the cop should have used pepper spray when being threatened by a gun.
Word now coming down the victim was just showing the cop the gun was unloaded.
He said, "hey cop, see look down the barrel and you will see the gun is unloaded."
Yea.. Al Sharpton can use that.
Bad bad cop... All he had to do was look down the barrel and see the poor victim was just showing him the gun was unloaded... and didn't know the serial numbers had been filed off the gun.
jr565 said…
Cops are neither saints nor monsters. More often than not they are assholes since the job seems to attract those types but nevertheless they are vital to society. That said when the facts support the cops they should be defended and when the facts show the cops behaving out line they should be held accountable. A cop can on Monday be an asshole harassing a citizen for no good reason and on Tuesday be clearly in the right if he shoots dead a criminal resisting arrest or while committing a crime.
You seem to have this thing that just because a law is on the books that all laws have the same moral and ethical weight, a view that in my opinion isn't widely held. Bull Connor and his PD was upholding the law so to speak in Selma yet no one today and not all that many people back then would argue that was a justified used of police violence to enforce or uphold the law. On the other hand no normal person would argue that the cops weren't justified in using the level of violence used to stop the North Hollywood bank robbers. There is context to be considered. In the case of Garner who not exactly a model citizen was nevertheless being arrested for not charging and collecting NYC sin taxes, hardly a justifiable reason to use force.
Now as for civil damages in the Eric Garner matter, the city in this instance has a dilemma, pay damages and thus admit the cig vig is just a legalized form of extortion or deny and fight claiming that since Garner didn't have a legal income a court of law shouldn't provide his heirs a compensation for loss of illegal income.
Cubanbob:
While I generally agree that the cops over reacted in the Garner case I wonder what are they supposed to do if the person they are trying to arrest simply tells them to fuck off. Which is what Garner said in so many words. Can the cops not use force to arrest? It sounds pretty but would result in most every perp suggesting that the cops go fuck off.
cubanbob wrote:
You seem to have this thing that just because a law is on the books that all laws have the same moral and ethical weight, a view that in my opinion isn't widely held. Bull Connor and his PD was upholding the law so to speak in Selma yet no one today and not all that many people back then would argue that was a justified used of police violence to enforce or uphold the law. On the other hand no normal person would argue that the cops weren't justified in using the level of violence used to stop the North Hollywood bank robbers. There is context to be considered. In the case of Garner who not exactly a model citizen was nevertheless being arrested for not charging and collecting NYC sin taxes, hardly a justifiable reason to use force.
Selling cigarettes is legal. not illegal. So you are allowed to sell cigarettes. But you have to adhere to the law to do so.
How would this be any different than the cops going after you for, selling food out of a truck without a license. You CAN sell food out of a truck. Those that do go through the trouble of paying for a license. Those that dont' shouldn't be rewarded for not getting that license at the expense of those that do.
So what does that mean for enforcement? Well it means the state punishes people who sell without a license.
What do you want cops or the govt do for people who know that you need a license to sell food (or loosies) but set up every day in the same spot, despite being told it's against the law, and sell food illegally.
I don't see why govt SHOULDN'T enforce those laws. Do you.
That line of thinking ends poorly.
Do we really want to live in a nation where each individual police officer decides which laws to enforce and which laws to ignore?
We may agree that speeding laws are bad, or that drunk driving laws are bad, or that certain regulations are bad, and therefore, we don't want them enforced, because we disagree with them.
But getting those laws thrown out are for voters and politicians and the courts. Not for our law enforcement to decide, based on what, exactly? whether or not they will enforce it.
Once you head down that road, you end up with the IRS targeting conservatives but not liberals.
When justice is blind, all law is supposed to be applied equally to everyone.
The place to protest a law is not when the police come to arrest you for a violation. That might sound like a good excuse after the fact, but it shouldn't be.
Michael said...
Cubanbob:
While I generally agree that the cops over reacted in the Garner case I wonder what are they supposed to do if the person they are trying to arrest simply tells them to fuck off. Which is what Garner said in so many words. Can the cops not use force to arrest? It sounds pretty but would result in most every perp suggesting that the cops go fuck off.
