April 19, 2013

"No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone."

New policy announced today.

Gay adults are still excluded.

I note that "sexual orientation or preference" refers to a person's status or feelings, not behavior. And yet, I'm presuming the Boy Scouts reject all sexual acting out by youths, so that hasn't been the basis of discrimination.

93 comments:

mccullough said...

Good progress

chickelit said...

What about Webelos and Cub Scouts?

Seeing Red said...

If the parents don't make the kid a prop, who would know?

Scott M said...

What does that say about the adult that wants to be a scout master.

What if a married gay couple want to be scout masters together?

What if a guy and his boyfriend and their girlfriend all want to get married and be scoutmasters?

What if...

Scott M said...

Did I miss the "gay adults still included" in the original post or was that add after, lol...

chickelit said...

Will there be new merit badges forthcoming based on media role models: interior decorating, gourmet cooking, fashion police work?

Expat(ish) said...

Man, people don't think before they talk and/or quote people who talk: By refusing to consider an end to its ban on gay and lesbian parents, the Boy Scouts have missed an opportunity to exercise leadership and usher the organization back to relevancy," said Rich Ferraro, Vice President of Communications at GLAAD, which promotes lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights.

There is no ban on gay parents - there are several "moms" and "dads" couples in our troop, nobody cares. They come on campouts and events and are awesome. And like 95% of parents they don't server as formal scoutmasters. The big difference is that they aren't allowed to.

But that boat is sailing soon. BSA have now committed to figuring out sleeping, buddy, and X-deep leadership rules for the wide array of hetero and LGBTU combinations soon to be found at camp.

Oh, and my prediction: girls in boy scouts before the end of the year.

Gonna be interesting.

-XC

bpm4532 said...

what about girls?

Lem said...

Watch the militant gays cry foul.

bpm4532 said...

my sister was envious that the boy scouts went camping each month, but the girl scouts didn't.

Chip Ahoy said...

We had a gay scout once but he didn't last. We set up camp, arranged our tents and built a fire and the guy goes, "You mean this is camping out? I thought camping out would be Sunday tea dance at Trax."

Jane said...

A couple thoughts: the would-be Eagle Scout who was denied the rank because of being gay was actually turned down after he openly said, "yeah, I'm gay and an atheist and my Eagle project was a gay-tolerance display" -- the article I read seemed to indicate he was also over 18, but it wasn't clear if this was initially the case, or only after delays with his application. It kind of sounded like the sort of kid who in middle school and early high school earned enough badges to be almost-there, then left and rejoined to be a test case.

Part of the problem with Girl Scouts is that they're split up into multiple groups by age, Daises, Brownies, Juniors, Cadettes, Seniors, and Ambassadors, which I suspect means that they're disorganized when it comes to activities where you really need a larger group, especially when you're at a smaller school. Last week was Scout Sunday at church -- and only one Girl Scout showed.

Inga said...

I don't think we shall see anyone here object. So it's a bit of good news for the commentariat today.

jacksonjay said...


Is Professor Althouse a member of AAUW? Do they allow men in their organization?

jimbino said...

The only merit badge I got was in masturbation, which i was trained in as a tenderfoot by more senior scouts. I will continue to hold their feet to the fire until they accept all gays and atheists without reservation.

Shame on the Scouts and all who support them! If the Girl Scouts, who are not so prissy, accepted boys, that might spell the end of the Boy Scouts. Good Riddance!

Mitchell the Bat said...

Now's the time for the Boy Scouts to start selling cookies.

tim maguire said...

It's a very small step in the right direction but a step nonetheless. It's inevitable that sooner or later there will be gay scout masters (openly, I mean. We all know there are already closeted gay scoutmasters), the only question is when.

Fewer and fewer people oppose homosexuality enough to discriminate against them at the same time that more and more people are wiling to take a stand against discrimination.

CEO-MMP said...

All that means is they have to be more creative when they kick the little queers out, right?

