November 6, 2011

"Under the threat of federal action, everything about kids' food..."

"... from cereal sugar levels to mascots to TV ads, is under scrutiny."

131 comments:

Shanna said...

The Grocery Manufacturers Association, a trade group for makers of packaged food, says no, pointing to a landmark 2005 study by the Institute of Medicine that failed to show food advertising caused childhood obesity.

Because 5 year olds don't have jobs and cars to go buy cereal, they have parents. All those parents have to do is buy the healthy stuff (or limit the unhealthy). It's not that hard, people.

Shouting Thomas said...

A growing public backlash against marketing sugar-heavy food to children has the federal government putting extraordinary new pressure on the nation's cerealmakers and other food companies.

Translated: This reporter needs a controversy to sell a story, and probably is the very "public bashlash" he's referring to.

Carol_Herman said...

Well, it's a "federal jobs program." They'll need to hire lots of people. Not just in food service. By the time taxpayers pay for "food service" ... the cut backs get to be very real.

But the monitors who are there to make sure the kids can't even chew gum.

Of course, when I went to school you weren't allowed to chew gum, either. So kids, not to be caught, stuck the gum they were chewing, out of their mouths, and onto the bottom of their desks. (When the bell rang they put the gum back, again.)

Obama just got caught chewing gum at the big 20 'conference.' He should'a just taken the gum and pasted it under his teleprompter, or something. Until the cameraman got tired, and "panned" the room.

mesquito said...

Dear America:

Your spawn are fat because you keep them indoors and bored, venturing out for over-organized activities, shopping and eating. Try kicking the fat little bastards out of the house in the morning and letting them fend for themselves the balance of the day.

madAsHell said...

Standby for new taxes!

Beta Rube said...

Aren't these the same folks tat discourage vigorous play as too dangerous and competitive?

P.J. O'Rourke has the first two rules of democracy as 1. Mind your own business and 2. Keep your hands to yourself.

Good thoughts, but we will never tame the Federal giant in any way that makes that America possible again.

Carol_Herman said...

First of all, how much this costs is EVERYTHING! That's why it's "convenience" over all other options.

The cafeteria staff feeds more than a thousand kids, usually. And, all at once.

Sending kids to school for their full days. Where it's not safe to dismiss them at 3PM. Because the streets aren't safe! Kids just can't go off and play in their neighborhoods, all on their own!

If you want the kids managed the way prisons are managed, then you just need to give them balony on white bread. Sans condiments.

The media did, at one time, get Ronald Reagan to call Ketchup a vegetable. And, if you think about it, he was right. A little packet of tomato sauce that kids actually eat. Add a container of boiling water, and they could make soup.

The reality is that to run school cafeterias, we allowed the unions to get involved. And, they support the staff who are paid well.

No local Chinese restaurant pays their staff quite as richly.

Yes, Chinese food supplies rice and vegetables. And, ALL their vegetables are fresh.

Too bad we can't farm out those lunch hours like offices do. Where you go out for lunch. You do this spending less money than is spent on kids going to school.

Whastever happened to moms supplying lunch bags?

mesquito said...

"growing public backlash" = one story on "Morning Edition" + FLOTUS

The Drill SGT said...

"Guidelines"

Such a nice friendly word for government interference, regulations, investigations and lawsuits.

Pogo said...

Fascism; it's what's for breakfast.

AJ Lynch said...

"Growing public backlash" is today's anecdotal but evidence-free librul soundbite. I think yesterday's was "slashing and cutting social programs" in that OWS post.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

First they came for Captain Crunch, and I did nothing...

Curious George said...

"mesquito said...
Dear America:

Your spawn are fat because you keep them indoors and bored, venturing out for over-organized activities, shopping and eating. Try kicking the fat little bastards out of the house in the morning and letting them fend for themselves the balance of the day."

This. Hell I'm 54 and we had all the sugary food. It was marketed like today. Problem is that the government can't regulate "play"...but I'm sure they will try.

Pogo said...

Orwell foretold this years ago.

You no longer own your life; the State does. You cannot be trusted what to put in your own mouth.

The commerce clause says they can do whatever the hell they want to you.

It's going to get worse and worse, thanks to the 70 year collusion between leftist Democrats and RINOs.

Calypso Facto said...

I'm much more concerned about government's marketing to kids under 12 than cereal makers'.

Kit said...

First they came for Captain Crunch, and I did nothing...

Funny, this. We're empty-nesters and I put this on today's grocery list (along with some whole-grain/flax seed oatmeal). Balance and moderation...

edutcher said...

As Shout quotes, "A growing public backlash against marketing sugar-heavy food to children has the federal government putting extraordinary new pressure on the nation's cerealmakers and other food companies".

I thought that was all done 20 years ago. It's why they're no longer called, "Sugar Corn Pops".

But now kids' food will cost more.

Thank you, Moochelle.

gutless said...

Several years ago I met my first Food Facist. It was at a business meeting in San Francisco. The group included an array of backgrounds incluging a school cafeteria manager who insisted on being called a Food Service Professional. I thought these folks were a little comical. I was wrong. There is nothing funny about these totalitarians.

PatCA said...

I noted as others did the phony "growing public backlash."

The only "backlash" is from Michelle O and her leftist do-gooder fascist friends.

The FDA is going to be the only employer left one day. On the plus side, except for debt necessary to hire people, this program and their 10-year effort to "change the palate" of Americans will put every unemployed in the US to work harassing foodmakers.

Chip Ahoy said...

I bought a box of Capt'n Crunch and a box of Froot Loops to recall their sugary goodness and relive fond childhood memory -- to see again for myself.

They were both ghastly. The most over-the-top super-saturated saccharine crap I ever tasted. Sugary as straight up sugar candy except worse because they're faster. They are bad bad bad. Nutritional hoaxes perpetrated against a trusting and unsuspecting public. One single taste from each box and both boxes were thrown away. The products cannot be redeemed.

PETER V. BELLA said...

You would thin the feds have more important things to do...

Never mind.

Alex said...
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Alex said...

Translation - parents can't be arsed to police their own kids, so Obama has to.

ndspinelli said...

Curious, The govt. does indeed regulate play. You should see the rules for school playgrounds. The rules are created by a toxic mix of hovering female teachers and the insanity of our civil lawsuit culture. No tag, no dodgeball, no touching of any sort. Boys on a schoolyard are now just girls w/ pants.

