State Rep. Steve Nass, one of Walker's fellow Republicans from Whitewater, said... he was not attending the event because Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said at his party's convention over the weekend that "Scott Walker will see the inside of a jail cell before he sees the inside of another term." Nass also criticized weekend comments by Democratic Sen. Fred Risser of Madison about Walker.Rejecting an offer of beer and brats... What has happened to Wisconsin values?
Meanwhile, state Rep. Mark Pocan (D-Madison) said in a tweet he won't be attending either.
"I'm passing on 'Brat Summit' photo op. We need cooperation & compromise from Gov., not brats & beer," tweeted Pocan, who is running for Congress.
June 11, 2012
"Gov. Scott Walker's call for a bipartisan 'brat summit' is being met with its first boycotts."
And not just from Democrats:
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 296 of 296LaBatts from our nice hoser neighbors up north. Garage will be drinking LaBatts "up over der" in Canada this time next year.
Will you listen to this mewling cow weep the maudlin tears the size of crocodiles. Oh the poor teachers being called commies. Oh the horror of it all. Listen you twit, when the teachers unions are broken and gone and teachers can now teach on the merits of their skills while the back pressure to perform is always hanging over their head instead of having the giant insulator of the union buffering them, then I'll fight for their interests. Outside of that, they are nothing but a giant piece of back fat. And I mean this in the general sense. There are wonderful individual teachers who can only teach by being in the unions that exist today against their wills but hide it.
What a ray of sunshine!
Why were teachers so demonized this past year in Wisconsin, because they are union members, that's why.
Not really. I think it was because they showed their true colors. Dumb, stupid, uneducated themselves, selfish, lying, whining and self centered. Willing to use the students to get all the goodies for themselves. Inconveniencing the parents by abandoning their children. Inconveniencing the public. Trashing the public buildings and parks. They acted like spoiled brat partisan idiots instead of adults who are supposed to be in charge of teaching and impartially molding the minds of the next generation.
As we more and more see just how terrible our school system is and how uneducated are children are even while throwing millions of dollars at education, people are just not buying the super special status of teacher's unions.
There are some great individual teachers out there and it is very hard work. But there are also other people who work hard too and to demand that WE work even harder to support THEM.
Give and take is part of getting along in life and the Teachers Unions do not want to give an inch or a dime.
That's why.
Seriously? Now wipe the spittle off your chin Meth.
If there's one thing that Wisonsinites can agree on, it's Beer and Brats.
I prefer spicy Italians (In more ways than one.)
Is there a good craft brewery in Waukesha that Walker could serve. Good enough that the Demos from Dane Co couldn't sniff It's okay, but it's not Hopalicious, or It's no Lake Louie Coon Rock?
"I prefer spicy Italians (In more ways than one.)"
Me too! My Italian wife's Italians are delicious.
"What's truly suicidal is the Republican war on unions, women, minorities, GBLT and the downtrodden" - Alex
I can never tell if you are serious or not, but either way, you forgot "teachers, cops, and firefighters."
Christ. The Supreme Court struck it down.
So what?
Original Mike, well Fat Squirell is my autumn favorite.
That it's not fair for some people to have "Cadillac" health care plans while other shlubs are stuck with regular old health care plans, or none at all!
Ah....Obama's it's not fair mantra.
Well, life isn't fair. If you can afford to buy the best health insurance in the world or you can afford to finance your retirement in luxury....I'm all for that. Good for you.
If other people can't afford it, well....life isn't fair. Work harder.
But....you have no right to force ME to finance those things for you. Taking OUR money to buy you stuff is theft.
That is MY argument.
Actually hot Hungarians beat spicy Italians hands down.
So what?
So your comment "it would probably pass now" is nonsensical.
Were you one of those people who couldn't figure out the butterfly ballot?
Fat Squirrel is good.
MM, the Brewhaus in Delafield produces a few good beers.
Walker should throw The Dems a bone and serve Riverwest Stein.
Spotted Cow tastes like dirty dishwater.
I only ask because I'm drinking Queen Jennie instead of beer lately. (Yes, I have a bottle of it still)
Wow. Garage, this is easy to say, you're disappearance in the WEEK's preceding the recall election on this site makes you the biggest gaping vagina I'm the history of blogspm. It ain't even close bitch.
AllieOop said...
Seriously? Now wipe the spittle off your chin Meth.
