On a flight with Mr. Trump and his family after the election, an Oval Office assistant heard Mr. Trump say: “It doesn’t matter if you won or lost the election. You still have to fight like hell.”
Did he say that? I'll assume he did. The assistant could have misheard or misunderstood the context or have misremembered or be lying. And how do I know this assistant is a real person who is saying precisely that? But let's assume Trump said it — in private, to his family. What does it say about him? You fight until the end. You fight and win or you go down fighting, but you don't give up. That's Trump's mindset.
On the debate stage in 2016, asked to say something nice about Hillary, Trump said "She doesn't quit. She doesn't give up. I respect that":
And in 2020, before the election, Hillary Clinton was still manifesting that fighting spirit that Trump respected as she sternly warned Democrats: "Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances!" Don't give an inch! Be... relentless," she said:
Do you believe in fighting for your cause to the bitter end? Maybe it's better to concede when you can see defeat ahead, but some people fight until there's no conceivably possible route to success. Is there one last attenuated legal path of relief? That's how far Trump fought. And what about the additional moves, the grasping at illegitimate power? That's what the prosecutors mean to prove, using material like "It doesn’t matter if you won or lost the election. You still have to fight like hell."
Posts
157 comments:
In One Party State/ Soviet-Democrat America.
I like that the Dems' fight song starts with "dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb..."
The corrupt Soviet Democratic Left demand the criminalization of everything about Trump. Over-heard utterances, (real or not) hearsay, and mind-reading, too.
If a democratic used the same word -that's OK. Because reasons and shut up.
This might be the worst gambit in the DNC/Intel cartel’s lawfare annd election rigging against Trump, dumping a prosecutorial brief unopposed into the press. If he wins, Trump should prosecute Jack Smith first.
The Soldier's Creed is relevant:
"I am an American Soldier.
I am a warrior and a member of a team.
I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier."
If we're going to fight fight fight, let it begin here. Never surrender.
Occasional commenter AVI has pointed out at his blog that Democrats have 'fought for' voters for some time. GOP candidates promised to 'work for' voters, largely but not exclusively until the Trump era.
Fight saved Donald Trump's life if he had not stood up so people could see him alive, pissed off and in fine fettle he would have died on the way to the hospital,. They would have found that he hit his head when they knocked him down, the bullet was closer to his head than they thought, whatever. they would have found some reason that he would not make it to the hospital alive
fight is Donald Trump's word. Heh owns that word he should use it everyday to remind us and to remind us who he's fighting for
us
John Henry
Of course he won look around at the evidence of the steal
And since he is part scot consider the words of william wallace
Of course, the 2020 election was stolen. The Dems had 50 ways to do it. And they did. The Dems have let into this country at least 12m illegal aliens since Biden has been president. So, when an illegal alien gets a driver's license the Dems then use that to register the person to vote and they capture his vote. A website called Absurdstan has the info. A person at Power Line steered me to that blog.
Althouse reminded me of the Arizona SCOTUS case that Scalia decided. Scalia told the GOP how the Dems were stealing elections and the GOP wimps in DC did nothing.
I only hope that Laura Trump is on the case and she's figured out how to stop this cheating.
Trump has all the institutions against him. All he has is the people. That might be enough but its a fight to the finish.
October surprise? Election interference? It sure walks like a duck.
With all that, how come more people didn't realize that Hillary Clinton was the "joy" candidate of 2016?
"— or are you one of the millions who think he won? — in 2020"
I think as in all elections there was fraud and error in 2020. That so many are terrified of a clear investigation into whether the common fraud and error was in places and of sufficient amount to alter the election is suspicious and an indicator that they are not confident Trump lost a fair election.
Trump won in 2016, and he went on to lose — or are you one of the millions who think he won? — in 2020, and now he's fighting to win again.
I think he got more votes for electors than Biden in 2020, but obviously he lost the certification battle. I hear few arguing that "Trump won" and no one saying "he's the real president." Not like the Hillary supporters that said, "He's not my president." Same as the Bush haters said back in the early aughts. I strongly push back on all attempts to say Trump is extreme or out of the normal range of Presidents. People who run are a strange lot -- all of them. Is Trump stranger than "normal"? Not in my opinion. He's a unique communicator but his governing principles are firmly within the American tradition.
Had an old friend today tell me "you're in a cult!" This was after an exchange on X where I refused to accept her extreme description of Trump as a lawless authoritarian. She said, "Goodbye." Is it forever? Probably not. She's stomped off Twitter before. Now to the point: I've never heard of a Trump supported demanding their friends reject Democrats and "ending" a friendship if they don't. This is a uniquely left wing phenomenon in the Trump era, and maybe for all recorded time.
Anyone have an example going against the trend to share?
Like most of the pilots in the NTSB's accident archives, if I had only one word left to say it would probably be unprintable.
Corrupt Democrat Party prosecutors trying to railroad Trump provide "quotes" that they would have no way of knowing, and Althouse says, "I'll accept that!"
Tampon Tim says, I love school shooters! and Althouse says, "That's not what he said."
This is some flexible Cruel Neutrality.
I really haven’t any idea who won the 2020 election.