Keystone said...

It's always "for the children." Who could object to that?

EDH said...

Seems like this is more about control of the media rather than child nutritian.

Has eating too much of the wrong kind of cereal ever been a serious source of dietary imbalance in children?

The U.S. Department of Agriculture's most recent dietary guidelines point to added sugar in food as a potential path to obesity -- and to breakfast cereal as a "major" source of the sweet stuff.

Still, soda pop along with energy and sports drinks are much bigger sources of added sugar in the American diet than cereal, the USDA report said. And among kids and teens, desserts, pizza and soda are the largest sources of calories; cereal ranked 10th.

General Mills and the nation's other cereal titan, Michigan-based Kellogg Co., say cereal is getting a bad rap. "If the issue is obesity, we should be advertising more cereal to kids, not less," Forsythe said.

Shouting Thomas said...

They were both ghastly. The most over-the-top super-saturated saccharine crap I ever tasted. Sugary as straight up sugar candy except worse because they're faster. They are bad bad bad. Nutritional hoaxes perpetrated against a trusting and unsuspecting public. One single taste from each box and both boxes were thrown away. The products cannot be redeemed.

Gotta agree with you on that.

Back when I lived in San Francisco, I became a follower of Adele Davis, who was the queen of whole grains and whole foods.

Yes, good nutrition will change your life, both aesthetically and in terms of health.

But, learning that is the responsibility of the individual. And, the government doesn't have the magic wand to enforce that knowledge.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Tyrone Slothrop said...

First they came for Captain Crunch, and I did nothing...


I've never quoted myself before, but in this case I simply had to respond. "Tyrone Slothrop" is making a joke out of a subject that is deadly serious, and he should be ashamed of himself. We have to defend Captain Crunch, and the Trix rabbit and that stupid toucan. We are experiencing a phenomenon unique to this era, the soft fascism of the nanny state. Any restriction on our freedom can be justified if the well-being of children, racial minorities, gays, women, or any of a myriad of interest groups can be "protected" by surrendering more of it. By legislating good behavior the state absolves us of being good people. Once the state starts mandating what cereals may contain, parents can just ditch one more responsibility. Eventually we all become children.

Conserve Liberty said...

@Chip Ahoy:

I bought a box of Capt'n Crunch and a box of Froot Loops to recall their sugary goodness and relive fond childhood memory -- to see again for myself.

They were both ghastly. The most over-the-top super-saturated saccharine crap I ever tasted. Sugary as straight up sugar candy except worse because they're faster. They are bad bad bad. Nutritional hoaxes perpetrated against a trusting and unsuspecting public. One single taste from each box and both boxes were thrown away. The products cannot be redeemed.


I expected you to write you had bought a bag of soft coookies.

Conserve Liberty said...

My three children, two girls and a boy, have all always had a Body Mass Index within the median.

We eat ALL our meals, together, at the dining room table, on china and with silverware; we talk to each other while we eat; we spend 15 - 45 minutes at a meal (breakfast is shorter, dinner longer); we clean up and do dishes together.

We send a home-prepared school lunch in a bag (and have had the school dietitian call to offer advice on "better" choices - we told her to, in so many words, "bugger off").

You get the picture - the Cleavers weren't so wrong after all. It CAN be done. We just need to WANT to do it.

E.M. Davis said...

I had to put my son on a diet to gain weight.

This childhood obesity thing is completely foreign to me.

Neither of my kids are the vegetative types.

Allie's Apple said...

You would thin the feds have more important things to do...

Never mind.

11/6/11 10:05 AM
I agree, there are much bigger fish to fry. Parents are responsible for what foods come into their home and what gets served to their kids.

glenn said...

First they came for the Foie Gras but I didn't eat Foie Gras so..... you all know the words ... all together now.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

@Shouting Thomas

From Wikipedia

Although (Adele Davis) was very popular with the public in general in the 1970s, none of her books were recommended by any significant nutritional professional society of the time. Independent review of the superficially impressive large number of citations to the scientific literature in her books found that the citations often either misquoted the scientific literature or was contradicted by or unsupported by the proposed citation, and that errors in the book averaged at least one per page.[5] One review noted that only 30 of 170 citations in a sample taken from one chapter accurately supported the assertions in her book.[2] Additionally, the 1969 White House Conference on Food, Nutrition, and Health labelled her probably the single most harmful source of false nutritional information.[1]

One of her recommendations was to give nephrosis victims large doses of potassium. As a sufferer of renal disease myself, my potassium intake is severely restricted. If I don't watch it, it will kill me. She sounds like one prophet who should have been left out in the desert.

Methadras said...

And what part of the government infesting its tentacles into every aspect of every american was I wrong about?

Alex said...

And what part of the government infesting its tentacles into every aspect of every american was I wrong about?

Given that 70% of Americans are overweight and 40% are obese, haven't people failed to such an extent that government intervention is required if we want to save the nation? Culturally something seriously broken in America that has caused this obesity crisis. You don't see this in Asian countries(Japan, South Korea, China) because those cultures emphasize moderate eating and lots of walking.

MayBee said...

Calypso:I'm much more concerned about government's marketing to kids under 12 than cereal makers'.

Amen!

MayBee said...

I hope the next first lady finds no need to take up any kind of cause.

Why do people want to hear from the woman married to the president? Steve Jobs didn't haul his wife out on the stage to sell his new products.

ironrailsironweights said...

Ah, for the old days of innocence ... when cereals proclaimed their sugary sweetness.

Peter

PETER V. BELLA said...

This is just abuse of power on steroids. Plus, the companies will find away around this nonsense.

If kids are obese then it is the parents fault for buying crap food. What next, regulate parent hood?

Oh, I am sorry I said that. It may be next under this admin.

ironrailsironweights said...

Try kicking the fat little bastards out of the house in the morning and letting them fend for themselves the balance of the day.

But then they are certain - CERTAIN! - to be brutally ass raped by drooling ten-inch child molestors.

[side note: the captcha word was an actual word, "diagram"]

Peter

Curious George said...

"ndspinelli said...
Curious, The govt. does indeed regulate play. You should see the rules for school playgrounds. The rules are created by a toxic mix of hovering female teachers and the insanity of our civil lawsuit culture. No tag, no dodgeball, no touching of any sort. Boys on a schoolyard are now just girls w/ pants."

