May 18, 2011

They say that 20-foot cross that the ACLU objects to was a gift from Woody Allen.

What a funny world we live in!
The ACLU of New Jersey threatened legal action against the Neptune school district after an attendee at last year’s graduation ceremony took offense to the building’s religious symbols and Christian-based references -- among them a 20-foot white cross above the auditorium’s entrance. The ACLU asked the school to remove or cover up the cross and three other religious signs, arguing their visibility during a public school event is a First Amendment violation....

The Camp Association said it could not cover the cross, said to have been a gift from movie director Woody Allen, who used the auditorium during shooting for the 1980 film "Stardust Memories."
Interestingly, if this case goes to court, the key Supreme Court precedent will be Van Orden v. Perry, the case about the 10 Commandments monument on the Texas State Capitol grounds, and that monument supposedly originated as a promotion for the Cecil B. de Mille movie "The Ten Commandments." From the oral argument in Van Orden:
Justice O'Connor: How did this monument get there? Was it in... is it true that it was put in as a result of promoting a movie about the Ten Commandments?

Mr. Chemerinsky: The record is unclear as to that. There are certainly many indications in the popular press that Cecil B. DeMille together with his movie, The Ten Commandments, worked with the Friends of Eagles to have these monuments put around the country. But there is nothing in the legislative history that links this particular monument to that.
And the cross is only said to be a gift from Woody Allen.

Where do all the religious stories come from? If there were movies back in Biblical times, what movie directors would be wandering around in those old Judeo-Christian stories? Anyway, I tried to find a YouTube clip showing the cross in "Stardust Memories," but I can't remember that movie well enough to know what scene it's in. I did run across this clip from Woody's "New York Stories" that has a little Larry David performance in it. And here's Larry David saying "Religion should be made fun of, it's quite ridiculous, isn't it?... If I really believed that stuff, I'd keep it to myself, lest somebody think I was out of my mind":

72 comments:

Hoosier Daddy said...

...."Religion should be made fun of, it's quite ridiculous, isn't it?.."

Well 'certain' religions that is.

Scott M said...

Well 'certain' religions that is.

Some should be lain down and avoided.

The Drill SGT said...

The ACLU should walk away from this one.

MarkG said...

"Religion should be made fun of, it's quite ridiculous, isn't it?"

Yeah, everyone else's.

DADvocate said...

took offense

Did the person really take offense or are they just your typical asshole who wants to force everyone into doing as they want them to?

Shouting Thomas said...

Where does Woody Allen rank in the sexual asshole derby?

Before or after Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dominique Strauss-Kahn?

Scott M said...

or are they just your typical asshole who wants to force everyone into doing as they want them to?

Some people have severe control issues. They grow up to be cops, ACLU lawyers, or transgenders at Harvard. Most of the time, two of the three at least.

Phil 3:14 said...

Not to go all C4 but

the secular Jew is such an intriguing phenomenon of our age of Enlightenment.

Interesting that Woody Allen has regularly wrestled with this.

This scene from "Crimes and Misdemeanors" puts this in focus

edutcher said...

Notice in these cases it's usually just one (whomever). When did the "offense" of one person (usually a crackpot) begin to determine how people can live their lives?

(I know, whenever we let the Lefties in charge...)

Scott M said...

(I know, whenever we let the Lefties in charge...)

More specifically, when we let them sacrifice the English language at the alter to their PC god.

Comrade X said...

give the kid an AP credit in Anger Studies and send the diploma via the secular USPS. next case.

PatCA said...

Why do these lone "attendees" and their fragile sensibilities get to change our laws and traditions? The worst one was the "individual" who walked around a Chicago suburb peeking into public windows until he found a Christmas tree inside a fire station. Peeking in their window, he was mightily offended at the sight!

This is not equality; this is sibling rivalry.

Quayle said...

"All religion depends on revelation. All revelation is supernatural. If you wish to be a rock hard empiricist, then you should not entertain any religious doctrine whatsoever."

Harold Bloom

E.M. Davis said...

"Religion should be made fun of, it's quite ridiculous, isn't it?"

Yeah, everyone else's.


To be fair to Larry David, he certainly has ridiculed Judaism.

Hoosier Daddy said...

...."To be fair to Larry David, he certainly has ridiculed Judaism...."

Well that's one of the safe ones.

The Drill SGT said...

Shouting Thomas said...
Where does Woody Allen rank in the sexual asshole derby?

Before or after Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dominique Strauss-Kahn?


In decending order of assholeness?

1. Polanski: drugging and forceable anal rape of a child
2. DSK: forceable rape of an adult
3. Allen: sleazy 44 year age difference, though not married to mother, had a step-father relation ship with young woman and slept with her. No crime, just sleaze
4. Arhnold: consenting sex, fathering child outside of marriage. immoral and sleazy, but not illegal

Christopher in MA said...

