August 31, 2008

Bush and Cheney will stay away from the GOP convention because of Hurricane Gustav.

Reports CNN. Other changes to the convention are needed:
"I wouldn't call it a nightmare, but it is a very perplexing challenge," said a GOP official planning the event.

A senior McCain source said Saturday that officials are considering turning the convention into a service event, a massive telethon to raise money for the Red Cross and other agencies to help with the hurricane.
Be careful. People will say you're just trying to claim viewers, and the viewers are going to want to see pictures of the big storm. They are going to want to see reporters dodging shards of metal.

Quite aside from the convention, Bush needs to handle the emergency brilliantly well. That is the best way to promote the Republican Party. Demonstrate competence.

IN THE COMMENTS: sammy990099 says:
I guess Michael Moore was right. There is a God in heaven. And he, in his wisdom, has provided a convenient excuse for W and C not to appear in St. Paul.

Good point! Here's the Michael Moore clip, in case you haven't seen it:



ADDED: And then there's this, former National Chairman of the Democratic National Committee Don Fowler laughing with Congressman John Spratt of South Carolina about the hurricane:



"It just demonstrates God's on our side." Then that must be the devil right behind you with a digital camcorder.

92 comments:

sammy990099 said...

I guess Michael Moore was right. There is a God in heaven. And he, in his wisdom, has provided a convenient excuse for W and C not to appear in St. Paul.

Jason Brady said...

I don't think its going to be big issue. Unlike Katrina, the Governor on the ground seems to know what he is doing, and you would hope that the mayor has finally figured it out. And we already know Mississippi, Florida, and Texas can deal.

If there is lot of damage to the oil and nat gas rigs, the storm might present a great opportunity to talk about diversifying our domestic energy supply - say from a resource rich state in the great Northwest that is hurricane free. The only thing standing between us and a more diversified domestic energy supply is the US congress (9% approval rating). I wonder if we can find a politician who actually understands this issue and is willing to go to DC and discuss it?

Simon said...

It is a problem. At very least, the tone of speeches needs to be changed - think of the symbolism! Think of the juxtaposition of a celebration in the Twin Cities while ordinary Americans are stuggling to deal with a massive storm. It isn't cynicism for the organizers to take this into account, it'd be malpractice for them not to.

Ann said...
"Quite aside from the convention, Bush needs to handle the emergency brilliantly well. That is the best way to promote the Republican Party. Demonstrate competence."

Absolutely. Posner talked about this in his more recent Charlie Rose interview (it's on youtube) - that on some level, it's even worse for public confidence in the government if government fails to handle a crisis that's a rerun of one that's already happened recently than it is for government to fail to react to a much bigger crisis that's truly new.

Jim Hu said...

This video of Dems returning from Denver gloating about Gustav isn't pretty either.

Randy said...

If the hurricane causes massive devastation (a big if), the fact that they used the time to raise money for relief while going about the business they are there for will be to their credit, I think.

As for the Bush Administration, their image is so damaged that it won't matter one way or the other. If things go well, the story line will be that they only did it right this time because there is now a Republican governor in Louisiana. In fact, it already is the story line for some. If things go badly again, it will just confirm that the Bush Administration is incompetent, confirming a widely-held belief.

The convention should go on, just as life in most of the United States shall go on as normal. The government should do what the government is supposed to do. If the GOP wants to help by raising awareness and funds during their convention, good for them. If the Democrats want to spend some of their campaign money doing the same thing, good for them, too.

With any luck, the hurricane won't cause massive devastation or the dislocation of thousands, the American people can continue their personal pursuits of happiness, the GOP can have their convention, the government can go about the normal routine of business, and the Democrats concentrate on their own campaign.

bleeper said...

When did Jabba the Hutt start wearing glasses?

Simon said...

Re the update, oh, gee - three years ago John McCain had CAKE on his BIRTHDAY! What unprecedented, monstrous evil this demonstrates! No one on earth would have been so callous as to celebrate their birthday - with cake! And literally, as Mike Moore adds, as if adding amplifiers somehow salvages the point from ridicule.

MadisonMan said...

I think it's good for McCain that Bush is not at the convention, so apparently God is a Republican.

Actually, I just think God loves irony. I think it's fair to say that a hurricane hitting Louisiana as Republicans gather is ironic.

The good news is Gustav is looking forlorn, but there's plenty of warm water between its present location and Louisiana to facilitate strengthening.

Sloanasaurus said...

The bad thing for the media is that they are going to have an instant counterpoint to their biased coverage of the Hurricane - the Republican Convention.

It may also allow Sarah Palin to show where she is an expert - on oil and gas.