Well, that's paly in school. I'm talking just kids playing. Go by a park, empty. Sandlot baseball, a thing of the past. When I was a kid we went out after breakfast, and played to lunch. AFter lunch, played til dinner. After dinner, played to my dad whistled (you could hear it for miles!) or my mom rang a bell.

sorepaw said...
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MadisonMan said...

Job program for a bureaucrat. If she or he wasn't hectoring the Cereal Companies (I agree -- where is the push to get parents to [1] buy their kids healthy food or [2] shut off the TV so they don't see the ads), what would the lonely bureaucrat be doing?

MadisonMan said...

I hope the next first lady finds no need to take up any kind of cause.

How about the cause of getting the Govt out of people's lives?

Allie's Apple said...

Genetics plays a huge part in obesity of kids and adults. Eating packaged foods as opposed to whole foods also leads to overconsumption. Fruit, vegetables, dairy and meat are damn expensive and often the poor can't afford them, hence higher rate of obesity among kids living in poverty.

Also wheat products, anything that contains Glutens has been shown to be detrimental to many peoples health. Our modern wheat is genetically very different from ancient wheat and scientists are beginning to see how this Frankenstein wheat has harmed us. A book worth reading,"Wheat Belly" by Dr. William Davis, a Milwaukee cardiologist.

Alex said...

How about the cause of getting the Govt out of people's lives?

Especially when most people have proven they can't lead responsible lives? Between poor health decisions and staggering debt, most Americans have proven they aren't real adults.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Alex said...

How about the cause of getting the Govt out of people's lives?

Especially when most people have proven they can't lead responsible lives? Between poor health decisions and staggering debt, most Americans have proven they aren't real adults.


And your expertise in what constitutes responsible behavior consists in...what? If I get a majority to declare your lifestyle irresponsible, am I justified in making it illegal? Why, then, are we permitting gay men to have sex? With the high likelihood of the transmission of HIV, that seems like very irresponsible behavior. Smoking pot has serious negative health consequences-- why should it be permitted? Mountain climbing, hang gliding, auto racing, skydiving, deep sea fishing, hitchhiking, military service all are extremely dangerous and should be banned, shouldn't they?

Alex said...

The difference between obese couch potatoes and people who engage in high-risk sports is night & day. At the very least those extreme sports people inspire others to achieve greatness. Couch potatoes inspire what?

ndspinelli said...

Curious, Here's the problem w/ your reasoning. Too few kids play on their own. It's a combo of video games, tv, and hovering parents controlling all their activities. Not only do kids miss out on fun unregulated play in the neighborhood. They miss out on important organizational and leadership skills of putting together kids to play football, baseball, etc. So..all they got is school and there you got the nannies.

Shanna said...

Chip, Peanut Butter Captain crunch is awesome, I don't care what you say! And it actually seems to have less sugar than a lot of the other cereals.

Fruit, vegetables, dairy and meat are damn expensive and often the poor can't afford them, hence higher rate of obesity among kids living in poverty

People who say this have clearly not priced convenience/packaged foods (cokes, chips, cookies etc.) versus fresh or frozen veggies/fruits/meat lately. Chips are expensive, banana's are cheap. Real food fills you up better than fake food, so you don't need as much of it. I think this argument is bunk.

Sally Bennett said...

Curious George, some of us actual girls with pants (the ones who used to be called tomboys) gave the boys a run for their money in the rough sports on the playground, in the good old days before monitors. Tag and dodgeball were for sissies. We played tackle football. Of course, this was also before feminism took over the public education system and made it a goal to emasculate the boys.

"No tag, no dodgeball, no touching of any sort. Boys on a schoolyard are now just girls w/ pants."

Sally Bennett said...

Sorry, Curious, I quoted ndspinelli but attributed the quotation to you. I wanted to make clear that I agree, unsupervised play will do more to reduce childhood obesity and produce competent independent young people than any nanny state intervention will.

Alex said...

I wanted to make clear that I agree, unsupervised play will do more to reduce childhood obesity and produce competent independent young people than any nanny state intervention will.

In today's child predator age, this is an impossibility and the statistic back it up. Ask yourself why there was no need for an Amber alert in 1970.

Shouting Thomas said...

Tyrone Slothrop,

I bought Adele Davis' cookbooks. A couple of them are really good. I use some of those recipes to this day.

I never was much into her guru thing.

Yes, she quite often veered into the kook territory.

Even kooks can be right about some things.

Shouting Thomas said...

And, I use Adele Davis' recipes because (1) they taste good, and (2) make me feel good.

You should try her whole wheat, wheat germ pancakes with walnuts and maple syrup.

My kids love them. My girlfriend, too.

Allie's Apple said...

Packaged foods are far cheaper than whole foods, one can fill up on Mac and cheese , rice a roni, hot dogs, baloney, etc much less cheaply than it would cost to buy a chicken , vegetables, frozen or fresh and fruit.

If you live in the country and have access to cheap farmers market goods or have a garden and can your own it can be cheap, but grocery store bought produce , meat and dairy are not cheaper than packaged foods.

I don't know where you shop Shanna, but that is the way it is here in the Midwest and we are surrounded by farms.

Shouting Thomas said...

Here's Adele Davis' whole wheat, wheat germ pancake recipe in rough fashion

(1) one cup whole wheat flour sifted
(2) one/half cup fresh wheat germ
(3) one/half cup dry milk powder
(4) 1 tablespoon vegetable oil
(5) 1/2 teaspoon baking powder
(6) 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon
(7) one egg (two if you prefer a cakier batter)
(8) salt to taste
(9) raw whole milk (add until batter is proper consistency, about 1/2 to 1 cup)
(10) whatever amount of chopped walnuts you like

Pre-heat cast iron skillet. Brush with vegetable oil. Cook slowly so that inside of pancake becomes solid.

Serve with real butter and real maple syrup. Bananas are a good addition. Or stawberries. Or whatever.

Allie's Apple said...

I wanted to make clear that I agree, unsupervised play will do more to reduce childhood obesity and produce competent independent young people than any nanny state intervention will.
---------------------------------------------
In today's child predator age, this is an impossibility and the statistic back it up. Ask yourself why there was no need for an Amber alert in 1970.