X said...

looking back I think one of my scoutmasters was gay. and he was a great scoutmaster. the world was less gay back then and people didn't think about it much. mostly we made stupid jokes about our head scoutmaster, Scoutmaster Bates.

edutcher said...

jimbino makes an ass of himself yet again.

Talk about effort!

As to the decision, there are damned few kids who are "gay" at 10.

Quiet, shy, sensitive (music, art, etc.)?

Sure, but the only people who have "gay" 10 year olds are jimbino and the She Devil of the SS - the true designer children.

Inga said...

I don't think we shall see anyone here object.

Actually, we can. Just because some psychotic Lefty wants to prove how "in" he/she is by claiming their kid is homosexual does not make that a good thing for the kid.

And good on the Scouts that they learned their lesson about predators.

NAMBLA hardest hit.

Expat(ish) said...

Ann -

Scouts are supposed to be "morally straight" which is widely understood to also mean "chaste."

It's not explicitly in the code: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/boyscout/bsoath.asp

I would also note that the buddy system and two-deep leadership are designed to prevent sexual situations from occurring. (Well, the buddy system also help when you get lost :-) Now the system is going to require a lot of redesign to keep all the boys safe - G, T, T, and U.

-XC

Alex said...

What a hypocrisy. So they're telling gay scouts that they won't discriminate against them, but they will against scout leaders. Why would any self-respecting gay boy want to join BSA?

Jay said...

Gay adults are still excluded.

Good.

Since gay males engage in pedophilia at higher rates than straight males, this is probably a wise decision.

And, if the state can restrict marriage to couples, meaning two adults, then the Boy Scouts can certainly exclude gay adults.

Isn't restricting fun?

John said...

If girls can join the Boy Scouts, will boys be allowed to join the Girl Scouts?

If not, why not?

My recollection of the Boy Scouts is that they are pretty straightlaced when it comes to sex. Even sex with oneself.

So even if the scout is over 18, I think sex is still forbidden, gay or straight.

John Henry

Ignorance is Bliss said...

If boy scouts were coed, there would be a certain amount of the older scouts sneaking off into the woods to have sex. There would certainly be cases of older boys pressuring younger girls into doing stuff.

Since gays are no different than straights, except orientation, then I assume that there would be similar issues.

Revenant said...

Atheist children are still cordially invited to go pound sand. :)

Robert Zaleski said...

Sorry this is a bunch of BS. Read

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/MembershipStandards/Resolution/Resolution.aspx

Don't know how you say it's an organization in which sex shouldn't be promoted and morals and ethics are being formed and in the same breath add an ammendment that says this behavior must be allowed.

How does someone who is 6-15 know they are Homosexual? Sorry, my kids won't even be allowed to date until they are ready to get married. That's the purpose.

It's a huge contradiction to have an organization committed to forming kids. Forming them to WHAT?!?

John said...

Rephrase my last. Sloppy writing.

Girls are not currently allowed in the Boy Scouts.

My question was about if they are in the future.

John Henry

Lem said...

I objecf because inga says i must.

Scott M said...

There would certainly be cases of older boys pressuring younger girls into doing stuff.

These days, it would be a two-way street.

TerriW said...

My six year old very much wants to be a Boy Scout (it's all about fishing and hunting for him).

He mentioned it once at our secular homeschool co-op and one of the moms said that was terrible because of the Boy Scouts' anti-gay policies.

He mentioned it a few days later at our *other* co-op (this one Christian), and one of the mothers said that was terrible because the Boy Scouts promote a pro-gay agenda.


It'd make me laugh if it wasn't just so darned sad.

bagoh20 said...

Plenty of those straight boys are experimenting. Is there anything in the manual about that?

Æthelflæd said...

What if they are pre-polyamorists?

CEO-MMP said...

I always knew Lem was just a follower...

Baron Zemo said...

This pretty much spells the end of the Boy Scouts.

The Scouts have always attracted the Jerry Sandusky types but once the floodgates are opened it is only a matter of time until the entire organization is financially decimated.

