I think he practiced that line and received coaching on how to look and sound truly angry. I think his people believed this was the stake to drive into Trump's heart. But Biden looked old and ugly and weird, and Trump grabbed that stake and clonked him over the head with it.
***
"Clonked" seemed like exactly the right word, but I got distracted wondering if "clonk" is a real word. I'd never used that word before, even in a quote, in 20 years of blogging. Did "clank" and "clock" merge in my possibly addled brain?
But "clonk" has an OED entry. It's onomatopoeia that reached the status of word in the mid-20th century. It's an "abrupt, heavy sound as when something unresilient strikes a hard surface" or to make that sound. But I see at Wikipedia that "clonk" is also "a fishing tool which has been used in Europe to fish for Wels catfish"...
The air bubble produced when the clonk strikes the water is cut by the fork and this produces a unique sound similar to opening a wine bottle. This sound stimulates the defensive instinct in nearby catfish and they attack the "intruder," which in this case is the bait.
The metaphor potential is intriguing. Trump clonked Biden over the head... the head would need to be the water and the nearby catfish stimulated into disadvantageous defensiveness must be the CNN commentators and the panicked Democratic Party insiders who rushed in to incite them to attack Biden.
Posts
134 comments:
"You're the sucker! You're the loser!"
GET OFF MY LAWN YOU DOG-FACED PONY SOLDIER!
And is based on ANOTHER New Soviet Democratical Hoax.
You can be forgiven if you've lost track of the now dozens and dozens and dozens of debunked serial lefty hoaxes.
I hate to be the one to tell everyone else, but Trump is tighter on his messaging this time.
In 2016 and 2020 Trump was, let's use the word extemporaneous, in his speeches, in his times before the press, and in debates. That "clonk" is more powerful than you think.
Don't get me wrong Trump does not have a tight five nor an elevator pitch in him. But that clocking was good.
Biden's righteous anger routine has grown tiresome.
Cartoon “klonk” sound effect.
Well..... was it a WWII cemetery, or a WWI cemetery? And what did any of this have to do with his son ???
No, it was just Joe, spinning his well-worn lies again, 'my boy that died tragically in a fox hole smelling mustard gas....'
Joe: It was a WWII cemetery, commemorating the dead from DDay, and Joe - your kid died of brain cancer in the US. You're done, Joe. They set you up.
Clonk is a perfectly cromulent word, Althouse. Good on you.
I can't believe these morons thought zingers were going to help Biden. Thank you John Oliver, Jon Leibowitz, and Aaron Sorkin for molding idiots to believe that snappy one-liners can win elections.
Biden has always looked that way. Always.
I do think it weird, Althouse; all of the kerfuffle over Biden’s demeanor without any equivalent discussion of Trump’s crazed, unhinged lying. I suppose that “crazed, unhinged lying” isn’t news with Trump.
They haven't told Joe he is responsible for the deaths in Afghanistan, do you really think they care how delusional he looks?? Joe isn't there. Hussein is running the show with his people who are still installed in this joke of a fake administration. The 2020 election was stolen.
Yeah, one of those moments when anyone watching would think, and this is the guy with the nuclear football? The idea!
Remember when Joe Biden threw the sacrifices of our soldiers in Afghanistan on the burn pile?
That beau biden guy
one biden you can believe
he got his corn popped
Chuck at 935 - Yes, you are correct. Never wrote that before.
And oh by the way, here's the deal and on my word as a Biden,Joe has lost a stroke in his game. Or maybe he's had a stroke and that's no malarky.
I think I have Biden Speak down pat, but then I'm just a former dog faced pony soldier. Well we didn't have ponies in the infantry.
@Chuck - could you kindly provide some examples of Trump's "crazed, unhinged lies" ?
The jerk store called...
Chuck said...
I do think it weird, Althouse; all of the kerfuffle over Biden’s demeanor without any equivalent discussion of Trump’s crazed, unhinged lying. I suppose that “crazed, unhinged lying” isn’t news with Trump.
Actually it is that we don't think Trump was lying.
We think you are a liar.
And really everyone just ignores you now because you are just a stupid asshole. It is boring to deal with you. You are a stupid person who just moves from lie to lie and everything about you is disingenuous.
I appreciate the lesson you taught everyone on this blog.
But you would probably be best served just going and doing something else now. Nobody cares about the GOPe wing of the democrat party anymore. Your humiliation is complete.
Democratic cache for clunkers.
Biden often reminds me of the old Gilda Radner sketches where she would rant on something based on a total lie or misunderstanding. When told the basis of her rant was false, she’d contritely say “Never mind”.
Biden has never admitted his falsehoods or said “Never mind” because it doesn’t serve his corrupt purposes.
"Remember when Joe Biden threw the sacrifices of our soldiers in Afghanistan on the burn pile?"
Sure. But what do we care? Compared to Trump's lying lies, why should they matter?
Oh, and sarc off, seriously now, what did they sacrifice for?
Additionally, it didn't resonate because it simply doesn't sound like something Trump would say, at least in those circumstances.
Biden's angry demeanor in this clip looks very practiced and forced.
Chuck complains that Althouse is not blogging on the topics he thinks she should.
He can find an "equivalent discussion" on a thousand other blogs and any alphabet network. But that's not good enough for him. He wants to control the discussion here too.
Trump’s crazed, unhinged lying
examples? Please? ANY Examples? PLEASE?
Trump should have demanded Biden retract his many many instances of repeating the Charlottesville and Bleach hoaxes.
