Just in case!
Frankly, I think all the states should have made plans like this a long time ago. Given the possibility of nuclear war, a large asteroid, or — Wyoming, I'm looking at you — the eruption of the Yellowstone caldera, the states ought to be ready to operate independently. I recommend, as part of the plan, ultimate reunion of the states — those that survive with intact state government — under the U.S. Constitution.
February 26, 2012
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"Given the possibility of nuclear war, a large asteroid,...
You forgot to mention congressional mismanagement or one-party takeover.
Oh yeah. And that Constitution thingy. You know, the one that provocateurs like Herr Pelosi wipe their private parts with. It would be nice to have it front and center once again, due the respect it rightly should have.
University of Wyoming political science professor Jim King said the potential for a complete unraveling of the U.S. government and economy is “astronomically remote” in the foreseeable future.
What planet does this guy live on?
Does he have a TV where he can tune in to the Greek riots?
I think the states should actively create a plan the outcome of which is the ultimate reunion of the states like right now.
Political.
Collapse.
Thank you, Marx!
Another solid victory.
Just 5 years ago this would have seemed completely crazy.
Now, it's prudent.
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
Jay
"University of Wyoming political science professor Jim King"
Clearly this guy lives inside a bubble, hence the Oz-like appeal that 'all is well, do not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain'.
If you see 'professor' in front of someone's name, chances are the bubble is rather thick.
Where will the state of Wyoming keep their aircraft carrier?
Craig, after Yellowstone blows up, there will be a large lake in Wyoming. They'll put the warships in that. They won't have to worry about ecological damage to the fish for quite a while.
There's a drydock in Bremerton they could probably rent while waiting for Old Faithful to blow.
After the Yellowstone caldera eruption won't all of these plans be buried under tons of volcanic ash and rock?
Do they have a space pod on standby?
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
The continental divide runs through Wyoming, so potentially anywhere west of that could be a shoreline.
And probably will, since the failure of the U.S. government will probably entail the failure of Obama to keep the oceans from rising.
Cool.
Obama as national disaster ... literally.
Private currencies work better than state currencies.
The state will instantly inflate its own currency.
Private currencies have to compete for users.
George Selgin podcast.
Given the possibility of nuclear war, a large asteroid, or — Wyoming, I'm looking at you — the eruption of the Yellowstone caldera...
Don't forget zombies...
There has been a massive upsurge in weapons purchases since 2008.
I don't think it's for varmints and such.
What not use that opportunity to remain free of what has become, more and more, a failure?
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
Yellowstone Lake? It's definitely deep enough. I really wanted to fish it last year when we visited Yellowstone, but the wife was really off her game due to her fear of heights, mountains, and canyons. We drove by the lake looking for the canyon waterfalls, and we kept climbing and climbing, [I obviously took a wrong turn] she is getting more and more agitated, then a huge canyon appears on her right, she is now white knuckle freaking out, the kids are crying, and I'm telling them "Hang on just a little bit longer. We'll get through this! I promise!" And we did. We came down a hill and saw a sign that said "Thanks for visiting Yellowstone". Oh no! We have to go back through the Canyon of Death! She said "I'm not going back up there!" I said "we have to, all our shit is back at the hotel" She said "Well they can just send us our stuff". I said "that's ridiculous. Put a damn pillow over your face we have to go back through". Then a moose walks right by us as we're parked talking about it, and kind of broke the ice. And she did put a pillow over her face and we made it back.
Continuity Plans afre a good thing, but they lost me at:
and an aircraft carrier.
The Plan they plan won't work because not only the precise disaster wont happen, but things won't fail in the manner they planned, but thinking about the issues gives one small piece parts of the original Plan that are applicable when XXX.
That's the long version of Clauswitz:
No Plan survives contact with the enemy
Or today's Army version:
The enemy has a vote
GM,
I was there a couple of years ago and don't remember any real road close to the canyon falls, just some 1.5 lane asphalt things heading to overview parking lots?