Oh you are still here I see. Still present and providing little value. Sort of like a Wisconisn Public Employees Union.
It's a good summer beer, I do however prefer dark rich German beers, but they seem too heavy for summer.
donald said...
Wow. Garage, this is easy to say, you're disappearance in the WEEK's preceding the recall election on this site makes you the biggest gaping vagina I'm the history of blogspm. It ain't even close bitch.
Wait, does this mean that rules 34,35, and 36 now apply to Garage? Why yes, yes it does.
Do you remember what Bill Clinton did after his party lost the Congressional majority during the 1988 mid-term elections?
I spent a few minutes trying to remember what happened in Arkansas politics in 1988 before I realized you were off by a decade :)
"Spotted Cow tastes like dirty dishwater."
Thank you. I thought I was the only one in the state who couldn't stomach it.
(shhhh, Meth is talking to himself.....)
garage mahal said...
So what?
You are so dumb, that it really is kind of sad.
Just tell people that the pension system is ruining their non public worker lives.
Right on cue:
The Great Recession wiped out nearly two decades of Americans’ wealth, according to government data released Monday, with middle-class families bearing the brunt of the decline.
The Federal Reserve said the median net worth of families plunged by 39 percent in just three years, from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010. That puts Americans roughly on par with where they were in 1992.
Which of course means that the public sector shouldn't take a pay cut, or pay more for their (unsustainable) benefits.
Of course a big $100,000 W-2 guy like you can't connect all these things.
I agree Allie. Dark beers have more taste. However, I will occasionally go for something lighter when hot weather strikes.
You should give something like Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse a try. It's quite refreshing during the summer.
So your comment "it would probably pass now" is nonsensical.
Like I said, you are naive. Laws mean nothing to these people.
Liberals need to respect Walker's summit the way conservatives respected Obama's.
You must mean the *Budget* Summit invitations that began with "I won, Eric."? Deft touch, that Obama has.
VP Biden, Dr. Gates and Dr. Gates' arresting officer were the only invitees.
Bushman, is that a wheat beer? I don't drink them.
"Like I said, you are naive. Laws mean nothing to these people."
You've gone round the bend.
"Bushman, is that a wheat beer? I don't drink them."
Me neither. Wheat is for making bread.
Madison Man is correct that this is not a problem in Wisconsin, because the State actually managed the system in a responsible manner (e.g. actually funding the system as the years went by, rather than stuffing it with IOUs). Things aren't as rosy as they say, because they assume an optimistic ROI, but it's manageable going forward.
April 13, 2010 article says
Wisconsin pension funding for teachers falls $10.9 billion short, report says
That sounds like sizable $$$$ to me, but that may be pocket change to Wisconsinites. Or did someone find an extra $10B.
Brat summit
Yes Allie, it's a wheat. Wheat and barley beers both have gluten if that's your objection.
Althouse needs a beer-n-brat summit.
I'd road trip for dat.
Hell, I'd even buy Garage a brew.
Like maybe Potosi. Heh.
"Wheat and barley beers both have gluten if that's your objection."
My objection is they taste like beaver piss. YMMV.
A shandy can be nice in the summer. A mixture of lemonade and beer. Shandy in Great Britain, Radler in Germany.
Having lived in Germany for several years I can't drink mass produced American beers anymore...
Scotch is gluten free!!
AllieOop said...
(shhhh, Meth is talking to himself.....)
Actually I do talk to myself when posed with a problem that I need to solve. It helps me solve problems out in the open. Unlike the sheltered shallow thinking that you deploy here on a regular, if not consistent basis, that your decrepit ideology imposes upon you.
And in typical fashion you solve nothing, you offer no solutions, only dimwitted retorts that have no meaning or relevance to any topic at hand. You try to subtlety devolve a subject by ripping it apart to it's basic form, thus rendering it unrecognizable. Should I go back in this thread alone and post each and every one of your post in chronological order to show you and other the utter lack of value your commentary and presence is on this blog, much less the threads you inhabit?
Bushman And OM, yes, partially. Even before I was gluten free, I didn't like wheat beer. Never tried a gluten free beer, are they any good? Seems like I might just splurge and have a real beer a few times this summer.