I'm one who thinks Trump may have said, from time to time, that Americans who served in Vietnam were played for suckers and losers. Not a fault on their part, a terrible series of decisions by the Swamp of the day. By comparison it's easy to say this about Americans who fought in the trenches in WW I. Nothing was achieved by that war except causing Germany to come back bigger and stronger, a Bolshevik Soviet Union playing the wild card role, lots of ethnic cleansing, and so on. This wasn't a case of fighting the Nazis twice. WWI: Germans not that different from us, and indeed their books became the height of fashion for intellectuals after this war.
Did Trump say as he cancelled an appearance at a WWI commemoration: those Americans were suckers and losers? I hope not--that's not the appropriate occasion to say that. Do all the Trump haters love veterans, Americans in uniform, the Vietnam war, all the years in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama's and Hillary's destruction of Libya, triggering a war that now extends across the Sahel--all the wars? Isn't there an eensy weensy possibility that Americans in uniform are being played for suckers and losers?
I might add: isn't there an excellent chance that John McCain, especially in the "Straight Talk Express" that had a lot of crude jokes about blacks and women, said he was among those who served in Vietnam who were played for suckers and losers? Again, Trump might have said it about him. Borrowing from I think Chris Rock: we don't want the guy who got caught, we want the guy who got away.
Now they need to coach Biden on being "badass"? My god, he really is slipping badly. That crude posturing has always come naturally to this inadequate yet incongruously vainglorious little man.
Watching the Sunday shows and the Democratic representatives are trying to excuse Thursday night as an outlier and we should judge Biden by his State of the Union performance or his speeches since Thursday night.
"I hate to be the one to tell everyone else, but Trump is tighter on his messaging this time.
In 2016 and 2020 Trump was, let's use the word extemporaneous, in his speeches, in his times before the press, and in debates. That "clonk" is more powerful than you think."
I agree the set up made Trump more disciplined. He also did not react to the insults. He had the comeback for the suckers and losers. He ignored the convicted felon and sexual assault bits. He ignored the morals of an alley cat. By the way I knew the alley cat was a worst insult.
The part that Trump react was the golf course . Then he almost fell over laughing which was perfect response and very spontaneous.
Am I the only one here who thinks "a zinger that just had to be zinged" sounds grammatically dubious? Not that "had to be zung" sounds any better.
>Chuck said...
...without any equivalent discussion of Trump’s crazed, unhinged lying.<
I keep reading lefties blathering about Trump's lies in the debate but I have yet to see any of them specifying what those lies were. I must say that I hadn't until now been informed that all of his debate lies were "crazed and unhinged." That bad?! How on earth did I miss them?
Has anyone discovered what these highly touted "lies" were?
The calmest most restrained Trump performance ever yet some anonymous loon wants to bust in hear and call Trump “crazy and unhinged.” As with all Leftist projection these two adjectives say more about the people ranting about Trump than they say about candidate Trump. We now have absolute proof that Biden’s supporters are in a frenzied panic. The words are written here by the panicked themselves.
The ones who circulated that blather wete silent at abbey gate hmm
I don't think I have ever used the word "clonk" in either speech or writing. Of course, I have heard and read it many times. I usually use bonk instead of clonk, or thump or knock.
Or clock over the head.
Chuck,
Why don't you compose us a 5000 word series of comments outlining Trump's lies during the debate with the accumulated proof you have. We would all like to read that.
"Has anyone discovered what these highly touted "lies" were?"
Asking this question is a good way to get the TDS afflicted to end the conversation and walk away muttering to themselves.
wendybar said...Hussein is running the show with his people who are still installed in this joke of a fake administration. The 2020 election was stolen.
And it's kinda of scary that Obama shows no real concern about this fall. The planned cheating must be massive and unprecedented.
Thats dems want to abort till birth
Biden thought he was debating Cornpop.
Sheesh. The best zinger they could come up with is a play on the "I know you are but what I'm I" schoolyard taunt? What's next, I am rubber you are glue?
Lloyd W. Robertson said...
Isn't there an eensy weensy possibility that Americans in uniform are being played for suckers and losers?
6/30/24, 10:07 AM
You can't watch an Army commercial on YouTube without hearing from an Iraq/ Afghanistan vet desperately warning the young not to buy into the lies.
Such comments often have hundreds, and frequently thousands of likes.
I don't know why Google deleted my last post of this. I assume the message is very inoffensive and not particularly new.
I keep reading lefties blathering about Trump's lies in the debate but I have yet to see any of them specifying what those lies were.
Whatever Chuck manages to come up with, if anything, will be easily matched 2 to 1 by clear lies by Biden. To start with:
1. Charlottesville
2. Injecting bleach
3. "I was endorsed by the Border Patrol."
I'm sure others can add more, as I only watched a few minutes of the debate.
Joey couldn't have been more feeble in that clip. He's the cheap fake POTUS.
What seems to be largely ignored is how well Trump planned the ambush of Biden. There were lots of worries about Trump agreeing to CNN and all the rules that seemed aimed at frustrating him. But he was sure enough about Biden's weakness that he was willing to risk it to get him there. The craftiness that Trump exhibited in getting that setup is impressive.
Narciso tags this lie "Thats dems want to abort till birth". If that's a lie please point me to the proof that the demos support any limit on abortion. I've not seen it. It's easy to say "But we are not for late-term abortion, period, period, period." like Biden did, but the Dems are opposed to all regulation of abortion as proved by their consistent votes against any abortion limits and their failure to propose any limits of their own.