BTW Garage, how's that puppy doing? I haven't seen any pix lately, is he getting huge?
About 5 years ago, the KGB's foreign analysis section (which is quite perceptive about things American) opined the the US could split up into as many as 6 separate nations. This would fit right in.
Craig said...
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
You mean when The Big One hits California?
Probably at the salt water port of Green River.
Drill Sgt
There is an upper and lower waterfalls, and a canyon. [Apparently, we never made it.] I remember going past the Fishing Bridge, we stopped and parked there. I was looking for some cutthroats, and the little one had a complete meltdown. I think I took a right instead of going straight to the falls, which ending up taking us out the east entrance of the park. Funny, I remember all the meltdowns and where they took place on that trip. She had an absolute doozy at entrance walkway at Mt Rushmore. She was trying to push her baby stroller and kept hitting the cracks in the concrete slabs, stopping her, and she just lost it.
gerry said...
What not use that opportunity to remain free of what has become, more and more, a failure?
Ah, but it isn't the Constitution that's failed.
It's Socialism/Communism/Leftism.
Yellowstone erupts ain't gonna be no mo' Wyoming.
GM,
just as well you didn't find those overlooks. They are right up on the edge, thundering water and spray, looking down 100 feet or so, she would not have liked the view.
ricpic said...
Yellowstone erupts ain't gonna be no mo' Wyoming.
sure there will, it will just be at elevations 3 ft higher (the ash layer)
edutcher said...
About 5 years ago, the KGB's foreign analysis section (which is quite perceptive about things American) opined the the US could split up into as many as 6 separate nations. This would fit right in.
It was actually a Russian professor (former KGB) that made the prediction.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
Also, he said the US would split apart in 2010 so take it for what it's worth.
@The Drill Sgt/
3 ft? IIRC I thought it's predicted to be 15-20' over a seven-State area?
Craig said...
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
==============
A rather stupid taunt.
Because certain land-locked nations are quite defensible or at least hammer home to Soviets and Neocons that they are not worth the cost of invasion and control (see carrierless Switzerland and Afghanistan)
You have plenty of states that might think of breakaway if America fiscally collapses and the people with the energy resources, food production and nukes do not with to see their wealth siphoned off further by taxes and goods to further the subsidies to parasitic lawyers and welfare mommas on the East Coast and California.
It wouldn't be "just Wyoming".
Add up the Red Areas, not just Wyoming, and the 2nd Civil War and a better Constitution could be done and over in a year.
"After the Yellowstone caldera eruption won't all of these plans be buried under tons of volcanic ash and rock?"
That's why I'm saying all the states should have a plan. You don't know where the asteroid will hit or the nuclear bomb or whatever. I'd like the see the country rebuilt, relying on the centers of law and order that exist at the state govt level.
Jess
The pup just turned 5 months and he is getting big. Here are a few pics from a week ago. He is doing real good, but he did get Cherry Eye, which sucks. He'll need minor surgery, at a not minor cost.
I'm happy to say that if the caldera erupts I won't have any more troubles, and neither will Idaho or Montana. On the other hand, as certain as the eruption is, a complete breakdown in government is equally possible, and that I'd have to deal with.
I recommend, as part of the plan, ultimate reunion of the states — those that survive with intact state government — under the U.S. Constitution.
Shorn of 200 years of judicial activism, please.
Cedarford said...
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
==============
A rather stupid taunt.
Because certain land-locked nations are quite defensible or at least hammer home to Soviets and Neocons that they are not worth the cost of invasion and control (see carrierless Switzerland and Afghanistan)
Cedar doesn't get it (surprise).
And it's good to remember that GodZero has done everything he could to turn A-stan into the mess it's become.
A real American President probably would not have.
GM:
Moose are soothing that way.
The aircraft carrier would of course be parked at Diego Garcia.
"You forgot to mention congressional mismanagement or one-party takeover."
Or my personal favorites as per Zappa: paperwork or nostalgia.