It’s impossible to know.
I did watch the election coverage that night and as I was calculating the electoral votes there was a point at which Trump was clearly in the lead. But instead of repeating the total votes at that point, the news media pretended not to notice. And waited until Biden once again appeared to be in the lead to give a vote total update. As a result, at the end of the night there was a timeline narrative which showed Biden always in the lead.
or are you one of the millions who think he won?
I'm one of the millions of people who KNOW that the court systems in the United States refused to take even a single case in regards to the 2020 election. They were all dismissed for spurious reasons. Not a single case got to the evidentiary or especially the document production stage.
And then Democrats claimed that questioning the result was a "conspiracy theory."
Like Hunter's laptop being Russia disinformation.
Our government is so trustworthy in every other area that the election must be on the up and up.
Right?
Joe Biden won. HOW he won is the point. HOW he won was by fraud, cheating and subterfuge on such a vast scale that a free society should go to WAR against its own government to prevent from ever happening again.
"...or are you one of the millions who think he won?"
I am one of the scores of millions that thinks there is no way of knowing who won, because there is no way to audit the results of that election; and that there is something suspiciously wrong about that condition, and its stubborn perpetuation, for something so simple and eminently manageable - as evidenced by the superior integrity of elections in other, less developed countries.
I am one of the scores of millions that suspects, deep down, that such a condition could not exist without a hidden support system, geared toward making it invulnerable to reform, geared toward cultures of corruption in big cities, geared toward electronic trickery by back-door design, geared toward intimidating judges into pretending they should not consider the evidence when it is presented. It is a case of systemic and implacable obfuscation.
And I am one of the scores of millions that knows such a condition is poison to the Republic, if allowed to continue. The only remedy is to demand transparency, accountability, and an audit trail, and pursue those who evade it one by one until they are prosecuted out of the system.
I've always liked 'I tried A! I tried B! I tried C! Give me something else to try!'
With extreme predjudice. Jack Smith should be the first one hanged.
"… or are you one of the millions who think he won?"
I think there is no way to know, our elections are inauditable. And the democrats fight tooth and nail to keep them that way. The implications of that are obvious.
We don't NEED to know who won. We KNOW that Democrats cheated and we know HOW they cheated and that is all we NEED to know to work against this government from top to bottom. If it happens again, we should eliminate this government in precisely the same way that George Washington, Paul Revere and Benjamin Franklin eliminated THEIR corrupt government.
Words the left may use:
Target
Fight
Freedom
Trump stole the election from Hillary
Words Trump may not use:
All of the words that are known to exist.
Trump's very existence is illegal.
Does anyone with half a brain still think that 81 million people voted for Joe Biden?
Of course, the election was stolen by all the drop boxes and mail in ballots.
Let's see how many votes are tallied by both candidates this November. If it matches 2020, I will take back my assertions.
If the Soviet Left could jail everyone who refuses to buy the left's open cheating....
They would.
The Xi-Soviet D-left would love to jail or murder millions of non-submissive /non-loyal Americans.
Mein Kampf. Kenneth Burke translates it as "battle," though. "The Rhetoric of Hitler's 'Battle': in The Philosophy of Literary Form.
“We have put together the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics. I don’t need you to get me elected."
– Joe Biden, from his own damn mouth
'His name is a killing word' sarc
or are you one of the millions who think he won?
Fact check/mic cut: Tens of millions...and we know he didn't 'win' because he did not become President but he and the tens of millions of us know there was voter fraud, and to use their qualifying language, widespread enough to alter the outcome...
It's always a delight when Ann puts up a post like this, collecting her thoughtful reflections on a series of disparate elements. My only small contribution to the conversation is that it is a mark of the maturity of a chess player to know when to resign, and that only the immature and unskilled keep playing out the moves when they are fated for defeat.
If you have that bookmarked, Space, please share the URL. I searched in vain for that quote last week. I remember him saying it but the Borg is erasing our digital memories.
Recent ad on my leftie radio station had a very strident woman's voice demanding Trump lose. Then Kamala's voice said she approved this ad. It was Hillary yelling and calling for voters to fight. Kamala has so little fight she has to farm it out to another woman.
I'm going to decline the offer to watch the video but the still makes it look like some kind of creepy leftie Tattletales. It shows on the Game Show network or whatever it is called now and if you haven't I encourage you to have cocktail and watch. The breeziness of the banter and innuendo with Bert Convy as ringmaster is quite refreshing television....
A lot of negatives there. See Kenneth Burke on the negative command:
As regards the transforming of the negative command into an attitudinal positive, William Ernest Henley's overly confident "Invictus" is an obvious illustration, beginning even with the title. "Out of the night," a negative ground, the poet thanks God for his "unconquerable soul." He has "not winced nor cried aloud." His head is "unbowed." He is, and will remain, "unafraid." If the road is narrow, "it matters not." Nor will he worry that he may be "charged with punishments." For, he concludes,
"I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."
One need not be in the literary business long to detect a considerable amount of whistling in the dark here. We don't know the facts of the case, but we shouldn't be surprised to learn that, about this time, the poet had been scaring himself intensely.
