October 24, 2008

Police say Ashley Todd has confessed to faking the story that an enraged black man carved a "B" for Barack into her face.

She will be charged for filing a fake report.
Police spokeswoman Diane Richard ... said Todd said on Friday she wasn't sure if it was a bumper sticker on her car or a campaign button on her jacket that angered the attacker. Richard said Todd added new details to the attack, saying at one point she lost consciousness.

"She also indicated she was sexually assaulted as well. She indicated that when he had her on the ground he put his hand up her blouse and started fondling her. But other than that, she says she doesn't remember anything else. So we're adding a sexual assault to this as well," Richard said.

Police said they gave a polygraph test to Todd, but they didn't release the results.
I'm glad this got cleared up so quickly, and I hope people learn a few lessons from this. As I said here and here, it always looked fake to me.

AND: Making the fake assailant black and then throwing in the sexual assault makes thing truly vile. 

207 comments:

1 – 200 of 207   Newer›   Newest»
Host with the Most said...

Yawwwwwwn

Crazies on both sides of the political speczzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Daniel said...

Just wanted to check in for a moment and comment on the idiocy of the Althouse right-wingers.

My comment is
ha ha ha ha ha ha!

See you after the election, chumps.

Daniel said...

Oh, one more thing: Simon gets the award for Biggest Chump.

vbspurs said...

Crazies on both sides of the political speczzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Not zzzzzzzzz. She could've caused an innocent man to go to gaol, for goodness sakes, Host.

If this is not one of the most egregious things an average person can do (as opposed to a hardened criminal, who can do worse), I don't know what is.

Throw the book at her. She deserves nothing less.

And Daniel, stop your preening unless you'd like to be reminded of "KILL HIM!!!" having been faked too. Idiot.

Cheers,
Victoria

Palladian said...

Oh fuck you, Daniel. A lot of "right-wingers" were skeptical of this story from the get-go. Take your smug, self-satisfied nonsense and shove it up your ass.

Hope to not see you after the election.

Anyway. See what happens when you swallow this hoax nonsense? You give douchebags like "Daniel" et al ammunition. Not that they really need adequate justification to behave like douche-bags.

Minzo said...

I could be wrong, but didnt someone gleefully use this story in one of the comment threads to attack the democrats yesterday or the day before? It was in an outraged tone of 'Look at the thugs who are typical of Obama' or something along those lines. Im a bit too lazy to look for it, but if anyone finds it I'd be delighted.

Daniel said...

Ha ha ha ha ha!

vbspurs said...

BTW, to the commenter over at my blog who asked if this would be an interesting idea for a Halloween costume, reverse B on cheek and all, and I said, whoa, maybe too soon:

GO FOR IT, DUDE!

Daniel said...

First, I'm a different Daniel.

Second, the worst part of this whole thing is a young white woman claiming to have been assaulted by "that black guy". It's very Duke Lax -- feeding on people's existing stereotypes.

Third, maybe we should pay less attention to Drudge. Can that start happening, please?

Doyle said...

I thought Daniel made a lot of good points, especially w/r/t Simon :-)

But yeah, way to dodge this particular bullet, Ann. Too bad you only get half credit since Malkin did too.

Dark Eden said...

Check back on the right wing blogs. They were skeptical from the beginning. It was just too perfect a story and the backward B was always very questionable.

This doesn't change the fact of a wave of violence across the country targeting Republicans/McCain supporters but whatever.

Shanna said...

Some people are such idiots. And stronger words I shouldn't use on this board.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Obama's locked up the votes of people who dub kung-fu movies for a living.

Palladian said...

"Ha ha ha ha ha!"

Enjoy the dipshit schadenfreude while it lasts, douche-bag, which should be for about 5 minutes or so.

Have you checked your beloved polls lately? Now's not the time for anyone on either side of this to be smug and self-satisfied.

AntonK said...

Daniel, one link is all that's needed. Do scroll down, please.

Daniel said...

"This doesn't change the fact of a wave of violence across the country targeting Republicans/McCain supporters but whatever."

Ho ho ho ho!

AJ Lynch said...

Is that simply fake? or Fake but accurate? Where was Dan Rather and Mary Mapes in the night in question?

Speaking of which Marla Maples is the best looking girl I have ever seen in person. What a gorgeous creature!

vbspurs said...

First, I'm a different Daniel.

We'll be the judge of that. Start laughing, and we'll see.

Daniel said...

Ah, the Angry Right. I suppose we'll have to get used to this.

I can vouch for the Other Daniel. He is not Me.

But hey, here's another good one: Drudge says the polls are tightening!

Minzo said...

""This doesn't change the fact of a wave of violence across the country targeting Republicans/McCain supporters but whatever."

Getting your excuses in early I see....

former law student said...

Second, the worst part of this whole thing is a young white woman claiming to have been assaulted by "that black guy".

Susan Smith syndrome. Blame everything bad that happens on an imaginary black man.

American Liberal Elite said...

This blog used to be enjoyable - pleasant, engaging, collegial, thought-provoking and a little offbeat. Now it seems to have turned into a food fight. Where are the commenters I used to appreciate, like Sippi, Ruthanne and Maxine and countless others? Sad.

vbspurs said...

Getting your excuses in early I see....

What excuses? It's been happening frequently all over America -- the molotov cocktail in the yard of the Oregon couple, the keyed and spraypainted cars all over Florida.

It happens to Obama supporters too.

Do you doubt them as well?

Palladian said...

You used to enjoy Maxine?? Sad.

Simon said...

When a woman says she's been attacked, my assumption - ceteris paribus, and absent good reason to think otherwise - will be that her story is true. That is not something for which I will apologize. The information available prior to her admission of making it up did not, in my view, rise to a level to rebut that assumption.

I am not saying that we should necessarily believe every sob story, but that we should proceed on the assumption that the allegations are true, lest insult be added to injury. I fear and reject - and my response yesterday and this morning was shaped by this view - the fostering of an environment where women who were attacked might fear to come forward because they will be subjected to a barrage of scorn and doubt.

There were two ways to treat this story: to assume, ab initio, that she was telling the truth until contrary evidence emerged, and behave accordingly, or the the opposite. If the former path had been taken, and the story later been falsified, quite obviously there would still be all the time in the world to criticize her. If the latter path had been taken and the story later determined to be true, it would be too late to undo the hurt and damage that the initial skepticism and scorn had done to the victim and to other victims who might rightly fear the same treatment. To my mind, the former was the better way to proceed.

I understand that some felt that all was not equal, and the evidence did suffice to rebut the presumption in this woman's favor. I disagreed then, and on review, disagree now. Better to risk no harm and be wrong than to risk great harm on the hope that one is right.

Doyle said...

Blame everything bad that happens on an imaginary black man.

It was the same one that caused the financial crisis.

peter hoh said...

Check back on some of the right wing blogs. They were skeptical from the beginning. It was just too perfect a story and the backward B was always very questionable.

Fixed it for you, Dark Eden. There were plenty of Right Wing blogs who bought it hook, line, and sinker. And many of them bent over backwards to explain the backwards B.

MadisonMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Simon said...

Dark Eden said...
"This doesn't change the fact of a wave of violence across the country targeting Republicans/McCain supporters but whatever."

Nor does it change the fact that when the story was "McCain volunteer says she was beaten up by Obama supporter," the mainstream media completely ignored it, and yet within minutes of the story changing to "McCain supporter made up story about being attacked by Obama supporter," the story is all over the media.

vbspurs said...

I am not saying that we should necessarily believe every sob story, but that we should proceed on the assumption that the allegations are true, lest insult be added to injury. I fear and reject - and my response yesterday and this morning was shaped by this view - the fostering of an environment where women who were attacked might fear to come forward because they will be subjected to a barrage of scorn and doubt.

Simon, this is an admirable trait, and one I know you would have towards any woman.

But when I heard last night that she had changed her story, and added sexual assault, I totally realised she was lying.

Of course, for some people, including people on this board, the first sign she was lying has to do with 'lookism'.

She's fat, people. A "slob".

People believe anything of those who are ugly and ungainly, especially of a "attention-seeking" nature. Heck, Bill Clinton was ready to railroad Monica Lewinsky as a psycho, if she hadn't kept that blue dress.

So now she adds to the stereotype, and since it's a stereotype based on a considerable lie on her part, I won't defend her at all.

MadisonMan said...

Simon, you need to become more cynical like me.

I am curious to learn why the B ended up backwards -- and if it's because she carved it while looking in a mirror, I'll suggest some good Agatha Christies that use the same device, in the books' case to precipitate the murderer's downfall.

jdeeripper said...

And yet Crystal whatever the black stripper/prostitute who racistly claimed several White members of the Duke lacrosse team raped her has yet to be charged with filing a false report or perjury.

And now she has come out with a book claiming she was raped and it's racists who doubt her.

Classical racial double standard in America.

There's always a White Devil to be blamed.

Palladian said...

Sigh. I see we're going with "Fake, But Accurate".

LarsPorsena said...

"Blame everything bad that happens on an imaginary black man.

It was the same one that caused the financial crisis."

No, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are definitely white guys.

Daryl said...

The only thing I learned from this episode is to be more confident in my reliance on my own biases and prejudices.

I was right about this hoax, even before it happened. More than 2 years ago, I said carving symbols onto oneself is a classic hallmark of a hoaxster.

In the future, I will be less hesitant to spout off about things I think I know.

integrity said...