"Religion should be made fun of. It's quite ridiculous, isn't it?"

Not knowing - nor caring - whether Mr. David is speaking as himself or as "Larry David," my answer would be "Here's a hundred bucks, Larry. Go make fun of global warming. Or better yet, Islam. You can have the money when - sorry, IF - you come back in full posession of your limbs."

E.M. Davis said...

Well that's one of the safe ones.

I was responding to the comment "everyone else's" , which made it sound as if David ridiculed everything BUT Judaism.

I do recall Seinfeld as being quite un-PC for its time. Now, I don't think he has ever taken on Islam specifically, but I could be wrong.

Quayle said...

"Religion should be made fun of. It's quite ridiculous, isn't it?"

Not half as ridiculous as the eat-or-be-eaten world of the non-religionist.

Lots of people love to shout 'Darwin reigns - there is no god!' until they find themselves a zebra with a lion chomping on their hind quarter.

Then they look anxiously and longingly for a god.

traditionalguy said...

Today's empiricists are the ones who will fake the data anytime no one is watching them. Not that there is anything wrong with lying, stealing and killing...after all there are no standards except for winning the wealth game.

ic said...

Is Neptune a Roman god? Does ACLU only fight against monotheist worship but support polytheist? Me think they should sue to get rid of the Roman god.

roesch-voltaire said...

After the rapture this Saturday, Religion will have the last laugh.

Ann Althouse said...

"Not knowing - nor caring - whether Mr. David is speaking as himself or as "Larry David," my answer would be "Here's a hundred bucks, Larry. Go make fun of global warming. Or better yet, Islam. You can have the money when - sorry, IF - you come back in full posession of your limbs.""

Larry David has made fun of Muslims.

Christopher in MA said...

Has he, Althouse? My bad, then. As I said, I neither knew nor cared. But good for him, then.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Larry David has made fun of Muslims.

But did he do it with cartoons??

roesch-voltaire said...

Or one could say that religion often is man's egotistic misunderstanding of God, and that aspect of religion should be made fun of--The Muslims shouting Allahu Akbar while killing other Muslims for example. The claiming that bad weather is a sign from God meant to punish New Orleans etc.

Fred4Pres said...

People really need to lighten up.

Fred4Pres said...

Of course you can make jokes about anything...

even Mohammed.

If the joke is funny, it's funny.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...The Muslims shouting Allahu Akbar while killing other Muslims for example..."

Yes the Mohammed cartoon was a good example of that but after a bunch of Muslims rioted and killed a bunch of people over it, the lefties said it wasn't funny and threw in the cultural insensitivity (racism) card for good measure.

Oclarki said...

Isn't the ACLU just an excuse for smart jews to beat up on Christianity?

Phil 3:14 said...

After the rapture this Saturday, Religion will have the last laugh.

Yes, just as Joe Stalin represents all socialists, Joe McCarthy represents all Republicans and Dennis Kucinich represents all liberals, so the followers of this small "end times" movement represent all of Christianity and religion in general.

J said...

Van Orden vs Perry--ah that case where Don Scalia insisted the First Amendment doesn't concern the separation of Church and State, but means....the Govt can invoke God, and Old and/or New Testament scripture at will, and post the 10 commandments at courthouses. The case where the SC decided Reason doesn't matter and that Jerry Falwell is as important as Jefferson, Madison, etc. All part of the phun, from Judge Tony "Bozo" Scalia & Co.

Scott M said...

Is it really a movement? I thought it just one guy and bunch of billboard/bus ads.

CachorroQuente said...

"The claiming that bad weather is a sign from God meant to punish New Orleans etc."

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. claimed that it was God's punishment of Haley Barbour. Either Kennedy is not so good at geography or his God has bad aim.

Shouting Thomas said...

J, sometimes I think I'm kidding when I tell you put down the crack pipe.

But, this comment... whew!

That's a testament to Purple Haze if I ever saw one.

I've got to give you credit, though. Few crack addicts I've known would even bother to post comments on a website. At least, you're trying.

E.M. Davis said...

I think we should ridicule religion ... along with everything else in life.

J said...

12:57. Matter of fact, it isn't Shouting Dimwit--but that's yr usual blackshirted ad hominem.

Then, you're the guy who thinks Jefferson Davis was a good christian (even those SC federalists Scalia & Co would probably object to that). It's unlikely you could distinguish FirstAmendment/Separation clause from yr klan sheet.

Scott M said...

I think we should ridicule religion ... along with everything else in life.

Sure, religion and everything else in life. The Big Guy upstairs, though....mmmmmnotsomuch.

DADvocate said...

According to FoxNews the building is owned by a Methodist organization and the high school is using it for graduation. My high school graduation was in a large Baptist church as we had no auditorium at my school.