Language as Symbolic Action p.445
"Do you believe in fighting for your cause to the bitter end? Maybe it's better to concede when you can see defeat ahead"
Fight for your principles and only (pretend to) concede (for a while) when you plan to regroup, return and continue the fight. If people just roll over and walk away they have no principles. Fighting doesn't always mean a face to face confrontation either. There are "other", more sutble ways to fight. 😉
Tom Petty says it best
Well, I won't back down
No, I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of Hell
But I won't back down
No, I'll stand my ground
Won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin' me down
Gonna stand my ground
And I won't back down
Well, I know what's right
I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I'll stand my ground
And I won't back down
I don’t know what this post is about but I’m guessing something to do with the unsealed charges against Trump.
Even the left wing media is calling out Smith's/Chutkan's gambit.
https://dailycaller.com/2024/10/02/rebecca-roiphe-far-fetched-jack-smiths-brief-breaches-trump/
https://dailycaller.com/2024/10/02/cnn-elie-honig-jack-smith-evidence-brief-trump/
For Democrats to call an allegation a lie tells you something, as does their claim that there was little or no cheating in the 2020 election, certainly not enough to make a difference. The weak link in this claim revolves around the subjective process of "signature verification" of mail-in ballots, especially in cities like Detroit and Philadelphia, the results of which have never been audited, at least to my knowledge.
I was particularly troubled by an advertisement for election workers I remember reading that was published by the city of Philadelphia. Applicants needed to be at least sixteen years old (!) and were promised hourly pay that was many times greater than any normal sixteen year old could be expected to earn.
As Trump would say when Pence was running for his life… “so what.”
We aren't the world
We aren't the children
We aren't the ones who make a brighter day, so let's stop lying
LOVE this post. Fight or surrender; it's that simple. Fight anew each day and enjoy every hour.
Republican former Rep. Liz Cheney will campaign with Vice President Kamala Harris in Wisconsin on Thursday, touting her endorsement of the Democratic presidential nominee in the crucial battleground state, a senior campaign official told CNN.
The campaign event marks the latest effort from the former Wyoming congresswoman to move undecided voters away from former President Donald Trump with less than five weeks until Election Day. Cheney, who previously told CNN she was committed to doing what was necessary to stop Trump from returning to the White House, endorsed Harris last month in North Carolina, another swing state.
Fight fight fight. Because the fight is against the democrat party. The Democrat party is an existential threat to our country and our constitution.
Yeah - Because the FBI faked the Jan 6th bomb plot - and Nancy said no to Trump's request for more Capitol Security prior. Poor Pence was almost murdered! Murdered! by a mob of people who didn't have a single gun with them!
Your lie-meme's are tired.
Jack Smith (and Chutkin) are the one "fighting" despite a glaring lack of merit and legal basis for the prosecution, because they see Kamala going down politically.
Fighting to the end was Winston Churchill’s line in May 1940 when theMonarchy had planned to have him sign a peace with Germany to keep their Empire.
But the half American Winston defied the Windsors and rescued the Army while Hitler stopped attacking in expectation of a surrender.
Churchill knew a Bataan death march was not an option.
https://x.com/SteveGuest/status/1320107370312323073
I think there are lots of Democrats who believe that illegal immigrants should be made citizens (now) and should have the right to vote (now) and they don't mind if the I's aren't dotted and T's aren't crossed. They don't think it's an illegal vote, they think it's an undocumented vote, and they think it should count. That's why they are in flagrant opposition to voter ID and making sure all our votes are from citizens. I have no doubt about this whatsoever, all you need to do is talk to liberals, who pretend like there are no crimes and nobody breaks the law (in an election). And if you proved to them that the law was broken, they would still defend the person's right to vote. This is precisely why the Democrats have opened the floodgates and allowed to many people to come into this country illegally -- to have them vote for Democrats.
"Tara! Home. I'll go home. And I'll think of some way to get him back. After all... tomorrow is another day." (Gone With the Wind)
If Trump had conceded the 2020 election in a more orderly, regular fashion, he could have gone home to Mar a Lago and plotted out his triumphant return to victory in 2024. He didn't do that, though, instead, he encouraged a lot of other people to carry on the fight for him, sacrificing them to his lost cause, and he gave his enemies a lot of ammunition to store up and use against him.
To what effect, do you think? You imagine that the people that originally voted for her, still love her, and the people that didn't vote for her, love her for some other reason? You think the people that listen to her, respect her for her loyalty? What for?
People rioted and burned a section of DC when he was inaugurated, and did the same thing nationwide in 2020 to cities all across the country during that Summer before the election.
There will be no more orderly, regular fashion from here on out. They chose chaos, not us. Millions of us will be happy to oblige them.
Voters have a right to know this information.
They can evaluate the source of the information, Jack Smith and the DOJ, and weigh their opinions accordingly.
If the information is honest and accurate, voters can make more informed decisions.
Regardless, I’m not sure if this will move the needle at all. What have we not learned about Trump in the last eight years that will move Trump supporters to change their minds and vote for Harris or not vote?
At best some independent voters may vote Blue or instead of voting for Trump not vote at all.