Thank you Professor Althouse for your clear, skeptical, phlegmatic response to this insanity. You were right.

Gobama!!

Simon said...

Victoria:
"But when I heard last night that she had changed her story, and added sexual assault, I totally realised she was lying."

I didn't hear that until late this morning. Actually, I can be precise: I didn't hear about it until 12:34 PM (my coblogger Pat IM'd me, so I have a timestamp on it). If that information had been available to me last night or this morning, that might have sufficed to burst the bubble (although given how proximate it was to the flash that it had been admitted to be a hoax, it's hard to tell). But it wasn't.

Minzo said...

"What excuses? It's been happening frequently all over America -- the molotov cocktail in the yard of the Oregon couple, the keyed and spraypainted cars all over Florida.

It happens to Obama supporters too"

The poster I was reacting to was suggesting that any election violence was only being directed at Mccain's supporters which is why I said he/she was getting in their excuses early (i.e for when Mccain loses)Frankly I dislike both candidates, but if push comes to shove I'd vote for Obama.

vbspurs said...

Classical racial double standard in America.

There's always a White Devil to be blamed.


Jdeeripper, come on now. A black man would have been unfairly arrested, maybe imprisoned, as there have been for hundreds of years.

I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but there is a long ways to go before white people can claim to be en masse victims in Western societies.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that if you're white, you have no right to complain for unfairness, come on. But let's have a little historical perspective, yes?

jdeeripper said...

former law student said...Second, the worst part of this whole thing is a young white woman claiming to have been assaulted by "that black guy".

Susan Smith syndrome. Blame everything bad that happens on an imaginary black man.


Sadly in America we have all too many REAL black males who are perpetrating rape, robbery, muggings and murder at a horrific rate.

Interracial assaults by strangers are an overwhelmingly black on White phenomenon no matter how much America pretends not to know that.

It would be a much better country if these perpetrators were imaginary.

But as I commented at the beginning this case was obviously fake.

Chip Ahoy said...

Tips for future hoaxers:

1) Cut deeply. Draw blood. Scratches are unconvincing

2) Reverse lettering, Stupid.

3) Draw letters as if hacked. Do NOT carefully draw letters. There's no time for careful calligraphy during a mutilation.

4) Most importantly, don't be a campaign worker

5) Don't be goth. Self-mutilation is expected of goths.

6) Submit to medical examination when offered, or better yet, insist upon it.

7) Get friend and practice assault performance in view of surveillance camera.

8) Use tire iron to bash in area of car with bumper sticker.

9) Practice incoherent hysteria before entering police station and filing report.

chickenlittle said...

Madisonman wrote: I am curious to learn why the B ended up backwards

That reminded me of father (RIP), who could read entire news stories backwards. He was a printer in the olden days, back when writer's stories were first cast in leaden type before printing.

Meade said...

I for one will not be accepting these latest reports until Andrew Sullivan personally inspects the alleged false reporting young woman's womb.

vbspurs said...

More than 2 years ago, I said carving symbols onto oneself is a classic hallmark of a hoaxster.

I know a lot of ex-military men often have them (and I hope I'm not insulting anyone here), and they're also all the rage amongst the young of both sexes, but personally -- tattoos fall under that category for me, Daryl, I can't help but think that a person who gets a tattoo has issues.

I would never voluntarily mutilate my body in any way. I don't even have pierced ears...

Lem said...

And, really, don't comment to say I should be blogging about some other subject…

We can’t just change the subject.

Add prescient to Ann's many admirable qualities ;)

Tony said...

This story makes me sick. 50 years ago, there would have been a lynch mob looking for her "attacker." Ashley Todd, as long as Google exists, good luck getting a job.

AJ Lynch said...

Althouse forget blogging about this plump little Republican dunce.

Why not blog about what Marla Maples looks like today. Or at least about what Mary Mapes is doing these days.

Revenant said...

She could've caused an innocent man to go to gaol, for goodness sakes, Host.

Er -- who? Unless I missed something, the person she was accusing didn't actually exist.

chickenlittle said...

Damn I wish there was some type font that reflected the character "B" like what Я does for R.

Anybody?

vbspurs said...

Er -- who? Unless I missed something, the person she was accusing didn't actually exist.

Revenant, there was an alleged mugger who targeted others in the area -- who fit the description of her "attacker".

Imagine if said genuine mugger were picked up whilst committing another crime, and they slapped on this bogus charge on him.

I vaguely remember the Susan Smith case (I was in the UK during that), but I recall that they stopped black men who fit the description she gave authorities.

This is what is truly unconscionable to me. Lying doesn't just hurt you, it can hurt others.

vbspurs said...

Damn I wish there was some type font that reflected the character "B" like what Я does for R.

Anybody?


Kindergartners?

integrity said...

Revenant said...
She could've caused an innocent man to go to gaol, for goodness sakes, Host.

Er -- who? Unless I missed something, the person she was accusing didn't actually exist.



No, they would have tagged some innocent guy with the crime, vdspurs is correct. If I were black I would be so freaked out and pissed off about stuff like this.

1jpb said...

Nor does it change the fact that when the story was "McCain volunteer says she was beaten up by Obama supporter," the mainstream media completely ignored it, and yet within minutes of the story changing to "McCain supporter made up story about being attacked by Obama supporter," the story is all over the media.

Even the local media was skeptical early on. The only folks pushing this story where those who wanted for it to be true, even when the details didn't add up. It would have been unfair to the accuser for the media to present the story of her disjointed inconsistencies. But, that was the story. It's best for the media to give an accuser the benefit of the doubt, by holding off their reporting instead of presenting their reporting when their reporting indicates an accuser is a liar.

Now the details do add up: the story was a fake It's now reportable without fear of hurting a true victim.

Lem said...

I only followed the story for 8 minutes and made up my mind that Todd had been attacked for real.

Palladian said...

"He was a printer in the olden days, back when writer's stories were first cast in leaden type before printing."

Well depending on how long ago he worked, the stories had to be painstakingly set, backwards letter by backwards letter, backwards word by backwards word, in galleys to be run on the press. I've done quite a bit of typesetting and letterpress printing, it is odd how proficient you become in reversing things.

vbspurs said...

But it wasn't.

Simon, don't worry. I heard it on "Red Eye" with Greg Gutfeld. Andrew Breitbart (a guest and Drudge chum) made a funny joke about wearing the B upside, too.

Had I not powered down my computer, I would've updated this and my blog with the news.

Meade said...

So she made the whole thing up? Including the part about being a McCain campaign volunteer? You don't suppose she might even be an Obama supporter trying to pull a double switcheroo, do you? Could she be the one who at a McCain rally allegedly shouted "kill him" in regards to Obama?

Palladian said...

"If I were black I would be so freaked out and pissed off about stuff like this."

If I were black, I'd be even more freaked out and pissed off about how much actual violent crime is committed by other black males and how that leads stories like the one told by this pudgy little psychopath to sound at all believable.

Palladian said...

Maybe, ala Scooby Doo, some enterprising group of left crime-solvers riding around in their (Hybrid) Mystery Machine will pull Ashley Todd's face off to reveal...

Sarah Palin!

Dum dum DUM!

No wonder her makeup cost 20,000 dollars! Prosthetic faces are expensive!

vbspurs said...

You don't suppose she might even be an Obama supporter trying to pull a double switcheroo, do you?

Meade, be careful! People who don't have their irony-metre calibrated (not to mention who don't know your history) will exclaim:

"Look! The Rightwingers on Althouse are saying she was really an Obama supporter!

Ha Ha Ha."

No, really. There are idiots like this out there.

Beth said...

Simon, just as you start to settle down a bit, Meade takes over and even passes you up. I suppose that's one way to pace yourselves until Nov. 4.

Revenant said...

Second, the worst part of this whole thing is a young white woman claiming to have been assaulted by "that black guy".

For violent crimes and robberies where the criminal and victim are strangers to each other, the majority of perpetrators are black men. Add in the fact that blacks support Obama in greater numbers than they've supported any President since Abraham Lincoln and "an anonymous black male" was the obvious choice for the hoax.

Meade said...

If I were white I would've been really freaked out and pissed off over the Tawana Brawley hoax.

BJK said...

I never understood why anonymous black guy would have written a letter 'B,' when 'O' the initial that more typically symbolizes the politician.

Note to future would-be self mutilators: when given a choice, opt for the initial that's symmetrical!

Beth said...

She described an attacker as being black, male and 6'4". Anyone fitting that description might have been picked up and questioned.

Simon said...

vbspurs said...
"Imagine if said genuine mugger were picked up whilst committing another crime, and they slapped on this bogus charge on him."

Could she have picked him out of a line-up if they did?

The Pennsylvania Hate Crimes law doesn't cover politically-motivated attacks, although presumably aggravated battery would apply - but could they have built a beyond a reasonable doubt case against him?

vbspurs said...

No wonder her makeup cost 20,000 dollars! Prosthetic faces are expensive!

I have this secret desire to see Palin, who has the same balls-to-the-walls George S. Patton personality, go over to Ashley Todd's home, slap her and call her a freaking coward.

If she doesn't, I may. How is Pittsburgh at this time of the year?

Simon said...

Meade said...
"You don't suppose she might even be an Obama supporter trying to pull a double switcheroo, do you?"

No, I don't. That really is unbelievable.

Beth said...

vb - Nice of you to offer Meade that out, but he's not being ironic. He's been pushing that accusation for the past hour at least.

Revenant said...