12/24/14, 2:12 PM"
As a practical matter I understand the point you are making since every law is ultimately backed by state violence or it would simply be an admonishment or a suggestion and not a law. The issue is the overreaching of the state and criminalizing so much of life. Cigs are a legal product in every state so the issue here is the excessive amount of law where the City deems itself to be able to run extortion rackets. The cigs already were taxed where they were first sold and other than shaking down smokers ( who are on average poorer than non-smokers) simply because it can instead of trying to raise the same amount of revenue from residents of the City. What this country needs is a serious reduction of the numbers of laws on the books and a curbing of powers on all levels of government.
If you are saying its wrong for society to enforce laws that govern legal businesses, why should business actually operate legally?
Oh, so a liquor license is in fact optional? So then, I guess I'll save the expense of getting a liquor license. Oh, not being able to selling cigarettes to kids is optional, so then I guess I will. Oh, paying the govt the sales tax is optional. So then, I guess I wont.
Re: richard mcenroe said...
"Time to put Madisonfella on the Laslo skip-on-down list."
This, I believe, is the second time that richard decided it is important for everyone to know that he skips reading me.
He is obviously looking for emotional support in this matter. Don't fear, richard: I support you. Emotionally. Picture me holding you like a little baby, safe in your blanket.
You are a bright twinkly star, richard: you can choose exactly how you twinkle, it's okay.
I am Laslo.
It's like Eddie Izzard joke about having the option of cake or death. If there's an option then who's not going to choose the cake?
Letting him get away with selling his loosies and being exempt from the govt cracking down on his illegal business is like govt giving him the cake option but all the legal businesses the death option. Why should he be rewarded for violating the law?
madisonfella: "for Christ's sake, you stupid cunt
Damn Curious Eric Drago in Vermont, you're ugly and hate-filled. No matter what name you log in under"
Once again madisonfella, as i have done in the past, I am forced to ask: why do you keep lumping my name (Drago) in with others?
As a practical matter I understand the point you are making since every law is ultimately backed by state violence or it would simply be an admonishment or a suggestion and not a law
Oh please. Suspected white collar criminals aren't confronted in public, taken down, and/or shot.
Garage, they aren't confronted in public? So if a cop comes on the scene and finds them there, they should wait till he comes home and confront him there?
This happens a lot in NYC; we have street vendors who sell on the street without getting the license. And then we have street vendors who do get the license and are allowed to sell on the corner. The person who doesn't have the license keeps coming back day after day after day after day after day after day and sets up shop on a corner he isn't supposed to sell from. At a certain point cops are going to demand that he gets off that corner. If he keeps coming back he's going to be cited, ticked fined and possibly even arrested. Maybe all of those the first time.
But certainly after the 100th time.
Gardner was arrested for this same thing 8 times already. All the cops knew him as cigarette man, that's how known he was.
Serial numbers on guns go back at least to the 18th century, to track guns made on military contracts among others.
These were helpful for all sorts of things, such as inventory control, identifying stolen weapons and making sure that parts matched, in the days before interchangeability could be assured.
In commercial use they were also helpful to the manufacturer in identifying and proving competing products were fakes or violated patents. Faked products are not a modern thing at all.
Even if serial numbers were not required by US law, I think nearly all reputable gunmakers would do so anyway.
jr565 said...
If you are saying its wrong for society to enforce laws that govern legal businesses, why should business actually operate legally?
Oh, so a liquor license is in fact optional? So then, I guess I'll save the expense of getting a liquor license. Oh, not being able to selling cigarettes to kids is optional, so then I guess I will. Oh, paying the govt the sales tax is optional. So then, I guess I wont.
12/24/14, 2:24 PM"
The difference between a therapeutic drug and a poison is the dosage.
garage mahal said...
As a practical matter I understand the point you are making since every law is ultimately backed by state violence or it would simply be an admonishment or a suggestion and not a law
Oh please. Suspected white collar criminals aren't confronted in public, taken down, and/or shot.
12/24/14, 2:48 PM"
Must you always make a fool of yourself when trying to make a point by overreaching and exaggerating? Guess what champ, SEC agents carry guns and so IRS agents and both have been know to make the defendants do the perp walk for the TV cameras. Now as for not being shot, maybe they are slightly smarter than the average violent thug and don't visibly threaten the arresting cops.
