June 2, 2009

"I knew pro-abortion zealots and Fox News haters would attempt to blame us for the crime."

Bill O'Reilly stands his ground after the Tiller murder:



(Via Think Progress.)

52 comments:

hdhouse said...

The most enjoyable thing about FauxNoise is watching the lengths some of the commentators go to disavow any rabblerousing responsibility for anything.

Lupha Bill will still say that his late night phone sex attempts were little more than a wrong number.

He shouted fire in his little theater plenty of times against the Doctor and he either takes the responsibility that comes with "america's most watched news network" or that is just a sham.

scinfinity said...

...and MSNBC has produced a ton of vitriol. As has the anti-war movement. It is nice to see the Left complain about vitriol (just as it is nice to see them complain about somebody being called a racist for no good reason...where were they when Pickering got crucified?), but it does seem awfully self-serving.

Can you honestly argue that the demonizing of the military as committing war crimes wasn't a major contributor to the shootings in AL?

Jason said...

Oh, for crying out loud - liberal hypocrisy knows no bounds. These bobble-headed ignoramuses who had nothing to say when Airhead America talk show host Randi Rhodes made reference to assassinating President Bush, who had nothing to say when Airhead America talk show host Matt Malloy referred to Vice President Dick Cheney as "A destroyer," "an eater of human flesh," when artist Richard Serra magazine portrayed an American President as a cannibal eating the head off of a child, all of a sudden these hypocritical bastards are fainting at O'Reilly's overheated rhetoric, when O'Reilly did nothing but accurately state what this cretin did for a living and said what he thought of it, without sugarcoating it.

Furthermore, by doing so, libtards undercut the pro-abortion position. You cannot assign culpability to Bill O'Reilly, or any other commentator (absent a direct call for violence) without also assigning culpability on Tiller for bringing it on himself.

Tiller knew the risks, even more than O'Reilly.

As I see it, there are only two individuals on the planet culpable for Tiller's murder: the gunman, and Tiller himself.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Oh please. This is about as weak as the Clinton bullshit about talk radio inspiring Tim McVeigh.

Daniel Fielding said...

I think the late Dr Tiller was responsible for his own murder. He continued to perform late term abortions, even when he knew that doing so made him a target of extreme anti-abortion activists.
Folks from the Left and the Rihgt can blame FoxNews or whoever else they want to, but, Dr Tiller bears 50% of the responsibility, along with Scott Roeder his alleged killer.
I am surprised that Dr Tiller didnt carry a concealed weapon on him ta all times. He could have then saved himself by shooting ta his assailant.

Commnets liek th e previous one convince me that a lot of leftists still suffer from a variation of the "Bush Derangement Syndrome". :)

And BTW, if one complains about "right wing vitriol", has anyone listened to Keith Olbermann? O'Reilly at least pretends to be "fair and balanced". Olbermann is just , plain hate-filled vitriol.

Pogo said...

The pissing contest to see who has the more hateful media commentators is unwinnable.

Can't they all just die?

Ooops.

rcocean said...

Good for BOR. He's one of the few center-right commentators that fight back with passion. A refreshing change from the likes of Tucker Carlson - whose probably apologized to 20 liberals already today.

The left have always been hypocrites - they know it works - read the "Rules for Radicals".

Daniel Fielding said...

While the Left is wringing its hands over the shooting of Dr Tiller, I hear nary a peep from them about the Black, muslim convert, who shot and killed an USArmy recruiter yesterday in Arkansas.
Or is it OK to just go and murder our men and women in uniform? I Didnt hear Olberman or Maddow even mention this murder on MSNBC. NPR barely mentioned it yesterday, or even this morning.

MadisonMan said...

I think the late Dr Tiller was responsible for his own murder.

Rather a complicated way to commit suicide.

Aaron said...

Several points, most of which I made in the last post.