Just a thought. Does anyone realize that the root of almost all major foreign policy issues (other than terrorism) right now in today's world is the struggle over oil and gas, whether it be who controls the supply, who controls the pipelines, who gets paid the money, what the contracts say etc... Oil and gas is the root of the entire issue of Russia. Its all about oil and Gas, and pipelines, etc...

The only candidate right now who has actually negotiated oil and gas contracts on behalf of a state and knows a lot about it is not Barack Obama or Joe Biden or John McCain but Sarah Palin (but the media says she has no experience).

Peter V. Bella said...

My morning was just ruined. The rabid attack dog Olbermann and the trailer trash lokking liar Moore pretending to have an intelligent conversation. A six year old has more intelligence and maturity than the two of them combined.

Jerome Cole said...

I agree with the other commenter who mentioned that it's probably in McCain's best interest not to have Bush and Cheney at the convention.

In fact, this might be a great chance to show the voters, that unlike the Democrats, the Republicans are getting their act together. A swift and effective hurricane relief might not help the Republicans, but it sure as hell won't hurt.

Several people have floated the idea of turning the RNC into a fundraiser for the Red Cross and/or having the delegates perform a mass act of community service by preparing care packages for hurricane victims. This is the right thing to do, both morally and politically. Let's hope they follow through.

AJ Lynch said...

Michael Moore is angry he did not get a big piece of McCain's cake.

Ann Althouse said...

MadisonMan said..."I think it's good for McCain that Bush is not at the convention, so apparently God is a Republican."

Sammy made the same point in the first comment (more sardonically).

rhhardin said...

It lost me when it was unforgiveable that New Orleans was devastated.

Gravity is not protecting it, you know.

Floods make a real mess wherever they happen, if there's structures there.

You don't see many houses built in bottomland, in normal parts of the country. Once bitten, twice shy.

You'd think that would figure into the story somewhere.

Even the farmer who plants bottomland knows the odds and plans accordingly.

campy said...

Work in some comments about Republicans coming together to protect America rom disasters like the Obama/Biden ticket and it might sell.

Fred Mack said...

Now if they could just come up with an excuse for Sarah Palin to have to miss giving a key note speech, the GOP might have a perfect convention.

Maybe that ominous Soviet threat she learned so much about as part-time Mayor of Wasilla will boil up and require her well-honed diplomatic skills back in Alaska, where she has been keeping America safe all these years.

Chip Ahoy said...

Michael Moore, shines up like a new dime, dunn'e?

Didn't click the link. Used to listen attentively, as one listens to a comedian, but no more. God told me the darkening of my own soul is a matter entirely of my own decision making, and that made me go, "Wow, God, that's really smart!"

The convention, now this might be worth watching possibly with sound. If just to keep an eye on those waskawee Wepubwikans and their many twicks. Hopefully it'll be unlike a personality-obsessed pep rally or coronation but rather a proper convention that acknowledges state delegates individually.

I wish, but rarely get my wishes, that Bush and Cheney would make televised appearances. It's what I thought was smart for Gore to do for his many appearances, in order to drive the point he keeps making for the rest of us. But he deems otherwise. For some reason, which eludes me, it's important to bask in the glow up close and personal for the magic to work its full effect.

I love storms. Does that make me bad? My favorite lines in the movie Dune are "There's a storm coming. Our storm."

Fen said...

Maybe that ominous Soviet threat she learned so much about as part-time Mayor of Wasilla will boil up and require her well-honed diplomatic skills back in Alaska, where she has been keeping America safe all these years.

The "soviets" are currently expanding their empire to the southwest. So I think she'll be okay. Of course, her meager foreign policy experience, dealing with Russian and Canadian interests, still trumps Obamas.

Lem said...

...Now if they could just come up with an excuse for Sarah Palin to have to miss giving a key note speech, the GOP might have a perfect convention.

There is a God in heaven.

Here we have a second chance at redemption for the mishandling of katrina in the heals of a second chance for a woman to be a hart beat away from the presidency.

In baseball lingo that's two for two.

In a way it's even better Not celebrating it.

Ron said...

Get me a good DP and a budget that they would use to shoot a Taco Bell commercial, and I will depose Michael Moore as The Fat Filmmaker from Michigan faster than the Politburo could announce "Stalin is dead!", Oscar or no!

john said...

If Gustav veers west into Texas, or otherwise fails to deliver its punch to NO, what will be Bush's excuse for avoiding the convention?

Seriously.

somefeller said...

Michael Moore is a buffoon, and most documentary filmmakers (when off-camera) will say that he's a hackish filmmaker who injects himself into his films way too much, and ends up damaging those films. Errol Morris is a much better filmmaker.

