May 22, 2013

"This is courage of the highest order, it sounds as if these members of the public are not soldiers, not policemen, not people whose duties demand this..."

"... they are extremely courageous people and that courage deserves to be recognised at the highest level."

As the police took 20 minutes to arrive, some women did extraordinary things.

Mrs Loyau-Kennett was a passenger on a number 53 bus which was travelling past the scene, and jumped off to check the soldier’s pulse.

“Being a cub leader I have my first aid so when I saw this guy on the floor I thought it was an accident then I saw the guy was dead and I could not feel any pulse. And then when I went up there was this black guy with a revolver and a kitchen knife, he had what looked like butcher’s tools and he had a little axe, to cut the bones, and two large knives and he said 'move off the body’.

“So I thought 'OK, I don’t know what is going on here’ and he was covered with blood. I thought I had better start talking to him before he starts attacking somebody else. I thought these people usually have a message so I said 'what do you want?’... I started to talk to him and I started to notice more weapons and the guy behind him with more weapons as well. By then, people had started to gather around. So I thought OK, I should keep him talking to me before he noticed everything around him...."
Would you jump off a bus in this situation? Would you engage an apparent murderer in conversation in the hope of distracting him from other people?

68 comments:

bpm4532 said...

I hope that I would and that I would have some sort of weapon to use, but the anti-gun folks seem determined keep you from bearing arms.

The "peaceful" Muslims had better get a hold of this fucking problem and ALL the fucking Muslim holy men had better start shouting long and loud from pulpits and with every word they speak that this sort of behavior condemns Muslims to an eternity of torture. Let the "peaceful" Muslims set upon these scum and start dragging them through the streets.

dcm said...

Why did you delete your previous post?

Pogo said...

Oh fer chrissake. Blah blah blah.

The man needed to be shot. What happened to the Brits?

Fucking sheep, waiting to be shorn or slaughtered.

Strelnikov said...

"Unfortunately, the government may never get to the bottom of their mysterious motive. Wide spread institutional racism? The pressures of enduring Islamophobia? Lack of adequate self-esteem due to reduced spending on social programs? Understandable rage brought on by colonial actions in the 19th century? El Cid's defeat of the Moors in the 14th century? Revenge for the atrocities committed by the Crusaders? Certainly, any one of these would justify the acts, but which one was it? I give up. We'll never know."

But I repeat myself.

Strelnikov said...

"The "peaceful" Muslims had better get a hold of this fucking problem and ALL the fucking Muslim holy men had better start shouting long and loud from pulpits and with every word they speak that this sort of behavior condemns Muslims to an eternity of torture. Let the "peaceful" Muslims set upon these scum and start dragging them through the streets."

Nonsense. This is like saying there are conservative Dem's in congress who will rise up and save the day. Polls usually show about 20 to 30% of all muslims approve of this. Depending on who you're talking with, they claim between 1 and 1.4B muslims worldwide. You do the math.

Ann Althouse said...

"Why did you delete your previous post?"

I didn't.

Michael K said...

She reminds me of a woman who was taken hostage by a violent killer some years ago. There was great fear for her life but she had talked to him about God and good and evil until he surrendered. And apologized.

Marshal said...

...."Would you jump off a bus in this situation? Would you engage an apparent murderer in conversation in the hope of distracting him from other people?

Mrs Loyau-Kennett was not the only woman to show extraordinary courage. Others shielded the soldier’s body as the killers stood over them.

I'm glad it worked out, and it was courageous. But I would not risk my life - without a weapon and facing two armed murderers - for someone's dead body.

Illuninati said...

She was very brave, but was probably not in much danger. Anyone who knows the history of Islam all the way back to Mohammad will realize that this woman was fairly safe. Muslims rarely kill women. Women are viewed as booty. They take them as slaves, and if they are pretty they will be used as ssex slaves. This comes directly from the Koran.

Aridog said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bpm4532 said...