First, to those on the right, it’s a little silly to say that there is no chance O’Reilly inspired the killing. He was harsh on Tiller in life and even in death. The correct answer is to say that this is the rough and tumble of freedom of speech. The fact is that if you accept the view that a fetus is alive at any point before birth, what Tiller did was reprehensible. What he did was apparently legal (which is a correcting from something I said yesterday and the day before), but frankly it shouldn’t have been. I have yet to see a single case where late term abortion is justified, especially because it almost always begs the question: why didn’t you do this earlier?

To the left, I find the hypocrisy and the self-righteousness to be a bit much, too. the same papers and blogs that ran story after story on abu ghraib, worrying that O’Reilly stirred up people prone to murder. Further, for all the claims that his killer was a terrorist, the left clearly doesn’t believe it because it has yet to ask “why do they hate us?” vis-à-vis Tiller’s killer.

Of course I don’t want the NYT to be stopped from smearing our troops, except perhaps by their own consciences and the fact their bias is running them into bankruptcy. Nor do I want anyone asking why they hate us. Letting a person settle a political debate with bombs and bullets is the very opposite of democracy. I would just hope that the left would recognize these things, and apply them equally to all cases. Can the left at least start with casting aside the idea that the proper response to lawlessness is to give in to the lawless? Then we could move on to the mature idea that when you debate life and death issues, that sometimes people will decide to take the issue too serious, go crazy and kill a few people. It can happen with anti-military propaganda, such as the killing at that recruiting center recently, or it can happen with anti-abortion rhetoric.

SMGalbraith said...

Is there any evidence that this vile murderer ever watched Fox News or O'Reilly?

From what I've read from the ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center, organizations that monitor these fringe groups, the people involved in these movements are quite insulated and get their "information" (if we can call it that) from obscure fanatical websites or ham radio shows.

They view the mainstream press as run by the Jews or some other nonsense and simply don't trust it.

Furthermore, this murderer apparently has been involved in anti-abortion protests and other causes for more than a decade. I doubt that the statements about Tiller by O'Reilly, if the murderer was even aware of them, had any effect on his already twisted mind.

Anyway, before saying "A" caused "B", you have to show that "B" was connected somehow to "A".

And nowhere have I seen that link.

Except in the twisted minds of a madman like Keith Olbermann. The same Olbermann who calls the Republican Party "the leading terror group in America" and that "Fox news has done more harm than the KKK".

Yes, we're being instructed on civil discourse by Keith Olbermann.

Sigh...

SteveR said...

The guy was a nut and a criminal long before BOR ever mentioned the name Tiller. So if someone takes a shot at GWB, I guess we can blame Olbermann?

I thought it was ironic, they mentioned right next to the Daily Kos rampage against BOR for inciting the killer, was an ad for a speaking engagement by Bill Ayers.

AlphaLiberal said...

O'Reilly is such a clown.

While the Left is wringing its hands over the shooting of Dr Tiller, I hear nary a peep from them about the Black, muslim convert, who shot and killed an USArmy recruiter yesterday in Arkansas.Obviously, that really sucks. From what I've read the guy has a few screw loose.

But that has nothing to do with anyone else. There's been no hate campaign against troops. It's truly one individual acting alone.

Very different from the case with Tiller where an entire movement, US Senators, broadcast networks targeted him and whipped up the hysteria.

nice try at deflection, though.

Pogo said...

But Dr. Tiller was saving women's lives, while those military men were recruiting more baby killers and Abu Ghraib maniacs.


"one individual acting alone..."
But amazingly, a Muslim.
What a coincidence!
All those Muslims individuals acting alone all across the world, shooting people and blowing shit up.
No connection at all.
It's a mystery!

Xanthippas said...

As has the anti-war movement. It is nice to see the Left complain about vitriol (just as it is nice to see them complain about somebody being called a racist for no good reason...where were they when Pickering got crucified?), but it does seem awfully self-serving.

Can you honestly argue that the demonizing of the military as committing war crimes wasn't a major contributor to the shootings in AL?
Yes, that's exactly. "The Left's" legitimate opposition to the war in Iraq = advocacy of shooting military personnel.