This decision will lead to massive lawsuits because of the inevitable problems that will ensue and the Scouts will have to sell off most of the campgrounds and properties that they have owned for one hundred years.
The Scouts have already sold off most of Ten Mile River which I attended when I was a Scout and now the rest will be gone soon enough.

Calypso Facto said...

Sounds fine to me personally (as a former scout and leader), but if they go forward it will be the end of the BSA as a national organization, because once the BSA loses the backing of the Mormon Church, it's toast.

It will be another private organization ground to dust under the heel of political correctness.

Diamondhead said...

There are a large number of gay people who could bring something worthwhile to the boy scouts. That of course has nothing to do with the larger aim of the left, which is the destruction of anything underpinned by traditional notions of virtue or just plain tradition. Why aren't there girls in the boy scouts? Why can't gay scouts also be sexually active? Why won't they consider having guest speakers explain kink at meetings? Isn't the concept of camping out and self-sufficiency in the wild awfully hetero-normative, anyway, and lead to activities like hunting and klan rallies?

Baron Zemo said...

The Scouts will lose the backing of the conservative family oriented groups (such as the Mormons and the Catholic Church) and will go by the wayside as have some many traditonally oriented institutions. It has maybe ten years left and will fade away.

Baron Zemo said...

A new organization may step in to take it's place but it will never be as national in scope as the Boy Scouts of America.

Renee said...

At times Im at events with my husband and son at boy scouts. My husband and I don't even do anything remotely romantic (hold hands). If we did that the boy scout leader would tell us to immediately stop.

Scouts is about scouting not romantic relationships.

If you are there to scout, there are no problems.

This fits in line with Catholic teaching that being gay is not a sin.

If you got caught masterbating at camp you would be removed. Gay or straight.

Renee said...

@ terriw

I know it is terrible...

Original Mike said...

"Oh, and my prediction: girls in boy scouts before the end of the year."

I'll say this about the End Days: they're entertaining.

Robert Zaleski said...

That's how you know this move towards "inclusiveness" and "Political Correctness" is pure evil. It can only destroy. I haven't seen either create ANYTHING!!

Renee said...

They have that already... within the BSA organization.

Mostly for girls who actually want to scout, because girl scouts does not offer that.

PianoLessons said...

The Boy Scouts of America sure have a good PR firm turning out this press release on a day when no one really cares or even hears about it.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Baron Zemo: This pretty much spells the end of the Boy Scouts.

If the Girl Scouts can handle gays I think the Boy Scouts aught to be able to tough it out too.

Or are the Girl Scouts made of sterner stuff?

Renee said...

Jason, both scouting organizations are in decline.

Due to lower numbers of children born to begin with... scouts takes up a lot of time and competes with other activities.

Baron Zemo said...

Lesbians are generally less destructive than male homosexuals.

At least to other people. They tear each other up pretty good.

At least that is the way it is on the "L" word.

Birches said...

The Mormons are ok with this policy. It never would have made the light of day if they weren't.

The religious troops are the only things keeping the BSA alive.

Baron Zemo said...

There have always been gay scouts. Even gay scoutmasters. But their sexuality as not an issue because they didn't make an issue out of it.

So now they will make a big issue out of it and the family oriented traditionalist will now want Titus as a Scoutmaster.

Baron Zemo said...

Right?

Revenant said...

How does someone who is 6-15 know they are Homosexual?

Maybe you were a late bloomer, but by the time I was 15 I'd known for years that I was a raging heterosexual.

SteveR said...

How awkward. OK Johnny, before you get your Bobcat badge you need to declare your sexuality.

chickelit said...

Maybe you were a late bloomer, but by the time I was 15 I'd known for years that I was a raging heterosexual.

I knew as early as 6 or 7 when I first saw Julie Newmar as Catwoman on Batman.

TMink said...

Well cool. Next we will have Boy Scouts tenting with Girl Scouts.

I don't see anything wrong with that either. I mean, to not allow that would be discriminatory.