New information about Donald Trump only solidifies what we already know about the man.
Funny enough, because of a PJMedia thing about Taylor Swift and Lana Del Ray; I was looking up Rachel Platten's political views. Because Hillary used her song, it is presumed that she supports Hillary. Reading her words, it was more like she was ok with Hillary using it in her way, but she specifically said in multiple interviews and on Twitter, the song was not written to be political and not meant to be political.
Later Trump used it in 2016 but with an arrangement made by "The Piano Guys" that also used portions from another song, and Platten reiterated her statements that she didn't like the song to be used politically. This was taken that Platten didn't like Trump. I think she was quite clear that she prefers the song to be an individual's source of inspiration and motivation. And while initially flattered by Hillary's use, Platten will fight to keep it apolitical.
As for Trump using "fight", it is simply a McGuffin being used inappropriately by progressives to suggest Trump is inciting violence. I think, like Platten, Trump is using it to suggest he's motivated to keep pushing for his agenda. If you are a Stalinist that thinks Trump's agenda is Hitleresque, then you'll make propaganda that Trump's agenda is a threat that should be opposed by any means. And so that is what the left does these days. They'll insult him, his supporters, arrest Trump, arrest his followers, and if all that fails, they'll assassinate him and his followers.
I remember the j20 riots the charges were dropped and expunged the june 2020 riots no charges filed
Lol @ loser Party members celebrating the endorsement of a Cheney. You people have no principles or ethics at all. Completely corrupt and evil shits.
If you’re one of those willfully disregarding the bad faith, fraud and outright election interference in Wisconsin, Arizona and Georgia - just for starters - well, the far-left thanks you.
The Hate-Cult left inspire crazies to kill Trump. On purpose.
I think the Butler kid was a paid patsy. He was taken out so quickly.
Well said, John Henry!
Voters have the right to the DNC evening news filled with hearsay and half-truths!
For Democrats to call an allegation a lie tells you something, as does their claim that there was little or no cheating in the 2020 election, certainly not enough to make a difference.
It is not only Democrats. Even Bill Barr believed this statement was true.
Emotional Infants
A New Year message from the heart of MAGA to the Jewish community.
GOP Rep. Tim Burchett on George Soros: "He is a money changer of the worst kind"
Did he have any strong opinions on Sheldon Adelson?
Does he have any strong opinions on Sinclair Media?
Remember, Rudy Guiliani's lies about the vote in Georgia cost him $147 million and his law license.
I understand it is probably hyperbole but I can’t really believe millions of Americans are pledging their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor in a war to put Donald Trump on the throne.
This. The US needs to overhaul how we do elections completely so there is no question about the outcome, and auditing processes to confirm that.
You need to fix your typo. It is Democratic National "Convention", not "Conviction". And I just checked it and it is still wrong.
Note to everyone out there. Even IF Trump is defeated this time around (and I don't think he will be) we're not going anywhere. We will continue to fight. It's not Trump's fight. It is ours. It was ours before Trump even came down that escalator. We've been over this before: Trump is not the cause, he's a symptom.
We will still be here. We will still be fighting. So the media and 'experts' offering up their best view of how to 'make it all go away' still don't understand what it is they're looking at.
Oh yeah. Shana Tova- to all of you.
Voters must be shielded from Biden family corruption, Biden family shell companies, Biden family unpaid taxes, Hunter's laptop. etc...
Hillary's Private Server for Clinton cash... from Russia.
& all of Kamala's past freak-filled radical left stances.
In the last couple of weeks Trump has said that the mass deportation will be a "bloody business", and has advocated cops be allowed to have one day when they can beat up (maybe even use deadly force) on anyone they perceive as a bad guy.
This isn’t “information.” It’s an unopposed pleading by a partisan prosecutor, produced precisely at the time when it cannot be rebutted in time for the election. It’s election rigging in the extreme.
True...but the chess player, who concedes, doesn't quit the game entirely, walk away and never play chess again. He/She rethinks the strategy and plans a rematch.
Sun Tzu
"When some are seen advancing and some retreating, it is a lure"
"“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Reminds me of the old story
Guy falls off a cliff, grabs a tree branch on the way down. Is yelling "Help! Help! Somebody save me!"
A booming voice above says "I am the Lord. Let go of the branch and I will save you."
Guy looks up, sees nobody. Looks down, sees certain death
"Is there anyone else up there?"
I've used that story several times as the basis for a 10-15 minute talk in the Children's Corner in the church. Always gets a good response.
John Henry
Hillary did not stop when the election was over. She launched the dossier and let her friends at the FBI take up her cause.
"Don't give an inch! Be... relentless"
Now updated to: "Don't give a quarter inch!"
You misunderstand. Millions of Americans are ready to pledge their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to destroy the nakedly unambiguous forces seeking to destroy the posterity bequeathed them in the Constitution, which is under significant threat. There is no throne. Donald Trump is one imperfect man that represents a significant strand of this resistance, but the fight is in no way for him, it is against the forces that seek to revoke our rights and tried to kill him, twice.
Millions aren't willing to fight for Donald Trump. Millions are willing to fight those seeking to destroy our rights, he's just in the way.