"Trump grabbed that stake and clonked him"
Its a little sad that something so trivial should make a difference, but it does. DJT was sufficiently agile to adopt a debate strategy that confused his opponent, who ineptly attacked in a way he had planned but therefore misfired, giving Trump an opportunity to score and solidify the Dementia Joe narrative.
"I might add: isn't there an excellent chance that John McCain, especially in the "Straight Talk Express" that had a lot of crude jokes about blacks and women, said he was among those who served in Vietnam who were played for suckers and losers?"
I think the guy Biden is talking about heard something that is subject to a sympathetic reading but he rephrased it very unsympathetically. I would imagine that Trump said something like: What was it in these men (that is, these buried dead) that made them give up everything they had personally for what was only an abstraction. What was it? — service to others, patriotism, glory, God? Why did they do it? They lost everything.
This is a question I think most Baby Boomers asked in one form or another after the draft ended.
That accounts for the "losers" paraphrase. I suspect the "suckers" paraphrase came from some intelligent questioning of our military as it was used in Iraq and other places. How were so good young men willing to give themselves over to what was in the end a con from leaders who misunderstood and misjudged so much?
No some jackass at the atlantic told jeff goldberg the irony is all the supposed scribes who bought that and thd afghan bounties were silent after abbey gate
"I might add: isn't there an excellent chance that John McCain, especially in the "Straight Talk Express" that had a lot of crude jokes about blacks and women, said he was among those who served in Vietnam who were played for suckers and losers?"
I think the guy Biden is talking about heard something that is subject to a sympathetic reading but he rephrased it very unsympathetically. I would imagine that Trump said something like: What was it in these men (that is, these buried dead) that made them give up everything they had personally for what was only an abstraction. What was it? — service to others, patriotism, glory, God? Why did they do it? They lost everything.
This is a question I think most Baby Boomers asked in one form or another after the draft ended.
That accounts for the "losers" paraphrase. I suspect the "suckers" paraphrase came from some intelligent questioning of our military as it was used in Iraq and other places. How were so many good young men willing to give themselves over to what was in the end a con from leaders who misunderstood and misjudged so much?
If I recall the setup correctly, the "suckers and losers" hoax originated in an Atlantic article published during the 2020 campaign. Among other claims of disparagement of veterans during private conversations, when weather conditions forced the cancellation of the helicopter flight (I bet Raisi wishes his folks were as insistent about this as Trump's were, among other things) he was planned to make to a WWI cemetery in 2018 Trump supposedly made a comment that skipping the visit because his schedule didn't have time for a trip by motorcade was inconsequential because the war dead were 'suckers and losers'. This particular claim, specifically that Trump voluntarily canceled the visit rather than being forced by scheduling, published nearly two years after the supposed comment, was protested by some who would have been present. Trump's public disparagement of John McCain's war record, as well as his response to the father of an Army captain killed in Iraq who made a speech against Trump at the Democrat National Convention in 2016 are often cited as support for other comments made in private but similarly disputed.
BTW, since we all want to assume The Altantic wasn't just lying about Trump, as always, I will put in my two cents.
The Doughboys who died to "Make the world safe for Democracy" were played for suckers. We had no business in that war, and we made the world safe for Stalin and Hitler. All our victory in WW 1 Accomplished was the treaty of Versailles and setting the table for WW II, and even dumber and even more unneccessary war.
It be nice if 'murcians would learn from history, instead of going "Y-haw, we need to fall in line and support our commander in chief. We need to fight them foreigners" every time our power elite wants to play risk with real lives.
"I think the guy Biden is talking about heard something that is subject to a sympathetic reading but he rephrased it very unsympathetically."
As per the many other examples the Biden/dem/left crowd have done to Trump (Charlottesville, bleach, bloodbath, and on and on…).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg
Lies come in all shapes sizes and flavors.
Let's compare and contrast (paraphrasing):
(A) Trump: Grocery costs have gone up 2,3 4 times as much under Biden.
(B) Biden: No servicemen have died during my term in office.
(A)... not factually correct. Clear bombast for which Trump is famous. BUT polls show voters are unhappy with rising costs.
(B)...not factually correct. Horrifying, disgusting dismissal of the lives actually lost due to Biden's botched withdrawal from Afghanistan.
So when the media tells me Trump lied X times and ignores the FAR WORSE lies of Biden... well you really don't hate them enough.
https://grabien.com/story.php?id=479458
Chuck, you're right that Trump lies, a lot. But so does Biden, so I consider it a wash. I just wish the respectable media would call Biden on it as much as they correct Trump. I'd actually like them to do it for everybody.
"To dream the impossible dream ..."
Clonked with abuelas chanclas.
"2,3 4 times as much under Biden."
If you change "much" to "quickly" or "at a rate 2,3,4 times faster" It's not really a lie anymore, is it. It's only a "lie" if you assume that you know exactly what Trump meant by "much" and I guess to make it a lie, you have to say that he meant so many times "higher" which makes a lot less grammatical sense than the other interpretations, which have to do with the rate of rise of prices.
So maybe we need to find a different example of a "Trump lie."
"Clonk" sounds a lot like "crank" which was what Biden stepped on.
OK. It has been three hours since Chuck demanded that we discuss Trump's “crazed, unhinged lying," and it has been two hours and fifty five minutes since he was first called out on it. Seems like he's had plenty of time to compile all those lies, and share them with us along with a virtual shit eating grin saying, "told you so!" but, strangely, not another word.
Clonk is one of those words that owe their existence to the comic book, just like zing, zap, ka-pow, and whoosh. Every American knows zap is what you do to something or someone with a ray gun, that more conventional chemistry-powered weapons go ka-pow, and whoosh is the sound of Superman making a low strafing pass at Lex Luthor's corporate headquarters building.
