Last year, a federal program paid out $1.6 billion to cover free cell phones and the monthly bills of 12.5 million wireless accounts....
The program came to be after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 was passed, and the FCC created the Universal Service Fund to help "to promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates," among other things. All telecommunications carriers must pay into the fund, and many do so by tacking on a fee to each of their customers' bills. It's probably added into your monthly wireless bill and your landline bill, if you still have one.
February 9, 2012
Do you enjoy paying other people's cell phone bills?
You are doing that, you know.
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135 comments:
Hey we've been paying for the Spanish America war for over 100 years after that war's end. The little item was tacked on the new fan-dangle invention call telephone. The tax wasn't removed until much much later.
This explains how the poor afford all those cell phones.
If I recall correctly, one of the regular garagers said (paraphrasing) "You can get a prepaid cell phone for $20."
On second thought http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_telephone_excise_tax, it really isn't fully repealed yet.
Is there legislation subsidizing low income American's cable bills?
$15 trillion in debt?
No problem! We'll get you a phone right away!
Imagine the vapors the left would get if conservative lawmakers pushed to take this away...
They're on to you now, AA. Just TRY and make a call today.
Are we now also in need of a "Single payer" Nationalized Cell phone Service?
You know that is a perfect example of how the poor people receive free medical care today. The costs are shifted to the service payers as one fee at a time is added to their bills.
That would be Jesus' plan for the poor too, assures Pontefex Maximus Obama.
Actually Jesus has another Way of doing things for the poor.
Do you enjoy paying other people's cell phone bills?
NO.
NO.
NO.
Pfft. I'm already paying somebody else's mortgage and health costs, too. Frankly, I'd be surprised if there was something people got that I WASN'T paying for.
We get a lot of that money back via taxes on booze and cigarettes, which is where their money goes instead.
I can't be bothered to resent poor people acquiring cheap cell phones on my dime when CEOs of the big banks and Wall Street firms are giving themselves multi-million dollar bonuses with my tax money, even in the midst of an economy they have wrecked.
If we stop all the high-placed and well-connected big-money thieves and fill up our nation's prison cells with them, then we might consider whether those at the bottom feeding off leavings warrant attention.
No. But I don't like paying for long expensive bloody and pointless foreign wars either. And unlke the other waste, fraud, and abuse it may actually help matters. So all you right-wing cheapskates should just embrace the suck and get on with your life.
A counterargument is the justification of subsidized rural electrification in the 1930s and also subsidized-cost mail delivery to rural Americans to the present day.
Ironically, the areas with the poorest cell phone service today are rural areas.
Sorun said...
We get a lot of that money back via taxes on booze and cigarettes, which is where their money goes instead.
Fuel taxes too. My observation is that the wealthier one is, the more fuel efficient the car is.
@Robert Cook: Stop grumbling about Wall Street, you boob. The Democrats know exactly how much potential untaxed earnings are still tied up there via retirement funds. It was worth it them to prop up the markets.
If they would only stop attacking us....
Social Justice thievery is good thievery say Cookie Marxist and KenK Marxist.
I'm sure the government employees implementing this and other poor people give-away programs are competent and highly motivated. Not.
There was a time when "affordable" meant that something didn't cost very much.
But now, it more often means that something is costly, but someone other than the user is forced to pay for it.
IN any case, tout le monde is moving to smartphones. So, I suppose we'll have to subsidize those as well (along with a sizeable data plan to make them worthwhile).
If that's the peace sign flashed, that's really funny, it it's victory, quit your bitching, The One is creating the world you want.
Robert Cook said...
I can't be bothered to resent poor people acquiring cheap cell phones on my dime when CEOs of the big banks and Wall Street firms are giving themselves multi-million dollar bonuses with my tax money,
You are confusing "Wall Street" with GM and Chrysler.
That's been going on for years. Redistribution!
And check the rest of your utilities--they have been extracting surcharges for years from us to pay for "poor" people to get cheaper rates.
Of course, they are not required to show us the accounting on that, so we don't actually know how it's used.
KenK said...