That having been said, while it's good that the Republicans are altering their convention plans because of this tragedy, they wouldn't feel the need to do so much alteration had Bush not failed as a President in the Katrina crisis the first time around.

peter hoh said...

There was a youtube video showing a preacher asking people to pray for torrential rain to drown out Obama's acceptance speech.

Unfortunately, it's been removed.

Michael Moore comes off as a zit on a boil.

P. Rich said...

"Bush needs to handle the emergency brilliantly well. That is the best way to promote the Republican Party. Demonstrate competence."

That's ignorance speaking, or something worse. How exactly can Bush "handle the emergency brilliantly well", especially given that whatever you hear about it will be filtered through the media - and that story is already written. What, he should be out there now loading sandbags?

Nagin is a Dem idiot who grossly handled Katrina, and he was re-elected. See any stories about that? Didn't think so. And the previous Dem LA governor's incompetence? No? What a surprise.

The federal government never does anything perfectly, and that is reflected in 8 years of critical bias always culminating in some tired version of "Bush is stupid and evil." That won't change no matter what he does, especially since the media will never give a Republican, governor or President, any positive press at this moment in time. Grow up. Sample reality. Or is your personal delusion too comfortable?

Jake said...

'They are going to want to see reporters dodging shards of metal.'

And some will be hoping that they aren't so fleet of foot.

Fen said...

If Gustav veers west into Texas, or otherwise fails to deliver its punch to NO, what will be Bush's excuse for avoiding the convention? Seriously.

I doubt Bush will avoid the convention if Gustav hits Texas. Something about Grey Tribes and Pink Tribes, ie. he knows Houston and Galveston will respond responsibly.

And I think one of the reasons some of us are so excited about Palin is because its obvious to us that she comes from the Grey Tribe.

Chip Ahoy said...

Maybe McCain and Palin can come riding into town standing triumphantly holding the reins on top of the backs of giant sand worms.

Helicopters again. This time it's a stream of military Bell UH-1 Hueys. Army color. They have a distinctive sound. In train. Oops. There goes a Chinook. They all seem to be older. Must be National Guard.

Sloanasaurus said...

she learned so much about as part-time Mayor of Wasilla will boil up and require her well-honed diplomatic skills back in Alaska, where she has been keeping America safe all these years.

Wow, liberals really do hate small town America - red necks, NASCAR, guns, the flag, patriotism, etc...

Lets hope Obama can use the skills he learned as a community organizer negotiate energy contracts with the Russians and Azerbajanis, etc...

rhhardin said...

I'm with the Dem on the video.

He's making a joke and doesn't care much about New Orleans, like everybody else who isn't buying into the news cycle's crisis of the day.

You've caught him not being an idiot PC sympathizer.

It's a joke not about New Orleans, not about people, but about the news media.

peter hoh said...

Re. Fowler update: Adding to the idea that the Democrats are the stupid party.

Now I get why politicians prefer to fly on private jets.

Sloanasaurus said...

Of course, her meager foreign policy experience, dealing with Russian and Canadian interests, still trumps Obamas.

Fen, I think you are mistaken. Obama managed to obtain a $300,000 "gift" from an pro-palestinian billionaire in the UK via Tony Rezko when he was buying his mansion in Chicago. Obama must have had some international experience to accomplish that.

Simon said...

P.Rich, your comment is living on another world. You think that's it's "ignorant" to say that "Bush needs to handle the emergency brilliantly well"? Do you really not get that regardless of who was actually to blame for Katrina, the general public - prompted by the MSM - blamed Bush? Do you really not understand that if disaster strikes again, the media will tell the people that it was Bush's fault, and the people - whose support we're going to need in two months - will follow? If forestalling that portrayal means Bush personally loading sandags on camera, he should do it as if his life depended on it. Which, by the way, it may well do if Obama wins the election and initiates the war crimes trials his base wants to see.

Stop obsessing over winning the argument and realize that for purposes of winning an election, it's perceptions that count. The public believes that Katrina was Bush's fault. They're wrong - but so what? They're going to vote on their opinions, not your opinion, my opinion, or still less the historically objective truth. The public needs to perceive Bush has having done all he can to prevent any disaster here.

Shan said...

To maintain "cruel nuetrality", shouldn't you put up the official video produced by Dobson's group asking God for "torrential rain" on the night of Obama's speech?

Fen said...

Fen, I think you are mistaken. Obama managed to obtain a $300,000 "gift" from an pro-palestinian billionaire in the UK via Tony Rezko when he was buying his mansion in Chicago. Obama must have had some international experience to accomplish that.