Didn't offend me even though I'm Catholic and was sometimes treated poorly by Baptists. I was just glad as hell to get out of high school.

DADvocate said...

The Big Guy upstairs, though....mmmmmnotsomuch.

Really big, bad natured guy living in the apartment above you? My son is really big. You make fun of him at your own peril. ;)

Scott M said...

Really big, bad natured guy living in the apartment above you?

No, no. That's the big guy upstairs. The Big Guy upstairs, on the other hand, is a completely different matter. All three of 'em.

J said...

Scalia's point on a right to "invocation" in the Perry vs Van Orden transcript may itself be a mistake--the usual "Establishment Clause" cases involving public education are all opposed to allowing prayers or invocations in state institutions. Not that anyone noticed. Why is the US Govt./House/Senate any different ?? Maybe because Scaliaita and his cronies say so. The Scalia/Rehnquist/THomas/Kennedy court's mockery of the First Amendment and the US Constitution has been going on for 20+ years.

Shouting Thomas said...

J, that was almost coherent.

Take another hit. You need it.

They oughta have an insult contest for crack addicts. I'd pay to watch that one.

Do you have a problem with constipation? That's not an unusual side effect.

J said...

You're not here to judge shit, you lying bag of human excrement . You don't even know what this is about.

And when I locate you, Ill resolve the problem by kicking in your teeth, mafia retard.

Scott M said...

And when I locate you, Ill resolve the problem by kicking in your teeth, mafia retard.

That was a great jump, Fonz.

Revenant said...

The reason American comics don't joke about Islam much has nothing to do with fear of reprisal. There are two main reasons:

(1): In this country, Muslims are a religious minority with virtually no political or cultural influence. So mocking Islam (as opposed to, say, Muslim terrorists) leaves a bad taste in many people's mouths.

(2): Telling jokes about subjects your audience knows nothing about and can't identify with doesn't really work. The overwhelming majority of Americans know next to nothing about Islam and never encounter Muslims in their everyday lives.

Christianity, on the other hand, is the majority faith and a major force in our culture. Despite the heartfelt desire of some Christians to play the part of martyred minority, the truth of the matter is that American Christians are not and never have been the subject of any real discrimination in American society (well, aside from persecution by OTHER Christians, as happened with Mormons and Catholics). So poking fun of Christianity doesn't strike most people as "picking on the little guy" the way mockery of Islam or Judaism does. On top of that, if you grew up in America you are guaranteed to have at least superficial knowledge of Christians and Christianity, as well as repeated exposure to the more vocal and obnoxious elements of the faith like Jehovah's Witnesses, Pat Robertson, Jim & Tammy Baker, etc. So Christianity makes a great target for American comedy.

One final note -- American Jews are pretty much THE driving force in American comedy, and have been for around forty years. Every generation of American Jews prior to the baby boomers grew up in an environment in which Christian Jew-hatred was openly practiced by many American Christians and implicitly or explicitly endorsed by many churches. This spurred a long-standing tradition of Jewish comics making fun of obnoxious Christians. It wasn't Muslims who barred Grandpa from getting into college and it wasn't Buddhists who refused to let mom and dad use the community swimming pool; it was Christians.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"....That was a great jump, Fonz...."

Heh. I thought of the Black Knight in Monty Python with his limbs hacked off talking shit.

Dude is comedy gold.

Scott M said...

Dude is comedy gold.

Who? John Cleese?

Revenant said...

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. claimed that it was God's punishment of Haley Barbour. Either Kennedy is not so good at geography or his God has bad aim.

God has excellent aim; he managed to lead His chosen people to the one place in the middle east that hasn't got any oil in it. :)

Revenant said...

Lots of people love to shout 'Darwin reigns - there is no god!' until they find themselves a zebra with a lion chomping on their hind quarter.

Yeah, we atheists like to yell that all the time. True story.

Shouting Thomas said...

You're not here to judge shit, you lying bag of human excrement . You don't even know what this is about.

Well, yeah, J... I was asking you about the constipation.

So, I wasn't judging shit, I was asking if you are having trouble shitting.

When Clapton was doing heroine, he had a terrible problem with constipation.

I was trying to reach out to a fellow human in distress. I'm not judging your shit, J. I wondering if the problem is that you can't shit.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...So poking fun of Christianity doesn't strike most people as "picking on the little guy" the way mockery of Islam or Judaism does...."

True. Harder to play the race card when dissin Christians. :-)

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...Who? John Cleese?..."

No J. His posts are anyway.

DADvocate said...

Revenant - you remind me of the comment posed to Matt Yglesias:

"Have you ever had a thought on the topic of race that isn't set generations into the past? Have you ever thought about the future?"

I'm 60 years old. When were Jews not allowed in swimming pools. I swam with Jews on my swim team when I was a kid. Their parents had gone to college somewhere and I went to a state university with some of them. Nobody I knew dissed them.