11/6/11 11:29 AM
----------------------------------------------
Exactly right. Kids need to have the parents still keep an eye out for them, even if just out the kitchen window. My Grandkids live in a very exclusive subdivision in a very affluent area. Last year there was a child predator driving his car into the driveways of houses in which kids were playing in front or side yards,and trying to lure kids into it.

Tim said...

"I agree, there are much bigger fish to fry. Parents are responsible for what foods come into their home and what gets served to their kids."

and:

"How about the cause of getting the Govt out of people's lives?"

It it is the permanent coalition of voters who consistently trade personal liberty for government security, that comprises the base of the Democrat Party, that not only makes this shit possible, but predictably inevitable.

The moral hazard of voting Democrat is that while one may not agree with all the government expansions of power at the expense of the people's liberty and earnings, or even most of it, doing so green-lights all their programs, no matter how little sense they make, how much they erode personal liberty or responsibility, or how ineffective they prove to be.

America's past, which gifted all of us this great treasure of liberty, stands in direct contrast to its present, and most very likely its future. It's a legacy that requires protecting; instead, we get the ceaseless soft fascism of the liberals, hellbent on destroying the legacy in the name of advancing it.

Pity that, although undoubtedly too many disagree.

Chip Ahoy said...

Peanut butter Capt'n Crunch?

))) bang ! (((

Ugh, ya got me.

Alex said...

Even if a kid has a bigger chance of dying due to car accident, drowning, allergy, choking a parent's worst nightmare is what a child predator would do. That's why parents are so vigilant these days and I can't understand those of you who are pushing for letting kids play unsupervised. You must live in some super isolated rural community where everyone knows everyone else. But the suburbs are just dangerous.

Shouting Thomas said...

I left out this instruction to the recipe.

Combine all the dry stuff and mix it up.

Add the wet stuff and mix it up.

That's it!

ndspinelli said...

Alex, There have ALWAYS been predators. It's just MUCH mpre publicized now.

Kids can be safe. You teach them there is strength in numbers. Being solo is unacceptable. Two is a "C" grade. 3-4 is a "B" grade and 5 or more an "A". You teach kids that if they're alone and afraid to look for a mom. Not a cop, a mom. A mom will protect the kid until they're safe. Good chance a cop is @ Krispy Kreme. You tell kids, particularly girls the goal is too make a lot of noise and bite, kick, gouge and scream and fight to the death before being dragged into a car. Because if they are driven off in a car, they're as good as dead. Jump out if they speed gets down to 10-15mph.

You teach them self defense. You teach them how to assess people. You can't be there all the time although you sound like a hovering parent who tries. Empower kids to take care of themselves. THAT is the most solemn duty of every parent.

Joe said...

"A growing public backlash against..."

No, there is an increased boldness of people who are satisfied only if they are controlling other people's lives and/or are jealous if anyone else has something they don't.

The list of "unhealthy" food has reached the point where we'd all starve if we actually listened to these bullies. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have such a predilection for fascism and a government more than willing to go along (though, to be fair to those in charge, what government isn't more than willing?)

Tyrone Slothrop said...

@Shouting Thomas

Truth be told, I've always preferred whole grains, and I love my salads and vegetables. I also like all varieties of meat, and butter rules. Balance is good. I guess what bothers me is approaching diet like some people approach religion. It's all based on a deep human need to have the goods while your benighted fellow humans wander in ignorance.

Alex said...

Kids can be safe. You teach them there is strength in numbers. Being solo is unacceptable. Two is a "C" grade. 3-4 is a "B" grade and 5 or more an "A". You teach kids that if they're alone and afraid to look for a mom. Not a cop, a mom. A mom will protect the kid until they're safe. Good chance a cop is @ Krispy Kreme. You tell kids, particularly girls the goal is too make a lot of noise and bite, kick, gouge and scream and fight to the death before being dragged into a car. Because if they are driven off in a car, they're as good as dead. Jump out if they speed gets down to 10-15mph.

You teach them self defense. You teach them how to assess people. You can't be there all the time although you sound like a hovering parent who tries. Empower kids to take care of themselves. THAT is the most solemn duty of every parent.


Kids never had to be so evolved in terms of self-defense against predators. It's ridiculous.

Allie's Apple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

The list of "unhealthy" food has reached the point where we'd all starve if we actually listened to these bullies.

That's just a lame excuse to justify devouring a mega Big Mac or a whole pizza. Keep up the excuses for why you're fat.

Alex said...

Agreed that coddling is of no use in terms of protecting against predators, but why is a kid playing by himself in a front yard anyways? Something is wrong with that picture.

Allie's Apple said...

Ndspinelli, what about the lone kid playing in his own front yard? The guy in my Grandkids subdivision was driving right onto their own driveways. Luckily either the parents saw this and ran out, or the kids themselves came running and screaming into their houses.

I agree the kids need to be taught about how they should remain safe and that there ARE bad people in this world that may want to harm them. Coddling and overprotection though,won't help our kids grow up strong and confident.

Allie's Apple said...

Alex, you never ran out into your own front yRd on the spur of the moment, when you were bored and no other kids were home? In many instances there was more than just a lone kid as the predator drove onto the driveways.

Psychedelic George said...

Our government that must be put on a diet, not its citizens.

E.M. Davis said...

Agreed that coddling is of no use in terms of protecting against predators, but why is a kid playing by himself in a front yard anyways? Something is wrong with that picture.

I often played in the front yard by myself (I guess I lived in a rural enough place it wasn't a big deal) in a 'neighborhood' where there were no kids my age.

E.M. Davis said...

Kids never had to be so evolved in terms of self-defense against predators. It's ridiculous.

And yet, have the number of predators increased over the years, or just the sensationalized coverage of their crimes?

ndspinelli said...

Alex, It sucks I know! But you can't project your fear on kids. It's unhealthy and counterproductive. Empower them and have a little faith and less fear. I know better than most the scum out there. But, I chose to teach my kids safe habits and let them live. Shit man..I worried. But, I didn't project that unproductive emotion on my kids. And my kids were quite different. My son could have used more worry..my daughter less. It's a common boy/girl dynamic.

E.M. Davis said...

Fruit, vegetables, dairy and meat are damn expensive and often the poor can't afford them, hence higher rate of obesity among kids living in poverty

Shanna is correct. The "cheapness" of manufactured foods is a fallacy.