Zing is different. It's very familiar, but its meaning is too subtle to concisely define. We know it better by specific examples, furthermore, zing is inherently passive. For example, Trump clonked the pathetic Resident with the same freakishly jejune insult Biden's hysterical handlers spent a week trying unsuccessfully to train their simian-brained zombie to repeat without sounding insane while speaking it. Zing is the sensation the television audience experienced as a result. Zing is something like the French term frisson, but more primal.
Why don't you compose us a 5000 word series of comments outlining Trump's lies during the debate with the accumulated proof you have. We would all like to read that.
Please don't do that.
You're going to give me finger sprain trying to skip over that shit.
Trump exaggerates, all the time, and he's a big bullshitter. "Best economy ever! Best president ever!" Etc. He's not a precise guy. So I ignore all that stuff.
I'm voting for Trump because I was around and paying attention in 2017 - 2020, and he did a far better job in office than Biden did from 2021 to 2024. Not even close. Biden is supposed to be a foreign policy expert, and he was a disaster, from the Afghanistan withdrawal to the freeing up billions to Iran which was used to fund Hamas terror. Moron. He opened up the border to millions of illegal immigrants, many of whom are unemployed and don't speak our language. Horrible idea. Doesn't believe in free speech, doesn't believe in equal protection, doesn't know what a person is, doesn't know what a woman is. Tried to have his political opponents jailed.
Biden is every much a bullshitter as Trump. Biden apparently believes his own bullshit. So while Trump and his fans would say, "Lock her up!" he and his justice department never went after Hillary Clinton, despite her numerous crimes and bad actions, because it's third world insanity to jail your opponents. Trump talks low road and acts high road. Biden promises a return to normalcy and then he does every evil action he can in secret.
I think Trump's "This is false, and is getting really old" response was about the best way to handle it. Getting in a shouting match doesn't work.
Joe checked his watch during a ceremony for fallen soldiers.
This line of attack on Trump is pointless.
Joe’s handlers are desperate.
Thats dems want to abort till birth
If Democrats love newborns so much, they could easily have voted for the Born Alive Survivors Protection Act.
They've classified these babies for termination and so they don't give a damn if they are born or unborn. See also the partial-birth abortion crowd, and Kermit Gosnell.
Wilbur:
He can find an "equivalent discussion" on a thousand other blogs and any alphabet network. But that's not good enough for him. He wants to control the discussion here too.
That is the entire point of the plants.
It has been quite a few years on this site that Democrats have asserted that Trump lies all the time.
However, I cannot recall any instances of successfully documenting his lies.
The ball is your court, lefties.
As to Biden's many lies about Trump, I think Joe Biden is delusional and believes those lies to be true.
Once again, RCOCEAN II shows his sneering contempt for ordinary Americans, who he imagines are all slack-jawed, swollen-faced hillbillies named Gomer, Festus and Jethro.
Chuck, you're right that Trump lies, a lot. But so does Biden, so I consider it a wash.
I think it might be more accurate to say Trump exagerates a lot and Biden lies a lot.
Am I the only one here who thinks "a zinger that just had to be zinged" sounds grammatically dubious? Not that "had to be zung" sounds any better.
may i submit two possibilities?
1) a zinger that just had to zing
2) a zinger that had zung
Lloyd W. Robertson:
Did Trump say as he cancelled an appearance at a WWI commemoration: those Americans were suckers and losers?
Not even Snopes falls for it: "However, there appeared to be no evidence of an audio or video recording of the remarks in question, nor was there any documentation, such as transcripts or presidential notes, to independently confirm or deny the alleged quotes' authenticity. "
It was in an article in the Atlantic quoting an anonymous source. You know, those highly reliable sources reporters who hate Trump use.
Zing went the cells in his melon
Ann Althouse:
That accounts for the "losers" paraphrase. I suspect the "suckers" paraphrase came from some intelligent questioning of our military as it was used in Iraq and other places.
Snopes:
Citing anonymous officials from the administration, the 2020 article by The Atlantic, titled, "Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are 'Losers' and 'Suckers',"
It was pulled whole cloth out of the writer's ass.
"Joe checked his watch during a ceremony for fallen soldiers."
Joe also said no troops have died while he was president.
"It was in an article in the Atlantic quoting an anonymous source. You know, those highly reliable sources reporters who hate Trump use."
Reporter for The Atlantic: My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who heard Trump say that Americans in uniform are being played for suckers and losers last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.
"The Doughboys who died to "Make the world safe for Democracy" were played for suckers. We had no business in that war, and we made the world safe for Stalin and Hitler."
Well, there was the small matter of German U-boat attacks on neutral shipping, which cost dozens of American lives as well as many others, and of course the sinking of the Lusitania (1200 lives, 128 Americans). The U-boats even came to US ports and laid mines.
Let's distinguish between the war itself, which the Americans helped bring to a swift conclusion and probably saved thousands of lives (granted, not American lives), and the armistice and Treaty of Versailles, which likely did lead to the rise of the Nazis and WWII.
@Quaestor - Both zing (1911) and whoosh (1856) predate comics although they probably got a significant booster from them.
Zing: 1911, "high pitched sound," of echoic origin. Slang meaning "energy, zest" is attested from 1918. Verb is from 1920; meaning "to deliver a stinging witticism or retort" is by 1975.
If you use your dead son as a prop over and over, including misrepresenting how he died, this angle loses effectiveness.
"Zing is the sensation the television audience experienced as a result. Zing is something like the French term frisson, but more primal."