Just wondering: have you noticed Olbermann calling military recruiters "teenage killers" or anything like that? No?

Get a brain, moran.

Aaron said...

Alpha

Nice lie there. but not only is there a hate campaign against our troops, but you have personally participated it it, as i demonstrated in the last thread on the o'reilly/tiller issue.

And that is your legal right. i would hope that you had better morals than to lie about the war and whip up terrorists against our soldiers, but since appeals to conscience are unavailing, there is nothing else i think should be done about lying jerks like you.

Aaron said...

Pogo

Are you making fun of the left, or agreeing with them?

Its frankly hard to tell.

knox said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AJ Lynch said...

Alpha said:
"Very different from the case with Tiller where an entire movement, US Senators, broadcast networks targeted him and whipped up the hysteria."

Let's see there is Code Pink. The MSM practically followed Cindy Sheehan around. Senator Kerry accused troops of scaring Muslim kids in the middle of the night. Senator Durbin called them something, Rep. Murtha called them murderers.

I am sure others here could add more examples.

Why do you have such a strong opinion in this Alpha? Is it all about scoring points to you?

knox said...

Obviously, that really sucks. From what I've read the guy has a few screw loose.

But that has nothing to do with anyone else. There's been no hate campaign against troops. It's truly one individual acting alone.

"Obviously that really sucks" LMAO!!

Alpha, trying to pretend to care about something that doesn't serve him politically.

traditionalguy said...

It is sad to watch lawlessness from any person or group of organized persons. The new commenter Florida seems to like the lawless way to what people want, and that point of view is becoming popular today. It is hard to love your peaceful enemies, but it is impossible to ignore violent and lawless enemies for long. That in itself will justify an oppressive government restricting our liberties. People get the degree of freedom that they use responsibly. But then again, when people believe that they are merely products of a survival of the strongest evolution process, the will to power philosophy becomes very attractive. Therefore whatever unrest that Bill O'Reilly has caused is dwarfed by the violence that Atheistic-Darwinists have caused since 1880.

Pogo said...

"Pogo
Are you making fun of the left, or agreeing with them?
"

The statement 'But Dr. Tiller was saving women's lives, while ...etc.' was meant as sarcasm.

Given the left's actual beliefs, I can understand the difficulty.

Aaron said...

Pogo

Tell me about it. sorry. :-)

Aaron said...

Comedy gold from Alpha liberal:

> A big difference here with liberals. We tend to adopt the SAME principles to apply to us as well as others. Conservatives have on set of principles for them and a completely difference set for anyone else.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=7250264236786000731&blogID=6329595&isPopup=false&page=1

Alpha meet alpha

Alpha's first personality...

> There's been no hate campaign against troops.

Second personality

> And the crazy part[] is that hundreds of thousands of people died as a result [of Bush's supposed lies].

Of course in saying that he was undoubtedly basing that on the lancet study which has defamed our soldiers claiming that they have been killing hundreds of thousands of iraqis. or 8,000. give or take.

Aaron said...

Hdhouse

By the way, can’t let this silliness go unanswered:

> The most enjoyable thing about FauxNoise

“See, I am clever because I just came up with a clever name for what I hate. I am as smart as Maureen Dowd!”

Seriously, grow up.

> He shouted fire in his little theater plenty of times against the Doctor

The problem with that point is this: it is only wrong to shout fire in a crowded theater if and only if there isn’t actually a fire. Now can you point at anything Bill has said which is untrue?

And indeed that line about shouting fire in a theater comes from the Supreme Court. They have made it clear that only in that kind of situation where you wantonly create panic in an area where panic is dangerous, are you committing a legal wrong. By comparison in Brandenburg v. Ohio, the SC said even a threat of violence is protected by free speech unless it is likely to result in imminent lawless action and intended to do so.

But keep ringing that fascist bell. Sheesh. You know, because partial birth abortion is so important we have to destroy freedom of speech to avoid even the slightest threat to it.

scinfinity said...