My bad. I forgot that Obama has financial ties to Nadhmi Auchi. I guess for the Left, Graft and Corruption can be applied to foreign policy experience.

/Auchi: "...controversial Iraqi-born, British billionaire who, according to one report, "set up a variety of deals with Saddam Hussein's regime prior to the 1991 Gulf War, and was one of the largest private shareholders in BNP Paribas, the bank that trafficked most of the funds involved in the UN Oil-For-Food scandal. He also admitted taking kickbacks from the French petroleum company TotalFinaElf in the 1990s."

Fen said...

To maintain "cruel nuetrality",

Yes please. We are ALL SO CONCERNED about Ann's nuetrality. Sheesh.

save_the_rustbelt said...

I just saw Gov. Jindall on TV.

McCain is somewhere kicking himself because Jindall may come out of this the hottest young politician in the country.

But then even if Jindall is a superstar, the hurricane could humble him.

Always remember the first corollary to the Boy Scout motto.

"Mother Nature is a bitch."

Fen said...

sloan: The only candidate right now who has actually negotiated oil and gas contracts on behalf of a state and knows a lot about it -

Thats an excellent point. A super-majority of the country is in favor of drilling for oil in America. And McCain needs to be pushed closer to the "drill AND find new clean energy" side of the argument. Perhaps Palin can do that.

peter hoh said...

If Jindall shines, and some scandal takes the luster off Palin, then maybe McCain will treat her like he did his first wife.

AllenS said...

Very good idea, Shan. Why don't you provide a link, and then we can make fun of that idiot. There is a video, right?

AllenS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...

What does the hurricane have to do with Bush/Cheney attending the convention? Are we to believe they will both be in Louisiana/Texas handling sand bags?

And are we to assume the weather is the reason for these people not attending?

Sen. Pat Roberts (KS)
Ted Stevens (AK)
Elizabeth Dole (NC)
Gordon Smith (OR)
Susan Collins (ME)
Larry Craig (ID)
Chuck Hagel (NE)
Wayne Allard (CO).
John Sununu (NH)
Roger Wicker (MS)

Michael said...

Anybody know who said this about our Iraqi policy?

"I want to know that we have an exit plan in place."

Seven Machos said...

Michael -- Here's a tip: when all you do is try to score gotcha points, no one respects you.

Michael said...

seven,
Oh, right.

I forgot.

Everybody here is more interested in real discussion and debate.

Now...that is funny.

Michael said...

seven,
Can I assume you have no real response to my question regarding attendance at the convention, too?

Joe said...

It's possible that this very week, the Democrats lost the election. First, they have nothing but petty responses to McCain picking Palin. Second, Democrats are making asses of themselves by openly rejoicing in the suffering of the very people they portend to defend. Third, McCain will show leadership by changing the Republican convention to something less utterly stupid--though I would prefer he just call it off entirely.

Fen said...

Everybody here is more interested in real discussion than debate.

/fixed

Now...that is funny.

What is funny is that you don't understand the diff between discussion and debate. Sophomoronic.

P. Rich said...

"P.Rich, your comment is living on another world. You think that's it's "ignorant" to say that "Bush needs to handle the emergency brilliantly well"? Do you really not get that regardless of who was actually to blame for Katrina, the general public - prompted by the MSM - blamed Bush?"

Brilliant job of parroting, SImon. Apparently you need a remedial reading comprehension lesson or ten. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY POST. (Caps deliberate, to cut through the Althouse-induced Simon-fog). The difference is, in your and Althouse's naive view of the world, there is actually something he can do that will result in a different media outcome. That is ignorant and delusional. Got it now, or are smaller words necessary?

PS

Simon the Althouse Defender is a trite persona. Perhaps you should consider discarding the shining knightly armor and brave stallion... oh, and the tattered lance. She'll still like you. Really.

Michael said...

fen,
I don't want to get into an overblown discussion or debate regarding your comment, but if you really don't understand the synergy and commonality between a discussion and a debate you might want to pick yourself up a dictionary.

Discuss: to investigate by reasoning or argument

Debate: a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

Of course there is a difference, so I guess my question to you is this: What exactly is your point? That this is not a discussion or that it is not a debate?

LoafingOaf said...

If a big natural disaster was imminently approaching my city after already having killed dozens of people on the way, the last thing I'd wanna see are a bunch of partisan Democrats and partisan Republicans mostly concerned about how they should spin it. In this respect, some of these Democrats are worse, seeming happy that there's a hurricane that might kill Americans.

LoafingOaf said...