@lemondog - Understood. That is pocket change (even on a percentage basis) compared to California, Illinois et al. Actual results over the years will depend on the market. One of the biggest problems for all "pension funds" (public, private, and individual) is the ridiculous Treasury rates manipulated by the Fed. It is imperative that we get rid of the tool in the WH and slow this crazy deficit spending. Nothing will improve the situation more than that one simple change.
My objection is they taste like beaver piss. YMMV.
Dark beers are my first choice. I enjoy everything from ambers to stouts. However, I'll take a wheat beer over Spotted Cow any day. Hell, I might even choose beaver piss over Spotted Cow.
Meth, have you contributed anything of worth in this entire thread? You can't be civil even for a minute and contribute some comment about a beer or a brat? What's wrong with you?
"A shandy can be nice in the summer. A mixture of lemonade and beer. Shandy in Great Britain, Radler in Germany."
Agreed.
I was told by a German that the lemonade/beer mixture was called "bicycle beer" at summer festivals, since it was favored by people who bicycled home at the end of the evening. I guess the auto drivers drank the full strength stuff. (Actually, they probably had a designated driver.)
RHardin nailed it yesterday when he said: :They're jobs.
Police and Firemen are just jobs, well paid with exceptional benefits and far from the most dangerous, difficult or unpleasant you could pick. What makes them different is that they are public and union. Otherwise, we might be forced to manage them based on facts and common sense.
Reduce pay and benefits and you would get people who want to do those jobs for the right reasons.
I like Killians Red too. Not bad for summer, but definitely not local beer.
Gluten free beer? Yuck.
I expected more from a woman who appreciates "hot Hungarians."
One of the biggest problems for all "pension funds" (public, private, and individual) is the ridiculous Treasury rates manipulated by the Fed
That may be a small part of the problem. You can't raise interest rates enough at this point to make any substantial difference. We are too far in the hole.
The real issue is the unrealistic assumption of returns and the overly generous benefits that are being promised..
How much money the pension fund is assumed to return over time indicates to the actuaries how much actual money needs to be invested TODAY to be able to provide the promised benefit in the future. When the market is doing good and interest rates are higher, less actual cash needs to be invested.
BUT....since the rates are low and the stock market hasn't been roaring along for quite some time, the assumption of return is much much to high meaning that MORE cash should be put into the pension fund. This is why San Jose's ANNUAL contribution to their public employees pension went from something like 73M to 245M. Unsustainable!!
In addition the refusal of the boards of these funds to adjust the ROI expectation to reality or to force the employees and the employer to put in the REAL amount needed to produce the defined benefit in the future....has just increased the unfunded portion of the pension from a small amount to something that is absolutely impossible to achieve.
We are so screwed. There is not enough money to be raised by taxes to pay these benefits and the beneficiaries REFUSE to compromise even though it means bankrupting their employer (the city, county, state, school district) and it means enslaving their own children and grandchildren.
Short sighted and selfish.
I like lots of hops. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
I am really feeling the need for this summit.
No, it's not me that drinks gluten free, I've never had it. Don't want to even try, its the real thing for me, if only a few times a year.
"I like lots of hops. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale."
Best beer ever made by man.
You and I need to fight so we'll have need of a beer summit. What should we fight about?
"I like lots of hops. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale."
Best beer ever made by man.
Ditto on that. If you ever get the chance go to the Sierra Nevada Brewing company in Chico. The restaurant is great and they have a 'beer sampler'. You get a large tray with a small glass of each of their various brews. The Pale Ale is still my favorite.
"The real issue is the unrealistic assumption of returns ..."
which ties directly to the paltry returns on the foundation instrument for a pension fund
"and the overly generous benefits that are being promised."
I'm getting south of 40% after 27 years. I'm very grateful, but you keep citing 100% of salary. Not in Wisconsin.
AllieOop - On demonizing teachers, cops, and firefighters...
I don't think critics are by and large demonizing them...
But knocking them off the pedestal of Our Untouchable Heroes whose caring, nurturing and protecting jobs are sacrosanct - is necessary.
And I add to that Republican blather about how every employer is a Noble Hero and anyone that goes in the military is a Insta-Hero that should be sacrosanct.
Cutbacks in government spending are necessary and rhetoric using "Hero-hood" to protect sacred cows has to be cut through and part of that is being willing to state the reasons why the average teacher, cop, grunt "with the troops" - is NOT a hero.
And crap about Hero Victims...."When Katrina hit, the hero black momma went to high ground with her 7 hero child victims...until the hero activists, lawyers, and free diaper dispensers arrived".