Only Nixon could go to China, and only Muslims can solve this problem. They just need some incentive.

bpm4532 said...

Those Boston boys seemed to be very peaceful. Until they weren't.

Paul said...

Nah.. I'd cap his ass. As Eli Wallach said in, "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly", "if you are going to shoot, shoot, but don't talk".

He said what after he blasted the bad guy who was a motor mouth.

Illuninati said...

BPM4532 said:
"Only Nixon could go to China, and only Muslims can solve this problem. They just need some incentive."

What incentive can you give them which is greater than what Allah offers them -- eternal life with unlimited wine and 70 virgins who return to virginity each time they are deflowered?

virgil xenophon said...

@bpm452/

Yes, if one reads the memoires of British Mid-East old hands from the Foreign Office to BP oil executives and everything in between one of their main overriding commentaries is how Muslims they had known for years as friendly, even-tempered work associates, employees, friends of the family, etc. could turn instantly into homicidal maniacs at a moments notice in the defense of the smallest slight to Islam..

Cedarford said...

While the media will push the usual "Hero Narrative" though not as hard in the UK as the USA where every event invariably becomes mass therapeutic mourning and Homage to the Heroes time....

while
good on the ladies!

You have to notice about 60 people standing around and watching the two Islamoids hacking the white soldier apart.

No one interceeded, threw anything at them, or even approached to threaten them from a safe distance.

Sheep. Or fellow immigrants that were just showing how strong diversity is.

Palladian said...

Most brave, good British men were culled during WWII.

Emil Blatz said...

Expect more of this shit to come down in a country with no concealed carry (and no unconcealed carry for that matter), and a significant chunk of the population who are Muslims. Oh and that colonial idea from 200 years ago, that's not helping now either.

This was pretty horrific, but you realize how far they have to go when they celebrate the fact that someone applied bandages and pressure to the mortally wounded fellow. A few well placed rounds in the middle of the attack would have been preferable. But, if I understand it correctly, you can only own long guns in the UK, and not all of their police carry. Absolutely crazy. We'll see how fast they can learn.

Rusty said...

Would you jump off a bus in this situation? Would you engage an apparent murderer in conversation in the hope of distracting him from other people?

I don't know. Put me in that situation and then lets see.

edutcher said...

There's a vignette in "Roughing It" where the stagecoach is stopped by road agents and one man advises everyone to do nothing for the safety of the womenfolk on board and another replies they were usually the ones who resisted the most.

shirley elizabeth said...

It wasn't the police that took twenty minutes to get there. It was the armed police. There were police there, they just couldn't do a damn thing because they were out-gunned.

bagoh20 said...

I wish I would be that brave, but sadly I doubt I would. I would likely for better or worse reason that he was clearly dead, and that it would be a waste to sacrifice myself at that point. If I was young again, I might be braver knowing I could run away, but now I'd just be an easy addition to their demonstration. I never felt the need for a gun until I noticed I wasn't likely to be able to maintain my successful record in fighting young men any longer. This is one of the worst parts about aging for a man - becoming less able to protect others physically.

bagoh20 said...

Women are usually more confrontational in such situations of clearly dangerous men, because they rarely pay a price for confronting a man in public. Men know that the better armed guy will likely attack without reservation when confronted like that. We've all seen women pounding on a guy while he ignores her, just to pick a fight with her boyfriend who is just standing there.

cubanbob said...

What incentive can you give them which is greater than what Allah offers them -- eternal life with unlimited wine and 70 virgins who return to virginity each time they are deflowered?

Take a page from the KGB and kill their families. Back in 81 or 82 some terrorists kidnapped a couple of Soviet diplomats in Beirut and killed them. The KGB tracked them down and killed them and their families. They had no trouble from them for years. On e these bastards understand that we are willing to utterly destroy them the bullshit will end quickly.

Sheridan said...