Imagine if said genuine mugger were picked up whilst committing another crime, and they slapped on this bogus charge on him.

Considering that I think muggers ought to be killed, I can't say that I'd lose sleep over the thought of one being unfairly convicted of another crime.

jdeeripper said...

vbspurs said...Jdeeripper, come on now. A black man would have been unfairly arrested, maybe imprisoned, as there have been for hundreds of years.

That's a comforting myth for you I suppose but not a true statement.

The vast majority of black males in America who perpetrate interracial assault will never be caught, tried or convicted. And their place in prison will not be taken by an innocent black male.

There will be no "closure".

I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but there is a long ways to go before white people can claim to be en masse victims in Western societies.

Any truth acknowledging person can say that -

1. black on white assault is the predominant form of interracial violence in America.

2. most black male assailants will not go to prison for their crimes.

3. media focus on any black on White crime will be denounced as racist at the same time rare examples of White on black crime will be given priority attention and moral outrage.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that if you're white, you have no right to complain for unfairness, come on. But let's have a little historical perspective, yes?

How far back in historical perspective do you want to go? The hills and caves of Europe during the ice age, The Island of Patmos, Neanderthal man.......

My view is the White Devil narrative of Rev. Wright , Bill Ayers , the N.O.I. and the White academic left is more dominant than many want to acknowledge.

And the view of Barack Obama as a redeemer in that narrative is basic to this campaign. It aint all about the economy, stupid .

Again, I thought this "B" case was a hoax from the beginning and said so on this blog.

Beth said...

Malkin (OMG, can't believe I'm citing Malkin) links to a few other blogs who followed this, including one that found her cached MySpace page. Looks like she was a Ron Paul supporter before working for McCain's campaign. That at least is in line with the supposition of mental illness at work here.

Sorry, Paul supporters, but you're such an easy target.

vbspurs said...

Could she have picked him out of a line-up if they did?

As Beth said, Simon, she gave a description (which interestingly matched that of a real mugger in the area).

Imagine if the police had just run with it, and started rounding up black guys who fit that description?

Sure, she would've gone through the "picking out of a lineup" routine, but just imagine the humiliation those men would've gone through?

The Pennsylvania Hate Crimes law doesn't cover politically-motivated attacks, although presumably aggravated battery would apply - but could they have built a beyond a reasonable doubt case against him?

That's another, thing, my darling.

I think if Obama becomes president, this is precisely the kind of "motivation" he and his compliant congress would need to get a law on the books covering this kind of "political" aggression.

So on top of that, I blame her for giving them an opening. Stupid person.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Have you checked your beloved polls lately? Now's not the time for anyone on either side of this to be smug and self-satisfied.

Yes, by all means, check out those polls!

Just so I'm clear, you're voting for McCain, right Palladian?

Tony said...

Palladin,
You wrote: "If I were black, I'd be even more freaked out and pissed off about how much actual violent crime is committed by other black males and how that leads stories like the one told by this pudgy little psychopath to sound at all believable"

Well I am black, and the only people I know that found this story believable were those that wanted to see Obama fail. Honestly, her story could not have sounded been more bogus.

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. The country has come a long way. In my grandmother's time, there would have been a posse searching for her attacker, or more likely, any black man that fit the description.

Question for my fellow lawyers, if you make up a hate crime in order to incite racial violence, is it a hate crime? Does this question demonstrate the inherent difficulty of deciding when one is motivated by race as opposed to say politics, religion or any other discriminatory animus?

Meade said...

It's not an accusation, Beth. It's a legitimate question. The answer could be "no." Maybe we'll find out. Did we ever find out the truth about the person who shouted "kill him" at the McCain rally?

vbspurs said...

1. black on white assault is the predominant form of interracial violence in America.

Jdeeripper, you're talking to one such person. Look, I don't want to go into it (I once described it in passing on my blog), but I was held up at gun-point by two black males.

I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and actually I actually blame myself a lot for what happened.

But that doesn't mean one has to use this as a fact to make such a blanket statement of "White Devil".

I respect you, you know that. But this gal is wrong, and it shows a pattern of women like her inventing things about "black men".

Bob said...

vbspurs - If Obama wins I suspect a rather large part of white america is going to say "its now been reset to zero". That his election demonstrates that blacks can no longer claim they are disenfranchised. That's my attitude. One hopes it may actually cause us to acknowledge that racism is not a uniquely white stain. All races have their bigits. If you want to say white women falsely accuse black men then you must also acknowledge black women seem just as capable of falsely accusing white men. Or that jury nullification works for blacks as whites. That doesn't seem to be real progress. Sadly, this election has done nothing to bridge the races. We end this much more race conscious, and outwardly so.

Triangle Man said...

Could she have picked him out of a line-up if they did?

Do you mean a properly conducted line-up with appropriate uninvolved fillers, or a Durham line-up?

Ann Althouse said...

Simon said..."I am not saying that we should necessarily believe every sob story, but that we should proceed on the assumption that the allegations are true, lest insult be added to injury."

Who are "we"? The police should take reports seriously, but that doesn't mean assuming they are true. It means they should do their investigative work diligently.

As for the rest of us, we don't have to become involved at all. What was the reason to pump this story up before it checked out? I think it was a desire to fit a piece into a pattern you always had and that seemed instrumental toward a political goal.

"I fear and reject - and my response yesterday and this morning was shaped by this view - the fostering of an environment where women who were attacked might fear to come forward because they will be subjected to a barrage of scorn and doubt."

To me, that argues in favor of leaving it alone until it checks out. I only wrote about this story after other blogs started promoting it. This idea of believing women -- which got started in an era when too many real rape accusations were rejected -- should not become a leap of faith. Look critically at the evidence. The best version of feminism treats women as human beings, and human beings are capable of lying and doing vicious things. Don't be a chump.

"... I understand that some felt that all was not equal, and the evidence did suffice to rebut the presumption in this woman's favor. I disagreed then, and on review, disagree now. Better to risk no harm and be wrong than to risk great harm on the hope that one is right."

But there was harm done spreading this story around. And now that it's famous, the idea that women lie has more traction than it did before.

vbspurs said...

As Beth said, Simon, she gave a description (which interestingly matched that of a real mugger in the area).

BTW, I have been wondering about this all night long.

1) Who gave her that shiner?
2) Did she know to make her description fit a suspected mugger in an area she was unfamiliar with?

In fact, I think she had an accomplice, since as Ace said last night, just thinking of putting a doorknob to your eye is unthinkable.

Who punched her?

Was it the friend who lives in the area, who PERHAPS ALSO told her about the neighbourhood rumours of that mugger?

jdeeripper said...

Althouse - AND: Making the fake assailant black and then throwing in the sexual assault makes thing truly vile.

No, that just makes it the most likely real world scenario. If you're going to lie make it the most plausible lie possible.

What is "vile" is the outrageous rates of black on White violence in America and America's pathological fear and denial about the issue.

LonewackoDotCom said...

I continue to be amazed at how stupid some people are. Apparently they're missing the part of their brain that says, "this isn't going to work out as expected".

If anyone wants an honorable, First Amendment-approved way to defeat BHO, help me push this plan. What I need are major bloggers - including those listed at that page - to help me push that forward. If hundreds of thousands of people were urged to go out and ask BHO a tough question, a few might be able to do it. And, if it's a good question he won't know how to respond and the video of his response is going to get millions of views. All completely above board and consistent with our fundamental principles.

Please write those listed and ask them why they aren't pushing that plan.

Triangle Man said...

vbspurs said...

Who punched her?



The first rule of Fight Club is...

Revenant said...

Imagine if the police had just run with it, and started rounding up black guys who fit that description?

First of all, the police cannot just "start rounding up black guys". This is not the 1950s.

Secondly, you're asking us to "imagine" a situation which would only happen in an alternate reality in which the police department in question was hopelessly gullible. It wasn't. Most of us were immediately suspicious of this story, and the police quite obviously were as well. If they had "started rounding up black guys" based on this story they'd have been sued to within an inch of their lives and members of the department would have had to resign in disgrace.

Take the phony press report of people at a McCain rally yelling for Obama to be killed. As odious as that phony report was, my saying "innocent people could have been arrested for threatening to kill a Presidential candidate" is not a legitimate objection. Yes, it is hypothetically possible, but it wasn't likely and those responsible for taking such action would ultimately have suffered for it.

Meade said...

And if my name was Steven Pagones I would REALLY be freaked out and pissed off over the Tawana Brawley hoax.

vbspurs said...

Sadly, this election has done nothing to bridge the races. We end this much more race conscious, and outwardly so.

Bob, I hear you.

IMHO, this race was never about bridging any tensions with the races. On the extreme black side, it's for historical revenge. I count the extreme black side to include Farrakhan, Wright, and many of that ilk.

To them, they wish to put an end to "White Supremacy". This attitude has filtered down surprisingly to even moderate, intelligent people of BOTH races.

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I speak to college-educated black people (two of which happen to be my close friends), there is a rage there that is barely fathomable and I have never seen it in MY white counterpart friends towards them. I would understand it if they were poor, lived in bad areas, but by and large, they share my lifestyle.

They remind me of the Russian intelligentsia in the 1800s. It wasn't the peasants that agitated. They were led by the university-educated bourgeoisie.

Like Obama.

The objective is to overturn, overhaul, and sometimes, annihilate -- not to bridge any resentments.

Cheers,
Victoria

integrity said...

jdeeripper said...
Althouse - AND: Making the fake assailant black and then throwing in the sexual assault makes thing truly vile.

