ADDED: Whatever they say publicly I will test against the hypothesis that making it all about Manchin is political theater, designed to concentrate the blame where it will not hurt other Democrats, moderate Democrats, while they gain the opportunity to edit the excessively left-wing material out of the bill.
AND: Here's how WaPo is following the unfolding events this morning: "Liberal lawmakers don’t want to talk about scaling back their ambitions to revive some of what Joe Manchin killed." Oh, really?
The intense frustration emanating from the most liberal members of Congress adds an extra layer of complication for the White House and Democratic leaders who are scrambling to find a path forward to save some of the roughly $2 trillion domestic policy bill Manchin torpedoed over the weekend.
Torpoedoes and emanations! What will happen next?! All these layers.... layers of complication. It's a long story but it's rather boring and obvious.
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56 comments:
"I'm from West Virginia. I'm not where they're from and they can just beat the living crap out of people and think they’ll be submissive."
Yeah, but you are also from West Virginia, where they know they don't have to beat the living crap out of you to make you submit--just make sure the price is right. As illustrated by the facilities named after Klansman Robert Byrd.
Anyway, I'm enjoying Joe v. Joe for the moment, but without illusions.
Almost heaven
This Manchin thing is a *perfect* example of how the Left operates. One of the main narratives of the Left is that anyone who disagrees with them is being divisive. The only solution then is for the conservatives is to submit and agree with the Left. Why can't we all get along?
Bullying and misrepresentations are part of the Left's technique. Ilhan Omar and her crew are asserting that Machin is being mean to the voters of WV by not voting for the BBB. As if Manchin doesn't know what the people of West Virginia think.
In other words, conservatives are just full of hate and are simply bad people.
BBB would hand out $100 billion to the wind, solar and EV industries. This in on top of the $150 billion already received. (Per economist Steve Moore.) The handout is via federal income tax credits. Rich people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos buy partnership interest in wind and solar companies and then claim a dollar-for-dollar federal income tax credit (not a deduction) of 26% in year one. IOW, the poor and middle-class people of WV are subsidizing the rich people of NYC and Silicon Valley. That's not a good or moral thing. But, of course, these facts are never widely broadcast. The narrative of the Left and the Fake News is that we need wind, solar and EVs in order "to save the planet" in the year 2100.
The narrative in this country MUST change. The Left is destroying this country in any number of ways. One example is net carbon zero. If this goes through, we'll be paying electric rates like in Germany; three times the US average. Americans will be crucified on a cross of wind turbine blades. And the worst of it is that the wind turbines are subsidized and only make the rich richer than they already are.
Yeah, this is all pretty crazy. There was a time when he'd be considered a 'statesman' for his consistent stand to reign in the debt. If he had taken this stand in opposition to a Republican President, you can be sure he would be painted as a hero. But we're more or less in a protracted war from the Left which sees any opposition in thought or action as a direct act that requires a massive, destructive response. It's just not enough to disagree any longer. The disagree-er must be destroyed as an example for any others who might have such thoughts.
Well...for the geniuses on the Left screaming about how 1 man can stop the nation, kill the planet, leave children out on the street and how that man can vote against his own state population, there's this: West Virginia voted almost 70% for Donald Trump in the last election. So, no matter what a recent NBC poll says about how the people of West Virginia feel about BBB, the fact is no one actually knows much about BBB, but when they do, they hate it- nationally. And if W. Virginian's voted that heavily for Trump, you can bet your progressive ass that they want nothing to do with this hodge-podge Leftist wish list of a Bill. This is not a Bill. It's a straight jacket on the freedoms of the next 3 generations of Americans.
And I'll believe the Left truly gives a flying f*** about "The Climate", when they'd quit taking private jets to Martha's Vineyard, or Napa, while their 3 or 4 homes are lit up with every conceivable appliance and designer light fixture, and they're escorted around various cities with a cadre of 4+ Suburbans surrounding them as protection. (One wonders why they'd need protection if so many people agree with them.)
Marie Antoinette was more believable as a 'woman of the people' than these Democrats are.
Yep, West Virginia, #1 in opioid deaths, 6th highest poverty rate.
Would it be reasonable to conclude that Joe Manchin is a little irked?
Maybe even riled?
Possibly he might could be incandescent with fury at the way they tried to roll and smear him?
Bad idea, people. I'm guessing there is no way to rebuild that bridge back to Brandon Land.
edit the leftwing crap out of the bill? You'd have an empty page.
Edit the bills described and they vote on a page of "the" "a" "and" and "for."
I will test against the hypothesis that making it all about Manchin is political theater, designed to concentrate the blame where it will not hurt other Democrats, moderate Democrats, while they gain the opportunity to edit the excessively left-wing material out of the bill.
1) If anyone can be described as a "moderate Democrat", surely that is Manchin? Who would you describe as moderate that needs to be protected?
2) The entire bill is excessively Leftwing, that's the whole point. One of the major problems with the Left today is the fact that they aren't willing to compromise and work with Republicans.
As I said yesterday, “moderate” House Dems already voted for this bill. They voted for all items, including any meant to be political theater. Manchin’s opposition cannot protect them from the vote they already took.