First, they have nothing but petty responses to McCain picking Palin.

Well, they have found at least two things that sorta trouble me about Palin. One is that she was apparently in the Buchanan Brigades (that's Pat Buchanan, the Catholic fascist). The other is a quote where she said she wasn't much interested in what was going on in Iraq.

Kirby Olson said...

Tom Daschle said this morning on CNN that anybody who pays any attention to the Republican convention this week instead of worrying about the people of New Orleans is a jerk without any sense of principles. I forgot to get the exact quote, but that's the gist of what he said. He kept a straight face while he said this, for which he should get a point or two, I suppose.

Roger J. said...

what loafin oaf said--does anyone realize that a hurricane is going to kill people and cause millions of dollars of damage and ruin peoples lives? And all you sorry bastards can do is see it thru a political lens--you people are pathetic--absolutely pathetic and souless as well. god have mercy on you.

And has anyone heard from Beth recently?

LoafingOaf said...

Oh, and a third thing about Palin. She's not just pro-life, she apparently (if Chris Matthews has it correct) in favor of outlawing all abortions no matter the circumstances (including rape and incest).

Randy said...

LoafingOaf: The Buchanan Brigade story is not true. David Bernstein at the Volokh COnspiracy has the details if you are interested. There's a link to Volokh in the Althouse blogroll.

As to your point about politicizing natural disasters, I agree. Unfortunately the press, the politicians and the partisans view almost everything from a political point of view.

Randy said...

(Cut off this portion in edit)

Chris Matthews is hardly the most reliable reporter of fact, but if you look around, you'll find an interview of Palin wherein she discusses her position on the subject. I found it and I read it, so I'm sure you can, too.

Randy said...

Tom Daschle said this morning on CNN that anybody who pays any attention to the Republican convention this week instead of worrying about the people of New Orleans is a jerk without any sense of principles.

If everyone in America drops what they are doing to agonize over the possibility of a potential natural disaster, no one will ever get any work done. Earthquakes happen every day in California, are we supposed to all stand trembling in fear that the next will be THE BIG ONE that levels San Francisco or Los Angeles?

LoafingOaf said...

Re: Palin allegedly a Buchanan Brigader.

The Volokh blog eases my mind a little, but they act like the case is closed. Yet I saw Patrick Buchanan on MSNBC this weekend bragging about how Palin was a Brigader starting in 1996, not just someone who once wore a button. If Buchanan - an MSNBC employee - is lying about this, shouldn't MSNBC require him to issue a retraction and then discipline him for misleading viewers?

Michael said...

Buchanan told Chris Matthews yesterday that Palin "was a brigader in 1996 as was her husband, Chris.

From an AP report in 1999:

"Pat Buchanan brought his conservative message of a smaller government and an America First foreign policy to Fairbanks and Wasilla on Friday as he continued a campaign swing through Alaska. Buchanan's strong message championing states rights resonated with the roughly 85 people gathered for an Interior Republican luncheon in Fairbanks. … Among those sporting Buchanan buttons were Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin and state Sen. Jerry Ward, R-Anchorage."

LoafingOaf said...

you'll find an interview of Palin wherein she discusses her position on the subject. I found it and I read it, so I'm sure you can, too.

We'll find out soon enough at the convention and during the debates. I'm gonna sit here and do homework when there's so much more fun stuff on the Internet. If it turns out Matthews misrepresented her I'll remember to trust him less.

LoafingOaf said...

I meant: I'm NOT gonna sit here and do homework when there's so much more fun stuff on the Internet.

I just happened to be flipping thru the channels yesterday and watchged the Chris Matthews program. I'm not following the campaign as closely as some of you until the debates start. If everything I was being told on Palin on that show was false, I guess some of you were right about MSNBC.

Nichevo said...

Lemme just jump in here - Jason - no offense, but in:

If there is lot of damage to the oil and nat gas rigs, the storm might present a great opportunity to talk about diversifying our domestic energy supply - say from a resource rich state in the great Northwest that is hurricane free.

I must take exception. While there may not be hurricanes, typhoons (the worst, IIRC) or tornadoes, there are definitely high energy weather patterns in the Bering Strait. Why, the very Beaufort wind force scale was developed in Alaskan waters, I believe.

Randy said...

Michael, Bay Buchanan, Pat's sister and his campaign manager at that time says that is not true. The published record from the time shows newspaper articles listing Palin as a Forbes supporter and her letter to the editor of the local paper stating that she supported Forbes, not Buchanan, after that story appeared. As she explained then, she wore the button as a courtesy while acting as mayor.

But you know that already, I am sure. Why you are joining Pat Buchanan in lying about it is another matter.

