About 50 minutes into Clegg's press conference -- in which he took questions from media members, students and UW-Madison faculty -- noise erupted outside the banquet room. Protesters, most of whom were UW-Madison students, could easily be heard chanting "Power to the people!"Power to the people?! You know, when one side is claiming constitutional rights, yelling about the majority's will is not impressive. Seriously, what is the point of a protest like this? What is it coherently saying? If you want to argue that there is no violation of rights... why are you yelling? And why are you breaking into a private place of business?
The article says the hotel secured its entrances, but one student got in "through the food services entrance and then allowed everyone else inside." And hotel "staff were... rushed by a mob of protesters, throwing employees to the ground."
Meanwhile, at Union South, there's a debate at 7 pm between Clegg and our wonderful Wisconsin Law colleague Larry Church. Will the 2 men be allowed to debate or will hostile voices try to drown them out? I'll let you know.
Posts
186 comments:
Will the 2 men be allowed to debate or will hostile voices try to drown them out?
We already know the answer to that one.
Leftist brownshirts, forward march!
[UW vice provost for diversity and climate Damon] Williams stressed the need for students to mobilize, and the students present did not seem to need any convincing.
“Don’t wait for us to show the way,” Williams said to students, who were already assembling poster board to make signs against the CEO president’s report and visit.
Shouldn't the faculty who rallied the students bear some responsibility?
Is this what democracy looks like?
"Is this what democracy looks like?"
It doesn't matter what democracy looks like when it's a case of constitutional rights. Democracy must lose. A better argument, addressing rights, is required, unless your point is to say: we hate rights.
I've just told the young'uns they're not going to U of W.
They're whacko up there.
$150K/yr, right? [UW vice provost for diversity and climate Damon] Williams
Anyone ask him about the polar bears lately?
This is what diversity looks like...
Madison seems to be stuck in a time warp.
"Throwing employees to the ground..."?
Hate to say it, but you people live in a disgrace of a City, with a disgrace of a University. Get a fucking grip on these criminals masquerading as "the oppressed". Idiots.
This is the true face of the Left: Those they disagree with have no right to free speech...or any other civil rights.
Of course that is what democracy looks like. Democracy is just a nice word for mob rule. All of the freedoms we hold dear in this country are secured by ANTI-Democratic provisions in our founding documents. Democracy when not limited is a gross and horrible thing. Our founders understood that and gave us a better system.
What is Alpha Libeler's take on this?
We were just discussing Madison shout downs by the left in the other thread.
crickets
Nice work, Damon Williams.
The article says the hotel secured its entrances, but one student got in "through the food services entrance and then allowed everyone else inside." And hotel "staff were... rushed by a mob of protesters, throwing employees to the ground."
This is not how you win friends and influence people. If stuff like that continues, Gov. Walker can probably do a round two on the issue of affirmative action.
Is there any possibility that we are not headed for a cataclysmic event, probably next spring if it continues to appear that the radical leftist agenda is going down in flames?
"In Madison: 150 protesters storm hotel to disrupt press conference given by the president of the Center for Equal Opportunity."
Wow, who could have seen that coming!?
Tom Spaulding said...
This is what diversity looks like...
Ummm...it looks more like "deservity" i.e., entitlement.
wv = "retsyn" Certs, with a sparkling drop of Retsyn!
The point of the "protest" is to crush dissent. These heirs to the segregationists of the 50's and 60's would use fire hoses and dogs if they could. Their purpose is to deny their opponents a platform, to deny anyone an opportunity to speak out against a dying racial spoils system that needs protection By Any Means Necessary. These are not liberals. They're leftists. They don't tolerate dissent. Moreover, they're afraid and they're most dangerous when cornered. And they're cornered.
All the Alinsky tactics are getting way too obvious. Soon, even sceptics will believe the truth.
somefeller said...
If stuff like that continues, Gov. Walker can probably do a round two on the issue of affirmative action.
I was thinking a round two of Kent State. Maybe that's just me.
Meanwhile, at Union South, there's a debate at 7 pm between Clegg and our wonderful Wisconsin Law colleague Larry Church. Will the 2 men be allowed to debate or will hostile voices try to drown them out? I'll let you know.
I for one want to hear more about Larry Church. He sounds like a high caliber professional.
This is what the children of baby boomer yuppies look like.
Most of the protesters in my college back in the 70's were upple middle class kids. However, the majority of us were from blue collar families. We had to work and were more grounded. We knew Nixon was a crook but also knew guys fighting in Viet Nam. An older friend of mine, Chuck Manarel, was killed in Viet Nam. I surmise these priviledged kids protesting in Madison are children of the priviledged kids of the 60's/70's.
Damon Williams said, in effect "Let's take these sons of bitches out!" And they did.
The UW needs to show the irresponsible Mr. Williams the door.
That's all the Mormons were implicitly shouting when they voted for Prop 8 in California:
Power to the people that don't want gay marriage!
How come that wasn't enough?
Yes, power to the people. The ever popular Marxist trope. The new civility on display.
Kevin I think it is unfair to use the Brown Shirts canard against the UW students in such a disingenuous manner.
The Brown Shirts were very much into hearing both sides of an issue. Ernst Röhm was a real seeker after truth, liked to go to debates and really weigh the issues. Jews are the problem? Please, Röhm would say, show me the data. Let's talk. He and his Brown Shirts were like that right up until the Night of the Long Knives.
These kids just wanted to have a discussion and they were afraid all the seats would be taken.
Toshtu said...
Madison seems to be stuck in a fuckwad warp.
Fixed for truthiness.
It's interesting that Diversity Commissars assume that they can just call up the students like a militia, and that their assumption is apparently correct.
Don't call these people thugs or Garage will wax sentimental.
Here are 150 UW students who obviously don't belong at the university. Replace 'em with 150 conservative students for some real diversity.
