Mr. Snowden has not been seen publicly or photographed since his reported arrival in Moscow on Sunday afternoon from Hong Kong, and passengers on that flight interviewed at the airport could not confirm that he was on board.The information about Snowden doesn't want to be free.
Maybe the U.S. got him.
The situation remained a confounding and undoubtedly infuriating one for American officials, who have charged Mr. Snowden with illegally disclosing classified documents about American surveillance programs.Undoubtedly?
I doubt everything.
"I would urge [the Russians] to live by the standards of the law,” [Secretary of State John] Kerry said.Enigmatically.
“US bullying Russia for Snowden’s rendition is counterproductive. No self-respecting state would accept such unlawful demands,” [Wikileaks] wrote. The use of “rendition” was an explicit reference to the way the United States has handled terrorism suspects....Standards of law... must interpret...
Russia had seemed intent on allowing Mr. Snowden to transit through Moscow but at the highest levels of the Russian government, officials seemed to be pulling a page from a cold war playbook, coyly denying any knowledge about Mr. Snowden.The Russians, the NYT openly doubts.
“Over all, we have no information about him,” Dmitri Peskov, the spokesman for President Vladimir V. Putin, told Reuters early on Monday.The pesky Peskov.
Mr. Kerry said that it was ironic that Mr. Snowden may have been seeking the cooperation of China and Russian [sic] in his flight, given their positions in restricting Internet freedom.Ironic ≈ verrry innnterrresting.
It was unclear how Mr. Snowden spent his time at the airport or precisely where.Who knows what sorts of VIP rooms they have at the Moscow airport?
The departure of the flight to Havana from Moscow came after an all-night vigil by journalists who were posted outside a hotel in the transit zone of the airport where Mr. Snowden was apparently staying. But on Monday morning, hotel staff members said that no one named Snowden was staying there.Disappeared... despite the vigil by journalists... at a hotel that was near the airport.
Russian news services had reported that Mr. Snowden would take a Monday afternoon flight to Cuba, prompting a late rush for tickets from the horde of journalists gathered at the airport.Hey, journalists, stampede this way! Vigil at the hotel, stampede to the airport. It's like they're teenage girls trying to catch a glimpse of The Beatles.
As long as John Kerry brought up irony... it's ironic that the Snowden emerged to tell us about the nefarious, overwhelming, all-encompassing, and abusive surveillance powers of the United States, and the country can't find one man who made himself conspicuous.
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81 comments:
Who pays for all of this travel? He's really racking up the miles/hotel bills.
We already knew they (the US federal government) couldn't find terrorists with any certainty, as they didn't find the Tsarnaev brothers before the Boston bombing, and had trouble doing so afterwards.
That's the problem with this data collection method: It's going to find scads of data on people who aren't trying to hide anything, data that can be used against them if the government decides to fuck with them.
Putin is laughing his ass off, knowing he pulled one over on the campaigner from Chicago.
Some people have charisma AND are effective.
The United States Gov't wants to jail Edward Snowden, but Edward Snowden, reasonably enough, does not wish to go to jail.
It is that simple, and the righteous blustering about "honest whistleblowers" do not go to China, etc., is just that - empty bluster.
At that, I bet both the PLA and Mr. Putin are enjoying this.
it's ironic that the Snowden emerged to tell us about the nefarious, overwhelming, all-encompassing, and abusive surveillance powers of the United States, and the country can't find one man who made himself conspicuous.
Snowden did not vouch for the competence of the people looking at everyone's bits and bytes. He just alerted all of us to how they are collecting and storing it for posterity when you know the real artificial intelligence kicks in like Bill Gates assure us that it will all be useful one day. May be right now it is a mega haystack they are collecting and looking for a needle in it. But Silicon Valley is sure happy at this payback with their mega data centers and huge database for er.. research in social engineering.
And dozens of MSM paparazzi trapped on the Aeroflot flight to Havana, that is just delicious!
I thought Mr Obama would have more flexibility after the election--apparently Mr Putin didn't get the memo.
You know Snowden did us all another big favor -- he has exposed the media for its incompetence and the liberal hypocrisy.
Since when the liberal media cared about their sources motives?
What is the value of information put out by Snowden if we were unaware of Snowden and as the source for this? What if he was just an unknown whistleblower source, you know kind of Deep Throat?
Mr. Kerry said that it was ironic that Mr. Snowden may have been seeking the cooperation of China and Russian [sic] in his flight, given their positions in restricting Internet freedom.