Shouting Thomas said...

If you live in the country and have access to cheap farmers market goods or have a garden and can your own it can be cheap, but grocery store bought produce , meat and dairy are not cheaper than packaged foods.

I don't know where you shop Shanna, but that is the way it is here in the Midwest and we are surrounded by farms.


If you live in the Midwest, you've got two feet of black topsoil in your back yard.

I live in the Catskills and I have a 15' X 40' garden. I produce so much food, I can't possibly eat it all. If I were really into canning and preserving, I could produce a very substantial percentage of my food year round.

It's not that much work either.

Get busy, Allie.

n.n said...

If they are right, then either people do not have freewill or are incapable of discernment. This is either a condemnation of humanity or our education system. It is ostensibly a manufactured outcome.

Conserve Liberty said...

Alex said...

How about the cause of getting the Govt out of people's lives?

Especially when most people have proven they can't lead responsible lives? Between poor health decisions and staggering debt, most Americans have proven they aren't real adults.


and Tyrone Slothrop replied.

Did you know the most dangerous acts in the home is climbing stairs? Climbing stairs results in the largest number of home based injuries resulting in a visit to the emergency room.

I therefore demand, since selfish citizens clearly are unable to safely and properly use stairs, that before each use of stairs a user obtain a Federal Stair Use Permit, whose issuance shall not be consummated by the requisite Federal Department of Safe Home Use until such time as the applicant has completed a federally Certified Stair Use Education Program to last no less than 10 hours of instruction, and has passed with a score of 70% or higher, a Federal Stair Use Proficiency Examination.

Now lest you think we can trust any person to then use stairs effectively and safely, since citizens are wont to consume alcohol, stay up too late watching television, abuse prescription medications, age beyond capacity to safely use stairs and generally act in a fashion demonstrating complete inability to make good choices and take proper care of themselves and their bodies, such Stair Use Permit must be applied for and issued BEFORE EACH USE OF STAIRS IN THE HOME.

Such permit shall be required without regard to the presence of actual multiple stories on a home, or actual stairs, in the awareness that even single-storey homes may have a front stoop of at least one stair tread.

It is only fair, after all, to those of us who DO use stairs safely that everyone else should also be certified to use them.

Allie's Apple said...
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Lem said...

I haven't read the article.. (I'm busy doing my laundry).
But for those of you who have.. Does it mention how much the industry contributes to both political parties?

Do the contributions lean to one side?

Allie's Apple said...

My dear Shouting, I do have a garden, I used to can a lot but now give away a great deal to my kids and neighbors. My house has a lake in front of it and in the back of all the yards is a nature preserve, so we get some great produce with no farm runoff in the soil or lake.My row of raspberries are finally mature and it's heaven to go out early in the morning to pick some fresh for my yogurt. Watch out for the little green worms though.

Shanna said...
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Shanna said...
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Shouting Thomas said...

My dear Shouting, I do have a garden, I used to can a lot but now give away a great deal to my kids and neighbors. My house has a lake in front of it and in the back of all the yards is a nature preserve, so we get some great produce with no farm runoff in the soil or lake.My row of raspberries are finally mature and it's heaven to go out early in the morning to pick some fresh for my yogurt. Watch out for the little green worms though.

OK, Allie, I take it all back. House, lake, RN, garden.

If the tits are OK, and still in their original position (that is above the belly button), let's get married.

But, I have to warn you, I'm retiring on a fixed budget.

Shanna said...

Man, I had my whole post written and accidentally deleted it.

Allie, it's so much easier to shop cheapyly when you buy ingredients rather than packaged foods, you just have to know how to shop.

Rice+beans (even with a sausage or two for flavor) will feed you for a week far cheaper than hot dogs and chips. Buy chicken breasts (or cheaper thighs) with skin and a bag of frozen veggies and you'll have a soup which will again, feed you cheap for a week.

Avoid the organic out of season fruit and stick to what is on sale or in season, frozen veggies are a dollar a bag at kroger, meat goes on sale and if used to flavor a meal rather than as the only ingredient is quite cheap per serving. Sure, you can make shopping for ingredients expensive (and I buy the raw milk cheese that 6 bucks a pound sometimes becuase it's awesome, but it isn't strictly necessary for nutrition and if I'm pressed for cash it lifts right out) but they don't have to be.

You'll also be amazed how much money you save if you don't buy soda, juice or (much) milk. I drink mostly water and tea.

Shouting Thomas said...

In fact, you might say I'm retiring on a Low Budget.

Allie's Apple said...

OK, Allie, I take it all back. House, lake, RN, garden.

If the tits are OK, and still in their original position (that is above the belly button), let's get married.

But, I have to warn you, I'm retiring on a fixed budget.

11/6/11 12:42 PM

Shouting, my er Bosoms are just fine thank you. But alas , we would kill each other in the first week.

Shouting Thomas said...

Shouting, my er Bosoms are just fine thank you. But alas , we would kill each other in the first week.

A good rack can overcome a lot of things, Allie.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Alex said...

The difference between obese couch potatoes and people who engage in high-risk sports is night & day. At the very least those extreme sports people inspire others to achieve greatness. Couch potatoes inspire what?


What about gay sex? Care to address that? Do you believe some people should be permitted to be irresponsible because of how they identify? Do you hold that homosexuality is inspirational? If so, why is it more inspirational than heterosexuality?

Allie's Apple said...

Shanna, I don't buy ANY packaged food, I even make my own yogurt, much cheaper. Maybe programs to teach the disadvantaged how to shop and eat cheaply and healthy isn't such a bad thing a after all, huh?

Allie's Apple said...

Shouting, well I don't know how James Carvil and Mary Matalin do it. BUT I did nurse four kids , so my bosoms may not be up to your specifications, yet they do remain above my waist.

ironrailsironweights said...

If the tits are OK, and still in their original position (that is above the belly button), let's get married.

Those are important considerations, but my main standard would involve something else.

Peter

JAL said...

From STrib: She supports anything that would make the products those ads promote healthier, whether the change is driven by the government or the industry.

Whenever I see someone saying they would support "anything" that would ... blah blah blah {usually a nice goal} I blanche.

Be careful what you wish for, mom.

JAL said...

A growing public backlash against marketing sugar-heavy food to children has the federal government putting extraordinary new pressure on the nation's cerealmakers and other food companies.