Gah.
This sort of thing makes me want to support whoever is being intimidated.
Jerks.
“Don’t wait for us to show the way,” Williams said to students, who were already assembling poster board to make signs against the CEO president’s report and visit.
Isn't the Vice Provost for Diversity and Climate instigating this crap?
It's interesting that Diversity Commissars assume that they can just call up the students like a militia, and that their assumption is apparently correct.
It is even more interesting that the students obey without any questions, their overlords in the older generations?
What ever happened to questioning youth and rebellion?
This generation has swallowed hook, line, sinker, rest of the line, tip top, windings, guide, butt guide, butt, hook keeper, handle, reel seat, reel, and half of the boat.
The President of the University should assign every student a twenty page paper due in three days for half of their grade. It would be graded by independent graders. Then the frat boys can beat the crap out of the protesters.
As long as they don't arrest people in Madison for all these illegal acts they will just keep getting bolder, angrier and more violent.
Althouse -- Obviously, I was being sarcastic. This is not what democracy looks like. I am all for democracy, as practiced in a civil way, and if the people of Wisconsin don't want affirmative action, then the people of Wisconsin shouldn't have affirmative action.
The Constitutional issue is and has always been the right to be treated equally by the state. As such, affirmative action has no place in the government domain. Affirmative action gives special, additional rights to certain people based on skin color or gender. That's wrong, always.
At any rate, crashing a debate is not democracy. It's not what democracy looks like. It's what mob action looks like. That's the point I was making -- that all these times when Wisconsin leftists say "this is what democracy looks like," it's not democracy at all. It's rule by private violence.
Those five protesters shown in the link look to be bottom-of-the-barrel AA losers. I wonder how many chromosomes that guy in the middle has?
Power to the People? Were these Laura Ingraham listeners?
It doesn't matter what democracy looks like when it's a case of constitutional rights. Democracy must lose.
No! No, no, no! You are wrong on first principles!
Where do rights come from?
There is either the popular sovereignty argument--which is democracy--or the idea that these rights are given to us by God. But if you're an atheist who doesn't believe in God, option #2 is no good.
Hence, rights come from our people. We have rights because we say we do, and we have put our beliefs into law.
Free speech is law, and those who would shut it down are hardly democrats.
The idea that our rights are anti-democratic has been put forth by fascist thinkers who love the idea of unelected rulers telling us what to do. But that is hardly the position of the Framers.
Read your Akhil Amar! Study Hugo Black!
`
I guess trespassing laws must be different up there than here in Texas.
So the BROKE into the private residence?
Where were the cops?
Here in Texas, with the castle doctrine, that is not a smart idea. That student could have been capped.
"throwing employees to the ground".
Isn't that called assault?
Man you liberals up there sure have some strange laws. Making it legal to throw people to the ground or break in.
Try that in Texas union thugs. Just come here and try that.
This is the Full Court Alinsky at work.
Stuff like this was the bread and butter of the Left during the 60s. All the talk of Peace and Love was followed by sit-ins, lock-outs, and non-negotiable demands.
ndspinelli said...
This is what the children of baby boomer yuppies look like.
This is what the children of Lefty baby boomer yuppies look like.
FIFY
The Baby Boomers also went to 'Nam and were the backbone of the Reagan Revolution.
Useless Grievance Tools, Assemble!
Suggested Chant: Free speech for me, but not for thee!
It's rhyme-y. Everyone looves a rhyme.
(But don't let me tell you what to say. I'm just the Assistant Acting Deputy in Charge of Kommunity Organization and Political Korrectness. And you will follow my orders.)
"UW Vice Provost for Diversity and Climate."
Question: Was there previously a UW Vice Provost for Diversity and a UW Vice Provost for Climate but budget cuts forced them to combine two useless progressive Provosts into one?
Power to the people!! But, can they carry a tune like this?
It seems self-obvious that a policy that gives preferences based on race is a racist policy.
Instead of trying to shut up anyone who wants to talk about that, maybe the protesters should explain why it doesn't matter.
That they chose to try to shut down the discussion suggests that they can't explain it.
(Also, "students" have already been admitted to the school, haven't they. Nice for them.)
Althouse - "
It doesn't matter what democracy looks like when it's a case of constitutional rights. Democracy must lose..."
Not so. What document starts with an expression of democratic will with " We The People" as source of the documents legitimacy? Add in Jefferson and Madison both strongly believed that the expressions of will of long gone generations should not become a Tyranny binding subsequent generations to their long ago democratic expressions of will. But that each future generation should have self-determination.
They made the Amending process too difficult and the revision process to update the old papers near impossible while other nations as well as cities, towns, and states schedule regular charter, state constitution revision times of 50, 60 years.
Lawyers sort of like to present the Constitution as a perfect,best left immutable, near-Sacred Parchment written by men infused with the Holy Spirit or something like that - that only the High Priests (the lawyers) may interpret and instruct the unwashed masses on. In what the law aristocracy now considers the "operative parts of the document", as well as any new emenations and penumbras not actually written down.
It isn't religious text, it isn't the Qu'ran instructing and ordering all aspects of society - it is just a old but well-done fucking Operating Manual for a Nation.
Please, genXers, get your own mottos. Quit stealing our old, worn out cliches. I mean, like wow,man. Cool it.
Right arm.
This is what happens when you have a local government that doesn't drop the hammer on protestors who cross the line, as the Madison constabulary should have done at the union protests.
Remember Seattle with the WTO talks in 1999? All the local grown up ex-radicals in local government thought "Awwww...how cute", and all hell broke loose.
The same group of protestors wanted a repeat in DC at the next WTO meeting, but the local police didn't share Seattle's nostalgia.
Result: no riots in DC.
I am BEYOND stunned that the "marketplace of ideas" that is the modern university silenced a dissenting voice.
This is not how you win friends and influence people.