No, that just makes it the most likely real world scenario. If you're going to lie make it the most plausible lie possible.

What is "vile" is the outrageous rates of black on White violence in America and America's pathological fear and denial about the issue.

3:10 PM



Ya know, I have lived in the city of Los Angeles since 1992. I go everywhere in the city, including south central, and have never been the victim of black on white crime. The over the top paranoia regarding people of color needs to be rethought, on your part. You must listen to and read a lot of right-wing paranoid nutjob material. Get over it.

Beth said...

The best version of feminism treats women as human beings, and human beings are capable of lying and doing vicious things.

Amen.

I understand where you're coming from, Simon, but unless I have reason to believe the police involved have a poor record of investigating sexual or other assaults, then I take the position that one must let the investigation proceed before taking up a person's claim as a cause.

vbspurs said...

Heh, Triangle Man.

Will the next hoaxster claim it wasn't a carve, but a CHOKE?

vbspurs said...

Revenant wrote:

Yes, it is hypothetically possible, but it wasn't likely and those responsible for taking such action would ultimately have suffered for it.

In Pittsburgh. But how about (and I say this with respect because I live down here), in other areas of the US?

You know what I mean...

Beth said...

vb, I wonder if there is an accomplice, or if that shiner is a makeup job. It's not a police photo. Her eye's not bloodshot, there doesn't appear to be any swelling. I've banged my eye on a door before, and yes, I've been punched there, too. It looked uglier than what I see in that photo.

Again, in addition to legal remedies, which are called for, I hope this young woman received counseling. She's clearly got emotional issues, and will continue to suffer for them, and cause suffering for other people, if she doesn't address her problems.

This is as sad as it is infuriating.

sonicfrog said...

Sometimes, there is no consolation for being right. I hope she gets the help she needs.

madawaskan said...

Well the right wing blogs that I looked at-

Little Green Footballs, Instapundit who linked to skepticism from Michelle Malkin and I think the Captain, and Wizbang-all had comment sections which were trying to invoke the 48 hour rule or were being skeptical.

Ann Althouse I think your point was-that they shouldn't go with it-a form of censorship or what?

Lack of trust in the American public-that they couldn't handle the story?

That somehow they'd be whipped up into a racist rage over this?

Go take a look at those threads-they are about the only "right-wing" blogs that have survived -the comments in the total wouldn't support what ever your fears were about this story being "pushed".

On top of that-no major media outlets were pumping it.

Simon said...

Ann Althouse said...
"As for the rest of us, we don't have to become involved at all."

Fair to say, and if "we" don't get involved at all - if nothing is said - that is one way to proceed consistent with not assuming that what comes as a victim is in fact the perpetrator. But if something is going to be said, better to be consistent with what I said, in my own view.


"I think it was a desire to fit a piece into a pattern you always had and that seemed instrumental toward a political goal."

No, yes and no. To change the order slightly: yes, it certainly fit into a pattern, and I said as much. The pattern was part of what lent the story credibility. If this had been a story about a supporter of Evan Bayh duffing up a supporter of Dick Lugar (two of the blandest men in the Senate, about who no one has ever gotten remotely exercised), and had there never been attacks on McCain supporters and their property by Obama supporters, this probably wouldn't have resonated. There was a reason why Russia's argument that they attacked Georgia only because they were provoked met deafening skepticism: a pattern into which that piece fit. But did I want it to fit, or have a goal in mind? No.


"Look critically at the evidence."

I did. I just disagreed with your conclusions.


"The best version of feminism treats women as human beings, and human beings are capable of lying and doing vicious things. Don't be a chump."

Ann, I have been a chump before, I was a chump these last twenty four hours, and from time to time, I will surely be a chump again. But I have always been a chump in good faith.

jdeeripper said...

vbspurs said...1. black on white assault is the predominant form of interracial violence in America.

Jdeeripper, you're talking to one such person. Look, I don't want to go into it (I once described it in passing on my blog), but I was held up at gun-point by two black males.

I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and actually I actually blame myself a lot for what happened.


You BLAME YOURSELF!!! "A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged".

Why don't you just blame the British for enlarging the Iberian/Afro/American slave trade and bringing black slaves to the New World?

Black on White mugging as a form of slave reparations.

But that doesn't mean one has to use this as a fact to make such a blanket statement of "White Devil".

I think you missed my larger point.

I respect you, you know that. But this gal is wrong, and it shows a pattern of women like her inventing things about "black men".

No it doesn't. This case doesn't show a "pattern", this case is an "example".

It could be interpreted as an example that fits into a larger pattern including, now that it has been exposed as a hoax, an example in a pattern of attempts to EVADE the reality of black on White crime and to pretend the world would be a perfect place if only we could eliminate White racist lies and evil in all it's forms.

This hoax is trivial. The reality of black on White violent crime is not. The problem is NOT the stereotype of the black male criminal. The problem is the REALITY of the black male criminal.

But I don't expect many people to come to terms with this considering most people apparently think the "Willie Horton AD" was worse than the Willie Horton REALITY it represented.

And again, I said I thought she was lying from the beginning and said so on this blog.

Simon said...

Errata: about whom no one has ever gotten remotely exercised. Apologies.

AJ Lynch said...

I think I said this already. The major media outlets did not report the original claim but will loudly trumpet the hoax.

Palladian said...

"If she doesn't, I may. How is Pittsburgh at this time of the year?"

Rotten. Of course, it's rotten any time of the year.

vbspurs said...

vb, I wonder if there is an accomplice, or if that shiner is a makeup job. It's not a police photo

No, but if she showed up at the police station with a makeup job, they wouldn't even have taken her story down to file charges.

During Med School, I saw a couple of guys come in from fighting. I would say the wounds were consistent with her shiner, but there was more blunt trauma to eyesocket area. It all depends what kind of punch, but yes, they were usually bloodshot.

The mouse was a red flag, but I think what is really really troubling is that if she had been a little more "intelligent" she would've left off that reverse-B. Then I bet you people would've believed her more, including me...

I mean, this could've been a really devious, well-thought out plan, which done right, would've had legs.

It's unforgiveable what she's done, because she not only takes away her own credibility, but that of others should anything like this happen for real.

Trooper York said...

People in Pittsburgh are generally deluded with a very loose grip on reality.

Witness the fact that they think they have a chance this Sunday.

dualdiagnosis said...

More sociopathic partisans losing their minds-


Death Threats Sent to Pollster

After releasing this morning’s numbers showing McCain ahead in Ohio and Florida, the Strategic Vision polling company received several death threats through the contact e-mail on the company’s web site.

David Johnson, the CEO of Strategic Vision, shared the messages with National Review Online.

One of the messages stated:

My goodness, your polls stinks. There are 3 polls that have Obama by double digits and only yours has Obama down. WOW!. How come your poll is the only one giving Palin high favor ratings? I think you nee dto be careful tonight when you get in your car and might want to check underneath your car. SCRAP YOUR IDIOTIC POLLS OR ELSE!

Another stated:

A poll that gave Sarah Palin and Barack Obama the same favorability rating is wrong off the bat. Be careful going outside tonight because you might not see tomorrow.

A third message stated:

Why would your presidential election poll results be so drastically different from every other reputable poll taken over the same time period? Are they that dumb or are you guys that smart? Smart guys wind up dead.

Meade said...

"Witness the fact that they think they have a chance this Sunday"

Wow. And Pittsburgh isn't even IN the World Series.

TosaGuy said...

West Bend has its own version of faking race/political harrassment. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=808678

vbspurs said...

You BLAME YOURSELF!!! "A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged".

Except I was a conservative since I was 3 years old. :)

Seriously though, maybe it's the British thing, but I don't look at people as representatives of their race, with all that historical baggage.

Two guys who just happened to be black jumped me when I was filling up at 10 PM in a black area of town. I did everything I wasn't supposed to, including parking at the farthest pump with no lights around.

When it was happening, I had a strange, almost otherwordly calm about me. I remember being sorry for the younger of the two who was maybe 16, who didn't cover his face with a scarf, like the older guy. I thought as he jammed his gun to my ribs that he was being introduced into crime, possibly even hazed.

The thing is, in Britain, this might've happened with two white guys mugging me. I wasn't raised to be scared of people's skin colours -- just their actions.

Ack, I'm not sure I am expressing myself well, so I'll demurr for the moment, and go dine.

Cheers,
Victoria

Bob said...

Ann, the days when criminal investigations are conducted in calm and deliberate manners are a thing of the past (if that existed). There is a 24x7 news media which demands feeding. It is a ravenous beast which shapes as well as reports. The Duke lacrosse case is a prime example. Interested parties, be they legal or political or advocates of whatever stripe, fed the beast fact and speculation to shape the discussion. In this case political and racial themes came to the fore.

Trooper York said...

I do want to state now, that if Ben Roethlisberger is found unconcious with the imprint of Justin Tucks size 14 cleat on his face, it is not technically a hate crime. If fact it will not even be considered roughing the passer.

jdeeripper said...

integrity said...Ya know, I have lived in the city of Los Angeles since 1992. I go everywhere in the city, including south central, and have never been the victim of black on white crime.

Your comment is an example of Solipsism . Among other things.

The over the top paranoia regarding people of color needs to be rethought, on your part.

I made no comment about "people of color". No such group exists. I was referring to BLACK males as a demographic.

I have lived in black urban America my entire adult life and have never been assaulted by anyone.