No. But I don't like paying for long expensive bloody and pointless foreign wars either.
Right. Because as long as you can find something the federal government does you don't like, spending on cell phones is all ok.
@ripic
Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport, the Post Office, taken the mortgage interest deduction or any of other the government programs that amount to tax subsidized benefits?
How is this different than the 1000's of other ways the gov't steals from some and give to others?
Old news.
This is what the gov't mostly does now.
Speaking as somebody who works for a cell phone company --- you'll be AMAZED at how much crap you have to pay for due to government mandates.
Look at your surcharges and taxes categories. They are not insignificant sums of money.
And unlke the other waste, fraud, and abuse it may actually help matters.
Do you deal with this program?
No?
See, I do.
It doesn't help things. At all.
A cell phone is not a necessity, much as some with to assume otherwise. My company is heavily invested in getting folks to believe the nonsense that you have to have one.
Do you really want to compare tax bills?
Of course, they are not required to show us the accounting on that, so we don't actually know how it's used.
We don't know how it's used. We have to shovel a certain percentage of the bill to various government entities each month. Why New Yorkers tolerate 4 layers of taxation on their bills is lost on me.
Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport, the Post Office, taken the mortgage interest deduction or any of other the government programs that amount to tax subsidized benefits?
...because opposition to idiotic policies is IDENTICAL to anarchy.
How about we get progressive Dems who love these programs to actually PAY their taxes. Seems to be a systemic problem.
I read recently that 48% of Americans receive some type of public assistance - this being one of those I assume.
It's a Barry's welfare nation and the rest of us just live in it
Err, I meant fund it . . .
Cookie @1:05 is hitting on all cylinders today.
So should we confiscate the i-phones from the Capitalist Pigs as they go into prison, or out to be shot, and redistribute them among the poor.
It almost make you want to be poor.
Oh I'm sure it's much nearer 100 percent who get "government benefits" when you add in all the middle class and rich who eat from the federal trough. Are you right-wingers so intensely angry that some old lady or single mom got a damn cell phone? 250 minutes? Please. Unless you have no life at all most of us could never get by on that. Just like the people who bitch about food stamps probably couldn't live one month on what they really provide. ($5 per person/day). Some of you pickers will never be happy until America life is like a Dickens novel.
I don't enjoy paying my cell phone bill.
The answer to the question you pose should be obvious.
If you live in Wisconsin and can afford to pay your electric bill, you also pay this:
WI Low-Income Assistance Fee
In 2006, the Wisconsin Legislature passed Act 141, which requires electric utilities to collect a fee from their customers to help fund low-income energy assistance programs. These funds are collected through the WI Low-Income Assistance Fee — previously known as the Non-Taxable Customer Charge — and then transferred to the Wisconsin Department of Administration to assist low-income customers.
We give poor families hundreds of dollars a month in food stamps. When they don't spend the money on food, we give their kids free breakfasts, lunchs and in some areas dinners at school. When my oldest stepson was a single dad taking care of two very little children (then aged 1 and 3), he received over $400 a month between food stamps and WIC. That could only be used for food. And yet, that's apparently not enough.
We provide the poor with housing assistance, energy assistance, medical care and a host of other benefits known as "entitlements." Cell phones are just another on a long, long list. What's next, free cars (with insurance, gas and maintenance assistance, of course)? Gun stamps? Nah, that one likely won't happen anytime soon.
CL:
Yes - and recently, the feds coerced Comcast/ NBC to add more free goodies to low income cable viewers as part of the fed's approval of the Comcast merger with a NBC subsidiary.
CL - and it also included discounted computers- I think for $125.
KenK memorialized: ...just embrace the suck and get on with your life.
How motivational.
Are you right-wingers so intensely angry that some old lady or single mom got a damn cell phone? 250 minutes? Please. Unless you have no life at all most of us could never get by on that.
Yes, because as we all know, once the federal government stops providing free cellphones to "old ladies" and "single moms" America as we know it ceases to exists.
Or the cell phone companies have won.
Or something.