This isn't an isolated incident from the Madison left. See their storming of the Capitol during the vote.
Well hang my upside down and paint me blue. In the last thread I said I expect the Madison students to be well-behaved and cordial about this issue. I'm gone thirty effing minutes and they pull this!
It's official, everyone: Regarding Madison liberals, expect the worst and you won't be far off. You'll have near clairvoyance!
What do we want?!
Fewer yellow people!
When do we wanti it?!
Now!
Apparently students learned how to breach buildings from the Capitol skirmish.
Well, at least they're learning something.
Democracy that allows the preference of one racial group over another can also allow it the other direction.
If the Constitution and Bill of Rights does not forbid racial discrimination, then all it takes is a majority vote. The students protesting about their preferences today better hope that their preferences always hold the majority.
Can't have it both ways.
@ndspinelli
This is what the children of baby boomer yuppies look like.
Um, no, wrong generation, GenXers are the parents, these students are the grandchildren of the baby boomers.
The leading edge of the GenXers are approaching 50, doesn't that make you feel old?
somefeller said...
The article says the hotel secured its entrances, but one student got in "through the food services entrance and then allowed everyone else inside." And hotel "staff were... rushed by a mob of protesters, throwing employees to the ground."
This is not how you win friends and influence people.
Good point, but this isn't about winning people to your cause.
It's about intimidation.
We have come to the point where this is fomented by a senior member of the university administration. It would be interesting to see a transcript of last night's "emergency" meeting.
What is the emergency about a lawsuit? To call a public emergency in response to anticipated legal action is a deliberate assault on due process.
Edgewood College is rapidly becoming the best place in Madison to send one's children.
Damn! Those college students will do everything they can to keep the races apart.
I suppose they're afraid others might otherwise suspect some miscegenation in their heritage.
The "brownshirts" have eaten the brown acid.
I graduated from UW and its law school and was always very grateful for the scholarship help without which I don't know how I could have managed that. For many years I contributed to general alumni and back bencher funds. Then , a few years ago I asked the alumni fundraiser if I could see the statistics about admission on race and ethnicity.I was assured it would be no problem and i said I'd respond to the appeal when i was able to persuade myself that the process was fair. I never did get it. I limit my contributions to specific programs--I know it's all fungible but i refuse to be a part of this crap.
one student got in "through the food services entrance and then allowed everyone else inside." And hotel "staff were... rushed by a mob of protesters, throwing employees to the ground."
They should all be charged, tried, and convicted of breaking and entering, as well as conspiracy.
Just a guess, but were the protestors pretty much all white?
The U of W is not equal opportunity in regards to protestors. White. And unattractive at that. When was the last time anyone saw a group of protest babes at UW?
Do they ever arrest anyone in Wisconsin?
Let me translate: "Power to the people" means "I have no clue why I am here, but I was told to be here and be in community"
A bastion of independent thought.
Thank your Diety that we don't live in a Democracy.
WV: tiontra:
Tiontra be glad as a mug, that she be given estra rating points so's she could get into UW.
Will the 2 men be allowed to debate or will hostile voices try to drown them out?
When's the last time an even vaguely controversial, even vaguely conservative campus speaker DIDN'T have campus protesters try to drown him out?
Maybe this will be one of those rare occasions.
"Will the 2 men be allowed to debate or will hostile voices try to drown them out?"
I'm going to guess that on one side of this debate, he can feel complete security that there will be no issue.
And with a lawsuit now being filed, anything and everything that Damon Williams has been doing is subject to discovery.
Perhaps also add a 42 U.S.C. 1985 claim to the lawsuit, with Williams as a named defendant in his personal capacity.
Let the U.S. Attorney get involved too, with a grand jury investigation under 18 U.S.C. 241 et seq.
Sounds like a conspiracy to violate Dr. Clegg's civil rights. Call out the ACLU!
dying racial spoils system-- could you please explain that? For a more complex debate on diversity then what is expressed here, I would suggest Professor Sandel's course on Justice, which Harvard now provides for free on-line-- I warn you it might complicate the issue, but will suggest where and why there are some merits. As to the protest, those who knocked others to the ground should pay a price, but not just because they protested at the conference.
"Power to the people" ...
the battle cry of the morally bankrupt disputant.
Roscoe T. Voltaire wrote:
For a more complex debate on diversity then what is expressed here, I would suggest Professor Sandel's course on Justice, which Harvard now provides for free on-line--
And worth every penny no doubt.
Ann is right. Anyone can gather a group of people and make claim to democracy, but that doesn't supercede the Constitution (or even local ordinances)-- unless anyone here wants to defend lynch mobs in the name of democracy.
This is the infuriating aspect of language-- these kids aren't "protestors" in any normal understanding of the word. Rather, they're fascist brownshirts, a mob determined to impose its will on others through unlawful means.
Madison is an unsafe place now.
Lynch mobs are not thinking straight. They will do evil things because they imagine that no on can stop them.
Someone strong will have to stand up and stop them.
Then Madison will become a safe place again.
Will the 2 men be allowed to debate or will hostile voices try to drown them out?
I think you'd have better odds on the Power Ball lottery than betting on civility.
My guess is that your Wisconsin students (not to mention your Dr. Williams) are so stupid that they don't even realize that they've basically conceded that they have no case. Otherwise they'd let the debate go forward and expect their guy Church to verbally dismantle Clegg.
Biddy Martin has to be drinking a toast to silver linings tonight.
Lord knows I tried but I could make no sense of J's comment.
can I play a commercial while we wait for news..
I love this one.
The RedSox showing signs of life lead 10-5, finally giving Wake a chance to win his 200th game.
Colorado lead Milwaukee 1-0
Ahouse starting to look more like the mafia each day.
Strongly symptomatic of paranoid schizophrenia. Please alert your parental unit.
And BTW, it's Althouse, in case you haven't noticed.