Ross - "the KGB's foreign analysis section (which is quite perceptive about things American) opined the the US could split up into as many as 6 separate nations. This would fit right in.
It was actually a Russian professor (former KGB) that made the prediction."
================
25 years ago, the Soviet breakup was unthinkable. Then it soon happened.
This influences Russian thinking today, in scenarios affecting other nations with big confederations where citizens not joined by ethnicity and shared values can see situations where they would be better off broken up.
Britain is looking at the end of the UK, as the Scots move to full autonomy and control of their markets and resources with London Elites shoved out of the picture.
In the US, look at the Red areas vs Blue Democrat areas. Its basically California, the Northeast coast from DC up to southern Maine, and a satellite network of parasitic Blue Cities dependent on Fed money and State money to reward their welfare state voters.
Tread carefully professor. Its a sign of a terrorist to have more than 7 days of food on hand, or to prepare for the breakdown of the United States. At least according to Big Sis Napolitano.
Once you start down the prepper path you get accounted a nut job by most Americans.(fewer everyday though).
Here's an easy tip for everyone here today. Obama has signed a bill to allow the Treasury to remake nicklels. Currently nickels cost almost a nickel to mint. So they are going to start test striking aluminum and steel nickels with the idea of new issues as soon as next year.
"So what" you say? The price of the metal in old nickels will still increase, through inflation if nothing else. And like silver dollars, the "bad" new nickels will drive out the "good" old nickels. With little work, you could have a stash of nickels that have doubled in worth. Just save your pocket change. We are actually putting back $20 a week, not counting change. And if I'm wrong, you still have a pile of nickels to spend.(a no lose proposition)
garage mahal said...
Where is Wyoming planning on docking their aircraft carrier?
Yellowstone Lake? It's definitely deep enough. I really wanted to fish it last year when we visited Yellowstone, but the wife was really off her game due to her fear of heights, mountains, and canyons. We drove by the lake looking for the canyon waterfalls, and we kept climbing and climbing, [I obviously took a wrong turn] she is getting more and more agitated, then a huge canyon appears on her right, she is now white knuckle freaking out, the kids are crying, and I'm telling them "Hang on just a little bit longer. We'll get through this! I promise!" And we did. We came down a hill and saw a sign that said "Thanks for visiting Yellowstone". Oh no! We have to go back through the Canyon of Death! She said "I'm not going back up there!" I said "we have to, all our shit is back at the hotel" She said "Well they can just send us our stuff". I said "that's ridiculous. Put a damn pillow over your face we have to go back through". Then a moose walks right by us as we're parked talking about it, and kind of broke the ice. And she did put a pillow over her face and we made it back.
2/26/12 8:55 AM
Don't go to Glacier NP. Yellowstone is tame compared to Glacier.
The nice thing about the parks is you don't need a fishing licence.
Sorry to hear about the cherry eye, Garage. IDK who your vet is, obviously, but there are some veterinary ophthalmologists in Madison who would do an excellent job. NOT that a GP vet can't do an excellent job too, but be sure to ask the vet how many cherry eye surgeries s/he's done and what the success rate is.
Might be worth paying a bit extra to have a specialist do it. I learned that the hard way when one of my dogs needed a tumor removed; I didn't want to operate on my own dog so had an area vet do it, and she didn't get it all. So I had a vet school surgeon clean things up; should have had him do it in the first place.
The "old school" way was just to cut the cherry eye off, and some vets still do that. That's a bad idea because it leads to chronic dry eye.
You probably already know this...but just in case.
Garage's story of me taking the wife to Look Out Mountain. I had forgotten she was claustrophobic, and there was a narrow passage called Fat Mans Squeeze, a passage you have to turn sideways to get through(it's about 16 inches wide) After first refusing to go through she was denied any other exit, so she had to go...digging her fingernails into my forearm the entire way. We got through with just a little blood lose and a royal ass chewing(from her to me).
Glad to see we can connect on this level. And dogs too. Good looking pup.