She was still saying russia stole the election three years later
I've talked here about how we have secure elections in PR to the point where we don't even have jokes about dead people voting. Used to have, anyway. Until our legislators changed the voting laws.
This year we have early voting and absentee ballots and LOTS and LOTS of discussion about dead people on the voter rolls and how there is no way to keep them from voting.
It used to be that if you missed 2 elections, your registration was made inactive and you had to go to the electoral office in town to get it reactivated. Miss 3 and it was cancelled and you had to register anew.
So the dead and moved got automatically purged after 12 years or so. And since you had to physically show up to vote, there was little chance of the dead voting.
Not any more.
I'll see how it goes but if it goes as I suspect, I am going to turn in my voter ID and deregister in December.
John Henry
The Democrat/leftmediaswine calculated political hysteria over Jan. 6th is cover for the Stalinism of Garland, Smith and Chutkan. The case will be mostly ambiguous hearsay. These Democrat prosecutors are a disgrace to the profession.
The Democrat/leftmediaswine calculated political hysteria over Jan. 6th is cover for the Stalinism of Garland, Smith and Chutkan. The case will be mostly ambiguous hearsay. These Democrat prosecutors are a disgrace to the profession.
If you come visit me in Puerto Rico, Trad Guy, I'll show you the naval anchorage, 16" gun emplacements, underground throne room and all the accoutrements for a British government in exile.
Including 3 pretty substantial bunkers on the hill in front of my house, about 200 yards away as the gull flies.
John Henry
Harris holds a 66 electoral vote lead over Trump, according to Professor Thomas Miller's forecast model based on today's candidate standing on PredictIT. This investment vehicle buys and sells Trump and Harris shares to bettors. PredictIT changes minute by minute, so this forecast includes the effect of the VP debate and Hurricane Helene. Most of all, Miller says bettors’ views of who will prevail seem locked in place. And for Trump to regain the White House, a huge share of wagerers must move to his camp which is unlikely since Harris appears to be on track to win all swing states.
The world faces disruption from the widening war in the Middle East and the Longshoreman's strike to forestall port automation on the East and Gulf coasts could affect election results but logically bettors with money on the line will likely decide that our presidential candidates have no play in these games.
Leave it to one of the local Leftist morons to defend a Nazi collaborator.
The masochistic Subway Jack Smith’s panicked mincing is the tell.
“Second Trump-hired firm found 2020 fraud claims were ‘all false’
The Trump campaign hired Simpatico Software Systems and its founder, Ken Block, to investigate fraud claims all over the country after the 2020 election.
“No substantive voter fraud was uncovered in my investigations looking for it, nor was I able to confirm any of the outside claims of voter fraud that I was asked to look at,” he told the Post. “Every fraud claim I was asked to investigate was false.”
A similar firm, Berkeley Research Group, was hired by the Trump campaign to investigate fraud claims. Like Simpatico, Berkeley did not find evidence of fraud or that the election was stolen.”
The Hill
Even the investigators Trump hired himself found no evidence that the election was stolen.
Harris 2024: “When we fight we win.” Sounds like incitement to me.
Sometimes, you fight to the end, when your back is against the wall. Sometimes, you make a strategic withdrawal in order to fight another day. But you never give up on anything worth fighting for.
Sally, it is hard to believe until one understands that this is a cult.
Temujin: "Even IF Trump is defeated this time around (and I don't think he will be) we're not going anywhere." True. We aren't going anywhere, at least until Democrats open the camps. However, I don't think Democrats will let Trump win. They will kill him, let him be killed or steal the election. There is no conduct by them, however egregious, that will not be condoned by the media, Democrat grandees and their rank and file.
Temujin: "Even IF Trump is defeated this time around (and I don't think he will be) we're not going anywhere." True. We aren't going anywhere, at least until Democrats open the camps. However, I don't think Democrats will let Trump win. They will kill him, let him be killed or steal the election. There is no conduct by them, however egregious, that will not be condoned by the media, Democrat grandees and their rank and file.
Senator Russ Feingold: “It’s not over until we win!” Can he be prosecuted? Is there a statute of limitations?
That sounds like election denialism.
Before the normal trolls try to rebuke this; let's keep in mind the topic of this post. Democrats have pulled out of context one word "fight" and pounced on it to suggest Trump is inciting insurrection. Yet, here's a whole sentence by Biden that suggests he created a "voter fraud organization" among other tools to assure his 2020 win. It is as damning as Biden's video withholding aid to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor looking into his son's company.
“Days before the 2020 presidential election Donald Trump was planning to declare victory on election night, even if there was no evidence he was winning, according to a leaked Steve Bannon conversation recorded before the vote.
In the audio, recorded three days before the election and published by Mother Jones on Wednesday, Bannon told a group of associates Trump already had a scheme in place for the 3 November vote.
“What Trump’s gonna do is just declare victory. Right? He’s gonna declare victory. But that doesn’t mean he’s a winner,” Bannon, laughing, told the group, according to the audio.
“He’s just gonna say he’s a winner.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/14/steve-bannon-audio-trump-declare-victory
You think this won’t come up in the trial? Think again.