Roesche bringing out the Harvard. Cute.
I'm going to skip the class and give a simple lesson on first principles. Please just put your pencils down and just follow along.
States have plenary power. For the most part, they can pass any law they want. The federal government has limited powers. However, any power the federal government has is super-plenary, and over the power of any state.
There are three methods to amend the Constitution -- to give the federal government new plenary powers or take them away, or otherwise define federal power and law. Federal constitutional amendments need not be just or sensible. They could be really stupid, like, for example, a ban on the sale of alcohol.
Whenever there is a Constitutional principle at issue, the states have no power to modify it and state law must fit within what the Constitution allows. When the Constitution is silent, which is most often, the states can do what they want.
That's federalism. It's easy.
You don't have to take the Harvard class after all, because you have Seven Machos.
I'm confused as well. First, because I assumed all along that this involved a private organization.
How that is relevant to the behavior of the protesters eludes me.
even if there were some evidence of bias, the CEO's not the one to investigate it
But that's not what happened. An entity did investigate, and the entity found gross and unconstitutional usage of affirmative action.
Tell us what you know about the constitutional tests concerning affirmative action. If you cannot, and I know you cannot, tell us how much you can bench press and about how Jewish bankers from Britain had an evil cabal.
Tell us also how you are going to beat us up. Use the insult "yid" again if at all possible. A lot.
Because I love that shit. Love it.
So rich kids push blue collar workers to the ground because they want to shut up a speaker they disagree with and those stupid peasants are in the way.
dadvocate, I doubt they know that song, this one is more their style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNMVMNmrqJE
J -- Tell us about the "Jewish rackets." You know you want to! You know it's right there, waiting to come out.
You get the most diversity if you don't have women running things.
J said...
from Mesquito: What do we want?!
Fewer yellow people!
When do we wanti it?!
No link, blog,info--most likely Hoss of Sac! Yr favorite mormon white supremacist with dozens of names, and one of T-York's cronies
There's no link, genius, because I made it up. But vile discrimination against Asians is what this is all about, isn't it. Not having those yellow people taking up all the places in calculus class, right?
And sorry, I can't make heads nor tails of the rest of your comment.
Mormons? "Hos of Sac"[sic]? "T-York's"?
Sorry.
Awesome! I especially love "queer," as if that is something bad. You are still missing the Jewish aspect, though. Why?
Well, 150 "storm." And, no cops to be found. No one is arrested.
And, the "food services" is where the students eat?
This is the "climate?"
When this happened back in the early 1970's ... And, the movie ANIMAL HOUSE was based on what happened at Dartmouth ... The semester passed without a textbook being opened.
AND, it didn't matter! Graduations happened, anyway! What do you need an education for, if you can riot?
Of course, if you can get rid of these kids by testing them, and letting them fail ... that's one method that would restore order in a hurry.
150 protesters, though, is not your entire student body. And, what if this protest ENDS Affirmative Action programs SOONER, rather than later?
As a "military action" ... however ... "the one student in ... who then lets in others" ... isn't quite as bad as how Robert Kennedy got shot ... when using a food service exit ... in California.
Is this news getting attention outside of this university setting?
Also, what's with the Wicca part? Could you provide some background about that? That and the Jewish rackets and the cabal of British Jewish bankers.
Please elaborate. Use full sentences if at all possible.
J -- Okay. Satanists. Wicca participants. Gay people. And Jewish British bankers who run rackets. Those are the explanations I need thus far. With full sentences.
Also, how much can you bench again? For old times sake...
Why was this study done about U of WI?
Was there an extensive study done of multiple state schools (the big ten?) or all the lower 48 State schools?
Lord knows I tried but I could make no sense of J's comment.
J's works aren't worth the acetylcholine expenditure. His trollisms follow an invariable pattern:
1) A wild and wholly counter-factual claim regarding a tangential topic.
2) Occasionally someone bothers to refute him (just wanton cruelty, really, akin to zapping ants with a magnifying glass -- mindless automata vs. reasoning being is not an entertaining contest) which automatically produces...
3) A stream of puerile abuse and half-assed antisemitic screed, after which...
4) J departs for juicebox refreshment or nap time, depending on the local hour.
This is not about "protest", it is about crushing dissent behind Madison's Iron Curtain.
The union goons and student agitators will decide on the speech bans , and if that means breaking the law, no problem. Lefties don't get arrested in Madispn for assault.
J departs for juicebox refreshment or nap time, depending on the local hour.
This is the goal. I can usually achieve it.
“Seriously, what is the point of a protest like this? What is it coherently saying?”
Volumes.
Also, how much can you bench again? For old times sake...
J benches (shovels, actually) his weight in Twinkies every day.
Are the occultists and the Jewish British bankers the same group? Do they have rackets? Are they all members of the Ku Klux Klan? And what about the bench press?
J scrawled:
like the klan meets mansonites ...
The word you're looking for (but cannot find due to faulty brain chemistry) is Freemason. Masonite is a type of hardboard invented by William H. Mason in 1924.
The boxing gloves!
It's the FIST, again.
And, it's the ARTWORK!
This is not a real story! It's an attempt to make one up, though.
Since the "hotel" was found only after the room on campus proved ....
WHAT?
And, whose FOOD was it?
I didn't see anything about food in the boxing gloves flyer.
How did the "kids" rush this?
Did they walk over from their dorm rooms?
We're not in the capitol building.
Seems to me private property is involved.
TUBBS IS TOTALLY INCOMPETENT!
As to the hotel, they'll be smart NOT to book these "festivals."
ok - I think this study is wierd. Why would a group based in Virginia choose UW to study? Random school in the midwest? It's not an obvious choice.
If they want to make a better argument, they would show a pattern between multiple schools in the Big Ten or the Ivys or 30 state schools. This type of number crunching isn't that hard, and clearly this group has the funds for it.