But that's MY life. I don't use it to represent the larger social reality. And you shouldn't use your life that way either.

You must listen to and read a lot of right-wing paranoid nutjob material. Get over it.

I mostly just glance and Simon's posts and move on.

Kirby Olson said...

I knew, too.

I blogged on the same topic.

The B was too well-formatted, and the impression was too light. A sociopathic mugger in a rage would have cut her to the bone, and done a lot more damage.

What she did was just sick.

I wonder if you law people could say what kinds of penalties are suggested in cases like this where the basic crime is bearing false witness against your neighbor.

Would a year in prison be too large?

What did Tawana Brawley get?

I think she should face a prison sentence of at least 30 days, and it should be permanently on her record as a felony.

But will that happen?

Kirby Olson said...

What did the lying stripper in the Duke lacrosse case get?

jdeeripper said...

vbspurs said...Except I was a conservative since I was 3 years old. :)

That sounds like the comment gays sometimes make when asked when they realized they were homosexual.

Kirby Olson said...What did Tawana Brawley get?

Status in the black community as a racial martyr. A noble African princess humiliated by the White racist, Eurocentric, capitalist system of White supremacy.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ron st.amant said...

what a sad and pathetic little girl...she clearly needs some help.

TitusonlyTops said...

I have a nice story that coincides with this incident.

One time I did a black guy that had a "branded tattoo of an upside down horseshoe" on this bicep.

The tattoo was raised, or burned into his skin directly on his big bicep.

I can vouche that feeling that branding while he was blowing me was exciting and allowed my chizz to flow out quicker than if he didn't have it.

Moral of the story is that perhaps this lovely lady will turn potential sex partners on because while doing it they can feel the "B".

While I was doing the black guy I also fantasized that he got the branding while he was in the slammer so that may have added to the easy ejaculation.

I, though, wasn't sure if he was actually in prison though because we didn't speak to each other.

Trooper York said...

Former New York Knickerbocker head coach and President Isaiah Thomas was rushed to a White Plains hospital after an overdose of sleeping pills today.

The incident is being investigated as a hate crime.

The pills were in fact white.

vbspurs said...

That sounds like the comment gays sometimes make when asked when they realized they were homosexual.

Oops, sorry, I was "4 almost 5". I wrote about the moment I discovered I was a conservative once.

The Way I Am

Your comment reminds me of David Zucker ("Airplane!", "American Carol") approaching his fellow Hollywood conservatives with "code words" to chivvy them out.

He didn't specify, but I'm guessing something like:

"Rush said yesterday"
"Oh yeah...I heard about that"

;)

Trooper York said...

When questioned as to why he took so many pills, Coach Thomas said
“I don’t have the Knick’s offense to put me to sleep anymore. That fucking wop is making them run and gun. They can score those bastards. Who knew?”

TitusonlyTops said...

Happy Friday fellow republicans and lovers of the Bush Doctrine.

How is everyone today?

Let the weekend begin.

TitusonlyTops said...

I love the directive in the "leave a comment introduction"

I promise not to be boring and comment on what you should be blogging on about.

The directive is so forceful...it makes me kind of hard.

I promise not to be bored teacher. And if I am you can punish me. And if you punish me I promise not to tell my mommy or daddy. It will be our special little secret teacher.

Tony said...

Jdeeripper,
Your contempt for blacks is quite obvious. Although, I prefer folks like you that don't try to hide it. It's always better to know where you stand.

Perhaps one day we'll be on opposing sides in the courtroom. You seem like you would be a lively debater.

integrity said...

jdeeripper said...
integrity said...Ya know, I have lived in the city of Los Angeles since 1992. I go everywhere in the city, including south central, and have never been the victim of black on white crime.

Your comment is an example of Solipsism . Among other things.

The over the top paranoia regarding people of color needs to be rethought, on your part.

I made no comment about "people of color". No such group exists. I was referring to BLACK males as a demographic.

I have lived in black urban America my entire adult life and have never been assaulted by anyone.

But that's MY life. I don't use it to represent the larger social reality. And you shouldn't use your life that way either.

You must listen to and read a lot of right-wing paranoid nutjob material. Get over it.

I mostly just glance and Simon's posts and move on.




Funny how you have never been victimized by a black male, but are very eager to pound statistics down everyone's throats as proof of the black male's danger to society as a demo group.

Do you think if black people were in power that the statistics and rates of arrest would look a little bit different?

If you think that coming from a mostly right-wing family that is spread over several states(in areas suburban, urban, and rural), that I can't base my opinion on their and my own personal experience than you are wrong. None of us have been victims of crimes perpetrated by black males. This is what my P.O.V. will be based on. It will never be based on stats coming from either a black or white power structure, ever. Kind of like political polling-fun for conversation and to try to figure out what may happen, but all bullshit at the end of the day as every polling outlet and network has an agenda. And the agenda is rarely left or right, but usually about profits(making sure there is a horserace to keep viewers and readers tuned in).

I'm gonna keep on questioning everything and basing my P.O.V. on the experiences of myself and those around me. The stats can be rammed as far as I am concerned.

The manner in which you cite these stats makes one think that you had been victimized by a black male. Disturbing.

TitusonlyTops said...

The only problem with doing it with someone who has been branded is that the next time you do someone you hope and expect they too have been branded and when they are not it is a little disappointing and I can get a softie.

I hate getting softies.

Chip Ahoy said...

What? 120 comments and no Lindsay Lohan reference?

We're slipping.

TitusonlyTops said...

I am not a racist but sometimes when I have sex with black men I like to use the "n word".

I am safe though as Chris Rock said that whites can say they n word when having sex with blacks.

Alex said...

This is how "liberal logic" works.

* This woman is obviously insane.
* She is is against Obama.
* Most conservatives are against Obama
* Therefore, conservatives are insane.

You see how easy it is?

TitusonlyTops said...

This just in Ashley Todd has been hired as an investigative reporter at Fox News.

Meade said...

Kirby Olson said...
"What did Tawana Brawley get?"

She got to convert to Islam. She's Maryam Muhammad now.

She was also able to get quite a few people to believe her story. Many still do.

TitusonlyTops said...

I am packing my Gucci weekend bag for my fall weekend in the Berkshires.

The rare clumbers both have the cutest little orange bandanas around their necks.

The packing will consist of cute sweaters, wool socks and jeans.

integrity said...

TitusonlyTops said...
This just in Ashley Todd has been hired as an investigative reporter at Fox News.



Thank you, LMAO. I'm outta here for the weekend soon. Use a condom if you insist on doing ass sex. I'd love to lecture you about sleeping around and it's dangers, ahh fuck it, have a great weekend.

TitusonlyTops said...

Right now I am trying to figure out what my name would be if I converted to Islam?

Probably Oshomo gonna dia.

I wouldn't want to be a muslim but I do enjoy doing them.

The religious guilt, the downlow aspect of it all, all the praying away the sin-very exotic and exciting and forbidden. I like that.

What I don't care for is doing it with a white midwestern like myself.

Alex said...

Victoria - these people you talk about lean more towards the "lets annihilate them" then towards anything else. Just listen to the eliminationist rhetoric from Farrakhan and Wright.

jdeeripper said...

integrity said...Funny how you have never been victimized by a black male, but are very eager to pound statistics down everyone's throats as proof of the black male's danger to society as a demo group.

Not funny, just rational.

You obviously are very disturbed by these facts. I understand that. You are like a large section of America that would just rather not know.

Tony said...Jdeeripper,Your contempt for blacks is quite obvious. Although, I prefer folks like you that don't try to hide it. It's always better to know where you stand.

Your anxiety and defensiveness as a black male in America is predictable and understandable. But we disagree.

Perhaps one day we'll be on opposing sides in the courtroom. You seem like you would be a lively debater.

The only time anyone is likely to get me into a courtroom is as a defendant. Maybe then I'll be a lively debater with the DA from the witness stand.

If you think my "contempt for blacks is obvious" you ought to see my contempt for the legal profession.

Blacks I can deal with, lawyers....NEVER!

Freeman Hunt said...

I thought the story was a fake from the beginning, and I was happy to see that none of the conservative bloggers I read were taken in by it. I was even pretty proud of the comment threads I saw. Sure, some people believed it, but a great number of people were rightly skeptical, and it was a rare person who tried to claim that the "attack" reflected on Obama. The same was also the case on this blog.

So, kudos, people.

TitusonlyTops said...

I always wear a condom.

The only awful part is when you pull the thing out of the ass and it is loaded with shit and the entire bedroom smells like an outhouse.

I am not a scat queen-not into shit.

An occassional tinkle tinkle on each other is fine though-if it is in a shower-not in the bed.

Alex said...

Looking at how Ashley Todd looks like, it's was 100% obvious fake.

TitusonlyTops said...

I have a weird friend who keeps all of his used condoms and actually puts the date on them when he used it.

He has like an used condom drawer.

TitusonlyTops said...

I am probably a dinge queen though.

Not exclusive dinge but have a liking for it.

Freeman Hunt said...

Did this whole fiasco remind anyone of the much more minor Ramona Dixon thing? She was an obvious fake too, and a ton of people believed that.

Meade said...

"What I don't care for is doing it with a white midwestern like myself."

What makes you think you're white?

Alex said...

It matters not that Malkin and many conservative bloggers called HOAX on this. The libs are still calling for the Fairness Doctrine to be instituted and shut down all conservative blogs.

Bob said...