Aridog - I have no words to express how I feel about your admission at 1842h. I had no idea. My life experiences in service to my country are part of a different realm than your experiences. Please know that I've always appreciated your comments based on your life experiences and insights. Your comments about Steve Miller (IRS Commissioner) resonated with me. And now I learn from your own words the basis for the emotional depth of your remarks. I have no words to express myself except - God bless you.

dcm said...

@AA. Sorry then. I must have been thinking of a different site. I apologize.

Skyler said...

Clearly, we have not killed enough of them.

This is not new behavior. This is how about a dozen terrorists can control an entire town. They march into a town and they pull a few people out of their homes, and butcher them in front of as many people as dramatically as they can. Suddenly, tens of thousands of people in the city do whatever they are told.

It's about time we start taking this threat as seriously as they mean it. We need to completely eradicate this brand of islam from the Earth.

dcm said...

Skyler- How? Be specific. And we don't want to create more than we kill.

Paul said...

"It's about time we start taking this threat as seriously as they mean it. We need to completely eradicate this brand of islam from the Earth."

As long as the anti-West, multi-culti, third-world-loving liberal democrats are running the show it ain't gonna happen.

Look at the reaction to the "youths" rioting in Stockholm because of "police brutality" and the utter intransigence of the fools who simply cannot accept the fact that it is a Muslim problem.

Civilization cannot survive under either the neo-marxist left or the Islamic Caliphate.

Unfortunately both are in ascendance and the pro-Western Civilization conservatives are in decline.

David said...

I'm doubting that I would be that brave and decisive. But you never know for sure.

Freeman Hunt said...

That woman is a hero.

Oso Negro said...

Well, good for the British women, but it does prompt the question of what the hell became of the British men? The ultimate level of local civilization depends entirely on what the adult men tolerate. If you are going to stand by idly while a British soldier is butchered before your eyes in your own land you are not much of a man to my mind. Somehow the fight has apparently been bred out of them.

And while we are at it, who wants 72 virgins anyway? For a good time, give me one reliable woman who knows what she is about.

RecChief said...

This doesn't apply to England, but if it happened here, you bet I would. I'm one of those bitter clingers with one of those baaaaaad permits, I train to use it, a lot, and I train others to get theirs. Courts be damned, I'd rather be judged by 12.....you know the rest

Methadras said...

Skyler said...

Clearly, we have not killed enough of them.


Let's say for example that even 10% of the entirety of Islam is radicalized, then we can't kill enough of them. That's roughly 100 - 110 million muslims that we need bullets for and DHS has already bought them for target practice and stuff.

Broomhandle said...

1. Develop domestic energy resources so we need absolutely nothing from them.

2. Keep them out of our country. When the ones that are here indulge their barbaric bullshit prosecute them fully and without fear or excuses.

Methadras said...

dcm said...

Skyler- How? Be specific. And we don't want to create more than we kill.


You kill them, that's how and then when there are any other big mouths that protest, you kill them too. Personally I would willingly take one for the team if I could eradicate every single muslim on the face of the earth. Just gone. I'll take myself to the Hague post haste right afterwards with a giant fat smile on my face. I can live with that easily. The world would be a better place for it.

EMD said...

Remember, like C4, to put scare quotes around the word hero.

Freeman Hunt said...

What's become of British men? Well, if you were going purely by this scene, you might say,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

dcm said...

Methadras-
Big talk big fella. Calling for genocide and the like. "when there are any other big mouths that protest, you kill them too." I think that you are a big weiner dog who sits on the couch. woof, woof. scary.

virgil xenophon said...

I said on the previous post on this subj below that if you wonder what has happened to British men all one needs do is read the British newspapers daily--as Brits defending their homes against armed intruders are daily reported arrested and hauled off to jail for their efforts while the miscreants are released at trail or given suspended sentences while the owner is charged with 10 years. Were I a Brit I wouldn't have lifted a finger either--too much risk of 10 years in Dartmoor..