Do. Not. Buy. It.

Easy.

Sorun said...

Maybe programs to teach the disadvantaged how to shop and eat cheaply and healthy isn't such a bad thing a after all, huh?

Who are the "disadvantaged?" Blind people? Deaf? Handicapped? Gay? What?

What characteristics makes someone so "disadvantaged" that they need the government to teach them how to buy some groceries?

JAL said...

In today's child predator age, this is an impossibility and the statistic back it up. Ask yourself why there was no need for an Amber alert in 1970.

Have the numbers actually changed? Or has our culture changed?

If a kid disappeared in Charlotte years ago -- who would have known outside of Charlotte?

How many TV shows (real and fiction) featured serial killers years ago? Because there were none?

I wonder, per capita, what the change is, if there is one.

Allie's Apple said...

Maybe programs to teach the disadvantaged how to shop and eat cheaply and healthy isn't such a bad thing a after all, huh?
---------------------------------------------
Who are the "disadvantaged?" Blind people? Deaf? Handicapped? Gay? What?

What characteristics makes someone so "disadvantaged" that they need the government to teach them how to buy some groceries?
---------------------------------------------
Living in poverty in an economy in which education and jobs are increasingly more difficult to come by. Having brain damage from being a crack baby or a lead soaked brain. Being an abused child of abused parents. etc etc.

Cedarford said...

Nanny State nutrition Nazis.

The meddlers cannot help themselves. There is always a new cause, a need for thousands of new Federal and State Government people to regulate and monitor:

1. Fast food
2. Shocking!! things sold in supermarkets.
3. Unlicensed kiddie lemonaide stands.

The argument is that certain sectors of society are too stupid to know how to do "proper nutrition" so it falls on The Schools, the Hero Teachers & cafeteria union workforce....and the people that should have the power to dictate fast food menus and what is on store shelves..To have the POWER to save the ignorant - from themselves. Only they can fight the "minority obesity epidemic" - which of course replaced the "starving minority child epidemic" of a few years back that emplaced expensive school breakfast programs.

Would it help to limit what items food stamps can purchase, like barring fat cakes, sugar or high corn fructose soda and cereal, onion rings? Like you cannot use food stamps to buy alcohol (at least theoretically)?
No, apparantly restrictions on food stamp use never crossed the Dem's minds. Because it would single out the needy, when it is society that needs transforming....

Of course the idiots fail to note the Federal and State governments have higher duties they are failing at, and we now lack the resources and money to do even the higher obligations well.

Could be a good issue for Republicans - the theory that an organization like government is already failing by taking on too many things - and is poised to take on more things that are properly matters of individual and family responsibility.

knox said...

Packaged foods are far cheaper than whole foods, one can fill up on Mac and cheese , rice a roni, hot dogs, baloney, etc much less cheaply than it would cost to buy a chicken , vegetables, frozen or fresh and fruit.

Patently false. I hear this all the time and it's simply not accurate. Not even close.

knox said...

Shanna, you're right about chicken. I like to buy a whole chicken (easily found for 99 cents a pound, sometimes less), roast it, use the meat for 2 different meals, then boil the carcass for stock... which can be used for soup or any recipe requiring chicken broth.

Allie's Apple said...

YES Cedarford! Limit what can be purchased on food stamps, make sure its healthy whole foods, that would mean more government involvement though, would it not?

Let the grocery store chains have a list of foods that have been put on the list of foods that may be purchased by food stamps.

Sorun said...

Allie: The only characteristic you list that might mean someone is too stupid to know how to buy groceries is crack baby. Child obesity is not due to crack babies.

Here's an efficient and fair way to teach the "disadvantaged" how to buy groceries: Limit food stamp purchases to basic foods -- fruit, veggies, meat, dairy, rice, beans, etc.

blake said...

Apparently 12 years of government education makes one "disadvantaged".

And the only cure is—you guessed it!—more government education! (Also, the liberal application of the government's purifying force to the free market.)

Allie's Apple said...

Knox said;
Shanna, you're right about chicken. I like to buy a whole chicken (easily found for 99 cents a pound, sometimes less), roast it, use the meat for 2 different meals, then boil the carcass for stock... which can be used for soup or any recipe requiring chicken broth.

11/6/11 2:39 PM
I've taught my grown kids to do the same, they can well afford good healthy food, but waste is abhorrent. Turkey carcass soup is our favorite.

Allie's Apple said...

Allie: The only characteristic you list that might mean someone is too stupid to know how to buy groceries is crack baby. Child obesity is not due to crack babies.

Here's an efficient and fair way to teach the "disadvantaged" how to buy groceries: Limit food stamp purchases to basic foods -- fruit, veggies, meat, dairy, rice, beans, etc.

11/6/11 2:42 PM
YES Sorun ! I totally agree.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

it's so much easier to shop cheapyly when you buy ingredients rather than packaged foods, you just have to know how to shop.

And you also need to know how to cook. Many people don't and find that it is easier/less work/less challenging to use pre packaged fast food.

If you can cook and now how to shop you can eat well and eat healthy.

What characteristics makes someone so "disadvantaged" that they need the government to teach them how to buy some groceries?

There have been several generations of people raised by parents who have no idea how to cook, shop, budget. This doesn't JUST go for the lower income strata, but also for some affluent and even professional people.

They just don't know how. No one showed them and they took the easy way out and ate out at restaurants or used fast foods from the grocery store.

It used to be a standard part of school curriculum to teach Home Economics. I guess that has gone by the wayside for the last 30 years.

gutless said...

I just tucked into a heaping bowl of Count Chocula cereal with a cup of half and half and extra sugar. Take that all food totalitarians.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Know how....not now how.

Having just returned from our bi-monthly marathon shopping trip to the 'big city' we are very cognizant of what we are buying and how it will fit into the meal plans for the next several months. For daily shopping (milk, eggs, fresh vegetables) we do have a local grocery. However, to save money in the long haul we buy in bulk; vacuum seal and freeze the meats and cheeses.

Poor people who don't have the resources often can't take advantage of these techniques. We have multiple freezers and refrigerators. Lots of storage in a moderate temperature controlled building. You have to be creative about these things when you live in a small apartment.