Seven Machos said...

More substance-free gotcha points that convince no one of anything, Michael. You are really racking them up. Congrats. Have you won yet?

Randy said...

LoafingOaf: Bay Buchanan says differently and she ought to know. The contemporary record at the time proves differently. Or is this a case like the Bruno Magli shoes being planted on OJ before the crime?

In RE: MSNBC: They don't exactly have high standards for their reporter's accuracy now do they?

As to Matthews' report - all I was saying is anyone who reports getting a tingle up his leg for one candidate can not be relied upon to accurately report on any other. In this case, whatever he actually said may be close to the truth, but if you want the truth you have to do a little work for yourself instead of relying on others to do your due diligence for you. It's out there and easily accessible for those who want it. If you want to rely on the hearsay of others (including me) that's your affair.

LoafingOaf said...

If you directly link me to Palin's interview, I'd look at it. But I figure this is one of the leading issues of our campaigns so it'll get discussed plenty from Palin's own mouth in the weeks ahead. So, I can be lazy. :)

As for the Buchanan thing, I find it a bt odd that Pat Buchanan said so confidently that she was an enthusiastic Brigadier if she wasn't. And the more I think about the button thing...I guess it's possible she wore it to be nice, but...I don't ever recall seeing a politician wearing campaign buttons of candidates they dislike just to be nice. Why would someone put on a button for a politician she doesn't think is a good one?

Michael said...

I'm no Buchanan fan, but this is what I posted, and it's based on what he literally said:

Buchanan told Chris Matthews yesterday that Palin "was a brigader in 1996 as was her husband, Chris.

Now, if you think he was lying and that the AP report from 1999 is also false, so be it.

*As for seven machos continuing with the "gotcha" and "no substance" silliness; I have no idea what posting what you've read or heard has to do with the comment. It;s one thing to disagree, another to consider anything you don't like to be considered a "gotcha" moment.

Fen said...

Micheal: Of course there is a difference, so I guess my question to you is this: What exactly is your point?

The difference is that you think this is a debate - you're more interested in sophistry and point scoring than discussing Palin in good faith.

Michael said...

randy,
Just for clarification, it was an "interview" where Buchanan said she was a member, not some kind of long-winded "report, so I don't understand what Mathews has to do with the credibility."

It's rather difficult disparaging what was actually said, even if his sister remembers something else or spins it.

I also don't think it's huge, but this is where things start.

Fen said...

"you'll find an interview of Palin wherein she discusses her position on the subject. I found it and I read it, so I'm sure you can, too."

loaf: We'll find out soon enough at the convention and during the debates.

To be more precise, what Loaf means is: "I can't be bothered to look up the truth, like Micheal, I'm more interested in broaching ignorant assumptions re Palin."

I haven't seen such a display of commitment and consistency since Clinton admitted he lied about exchanging blowjobs for interviews at Revlon.

Michael said...

Fen,
I never said this was only a debate.

I made a sarcastic comment relating to seven machos describing damn near anything I post as being a "gotcha" moment.

I would hope everybody would discuss and debate...whether they agree or disagree.

Michael said...

fen,
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

I didn't post any comments based on "assumptions" of any sort.

What I posted was related to Buchanan himself stating that she belonged and an AP report from 1999.

Are YOU making the "assumption" Buchanan and the AP are lying?

Michael said...

fen,
When you say; "...you're more interested in sophistry and point scoring than discussing Palin in good faith."

Do you include any form of disagreement or criticism as being "in good faith" or only what you want to hear or be said?

vbspurs said...

Despicable. Politics turned disaster flick. The Poseidon Adventure or Twister coming to a State near you. Ugh.

I don't want to comment further on this thread, because just thinking about these inhuman impulses to cheer for tragedy to benefit their side (any side), is beyond my threshold of credulity.

Cheers,
Victoria

LoafingOaf said...

Palin may prove to be a good choice by McCain. I found her very likable in her speech and I like that we have a fresh face on the McCain ticket.

But you can't really trust all these right wing bloggers and right wing blog commenters on Palin. The fact is, they fell in love with her a few months ago based on almost nothing. They found her sexy, got off on pics of her holding up animals she had just killed, got off on pics of her wielding guns, and she passed their big litmus test of being pro-life.

The fact is, we don't know much about her. I see on Andrew Sullivan's blog a quote from her when the surge was anounced that she wasn't paying attention to the Iraq war and didn't have an opinion on that, except she wanted a clear exit strategy and assurances that our troops will be treated well.