The wife brought one home from the pound once. Little fart fit in the palm of her hand. She told me it was to be her new house dog. It was a chow/lab mix but she couldn't tell. I told her no more dogs unless I approve.(it now weighs 8o sumthin' pounds)
Garage,
I had to look that up on Wikipedia. I'm glad they have a high success rate with the surgery, that augurs well for his recovery.
Still a great-looking pup!
@Petunia
Thanks for the advice. And well said. I talked to the vet at Spring Harbor, he's done quite a few Cherry Eye ops so I will probably go with him. He said $700 out the door. I suppose I could "look around", but eyes aren't something to mess around with to me. It doesn't bother him at all, just a cosmetic thing. I seriously think his head just exploded in growth the past few weeks and that had something to do with it? Who knows. I guess it's real common in cockers and bulldogs. I've even seen people "pop" the gland back in youtube, by rubbing it back in. I'm too chicken to try. You have some veterinarian experience?
I'm a vet myself. :)
Spring Harbor's got a pretty good reputation and $700 is not a bad price, IMHO.
I definitely wouldn't try popping it back in myself! It would probably just pop out again, and of course the eyeball is RIGHT THERE and you don't want to risk damaging that. Plus the gland of the third eyelid (which is what the cherry eye is) could get damaged if you try to replace it yourself.
Your vet probably told you to keep an eye on it (ha!) and if it starts looking discolored, dry, or crusty, to contact him.
Hope the surgery goes well!
I take Bear right up the street on the east side. What side of town are you at?
My husband's employer does simulations for stuff like that. Disease propagation, emergency response, facility vulnerability assessments....
"Oh no! We have to go back through the Canyon of Death! She said "I'm not going back up there!""
Ha!
When we drove up past Oray *I* drove. I was white knuckled the whole time but at least I was sane at the end of it. Sitting in the passenger seat gives you nothing but a view of air and sure knowledge that you are going to DIE.
Give her a hug and next time, have her move to the back seat on the driver's side. It might help.
After the Yellowstone caldera eruption...
I'll be selling land in S. Florida at astronomical prices!
Wow, that's awesome to survive the valley of death thing twice.
Absolutely. Administrative districts (e.g. nations, states) exist for a reason. They are not partitioned solely to localize authoritarian interests for accountability.
As for the viability of America as a unified nation, there is reason to question its future. The citizens are nearly equally divided between individuals who recognize individual dignity as a priority principle and others who would rather defer to alphas (or mortal gods) and the central authority which they favor.
The current administration's effort to actively subvert a republican form of government is just one of many possible causes for persistent strife.
The motivating factor here is Obama and what he has done with our debt load both now and especially in the future. Just read the quotes from the people supporting the bill. It is all fine and good to talk about asteroids and calderas but the most likely scenario is bankruptcy when there is no longer enough money to keep buying votes and other countries start seeing that our paper is just paper. There is at least a chance that an asteroid WON'T hit us or that Yellowstone WON'T erupt. That we will be bankrupt is a certainty if people keep voting for completely imbecilic and economically illiterate drones like Obama and the lot.
The ironic thing is that Greece was the first country to learn that you can't let people vote themselves other people's money. That was the demise of man's first experiment with democracy. You can see how well that lesson took given what is happening in Greece today. Countries where there is a broad agreement that economic and personal liberty are the foundations of a just and civilized society have been few and far between because of the basest and most venal sorts of impulses that Obama displays all so well. When you reward that sort of behavior then you get more of it and all of the Constitutional protections that our Founding Fathers created to prevent this sort of thing have been stripped.
All of these plans are out the window anyway if something like the examples Althouse mentions occur. The range of natural catastrophes that are bad enough for the states to break up, but where order is still maintained enough to implement these plans, is an exceedingly narrow range of probabilities.
Insurrection and secession is much more likely and frankly I am not sure the latter would not already be happening if put to a vote.
C4,
"25 years ago, the Soviet breakup was unthinkable."
