June 29, 2013

"Snowden is like a hot meat pie in your hands..."

"... even if you want to eat it very much, it’s very hot and maybe it’s better to throw it on the floor," said Igor M. Bunin, the director of the Center for Political Technologies in Moscow.
"To make a deal with America to turn Snowden over would be a slap in the face of public opinion because he is already a hero in Russia and part of the West. On the other hand, not turning him over destroys your relationship with America."
From a NYT article titled, "While N.S.A. Leaker Stays in Hiding, Russian TV Builds a Pedestal for Him." Excerpt:
“The Internet is an invention of the U.S. Ministry of Defense,” [said the pro-Kremlin analyst Vyacheslav A. Nikonov]. “Where is the Internet? Physically, it is in the United States. What is the Internet? It’s an American nongovernmental organization which is, of course, connected with the intelligence services of the United States.”...

“For Americans, human rights is a powerful tool for influencing other countries,” [said Aleksandr Prokhanov, a nationalist ideologue who has emerged as a leader in conservative thought]. “A country ‘violates human rights,’ and its president becomes a devil incarnate, the society destabilizes, the human rights issue is followed by attack planes, and the country is wiped out from the face of the earth.”

56 comments:

Rob said...

Bunin, unless you promise you won't throw it on the floor, I won't let you hold my hot meat in your hands.

kentuckyliz said...

After being rescued and reeducated, Winston will come home and resume normal life. He will be sitting one afternoon at the Chestnut Tree, having his daily fifth of gin, and he will have a moment of mental submission and in it he will find peace. As long as he has his daily fifth of Victory Gin.

Freeman Hunt said...

Civilized people deploy plates.

kentuckyliz said...

(Singing):
Hoooooooot Pockets

Freeman Hunt said...

Sure, he's "hiding," sure. I'll bet he "hides" for a long, long time. Like Hoffa.

kentuckyliz said...

Referring to the Jim Gaffigan bit. Took a minute for the ame to come to me.

kentuckyliz said...

All I need is a pint a day
If I ever get out of here

AprilApple said...

Mr. Bunin used the term "Hot meat pie" because he knew American law blogger Ann Althouse would use it in a headline on her blog.

David said...

So much for reset. Apparently Obama and Clinton have not improved relations much.

It's Bush's fault though.

edutcher said...

David took my thought.

But the Gray Lady's headline is interesting, "While N.S.A. Leaker Stays in Hiding, Russian TV Builds a Pedestal for Him".

Are they all hot to restart the Cold War because Vlad, Sexiest Man On Earth, dissed their Messiah?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Freeman Hunt said...

Couldn't they use the same plate Snowden served himself up on?

AprilApple said...

“For Americans, human rights is a powerful tool for influencing other countries,” [said Aleksandr Prokhanov, a nationalist ideologue who has emerged as a leader in conservative thought]. “A country ‘violates human rights,’ and its president becomes a devil incarnate, the society destabilizes, the human rights issue is followed by attack planes, and the country is wiped out from the face of the earth.”

What nuttiness is this?

Nonapod said...

Boy the Russians are dinning our on this one. Nothing gets them more excited than the chance to humiliate the U.S. Government. But honestly given its leadership and it's overall attitude I think our Government could use a little humiliation.

Freeman Hunt said...

The eating metaphor is a bit foreboding. Mother Russia desires to consume you. Or throw you on the floor. The latter might be more literal than figurative.

Freeman Hunt said...

Is there a site where we can play with metaphors all day? Oh, right. This one!

Joseph Blieu said...

I think old Aleksandr has his facts just about right.

Joseph Blieu said...

I think old Aleksandr has his facts just about right.

Joseph Blieu said...

no comment

gk1 said...

Can any of the house libs point out one, just one foreign policy accomplishment since taking over? Who is even marginally afraid of sticking their thumb in Obama's eye when they get an opportunity? Even Ecuador is getting in the act mooning him in public.