My thought now, after the verification is was a hoax, is how will it be before someone makes a movie or writes a book? On second thought, so just who will be suing whom out of this?

TitusonlyTops said...

On Friday I miss Friday Fish Fry's. No Friday Fish Frys here. In Wisconsin the options are endless for Friday Fish Frys.


Althouse, you should put up the Opie/Richie Cunningham/Fonz/Andy Griffin youtube regarding voting. It is funny.

Opie (ron howard today) has a fishing "rod" and is talking to Andy about voting. The whistling is in the background. It's cute.

That was my tip. I didn't email it to your personal site, sorry. Too lazy.

Cedarford said...

Vbspurs - Revenant, there was an alleged mugger who targeted others in the area -- who fit the description of her "attacker".

Imagine if said genuine mugger were picked up whilst committing another crime, and they slapped on this bogus charge on him.


Aww geee, Vbspurs, my heart would bleed rivers if the black thug doing real assaults on whites had also had a fake charge slapped on him by a porty psycho Republican.

The way the system works, career criminals get away with over 90% of their crimes, get caught 10%, and sometimes have specious charges slapped on them just for good measure.

Call it a risk of the thug lifestyle choice.

It's like trying to muster sympathy for a serial killer who is happy he got away "clean" with seven rape-murders he did, their well buried corpses still listed as "missing persons", a little ticked that he got nailed and convicted with the nine whore-bitches he also killed, and who tells you he is really, really upset that he was convicted of killing a 10th skank. Which, he assures you, is a conviction based on a false accusation, one he was fully innocent of.

What do you say? "Awwww...you poor, set-upon man!"

**********************
aj lynch - Speaking of which Marla Maples is the best looking girl I have ever seen in person. What a gorgeous creature!

Rumor has it Mapes has been turning "high-end" tricks since her media career collapsed, AJ. Assuming you are willing to pay for it, and pay dearly, you missed your opportunity.
*******************
Tony - Question for my fellow lawyers, if you make up a hate crime in order to incite racial violence, is it a hate crime?

Evidently not when the false accuser is a black 'ho like Tawana Brawley or Crystal Gayle Mangum. Neither was charged with a hate crime, or anything else, for that matter.
Nor the incomptetent black professor at Columbia, accused of plagarism, hanging a noose on her door and accusing a female Indian professor of "hate speech" - not charged when she was caught lying out of her ignorant mouth.
Since Ashley Todd is a "typical" dumb white bitch, there actually might be legal consequences. She might actually be charged.

***********************
Vbspurs - but I think what is really really troubling is that if she had been a little more "intelligent" she would've left off that reverse-B. Then I bet you people would've believed her more, including me...

Except if she hadn't claimed the black thug "CARVED HER FACE" and linked it to Obama - she would have ruined the whole basis of her hoax. Publicity. If was just another black thug mugging a vulnerable white or Asian gal - it would be too common a crime to report as a big story, or report at all(Years back, one of my workers, a middle-aged white lady was beaten down by 3 male and one female homeless black thugs. Called "white bitch" and "White MF'r" several times, kicked, and robbed. Didn't even make the paper. Cops weren't too concerned either, since the woman wasn't hospitalized. They showed her some pics and closed the incident a week later as "likely transients passing through, minor mugging and battery, robbery under 100 dollars")

TitusonlyTops said...

I am not white? I thought I was white. I look pretty white.

Are We Not Men?

Freeman Hunt said...

but I think what is really really troubling is that if she had been a little more "intelligent" she would've left off that reverse-B. Then I bet you people would've believed her more, including me...

No, still wouldn't have believed her. Light scratches are the work of a female liar who, like pretty much any woman, is NOT going to scar up her own face. Light scratches are not the work of an enraged criminal who robs people at knife point.

Shanna said...

1. black on white assault is the predominant form of interracial violence in America.

Jdeeripper, you're talking to one such person.


I wasn’t assaulted, but I did have someone try to break into my house when I was home alone, until he saw my gigantic dog and ran away. He was a black male.

It’s unfortunate for all of us that this is the place people go when they want to make up a story. And as Ann says, it helps to perpetuate the “women lie” bit, which hurts all of us. So, lock her up, I say!

Freeman Hunt said...

What about the sensational press who used words like "carved" and "mutilated?" That was just absurd. Even if the whole thing had been real, those pink scratches would not justify those word choices.

bleeper said...

Kirby Olson said...
What did the lying stripper in the Duke lacrosse case get?

A college degree (clearly, not an education) and a book deal. And one more mouth for the taxpayers to feed. And 12 DNA samples in her and on her. And a wig to cover her braids and blue contacts. Am I missing anything? Oh, right, the eternal admiration of the black community in Durham. She is a hero. "Something happened" they say. What else might she ever need?

Alex said...

freeman - you're already behind the curve. The latest meme is "conservatives perpetrated a vile hoax on minorities". It's all over every single liberal blog like that.

Eli Blake said...

It seems that some on the right are going nuts about the possibility of the total control of government by liberals.

Guess what? Politics is cyclical. Eight years ago I was unhappy with the same prospect regarding conservatives, maybe even more so because I believed that the President who was taking office was not the one who was elected by the people.

But you know what? I survived. So did the country, though IMO much damaged by the incompetence and mismanagement we've seen over the past eight years.

And Obama, should he win, will have to deliver. He will have to fix the economy, get us out of Iraq and not into any other unnecessary wars, improve access to affordable health care, make progress towards energy independence and renewable energy and get people feeling that their lives and prospects are better than today. If he does then he will likely get another four years to finish his plans. If not then you might be able to make a case for trying something different (plus if he doesn't have a successful first term then he might also face another primary challenge from you-know-who.)

In the next twenty years, I have only one prediction to make. There will be another Democrat and another Republican elected President (besides Obama or McCain if McCain figures out a way of the checkmated political map Obama's campaign is weaving around him.) It's the nature of our political system.

I suspect that if McCain loses then conservatives will say he lost because he wasn't a conservative, moderates will say he lost because he tilted too far to the right, neo-cons, cultural conservatives and economic conservatives will all blame each other, and once the smoke clears then someone will ask why Republicans are Republicans and they will have to answer that and when they do they will emerge stronger from it.

Meade said...

Jill King Greenwood / PittsburghLIVE.com:
Police say McCain worker made up attack story20 minutes ago
+Discussion: Sadly, No!
Joe Mandak / Associated Press:
Police: McCain volunteer made up robbery story20 minutes ago
Discussion: The New Republic
Associated Press: Police: McCain volunteer changes ATM attack story
Fox News: McCain Campaign Volunteer Admits Alleged Attack Was a Hoax

Meade said...

Just to be clear: She lied about everything except being a McCain Campaign Volunteer, right?

Daniel said...

You know, I looked back at some of the previous comments on the other thread when the first mention of this story came out and what amazes me is that there are folks who want this story to be covered--and then some--by the media before it has even been verified.

I pointed out Simon's chumpiness, and to be sure there were others equally chumpy, but what's really disturbing is the desire to assume guilt before any real evidence has been acquired. When MM is the apparently acting rational on this, you know you're over the edge. I found this comment from Fox News VP interesting;

"If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain's quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race-baiting."

Verso said...

The McCain campaign pushed this story and even made up their own details.

"John McCain's Pennsylvania communications director told reporters in the state an incendiary version of the hoax story about the attack on a McCain volunteer well before the facts of the case were known or established -- and even told reporters outright that the "B" carved into the victim's cheek stood for "Barack," according to multiple sources familiar with the discussions.

"John Verrilli, the news director for KDKA in Pittsburgh, told TPM Election Central that McCain's Pennsylvania campaign communications director gave one of his reporters a detailed version of the attack that included a claim that the alleged attacker said, "You're with the McCain campaign? I'm going to teach you a lesson."


Damn. Just not the wingnuts' year.

Pogo said...

"uess what? Politics is cyclical. ...

But you know what? I survived. So did the country, "


If I thought all that was going to happen was more of the same, I wouldn't give a shit.

But BHO plus a filibuster-proof Democratic Congress will set this nation on the path to socialism, enacting laws that no mere election cycle will be able to undo. Take Social Security and Medicare as examples.

Personally, I think the national experiment of America will have died, replaced by a form of democratic socialism.

We'll join the Europeans in their long march to oblivion, as that is where every single nation in history has ended when socialism has taken over.

That's why there is such rage. If you fail to understand that, you understand nothing at all.

Eli Blake said...

Kathryn Russell has done some research on hoaxes like this.

She has found that of 67 well-publicized stories involving black on white or white on black 'crimes' that then turned out to be hoaxes, about 70% involved a reported perpetrator who was a black male (though there are some cases in which a black person reports that white racists have targetted them.)

As a rule I don't believe that we should tell outlets what they can and can't write but there is precedent for journalists holding to a professional code of not writing something and I believe it is incumbent on them when a case like this turns out to be a hoax to report it at least as prominently as they reported the original story (which I commend Ann for doing.)

Bob said...

This is another sad example of just how far people will go for some attention. She needs professional help. And a felony conviction.

Revenant said...

In Pittsburgh. But how about (and I say this with respect because I live down here), in other areas of the US? You know what I mean...

I know what you're implying, but I don't see a basis for the fear. Even in rednecky backwoods Louisiana we've seen how hard it is to prosecute black guys who really DO carry out racially-motivated beatings without every "civil rights" huckster in America flying down there to lead a march.