Shouldn't Kerry be trying to help Snowden scape?
I'm so confused. People change sides and nobody tells me anything.
Russia tells the U.S. that a dangerous terrorist is in the U.S. and our government yawns and says its investigation shows he's no danger. Thereafter, he blows up the Boston Marathon.
The U.S. tells Russia that it has guy who has endangered global security. Russia responds, "bite me."
Slight topic derail:
"US bullying Russia for Snowden’s rendition is counterproductive."
While the use of the word "rendition" is technically accurate, isn't that word choice telling? Instead of bringing to mind the legal, civil and generally accepted sense of lawful procedure connoted in "extraordinary rendition" - i.e. "extradition" - the term seems to have been deliberately chosen in order to raise hackles by drawing a comparison to the popular image of illegally turning over people to unsavory agencies in less lawful nations.
Yes, of course Wikileaks has an agenda; it's stupid to hold them to any standard of objectivity. That's irrelevant; the point is that a word choice was made - possibly deliberately? - that paints the topic as one of questionable legality and morality instead of standard law-enforcement procedure between nations. This is why I always say public statements made with the intent of persuasion cannot simply be accepted outright, but must be subjected to critical analysis. It's as if "extradition" would not paint the proper picture in Wikileaks' statement for this case, would it?
For Dick Cheney et al., the enemy was America's enemies abroad; for the Obama administration, the enemy is their political opposition here at home.
That is why they should not have these tools under cover of "national security," but should be watched at all times.
Flights to Cuba are controlled by the US air traffic system.
A gentlemen's agreement that worked through the cold war, that everybody wants airplanes not colliding.
Obama won't understand gentlemen's agreements.
I don't know whether Putin is playing the Obama administration, or they're just out of their depth. No reason why both can't be true, but time to take a deep breath. We'll know more soon enough.
But if I was Putin a person who knew about NSA sources and methods fell into my hands -- with laptops full of data -- I would put him in a comfortable, gilded cage for a while at least.
... but if I was Putin and a ...
Sorry for the typo.
"They seek him here,
they seek him there,
those Frenchies seek him everywhere.
Is he in heaven or is he in hell?
That damned elusive Pimpernel."
Putin is KGB...
Obama is a Community Organizer.
From the makers of UNO comes Blink
It's faster than you think
Two players race to be the first to play all of their cards
Players quickly try to match the shape, count, or color on the cards
The first player out of cards wins
Fast and portable, Blink is instant fun for everyone
"flexibility"
just throwing this out there: does obama really want him back?
election season is coming up. A highly publicized, controversial trial in which the left is the bad guy might not be in the interest of the regime.
or they could delay the trial until December 2014.
Nicely put, Hagar.
Vlad, the "old Chekhist", does it the way he was taught in the KG used-to-B.
And laughs his ass of at the Messiah, having made a complete fool of him.
Maybe that's what he was thinking, sitting across from Barack I The Fool, back in Ireland.
Roger J. said...
I thought Mr Obama would have more flexibility after the election--apparently Mr Putin didn't get the memo.
He did get the memo and planned accordingly.
PS Where are all the trolls, telling us how brilliant the Fool is?
Big Mike,
We'll know more soon enough.
I doubt that.
If Snowden really has four laptops of top secret stuff, well the KGB has them now. But we'll never know that.
And if Snowden is actually in Moscow, I suspect he is well and truly fucked.
"Where are the Snowdens of yesterday?" - Joseph Heller, Catch-22
"The United States Gov't wants to jail Edward Snowden, but Edward Snowden, reasonably enough, does not wish to go to jail.
And that in itself tells you that what he did was not civil disobedience.
So, now he's a man without a country, looking for someone to adopt him. But national governments (most of them, anyway) act from self interest. What will he have to pay to be adopted?
It appears Chinese government agents went through those 4 laptops before Snowden left Honk Kong. Isn't that nice?
Hey, remember when the Bush NSA let a 29 year old joker run of with 4 laptops and a bunch of classified documents?
Me too!
The headline an hour now appears announcing that Snowden left Hong Kong going to Moscow, Snowden is in Moscow, Snowden is leaving Moscow...and Snowden walked in Moscow, and Snowden talked in Moscow, and Snowden sat down in Moscow, etc.
The ObamaMedia psyops guys want badly for us to associate Snowden with Moscow.
Honk Kong.
Next stop -
Beepjing!
mariner said...
And if Snowden is actually in Moscow, I suspect he is well and truly fucked.