Ann Althouse said...

Beef pies
He was born next to the beef pies
Underneath Joni Mitchell's autographed picture
Right beside Elliot Robert's big bank book
Next to the boat
Where Crosby flushed away all his stash
And the cops got him in the boat and drove away
To the can where neil young slipped another disc...


Oh... sorry... meat pies just got me singing one of my old favorite songs....

somefeller said...

Sexy metaphor, Igor. Snowden better hope he doesn't find himself coming out of the pungent end of the post-Soviet alimentary canal.

Sorun said...

"So much for reset. Apparently Obama and Clinton have not improved relations much."

Obama is fortunate to have gotten that Nobel Prize for his '08 campaign rhetoric. He sure wouldn't win it for anything he's actually done on the job.

Bob Ellison said...

seriously, American analysts of foreign countries routinely have trouble with the fact that in most other countries, dishonesty is both assumed and not considered particularly immoral. Similarly, most foreign diplomats and policy analysts have trouble with the fact that in America, honesty is usually assumed as the default condition.

Thus, in Russia, any American POTUS is assumed to be lying in bad faith when advocating a particular position, much as in America, any Russian (even a professor) is assumed to be arguing in good faith even when saying something absurd.

It's a cultural misunderstanding that causes first-order problems.

Chip Ahoy said...

Also, conversely, the opposite way of looking at that is like when you sip milkshake too hard and get brainfreeze, even if you want to sip it more very much maybe it is better to cast it to the floor and leap high in the air to come down stomping the container with both boots to splatter the remaining contents all over the place so that it can not be taken up even by pets and if it was to be licked up by pets, it'd be warm up by then anyway so you win. You see, like such choices as these, perhaps are better to make.

Palladian said...

Admiral Halsey notified me
He had to have a berth or he couldn't get to sea
I had another look and I had a cup of tea and butter pie

Butter pie?

(The butter wouldn't melt so I put it in the pie)

Hands across the water!

(water)

Heads across the sky!

Palladian said...

Live a little, be a gypsy, get around!

Get around

Get your feet up off the ground,
Live a little, get around!

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

So when is Obama's pet general going to be charged for revealing the computer virus we put on Iranian computers? That seems to be a much more serious breach of security than Snowden or the Fox reporter.

edutcher said...

gk1 said...

Can any of the house libs point out one, just one foreign policy accomplishment since taking over? Who is even marginally afraid of sticking their thumb in Obama's eye when they get an opportunity? Even Ecuador is getting in the act mooning him in public.

To ask the question is to answer it.

somefeller said...

Sexy metaphor, Igor. Snowden better hope he doesn't find himself coming out of the pungent end of the post-Soviet alimentary canal.

No, the Russkies are very good to their defectors.

Worst case, he ends up in Guayaquil; best case, in a dacha the Black Sea with hot and cold running pole dancers.

edutcher said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

So when is Obama's pet general going to be charged for revealing the computer virus we put on Iranian computers? That seems to be a much more serious breach of security than Snowden or the Fox reporter.

You mean Hoss Cartwright?

Are we sure this isn't just another of the many generals (McChrystal, Petraeus, Mattis) who are sacked because they refuse to kowtow to the Generalissimo?

elkh1 said...

The US default public opinions would be against Snowden for the NSA if the Obama regime had not lost its trustworthiness on its IRS's shenanigans. Once the govt. lost its credibility, whatever it says become suspect. Fool me once, and all that...

Unfortunately, there ain't a whole lot little people over the world could do to their overlords.

Bender said...

Russia has had nothing but contempt for this Administration, and the U.S. by extension, ever since Hillary showed contempt for Bush, and the U.S. by extension, with her Reset Button.

Ha ha, Hillary. You reap what you sow.

pm317 said...

These Russians are really into similes. Putin recently said that getting involved with Obama about Snowden was like sheering a pig, lot of squealing and not much fleece.