Indeed.
Here's the old Althouse Troll carrying on with the topic of this post. Fredster is too stupid to even understand the conversation.
Sally, it isn't hard to see that Inag is one of its members.
what's the remedy to all this free speech - Inga? Re-programming at the gulag? If your side said as much, AND HAS! - it's all fine.
But to you - a loyal D-cultist Soviet leftist - speech is a felony.
or are you one of the millions who think he won?
In a handful of selected vote-counting centers, Milwaukee being one of them, Republican observers were dismissed, usually via a subterfuge. After the Republican observers departed the premises the ballot counters ent back to counting ballots. Althouse, do you have any proof, other than “Trust us,” that all legal ballots but ONLY illegal ballots were counted? Because if you don’t, then this piece of snark is seriously out of line.
Maybe it's better to concede when you can see defeat ahead, but some people fight until there's no conceivably possible route to success.
Which is why a woman can never truly be a man.
How does a person become as deliberately evil as Inga? The woman is a weird cross between a Stasi agent and a punk Nazi thug.
I'd like to think you're exaggerating - but any more it's hard to see that the folks we trusted for decades are actually still trustworthy, when their failures are so visibly the cause of negligence or disinterest.
https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-wisconsin-lawsuits-presidential-16d90c311d35d28b9b5a4024e6fb880c
“MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A Wisconsin judge said Thursday that a Republican-ordered, taxpayer-funded investigation into the 2020 election found “absolutely no evidence of election fraud,” but did reveal contempt for the state’s open records law by Assembly Speaker Robin Vos and a former state Supreme Court justice he hired.“
“Biden’s victory by nearly 21,000 votes has withstood recounts, multiple state and federal lawsuits, an audit by the nonpartisan Legislative Audit Bureau and a review by a conservative activist law firm, the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty. An Associated Press review of Wisconsin and other battleground states also found far too little fraud to have tipped the election for Trump.”
54 40!
Freder pops up when mind reading is needed. The point is that nobody knows and the courts NEVER allowed a serious challenge to be tried on the evidence.
Field Marshal Freder is A-OK with lawfare as long as it is directed at Republicans. Guiliani saved NYC once but that was not the Democrats' choice.
Trump is fighting mostly to stay out of prison, for which end he feels he must become POTUS. However, is he mistaken in thinking that, as president, he will be (or can make himself) impervious from legal sanctions for convictions already on his head...and any others that may still be handed down?
You can tell it's an October before a presidential election when stuff like this comes out....
On a flight with Mr. Trump and his family after the election, an Oval Office assistant heard Mr. Trump say: “It doesn’t matter if you won or lost the election. You still have to fight like hell.”
I must say that this is pretty weak sauce. Trump didn't say that if you lose you need to break the rules or break the law. He might have been talking about pursuing totally legal and appropriate avenues to overturn the election results. (Like filing lawsuits and appeals)
This reminds me of Patton's speech, in the movie, where Patton talks about Americans loving to fight and hating losing. This is just the way that Alpha males talk. Fight to the end even if you don't win. (Patton won the Academy award for best picture in 1971.)
Don't forget that Rocky kept fighting to the last round even though he ultimately lost the fight to Apollo Creed. He even told Adrian beforehand that going the distance was more important to him than winning. (And that film won the Academy award for best picture in 1977.)
The communist tells us why Trump fights. No mention of your desire to kill him.
Trump and his base are fighting to ensure your haphazardly retarded vision for the country is destroyed and has no future forevermore. Any screeching you do afterwards is just a bonus, Kook.
Ha! Of course now, most of the canadians living south of that line would love to be Americans!
JSM
Trump is fighting mostly to stay out of prison, for which end he feels he must become POTUS.
Please explain to us, Cook. What crimes did Trump commit?
Has anyone in non-Soviet history ever been charged with those "crimes" before?
it is hard to believe until one understands that this is a cult.
I am happy that you are starting to develop some self-awareness, Inga. The Democrat cult is something that completely rots the mind if left unchecked by logic and reason.
"Fight saved Donald Trump's life if he had not stood up so people could see him alive, pissed off and in fine fettle he would have died on the way to the hospital,. They would have found that he hit his head when they knocked him down, the bullet was closer to his head than they thought, whatever. they would have found some reason that he would not make it to the hospital alive."
Hahahahaha! Oh, boy! Who is this "they?" I think it more likely the whole event was staged (with real casualties) than that there were those there who would have tried to kill him on the way to the hospital.
This posting does not remotely do justice to the facts that the government claims to be able to prove. It continues a pattern in which Professor Althouse chooses to be blind to the evidence of Trump's complete indifference to the rule of law and the human consequences of lawlessness.
Fight to the end is NOT the point. The point of the indictment--and the reason that Trump's conduct has proven disqualifying for many Republicans, including many who Professor Althouse once professed to respect--is NOT that Trump fought till the end--but that he fought WELL PAST the end, and that he did so without regard to the facts OR the law.