Trey

Revenant said...

I knew as early as 6 or 7 when I first saw Julie Newmar as Catwoman on Batman.

Good point. I feel even heterosexualier than normal now that you mention that.

Baron Zemo said...

We had a rule in our troop. You were not allowed to participate unless you had a kid in the troop. Or were an alumni who had belonged when you were a kid.

You would be surprised at the people who would "volunteer" to help out.

Baron Zemo said...

I respect the opinion of those who were in the Scouts or who had kids in the Scouts.

I would like to know if you think this is a good idea?

Æthelflæd said...

All the scouts I know are evangelical or Catholic homeschoolers.

" It can only destroy. I haven't seen either create ANYTHING!!" Said R Zaleski. Exactly correct.

Baron Zemo said...

The fact of the matter is that it is extremely unlikely that gay parents will want their adopted Chinese girl children to be Boy Scouts.

Can't you guys stick with Broadway Show Tune Camp and Chorus lines and leave the traditonalists something? Is that do much to ask?

kentuckyliz said...

Why not create a new and special organization, the Fab Scouts.

I got my amyl nitrate patch!

Revenant said...

It can only destroy. I haven't seen either create ANYTHING

Cedarford may disagree, but personally I think American society was significantly improved when we stopped barring Jews from our social institutions.

So that's at least one nice thing that political correctness has accomplished, albeit not recently.

Baron Zemo said...

Well that is true but the Jews generally don't try to convert you.

Just sayn'

Renee said...

Liz. They have that.

Baron Zemo said...

I remember when I was a kid the troops represented the neighborhoods you were in. There was a Jewish troop where everyone was basicly Jewish. Not a goy in sight. They were from Borough Park and had a huge group in the dining hall.

There were other Troops that were predominately Catholic. In fact subsets of Catholics. You had your Italians and Irish troops. Your Polish troop. Your Greek Troop.

And a troop from Brooklyn Heights that was very gay friendly. So to speak.

It worked out just fine.

Baron Zemo said...

There were also a couple of black Troops from Bed Stuy who were sponsored by the Baptist churches.

Those were some tough dudes.

TWM said...

Glad my Eagle Scout son ages out in October. Others have said this and it's true - this will be the end of Boy Scouts. While some civic groups will welcome them back, most churches - which are the backbone of support for Scouting - won't support them any longer. Certainly when the pressure builds to allow gay leaders.

Sad ...

Baron Zemo said...

Civic groups do not support the Boy Scouts. There are too many demands on their resources.

They concerntrate on midnight basketball and handing out condoms.

You know important stuff like that there.

bagoh20 said...

"How does someone who is 6-15 know they are Homosexual?"

Little tents magically appear in your sleeping bag.


Unknown said...

Gay scoutmaster, eh? Would you mind if your son was sleeping in a tent in the woods with a Catholic priest?

traditionalguy said...

The new merit badges should be fun, but will they use Phallic symbols and the symbols for fetishes that every boy should be taught to master. They will likely rename the tenderfoot rank to sound less clinical.

The scout's song will become, "There is a Troop in New Orleans they call the rising sun and it's been the ruin of many a poor boy and God I know I'm a one."

Gene said...

It makes no sense to allow gay scoutmasters to do to the Boy Scouts what gay priests did to the Catholic Church.

rcocean said...

This is nothing to celebrate. Why should boys who practice sodomy be Boy scouts?

Because that's what being Gay is. You're so proud you suck another boys dick you tell everyone about it, and then you join the BSA and tell everyone about it.

So what happens when a Gay Boy Scout puts the moves on straight Boy scout and Straight Boy scout beats the shit out him? Lawsuit! Or, when someone makes fun of the gay Boy Scout? Lawsuit.

rcocean said...

Left-wing Lawyers (but I repeat myself) want to destroy the BSA. I hope BSA knows what its doing. This seems like its helping their own destruction.

rcocean said...