Most Americans know enough about Islam to get a joke about them. Not that the joke wouldn't be in poor taste. But, that hasn't stopped many of the jokes about Christians, nor has misinformation. You'd think you'd see more editorial cartoons about militant Muslims though.

Of course, jokes are often funniest to the group that is the butt of the joke. Catholics tend to laugh hardest at tasteful jokes about Catholics. What's black and white, black and white, black and white...?

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

I'm 60 years old. When were Jews not allowed in swimming pools.

If you'll be kind enough to re-read what I wrote, you'll see I said "every generation of American Jews prior to the baby boomers". I.e., the generations before yours.

Jew-hatred by American Christians was pretty much shamed out of existence after the Nazi atrocities were revealed, and was mostly gone by the end of the 50s. The elite institutions of American society (clubs, Ivy league schools, etc) didn't entirely eliminate anti-Jewish discrimination until the 1960s. Jews of the Baby Boomer generation were the first who could reasonably expect to be included in mainstream American society without concealing their religious background.

Most Americans know enough about Islam to get a joke about them.

They know enough about Islam to get at least two or three jokes about it. :)

DADvocate said...

every generation of American Jews prior to the baby boomers"

My apologies, but why are comedians telling the jokes now? Can't the current comedians come up with any thing newer? I have noticed that many Jewish comedians don't hesitate to joke about their own religion and culture.

B said...

'Heh. I thought of the Black Knight in Monty Python with his limbs hacked off talking shit.'

At least the limbless Black Knight actually tried to bump King Arthur. J is more like the French wuss atop the safety of 30 ft walls taunting the Brit knights with the threat of farting in their general direction.

Scott M said...

J is more like the French wuss atop the safety of 30 ft walls taunting the Brit knights with the threat of farting in their general direction.

I would have guessed he's more of a Prince Herbert type.

Revenant said...

My apologies, but why are
comedians telling the jokes now?


You expect the resentment to vanish in one generation? Sheesh, some Christians still haven't entirely gotten over being fed to lions 1800 years ago.

But the main reason is that Christians keep doing silly things -- most importantly, things that most *Christians* think are silly, too. This week's scheduled rapture is a prime example.

Oligonicella said...

Quayle --

"they look anxiously and longingly for a god."

Aside from wishful thinking, what possibility is there of you knowing this?

DADvocate said...

This week's scheduled rapture is a prime example.

There you go making fun of the rapture!! You'll be laughing when planes fall from the sky because the pilots disappear, trucks careen off the road, and all the other chaos that will occur.

Heathen.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...Sheesh, some Christians still haven't entirely gotten over being fed to lions 1800 years ago...."

Oh please.

Revenant said...

Oh please.

Here, let me Google that for you:

Christians in the Roman Empire were doused in oil, impaled on poles and used as torches to light the garden parties of Rome; fed to lions and wild beasts in the gladiator's arena; used for archery and javelin practice; cut in pieces; etc. And in this matter, modern society is still the same today.

john bord said...

The cross is a symbol of what...... cold hard graphic death..... much like the noose is a symbol of death. Another popular instrument of death was the axe for beheading's. These were used to punish law violators.... supposedly/alleged law breakers.

So what law is the ACLU violating and what will their punishment be....?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Here, let me Google that for you:

Thank's Rev. I'll have to bring this to the Monsignor's attention this Sunday. Sermons haven't been just dont have the same fervor when we're not bitching about what the Romans were doing to us a millenium ago.

But seriously, if you can actually find some Catholics who still have a raging hardon against the Roman Empire that number more than the digits on my hand, let me know.

Revenant said...

But seriously, if you can actually find some Catholics who still have a raging hardon against the Roman Empire that number more than the digits on my hand, let me know.

I hope you didn't put your back out moving those goalposts, Hoos. :)

el polacko said...

nearly every biblical epic of the '50s and '60s was about christians being persecuted, tortured, and thrown to the lions and the public...uhh...ate it up.
as they say, if you experience an erection that lasts a couple thousand years, see a (jewish?) doctor.

JAL said...

Revenant -- you never heard of Achmen the Dead Terrorist?
134,000,000+ views

Kirk Parker said...

Phil 3:14,

Every time someone dumps on Woody Allen, I think of Crimes and Misdemeanors. What a sublime piece of work; NOT that it excuses any of the many moral failings of his life, not at all. But I think the world would be a slightly poorer place without this one particular glimpse into the banality of human evil.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...I hope you didn't ...put your back out moving those goalposts, Hoos. :)...'

I wasn't the one who said there were still Christians who havent gotten over the horrors of the coliseum. :-)

E.M. Davis said...

But seriously, if you can actually find some Catholics who still have a raging hardon against the Roman Empire that number more than the digits on my hand, let me know.

Yeah but, the Jews killed Jesus. ; )