No, this guy isn't Raoul Wallenberg.
Think Philby, McLean & Co.
He'll get a nice little dacha in the country with hot and cold running pole dancers.
OTOH, our geniuses of the Lefty press are on a 12 hour flight to nowhere.
Honk Kong.
Next stop -
Beepjing!
He'll get a nice little dacha in the country with hot and cold running pole dancers.
Nice shot ed.
Mr. Snowden, his computers and everything stored in his brain are now in possession of the KGB. He will now fully understand the meaning of the word 'disappeared'.
The press, the Department of State and Barack Obama have all been played for the rubes they are by Vladimir Putin. And there is nothing any of them can do about it. The amateurs have met the pro, and the pro won, then erased all tracks.
Mariner said the Russians have the laptops.
While that may be true, I suspect that the Chinese have, if not the laptops, a mirror of all the drives.
This seems to be one of those times when he should have put everything in the cloud and distributed it as widely as possible. Encrypted, of course.
Get hundreds of thousands of people downloading it.
That gets it out there and, if he decides to release it, all he need do is disseminate the password.
If the Chinese and Russians have the laptop data, and there is no copy in the cloud, then THEY are the ones who get to decide what and when to release.
John Henry
My suspicion is that part of Snowden's motivation is the wish to be famous and special. If so, he has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. And, no doubt, other quirky introverts with top secret clearances are fingering their thumb drives and whispering me, me, me.
As a Vietnam vet, I consider John Kerry to be more of a traitor than Snowden.
My suspicion is that part of Snowden's motivation is the wish to be famous and special.
I'm sympathetic to a point for those blowing the whistle on the brave new world of data collection our technology makes possible and our government exploits.
However, Julian Assange, Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden strike me as loose cannons driven more by ego concerns than anything else.
I'm not crazy about the power my government has over me and my fellow citizens, but at least the government has at least some accountability, on paper anyway.
These guys don't have any and from what I've seen, I don't like any of them. I didn't give them power and I object to them making these huge moves that I have no dobut put innocent people in jeopardy.
but at least the government has at least some accountability
There was a time when that was true, but evidently, not any more.
William,
No, I think they're all fingering their thumb drives and whispering "my precious."
Three drives were given to the Chinese elves, seven to the Russian dwarves, and nine to the American half-men who above all crave power. But who has "the one drive to rule them all."
I wonder if everyone else is as impressed with Obama's "Reset/Post-election increased flexibility" program with the Sovie....er..Russians as I am?
Forward!
If Snowden carried any laptops away with him and someone else now has them, I think it would be Wikileaks.
I doubt there was anything on them that would be new to the Chinese or the Russians, though of course they may have "asked" for copies, just to make sure.
AllenS said...
As a Vietnam vet, I consider John Kerry to be more of a traitor than Snowden.
I can dig it.
And, I think, for the same reasons.
creeley23 said...
My suspicion is that part of Snowden's motivation is the wish to be famous and special.
I'm sympathetic to a point for those blowing the whistle on the brave new world of data collection our technology makes possible and our government exploits.
However, Julian Assange, Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden strike me as loose cannons driven more by ego concerns than anything else.
Thread winner. And probably the best analysis of these guys you'll find.
Drago said...
I wonder if everyone else is as impressed with Obama's "Reset/Post-election increased flexibility" program with the Sovie....er..Russians as I am?
As much as with his Smart Diplomacy and his Moslem Outreach.
Come to think of it, with the DoJ's ability to turn on Sharyl Attkisson's computers in her home at night, and search them, Snowden would not have anything on his laptop that should not be there. Anything such would be on detached harddrives or flash memory sticks.
"“Over all, we have no information about him,” Dmitri Peskov, the spokesman for President Vladimir V. Putin, told Reuters early on Monday."
Putin and Obama are both having breakfast, and waiting for the papers to come out so they can read about what's up. I don't understand why powerful men like them wouldn't have the fastest paperboys and get their's before sunrise.
Snowden should formally apply for asylum to avoid persecution on evidence illegally obtained by the NSA.
I love watching those little sneaky men-in-black running around like headless chickens issuing threats and ultimatums to non-Americans who have a hard time putting up a straight face to entertain the Blusterer-in-Chief's "pointed" warnings.
I say, drone kill a few Hong Kongese to teach the little mother-f*ckers a lesson.
Macho man Putin would lose more face to Russia's client states than any good will he could gain from the blustering bumbling Great Satan if he relinquished Snowden.