"Yes, that's exactly. "The Left's" legitimate opposition to the war in Iraq = advocacy of shooting military personnel. "

Sorry. All of the "war criminals" talk might lead some to think that killing them is justifiable.

And I'm quite glad that the Left didn't write books and make movies about assassinating political figures they don't agree with. My, that would have been quite over the line.

...and, say, any idea what happened to the "legitimate opposition to the war"? It's not over, shows no signs of ever ending...but, my, the Left is awfully quiet nowadays about how bad it is.

"Just wondering: have you noticed Olbermann calling military recruiters "teenage killers" or anything like that? No? "

Torturers seems to be bandied about quite frequently by the Left. But I guess that's better...

And, well, John Murtha called them murderers (in addition to Durbin calling them "Nazis"). So, I guess we can blame this on the Democratic Party and not MSNBC...so that must be of some relief for you.

"Get a brain, moran."

And make you feel more lonely? That hardly seems nice.

And nice use of ad hominem when logic failed you.

Aaron said...

> Get a brain, moran.

You know, calling a person a morOn is alot more effective when you spell the word correctly.

mcg said...

I wonder if Xanthippas is the same dude that was holding up the "Death to the (Zionist) Juice" sign awhile back.

Aaron, I'm glad you're here, I've got work to do this morning so I won't be able to join in the fun pummeling AlphaLib. Just so you know, though, when you cut through the snark hdhouse is actually an honest debater, unlike our friend AL. So if you're prioritizing your time...

Pogo said...

Heh. I was trying to figure out who 'moran' was.

Chip Ahoy said...

Get a brain, Moran.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Stop it, you're killing me over here.

Aaron said...

Oh, wait, wait, i have decoded the comment: "get a brain, moran."

He is talking about Jim Moran who blamed the pro-isreal lobby for getting us into iraq.

Yeah, Jim Moran is pretty brainless.

Sorry, dude, we misunderstood you as misspelling "moron." God, now i feel like a complete morAn.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402171.html

rcocean said...

Maroon?

Chip Ahoy said...

Look, B followed A, therefore, A caused B.

Here, let me enter that in my Logic-O-Meter. Yup. It's right here under Post Hoc, oops, sub titled, "Common Liberal Sophistry .

O'Reilly is the big bad bugbear of the Left. They are aware, clown that he is, difficult to listen to as he is, his ratings are off their charts. Apparently, that does mean something. They hate that, they hate him, therefore, he must be destroyed. Must. Be. Destroyed.

This instance of avert hatred is focused, but the hatred is also unfocused. You tend to see it everywhere, out of focus, and broadcast, and O'Reilly is not the only target. Two days ago Instapundit linked to Aldente. Aldente, to another site with a post on twisted bacon. That site, in turn, linked to yet another site called Bacon Magazine. On Bacon Magazine, following a post on the awesomeness of bacon, which you can expect, is another post unrelated to bacon titled "People I'd Like To Punch In The Face." Curious, that -- a post on punching people in the face situated on a site dedicated to bacon. This discontinuity and violent inappropriateness does mark the site, in my mind, as hosted by a body situated politically on the Left, dun'nit? I am interested now, let's see whom this writer wants to punch in the face for I must validate or adjust my theory on inappropriately expressed political acrimony ... Bill O'Reilley, Ann Coulter, and the writer really really really wants to punch Bush in the face over and over, along with a few more people politically situated on the Right. (pile-on commenters to the post want to punch Bush in the nuts) I thought to myself in that moment of reading this, "You want to punch a woman in the face?" And you think this is funny? Odd, though, the writer slipped. He/she left off Limbaugh, the other bugbear for the left they wish ill to outright and overtly and frequently and inappropriately. Incidentally, we're made aware of another similar story pulled from the Playboy site a few days later, yesterday. The very vocal and irrepressible vitriol you hear and see emanating like a fowl smell from the Left is not just on a television or on a radio show that you can turn off and away from, it's everywhere. It's in all of innocent places, it's like smearing poo on your own work because one can not help themself. As strange as a murder in church is, a shocking extreme, in a place understood as refuge, so too are Flickr accounts dedicated to neighborhood photographs a refuge of a sort and so an inappropriate place for political vituperation, as are food blogs, in my opinion, inappropriate places for hateful and violent political expression, as too are birthday parties, baby showers, afternoon teas, Christmas gatherings, Thanksgiving dinners, bar mitzvahs, funeral services, and weddings, but there you still do find it and in abundance as if all that is the new appropriate. I take it all as a modern and uncivil form of social fascism, this tendency to assume agreement and to insist on conformity in political thought, as if there is actual thought behind it all, and not just raw feeling.