"This study of the University of Wisconsin (UW) Law School builds on previous work on racial and ethnic preferences in undergraduate, law, and medical school admissions done for the Center for Equal Opportunity and is one of several CEO studies since the Grutter decision.2 As with CEO’s reports on three Virginia public law schools, the University of Michigan law school, the University of Nebraska law school, and the two public law schools in Arizona,..."
I assumed it was Charles Manson. How does Charles Manson fit into all of this? Is he a conservative Republican?
I must know. I must.
I can't believe I'm actually saving money to send my kids to college.
J said: No link, blog,info--most likely Hoss of Sac!
I finally get that "Hoss of Sac"! J's referring of course to Hoss in Bonanza which was set in a fictional town north of Lake Tahoe, which is not actually far from Sacramento which is where Rush Limbaugh once workd and Rush Limbaugh kinda sorta looks like Dan Blocker who played Hoss.
That makes sense to me now.
Why would a group based in Virginia choose UW to study?
Because UW Madison is acting grossly unconstitutionally in its admissions process.
Your mention of Ivies it telling. You do understand that there is much more leeway for private schools to use affirmative action or not, right? Please say yes.
I didn't go.
But, ya know, strip people of their rights and their power and their voice and you wind up with angry people.
As ye reap so shall ye sow.
strip people of their rights and their power and their voice and you wind up with angry people
So what? Do angry people have a license to commit crime?
Further, I agree that you reap what you sow. So, just for example, if you have an archaic economic model from 1930 and refuse to change it, you are likely to be voted out of power. And then, when you are voted out of power, you don't have any power. Like you and your cause. Now.
Sweet dreams, little powerless dude.
The same plutocrats who funded the campaign to strip public employees of their collective bargaining rights funded Ms Chavez' campaign to close doors on minorities.
They paid for the hotel room and the research and the press and the collaboration with the Federalist Society.
It's all one big oligarchic octopus. Just different facets of the same corporate political syndicate.
Scaife, Koch, Rove, et al. Our corporate lords.
Alpha wrote: As ye reap so shall ye sow
Nice! You transposed the sow and reap just like a good little outcomes oriented statist would do.
Did you see any right wingers shouting down the left?
AlphaLiberal said...
I didn't go.
But, ya know, strip people of their rights and their power and their voice and you wind up with angry people.
As ye reap so shall ye sow.
__________________
Yep. Remember that statement. You'll learn from it, but not the way you think.
How about a criminal investigation of Damon Williams for his role in instigating violence?
As several other commenters have noted, Mr. Williams seems to have a private militia at hand.
Why has this happened?
Bonanza [was] set in a fictional town north of Lake Tahoe, which is not actually far from Sacramento.
Tell that to the Donner party.
Scaife, Koch, Rove, et al. Our corporate lords.
A regular Koch-topus in you mind, eh?
Hey, who wants to hire any of those morons in the linked photo? Anybody?
Democracy: A pair of wolves and a sheep deciding the evening's regale.
The constitutional republic we live in protects the rights of the minority against the temporal majority.
In theory it does at least, along with case law and influential ideas, after many horrible deaths happened (slaves for instance via just the Hell getting here) with no rights at all apparent.
This happens less here than lots of spots.
Omega returns to prove that he's a thug, in addition to being a contemptible racist.
You're vile, Omega.
The dumb SOB is actually arguing that, if you don't like the source of funding of your opponents (and he has no proof of his assertions), that you have the right to commit violence against them.
Alpha is such a rube. He can't accept that people are voting their interests -- to force the State to treat people equally, to dismantle an antiquated economic system that provides a lush, easy life for public employees while private sector jobs, especially in manufacturing, simply evaporate.
He can't handle that. So he must create a fantastic demonology. It goes thus: there are tricksters. These tricksters are Karl Rove, the Koch brothers (whoever they are), Scaife (whoever that is). These tricksters deceive the people into voting against their interests. Alpha represents the forces of light who will show the people the True Way.
Sadly, it's all not working out for Alpha. So he does what all people with a failed demonology do: he starts ghost dancing and praying the gods to deliver the cargo, just like the days of old.
If it wasn't so hilarious and predictable and obvious, it would be sad.
Funny how Tea Party events wholly without violence are described as violent while events with leftists "throwing employees to the ground" are described as "sometimes tense but mostly uneventful". How stupid do you have to be not to realize the media is the leftist propoganda arm?
“Don’t wait for us to show the way,” Williams said to students"
Sounds a lot like "be a Lone Wolf" doesn't it?
The constitutional republic we live in protects the rights of the minority against the temporal majority.
Temporal? Are you implying there is another kind of majority (spiritual evidently, given the historical usage of 'temporal') that is unrestrained by constitutional provisions? Oh, of course! Silly me. A blue majority need never cede a prerogative to a red minority.
Alpha wrote: As ye reap so shall ye sow
The swift is not to the race nor the strong to the battle.
@Alpha says, "But, ya know, strip people of their rights and their power and their voice and you wind up with angry people." Just wondering if you do not see the irony meter off the deep end when you say this? Or are you finally talking about those in the room who's voice was shouted down today, or at the captol building, or at the Tea Party Palin Rally, or Gov Walker at any event he attends. Are those the people who are going to finally get angry with this stomping all over their rights?
Yeah, I didn't think that's what you meant...too bad, the shoe fit.
If this incident and that photo of the protesters represent the best our Universities are outputting to compete against China...I'm bettin' on China.
Video on the protest at the hotel at www.channel3000.com Locals will find it amusing to see all of the police standing around watching. Those from away that have questioned how you break in to private property, assault employees, trespass and violate the civil rights of others...in Madison you do it with the union police making sure you're safe while you violate.