You're all being duped.
THERE IS NO SNOWDEN! He's just the latest in computer animation. This is all a front to keep people from paying attention to the robot cats that will soon overrun the world.
What if Snowden has not actually been delivering anything to his various hosts? Even if he had nothing or said nothing, it would still be advantageous for China and Russia to pretend he is. And that goes for every country on the itinerary. Everybody loves the story, true or not.
Jay said...
It appears Chinese government agents went through those 4 laptops before Snowden left Honk Kong. Isn't that nice?
Hey, remember when the Bush NSA let a 29 year old joker run of with 4 laptops and a bunch of classified documents?
Me too!
=====================
A stupid partisan jibe that cast a President as All-Knowing God, and thus responsible for everything bad that "happened on His Divine Watch".
Stupid when applied to 9/11, stupid when applied to all the traitors like Hanssen, the Walker Family, Aldrich Ames on Reagans "watch". Stupid when similar jibes were made about how "Clinton should have known".
Stupid when laid on Obama for Newtown shootings, oil spills...
But assholes on the Left, Right, and the libertarian kooks all love the "All-Knowing President Failed!!" jibe.
Another part of the decline of America and democracy..
Russia tells the U.S. that a dangerous terrorist is in the U.S. and our government yawns and says its investigation shows he's no danger. Thereafter, he blows up the Boston Marathon.
The U.S. tells Russia that it has guy who has endangered global security. Russia responds, "bite me."
HAHAHAHAHA! That's good stuff!
creeley23 said...
"Julian Assange, Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden strike me as loose cannons driven more by ego concerns than anything else."
So are the NSA and Big Govt.: ego: we snoop, what can you do about it.
As the lady said: at this point what difference does it make. All the Snowden data are duplicated and triplicated by China, Russia, and anybody who has a computer. The embarrassed Great Satan who is no better than the latest authoritarians wants to intimidate other would be whistle blowers.
The headline an hour now appears announcing that Snowden left Hong Kong going to Moscow, Snowden is in Moscow, Snowden is leaving Moscow...and Snowden walked in Moscow, and Snowden talked in Moscow, and Snowden sat down in Moscow, etc.
But didn't Snowden take a dump in Moscow? (He already took one all over Obama.)
Armstrong and Getty, reading wiki about Ecuador, "The chief langauge of Ecuador is Spanish, just like California."
Road to Nowhere, Life During Wartime
(Trouble in transit, got through the roadblock
We blended in with the crowd
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines
I know that ain't allowed)
It's Talking Heads all the way down!
Mr. Snowden, his computers and everything stored in his brain are now in possession of the KGB. He will now fully understand the meaning of the word 'disappeared'.
If Snowden ends up staying in Russia I expect the Russians to treat him well. They've got every reason to let future whistleblowers/informants/spies to want to view Russia as a nice possible destination for the sources data.
...
Separately, I'm not buying the four laptop thing at this point. He claims to have smuggled stuff out on flash drive: How many flash drives to fill up the hard drive on a lap top? Even if he did get that much data, there are better storage media available, including small, elegant portable hard drives.
The "four laptops" thing is definitely misinformation. Who in hell will juggle around four laptops when everything in a computer can be downloaded to an iPad or a memory stick. Are we to believe that the Chinese who made all those computers; the Russians, breeders of hackers haven't already gotten into the laptops and duplicate anything and everything?
My Sherlock Holmes instinct tells me, Snowden took no laptops, not even one.
Yeah, Snowden has lost me with these antics and now I'm thinking he's just a really shitty spy.
elkh1,
The "four laptops" thing is definitely misinformation.
I suspect so as well. The Obama Administration wants Americans to believe he should be killed as quickly as possible, without asking questions about the Administration's story.
I'd feel a lot better about the guy if he hadn't shot off his mouth about hacking Chinese government computers. Then at least I could believe he spoke out to warn ordinary Americans what their own government is doing to them.
I could see it possible that Snowden has nothing, but our "secret" agencies are so unsure of their security that they assume he does, because he could. The only reason we don't see Snowden type leaks happening every day is that people are simply being loyal. I doubt you can keep anything very secure today. Finding, copying, and transmitting data is just too easy today.
"Yeah, Snowden has lost me with these antics and now I'm thinking he's just a really shitty spy."
Yea, I agree about him, but his expose' was valuable to the American people, as well as harmful. It's just not black and white. Even a traitor can still have a positive effect. They often expose weaknesses that need addressed or policies that you would not want your side to use even in pursuit of victory.