So what is she doing on the holiday weekend before the convention? Cramming on a lot of these major issues at the last minute? Obama may not have much experience either, but he didn't just start thinking about Iraq the weekend before his convention.

Cedarford said...

I am a little sick of the "Katrina narrative" where the nations business is supposed to stop out of special concern for subsea level dwellers of one corrupted, high crime slum of a city. Who live smack in the middle of Hurrican Alley and And all politicians are supposedly morally obligated to line up in complete solidarity with the give whatever money they demand, and blame government for a predictable event that happens annually, several times, on US Coasts.

And trot down there to prove to hysterical journalists that "they care" - along with the thousands of Hollywood celebrities, race-baiters winging in by private jet also wanting the cameras to catch them in the act of caring so much, loving the children, and showing their enlightened social consciences.

Oh, and ensuring that the multimillionaire owners of NOLA slums and swank coastal properties elsewhere are "made fully whole again" - As taxpayers in battered northern industrial states are expected to subsidize the reckless property development in Hurricane Alley.

The rest of the nation is expected not to build within 100-year floodlines, set up subdivisions on slopes of volcanos, or create housing and commercial structures without regard for earthquake and fire standards that in turn keeps their unsubsidized by taxpayer insurance rates lower.

dick said...

Laughing Oaf,

Why ould he put on the button? It is a strange concept for Democrats to understand but it is called common courtesy. You would not wear a Rudy button while you were greeting McCain as an official of the town McCain was visiting nor would you wear an Obama button while greeting Hillary as the official of a town. I know Democrats have problems understanding the concept but if you click your heels, shut your eyes and spin around 3 times, maybe, just maybe, you can understand.

vbspurs said...

Obama may not have much experience either, but he didn't just start thinking about Iraq the weekend before his convention.

This reminds me of the criticism of Bush versus Kerry. The latter spoke much better than the former.

I said, what do I care how Bush speaks, as long as he shares my same values and vision for this country?

Similarly, what do I care if Obama has a million strategies for Iraq, mired with the whiff defeat before and after, if Palin more clearly shares my view on the matter?

Obama is in the awful position of not having any executive experience, but thinking he has a good grip on the situation, and is ready to rock-and-roll from day one.

And I disagree with that.

Palin is McCain's subordinate, but shares his values of military service and dedication to their country. I think she'll be up to speed just fine.

vbspurs said...

Oops, I broke my word by mistake. I'd make a great politician.

Fen said...

Micheal: fen, When you say; "...you're more interested in sophistry and point scoring than discussing Palin in good faith." Do you include any form of disagreement or criticism as being "in good faith"

No.

or only what you want to hear or be said?

No again. My problem with you is you're posing. You pretend to be curious about Palin, but its all an intro for you to either damn with faint praise, sow doubt, raise unfouded assertions, etc.

In short, you clearly have an agenda.

MadisonMan said...

what do I care how Bush speaks, as long as he shares my same values and vision for this country?

A President will do a lousy job at bully pulpitting if his communication skills are bad. My own opinion is that the war in Iraq would be far more successful and popular (both good things) if the current President did a better job of selling the reasons for being there. That is one of my chief complaints about Bush -- he doesn't do enough to reinforce why we are doing what we're doing.

LoafingOaf said...

dick: Why ould he put on the button? It is a strange concept for Democrats to understand but it is called common courtesy. You would not wear a Rudy button while you were greeting McCain as an official of the town McCain was visiting nor would you wear an Obama button while greeting Hillary as the official of a town. I know Democrats have problems understanding the concept but if you click your heels, shut your eyes and spin around 3 times, maybe, just maybe, you can understand.

First of all, by 1996 there was no doubt that Patrick Buchanan was a fringe extremist who didn't even much like capitalism and certainly did not like Jews. This was the year Gore Vidal started thinking Pat Buchanan was kinda cool and said in Vanity Fair that we shouldn't be too harsh if there's an ethnic group a person has a personal beef with.
Buchanan was also making very hateful speeches that were praised by the likes of that crazy Russian nationalist Zhirinovsky.

To wear a Buchanan button was a controversial thing.

IMO, when you put on a political button, it means you're endorsing what the button represents, to some degree anyway. At the very least, she should explain why McCain's campaign is saying one thing and Buchanan is saying something else.

Buchanan has many exreme positions on immigration, free trade, Jews, Israel, and so on. We don't have much of a record on Palin's views. Now that she wants to be VP and considers herself worthy of being President, we must know all.

Fen said...

Well Democrats, three are reported dead so far. Is that enough, or do you need more deaths to translate into political capital?

MadisonMan said...

Ann (@ 11:16): My reading comprehension really takes a dive when a post includes Michael Moore was right. That explains why I missed the point.

blake said...