I do tire of it, and I do turn away from it, but I'm tired of that too, and actually, there's hardly anything left to turn to. I fully expect some present day political acid to come leaping up anachronistically from the pages of a long-forgotten Egyptian text during a period of transliteration, my own very distant and private refuge, after all, even churches are not safe from raw emotional even extreme political expression.

mcg said...

What a maroon! Ha ha ha ha ha! What an ignoranimus!

Aaron said...

Btw, a lovely example of people not stirring up hatred of our troops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/technologynews/5417221/Guantanamo-the-Xbox-game.html

Rendition, the game! coming soon you will play a gitmo detainee killing everyone in your way.

But don't worry, you won't be technically killing any troops in the game, because they are relabeled as "mercenaries."

mmm, yeah.

NKVD said...

Rule one of the internet - when you post a spelling flame, such as "Aaron said...
> Get a brain, moran.

You know, calling a person a morOn is alot more effective when you spell the word correctly."

... you also include a typo. "Alot" is not a word.

AJ Lynch said...

Mcg:

Thanks that was hilarious. If you can't laugh with a Bugs Bunny guffaw, you are not alive.

Do you think that is where the "maroon" thing originated?

NKVD said...

hdhouse uses his own made up words - it is a marvel to read his work. Words such as "rabblerousing" or "Lupha". And the upper case "D" on doctor is another example of his inability to write standard English. Then he uses a lower case "a" in "america". We know you hate this country, and you continue to prove it in ways great and small.

Keep trying hd - you are a laugh riot.

Aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aaron said...

nkvd

Dang it, just as I was confessing I was going to make typos now and then, the typo fairy hits and kicks my ass. Here is what I meant to say:

I will be the first to admit it was a little cheap to hone in on X’s mispelling. But after several days of this mendacity, pretending the left doesn't stir up hate for our soldiers, seeing this guy deny what we all knew to be true and finishing it off by calling those who knew it to be true "morans," it was too good to resist.

And for the record, "alot" is proper slang. It’s as much of a word as rotfl or pwned. more so. But hey, I am dyslexic, so I am sure inevitably have made a typo, probably in this thread.

[A.W.: and indeed alot of them in this post. Sigh.]

Aaron said...

mcg

btw, one version of the "kill all juice" story i heard was that the guy spelled it wrong by accident, in a crude way of attempting to create plausible deniability. As in, you go up to him, and say, "death to all jews? Um, how nazi of you."

And he responds, "no, no i mean juice. i hate juice. not jews."

I don't know if that was true or not, but it is plausible in its sheer stupidity. I mean, let's face it, if you hate all jews, alot of the time you are pretty stupid to start with. So that kind of lame cover up, thinking you could fool someone with such subterfugue, is in character.

really, i am at a loss to figure out why people don't admit that there is some serious genocidal hatred toward jews these days. i mean, they had a show in palestinian TV called "pioneers of tomorrow" starring a giant bunny that "eat jews." You would think Jimmy Carter would at least respond to the threat of man eating rabbits! ;-)

But instead they excuse it away. When i point out that the president of iran has said he wants isreal to be wiped off the map, and is reaching for a nuclear eraser, i actually hear liberals say "he won't dare nuke isreal. that would be suicidal."