Taxpaying citizen: "Why should the poor have cell phones subsidized by me?"
Garage Mahal: "Why do you hate the poor?"
@Larry
You are misinformed. Food stamp/EBT/SNAP benefits can only be used for APPROVED FOOD ITEMS. If you know otherwise please notify the FBI. Those people are breaking the law.
We should subsidize people to live in McMansions, drop $100k a piece blockbuster bombs on foreign countries, bail out banksters but not to subsidize with tax money so they don't have to sleep in the street because you think their well being is a waste of money? That appears to be what some of you are saying.
If you do not have indoor plumbing, you are poor.
If you cannot have a 600-calorie breakfast, a 600-calorie lunch, and a 1200-calorie supper each day, you are poor.
If you cannot afford a dorm-refrigerator and a hotplate, you are poor.
Otherwise, you are not so poor and you do not need to force me to give you money.
Garage Mahal: "Why do you hate the poor?"
TWM said, "I read recently that 48% of Americans receive some type of public assistance - this being one of those I assume."
I thought it was that 48% receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes.
In other words, 48% are net consumers of tax money, rather than being net tax payers (like the other 52%).
@KenK also wrote: Some of you pickers will never be happy until America life is like a Dickens novel.
America is somewhere between a Dickensian extreme and Euro-style welfare state.
Mind the gap: There's room between those extremes, but current trends are worrisome. I'm thinking stability and even keel. In your case, I suspect you're thinking lie back and think of England.
So they have to buy the store brand instead of gourmet? There aren't enough inspectors to root out the food fraud. You're upset their choice is somewhat limited? Join the club, I can't buy my 100w incandescents anymore.
wv: decon? LOLOLOL
As Dame Maggie noted, increasing the dependent class means decreasing the moneyed class.
Which, I believe, Greece has just reached.
chickenlittle said...
This explains how the poor afford all those cell phones.
What's the matter with you?
Don't you know a cell phone is a basic human right, like being able to marry your Uncle Harry?
Here's some waste, fraud and abuse for the red meat haters to chew on. From Fox News too.
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2012/02/08/just-how-much-time-does-republican-senator-richard-lugar-spend-indiana
Are you right-wingers so intensely angry that some old lady or single mom got a damn cell phone? 250 minutes
There goes that bitter & angry trope again. lOLOLOLOL
Since the US is broke, que sera sera.
wv: fatatie? fatalistic tie
Ya know, it's times like these I really wish I saved that link to that experiment on living on $7 per day PP - a site set up a contest asking could you do that?
I got a lot of good ideas, because some of the people who posted there who had money actually did feed their family on it. With planning it can be done. Who knew about all the things you could do w/a $6 rotisserie chicken?
Feed My Starving Children in conjunction with ADM that evil corporation came up with enhanced vitamin-enriched rice and the packet of food contains 2000 calories a day.
They're based out of MN.
I still can't figure out why they ship food to The Netherlands.
Do you enjoy paying other people's cell phone bills? You are doing that, you know.
No, you are “doing that.” I am not because I don’t have a cell phone and do not intend to get one. I’ll stick to my reliable, safe, out of date land line.
"KenK said...
@ripic
Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport, the Post Office, taken the mortgage interest deduction or any of other the government programs that amount to tax subsidized benefits?"
This is so dumb it's painful. Those in the category of the topic "paying for other's cellphones" are also paying for these services through taxation. Second, those "having their cellphones paid for by others" use these services listed also, but don't pay (or pay very little).
Please try again.
We get a lot of that money back via taxes on booze and cigarettes, which is where their money goes instead.
Don't forget the lottery.
The free phones are along the same lines as rural electrification and rural free delivery. Suck up the suck, suckas! ~wink~
Who slipped KenK the high test :)
Hey, Shiloh. Want to tell us how the poor are so poor? Fuck you and your bullshit ideology that you walk around believing in.
"I can't be bothered to resent poor people acquiring cheap cell phones on my dime when CEOs of the big banks and Wall Street firms are giving themselves multi-million dollar bonuses with my tax money, even in the midst of an economy they have wrecked."