MadisonMan, no argument there.

But I can look at almost all the stuff he did, and compare it with the two things he did that I agree with, and say I'm still glad he won over Gore, who might've done neither--however eloquently he explained it.

blake said...

She's not just pro-life, she apparently...in favor of outlawing all abortions no matter the circumstances (including rape and incest).

What about rape or incest makes a baby not a baby? This is the view that most pro-lifers, take, I think: Life begins at conception.

Why would you consider this extreme, rather than consistent?

Michael said...

Fen says: "My problem with you is you're posing. You pretend to be curious about Palin but its all an intro for you to either damn with faint praise, sow doubt, raise unfouded assertions, etc..."

I "pretend" to be curious, then "damn with faint praise?"

What the hell are you talking about? I posted a comment from Buchanan, backed up by an artilce by the AP.

How in the world do you translate that into what you're saying?

Much like everybody else I just learned of the woman a few days ago and I'm reading what I can about her.

You appear to be a tad too argumentative to engage in any kind of reasonable discourse, so...forget about anything I post and just move on.

Randy said...

But you can't really trust all these right wing bloggers and right wing blog commenters on Palin.

No, you can't. And you can't trust the left-wing bloggers and left-wing blog commenters. The same applies for both on just about any subject. You have to do your own due diligence. As you say, someone may eventually give you a direct link to whatever it is they are talking about, so you can feel free to be lazy about it. I decided not to be so kind ;-)

Randy said...

Michael, here's all the proof a reasonable human being needs:

July 26, 1999, letter to the editor of the Anchorage Daily News by Sarah Palin:

As mayor of Wasilla, I am proud to welcome all presidential candidates to our city. This is true regardless of their party, or the latest odds of their winning. When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I'll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect.

Though no reporter interviewed me for the Associated Press article on the recent visit by a presidential candidate (Metro, July 17), the article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla. As mayor, I will welcome all the candidates in Wasilla.


As you strike me as being neither reasonable nor honest in your motivation, I expect you to ignore this.

Cedarford said...

Loafing Oaf - Buchanan has many exreme positions on immigration, free trade, Jews, Israel, and so on.

Extreme???

1. Buchanan is mainstream on immigration.
2. Buchanan is backed by most workers now that see free trade as bankrupting us to China and causing the destruction of good-paying jobs to favor the wealthy corporatists bankrolling both parties.
3. You cannot say that it is OK to criticize all other nations, including "democracies" - while saying that the rules are "special" for Israel, which must never be critized. Though it is fine to hammer the French, Serbs, Chinese, Brits, Canadians as well as NORKs and Zimabweans...
4. You cannot say that it is only impermissable to criticize one powerful and impactful ethnic/religious group, The Jews - while it is OK to question and hit activities of Cuban-Americans, black underclass, Mormons, white ethnics, Catholics, privileged WASPS. Especially given the Jewish proclivity for bashing other groups as "simply progressivism to help them from their ignorant or bad beliefs", or mantaining paternalism that blacks were too childlike and impulsive to run groups that Jews set up for them, like the NAACP and Porter's Unions..
5. Buchanan was right on Iraq, right on the Neocons, right on Europe's demographic challenges threatening more and more their stability and viability as democratic, socialist, tolerant nations.
He was right in calling Bush a failed President back when Bush was still called the American Churchill. He was right on the backlash for kicking Russia when it was down. He was one of the 1st to say globalism was a disaster-in-waiting and no way would China surrender it's authoritarian capitalism model anymore than Singapore did after 50 years of rising prosperity.

All reasons why Pat Buchanan is such a best-seller, both here and internationally, on politics and foreign policy.

Peter V. Bella said...

Shan said...
To maintain "cruel nuetrality", shouldn't you put up the official video produced by Dobson's group asking God for "torrential rain" on the night of Obama's speech?


WHy? It happened. It was a real Al Gore Global Warming moment. I heard he is making another movie about it.

The very next day yellow rain struck and fell on the Obama parade and the Democrats right at the same time the Palin announcement was made.

dave in boca said...

The Democrats are so convinced that their own little cocoon [which matches those in other political elites in PC countries] is impregnable to reactions of the people, by the people & for the people---that any shameless wretched attacks on Palin or McCain are perfectly okay.

Unless the country is morphed into some sort of Uruk-Hai Mordor in the last four years, my guess is that the perfect ideological righteousness of the International Left will once again be rejected by free voters.

I cannot wait for Barbara Boxer & Nancy NutCase & other pseudo-females shriek & screech when Palin is the first US VP.