WaPo reports.
Here's a WaPo article from yesterday about "Why Trump is now against a TikTok ban."
Trump tried to ban TikTok when he was in office before a court blocked the effort toward the end of his presidency. But... [l]ast week, the former president argued that a TikTok ban would primarily help Zuckerberg and Meta....
His reversal now is also partially the product of a lobbying campaign connected to a GOP megadonor with connections that reach into Trump’s inner circle. The investment company of billionaire Jeff Yass owns 15 percent of ByteDance.... Yass is the biggest donor to the conservative organization Club for Growth, which is currently paying former Trump senior counselor Kellyanne Conway to defend TikTok on Capitol Hill and which recently reconciled with Trump after a feud last year....
[Sources] said Conway told Trump that the app was popular and that many of his supporters were on it — an argument echoed by other pro-TikTok allies — and that they were not being censored in their support of him....
Another figure who played a role in his decision was David Urban, a longtime adviser and a registered lobbyist for ByteDance. Trump advisers say Urban — who ran Pennsylvania for Trump in 2016 and has kept relationships in his orbit — has pitched TikTok’s effectiveness as a campaign tool for some time to people around Trump, and he was spotted at Mar-a-Lago last week, where he met with Trump....
Trump’s preexisting dislike of Zuckerberg appears to have meshed well with the defenses of TikTok he’s hearing from trusted sources....
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57 comments:
It wouldn't be the first time an enemy weaponized our open society against us and it won't be the last. But still, I haven't worked through the issues enough to decide how I feel about banning a popular social media site.
Tik Tok legislation / ban or whatever is just a trial run to inevitably put the clamps on Elon Musk and X.
For those in power, free speech doesn't protect their "democracy"
As with the Huawei situation, there seem to be pertinent details that are not being made public.
I suspect that it goes beyond privacy. It may have something to do with the way that the algorithms pushing content have and will be used to advance CCP plans for the US.
Of course, let's now consider the way US big tech does the same thing.
Yesterday on X:
Tucker Carlson "In a classified briefing this afternoon, attended by officials from the Biden Justice Department, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez claimed that Elon committed “election interference” in 2022 by “changing the algorithms” on X to alter the results of the midterms that year.
Not coincidentally, the anti-TikTok legislation now being debated on the Hill would allow the federal government to force the sale of any social media platform that interferes in elections. Just so you know what’s coming in 2025."
Elon Musk Reply to Tucker: "Actually, I made the algorithm open source and neutral to all parties, but of course that *is* “election interference” by her standards"
Democrats like AOC want to have full control of the printing presses.
"Some lawmakers have expressed concern it may run afoul of the Constitution by infringing on millions of Americans’ rights to free expression and by explicitly targeting a business operating in the United States."
It will. It does. Another stupid piece of legislation trying to regulate the stupidity of idiot parents and bored/lonely wine aunts. Never assign to malice what can easily be assigned to American's addictive personalities.
So Trump's flip flop on Tik Tok is purely transactional? What a surprise!
Heard Congressperson on Fox say Tik Tok CEO said they didn't use geotargeting.
When bill was up, TT blocked it for users who lived in the district of committee members. The TT users had to call their Rep and use the TT phone app to get use restored.
Looks like TT CEO committed perjury.
We have to stop being played by China.
So the courts stopped Trump. But Biden's all in?
Also did the paper explore the nefarious reasons for Biden's position? I suspect not.
IRC Biden banned TicToc on government computers and phones while saying he would not ban it universally.
Also, didn't Biden call n "influencers" to pump up his standing with young voters? were some/many/all of these on Tic-Toc? Yet it's Trump that changed position for political reasons.
Newsweek reported on the latest Fox News Poll of voters 30-years-old and younger:
The poll found that 51 percent of voters younger than 30 years old plan to vote for Trump in November, while only 45 percent said they intend to support Biden. This would be a sizable shift from 2020, when Biden won a large share of young voters. The poll surveyed 1,262 registered voters from February 25 to 28 [2024] and had a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points.
Tik Tok is very popular with the 30 and under crowd. I'd imagine this has something to do with now trying to ban or restrict Tik Tok.
They mention that Trump switched positions but neglect to mention that Biden rescinded Trump's anti-Tiktok order when he took office.
According to a friend who is a masters degree cyber security expert and used to dox terrorists for a living, TikTok is Chinese Swiss cheese app.