Except that zing is also a synonym for "conk" or "clonk," and probably more widely used. You "zing" someone with a cutting remark or effective retort, which is often called a "zinger."
Saint Croix said :"So while Trump and his fans would say, "Lock her up!" he and his justice department never went after Hillary Clinton, despite her numerous crimes and bad actions, because it's third world insanity to jail your opponents. Trump talks low road and acts high road. Biden promises a return to normalcy and then he does every evil action he can in secret". I second that. Sums up the two men accurately. And also thanks to Saint Croix for providing more detail about the Democrats refusal to support any limits at all to abortion while simultaneously hollering about hos they don't support late-term abortions. I suppose I should add Slow Joe's "period, period, period!"
In what universe do you think that an abortion doctor cares about the baby's life and feels obligated to save it?
New York Times recounting the William Waddill murder trial.
Saline abortions -- where the doctor tries to burn the baby in the womb -- was a common late-term procedure in the 1970's. These babies were often born scalded and alive. See Philadelphia Inquirer.
"Well, there was the small matter of German U-boat attacks on neutral shipping, which cost dozens of American lives as well as many others, and of course the sinking of the Lusitania (1200 lives, 128 Americans). The U-boats even came to US ports and laid mines."
The Royal Navy blockaded Germany. American neutral ships were not allowed to sail to Germany. German children starved in the Turnip Winter.
So, its pretty shitty to whine about Germany's submarines, when the Royal Navy surface fleet was starving children and not allowing our ships passage and would in fact sink our ships if they attempted to go to Germany.
I agree why we went to war. This is just some important counter-balance.
UK navy did the same to Germany as the German navy did ot the UK: try to prevent arms and supplies from reaching their enemies.
Oh, and BTW, this is what the USA submarine force did against Japan in WW2.
We sanks ships going to Japan.
You "zing" someone with a cutting remark or effective retort, which is often called a "zinger."
The object of the cutting remark experiences the zing in a negative way, while the bystanders may experience zing in a positive way, depending on their attitude toward the protagonists. Zing is a perception. Zing as an action is purely a colloquial derivation. As self-appointed Althouse lexicographer, that's my ruling.
Ima clonk Biden with this. Now who's gettin' replaced, asshole?
And also thanks to Saint Croix for providing more detail about the Democrats refusal to support any limits at all to abortion
You're welcome.
I think Republican politicians have been caught flat-footed by Dobbs. They don't know how to talk about abortion or campaign on it.
Maybe this will help:
Pro-Life Talking Points
Who gives a shit. Pertinent questions are: Trump said he was going to end the Ukraine/Russia War immediately. By what means? My personal guess is that includes forcing a settlement that includes ceding a significant portion of Ukraine to Russia. I can't believe Putin would settle for less. What threats can Trump credibly make if necessary? What is he going to do re Israel/Gaza?
But no. Let's argue about what was meant by what was said by who or if they said it or what they meant if they did say it or whatever. Let's nitpick trivial ass crap while the world burns.
Look! Over there! Squirrel!!
Harun: "If you use your dead son as a prop over and over, including misrepresenting how he died, this angle loses effectiveness."
Indeed.
In fact, even in Dementia-Glitch boy's addled state, how he speaks of this over and over again, and sometimes catching himself and doing quick slight corrections though more times not, means that he knows he is lying for effect.
That was a outburst of true, uncontrolled and unjustified anger.
I've made the point here that Biden suffers from a mild to moderate case of senile dementia. He's not the "drooling vegetable" that some claim but he definitely has functional difficulties.
And, I've been surprised that his case has not progressed to a more severe form.
The last few months I've seen signs of that progression. The debate showed clearly that not only is Biden not the man he was four years ago, he is not the man he was four months ago.
It's quite likely that this will worsen significantly and rapidly over the next few months, if not weeks. The downhill slide has begun.
There won't be a second debate. He will withdraw soon as his family finally faces up to the advancing decline. He may resign his office, or not. There is certainly a bumpy road ahead of us.
I almost feel sorry for him.
Good example of a media termed "lie" by Trump.
IIRC one guy made the claim. Nineteen others refuted it.
So, of course, MSM counts that as Trump lied...
No matter how much - you know, the thing.
In all the days Biden did debate prep, I assume his team rehearsed some key lines. Did someone on the team say “hey, we checked out the suckers and losers story, and it’s bulletproof”? That person should be fired. (Sorry Jill.)
JAORE: "Good example of a media termed "lie" by Trump.
IIRC one guy made the claim. Nineteen others refuted it."
The one guy didn't even claim it. He merely said it sounded like something Trump would say. A too cute by half construction that mirrors the "has all the earmarks of a russian disinformation campaign" which allows for plausible deniability.
It's all gamed out by the New Soviet Democraticals before they feed it to their media hyenas.
Trump's response was persuasive:
1. What kind of moron would call dead soldiers losers in that setting?
2. The general who made the claim really disliked Trump and was, ultimately, fired for incompetence.
3. Nineteen witnesses contradict the statement and have stuck to their story.
It's obvious Biden lied at this point in the debate. And it's an ugly lie...
Rabel "almost" feels sorry for the dementia patient in the Oval Office. Rabel suggests a sudden increase in the rate of progression of Dementia Joe's mental and physical decline. I think both those are wrong.
Joe has exhibited dementia symptoms of "aphasia," the loss of words, and "derailment," the jumping off the tracks by his train of thought, and "disinhibition," loss of self control, touching women inapropriately in public, since before the 2020 campaign. Anyone close to him in 2019 must have known very clearly that Old Joe even then was experiencing some form of a clear cognitive decline. Surely his wife knew, absolutely, that Joe had problems then. Absolutely, his doctors knew. Absolutely, anyone working with him knew then.