It's THAT bad..

AprilApple said...

Virgil..
That only adds to my opinion that the Brits, overall, are exceptionally stupid.

Scott M said...

From the article...

Moments later they were cut down in a hail of bullets believed to be fired by a woman marksman.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but the phrase "woman marksman" has got to be a low point in the PC-wars. It seems like they are taking pains to make sure we know it was yet another woman that brought these two guys down. Narrative building, it seems.

Doesn't matter if the marks-person (lol) was male or female. It took 20 MINUTES for armed police to show up.

virgil xenophon said...

ScottM/

"20 MINUTES"

LOL. When old Sheriff Harry Lee was in charge of Jefferson Parish, La (the other half of New Orleans metro across the street)his people had a standard of a 3 min response time ANYWHERE in the Parish and the avg was half that.

Cedarford said...

Methadras said...
Skyler said...

Clearly, we have not killed enough of them.

Let's say for example that even 10% of the entirety of Islam is radicalized, then we can't kill enough of them. That's roughly 100 - 110 million muslims that we need bullets for and DHS has already bought them for target practice and stuff.

========================
You don't do true, industrial scale attrition of the enemy with bullets or spears and arrows before that.
You control their infrastructure..they bitch you cut off the food, water, noawdays electricity and watch them die in droves until they submit.
If you can't control their infrastructure, you destroy it with bombing..with little bombs and artie ...

or Very Big Bombs.

You simultaneously wipe out their military assets and end their infiltration into territory you control - unless they pledge to submit to the laws and mores of your culture and don't act up.

It is a time when serious shit goes down and you make a call that all the Western niceities like Geneva, Hague, lawyers stopping military action by waiving paper and talking about Sacred Parchments goes away.

Because it's Them or Us Time.

ErnieG said...

During the 20 minutes before the police arrived, if anyone had gone after the assailants with even a shovel or a broomstick, he would probably be facing charges and jail time.

Skyler said...

It's not genocide if they do something to earn their deaths. Then it is justice.

Religious fanatics don't change their minds. The only way to eliminate them as a threat is to eliminate their minds.

But if they agree to change and denounce their murderous intent, then if we are convinced of their sincerity we should consider sparing them. Otherwise, their religion should be exempt from protection of the first amendment and eradicated from the earth. One at a time or wholesale.

John Lynch said...

There were a billion Communists, too.

Then one day there wasn't.

Islam, to the extent it becomes political, is hurting itself.

Hagar said...

Just a case of "workplace violence."

Michael K said...

Blogger Palladian said...

"Most brave, good British men were culled during WWII."

I disagree. It was WWI. Certainly the upper classes pretty much lost all the young.

cubanbob said...

Anglo-American blockade of Germany in 1918 resulted in enough hunger in the Germany that the Germans signed the armistice. Germany of 1918 was more advanced industrially than most of the Muslim world today. If the West were to get seriously pissed it can starve the Muslim world into submission.

wyo sis said...

dcm
You might create them but I don't. What's this we?

John Lynch said...

Managing the decay and collapse of Arab civilization is the work of decades. The whole point is to avoid a world war, not start one.

Darrell said...

The scene of the attack is just 200 yards from Woolwich Barracks.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329236/Woolwich-attack--Moment-heroic-woman-tries-remonstrate-knife-wielding-soldier-killer-police-arrived-scene.html#ixzz2U5jzQsRx
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William said...

Never a soccer yob around when you need him......The Muslim was holding a blood drenched meat cleaver and talking in a calm, measured voice. How do you hack someone to death and talk about it immediately afterward in such a way?

Kirk Parker said...

"Let the "peaceful" Muslims set upon these scum and start dragging them through the streets."

OK, this is the very first comment. With all due respect, Why does anyone else think they have something to contribute to to the discussion?


Michael K.,

"She reminds me of a woman who was taken hostage by a violent killer some years ago..."