Here is her comment about legislation
The TikTok stuff is going to make my head explode. It’s a shell game that gives federal government more power and authority over user data, just transferring the abuses from China to the US president. Which is currently OBiden.
"I suspect that it goes beyond privacy." I suspect it's because Facebook and Insta and Google play nice with the CIA and FBI and it sure would be nice if US citizens were forced to use platforms that play nice with the CIA and FBI.
After Twittergate, anyone who supports this is insane. I honestly care much less about China spying on me than my government. China can't throw me in jail and audit my taxes.
The TikTok stuff is going to make my head explode. It’s a shell game that gives federal government more power and authority over user data, just transferring the abuses from China to the US president. Which is currently OBiden.
Fucking BINGO!
I still don't see how the government has the power to prevent Americans from accessing TikTok's overseas servers without mandating firewalls from ISPs. How this is constitutional is a mystery to me. However, TikTok isn't the real target of this legislation- Elon Musk's Twitter is the real target, but the Democrats can't say that just yet- this is the trial balloon.
Pre-election: No ban.
Post election: Ban.
The bill gives the POTUS extremely broad powers to determine if a social media platform is a target for a forced divestiture, so Twitter is next. Of course that power will be used to back censorship demands on unpopular opinions.
Europe basically does all of this already. Which is why Europeans are still supportive of arming the ultranationalists in Ukraine.
I try to stay clear of the anti Israel stuff that is floating around on the internet, a lot of it is pretty bad, and much of it is flat out antisemitic, but if you google "Israel" and "TikTok problem," it makes you wonder just how much control this foreign power has over our government.
Most articles are talking about the horrible content China pushes into the data streams of our youth, and Begley notes another feature above, the ability to push notify or geotarget users. Those abilities were on full display this week as TT urged users to call their Congresscritters and make threats.
But it is the data-mining that China does via TT that is most dangerous and extremely pervasive across almost ALL apps on mobile phones. All the tech CEOs have lied to Congress about how they handle personal data, usually asserting that they "anonymize it," which is a blatant lie for most of the data tied to your unique device.
China takes it extremely far in that they keylog everything: passwords, credit card numbers, screen lock codes, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you type on your device, as well as anything you SAY within a few dozen feet of your phone or PC. It is all transcribed and bundled up linked to you the user. It is pervasive in mining the data that every other app has gathered from you too and transmitting every single bit of it back to Beijing, to the spymasters of the CCP. China is creating a huge database of every American user of TT, what you like and don't like, where you shop and for what, your habits good and bad, who you talk to, where you go, how and when you sleep.
If you shop at Target or use their app, for example, it maps your movements through the store and TT knows what you linger over, what you purchase, what you later return, what you say about the goods and services. This and much much more is why the TT app is banned on government phones and computers and even private devices in Federal government work areas (which I have a sinking feeling Biden has relaxed too much, given his campaign's reliance on TT to spread his message). This law might be a piece of crap, but the problem it is supposed to address is very real, very dangerous in the hands of the CCP.
"We have to stop being played by China."
And, we have to stop being played by our own security state, which uses legitimate issues to usher in a whole host of attacks on freedom of speech and information unrelated to Chinese ownership of TikTok.
Why was it pushed through in four days without any time for a real debate?
China is the only? State with practical and actual slavery. Of Muslims, no less. Greens like it for environmental arbitrage. Globalists like it for labor arbitrage. Transnationals like it for taking over Tibet through immigration reform. Deja vu. Democrats like it for sustaining redistributive change (e.g. Obamacares, shared student debt).
The TikTok Bill
Note the common thing that is missing: "and for other purposes."
That's because its not.
...
For those who say it can be "broadened under interpretation" no, it cannot
...
And for those who claim this could potentially be used against, say, a firm in Britain, no, once again, that is a lie
The bill and references are accessible from the linked page.
It may have something to do with the way that the algorithms pushing content have and will be used to advance CCP plans for the US.
Of course, let's now consider the way US big tech does the same thing.
Animal House...
Otter: He can't do that to our pledges.
Boon: Only we can do that to our pledges.
Donald Kerry Trump - "I was against TikTok before I was for it. And so were all my sycophantic followers who now suddenly don't see the Wuhan Communist Chinese to be a threat anymore."