I don't "almost" feel sorry for the dementia patient. I am angered by his presence in the White House. I don't think this is a suddenly appearing problem that will now rapidly get worse. I know it is something he exhibited during the 2020 campaign and even before. Joe got propped up to win the White House in 2020 because Hillary was such an utterly vile person in her behavior after losing to Trump and even more unelectable. Joe's campaign was in an act of political vileness by Obama, Jill Biden, and the Democrat Party. Joe and all his appartchniks should be denounced for their elder abuse, and then for their policies, and driven from anything resembling authority. Tar and feathers for one and all optional, but appropriate.
There is nothing to forgive, nothing to feel sorry about, nothing to see except their vileness.
Planned Zingerhood... karmic irony.
I have made comments about the leadership during Viet Nam far worse than anything Trump might have said. I have, however, never disparaged the troops who, draftees or enlisted, did their duty. I suspect that Trump, who seems to be very good about acknowledging the people who work for him in his buildings would be the same way. He lived through it, as I did, and I doubt very much that he would blame the debacle of Viet Nam on the troops.
Who in the US is still buying the Beau died in combat BS?
@Pacwest Can you think of any other way of ending the conflict in Ukraine other than by recognizing the reality on the ground as it is today? The important consideration is that there is no way that Ukraine can push Russia out its current position, and if the war continues ad infinitum Ukraine is going to run out of bodies to oppose the Russians. Yes there need to be guarantees for what remains of Ukraine (which is most of it at this point). Those guarantees must be real and enforceable unlike the nuke deal we reneged on. As in any serious negotiation both sides have to win something. In this case Ukraine would get to stop the bleeding; Russia could claim a win but the end result must be that the penalty for the Russians breaking the peace has to be severe and automatic. The question there is: do we and NATO have the balls to make such a deal?
@minnisota farm guy
No I can't. I agree with what you say except the implied reference we need NATO on board and I think Trump may cut them out if they won't come along. I think we have enough power yet for that.
I think people underestimate how far Trump is willing to go to stop the slaughter of 100s of thousands of ordinary people caught up in a meat grinder not of their own making.
my boy that died tragically in a fox hole smelling mustard gas....'
Joe: It was a WWII cemetery, commemorating the dead from DDay, and Joe - your kid died of brain cancer in the US.
==============
I rate both True > cancer from gas in foxhole from Joe diapers
Althouse at 11:00 (and 11:06 repeated):
...
I think the guy Biden is talking about heard something that is subject to a sympathetic reading but he rephrased it very unsympathetically. I would imagine that Trump said something like: What was it in these men (that is, these buried dead) that made them give up everything they had personally for what was only an abstraction. What was it? — service to others, patriotism, glory, God? Why did they do it? They lost everything.
This is a question I think most Baby Boomers asked in one form or another after the draft ended.
That accounts for the "losers" paraphrase. I suspect the "suckers" paraphrase came from some intelligent questioning of our military as it was used in Iraq and other places. How were so many good young men willing to give themselves over to what was in the end a con from leaders who misunderstood and misjudged so much?
So that's a lovely articulation by Althouse. Complex, nuanced, empathetic. And as such, it sounds just like Althouse and also NOTHING like Trump. Trump would never, could never, even think such thoughts much less articulate them. So let's start there. There's no evidence that Trump has an actual explanation that is anything like what Althouse wrote.
And it is inconcievable that Trump would ever have such an explanation.
Trump's reaction to all of it is purely "Trump":
1. Deny he said it.
2. Attack, attack, attack anyone who reports that he said it.
3. Claim that 19 people who work for him back him up entirely in his denial.
4. Double down, and then triple down; claim that it would be totally monstrous for anyone to say such a thing so of course he didn't say it.
Well, Althouse, former White House Chief of Staff General John Kelly is your guy. Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic reported the story, and he is sticking by it with multiple sources. Then, asked about it further, General Kelly further confirmed it in a statement to CNN. I hope that for good measure, and particularly for people like you who might be persuaded to NOT vote for Trump even if you won't vote for Biden, that in the coming days General Kelly does it again, on live television. Re-confirming the story. Hopefully on the Fox News cable channel.
And please remember; this language sounds just like Trump. It is why General Kelly favored removing Trump via the 25th Amendment after the Capitol riot. It is part and parcel of another monstrous Trump story where Trump and Kelly were at the graveside of Kelly's KIA son, a Marine Corps First Lieutenant who stepped on a land mine while leading a platoon in Afghanistan. Trump's question as they visited the cemetery was, "I don't get it. What was in it for them?"
A question for the Althouse readership. Does Biden actually believe that allegation is true or is he hoping that by him saying it WE will believe that allegation? Is Biden lying here or is he mistaken, or just malicious ?
Hate to break this news, but there are plenty of normal food staples whose prices HAVE doubled since 2019: for example, milk has gone from $2.50 to $5.00, breakfast cereals have more than doubled if you look at the price-per ounce (disguised by the narrower boxes). For a while 8' 2x4s had tripled, from $3 to $9 (I haven't had to buy any since February, so I don't know what the price is now).
So even though Trump obviously meant that the RATE of increase in prices has been 2, 3, or 4 times under Biden's inflation than it was under Trump, it's not a lie that there are commonly purchased items whose prices are 2 and 3 times higher. Not really a "lie" then, is it?