When I questioned the food pantry ladies about why they didn't offer more fresh meats, fruits, vegetables and raw ingredients, she informed me that many of the people didn't even have refrigerators or cooking stoves or equipment to cook the items, so the pre packaged, ready to eat or canned goods were what they wanted AND what they could actually use.

JAL said...

1. @AllieAp Packaged foods are far cheaper than whole foods, one can fill up on Mac and cheese , rice a roni, hot dogs, baloney, etc much less cheaply than it would cost to buy a chicken , vegetables, frozen or fresh and fruit.

Fail.

"Real" food is cheaper than prepared packaged food, generally speaking.

Whole chickens are cheaper than hot dogs (which can be nice, actually). As someone pointed out, frozen and canned veggies are not expensive if one stays away from the perfecto brands.

If you don't shop organic, Whole Foods, Earth Fare or whatever ---.

Look, I *grew up* in a lower middle class family and I told my mother one year if we ate chicken one more time we would grow feathers. But I didn't die, I was never obese. And I ended up feeding my kids chicken and other inexpensive protein when we went through tough times.

When my kids were growing up we did not buy potato chips except very rarely (when we cooked out in the yard). We did not eat ice cream unless we were celebrating a birthday. We did not drink soda (tonic, pop, whatever).

Growing up we did not eat packaged name brand cereal. Instead it was oatmeal, shredded wheat, rice and maybe cornflakes. Growing up we did buy whole milk by the crate because my brother could drink a gallon a day. He was not obese.

2. As for the mother who talked about being nagged? Here's an idea: Grow some.

Nagging was not an option with my kids.

3. As for TV -- forget the Saturday AM cartoons. We limited TV when the kids were little. What my kids might have *preferred* even with their limited exposure, did not determine what they were *fed.*

4. As for the government controlling choices -- apparently whole milk and 2% are evil, as are flavored 1% and skim. So the kids are served milk they throw out. If the parents ease them into it at home if they feel that uis necessary --- fine.

As I left a park this past summer after a group of kids on an organized outing left I looked into the trash and there were literally gallons worth of unopened 1/2 pint milk cartons tossed in the trash. Multiply that by the tens of thousands of schools and other sites. I guess it's more important to be RIGHT than practical for the Nannies.

5. If they reduce the sugar past a certain point have they not figured out these people own sugar bowls and spoons? The kids will sugar it themselves, unless the parents are in charge at the house.

6. I have a grandson and daughter both of who are thin as babies. My doctor daughter seeks out high fat yogurts (baby crack, she calls it) to help put the calories in --- The push to eliminate fat ignores the data which suggests we are taking in way too many carbs, and not just as sugar. That plus the TV and video games and fear and cultural shifts keep our kids from moving and keeping the fat off.

6. Economics do help control the market -- Have you ever thought about the price per lb. of the killer cereals or even normal potato chips? One could buy sirloin and t-bones. That should slow a mother down.

If that were publicized a little more there might be some more self selection based on sensible economics.

I can't recall if Michelle was mentioned, but I truly do think that woman should get out of our personal lives. Lady Bird beautified the roads, Laura wanted kids to read.

Michelle and her ilk want us to stay out of their bedrooms while they spy out our refrigerators looking for what is becoming legal contrabrand and want our kids and grandkids to rat us out. (How long before they have Costco, Sam's and the local food store report our shopping habits?)

Sorun said...

...she informed me that many of the people didn't even have refrigerators or cooking stoves or equipment to cook the items.

Bullshit. Where do you think they keep their beer? Anybody can prepare basic foods. How in the hell do you think human species managed to survive to present day, in a world of 7 billion people.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Bullshit. Where do you think they keep their beer?

Ice chest or in a mesh sack in the river, which temperature is year round about 40 to 45 degrees.

Next question?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Ok I exaggerated the river probably gets up to 55 degrees in the summer.

Anybody can prepare basic foods

Actually, no they can't. They have never been shown how. Doesn't meant that they can't learn.

The childhood and adult obesity is caused by laziness. Lazy and don't want to cook. Too much work. Lazy and don't want to exercise. It is just too easy to be lazy.

Shanna said...

Limit food stamp purchases to basic foods -- fruit, veggies, meat, dairy, rice, beans, etc.

When my grandfather was a kid in the depression his uncle owned a store and they used to give poor people sacks of whole food (I guess this was the govt precursor to food stamps?). Anyway, he said the black families hated the grapefruits and would leave them at the store. He and his family ate tons of grapefruit when he was kid!

she informed me that many of the people didn't even have refrigerators or cooking stoves or equipment to cook the items.

I'm not sure how many people live like this, but I don't think it's the majority of the poor. (and that river thing wouldn't work at all where I live!) I don't know what you eat in that scenario but I guess you could do sandwiches and fruit cups. Which are still pretty cheap.

Allie, I have no problem with teaching people who to cook, but I think people who are interested will make the effort to learn. You can learn how to do just about anything on youtube now and there are awesome websites like http://cheaphealthygood.blogspot.com/ that will give you ideas. Libraries generaly have internet connections, for those who don't have them at home. What you can't do is force people who don't want to learn these things to do it, especially when they get food stamps that allow them to get unhealthy junk for free.

Allie's Apple said...

You may have a point there Shanna, if food stamp recipients can only buy healthy foods, they will learn how to cook them in a hurry.In my experience though, working with CNAs who were on my staff when I was still nursing, was that they were pretty darn good cooks. Many learned to make ethnic foods that used very cheap ingredients.

Cedarford said...

Allie's Apple said...
YES Cedarford! Limit what can be purchased on food stamps, make sure its healthy whole foods, that would mean more government involvement though, would it not?

Let the grocery store chains have a list of foods that have been put on the list of foods that may be purchased by food stamps
=========================
The food industry can readily code certain things as not to be purchased on food stamps as easily as they "kick out" other ineligible items in the store like makeup, beer, batteries.

We are paying for that welfare, and have already decided tax dollars should not go for buying 40 oz malt liquor bottles, cigarettes, etc.

I don't personally favor enhanced and expanded regulations...but if Democrats are concerned about the minority obesity epidemic..it stands to reason we should block tax dollars underwriting it before we listen to Dems saying that society-wide, Captain Crunch needs to be outlawed.

knox said...

many of the people didn't even have refrigerators or cooking stoves or equipment to cook the items.

??? Sounds apocryphal to me.