The legislation would not ban TikTok.
It’s a forced sale, not a dissolution or ban. Free speech such concerns carry no weight with me in this circumstance.
- Rafe
TikTok, as controlled by a foreign state, should not be available for use in this way within the U.S.
That doesn't mean that in the process of banning it, those involved won't seek to gain for their own positions. Of course they will. It doesn't make it less necessary, it just means you have to be careful in how the ban is executed.
8/8/22
Biden DOJ raided Trump over lawfully possessed presidential records
11/2/22
Biden’s attorneys secretly collude with Biden DOJ over Biden’s stolen classified records
11/18/22
Garland appoints special counsel—against Trump
1/12/23
Biden caught, so Garland appoints Hur
Solution: Ban TikTok!
Trump & his donors should buy Tik Tok
but if you google "Israel" and "TikTok problem,"
Big deal. If you google "Israel" and "anorexia" you will come to believe that TikTok invented eating disorders. It's a moral panic. W
but if you google "Israel" and "TikTok problem,"
Big deal. If you google "TikTok" and "anorexia" you will come to believe that TikTok invented eating disorders. It's a moral panic. W
if you are wondering after divesting how will US version differ from Chinese?
according to Ace of Spades
Well, there's no doubt that Red China is using TikTok both for purposes of espionage as well as a really vicious demoralization campaign against America's children. China has its own version of TikTok, but that platform encourages pro-social activities, studying, being dutiful to one's parents, etc.
The American version of TikTok is 24/7 transgender conversion therapy.
Oh, and the Chinese version of TikTok imposes a time limit on usage, so that children do not spend their entire f***ing young lives endlessly scrolling through crap content.
Althouse hardest hit.
Pro Putin and pro China. And you call Democrats commie pinko red diaper babies, lolx10,352,7860,658
The American guy who owns billions wants a result.
I think this will help him get some money out...
Wait and see, the first thing Beiden will do is to ban VPN’s, or if they give a shit about appearances, will require a back door that lets Government and Meta to see through them.
Narcissistic insta-thots already vote 95% Democrat if they vote at all, and kids don't vote, so Republicans don't run much of a risk for getting rid of TikTok.
Democrats don't see it that way, and obviously want to use it as a stalking-horse for unreviewable censorship of anything on the Internet that challenges leftist hegemony. We can't risk giving the enemy scum such powers.
I think the current treatment of Tiktok is sufficient. Let the silly young women do their dances and duck-lips faces on it, but forbid it from any government computer, and encourage it to be firewalled off from any corporate intranet.
Narcissistic insta-thots already vote 95% Democrat if they vote at all, and kids don't vote, so Republicans don't run much of a risk for getting rid of TikTok.
Democrats don't see it that way, and obviously want to use it as a stalking-horse for unreviewable censorship of anything on the Internet that challenges leftist hegemony. We can't risk giving the enemy scum such powers.
I think the current treatment of Tiktok is sufficient. Let the silly young women do their dances and duck-lips faces on it, but forbid it from any government computer, and encourage it to be firewalled off from any corporate intranet.
Another thing I understand but don't quite agree. This opens the door to censoring other social media platforms. It is also not like our country is above using social media platforms to bias large populations of people in this country and others.
If you do not live in china and, like joe biden and the rest of the gov, you’re also worried that the chinese government will steal your data and you’re not like an ambassador or a glamorous international spy then your brain has been turned into a fine powder by propaganda.
Seems like some have drummed up a hysterical over-reaction to a minor problem and are using it to ram a Trojan Horse bill through Congress which will further amplify the Federal government's ability to control the public.
We're being played, for sure.
Dave Begley said...
"When bill was up, TT blocked it for users who lived in the district of committee members. The TT users had to call their Rep and use the TT phone app to get use restored."
Could you explain what "When bill was up, TT blocked it for users" means and possibly cite a source? It seems to mismatch what I understand about TT and it's technical capabilities, and the reason for the action doesn't make sense.
If you can verify such a direct act of interference in US politics you might change my mind about the threat.
I don't have a problem with forcing divestiture from ByteDance. TikTok is a terrible app, both in how it spies on its users and how the algorithm psychologically manipulates users. The problem with the current bill is that it doesn't really seem to address either of those problems. It seems to say that spying on and manipulating users is just dandy as long as it is an American company doing it. While that is probably true in some realpolitik sense, I think the bigger problem is that we allow these apps to collect any of this data in the first place, and that we allow them to use that data to manipulate us.