Yes, that was the guy in Georgia who overpowered the deputy sheriff escorting him into the courtroom, and iirc killed another person during his escape..."

Ah, yes, this is indeed the case.

stlcdr said...

Firstly - according to this excerpt, and in her own words - she did not jump off the bus to confront terrorists: she witnessed an an individual who was obviously in need of (medical) help.

This is not necessarily 'brave' in the final situation, but is certainly a confident act, with positive decision making, that very few are capable of performing.

It is only later that she, herself, is now confronted with an armed individual, while she is unarmed. I would hazard that because of her initial response, she also has the mental acuity to deal with this situation.

Martinkh said...

There was NO courage here, not by women or anyone else. Even this BS story is a further attempt to emasculate men, in a nation of emasculated men. This attack took how long, and these guys were still standing when the police arrived?

If someone had jumped these guys after the fact or possibly during it with a tire iron, they would have faced criminal charges for "assault with an offensive weapon".

England has gone how Democrats want the US to go- the only power is police power, and they are too late to do anything.

Freeman Hunt said...

How is the woman not courageous? After seeing that the man was dead, she purposely engaged armed murderers in hopes of keeping them pacified until help arrived.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Skyler,

Religious fanatics don't change their minds. The only way to eliminate them as a threat is to eliminate their minds.

Do they not? It seems to me that there are some famous counterexamples. Saul of Tarsus/St. Paul comes to mind, for one.

Martinkh said...

This sounds like the Jessica Lynch story, PC BS to put some spin into a story that otherwise goes against the liberal narrative. And standing around talking to someone who is waiting for cops to send him to paradise is not quite as courageous as taking him out or saving the victim from assault, no one did that.

gutless said...

Composite masculinity difficulties?

gutless said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aridog said...

Full disclosure...I have deleted my remark at 6:42 PM yesterday. The simple reason is that it served no purpose except to reveal things about myself unnecessarily, which I am not proud of, and potentially expose me to further inquiry. Whatever is cached, so be it. I'm merely decreasing the volume of my own incrimination.

The topic of this thread, the topic derived about how we react to violence and aggression [and fail to see non-aggression as we assess blame], and that one on 18/14 year old sex pushed three of my most sensitive buttons hard. From now on I promise to count to 10, twice, before any further emotional outbursts.

EMD said...

Further proof of the decline of England. THIS is the poll question offered by the Daily Mail in relation to the story:

Should British servicemen be allowed to wear their uniforms on the street after Woolwich killing?


traditionalguy said...

The Brits are a courageous lot, but they believe their Monarchy will save them...that's what the Muslim man was bragging that he knew better then the people...no orotection comes from Kings, rather kings use us and play their imaginary games like Prince Charles does.

No wonder the Brits with money are setting up escape destinations in The States where we have guns to protect ourselves and them too. But then they complain that we don't trust The King Obama I's Monarchy enough.

JAL said...

In many cities in the USA (not NYC, of course) the attackers who self identified as Islamic violent jihadists would have been dead in a New York minute, before they killed Lee Rigby.(But not by firearms in NYC or DC, of course. Nor Chicago.) But CCW does serve a useful purpose.

(Guess the folks on the street never heard about Flight 93.)

Random said...

Lee Rigby was almost certainly killed when the terrorists drove their car into him without warning - I suspect the beheading was mainly to make sure/for effect. I'm not sure how concealed carry would have stopped that, though I'm curious to hear your theories.

And a thought on the criticism of British gun laws (which I'm ambivalent about myself, but there are two sides to most arguments) - did anybody making the criticism stop and think the laws may have been the reason why these guys were forced to carry out the attack with meat cleavers rather than machine guns? I'm not convinced facilitating the latter would have resulted in fewer casualties.

EMD said...

did anybody making the criticism stop and think the laws may have been the reason why these guys were forced to carry out the attack with meat cleavers rather than machine guns?

What's the meat cleaver murder rate in Chicago?