I can't be SEEN resenting the poor people acquiring cheap cell phones on my dime despite CEOs of the big banks and Wall Street firms (that are the democrat party's LARGEST CONTRIBUTORS) are being given multi-million dollar bonuses with government-issued bailout (my tax) money, even in the midst of an economy they (our government including BOTH political parties) have wrecked.
///FIXED
ken k said
"So all you right-wing cheapskates should just embrace the suck and get on with your life."
Ken, bite me. And take those two fingers of yours and stick them back up your bippy where they belong. You'd be the perfect poster child for the dem party, dumbass.
The question: Why do the poor need cell phones subsidized by tax dollars?
Another liberal coughs: "Are you right-wingers so intensely angry that some old lady or single mom got a damn cell phone?"
..and avoids answering the question. Illogic and fear of logic: the refrain of ding-dong libs.
deborah chimed: The free phones are along the same lines as rural electrification and rural free delivery.
Perhaps, had I been swinging from a chandelier, you'd have noticed who said that first.
KentK: "Are you right-wingers so intensely angry that some old lady or single mom got a damn cell phone? 250 minutes?"
Not angry but a bit baffled. The rationale behind this can extend to any thing you might think of. "Some old lady" can certainly have a cell phone, or a Ferrari for that matter, but it isn't just "some old lady" it is scores upon scores upon scores of people who would like a free cell phone. Why shouldn't that person have the use of a smart phone? What kind of cheap ass society doesn't provide a smart phone to "some old lady" with an unlimited data plan. Plus texts.
I skip your stuff, Skippy.
Alan, we pay these fees in CA too. On all utilities. Every state is getting in on the new secret taxes!
Grackle, you are paying these types of charges on your land line, believe me.
It's just another way the government and utilities can hoover in more of our money and not account for it.
Please please, lets all be nice to KenK, didn't your parents teach you to be nice to the mentally handicapped?
If that fat slob flashing a peace sign is indeed the poster, then i think we can safely assume he has down syndrome. Those coke bottle glasses and vacant expression are dead giveaways.
Ken, good for you typing on the internets like a big boy.
High Five!
"I also don't understand why I am paying Social Security taxes to pay for some doctor, or professor's, parents."
The answer lies with government, opting-out is not an option.
I don't like forced compliance either, but blaming folks that are forced to participate isn't productive.
"Hey, Shiloh. Want to tell us how the poor are so poor? Fuck you and your bullshit ideology that you walk around believing in."
Althouse please give Methadras a hug!
@Larry
You are misinformed. Food stamp/EBT/SNAP benefits can only be used for APPROVED FOOD ITEMS. If you know otherwise please notify the FBI. Those people are breaking the law.
Ken, I know what the law says. Like I said, I saw what my stepson received in food stamp and WIC benefits. He complied with the law. Now, if everyone did, why is there such a push for expanding school breakfast and lunch programs? Aren't we paying for those kids to eat twice? Or are the parents spending the money on other things? I've seen firsthand where more than a few food stamp receipants use their money to buy junk food at one extreme and very expensive food at the other. If the kids are hungry, it isn't society's fault, it's the fault of the parents.
There are shell "grocery stores" where you can go in and make nominal purchases and get cash back. There are a variety of ways to get cash for food stamp and other welfare benefits. When I was in college, I worked in a convenience store. At the time, they didn't have debit cards like today. Instead, they received a booklet of $1 and $5 food coupons. When the change was less than a dollar, we gave them coins. I remember one woman coming in and buying a bunch of penny candies so she got cash for her entire monthly allotment. Somehow, I doubt she used the cash to buy food elsewhere.
Mary, just who are you talking about? You seem to ask some good questions but some of your presumptions sound alarmingly like those that spring from groupthink.
The words deserve, entitled, etc. make me and many others very nervous.
Telecommunifascism: It's Apocalypse in America!