You know, because crazy muslims never attack when it is suicidal. *rolls eyes*

mariner said...

Abortion is the twenty-first-century slavery.

It's monstrous, but a large percentage of the population finds it perfectly acceptable.

One effect of advances in medical technology is to make increasingly untenable the argument that a fetus is just a clump of cells rather than a human life.

Aaron said...

btw, the wsj health blog has alot more details on the kook who killed Tiller.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/06/02/piecing-together-data-on-suspect-in-abortion-doctors-killing/

Is it wrong that i see irony in this part?

> Roeder was convicted in 1996 of criminal use of explosives after authorities discovered bomb-making equipment, a military rifle and a gas mask in his car trunk during a traffic stop, WSJ reports. The conviction was appealed and then reversed on grounds that evidence was seized during an illegal search, state records show.

Mmm, so basically, one set of liberal activist rulings gave Tiller his job (roe v. wade, etc.), and another set of liberal activist rulings (on the exclusionary rule), set his future killer free. Literally but for the exclusionary rule, Tiller might be alive today. And but for roe v. wade, Tiller himself might have been arrested years ago.

And its clearly pretty wrong to think this is funny:

> Morris Wilson, a past member of the Kansas Unorganized Citizens Militia who has since renounced his ties to the group, told the WSJ that Roeder had been a fellow member

"That's right, we are so opposed to any structure, that even the group we formed to oppose the government is unorganized!" Well, they are nothing, if not consistent.

El Presidente said...

Keep pointing at smoke, someday the Reichstag will be on fire.

Diamondhead said...

"That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries [sic]. They aren't in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them."

- Markos Moulitsas, showing conservatives the correct way to respond to the murder of people with whom you disagree.

Aaron said...

Mariner

Well, calling it like slavery is a bit extreme. The issue is like slavery in the sense that its hard to find any compromise position in general. But where it differs from slavery is that the immorality is not as much in your face as slavery was. The fetuses can’t scream, cry, beg for momma or anything like that which would make the monsterousness of the whole thing obvious. Slavery created such obvious misery that it took a serious mental trick to ignore the evil you were doing, or to rationalize it.

But on the subject of vigilantism, isn’t it a little false to say all vigilantism is wrong under all circumstances? Our declaration of independence says that where government abridges our rights too often, we are allowed to overthrow it. And of course our history is filled with rebellions and revolts we can sympathize with, whether it is Nat Turner’s rebellion, John Brown’s at harper’s ferry, or the less famous example at Christiana, PA, where free and possibly escaped blacks used force to avoid being dragged off in chains.

The reason why it was wrong to kill Tiller isn’t that all vigilantism is wrong, but it is wrong to leap so fast to it. Peaceful change might yet work. Indeed, recent polls suggest that the pro-life movement is gaining momentum. What we need, frankly, is a genius of protest along the lines of the great Martin Luther King, or at least a spokesman against abortion as wise and insightful as Lincoln was against slavery.

El Presidente

Not clear what you mean, but spare us the reighstag fire paranoia.

Diamondhead said...

Btw, I disagree with what the brains behind Daily Kos said. It's not the "correct" way to respond.

If the left is going to blame terrorism on US policies in the Middle East, I wonder if they'll blame George Tiller's death on his "policies." Was he a "little Eichmann?"

Jen said...

You have Bill O'Reilly and Fox News to thank for keeping moderates away from the Republican Party.

Keep endorsing strange spin and you'll keep the vote away.

Diamondhead said...

That's what they say in the fever swamps. Events kept moderates away from the GOP in 2004 - and events will drive them back. Events are what moderates (read: people who generally don't give a shit about politics) notice - not the spin on Fox.

El Presidente said...

Hey Aaron,

Read twice, think three times, type once.

Aaron said...

el presidente

if that is your way of saying you were being sarcastic, then my apologies of course, but bluntly, it is very hard to tell with just typed text.

J said...

What is all this talk about 'murder' and 'killing'?

Tiller was just a clump of cells after all.