It's a very bright sunny day here in Madison, Wisconsin. A bit windy and cold. The crowds were much thinner than yesterday, but it's still early here. I'm wondering if the Democrats' escape from Wisconsin — which is preventing a vote on the budget plan — is draining energy from the crowd, cooling down the fervor.
Nothing can happen until they come back, and we don't know when they're coming back. I spoke some people who work for a Democratic senator, and they didn't know how long the legislative exile would persist. The idea is to slow things down, at least to express outrage about the way the Republicans "rammed things down our throat."
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36 comments:
You can't always get what you want.
Good slogan for the sloganeers chanting in Madison.
The leaving the state thing seems like a stunt. But how different is it really from a filibuster that the minority has to work harder to accomplish? As a matter of politics, is that really a bad thing?
OT: Grammy's reporter Serene Branson was diagnosed with migraine aura, not a stroke.
(The Crypto Jew)
You certainly are a footloose man.
4 day weekend
Eh, Walker can wait, you don't need a budget til June, right? Someone suggested cutting off their government-paid cell phones, credit cards, etc., assuming they have them. Since they aren't working seems like a good idea.
And who is paying their hotel bills? The Democratic party? The state? It will be interesting to see if they try to file travel vouchers for their expenses.
But how different is it really from a filibuster that the minority has to work harder to accomplish?
Wow. The "filibuster!" thing has really taken root, hasn't it?
Kenny - one big difference is the filibuster can be overcome procedurally by vote. Running out of town and holding yourself hostage has no known ending.
Kenny,
The filibuster is part of the process. It's a legal way to slow down the process. In basketball analogy, it's the old four-corner offense. Legal, but frustrating.
The D's taking themselves hostage and issuing demands from Rockford is the equivilent of walking off the court with the ball because they don't want to play anymore.
It's also like my 4 year old daughter used to do when she knew she was about to lose her king in chess-- flip the board before she lost.
The filibuster is part of the official rules of the U.S. Senate, which the Senate adopted and could change.
Now, somehow the Wisconsin senate has provided for this quorum rule and set up the situation where the senators can run away, so in that sense it's part of the rules.
The crowds were much thinner than yesterday, but it's still early here.
Did you check the bars?
(The Crypto Jew)
One question Kenny, does Wisconsin HAVE the “filibuster?” Riddle me that, if they don’t then this ISN’T like the filibuster, it’s like violating the law! Don’t confuse State and Federal Procedures. The only “Senate” I have ever heard that had the filibuster was the US Senate. I have never heard of a STATE Senate having that authority. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am. So Kenny what you’re saying is that running away=an illegal procedural move=kidnap the President of the Senate’s Significant Other/Offspring.
(The Crypto Jew)
Now, somehow the Wisconsin senate has provided for this quorum rule and set up the situation where the senators can run away, so in that sense it's part of the rules.
I’d disagree Althouse, that is akin to saying, “Because Ecstasy is NOT on the Schedule of Controlled Substances, the “State” approves its use.” No, instead it merely means that this eventuality wasn’t foreseen by the creators of the rule.
so in that sense it's part of the rules.
But it's all clearly against the law, so in that sense it definitely isn't.
so in that sense it's part of the rules.
Ann and I finally agree on something ~ Kumbaya!
"Members of the senate may not be absent from the daily session during the entire day without first obtaining a leave of absence. The leave may be granted at any time by a majority vote of the senate." --Wisconsin Senate Rule 16
Hang on and check back. I got some good stuff.
Yessssss!!!!
It's also interesting that it's the same ratio. You need 60% of the legislators to make a quorum.
Against the law? I mean, yes it's apparently the case that the law can compel Senators to return for a vote, but if only one Senator did not show up for the vote, would he/she have broken the law? What triggers it as a violation of the law? In any case, I was not making a legal case (and I'm not a lawyer).
The fact that the senators have to leave the state, and if they try to return risk capture by the police, very much makes it more difficult than a filibuster. I've seen many people criticize the U.S Senate filibuster for being too easy. This has the effect of a filibuster that is much more difficult to execute.
Running out of town and holding yourself hostage.
I doubt Wisconsin really wants to pay the ransom.
There's a "B" movie in here somewhere...
Re: Leaving the State to prevent quorum
Isn't there an oath of office that Wisconsin state senators must take whereby they promise to faithfully fulfill the duties of the office?
Wouldn't that include showing up to vote -- or at least preclude conspiring with others to prevent a vote by a means not provided in duly enacted rules?
Blogger TWM said...
Eh, Walker can wait, you don't need a budget til June, right
Yup. June 30th. Plenty of time.
Kenny,
The law of conspiracy recognizes that what may be legal for one person to do on his own can become criminal if done by two or more people conspiring together.
or at least preclude conspiring with others to prevent a vote by a means not provided in duly enacted rules?
Possibly a crux. It does seem far more odious when you conspire to break an oath, if the oath does require faithfully fulfilling the duties of the office involved.
WV - "hakedge" - smoker's cough
Grammy's reporter Serene Branson was diagnosed with migraine aura, not a stroke
I've never seen evidence of a migraine causing speech changes. Very interesting.
Yup. June 30th. Plenty of time.
When was the last budget that passed by that deadline? The 2009-2011 one just missed, IIRC, and the ones before that were sometimes months late.
Someone at Ace suggested cutting of their direct deposit pay and issuing checks instead. Checks they have to come pick up personally.
That I dont know MM without googling. And I'm plum googled out.
Musical references for the pre-elderly? Permanent grooves in the brain from old vinyl?
Linked with video: 'Socialist Public Employees Call for Revolution in Wisconsin'.
Well, you know, there's a three-day weekend coming up, and if you're taking the day off, you might as well go do something more fun with your four day weekend than standing outside in the cold shouting, "Hey hey, ho ho!"
Any chance of a recall or impeachment (as in, mal/mis/nonfeasance) to divest these slugs of their office?
MadisonMan said...
Grammy's reporter Serene Branson was diagnosed with migraine aura, not a stroke
I've never seen evidence of a migraine causing speech changes. Very interesting.
Depends on the person, I think. The Blonde used to have terrible migraines with varying symptoms. While unusual, from what I saw, I could believe it could disrupt brain function.
Did these Democrats feel the same way when Obama rammed the stimulus bill and the healthcare bill down our throats in record time?
Prolly not.
Any chance of a recall or impeachment (as in, mal/mis/nonfeasance) to divest these slugs of their office?
Locally, I think some citizens have already put together a recall petition for one of 'em.
I'm surprised the crowd was thin since teachers forced the closure of MPS today. They must have just decided to get an early start on the weekend. Maybe they had some shopping to do.
Is it true that nothing can happen until the Democratic senators return? If you read the constitution, the 3/5ths quorum requirment appears only to be for fiscal bills. The current Union provisions are part of the budget bill. However, maybe the republicans could pass a new bill which only contained the controversial provisions since arguably they are not fiscal related. (i.e. making a right-to-work law does not require tax or spending). Or i.e. withholding state employee funds is not taxing or spending by the state....
Thye could do this without needing the 3/5ths majority....
They could try and pass a concealed carry law. That might bring at least one Dem back.
at least to express outrage about the way the Republicans "rammed things down our throat."
Not that the Dems have done something similar with overreaching legislation on the Federal level in the last year or so...oh no. Not at all.
Nosirree//
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