Interesting.. I am familiar with something similar like that hot meat pie saying, in my own native tongue. It goes liek this: 'it is like having hot ghee (clarified butter) in your mouth, can't swallow it and won't spit it out' (because it is expensive and a luxury).

Baron Zemo said...

This contempt will change when we elect a real American as President.

Baron Zemo said...

Just as Jerk-off Jimmy Carter was followed by Reagan.

Methadras said...

For once, can people stop talking in euphimisms, allegory's, idioms, and metaphors. Just speak plainly and simply.

edutcher said...

Baron Zemo said...

This contempt will change when we elect a real American as President.

Just as Jerk-off Jimmy Carter was followed by Reagan.


And how Wag the Dog Willie was followed by Dubya.

Always seems to that way, though, don't it?

Lem said...

"Snowden is like a hot meat pie in your hands..."

Something a 'creepy-ass cracker' rapist from Russia would say.

YoungHegelian said...

“For Americans, human rights is a powerful tool for influencing other countries,” [said Aleksandr Prokhanov, a nationalist ideologue who has emerged as a leader in conservative thought]

By Russian/Soviet standards of paranoia, this is positively benign. At least, after Iraq, Afghanistan, & Libya, there's some truth to it.

Hell, the damn Soviets thought we were wreckers & saboteurs when we were over there feeding their goddamn starving kids hot cocoa.

YoungHegelian said...

By the way, is it just me, or, in all the times in my life when I've been presented with something that's too hot to eat, I never, ever responded to said edible by throwing it on the floor.

I guess that's jes' my Southern raisin' showin' though.

David said...

“A country ‘violates human rights,’ and its president becomes a devil incarnate, the society destabilizes, the human rights issue is followed by attack planes...."

If only.

Sam L. said...

The Russkies have a relationship with us? Anything like a toxic couple about to break up, even though they never went out together?

Freeman Hunt said...

No, the Russkies are very good to their defectors.

What makes you think that? Also, what makes you think Snowden is a defector and not merely a person who is going to receive/is receiving a hostile interrogation?

kentuckyliz said...

Hot meat pie in your hands? Is this gay slang?

The traitor wouldn't melt
So we put him in the pie

Snowden across the water
Snowden rumored in the sky

Nichevo said...

Freeman, you have some cred, so instead of telling you you're crazy, I'll ask you what do you mean. A hostel interrogation? How-what are you thinking? that perhaps Snowden was lured with dancing girls out of Hawaii and then out of China and into Russia and this was all trickery and he really didn't mean it?

I mean he may not have taken a sufficiently long spoon to sup with the devil, but, um, I'm guessing he could have flown from Hong Kong to anywhere else. Nobody made him come to Russia as far as I know.

Robert Redford told him what a real American hero would do. Go to the New York Times. They'll print it. Of course they'll print it. Condor says so. Why wouldn't they print it?

To flee-to New Zealand maybe or Sweden, okay. To China? Russia? Um, no.

Freeman, do you not get the incentives here, where the Russians, as did Soviets before them, realize that you want to encourage traitors from the other side, not discourage them? He will get money, he will get women, or little boys, he will get alcohol, he will get drugs, gourmet food, whatever it is that keeps him happy and talking to their debriefers. Oh, you could say that he will be interrogated, but it will be the soft kind, I assure you.

John said...

Why is my first thought when reading "Snowden is like a hot meat pie in your hands" of Titus?

Titus, are you there? Or are you in P-Town enjoying all those hot meat pies?

John Henry

Oso Negro said...

Ann Althouse said...
Beef pies
He was born next to the beef pies
Underneath Joni Mitchell's autographed picture
Right beside Elliot Robert's big bank book
Next to the boat
Where Crosby flushed away all his stash
And the cops got him in the boat and drove away
To the can where neil young slipped another disc...

Oh... sorry... meat pies just got me singing one of my old favorite songs..