Let us assume that having a cell phone really is a "necessity", and not a luxury. Poor people are now getting subsidized with cell phones. So, if some poor person gets a job, they "lose" poor people benefits. One more disincentive for getting a job. Give the poor enough benefits and they would have to go from being poor to making a really nice salary to replace all the benefits. The poor will always be with us. But why do we need to encourage being poor?
I recall reading articles in the Milwaukee paper about people with benefit cards offering to buy other people's groceries. Some like "I'll buy you $100 of groceries with my EBT and you pay me $50." Since the card holder is doing the buying, a photo id won't stop this. The cash exchange is in the parking lot later. Very corrupting, corrupting the EBT holder, and the citizen in the parking lot.
Wisconsin under Governor Doyle, after the 2008 election, dramatically increased the number of people receiving assistance from the State.
garage mahal miscoined:
Telecommunifascism: It's Apocalypse in America!
Occam's Razor suggests you should have simply written "Telecommunism"--unless of course that simpler coinage offended your belief system somehow.
"to promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates,"
Silly me. I thought it was the free market's job to determine what was just, reasonable and affordable rates and what quality service was. Who is the Solon given the authority to decide what is "just" with regard to cell phone rates? How did they attain this rarefied authority?
Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport,
All of which I pay income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, tolls, school taxes, fuel taxes, road taxes and usage fees to pay for.
the Post Office,
I pay postage. I have been assured by the Post Office and the Federal government that the Post Office doesn't use tax money. Are they lying?
taken the mortgage interest deduction
That's not a government program. My money belongs to me, not the government. The government needs to take some of it to fund roads, police, etc. and that's fine. But a tax deduction is not a government program, it's a way for the government to decide just how it's going to get the money it needs.
To say that this is equivalent to a subsidized government program is to presume that the rights to 100% of the money I earn belongs to the government, and that any deductions, credits, etc. that I get are a grant from the government.
No. I have a right to 100% of what I earn. Government needs some of that money for legitimate purposes, so I hand it over. But what I keep is what I have by right. Not one cent of my paycheck not taken by taxes is a grant from the government.
Occam's Razor suggests you should have simply written "Telecommunism"--unless of course that simpler coinage offended your belief system somehow.
Not at all. Getting called a commie from conservatives is a compliment.
if the government didn't jack up phone bills with taxes 30%-50% of the total, more people could afford phone service.
X said...
if the government didn't jack up phone bills with taxes 30%-50% of the total, more people could afford phone service.
Taxing vital services is like friction. Someone elsewhere noted that taxing carbon (fuels and CO2) was most insidious because taxing carbon is like taxing life itself.
Garage why don't you move to Cuba? Seriously they have free health care, the kind of government you like, tropical weather and they sent all their conservatives to Miami.
If that's not a liberals paradise, what is?
@Hoosier: It's because he would have to give up his late model BMW and drive a '59 Chevy (though he's stated a preference for GM vehicles lately).
Garage why don't you move to Cuba?
Why don't you move to Somalia? I like it here, and I'm not the one saying America must be fundamentally changed.
Somalia would appear to be the conservative paradise. You can avoid the tyranny of not being able to buy inefficient light bulbs! That's key.
Paul Krugman's parents are alive? I doubt it. I bet they both committed suicide when they saw their son had become a piece of shit dumbass propagandist.
(though he's stated a preference for GM vehicles lately).
I said no such thing. I bought an Explorer for the wife a while ago at an auction.
Reasons: Price. Mileage. Condition. Leather. etc etc
Not reasons: Did Ford get bailout loan money from OBAMA?????????????
@garage mahal,
re: socialist is to Cuba as conservative is to Somalia.
That's a pretty blatant false equivalency.
A better equivalency is socialist is to Cuba as conservative is to pre-FDR government size/spending.
Conservatives crave peace and stability more than liberals do, and recognize the federal governments proper role...the fact that the govts proper role is probably smaller than 10% of what it is today doesn't mean we want no govt.
That's anarchy. You remember anarchists, right? That's the euphemism for liberals who plan/execute violent at pro-govt demonstrations to provide plausible deniability for leftist-biased news reports to provide rhetorical cover.
Somalia? LOL!