Hell, if the incident had happened in Memphis Willie Herenton would have been too busy offering the attacker a job on his security detail to focus on pushing for charges to be filed. :)

Alex said...

daniel - only in the minds of evil, vile people who link McCain to the actions of one lone nut.

mccullough said...

Pogo,

I share your concerns, but W. gave us expanded NCLB and Medicare prescription drug, neither of which we can afford, along with a huge increase in foreign aid. Al Gore would not have pushed this.

W. and the Republicans and Dems over the last 8 years have been profligate spenders.

W. fucked up the budget and debt so bad (with the help of Republicans and Democrats) that there's really nowhere to go.

The last 8 years have so tied Obama and the Democrats' hands that unless they raise taxes on everyone, they'll never be able to pay for even 1/3 of what they want.

There's just no money left with a $10 trillion debt and a more than $500 billion deficit.

Revenant said...

What did the lying stripper in the Duke lacrosse case get?

A book deal.

Daniel said...

I am not linking the actions of this nut to McCain, and that was hardly my point. But now that you bring it up...

"John McCain's Pennsylvania communications director told reporters in the state an incendiary version of the hoax story about the attack on a McCain volunteer well before the facts of the case were known or established -- and even told reporters outright that the "B" carved into the victim's cheek stood for "Barack," according to multiple sources familiar with the discussions.

John Verrilli, the news director for KDKA in Pittsburgh, told TPM Election Central that McCain's Pennsylvania campaign communications director gave one of his reporters a detailed version of the attack that included a claim that the alleged attacker said, "You're with the McCain campaign? I'm going to teach you a lesson."

Hmmm. Might want to start looking ahead to 2012!

Simon said...

Blogger Daniel said...
"[T]here are folks who want[ed] this story to be covered--and then some--by the media before it has even been verified."

What we want is some rough parity of the coverage between McCain and the coverage of Obama. As I and a couple of others pointed out, it's instructive to compare the blackout on this story with the media's reaction to the allegation that someone said "kill him" at a Palin rally, and as I said, if someone in the crowd at a McCain rally had said the n word, the media would flash a breaking news report and give it wall to wall coverage.

"what's really disturbing is the desire to assume guilt before any real evidence has been acquired."

That is inapt. I agree that the situation might have been different had the complaint been leveled against a specific person; then the balance would have been different and the need to presume his innocence would have been a counterbalance to the presumption that women who claim to have been attacked should be treated as though the allegation was true. But that wasn't the situation; the only person for whom harms had to be balanced was Todd, and as I explained above, I don't believe that assuming that a woman who claims to have been assaulted is lying is reasonable. Attacking this young woman, as people like Malkin did, is doing exactly what you're complaining about: it's assuming guilt, which is not only unfair to Todd, it may contribute to an environment where women who are beaten up may be less willing to come forward.

"I found this comment from Fox News VP interesting; 'If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain's quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race-baiting.'"

That's silly. McCain's question for the Presidency has already repeatedly been linked to race-baiting by the Obama campaign, and Obama, his supporters and his surrogates have repeatedly insinuated that his critics and opponents are racists. If McCain actually wins, Obama's people will riot, alleging that their man was done in by racism. After the last year, accusations of "racism" coming from liberals have a distinct cry wolf feeling to them.

Freeman Hunt said...

freeman - you're already behind the curve. The latest meme is "conservatives perpetrated a vile hoax on minorities". It's all over every single liberal blog like that.

Ridiculous, but I wouldn't have expected better.

Pogo said...

"W. and the Republicans and Dems over the last 8 years have been profligate spenders. "

Agreed. He turned out to be a Rockefeller/Lindsay Republican; socialsim by the installment plan.

That's hardly an endorsement to give the USA one last big shove to the left.

Simon said...

mccullough said...
"W. gave us expanded NCLB and Medicare prescription drug, neither of which we can afford, along with a huge increase in foreign aid. Al Gore would not have pushed this."

No evidence for that whatsoever. Even if we assume that Gore wouldn't have pushed those specific programs, I see no reason to suppose that Gore wouldn't have pushed spending programs at least as adventurous.

"The last 8 years have so tied Obama and the Democrats' hands that unless they raise taxes on everyone, they'll never be able to pay for even 1/3 of what they want."

Correct. That's why, as I keep telling people who bleat that Obama claims he's going to lower their taxes, he's going to raise their taxes. Do not take this reality to imply that Obama will change his plans.

Eli Blake said...

pogo:

But BHO plus a filibuster-proof Democratic Congress will set this nation on the path to socialism, enacting laws that no mere election cycle will be able to undo.

Then blame your own guys. Remember how DeLay tried to build a 'defeat-proof' conservative majority in Congress, and set the house rules so that the minority party had virtually no say at all? The whole scheme was funded on millions of dollars in shady financing and collapsed in a tidal wave of scandal (which is still happening-- my own Republican congressman, Rick Renzi, will soon be on trial for money laundering and will almost certainly be replaced by a Democrat this year.)

Then they went to war. One generation, those under 30, are paying a disproportionate share of the burden. They are most likely to know someone who has died in Iraq. Meanwhile our President didn't even raise any taxes on older people to actually share any of the cost of the war. Then college costs skyrocketed as aid was cut. So, people under 30 (who mostly just remember two Presidencies, Clinton and Bush) have tilted sharply towards the Democrats.

Bonus on Iraq: Bush did have a chance when he entered office to change the face of government, make it smaller and more conservative. He decided to go to war instead. The war consumed most of the rest of his Presidency. Consider that a lost opportunity for you guys.

Then they went after Hispanic immigrants, forgetting that millions of Hispanics have family on both sides of the border. Forty percent of Hispanics-- most of whom are culturally conservative Christians, work hard and are more patriotic than most Americans-- voted for President Bush in 2004. But that share was cut in half in 2006 (when the shift by Hispanics towards Democrats directly cost the GOP two house seats in Arizona and one in Texas) and will likely still be way down this year, likely leading to a permanent realignment of what had been a swing voter group that was trending Republican before the whole immigration trantrum. Smooth move, there.

I personally believe that after the cataclysmic failure of the deregulated free market system, we need a dose of European style socialism (starting with health care.) Guess what? I'm not the only person who's had more confidence in Europe than in Bush's America. If you'd just bought euros at the start of the Bush administration, hidden them under a mattress and done nothing else, you could today sell them back for dollars and be over 50% ahead. A lot better than any other investment.

Bob said...

Over the next few days young Ashley will get a thorough wirebrushing. And we'll find out all about her political leanings, her stability, etc. A little rough parity in reporting will be welcome but I'm betting that if any info is bad for McCain then we'll hear of it. And if its good for McCain all will be silent. After the election the full story will appear on page 22. Anyone care to bet against me?

Revenant said...

Kathryn Russell has done some research on hoaxes like this.

Her findings are probably surprising to people who are bad at math. She found that 70% of the hoaxers were whites accusing blacks. 70% of Americans ARE whites. She further found that "around one in six" of the cases involved a black person falsely accusing a white person. Around one in six Americans are black.

Simon said...

Pogo said...
"But BHO plus a filibuster-proof Democratic Congress will set this nation on the path to socialism, enacting laws that no mere election cycle will be able to undo. Take Social Security and Medicare as examples."

Some of his ill-advised actions can be challenged through litigation - and make no mistake, will be. But conservatives aren't liberals - we can't litigate something that has no credible legal theory behind it. You can't litigate policy; there won't be a conservative equivalent of Mass. v. EPA. But any and every soft spot or opening has to have the knife driven in, because if we don't, some things that get enacted can't be undone. Decades after FDR and LBJ, most of the damage they did is still in place. Our goal over the next two years ought to be to tie down that administration with so many cases he'll feel like Gulliver.

Simon said...

Eli Blake said...
"I personally believe that after the cataclysmic failure of the deregulated free market system...."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. How can the failure of one of the most heavily regulated sectors of the economy represent a "cataclysmic failure of the deregulated free market system," even assuming that this paper tiger of a crisis could remotely be described as such?

Revenant said...

Then blame your own guys.

If I leave my door unlocked and a criminal steals my television, I blame myself for leaving the door unlocked. That doesn't excuse the criminal's behavior.

The fact that Republicans made it easier for Democrats to take a big shit all over the laws of the United States doesn't make me inclined to forgive the Democrats. They're supposedly thinking adults. Republicans are their enablers, but if the Democrats didn't have bad intentions that wouldn't be a problem.

1jpb said...

Daniel,

I was reading at TPM; it looks like your excerpt is the tip of the iceberg. The McCain folks were looking for Joe 2.0. They were pushing this story hard.

A news agency even decided to take down some of the stuff they were originally regurgitating from the McCain campaign because the BHO campaign quietly asked them to wait until facts could be confirmed from non-McCain sources.

Bob,

It's the McCain folks that may end up looking bad, really bad. You should look into some of the facts.

This would be an opportunity for conservatives to call out the McCain campaign. Or not, it's your call.

Revenant said...

But conservatives aren't liberals - we can't litigate something that has no credible legal theory behind it.

Cough coughTerrySchiavocough cough.

Simon said...

Let me be clear, Eli - You're going to be fought every inch of the way if you try to impose "a dose of European style socialism." If Obama tries to ram that through, every single tool and lever available ought to be thrown at stopping it. Everything that the legislative process and the legal system makes available. I suppose that forcing the secretary of the Senate read every word of every bill and amendment that passes through the place might give new life to the idea of legislative terseness - at least until the dems show their true colors and remove such impediments to their rule.

Revenant said...