"roesch-voltaire said...
dying racial spoils system-- could you please explain that? For a more complex debate on diversity then what is expressed here, I would suggest Professor Sandel's course on Justice, which Harvard now provides for free on-line-- I warn you it might complicate the issue, but will suggest where and why there are some merits. As to the protest, those who knocked others to the ground should pay a price, but not just because they protested at the conference."
And there's RV with his predictable effort to protect the fringe. One problem with his sad little condescension act: it's not the conservatives who don't understand the other side of the issue. It's RV's side, those engaging in violence to ensure others don't learn the other side of the matter. Funny how RV's perfectly fine with that side of the issue not being known. Why isn't that a concern RV? Kind of an obvious flaw in the facade?
UW vice provost for diversity and climate? That's a real position? In a real university? Hahahaha.
What more needs to be said about the state of education? These people need to hope the higher-ed bubble never bursts. I just can't see there being a need in the real world for a Provost for Diversity & Climate. hahahahaha It's very funny.
How much are parents paying for this privilege?
I never imp lie sir. Every lie I tell is severely non-impish I assure you.
NotquiteunBuckley said...
"The constitutional republic we live in protects the rights of the minority against the temporal majority."
No: It protects some rights of individuals by restraining the majority.
Rick said...
"Is there any possibility that we are not headed for a cataclysmic event, probably next spring if it continues to appear that the radical leftist agenda is going down in flames?"
Yes. The left used to say precisely this—verbatim, save "right" for "left"—during Bush's term. One thing I've learned as I've gotten older is that you should bet on muddling through every time.
"I spent time in my youth at the Univeristy of Wisconsin. During some pretty violent times at colleges across the country. What we're seeing today is pretty tame...."
That's not a quote, a quick paraphrase I just heard on Greta.
Dick Cheney
The constitutional republic we live in protects the rights of the minority against the temporal majority.
What right does one student have to get into a university because of skin color or gender or any other attribute? Where is that enshrined in the Constitution? Number and verse, please.
I'll wait.
it's not the conservatives who don't understand the other side of the issue. It's RV's side, those engaging in violence to ensure others don't learn the other side of the matter.
Truer have never been spoken.
Especially, "to ensure others don't learn the other side of the matter." Ignorance must be enforce as knowledge would defeat them. They, themselves, don't understand and don't want to understand.
Emotionally, logical understanding is fearful. Seeing the truth, frightening. Better to wrap themselves in a blanket, close their eyes and repeat "Lalalalalal" than face reality.
J blathered:
fuck you satanist thats all you need to know, Seven Nachos. (sic, all of it is sic)
Seven nachos -- J's vision of Hell, being 69,993 shy of his normal daily intake of said snack.
Yet Simon,
I said "in theory" at some point in that comment, so I can say whatever I want.
Just like when someone says "With all due respect" that means that person can say whatever they want to someone with no reprecussions. IT SURE AS HECK DOES MEAN IT IN THEORY.
Ricky Bobby brother, Ricky Bobby.
wv: cootort suing one's mother for cooing: too much, too little, right amount but wrong tone, etc.
"more leeway for private schools to use affirmative action or not, right? Please say yes."
yeah of course. would be an interesting study, though.
I think they came to Madison to stir up up sh*t because they think people can be easily stirred up.
edutcher said...
"[ndspinelli said that this is what the children of baby boomer yuppies look like.] This is what the children of Lefty baby boomer yuppies look like. FIFY ¶ The Baby Boomers also went to 'Nam and were the backbone of the Reagan Revolution."
I agree. I have a theory—a bit of amateur sociology if you like—that part of our problem today stems from some instant evolution in the early 70s. The good people—the decent people, the patriots—they did what they were told, went to Vietnam and got killed, so they didn't get to reproduce and raise kids like themselves. We lost their contributions and those of their children to our current situation. Instead, the ones who got to reproduce and raise kids just like themselves were disproportionately the bad people: the draft dodgers, the hippies, the dissenters. The Jane Seymours of the world got to reproduce and even those who didn't were able to wield disproportionate influence because the best of their peers were killed. It's just a theory.
"Synova---you're hanging with the lowlifes of Blogdom. Their every belch is a lie ,defamation, insult or logical fallacy. So discussion is impossible--especially when Ahouse skews the information
The "CEO" has a reputation for BS.It has nothing to do with U WI. Looks like its funded by the Kochs, in part. So that should have been made obvious. The facts are dubious--there may be some bias issues but its about like having the klan investigate, more or less"
J, suppose it was the Klan. At what point is that relevant?
This is what you have not explained. Unless your argument is that people saying bad things or things you don't like do not have civil rights. It seemed like you were saying that the fact this was a private organization was relevant, but that made no sense. If what you're saying is that the people were bad people, that still makes no sense.
We're discussing the disruption of a private event, entering of private property and what is reported relatively clearly as assault on employees of the hotel.
Explain how it matters that it was not a UW event or UW property?
Explain how it matters who was paying for the venue?
Explain how it matters what they were talking about?
Try a hypothetical: There is a small but fairly prestigious science fiction convention (I believe it's actually in Madison, but I may be mistaken) that is essentially Women's Studies for SF. Imagine some group disrupting their event in the name of free speech against the exclusion of the patriarchy in concert withe the community for clearly segregated bathroom facilities. Imagine that they snuck in through the kitchens and opened all the doors.
How would that be different?
Sigh ...
The U.S. is NOT a democracy. It is a REPUBLIC.
Thatisall.
Canuck -- Why would it be an interesting study? Private schools exist for many functions. For example, many private schools are almost entire black -- historically and by choice. (Some public schools are as well, and that is for some reason uncontested.) Some schools are Catholic, or Mormon, or wholly secular.
"Try a hypothetical: There is a small but fairly prestigious science fiction convention (I believe it's actually in Madison, but I may be mistaken) that is essentially Women's Studies for SF. Imagine some group disrupting their event in the name of free speech against the exclusion of the patriarchy in concert withe the community for clearly segregated bathroom facilities. Imagine that they snuck in through the kitchens and opened all the doors.