And that's my problem with the whole "Trump lied constantly" refrain that the parrots are repeating everywhere. When pressed to identify something he lied about, they say things like "He said the economy is bad," which, (1) it actually is very bad in many sectors, and (2) that economy being "good" or "bad" is ALWAYS to a degree an opinion, because it could always be better or worse. Walter Mondale ran on the Reagan economy being "bad" for certain people, for God's sake; Bill Clinton turned a sharp but short recession into "the worst economy since the Great Depression."
I certainly don't see Trump--or any national politician in my lifetime--as some compulsive truth-teller, but in this case I would like someone to point out an ACTUAL lie that is (1) not obvious hyperbole that only a senile person with a drool cup would take as a factual claim; (2) not a b.s. obviously fake story for which there has never been any actual evidence like Charlottesville or "suckers and losers"; (3) is not completely and utterly trivial, like "Trump said his Inauguration crowds were bigger than Obama's"* or "Trump said he's only 215 lbs."
*That he dared to insult your imaginary boyfriend 7.5 years ago and you are still not over it is very sad. You may want to seek therapy for that.
seriously now, what did they sacrifice for?
=================
that is serious gatweay verbge to start call them loser scker
I always imagined Clonk as being spelled Klonk. I see as I type this that spell-check is flagging the latter as a mistake. Oh well... live and learn.
Dick never served in the military. As he's told us previously: he's no sucker and had better things to do.
Dick has certainly told us over and overall again in many different ways over the past dozen years that he thinks anyone serving in the military is a loser and a sucker
John Henry
Dick never served in the military. As he's told us previously: he's no sucker and had better things to do.
Dick has certainly told us over and over again in many different ways over the past dozen years that he thinks anyone serving in the military is a loser and a sucker
John Henry
I had a patient with type 1 diabetes. She was an RN and took excellent care of her self, A1c 6.6, BP normal, LDL in the high 60s. Fortunately she did not have LP(a) elevation. Stable for years and then all of a sudden he conditions spun out of control. Finally sent her to a neurologist - early Lewey Body Dementia (Robin Williams cause of death). I am reminded of her when I see Biden even a couple of years ago vs now.
The only absolutely provable lie I've heard from Trump was when he said he "had the greatest grandkids in the world" because I know for a fact that my grandkids are the best, cutest, and smartest in the world.
Over on x.com there are multiple postings of and interview with Democrat Governor Northam of Virginia talking about dealing with babies that are born live during an attempted abortion. He clearly endorsed letting them die if that's what the mother wanted. Yes, democrats are in favor of abortion until after birth.
mikee:
... touching women inapropriately in public, since before the 2020 campaign.
Waaaaay before and many weren't women yet. I'm reminded of that poor girl trying to pull away as her shit-grinning father stood behind them.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/04/GL-COMPOSITE-biden-v2.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=1200&h=800&crop=1
(Blame Blogger if double post)
You lie, PacWest,
My grandkids are the greatest in the entire universe of all grandkids ever!
John Henry
Careful John Henry.
I may have to send Corn Pop over to visit you. He's one bad dude.
"seriously now, what did they sacrifice for?"
In your theory of World History, who do you figure would be Kaiser of the Greater German Empire right now?
One of Willie's great-grandchildren?
Leora said...
Over on x.com there are multiple postings of and interview with Democrat Governor Northam of Virginia talking about dealing with babies that are born live during an attempted abortion. He clearly endorsed letting them die if that's what the mother wanted. Yes, democrats are in favor of abortion until after birth.
“Multiple postings”!
Well there you have it! Case closed. Under the evil leadership of Virginia Governor Ralph Northam (who - checks notes - hasn’t been in office for 2 1/2 years), babies would be regularly killed under physician supervision. Except that hasn’t happened, and the entire kerfuffle is a classic case of right-wing internet fuckwads taking a single live radio interview completely out of context.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ralph-northam-virginia-abortion-952598071326
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/fact-check-virginia-governors-2019-comments-about-abortion-bill-are-missing-co-idUSKBN27D2GS/
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/meme-misquotes-virginia-governor-on-abortion-bill/
https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/virginia/trump-debate-fact-check-virginia-governor-after-birth-abortion-ralph-northam/291-9bf4d577-863f-4f31-9e63-11c55cdada53
https://www.vox.com/2019/3/11/18246702/trump-abortion-ralph-northam-virginia-green-bay
"I hate to be the one to tell everyone else, but Trump is tighter on his messaging this time."
Whatever else Trump is, he's a seasoned television performer. Restricting him to 30 second answers must bring that professional part of him out. When the director calls "Action!" you have to hit your marks and deliver in "reality" TV.
Which elected Democrat has come out in favor of even European-style limitations on elective abortion, Chuck? Which has been willing to say, "Through resuscibility at about 22 weeks/through the second trimester/through any point short of 40 weeks, the decision to have an abortion should be solely between a woman and her doctor. And, by the way, not between a woman's pimp and her doctor, or a girl's stepfather and her doctor, or a girl's angry parents and her doctor"?
Which Democrat statement or legislative action, besides Biden's one-line statement that Democrats don't support late-term abortion, would give you the impression that they don't support late-term abortion?
Gov. Northam's statement of what would happen if a fetus intended to be aborted were to survive the procedure certainly gives the impression that a living baby, umbilical cord cut and clamped, would be left to die if the mother wanted it that way. He certainly did not say that the mother would be told that she was now out of the loop and that the baby would be given whatever care the hospital could give to enable its survival.