"Rather than sit in their seats and wait to die, the Hero Flight 93 members tried to save their lives"!!
"Rather than just give up - the hero lady fought her breast cancer! And told her heroic story on Oprah!"
That may be a small part of the problem. You can't raise interest rates enough at this point to make any substantial difference. We are too far in the hole.
If interest rates were to rise it would create a debt servicing problem on our already unwieldy debt.
I'm getting south of 40% after 27 years. I'm very grateful, but you keep citing 100% of salary. Not in Wisconsin
I guess it depends on the Union and the location. There are many ways to calculate the pay out. Most have a provision in their contracts that sets the pension amount based on the average of income over lifetime. SO if you earned averaged 50K every year and your pay out of earnings is 40% then you get 40% of 50K or $20K plus benefits.
Some plans and especially Public Employees like Police and Firefighters, have provisions that calculate the pay out based on your last few years of service. SO------> the employees pad their pay in those final years by adding huge amounts of overtime, racked up unused sick and vacation time. All done with the complicit help of their Unions.
Instead of calculating on 50K the employee might be using as much as 2 or 3 times that amount so that their payout is as much or MORE than their actual income. 150K at 40%= $60K
Does it happen all the time. No. But it is often enough and it is egregious. Pension padding.
We are all, to varying degrees, falling into the primary Dem ploy. It's never mindless bureaucrats sitting in some cubicle playing solitare all fucking day that get laid off. It's ALWAYS police, firefighters, and teachers that are the victims. The narrative needs to be changed.
I'll be happy to pay for good firefighters, police and teachers. As the great Bill Veeck said about baseball free agency, "It's not the high price of good ballplayers that hurts you, it's the high price for mediocrity that kills you.
Finally, All this foo foo beer talk is tedious. A good shot of bourbon and a good glass of beer. Keep it simple douchebags.
A good shot of bourbon and a good glass of beer. Keep it simple douchebags.
Scotch on the rocks. Simple?
If you ever get the chance go to the Sierra Nevada Brewing company in Chico
How far is Chico from San Francisco? (bought my tickets today! California here I come :) (in a few months)
"Rather than sit in their seats and wait to die, the Hero Flight 93 members tried to save their lives"!!
Actually, they saved other people's lives by crasing into the ground rather than a building filled with people.
If you are going to rant, rant about somebody else.
My pension is based on my top three years of income. However, I'm salaried, so there's no padding to be done.
The average person taxpayer) paying for public employee pensions and healthcare doesn't have that themselves. So anything at all is worthy of rethinking. Most people have to use their salary to save, invest, and mostly keep working long past the public employees we support. It's a whole different world, a system that public employees don't want to share. That's why they fight for their privileged system to continue.
The question is at what point do such people see the unfairness of that and accept parity with their fellow citizens? To not greedily insist on getting much more than what is really fair.
"We are so screwed. There is not enough money to be raised by taxes to pay these benefits and the beneficiaries REFUSE to compromise even though it means bankrupting their employer"
Which economist said "if something can't go on forever, it won't"? For those pension funds that are deeply underwater (and it's a lot of them), I can't imagine that the benefits won't, eventually, be pared back. What other recourse is there?
"You and I need to fight so we'll have need of a beer summit. What should we fight about?"
The violence inherent in the system. I'm for it during the first beer, then we alternate. Eventually we will move on to whether a woman looks better drooling mustard or kraut.
But an argument isn't just contradiction.
I can't imagine that the benefits won't, eventually, be pared back. What other recourse is there?
You and I and other sane thinking people understand this.
Obama didn't. His push to 'save' General Motors was really a push to save the Unions and their pensions plans. The money that they got went towards back filling their underwater pension.
The bond holders got hosed. The stock holders got screwed. The dealerships were devastated. Suppliers went belly up..... But HEY!! The Union ...I mean Government Motors was saved.
The recourse? The legal and traditional answer to the GM problem. Go through bankruptcy. Break the contract with the Union and come up with a settlement to lower the future pension costs, adjust the current payees pensions and General Motors would have come out of this a leaner and meaner company able to compete financially. Instead it is the same old same old bloated unionized company.
THAT is the recourse that cities and other agencies are going to HAVE to take because the selfish teachers unions and other public employees unions are never ever going to let go of the Golden Goose until all of our gooses are cooked.