The McCain folks were looking for Joe 2.0. They were pushing this story hard.

Who are these straw man "McCain folks" who were "pushing this story hard"? The McCain campaign quite obviously wasn't; they made no attempt to promote the story at all.

Simon said...

Revenant - allow me to amend, I will not support litigation that has no credible legal theory, although I do not doubt that it will continue to be filed. And I suppose that I'll grudgingly concede that even meritless suits have some utility insofar as they still impose costs on DoJ (every minute they're having to respond to litigation is a minute that they can't be working on something more harmful), although I will still look disapprovingly on such abuses of the system.

Bob said...

eli - just curious but you do know that Bush fought his own party on immigration, right? And that he didn't start war on 9/11? He did invade Iraq so we can agree he expanded it. Nor have college aid been cut, rather college costs has outstripped the increases. And of course the Democrats have actually controlled Congress for last 2 years. Their major accomplishment would seem to be FISA bill renewal.

Truth is we have gotten into the habit of electing inconsequential presidents for quite some time. And both the parties have been nominating the same. And we look to ready to continue to do so. So we really have no one to blame but ourselves.

As the new administration has not even been decided, much less taken office, one might be more reluctant to suggest permanent realignment just yet. Lets wait till after election night, 2010.

Freeman Hunt said...

The McCain folks were looking for Joe 2.0. They were pushing this story hard.

Oh please. Did you read the statements from the campaigns when the story came out? Tepid. I thought it was obvious from the statements that neither side believed her. Of course, neither could say that. They have to go through the motions, call her, whatever, but I thought it was plain that nobody bought it.

Alex said...

simon - many would call your call to tie down the Obama admin in court the equivalent of treason. Just wait, that will be the next meme "conservative opposition to Obama is racist and treasonous".

Simon said...

Bob said...
"Nor have college aid been cut, rather college costs has outstripped the increases."

To Democrats, that's the same thing. Remember that ridiculous story about how Palin had cut funding for some kind of feel-good program, and it turned out that she simply hadn't increased its fuding by as much as the feel-good commissioner had requested?

chickenlittle said...

Eli Blake wrote:
Then blame your own guys. Remember how DeLay tried to build a 'defeat-proof' conservative majority...

..Then they went to war. One generation, those under 30, are paying a disproportionate share of the burden...

...Bonus on Iraq: Bush did have a chance when he entered office to change the face of government, make it smaller and more...

...Then they went after Hispanic immigrants, forgetting that millions of Hispanics have family on both sides of the border.

..I personally believe that after the cataclysmic failure of the deregulated free market system,..



OK Host, now I'm actually glad you're pdfing of all this. This is too rich.

1jpb said...

Revenant,

McCain's PA Communications director was pushing reporters to spread the false, unverified story. The BHO campaign was able to get the media to remove the printing of the McCain pushed "story." At the same time McCain and Palin were calling to support the liar even though the most incendiary version of her story in the media was the version being planted by the McCain campaign, w/o proof or verification.

Please don't tell me that you think McCain's PA communications director was some sort of rogue. That would be ridiculous even if McCain and Palin weren't personally involved in this, which they were.

READY, FIRE, AIM McCain 2008

Simon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Simon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

simon - my point is that will be the meme perpetrated by the MSM and liberal blogs 24/7/365 for the next 4 years. Be prepared for wiretapping, "surprise visits" by law enforcement, etc...

Simon said...

Alex said...
"simon - many would call your call to tie down the Obama admin in court the equivalent of treason."

Many would call Obama a muslim; that's a silly lie, too. The tests of truth and accuracy are truth and accuracy, not how many people believe it. Besides, the last time I checked, the official term given by the liberal left to describe litigation seeking to ensure the Bush administration complies with the Constitution and the statute book was patriotism. Do try to keep up - or is it to be patriotism when we hate the administration and treason when we love the administration?

Revenant said...

McCain's PA Communications director was pushing reporters to spread the false, unverified story.

I doubt it. You're welcome to provide evidence of that, of course.

At the same time McCain and Palin were calling to support the liar

So was the Obama campaign.

Please don't tell me that you think McCain's PA communications director was some sort of rogue.

I find it more likely that you're simply lying. After all, you often do.

Revenant said...

the last time I checked, the official term given by the liberal left to describe litigation seeking to ensure the Bush administration complies with the Constitution and the statute book was patriotism.

Eh, the media definition of "filibuster" went from "the last line of defense for the rights of an oppressed minority" to "an undemocratic affront to good government" the instant Democrats retook the Senate. The media didn't even have the decency to look embarrassed about it.

Criticism of Republicans is patriotic. Criticism of Democrats is partisan and/or racist, usually both. That's how things will be for the next four years. There isn't any point in doubting it or complaining about it, any more than there is a point to complaining that it gets chilly in the winter.

Paul Zrimsek said...

If the dollar-euro exchange rate is a proxy for the success of the "deregulated free-market system", we can only conclude that the deregulated free-market system was having a bad time up until July 2008, but has made a stunning recovery since then.

1jpb said...

revenant,

I give up. It's impossible for me to provide a link with on the record quotes from the news organizations involved.

And, it's impossible for me to provide a link with proof that the McCain campaign lies were removed from the reporting of these news organizations.

You're too smart for me, as usual.

I know when I've met my match, though in you I've met 100x my match.

You're brilliant.

Revenant said...

I give up. It's impossible for me to provide a link with on the record quotes from the news organizations involved.

So you don't have any evidence, then. That's what I thought.

And, it's impossible for me to provide a link with proof that the McCain campaign lies were removed from the reporting of these news organizations.

So you're peddling unsubstantiated rumor as fact. I.e., lying.

You're too smart for me, as usual.

That I'm much smarter than you was a given. The question was whether you had access to information I didn't. The answer, as expected, turns out to be "no" -- you were just pushing the latest left-wing smears, same as you have ever since you showed up here.

Skepticism about this incident was widespread. There would have been no reason for the McCain campaign to push the story before the police had had a chance to check things out, since a widely-publicized hoax would do more harm to McCain than an actual racially-motivated attack would to Obama. So naturally anyone with common sense would tend to doubt that McCain's folks had been pushing the story hard -- especially when the only "evidence" is the word of a pathological liar like yourself.

1jpb said...

Revenant,

Two questions:

1) Have you head of a sport called limb walking?

2) How confident are you that I can't provide such a link?

Simon said...

1jpb said...
"It's impossible for me to provide a link with on the record quotes from the news organizations involved."

Maybe you should ask that nice Mr. Axelrod to include links to evidence on your daily talking points email.

Simon said...

1jpb said...
"How confident are you that I can't provide such a link?"

Well, you said - and I quote - that it was "impossible," so I'm pretty confident that one way or another you'll make a liar of yourself. Either you provide a link and show that you were lying about it being impossible for you to do so, or you fail to provide a link and show that your allegation was a lie. Now, is it libel or slander when it's written? I always get those mixed up...

Eli Blake said...

bob (5:42):

Bush did fight his own party on immigration. And recall that he got 40% of the Hispanic vote. A lot of them still like him (not sure why, given everything else, but he is still at least a little more popular with Hispanics than with other people.) It isn't Bush that turned them to the Democrats. It was the people he was fighting. As a matter of fact, expect McCain (who isn't all that unpopular with Hispanics) to still get more of their votes this year than Republican congressmen do. There is one other demographic challenge Republicans face as a result of bashing Hispanics. Hispanic women have a fertility rate of 3.1 vs. about 1.9 for the rest of the population (both black and white.) That means that combined with legal immigration, the percentage of Hispanic voters is likely to rise over the next generation.

Speaking of Congress, you are technically right. State and Federal funding to universities was cut (that certainly happened here in Arizona) provoking huge tuition increases. College aid didn't keep up, until (and this directly contradicts your FISA renewal statement) LAST YEAR when Congress passed an expanded student aid bill (which among other things increases student aid while cutting the interest rate in half) and the President quietly signed it.

Same difference. Young people can see that Republicans did nothing for years and years while it was becoming harder for them to go to college and last year Democrats passed a better student aid package.

1jpb said...

Simon,

Are you going to play too!!

Two questions:

1) What does irony mean?

2) How confident are you that I can't provide such a link?

Eli Blake said...

revenant (5:35):

if the Democrats didn't have bad intentions that wouldn't be a problem.

That's exactly the kind of paranoia you have on the right. As a Democrat, my intentions are to try and build a society in which people don't have to be afraid of going broke if they get sick, don't have to choose between a college education for their child or a secure retirement for themselves, where America is respected, trusted and listened to in the world once again, and where we develop technologies that protect the environment while allowing us to quit having to import oil from unstable regions of the world.

If you consider that 'bad intentions' then I'd hate to think what you would think of people who advocate for the homeless.

Eli Blake said...

simon, et al.

I wholly applaud your using the courts to challenge anything that you see in any law that you believe is unconstitutional. The purpose of the courts IS to allow ordinarly citizens a way to challenge the system (a way which thankfully was not destroyed when the GOP focus on 'tort reform' of a few years ago didn't go anywhere.) Go for it.

Revenant said...

That's exactly the kind of paranoia you have on the right. As a Democrat, my intentions are to try and build a society in which [blah blah fluffy bunnies and rainbows]

That's nice, Eli. The problem is that you want to do it with my money, not yours.

Me spending $100 to pay for a sick child's doctor visit qualifies as good intentions if the money is mine. If I took it out of your wallet, I'm a thief.

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