I did some design work for a food bank a few years ago, and they told us that packaged foods are preferred because children can prepare it... parents are often too busy with their drug habit to fix dinner. (Peanut Butter is about the best thing you can donate, according to them)

Indigo Red said...

I was a kid once. I ate Frosted Flakes because they were grrrreeeaaattt! I'd pour a bowl full, add some milk, then top it with about a quarter inch of sugar and my Dad would say, "Have some cereal with your sugar." I was anything but a fat kid or physically active and graduated college still under 100 pounds. In 34 yrs, I've only gained 59 pounds and still eating sugar.

Allie's Apple said...

Knox, yes some are out doing drugs,

But their parents are also working minimum wage jobs as CNAs etc, and often the kids are left to fend for themselves.Many of these Mom's kids were eligible for Badger Care (Medicaid) here in WI because their mothers earned so little.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

did some design work for a food bank a few years ago, and they told us that packaged foods are preferred because children can prepare it... parents are often too busy with their drug habit to fix dinner. (Peanut Butter is about the best thing you can donate, according to them)

There is this too. Especially this, more likely. Very sad.

The groups that go to the food pantry are either elderly who are on fixed incomes and hard times, are temporarily or seasonally unemployed with children or the young and worthless drug addled.

Our UI rate in this section of the county is well over 25% probably closer to 30% so they rely on the Churches and Food Pantry quite heavily. Many of those young and worthless are permanently going to be looking for handouts. They are on drugs, squatting on property or living in hovels that may not have electricity or have run out of propane. When winter comes, many of them move to warmer climates (thankfully and good riddance).

I have no idea just how many who frequent the food bank are living like this (the worthless dregs), but according to the ladies who man the facility, it is pretty high....especially in the summer.

Jack said...

Hillary said it takes a village to raise a child. Of course her "village" is concerned government regulators. She and the Dems are doing their best to take over child rearing from families. They really do think they know best. The statist political elites vs. the unwashed masses...

Allie's Apple said...

Jack said;
Hillary said it takes a village to raise a child. Of course her "village" is concerned government regulators. She and the Dems are doing their best to take over child rearing from families. They really do think they know best. The statist political elites vs. the unwashed masses...

11/6/11 4:37 PM
I thought the OWers were the unwashed masses.

JAL said...

Just for the record, the things one can buy ising food stamps are limited. Perhaps on a state by state level, and maybe they need to be more restricted.

It's the EBT card that is a bummer.... people can use them and get cash back on them in NC. Grrr. Heard a clerk in WalMart the other night muttering about it.

As for more government interference -- I'm okay with that in something like food stamps and EBT because that is definitely a government taxpayer funded handout.

But the same logic will apply to Obamacare and another thing which gets into our personal choices.

But the control is already there -- is this in violation of the first amendment? Jane G. Belford, Chancellor of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Washington testified to Congress the other day about the Obama "insurance mandate" saying the HHS exemption is so narrow that it only includes Catholic organizations that serve only Catholics.

“Under this test, archdiocesan Catholic organizations would be free to act in accord with Catholic teaching on life and procreation only if they were to stop hiring and serving non-Catholics,” he said. “However, following the example set forth by the parable of the Good Samaritan, these Catholic organizations serve people of all different faiths without question or condition.”

“HHS has drafted a religious exemption that is so narrow that it excludes virtually all Catholic hospitals, elementary and secondary schools, colleges and universities, and charitable organizations, none of which impose a litmus test on those they serve, as the HHS mandate would have them do,” he added.

themightypuck said...

If you can go after Camels why not Frosted Flakes? I personally think breakfast cereal should be outlawed on aesthetic grounds. Get ye to some bacon and eggs and pancakes and black, black coffee.

Methadras said...

Allie's Apple said...

My dear Shouting, I do have a garden, I used to can a lot but now give away a great deal to my kids and neighbors. My house has a lake in front of it and in the back of all the yards is a nature preserve, so we get some great produce with no farm runoff in the soil or lake.My row of raspberries are finally mature and it's heaven to go out early in the morning to pick some fresh for my yogurt. Watch out for the little green worms though.


If government found out that you are canning without proper methods of decontamination and are violating any numerable health and safety violations in your canning processes and are passing out potentially harmful foodstuffs without proper regulated supervision from the USDA, well, that makes you a civilly liable criminal. I'm reporting you right away.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

For many, government is their 'god'. Which is why we see so many straining to defend the nannyism.

These are the same that like to criticize Christians for not being 100% perfect.

Bottom line is we simply have too much government and too many willing to use public office as their career vehicle.

As citizens it is up to us to identify those that overstep their bounds under the protective umbrella of government and make sure they never get elected, or, are replaced the next election cycle.

Seeing Red said...

vegetables, dairy and meat are damn expensive and often the poor can't afford them, hence higher rate of obesity among kids living in poverty.


Earlier this year 1 of the poverty groups encouraged people to make meals charging the equivalent of
$7 pp I think per meal.

If you had 4 people, create a $28 dinner meal.

When you went shopping, you had a budget and couldn't use stuff you had at home like salt, pepper, spices, everything had to be bought - which didn't really make sense.....

Some of the comments were enlightening. They took this exercise to task. Because middle class people were already doing it and gave tips on how they did it.

I just went to a new healthy grocery store - complete dinner for 2 was $15.

But we are trying the quinoa/corn pasta and making some switches, too much wheat.

Seeing Red said...

“HHS has drafted a religious exemption that is so narrow that it excludes virtually all Catholic hospitals, elementary and secondary schools, colleges and universities, and charitable organizations, none of which impose a litmus test on those they serve, as the HHS mandate would have them do,” he added.



Competition.

I still say the Catholics sign an agreement to put their medical facilities on tribal grounds.


That should tie up things in court for decades.

They are sovereign people and don't have to follow all the rules we do.

Seeing Red said...

Living in poverty in an economy in which education and jobs are increasingly more difficult to come by. Having brain damage from being a crack baby or a lead soaked brain. Being an abused child of abused parents. etc etc

Education is increasingly more difficult to come by?


They're closing down public schools?


Please?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Education is increasingly more difficult to come by?


They're closing down public schools?


Maybe she meant a 'decent' education. You know. One where you actually learn things that are useful.

I think they should not completely shut down public education but allow more choice through charter schools. People can choose and the unionized babysitting factories that we have now as public schools will have to compete.