Not wanting to fundamentally change America? Then why did you vote for CHANGE!! Seems you want an America where the Federal government will make sure you have everything you need from birth control to daycare and its all FREE!
I can see why people tend to be liberal. It's like being a teenager whose parents just give them anything they want.
"We should subsidize people to live in McMansions, drop $100k a piece blockbuster bombs on foreign countries, bail out banksters but not to subsidize with tax money so they don't have to sleep in the street because you think their well being is a waste of money? That appears to be what some of you are saying."
It only appears that way because you obviously never learned to read effectively.
It's probably not too late for you to learn, but first you have to acknowledge your problem and seek help for it.
This must be a sample of the Safety Net 2.0. It features liberal emotional appeals which progresses the art of purchasing votes. It's key benefits are to denigrate individual dignity and sabotage character development.
It's not just a dedicated fund, they also accept the fungible Medicaid "insurance" and Food Stamps.
Does anyone still wonder how progressive involuntary exploitation is a sponsor of corruption? Well, at least they have good intentions.
Perhaps it's time to revisit the civil and human rights movement. It has moved from one extreme, real and perceived, to another, more progressive, extreme.
I wonder if shame affects the collectivist mind.
traditionalguy:
As I recall, Christ was an advocate for voluntary exploitation, presumably as a means for judgment of individual conscience.
Mary:
The civil servants are in the business of selling indulgences in exchange for votes. The non-profit/activist businesses do the same thing with the environment, animals, etc., in order to ameliorate people's guilt. The twist is that they all prefer involuntary (e.g. taxation, extortion) to voluntary exploitation (e.g. charitable works and donations).
It's a tried and true method to inflate egos, pad pocketbooks, and acquire power, leading to the corruption of individuals and society.
It's telling that the offenders resort to emotional appeals, which exploits a primitive instinct of human nature. It's pathetic, really.
I put this in the same category as any public assistance program. I don't see having a cell phone as a sort of unreasonable luxury. If one is going to help the poor, then a phone is probably better help than a lot of other things.
Like any other program it should be evaluated for effectiveness and efficiency and if it should exist at all.
But if I were king of the world and in charge of cutting assistance down to some level, I would probably cut something else first.
"Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport, the Post Office, taken the mortgage interest deduction or any of other the government programs that amount to tax subsidized benefits?"
Relevance?
Unless one is advocating a brand of total anarchy (since even libertarians believe in the military, courts, and police) how does it matter to discussions of what to pay for and what not to pay for with taxes if someone uses a government service?
If one thing is funded does that demand that everything be funded?
There has to be a place where "yes to this" and "no to that" happens.
Seems you want an America where the Federal government will make sure you have everything you need from birth control to daycare and its all FREE!
I want an America that doesn't obsess over women and their vaginas. Or any such stupid shit.
I should say that even hard core uber libertarian utopianists do not insist that government has no role in enforcing criminal law or national defense. So simply being libertarian doesn't even get a person to a point where taking part in a government service disqualifies an opinion about expenditures, and never mind that having paid for all of those government things they are already paid for by you.
(Argh! The wv thing is stuck on smenita... but not accepting it.)
If you pay taxes, you're paying other peoples' bills.
There's nothing particularly odd about it being their *phone* bills.
"I want an America that doesn't obsess over women and their vaginas. Or any such stupid shit."
Yeah, me too.
If I never see another Vagina Monologue poster it will be too soon.
Good lord garage. Lol!
Get some rest. You're more incoherent than usual.
Well.
And check the rest of your utilities--they have been extracting surcharges for years from us to pay for "poor" people to get cheaper rates.
No, they have been paying for people like DBQ to live in remote areas and have basic services (electric, water, phone, roads) while pretending they are rugged individualists.
I want an America that doesn't obsess over women and their vaginas. Or any such stupid shit.
Yeah I kinda like it better when there is less of Sully's yammering too.
"So all you right-wing cheapskates should just embrace the suck and get on with your life."
"Some of you pickers will never be happy until America life is like a Dickens novel."
"Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport, the Post Office, taken the mortgage interest deduction or any of other the government programs that amount to tax subsidized benefits?"
Are you somehow under the impression that proving free cell service is exactly like public roads, schools, police,fire etc...... Is there really NO spending that you wont consider as necessary to keep America from becoming a Dickens novel?
"I want an America that doesn't obsess over women and their vaginas. Or any such stupid shit." what in the world are you talking about? Would you have any coherent example of America that obsess over women and their vaginas? Possibly the most ignorant thing posted today.
"No, they have been paying for people like DBQ to live in remote areas and have basic services (electric, water, phone, roads) while pretending they are rugged individualists."
I stand corrected.
You know I think people like KenK haven't actually known any "poor" people.
What was that surevy that people could take that was linked online before? About how insulated certain groups have become?
Define "poor."
No, they have been paying for people like DBQ to live in remote areas and have basic services (electric, water, phone, roads) while pretending they are rugged individualists.
Not really in California. Our reservoirs and power plants tend to be out in the sticks, next door to the DBQs.
Taxing vital services is like friction.
Taxes generate heat? Increase entropy? Cause air to flow towards low pressure?
Going Galt looks more attractive all the time.
Jeez Freder, looks like you are still smarting from some long ago ass whupping you got from DBQ..
Madison Man postulated: Taxes generate heat? Increase entropy? Cause air to flow towards low pressure?
Yes, Yes, and Yes!
Taxes applied to an economy act like a brake- useful work is converted to bloviating hot air.
Taxes increase entropy or disorder an economy in the sense that free energy is converted to chaos and becomes less focussed.
I don't know about your third but it doesn't take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. :)
"Are you or have you ever used public roads, public schools, the police, fire, ambulance service, an airport, the Post Office, taken the mortgage interest deduction or any of other the government programs that amount to tax subsidized benefits?"
Most of those are paid for by user fees. the rest are constitutionally mandatory. Cell phones? Not so much.
Don't stop thinkin about tomorrow.
deborah said...
I skip your stuff, Skippy.
Well, FTR, I don't skip yours.
"... Possibly the most ignorant thing posted today."
That's only because Jeremy hasn't weighed in on this thread.
"... If one thing is funded does that demand that everything be funded?
There has to be a place where "yes to this" and "no to that" happens..."
Well yes, for adults. Only children believe there is an endless stream of money.
I apologize for what I said, chick. I read your stuff, but was skimming this thread.
That's only because Jeremy hasn't weighed in on this thread.
Give her a chance!
You gotta love it when references to Dickens and Somalia get thrown around in a thread about government-funded cell phones. Doesn't take much to get our liberals on their moral high horses, that's for sure...
I pay as I go. Stayed way away from telecom plans from the get go. They're no good and I knew it. Ech.
shiloh said...
Althouse please give Methadras a hug!
Shiloh, how many times have you been challenged to prove your claims that the poor are somehow victims of republicans if not conservatives, while you do nothing but make glib non-sequitors? You're a coward.
I don't understand what Somalia has to do with either conservatives, who tend to be "law and order" sorts, or capitalism, which requires not having war lords and strong men impeding free trade.
Which reminds me of a truly retarded moment in one of the TV shows I'm really enjoying (to my surprise.) The last episode of Grimm on Hulu had the good guys find a drying tent full of human organs (they act like panda gall-bladder to the magical creatures) and the detective (his partner is the only one who knows about the non-human creatures) says, "It's cannibalism" and the cop with them says, "it's capitalism."
And I'm all... excuse me, WTF?
And someone (okay, so I remember who) in that other thread thought it was so ridiculous to fuss about Sesame Street not teaching property rights.
And yes, if one is going to ignore the absurdity of associating murder with capitalism, it is a matter of property rights.
Anyone having this problem with the WV where it gives the same word over and over and then doesn't post?
I'm getting smenita again, which is the same as hours ago.
America's Dairy Cow said...
"I want an America that doesn't obsess over women and their vaginas. Or any such stupid shit."
Agreed.
So let's start a collection, and buy Andrew Sullivan a one-way ticket to another continent.