Suspected white collar criminals are arrested under many circumstances. At their places of business, at home, during traffic stops, and of course they have been politely requested to surrender. There have been cases recently where white collar accused have had the whole SWAT team rigamarole at their homes or places of business.
cubanbob: "Must you always make a fool of yourself when trying to make a point by overreaching and exaggerating?"
You'll have to forgive garage.
He is just a lefty drone who will swallow any story from the his political "betters", the media and the government without question.
Why do people persist in calling the marks on Palin's map targets? In fact, she was accused of using crosshairs, like from a rifle scope. But, if you actually look at the symbols, they are not crosshairs, they are surveyors marks. Surveyors use them to designate specific reference points.
"Fearing for his life"
Strangely enough, fearing for my life isn't considered justification for my killing a cop.
Oh, yeah. Big Brother has the system built in his favor. Who would have thought?
The marks on Palin's map was registration marks, or symbols, from a library she was using.
Manufacturers often use that symbol on their packaging so that their printers will line up different colors correctly, etc. Look at a butter package in your fridge, f. ex.
With respect to Mr. Garner, the sequence of events was that the owner of the shop Mr. Garner hung out in front of go tired of not gettin effective action from the police to remove Mr. Garner, and called his alderman to complain, and the alderman called the police station and told them to remove Mr. Garner or else. So the cops on the street were told to go bring him in, no buts or whereases.
And Mr Garner did not die from ofc. Pantaleo's "hold" - whatever you call it - but from a heart attack for which being placed chest down on the sidewalk with several cops pressing him down probably was a contributary cause.
Hagar,
so then it wasn't even the loosies per se that got him in trouble. It was his constant presence in front of the store.
I live in NY so I see people like Gardner all the time. They stand in front of location, like a bank and pan handle or sell stuff. Sometimes they aren't polite about it either. Cops get called all the time for them, because they are a public nuisance. And they don't take the hint and leave. The next day there they are at the same location. And get belligerent when being asked to leave.
So that's case number 2 which is not racial and which cops were not in the wrong acting the way they did (the first being brown).
Case number 3 is now the kid who pulled out a gun and pointed it at the cop. 3 times in a row we have cases that are not about race but crime and the Sharptons of the world keep making it about race, defaming ALL cops as racists haters of blacks. And have ruined race relations for many pushing a really disingenuous narrative that is dangerous. Cops are paying for this with their lives at this point. Or getting assaulted by people who cant see plain evidence they are so worked up about racial injustices that (in these cases) are not even there.
The left really has a problem with exaggeration. The same thing is happening right now with the war on women and rape culture on campus. The feminists would have you believe that 1 in 4 college women are getting raped. When the actual number is closer to .6%. Not even 1%. Who would send your daughter to college if they had a 25% chance of getting raped there.
The dead kids peer group considers the New York shooter a hero. Kid wanted to feel important.
Not necessarily true. A man in Madison, walking down the street, "pulled a gun on a cop and lived to tell about it.
Needless to say, the man was white."
I cant decide if this is more stupid or assholish. You are actually stating the cop is ok with being shot and possibly killed as long as the shooter isn't black. Even the article states the cop didnt follow procedure. One of the hardest things for cops to get past is pulling the trigger on someone. Thankfully the vast majority never have to make that decision. But if we have enough cops to not shoot when someone points a gun at them, we should be able to rack up a nice dead cop body count for you. Even things up for you.
the problem with liberals and the left is that they say these things but then think we don't have google or think we dont' remember that they say these things and can look them up.
Well that SHOULD be a problem. But when they are found to be full o' bull it doesn't matter. Note Rangle denying the "What do we want" chant. Then the tape played, did he express embarrassment? Nope. Did he get grilled about why he was so grossly ignorant on such an important topic? No he wasn't. Did he get pressed on how awful that chant was? No he didn't.
"That speaks volumes, about him as a person and all of you as a group. "
Did I miss something while I was doing life ? What was it fat old cow ?
Merry Christmas Eve, everyone!
And then Slate writes an article about what Americans believe more than global warming.
The first and most obvious problem with the slate article is, the things people believe in more than they do global warming is, they are perfectly rational things to believe in (one of those things is God).
But the second obvious thing is, the news media have absolutely destroyed their credibility. Its no surprise no one believes them anymore.
madisonfella is pretty funny, since she went all ballistic that time about being accused of sock puppetry.
Merry Christmas madisonfella.
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