"The bond holders got hosed. The stock holders got screwed. The dealerships were devastated. Suppliers went belly up....."
Yeah, that was disgusting and, more importantly, a disincetive for future investment. If they're going to change the rules in the middle of the game, less people are going to play going forward.
Can't imagine why the economy sucks. We HAVE to get rid of this guy.
Original Mike said...
Which economist said "if something can't go on forever, it won't"? For those pension funds that are deeply underwater (and it's a lot of them), I can't imagine that the benefits won't, eventually, be pared back. What other recourse is there?
They fully expect the federal government to bail them out.
Why do you think King Putt is so busy talking about Teachers, police officers, and first responders?
"But an argument isn't just contradiction."
Sometimes it's racist, and only a beer summit will fix that. To do otherwise would be to act stupidly.
"They fully expect the federal government to bail them out."
With what? The cupboard is bare.
I don't think they'll be successful at that. The flyover states will not bail out California.
"The flyover states will not bail out California."
55 electoral college votes says you'll do what what we want, and smile when you tell us about it.
"55 electoral college votes says you'll do what what we want, and smile when you tell us about it."
How many states does it take to amend the Constitution?
We got Clooney and Ellen. Just submit to our needs before we get angry and ban you from the parties.
Ban me, I beg of you.
Don't forget our secret weapon: The Octomom! We can breed more electoral votes anytime we need to.
I'm burying my money in the backyard, where the Feds can't find it. It's not like I can get a better return elsewhere.
Scotch on the rocks, DBQ? I'd pegged you as a girl who takes her adult beverages straight. But to each his own. Killian's Red, on the other hand, is rubbing alcohol with a red crayon dissolved in it. Use it to etch counterfeit plates if you must, Allie, but drink Sierra Nevada like a true American.
And again, garage, how's that crow tasting, you hack? I should have agreed to take that $100 off your hands; I'd have loved to watch you twist in the wind while you tried to weasel out of the bet. But hey, Walker's going to be indicted any day now, right? Keep hope alive!
The bond holders got hosed. The stock holders got screwed. The dealerships were devastated. Suppliers went belly up..... But HEY!! The Union ...I mean Government Motors was saved.
Aside from the fact I got screwed out 40k as a GM bondholder a friend of mine had his Cadillac dealership in Kansas jerked way as well. Never mind that it profitable and there was no other dealership for nearly 70 miles around. He wasn't 'connected'.
As for public sector employees pensions and benefits: screw em. The average private sector taxpayer is expected to work 40 to 45 years kicking in 12.4% of ordinary income to SS and has to pray by the time they retire they won't be 'means tested' just to get from SS between 20% to 40% of the average last ten years of income over at best a 15 year period. And they have save as much as one can in an IRA or 401k just to get by. No 30 years of collecting at between 60% to 90% of the final years as is the case in most of the blue states. Like I said, screw the public sector unions.
As for Walker and his beer and brat summit, either he is naive as some have said or sly genius playing them like a violin. Time will tell.
bagoh20 said...
"The flyover states will not bail out California."
55 electoral college votes says you'll do what what we want, and smile when you tell us about it.
6/11/12 6:48 PM
Yeah and? Ca still only has 2 senators. So while that might impress a presidential candidate it don't mean squat to the flyover states. The founders were wiremen indeed.
bagoh20 said...
"The flyover states will not bail out California."
55 electoral college votes says you'll do what what we want, and smile when you tell us about it.
As a Californian, I hope to HELL that no one bails out California. Feel the pain people!! You stupid idiots voted for all this shit. Wanted the free candy. Enticed all these illegal aliens and deadbeats to swarm into the state and attach themselves to us like a pack of blood sucking leeches.
GO bankrupt. Lay off all of the retarded teachers,keep those few good ones. Cut police and prison guards. Cut back and figure out how to live within our means. Let the forests burn up. You won't let us use them anyway. Quit driving businesses out of the state and into the ground
FEEL THE PAIN. You deserve it. And I live in this state. Fortunately, the area that I live in has always been the red headed step child of the state and neglected. So we won't feel much new pain.
This is how you learn. The rest of the country needs to spank California and put it into a time out.
"Ca still only has 2 senators."
God bless the Founders.
GM is in there with FB as far as IPO shitsville returns. Hopefully that little ugly stat will be on Romney's tongue when they debate.