With regard to the facts, he basically told those with whom he was working that he did not care to know the facts: willful blindness to the facts is a classic form of scienter. Trump decided before the election that if he lost it would be because of fraud, and doubled down on his claims even as his theories were debunked by investigators (including his own), all but one of his lawsuits failed (over 30 on the merits, that is, for lack of evidence) and even though everyone--the lawyers handling the cases, his retained experts, and his inner circle, advised that there was no evidence to support his claims. In addition, of course, he repeatedly and openly lied about simple matters of fact, such as whether Pence agreed with his loony position on the legal issues.
Nor is it the case that there was even an attenuated legal theory at the end.
There was nothing--no tenable legal argument and no possible route to relief. Trump's claim was that the 12th Amendment gave the VP unreviewable power to throw out the SOLE slate of electors from seven states that he and Trump lost, effectively denying the voters of those states the franchise, and handing himself victory, even though state elected officials (including many Trump supporters), state and federal courts (including Trump appointees), state legislatures (mostly Republican controlled), the Justice and Homeland Security Departments (staffed by his own appointees), and both Houses of the US Congress, including most Republicans, agreed that the slates should be counted.
Effectively Trump's position was that he and his running mate, despite their obvious and massive conflicts of interest, were, as a matter of constitutional law, the only and final arbiters of whether he had won the election. Only when Pence had rejected that position multiple times--conduct which Trump derided as "too honest"--did he shift to the even more crazy position that his running mate had absolute and unreviewable power to postpone the count in his sole discretion, even if no government actor had requested such a postponement and all relevant government actors opposed one.
So yes, he fought. But he fought on the premise that the facts as found by every relevant government actor simply didn't matter and that the law gave his running mate, acting on the basis of unvetted and false private submissions from him, ultimate power to determine the law and the facts bearing on victory, no matter what anyone else said. This was not an effort to vindicate a legal position. Rather, it was a prescription for disruption, pure and simple. And that's what happened.
And then, when it happened, Trump doubled down again, denouncing Pence as a coward for taking the obviously correct legal position, failing to intervene to protect him, and professing complete indifference to his welfare when under attack.
Putting aside the question of criminal liability, Professor Althouse, why don't these facts, virtually all from public or Republican sources, indicate Trump's unfitness to serve, as so many moderate Republicans have concluded? Put another way--what do you understand the factually and legally informed counterargument for Trump's fitness to be?
RCP No-Toss-up
Please, Steven, list the facts that were ignored by Trump.
Falsification of business records (to hide his payments to Stormy Daniels to keep quiet about their sexual encounter), for which he was convicted of 34 counts in a NYC courthouse. It was only a few months ago. Surely, you can't have forgotten. Repressed or deny it, maybe, but not forgotten.
Tl:Dr - "Every relevant government actor" has been found to be unconscionably biased against Trump and unjustly manipulative of the authority they possessed to attack him, long before the election was even decided.
That's an awful lot of words when "I'm an establishment toadie who believes what I'm told" would suffice.
"Of course, the 2020 election was stolen. The Dems had 50 ways to do it. And they did."
And yet, no evidence has yet been produced that support the claims. Just wishing really, really hard that something is so is not sufficient to make it so.
I love how people like Kook continuously trot out this totally unprecedented and spurious prosecution as some kind of gotcha. Some of the best legal minds in the country have roundly condemned the NYC judicial lynching of Trump in this case.
But don't worry Kook, we know that you and your kind need it desperately to build an edifice of dirt because there's nothing else there.
" or are you one of the millions who think he won? "
It doesn't have to be this absolute. I could be one of those who think there is a significant chance, say 30% to 60% that he won.
Why would I believe that?
If people think it's important enough to prevent Trump from winning by killing him and many more announce that they would like to see him killed, how many more would be willing to commit the lesser crime of voter fraud to prevent him from winning?
If Biden won legitimately, then full investigations in to the accusations of voter fraud would confirm that. Instead, complaints like the ones in Georgia where the republican monitors were kicked out and the vote counting continued and in Pennsylvania where signature verification was ignored, were dismissed based on procedural issues. Even after Bush/Gore in Florida the press continued to investigate and found Bush won. No one has done that for the problems with the 2020 election.
If "ballot harvesting" was not a real issue and an open innovation to fraud, we wouldn't have the phrase "ballot harvesting".
If the democrats didn't plan on some fraud, they wouldn't fight tooth and nail against insuring the voter rolls are up to date and insuring that illegals cannot vote.
Our current national election system is a mess and, depending on the margins, no one can be 100% sure.
"Trump has all the institutions against him. All he has is the people. That might be enough but its a fight to the finish."
Only some of the people. The dumb ones...and the self-interested rich ones who know they'll profit directly if Trump wins. There are a lot of dumb (and self-interested rich) people in the US, so Trump does have that chance to hope for victory. However, right now, it's certainly not a sure thing.
Cook. No one has really looked at it. The DOJ and FBI have never investigated. Local County/District Attorneys in big cities will never investigate. The NE AG has just charged a local notary with crimes in connection with a legal pot petition. The Dems cheat. Prove me wrong.
Millions of people watched as they closed the drapes, as they shut it down at night - using dumb excuses and they came back to count in secret.
Days and days of counting...
We used to vote in person with integrity. Now it's all messed up. But don't you dare complain.