Good thing Reagan (along with, among others, Possony, Pournelle, and Kane) didn't get the message.
This is not totally without precedent. Many states and local jurisdictions developed "civil/civilian defense" plans to address invasions, disasters, and other emergencies. Such efforts peaked in WWII, but there are still outlines of the old processes in many places. I live in a coastal New England city, and for the last few years, my city and others nearby have been calling for local volunteers to become trained in a number of emergency response procedures in order to augment professional staff in government, hospitals, flood control, etc. It goes in fits and starts, and it seems woefully unfunded, but they have explicitly positioned the efforts as being similar to the old Civilian Defense efforts. Much of the recent attention has been driven by hurricane and flood threats, but I think the ideas started percolating locally after 9/11.
Here's a scenario: One of the states, or several of them, call for a convention to create an economically viable trade group of states called the new USA. This group orders its individual state legislators to create a balanced budget within the (internal) union. In accordance with the US Federal Constitution the New USA shall honor the contracts of all of the states, but pay no taxes into the Federal Government beyond an indexed total percentage voted upon by the citizens within the New USA as sufficient for the maintenance of the core functions, defined by the states, of the national government. The citizens of the states of the New USA shall pay a uniform tax rate on all income of any type...
If you would have told me just 12 years ago that I would support something like the above even if it meant the reformation of the national government I would have thought you were crazy. I think today that government on the national level has completely lost touch with the citizens who pay the taxes and no longer deserve their support. Only experienced administrators with minimal ideological baggage can stop this train wreck. Otherwise we will just have to try it again. The heartaches, disagreements, and dangers of a restart are far better to contemplate than a total breakdown of first civility and then our society.
Anybody got a better idea? Please.
Amateur Radio folks.
There are various frequencies available from 1.8 MHz to everything above 275 GHz in order to maintain communications.
The power sources are as varied as the battery of your car to solar or a quickly set up bicycle. ;)
I am waiting to read about the part of the Wyoming plan which avoids their effort being taken over by the Federal Plan for Continuity of Government.
If you think I am being paranoid, just watch the Wyoming effort; As soon as they begin to make any tangible progress the Feds will want coordination, supervision...and a veto power, just as NASA did when the private space flight companies started developing their designs.
Kirk Parker said...
C4,
"25 years ago, the Soviet breakup was unthinkable."
Good thing Reagan (along with, among others, Possony, Pournelle, and Kane) didn't get the message.
===============
You read wrong.
25 years ago, the idea that the Soviet Union was to shortly break up was unthinkable to the Soviets.
And 25 years ago, the idea that the Scots would end "the United Kingdom" was similarly unthinkable.
With the US, outsiders see no common ethnicity or culture left, factions with diametrically opposed interests by region and socioeconomic grouping, paralyzed institutions, and an outdated Constitution
In the 90's CBS series Jerico Cheyenne was the capital of the Allied States of America. These guys are obviously in on a plot to nuke 23 American cities!
I love the Constitution as much as anyone, but the 'exploits' necessary to defeat it are already known. (Such as, federal judges appointed at the federal level, just appoint corrupt ones and the Constitution is anything you want them to say it is.) America 2.0 would be better served by a new Constitution designed to defeat those exploits, rather than just bringing back the original document, and watching it fall again in a decade or two.
Brett
I suspect the founders knew about those "exploits" and opted in favor of personal freedom. One of the founders, it might have been Franklin, said, in effect, the constitution was inadequate to regulate the kind of people who would exploit it. It didn't take long for those people to show up, but it's taken almost 250 years to nearly destroy it. That's evidence that it's stronger than you might think.
Wyoming is effectively this country's most abandoned state. They mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Property values there are near an all time low. You can buy hundreds of acres for very little and your nearest neighbor is a few miles away.
Methadras
It's a good thing to live in an "abandoned" state. One that has a balanced budget. We're pretty happy we mean nothing to big government types, but it won't be long before the they notice we have a little money and try to get their hands on it.
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