@DBQ - You go girl. And that goes for me here in Illinois too. We're following in California's footsteps and that's not where we should be.
All pensions should be switched to defined contribution. Defined benefits are unsustainable especially with these unrealistic rates of return. Bernie Madoff all over again but this time they're "untouchable".
OMG WV: 7 moronmen : except there are more than 7 of them in government...
----don't sacrifice teachers, cops and firefighters to save a dime
Yes, this is what Obama said, nice that you have a chance to repeat it.
Of course what is happening here is the left conflating the bloat of government and hiding behind our respected public servants.
The Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development's monthly report for October 2010 indicated that, in seasonally-adjusted terms, 435,100 individuals worked for local, state and federal government, while there were 434,700 manufacturing jobs in Wisconsin. Non adjusted numbers reflect an even larger gap with 431,100 government jobs and 426,700 employed in manufacturing.
http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2010/11/government-employment-tops-manufacturing-job-numbers-in-wisconsin/
And every single one of them is a cop or a firefighter. I dont think so....
=====At the University of Wisconsin – Madison, the number of full-time administrators ?per 100 students increased by 32 percent between 1993 and 2007, while full-time employees engaged ?in instruction, research, and service increased by only 5 percent.
====UW-Madison, the UW System’s flagship university, employs 14.4 full-time ?administrators per 100 students, compared to only 7.4 teachers and researchers.
=====At the University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee the number of full-time administrators per 100 ?students grew by 2 percent between 1993 and 2007, while the number of full-time teachers, ?researchers, and service-providers actually declined by 3 percent.
My kid worked for the city streets department and was ashamed to be working only 4 hours a day if that.
Remember the SEC investigators that were found to be watching porn 8 hours a day?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/sec-pornography-employees-spent-hours-surfing-porn-sites/story?id=10452544
Obama had better focus on his job - the Federal government and stop worrying about the staffing decisions of hundreds of thousands of cities, counties and states.
-----I am beginning to wonder if Walker himself isn't have regrets with aligning himself so closely to ALEC. Just a hunch, but I'm probably wrong.
Yes, he had a terrible pang of this Tuesday night. What a Rockstar!!!!!!!
-----Chip S. It wasn't I who brought up the Badgercare issue, I was responding to Tim from Vermont, quit being a dick.
Now THAT's how you change the subject when confronted with the lies being told about VoterID disenfranchisement.
Did you know that you have to present your id to enter a federal court room to witness a trial? Eric Holder didn't.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2012/06/eric-holder-unaware-that-court-visitors-must-show-125703.html
BTW what did Commie Risser say?
----You're naive if you don't think the pension system is next from Walker's chainsaw.
It didn't take long for you to come up with another whopper. How's this deal, if Walker hasn't touched the pension in a year, you quit posting here. If he does, I quit, deal crap artist mahal?
But an argument isn't just contradiction.
Well, it CAN be.
"Well, it CAN be."
No. It isn't.
If interest rates were to rise it would create a debt servicing problem on our already unwieldy debt.
Interest rates are already being artificially kept low. That can't go on forever. That's why I say this is going to get worse.
"Interest rates are already being artificially kept low. That can't go on forever. That's why I say this is going to get worse."
That's what QEI, QEII, etc. are designed to do. Stave off the day of reckoning. But yeah, it's going to get worse.
garage mahal said...
I rather doubt the Legislature is going to "go after" the Pension Fund that holds their own pensions.
Eventually they'll privatize it into some crappy 401k plan. Give workers an option to participate in the WRS. After 5-10 years it would likely get phased out completely. There is 70 billion in the WRS, you can't tell me they haven't looked at ways at getting their hands on it.
Wisconsin is pretty gullible to begin with. Just tell people that the pension system is ruining their non public worker lives. Carpetbomb the state with 50 million in slick TV ad propaganda, and, voila!
The sky is falling! Run! Run into a union!
What are you? A union organizer?
The public voted on not continuing your free shit. Get over it.
Start scheming of new ways to screw the taxpayers. Quit whining.
ya big baby.
AllieOop its not so much the teachers as it is the unions. Can you fire bad teachers, No. If a teacher gets suspended where does she go? Does her pay check stop, ever? Or does she get moved to a place where no one knows her or him and they start over and are they any better than they were before, No. Where in the private sector you can get fired for infractions and you are gone. That's the difference.
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