I don't think he started out to be a spy, but through his stupidity he became one de facto.
bagh20,
I doubt you can keep anything very secure today. Finding, copying, and transmitting data is just too easy today.
Baloney.
Obama's transcripts, and just about everything else about him, remain very secret and very securely so.
And who stepped forward to leak John F'ing Kerry's military records? Nobody. That's only done to Republicans or conservatives.
You just have to hire loyal people, and mercilessly squash them when they step out of line.
Obama (and the Left generally) does that. Most of the rest of America does not.
Loyalty, integrity, and honor are so yesterday.
Soon America will be, too.
Mariner, Those things are not being used, they aren't flying around from computer to computer as live data, so few people have access, it was easy to lock that stuff down and keep it there. And we are talking about things like the presence of the data or proof a program, not even the specific data itself. If we are counting on data security with data that is being used by operatives world wide, then we will be disappointed.
Ministry of Truth spokesman Jay Carney is on TV now giving us the "truth" for the day.
John "Gimme Some Truth" Lennon is rolling over in his grave.
This seems like an unwarranted manhunt. The WaPo and the Guardian have everything he has, yet they aren't considered security risks. I haven't heard the government ask them to turn over the information they have.
I don't put much stock in the argument "Look, he ran to Red China [or Cuba, or Venezuela, or Ecuador], so see, he must be a spy." The fact is there was always a very finite number of places he could run to for asylum, and that finite number continues to dwindle. Beggers can't be choosers. This looks like the weakest part of Snowden's little scheme: he didn't have his landing zone cleared ahead of time.
But that there are very few places in the world that will give him safe harbor is a humongous tell. It speaks of how wrong he was.
As a Vietnam vet, I consider John Kerry to be more of a traitor than Snowden.
I think Kerry's anti-war act was a sham; he was working undercover for Navy Intelligence at the time, and that is why he can't show us his service records.
Why didn't he just stay in the U.S., but hide. The video and statements we have seen could have been done in a Topeka home, or New Orleans hotel just as well.
Hagar and Mariner, I have his DD-214. Both of them. The first one was a sham, but not the original DD-214, because it should have said DD-214N. His second one did say DD-214N, but that was when he decided to report for duty. He'a a sack of shit.
Safest place for Snowden to hide would be Benghazi. No one in the admin has any idea that the place even exists anymore.
Indubitably; the question is what kind of shit,and from whose point of view.
Although if you told the #IRS that Snowden wants to open a Tea Party chapter, they'd find him before lunch tomorrow.
" it's ironic that the Snowden emerged to tell us about the nefarious, overwhelming, all-encompassing, and abusive surveillance powers of the United States, and the country can't find one man who made himself conspicuous."
It's not ironic at all if you recognize that these surveillance programs are really not designed to find terrorists or spies. They're designed to spy on Americans.
POSIWID
If you're not familiar with that term, go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does
Où sont les Neigedens d'antan?
(Catch-22)
The US govt continues to look ridiculous--a bunch of kindergarteners who wandered into the middle of a varsity football game. Kerry, Feinstein, all of them, so pathetic when confronted by powers that practice realpolitik. Making threats about how this or that will affect their relations with us--the only ones we ever hurt are our friends, whom we insultand undercut at every opportunity. Our adversaries, we just lick their boots. Why on Earth should Russia or China or, for that matter, Venezuela or Ecuador, be at all concerned about empty gestures from the Obama admin.?
Predictable and some of us predicted it, but so quickly!! Not even 4.5 yrs and we're an international joke.
"it's ironic that the Snowden emerged to tell us about the nefarious, overwhelming, all-encompassing, and abusive surveillance powers of the United States"
I thought you were going to mention the two places he went first...
"I suspect everyone!" Insp. Jacques Clouseau
The bullies of the world have no fear of our SISSY President.
Smart diplomacy - Obama style - in action.
What Martin said above--no one on the international stage trusts the United States nor its president. And they now realize the United States is a toothless tiger led by a feckless douchnozzle.
1) I agree with the commenters who've pointed out that this incident is absolute proof that the strong leaders of the world view Obama as impotent and ineffectual.
2) I'm sure that no Edward Snowden transitioned through Russia or left Hong Kong. But an "Eduardo Snowdeno" of Ecuador might have.
@AllenS,
Do you have proof that either of those DD-214's you have images of, was made in the year he supposedly left the service?
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