Your right that doctors don't "regularly" kill babies and (we hope) that the specific scenario he was asked about "hasn't happened" (as far as we know - but have we learned nothing from COVID and from the whistleblowers at Tavistock and, to my horror, Texas Children's?). But apparently if it were to happen, elected Democrats would be absolutely in lockstep about what should be done.
At least, none has said otherwise, as far as I know.
Watching our LLR-democratical Chuck cling so desperately to his delusional debunked hoaxes is so eerily reminiscent to his desperate defenses of both Dick Durbin (who called US troops "gestapo") and Dick "Da Nang" Blumenthals multi-year repeated Stolen Valor lies about serving in Viet Nam.
But then again, that's what New Soviet Democraticals do, isn't it?
What is that precise Solzhenitsyn quote about how the lefties/commies/LLR-lefties lie, everyone knows they are lying, yet still they lie?
The good news? All the lies are collapsing in near real time now. The New Soviet Democraticals are going to have to "win" in Nov (and we know how they will do that, don't we?) and then go the full and final steps to criminalize dissent, including removing Musk from X, Tesla and SpaceX. The last bastion of free speech has to be taken down and with the hack Delaware Judge in place, we can expect the full lawfare treatment for Musk to steal his companies and hand them to democratical insiders.
From Chuck's AP fact check:
THE FACTS: Social media users are misrepresenting years old comments Northam made about abortion in Virginia on WTOP, a news radio station serving the Washington Metropolitan area.
“If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” Northam says in a video from the 2019 interview being shared online. “The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
But Northam was only addressing what happens in cases where a baby is born with severe deformities and has a low chance of survival.
His comments were part of a response to a question about whether he supported a bill proposed in 2019 by Virginia House Del. Kathy Tran, which would have loosened the state’s restrictions on abortion later in pregnancy, including the third trimester.
Republican Del. Todd Gilbert had recently asked Tran, a Democrat, during a committee hearing whether her legislation would let a pregnant woman who is dilating request an abortion if a doctor certified that the woman’s mental health was impaired.
“My bill would allow that, yes,” Tran said in response. She later told The Washington Post that she “misspoke” and that she should have said “clearly, no, because infanticide is not allowed in Virginia, and what would have happened in that moment would be a live birth.”
In his full answer on WTOP, Northam explains that third trimester abortions are “done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that’s nonviable.” He then gives the hypothetical example about a mother in labor.
If the fetus is nonviable, why does it need to be aborted?
If a fetus has a low chance of survival, that is not the same thing as nonviable.
I think it must be more accurate to say that the fetus may be very very inconvenient, for everyone - the mother or parents, the medical community, the community at large.
So the fact check does little to address what Democrats think is the correct course if a fetus survived abortion. It says that an abortion when the woman is fully folded would not be permissible because that's a "live birth" (which it's not, necessarily), but has Northam's statement been withdrawn?
It does nothing at all to counter Trump's contention that Democrats support abortion up to the moment of birth. And he should have let it rest there. The "even after birth" was not necessary; the only anatomical difference between my son before his birth at 37 weeks and after his birth was the umbilical cord.
I wonder if, like his hero, Joseph Robinette Biden, LLR-democratical Chuck also experiences some sundowning at times which explains the angry outbursts, inability to stay on message, repeating long debunked lies, etc?
That accounts for the "losers" paraphrase.
Why should we put any credence at all into these supposedly inflammatory statements?
After:
-- Dan Rather's "fake but accurate" Bush ANG hoax.
-- The Democrat Party's "Russia Collusion" hoax.
-- The media's "fine people" hoax.
Why wouldn't "suckers and losers" be put into the hoax file unless someone can bring actual proof?
It's going to have to be the American people who demand it, since the media can't help themselves from running with the "too good to check" story of the week.
if you don't let go, everything you've done over your long life will count for nothing as against this one cataclysmic wrong — letting Trump back into the Oval Office.
More karma for Biden. Destroyed by the irrational hatred he helped create.
The old geezer had a zinger ready to fling--sorta like a monkey flinging poo. But he lost a step many moons ago and can no longer fling it like he could in days gone by.
Kevin: "Why should we put any credence at all into these supposedly inflammatory statements?
After:
-- Dan Rather's "fake but accurate" Bush ANG hoax."
Little known fact: Little Tater Liar (Brian Stelter) on CNN's first episode of "Reliable Sources" with him as host (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL) had, as one of his first guests......none other than Dan "fake but accurate" Rather!!!
Now, how perfect is that? And by "perfect", I mean perfect.
Interesting Note: Little Tater Liar (Brian Stelter) has been one of LLR-democratical Chuck's key go to link sources!
Even more LOL's!
You may have noticed, Biden resorts to that anger routine fairly often. He uses it to energize himself--like a shot of caffeine--otherwise he'd drift off.
I suspect his sometimes creepy behavior toward girls may serve the same function.
Again with the Beau.
Lucien said...
In all the days Biden did debate prep, I assume his team rehearsed some key lines. Did someone on the team say “hey, we checked out the suckers and losers story, and it’s bulletproof”? That person should be fired. (Sorry Jill.)
6/30/24, 1:49 PM
I believe the left truly hate Trump so much that anything negative or disparaging they automatically believe to support their hatred - they believe themselves to be ‘good’ thus there has to be clear evidence that Trump is bad.
This is why these lies are just so pervasive on the left. To them, it is obvious it cannot be any other way.
The unfortunate effect is that the whole purpose of government is totally lost on them. It is not about governance but power over others.
He zang him with a zinger and now Biden’s been zung.
Aw, let the guy go and play all the golf he wants to. He's had enough and we have, too.
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