If politicians were serious about the threat that these apps pose, they would allow users to dictate exactly how app companies can collect information about them, prohibit the use of algorithms in targeting users, and create severe penalties for companies that violate users' trust.
The TikTok ban is such performative nonsense. If Congress really cared about privacy, if they did they'd pass a privacy law and regulate data brokers. If you’re concerned about manipulation, then better educate the public so that they’re not so easily influenced by an app made to share short videos.
The libertarian in me says let the market decide. The government could force foreign interests to divest I assume. Today it’s Tik Tok, tomorrow X.
Rabel said...
Dave Begley said...
If you can verify such a direct act of interference in US politics you might change my mind about the threat.
=================
have you guys heard about something called lobbying industry? that lobs cash $$ into certain pockets?
Looks like China found work-run-a-round by WEAPONIZING direct representative citizen participation
Trump says TikTok a national security threat but young people will 'go crazy' without it
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/trump-says-tiktok-national-security-threat-young-people-go-crazy-without
"There’s a lot of good and there's a lot of bad. Without TikTok, you can make Facebook bigger, and I consider Facebook to be an enemy of the people. Frankly, there are a lot of people on TikTok that love it. There are a lot of young kids on TikTok who will go crazy without it. There are a lot of users. There’s a lot of good and there’s a lot of bad with TikTok," Trump told "Squawk Box."
Trump's position on TikTok is that he doesn't like Mark Zuckerberg. Completely unserious stuff. You'd think they would be embarrassed to write that out but I guess they know their viewers.
From what I've read about the bill, it sounds awful. Will it give the president the authority to shut down apps that "Interfere" with elections? This sounds like Fascism to me.
I tried to post on this but of course "Whoops! An error."
Anyway... I think the lopsided vote could be explained by TikTok encouraging users to contact their US Representatives and the those representatives getting death threats. The Chinese use "Wolf Warrior" diplomacy and get nations ready to oppose them. Somehow they don't get that putting people's backs up with death threats might backfire.
Does anyone get how comprehensive is the database that the CCP has built? That database not only identifies the comsymps, the useful idiots, the idiots, the CCP enemies, the gender nuts, and the members of the military who can be influenced.
Do we have a remotely comparable tool to access and influence the Chinese?
I once again recommend the recently published Blood Money by Peter Schweizer. The bad guys are punching above their weight.
When you get both rides to quickly agree to something, be worried. Very worried.
Meh.
But I'm sure when I phone in my order to the 'East China Inn' my call is being monitored.
Howard said...
"Pro Putin and pro China. And you call Democrats commie pinko red diaper babies, lolx10,352,7860,658"
Putin threatens nuclear war again. We didn't have this problem with Putin untill you went to the polls and stuffed the box for Biden. I know. You look at this as a win. Because........I don't know. There are worms in your head?
Allowing the government and nominally American high-tech companies to control what the people can see, hear, and read has worked out so well so far, seems like a great idea to legally extend this by mandating it to an entire platform. (end sarc)
Trump’s TikTok reversal suggests his China policy is for sale ~ WaPo
“ByteDance worth more than $20 billion. Yass’s offer of a détente is of direct benefit to Trump and his campaign, as the Club for Growth is now expected to spend millions in the 2024 cycle in support of Trump.”
Follow the money….
Trump tried to ban TikTok and then figured out that there was an out — that he could take care of a donor — and flipped on it.
“In 2020, the Trump-linked billionaire with a stake in TikTok’s fate was Larry Ellison, co-founder of software company Oracle and the host of a lavish fundraiser for Trump’s reelection effort in February 2020.” ~ Politico
“Today that billionaire is Jeffrey Yass, a major donor to the conservative Club for Growth as the group cozies up to Trump ahead of his 2024 presidential campaign. Yass holds a 15 percent stake in TikTok’s Chinese parent company ByteDance, and Club for Growth has tapped former Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway to push back on Washington’s plan to restrict the app.” ~ Politico
Its fun and entertaining reading LLR-democratical Rich's and Howitzer Howard's furious substance-free and lie-filled spin on every single event that occurs and watching that spin fall flat...as it should.
Cyber security experts are very aware Tik Tok is Chinese cyber weapon.
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