He he he. Professor, you are a cultural-fucking-wonder! And I wonder how many of your readers instantly recognized the lyrics as "Billy the Mountain" from Just Another Band from LA.

edutcher said...

Freeman Hunt said...

No, the Russkies are very good to their defectors.

What makes you think that?


Philby, McLean, etc.

Give me a couple of counter-examples.


Also, what makes you think Snowden is a defector and not merely a person who is going to receive/is receiving a hostile interrogation?

Why would they be hostile?

He didn't have to fly there. You can fly direct from Hong Kong to Ecuador.

And, as has been suggested, he may have been working for them all along.

AllenS said...

If the Russians were smart, they'd underplay what they learned about us spying on them and make a statement that they were very surprised how much Barry was spying on his own people. They'd get most Americans on their side.

Aridog said...

...hot meat pie...?

More like "hot turd pie" ...e.g., bullshit wrapped in pastry to look like a meat pie.

Does anyone reading here, or anywhere, think that the Russians, and the Chinese before them, have not already gone through everything on Snowden's laptops? He is essentially in "soft custody" and and every bit of his baggage and personal effects have been thoroughly gone through. Heck, you can't get out of a US airport just going from Poughkeepsie to Peoria without likely investigation of your stuff.

So just what "new" has Snowden got to reveal? IMO, nothing.

Has anyone here or elsewhere seen or heard of any evidence Snowden has produced to support his claims of government activity?

Snowden = SQUIRREL.

Freeman Hunt said...

He said that aside from the information he was revealing, he knew many things that he would never reveal. I would not be surprised if he thought he knew many things he would never reveal, but I have no doubt that those holding him in Russia will persuade him to reveal those things whether he wants to or not.

Say he went there because he's idealistic and naive. "Oh, I'll be safe in Russia because they don't like the United States, so they won't hand me over." Of course, as others have written already, they've gone through everything on his computers and other digital devices. But there's no reason that they'd stop there. They'd make sure that they had everything in his head too.

If he's an actual defector, that's simpler, but that may not be the case.

Freeman Hunt said...

This makes it sound as if he might have been fooled into going to Russia after being led to believe that he could head to Ecuador from there.

edutcher said...

Ecuador's strongman is a Chavez wannabe, but he isn't up to taking on the US just yet, but Snowden's leanings seem to be toward the Commie side of the aisle.

We'll see.

Aridog said...

...hot meat pie...?

More like "hot turd pie" ...e.g., bullshit wrapped in pastry to look like a meat pie.

Does anyone reading here, or anywhere, think that the Russians, and the Chinese before them, have not already gone through everything on Snowden's laptops?


He's already said he let the Red Chinese examine his laptops

Aridog said...

edutcher said ...

He's already said he let the Red Chinese examine his laptops

No doubt...but I suspect the "he let" part is embellishment. It has been reported that the Russians "separated" him from his stuff upon arrival as well. I seriously doubt Snowden had any choices in these matters.

Nichevo said...

Okay, and we are supposed to believe that Mr Genius I Beat The NSA Snowden didn't realize that his stuff would be gone through? He hasn't encrypted it, or obfuscated it, or done something that will get past them?

Snowden is a post turtle. we don't know where he came from or how you got where he is. All we know is that he didn't get there by himself. This goes deeper than one man.

kentuckyliz said...

If "hot meat pie" is gay slang, it would refer to a very attractive uncut male. The foreskin is the pastry, get it?

He could also be called a Hot Pocket.

I am taking the Titus role since he is MIA. Yes, I know I have an outrageous mind. I assure you, I started out life innocent. At least after my infant baptism. It's been all downhill from there. Ah well, I have a reset button (the Sacrament of Reconciliation).

Sacrament of Reconciliation could refer to the Zimmerman show trial.

Nichevo said...

Yes, Liz, I know you're a wild one, that's what intrigues me. Sadly the reverse doesn't seem to be true. Perhaps it is the lack of pastry, all I can offer you is a thick juicy piece of meat.