Any one separated by an ocean will do.
"I'm getting smenita again, which is the same as hours ago."
Yep.
I figure its the new agency for subsidized cell service for lower income Democrat voters.
"I don't understand what Somalia has to do with either conservatives, who tend to be "law and order" sorts, or capitalism, which requires not having war lords and strong men impeding free trade."
It has nothing at all to do with anything buy giving America's Dairy Cow the delusion of a pity comeback. In that way, it's a dodge, made in bad faith.
wv: smenita - the endless replication of a wv, mimicing the diminutive term of feminized (i.e., no males) "semen" used to breed the herds of mindless dairy cows voting Democrat for their "affordable" cell phones.
Methadras
Having not posted in this thread, you choose to childishly bring up my name and make a fool of yourself, non sequitur indeed.
Maybe Althouse can help you w/your juvenile shiloh fetish/obsession ie Fuck you and your bullshit ideology ...
or not.
Free cell phone= free health care.
If you don't have a cell phone how are you going to call 911 to send you an ambulance to take you 3 block to the hospital ER to get that sore throat looked at, after you forgot to get your free flu shot last fall.
"Not at all. Getting called a commie from conservatives is a compliment."
As if proof was not required, there you have it folks. Garage admits he's a big-government loving property-stealing communist. Can we close the book on this guy? Stop feeding, please, this oinker needs to go on a diet.
"buy Andrew Sullivan a one-way ticket to another continent."
Shouldn't he be getting his pothead limey ass deported about now?
Therre is also a program for poor people to have free landline phones as well.
Anyone who thinks not giving poor people free cell phones is the equivalent of trying to turn the USA into Somalia is a fucking drama queen with delusions. They certainly aren't making a coherent argument based on reality.
And as far as those Wall STreet bail outs go: I think it is great you finally found something other than military spending that should be stopped, but then again, you votged for Obama, who continued the bailout spending that cost John McCain the election.
If you were against corporate bailouts, then why the hell did you EVER vote for Obama?
Local telephony was paid by cross subsidies since 1910 until the Bell breakup
The ones here with their bullshit ideology are those like you, garage and Cook, shiloh.
Everywhere leftism is tried, more people are in poverty, their work ethic is destroyed and their actual civil rights are eroded if not simply gotten rid of.
I talking about actual US Constitutional style civil liberties, not the pretend ones invented by Communists/Progressives that amount to legalized theft and thuggery by Government in order to purchase votes and loot the tresury for their campaign donors, like Obama does.
is the justification of subsidized rural electrification in the 1930s and also subsidized-cost .. one problem. people in rural areas is richer ( white) than people in downtown( afrtoamerican). The real reason was rural areas had more represenatives in the local legislatures( with decreasing poulation) than the urban areas
You are misinformed. Food stamp/EBT/SNAP benefits can only be used for APPROVED FOOD ITEMS, sure, sir sure.Do you bleive in santa too? A man paid 36k for house in food stamps
This bill cost $776M the day that Barry took office.
Today the cost stands at $1.6B and climbing.
My Time at Wal-Mart
"The ones here with their bullshit ideology are those like you, garage and Cook, shiloh."
SGT Ted's conservative whining is duly noted as he would definitely prefer a 24/7 conservative circle jerk at Althouse.
If I recall correctly, one of the regular garagers said (paraphrasing) "You can get a prepaid cell phone for $20."
You can get a reasonably-priced monthly plan and a FREE phone from most mobile providers.
Of course, you might have to cut back to a pack a day habit.
It helps to purify the air as well as quality of Air Purifier.
Someone outsourced their grammar,too.
Is very interesting if you want to know more click here ... http://pc911center.com
It's even worse than you think, Ann. Not only are we paying for free government cell phones, but now the FCC has approved cheap internet Cheap Internet. Is there any doubt that this will become a freebie, too?
This is crazy! I have never heard of anything like this! I even work in a cell phone store in Pickering and this is completely foreign to me. It's weird to hear how our money is being used. Thanks for sharing this and raising my awareness.
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