Oddly, Cookie, Dershowitz says he can’t figure out what crime Trump was convicted of. Let’s be blunt. You’re lying.
"He's a unique communicator but his governing principles are firmly within the American tradition." Well, that's a...nice...way to describe a liar and narcissist. As for his governing principles, lying, deception, blame-casting and exaggerated, self-serving claims of great abilities and successes certainly are not foreign to the American tradition. Although, he seems to be the "greatest" example of this behavior. That's one superlative he does deserve.
281 to 257 Trump
I have no obligation to prove you wrong, as I have no obligation to prove "wrong" those who claim sprites visit them in the night, or that the earth is either flat or hollow. You (and your ilk) are making the extraordinary claims, but no one has yet been able to provide data that substantiates those extraordinary claims. It if exists, and if the courts refuse to entertain it--because they're all crooked, of course--then why not just do a run around the gatekeepers and publish it all?
Not a single one of these "official" investigations looked into where the actual fraud was- mail-in-ballots being signed by someone other than the registered voter. Signature verification was simply not done in the 2020 election in any jurisdiction ruled by Democrats and no one has won the right in court to look at those signatures and compare them to the registration signature.
Of course, with the ballots separated from the envelopes, there is no way to prove numerically that Biden won because of the fraud but we can make a statistical argument based on the rates of wrongfully accepted ballots. This is the examination that the Democrats have fought against tooth and nail.
Stevie does a great job of rehashing the Democrat talking points, summarizing 169 pages of nonsense from a man who is not authorized to be doing what he's doing as his appointment is unconstitutional. 169 pages of hearsay and novel legal arguments that show no crime, have no basis in law, and include statements that have been repeatedly disproven (like the myth that any lawsuits were thrown out on merits).
"Moderate Republicans" - that's the weasel phrase for Establishment Grifters who Prefer Dem Corruption So They Can Suck the Crumbs.
+1
"The communist tells us why Trump fights. No mention of your desire to kill him."
For someone who was a doctor and teacher, you're incredibly childish, making the kind of insults that six-year-olds are old enough to have outgrown. I have no desire to kill Trump, or for any others to kill him. What basis do you have to make such a stupid comment? Oh, I answered it already. You're incredibly childish.
Cook (and Inga!) now agree the assassination attempt was "staged." Nice way to deny your wishes.
Robert Cook said, "Hahahahaha! Oh, boy! Who is this "they?" I think it more likely the whole event was staged"
What the hell happened to you Robert? Just because the other side is getting a bit overwrought and believing far fetched things is no reason to throw your own sense right out the window.
bich thinks changing handles makes him/her sound smarter. Nope, still stupid.
Funny how they dont have any answers
Where did this so called tape come from if bannon never gave up the records
Michael K,
WTF is wrong with you? Who said that Trump’s assassination attempts were “staged”? What “wishes” are you speaking of? Are you truly senile or just nuts believing your own delusions?
"Oddly, Cookie, Dershowitz says he can’t figure out what crime Trump was convicted of. Let’s be blunt. You’re lying."
???? Dersh may not be able to figure out what crime Trump was convicted of--though I suspect he's just lying about that, as he's a Trump partisan--but Trump was convicted on 34 counts of falsifying business records. Dersh may disagree with the verdicts--and perhaps Trump will challenge the convictions and pursue appeals--but I am certainly NOT lying that Trump was convicted. It was in all the papers, you know.
"You don't have any proof!" is the left's go-to answer for all the things.
Inga chimes in to remind everyone she wants Trump dead and his supporters censored and jailed.
It looks like Achilles, Michael K and a few others are still lost down the rabbit hole, going deeper and deeper.
You just lied again, Cookie. Dershowitz is not a Trump partisan. He represented him, which is not the same thing. The NY trial was pure Soviet show trial. You’re a commie, so that sort of thing appeals to you. Every Dem involved in staging that farce will, hopefully, be prosecuted if Trump wins.
Barrack Obama in 2008 outperformed Joe Biden 2020 in thousands of counties. Joe Biden 2020 Outperformed Barrack Obama 2008 in a few hundred counties.
It is a mathematical impossibility that Joe Biden got more than 65 million legitimate votes.
Only a completely dishonest person pretends that 81 million people voted for Joe Biden .
No, Inga, the problem here is that you’ve embraced evil.
" or are you one of the millions who think he won? "
Heh. Yes.
Well, we already know you are mathematically illiterate Cook. You also completely lack self awareness.
Trump got 10 million more votes than Barrack Obama at the peak of Barrack's popularity.
You cling to the claim 81 million people voted for Joe Biden to hide from the fact that Donald Trump is smarter and a better politician than anyone in US history.
Kinda fun to watch Cook melt down in this infantile and embarrassing manner.
@politicalmath
"I have not seen one liberal or left-of-center person express even the tiniest discomfort that the debate moderators promised not to fact-check and then broke that promise
The Democrats are the Vader party"
As Trump famously said, “I have not yet begun to release the Kraken.”
Inga is too cowardly to join the SS herself.
But she clearly wants her political opponents killed and their supporters jailed and censored.
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