How would that be different?"
----
How? My @#$% tax dollars would not be involved.
But, ya know, strip people of their rights and their power and their voice and you wind up with angry people.
I'd be pissed to if a bunch of privileged whites refused me an education cos I'm yellow.
The United States is a democracy. More precisely a constitutional republic, as per some document over a hundred years old (from what I hear).
I can quote Presidents, both of the United States and of Universities, along with great wordsmiths, agreeing with my position, because it is the correct position. I argued about this on the radio once, and the host ended up saying smart people know that America is a constitutional republic so when they use the word it's not wrong, but when others do it is. Seriously. I couldn't think quick enough to disagree strongly enough and switched topics.
Democracy is just an imprecise word to describe the United States, not inaccurate in most contexts although if at a convention titled "Constitutional Republics and Direct Democracy: The EXACT same thing to everyone always?" then I would agree the imprecision is so overwhelving as to lend credence to your position.
Garage was at the "protest". He's a certified, paid DNC thug.
Seeing Red -- you're kidding, right?
It's the "yellows" -- to use your racist term -- that have cleaned the floor in terms of quality of life here. And I cheerlead the HELL out of them. They WORK. They believe in FAMILY. They don't WHINE.
Sounds like the right kind of Americans to me.
Erratum: I didn't mean to libel Jane Seymour, I meant Jane Fonda.
Re democracies and republics: the United States was designed as a Republic in which democracy had a limited place (viz. electing the House). Over the course of the 19th century we added an additional democratic component of which I approve in making Presidential elections much more democratic, and in the early 20th century we added an additional democratic component of which I decidedly disapprove in making the Senate subject to democratic election.
As you reap, so shall you sow.
Aha! Keynesian agriculture.
BuckleyDude --
Only one element of the legislature, the House of Representatives, operates on a strictly majority-rule basis; read: democracy.
Thank God.
As you reap, so shall you sow.
Wow! Keynesian agriculture.
Simon wrote:
Erratum: I didn't mean to libel Jane Seymour, I meant Jane Fonda.
Thank gawd! Jane Seymour (the oh-so-hot Bond girl and not the simpering dam of Edward VI) illuminated my pubescent fantasies, and my taste in women has followed the Seymour holotype ever since. (Except when I get a itch for Jenny Bowker in her Andromeda guise.) For awhile there I though we might come to metaphorical blows over la belle dame's honor. (Actually I have no idea what milady's politics are, nor could I care less.)
It's the "yellows" -- to use your racist term -- that have cleaned the floor in terms of quality of life here. And I cheerlead the HELL out of them. They WORK. They believe in FAMILY. They don't WHINE.
Well, yeah, Asians have done rather well, which is why we ought to use affirmative action to screw them.
Punish success and reward failure. Repeat as necessary until social justice is achieved.
Punish success and reward failure
That's the Obama First Principle, is it not?
“I confess,” he wrote, “that in America I saw more than America; I sought the image of democracy itself, with its inclinations, its character, its prejudices, and its passions, in order to learn what we have to fear or hope from its progress.”
Go ahead and google it.
You should be able to make some coin on your claims, arguing against giants in their field.
he believed that the world was undergoing a “great democratic revolution,” that it is inevitably and irreversibly becoming more and more democratic. And this belief is what motivated his deep interest in America, for his visit convinced him that America had achieved in a peaceful and natural way almost complete “equality of conditions.” By understanding America, he thought that we could not only understand what democracy means, but in a way even glimpse the world’s future.
Quaestor, :) Age has treated her well, too; a cameo on How I Met Your Mother a few years back found her looking very fetching.
NotquiteunBuckley, not everything Tocqueville said was correct. But in any event, you seem to be confusing the verb to see with the verb to seek. Tocqueville said that he sought; I don't recall him saying that he found.
Democracy in America is now widely studied in America universities, and it has been quoted by Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, and Congressmen. Humbler instances of its influence abound; for example, the name for the most generous category of giver to The United Way is the “Alexis de Tocqueville Society”.
http://edsitement.neh.gov/democracy-america-alexis-de-tocquevilles-introduction
“I confess,” he wrote, “that in America I saw more than America; I sought the image of democracy itself, with its inclinations, its character, its prejudices, and its passions, in order to learn what we have to fear or hope from its progress.”
_____
Okay, I get it.
You thought Mom and Dad would chase the boogeymen out from under the bed, and they didn't.
Man up.
NotquiteunBuckley said...
"[Tocqueville] believed that the world was undergoing a 'great democratic revolution,' that it is inevitably and irreversibly becoming more and more democratic."
I don't accept that things inevitably get worse. Democracy, to my mind, at least in the sense of a complete system of government, is a failure—even a reductio ad absurdum —of the republic. A well-designed republic contains democratic elements, as ours did, but it does not carry them too far, as we now have.
NotquiteunBuckley said...
"Democracy in America is now widely studied in America universities, and it has been quoted by Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, and Congressmen."
I don't disagree. It was one of the first books I read after moving here. It's also a surprisingly conservative book, IIRC. But as I said above, not everything he said was right.
What Maguro said.
“Democracy is not a fragile flower,” Reagan said. “Still it needs cultivating. If the rest of this century is to witness the gradual growth of freedom and democratic ideals, we must take actions to assist the campaign for democracy.”
"While we must be cautious about forcing the pace of change, we must not hesitate to declare our ultimate objectives and to take concrete actions to move toward them. We must be staunch in our conviction that freedom is not the sole prerogative of a lucky few, but the inalienable and universal right of all human beings. So states the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which, among other things, guarantees free elections. The objective I propose is quite simple to state: to foster the infrastructure of democracy, the system of a free press, unions, political parties, universities, which allows a people to choose their own way to develop their own culture, to reconcile their own differences through peaceful means. This is not cultural imperialism, it is providing the means for genuine self-determination and protection for diversity. Democracy already flourishes in countries with very different cultures and historical experiences. It would be cultural condescension, or worse, to say that any people prefer dictatorship to democracy."