Above all keep the "Gays" out of the BSA. They don't like? Too bad. Let them go create the "Rainbow Scouts" where Atheist Gays can go camping, where Red Army uniforms, and practice sodomy.

Maybe they could get Andrew Sullivan and Richard Dawkins to head it up.

rcocean said...

By "Gays" I mean "Adult" over 18 "gays"

TWM said...

Again, if the BSA allows this it is signing its own death warrant. A shell of it might remain much like the Girl Scouts today, but that's all.

rcocean said...

Sorry, long day at work. Too tired to edit.

Methadras said...

Professor Gunslinging Psychotherapist said...

I note that "sexual orientation or preference" refers to a person's status or feelings, not behavior.


Boy Prof, you are just on a role today. Now you are projecting your interpretations of what 'sexual orientation' is? So if you identify with a particular sexual orientation that doesn't account for behavior, but rather just status and feelings? So in effect, if it's just status, then anyone can identify to any sexual orientation at will since you've just deemed it being transient thus rendering it a meaningless identification. If it's just feelings of 'sexual orientation' then you can feel any way you want to feel about whatever your sexual orientation 'status' is and thus making that doubly transient and making 'sexual orientation' even that much more suspect and meaningless.

But in your opinion it isn't about behavior at all. Excuse me while I laugh at your display of dumbness today. This is really sad to see you go through this.

Revenant said...

It makes no sense to allow gay scoutmasters to do to the Boy Scouts what gay priests did to the Catholic Church.

You mean "lie about their orientation so they can get access to kids"?

Yeah, a ban will definitely put a stop to that. It worked so well for the Church this last 1600 years. :)

James Pawlak said...

The new scout greeting must be" Got AIDS Yet?".

Revenant said...

But in your opinion it isn't about behavior at all.

I have to laugh at the people who think sexual orientation is about behavior.

Apparently Methadras didn't realize he was heterosexual until his penis somehow found its way into a vagina. Why a non-heterosexual man would be waving his dick around near a vagina is anybody's guess.

TWM said...

It will be an interesting dynamic. There are dozens to hundreds of troops in any given area and what will happen is when one troop has a gay scout or gay leader (which will surely come) parents who object will simply move their kids to another troop. Thus troops with a gay leader/member will die while others will thrive. This will be the case until Scouts die as a whole as a result of interference by the national group.

Revenant said...

Thus troops with a gay leader/member will die while others will thrive.

The majority of people under 50 -- i.e., the parents' age group -- think homophobes are jerks.

What makes you think they'll be thrilled you're sending your kids to join their troop? Scouting requires that people be (among other things) loyal, friendly, courteous, and kind. You think they'll welcome people who aren't those things?

Palladian said...

A lot of people posting comments here would have found common cause with Dzhokhar & Tamerlan.

Palladian said...

... if only they'd killed more faggots, of course!

Renee said...

TWM,

Pretty much that. But again if you are actually scouting, you are too busy to notice.

Jason (the commenter) said...

chickelit: I knew as early as 6 or 7 when I first saw Julie Newmar as Catwoman on Batman.

Note to children: this doesn't count towards straightness if you want to BE Julie Newmar.

Jason (the commenter) said...

"I'm a Woman"

ken in sc said...

I quit the Scouts,when I was 13, because of homosexual goings-on at scout camp one year. There is a form of homosexual behavior that does not get much attention, except when talking about prison rape. Older teenage boys sometimes bully younger boys into blow jobs and corn holing. The older boys are not so much homosexual as hypersexual. Our Scout master would leave us alone at camp for much of the day because he didn't want to take time off from work. I know that the Scouts, as an organization, has gone to a lot of trouble trying to prevent this sort of thing.

I see this change as making things worse.

ken in sc said...

BTW, in much of America, corn holing is not throwing a bean bag through a hole in a piece of plywood, it is anal sex.

Renee said...

ken in sc,

yeah... that's what they are trying to prevent.

Baron Zemo said...

Soon the Boy Scouts can look forward to all the respect and admiration that accrues to Penn State Football.