June 8th, 1982, Westminster Address Ronaldus
Eowen wrote:
The U.S. is NOT a democracy. It is a REPUBLIC.
I must side firmly with UnBuckley on this one. You have restricted the concepts in a manner wholly at odds with observable facts.
The United States is both a democracy (of the representative genus) and a republic (of the classical liberal genus). There are many republics that are not democracies (probably most of them if one is judging by actual practise as opposed to constitution stipulation), and there are democracies that are not republics (the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium and the Netherlands readily come to mind).
It's time to dismount your hobbyhorse, it's going nowhere.
The discussion over whether the United States is a democracy or a republic is obviously wholly semantic. Any time people resort to semantics, they have automatically lost the argument, or led themselves to some useless place.
That's an ironclad rule.
You folks are being too imprecise for me: you intend to say "direct democracy" and instead say "democracy" while claiming I know not what many others know, some of them great people of historic importance: America is a democracy, but more specifically America is a constitutional republic form of democracy as opposed to a direct form of democracy, taken to its extreme form meaning every person votes on every issure affecting them in any way (entirely impracticle).
The Democrats are obsessed with their legacy of upholding a selective rule of law. There really is no better way to subvert a civilized society than to destroy people's perception of an impartial and fair governing authority.
Institutional discrimination by incidental features (i.e., "diversity") is profitable to both the purported beneficiaries and the providers. They will not part with their economic enterprise without sufficient encouragement; and, this will promote the progressive corruption of individuals and society.
Well, this nation had the potential to realize an enlightened society (i.e., rejection of superior or exceptional dignity); but, it seems that a selective history, and appeals to emotion, may be too much for people acting in good faith to overcome.
Then again, there is a progressive resistance to efforts seeking to substitute totalitarian policies for moral knowledge (i.e., self-moderating behavior), and the reduction of liberty which it entails.
There is a progressive resistance to policies which denigrate individual dignity and devalue human life.
It seems there is still a slight majority of Americans who would prefer to confront and resolve issues on their merit, despite the physical violence and emotional extortion which they have and continue to suffer.
Affirmative Action was intended to facilitate the transition of individuals who suffered from discrimination. It, like welfare, and other forms of involuntary exploitation, was never intended to introduce a permanent dysfunction in our society.
If people believe it is still needed, then it is past time to review why its intended outcome has not been realized.
Hell, I concede everything to everyone based on my grammar.
Need sleep.
A quick think (always dangerous) has led to what is for me a startling revelation. In spite of Obama's rejection of the concept American exceptionalism is a demonstrable fact, if only to the extent that this country has virtually unequaled endurance as both a democracy and a republic (Iceland gets the laurels, but only if one counts her Viking Age and Medieval incarnations as republics, which is not how they are generally treated by historians. Iceland was for most of her history a dependency of the Kingdom of Denmark, albeit a loose one.)
Democratic republics are remarkably short lived compared to non-republican democracies with the exception of the United States. By quick thinking (always dangerous) I conclude that the German Federal Republic has had the longest life as a functioning democracy after the USA's amazing record. I exclude the Philippines and the Republic of South Korea on the grounds of the extended "strong man" regimes of Singman Ri and Ferdinand Marcos.
Maybe there's method in the apparent madness of a monarch reigning over a democracy.
"-- Why would it be an interesting study? Private schools exist for many functions."
I was thinking of the Ivys because of what it means to get a degree from one of them. Otherwise I agree with you.
Regarding the other discussion -- Perhaps USA = Democratic Republic?
It sounds like we're having the "Jefferson and Liberty" vs. John Adams debate again.
Rejoice, Columbia's sons, rejoice
To tyrants never bend the knee
But join with heart and soul and voice
For Jefferson and Liberty!
Now that was a good campaign song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKnCBWCW8kM&feature=related
I may have done Turkey a grave insult. Their record as a democratic republic is long in deed. Ataturk was a strong man figure, but he passed in 1938.
Israel has been a democratic republic since its foundation in 1948, beating Germany by 1 year.
Didn't I say quick thinking was dangerous?
"It sounds like we're having the "Jefferson and Liberty" vs. John Adams debate again. "
Well, when HAVEN'T we had this discussion!!!!
Thia mob action was directly instigated by you Vice Provost, Ann.
Who were the storming goons?
What if they were UNION and not students? You think you could organize this successfully among students?
Even to the door to the kitchen ... makes no sense STUDENTS figured out! This is a professional heist!
If the kitchen doorway had been blocked, this scum would have come up through the basement!
Now. HOW DID THEY ARRIVE?
You're a STINKING HOTEL. You have "doormen." Whose lives depend on tips. And, you have a garage, where cars (of certain values) get parked.
And, access is easy?
What? Are you in Cairo?
"a theory--a bit of amateur sociology if you like"
A very amateur theory, since compared to the loss of life during WWI, the percentage was way too small to have the effect you posit.
the students only support affirmative action in theory. no one actually supports affirmative action if it negatively affects themselves, but they'll generously support it at someone else's expense.
it's simple enough to prove me wrong, but no one ever does.
ndspinelli, if you would like to post something for your friend, Chuck Manarel, please go here.
But, ya know, strip people of their rights and their power and their voice and you wind up with angry people.
Really, Alpha, what rights, voices, and power has been stripped from these students?
It seems to me they're to use their voices and power to shut down opposing voices-- is that something to celebrate?
And if what you say is true about reaping what you sow, a shitload of my fellow yellows should be beating down your door and putting you in traction, along with every other fuckwad "I'm a progressive" racist.
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