Your added comment seems spot-on. Blaming Manchin is a win-win for these clowns. As Alinsky urged, it personalizes the target. Manchin will have to be careful not to sound too angry, because they will spin up everything he says as proof of his irrational pique, his willingness to sacrifice the grannies and fentanyl addicts of the hollows of West Virginia who need the help that only the BBB can provide.
Beyond personalizing the target, a blame-Manchin tactic shifts the focus from the BBB itself, and allows them to repackage it --probably with nearly the same toxic bloated contents-- as a shiny new thing that he really has no excuse for not endorsing.
This game ain't over.
That may not be a Republican, but it sure doesn't sound like a Democrat.
"... while they gain the opportunity to edit the excessively left-wing material out of the bill."
When they're done there won't be anything left to vote on.
Your hypothesis could well be right, Ann, but meanwhile Manchin's stock is rising, and not just in West Virginia.
Your hypothesis could well be right Ann, but meanwhile Manchin's stock is rising, and not just in West Virginia.
.
Ann's insight is spot-on IMHO. This BBB has all the hallmarks of We Have To Pass The Bill To Find Out What's In It.
There are four very vulnerable Dem senators up for reelection in 2022. How many of them want to face voters who will be asking, "Wait, you voted for 85,000 more IRS agents?". They want BBB dead also and Manchin is the safe public face of opposition.
>>I will test against the hypothesis that making it all about Manchin is political theater, designed to concentrate the blame where it will not hurt other Democrats, moderate Democrats
Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
How long can the Democrat Party hold together a coalition of Joe Manchineel and the radical no-compromise progressives. The Build Back Broke legislation is not acceptable to the majority of Democrat voters. Yet the aggrieved are the progressives. Of course, being aggrieved and offended is a core value of progressives.we may be seeing, once again in a long string of them, the hand of God tipping the scale to save America.
Joe Manchin is taking the bullet for Joe Biden here. Biden sent him off to negotiate a bipartisan infrastructure deal, which he did. When the Bernie Sanders wing of the party held that hostage for six months to get their big wish list, the two Joes performed a little theater of agreeing to a BBB “framework” to get the infrastructure bill passed. The Sanders wing can cry foul all they want, but what can they really do? Do they dare retaliate by getting Donald Trump elected President a second time?
I suppose the prevailing view is that this all makes President Biden look weak, but he got his infrastructure bill without having to pay the ransom demanded, and that’s a strong move.
We got sunlight on the sand,
We got moonlight on the sea—
We got torpoedoes and emanations
You can pick right off a tree—
He da Man! Principled and Courageous. A winning combination.
Wondering if voters who agree with Manchin's position, in other States with Democrat Senators, will ask why their own Senators did not speak against the inflationary graftiferous Bust our Budget Boondoggle bill.
while they gain the opportunity to edit the excessively left-wing material out of the bill.
Can you provide some examples of these "excessively left-wing material"? I know one of Manchin's objections was the child tax credit, which he thinks the parents will just use to buy drugs. Probably a valid concern in West Virginia.
And the WAPO wont make them talk about it.
Nor will they talk about unpopular the BBB was.
If you want honest coverage it is out there.
How about regular order for a change? Democrats could write the bills one at a time, allow public debate and amendments and then hold votes during the day when normal business is conducted historically. The biggest obstacle to convincing America that Trump was an historic aberration from our norms is that Congress has operated on convoluted Nancy rules since at least the “vote on the bill to see what’s in it” days of 2009. We’ve raised a whole generation who have never seen how a normal functioning republic was designed to work. No wonder selling socialism to their minions is so easy now. All these young voters have seen is duplicity corruption and suspension of rules by those in power.
Time for Mitt Romney to step up and become Maverick, Mark II.
One of a few things may be happening:
1. Democratic Party leaders could be "high on their own supply" -- as with the late days of the USSR some thought a "worker's uprising" was in the works. Shots were fired at the Soviet White House administrative building, but the USSR still collapsed. The very, very, very old party leaders could be losing their judgement at the same time.
2. Machin is a lone wolf undermining the "sincere beliefs and goals" of the rest of the party. This is nonsense, as many Democrats were open centrists and moderates before Trump. Feinstein and Pelosi are both millionaires who want to avoid a true revolution at all costs. They also want to buy/keep the votes of Blacks and Hispanics at all costs. One can't have (a) open borders and (b) union benefits at the same time. The party advocates an an incoherent and incompatible set of ideologiges.
3. Manchin and Sinema were put out as an opposition tag team by The Establishment (e.g., Schumer and Pelosi) to (a) support their reelection in moderate states, and (b) provide cover for *many* other moderate Democrats who now cower in fear, and (c) to stop really bad bills that they all want to die. If not for Sinema, Manchin would be a story. However, she reliably steps in to also say "NO" as needed so this appears to be fully coordinated to me.
Politics is theater, and sometimes other politicians are the target audience.
So glad that all the bullying the democrats tried in order to intimidate Joe Manchin backfired. The mob hired by the progs didn’t deter him from standing up for what he believes. These radical left-wing politicians (the squad) are despicable. This group of grifters want the tax payers to pay their student loans. What nerve! Who told you to go to college or law school if you knew you did not want to pay the loans you took for this education. My husband and I worked and saved and paid for our kid to go to college and then when she wanted an advanced degree, she paid for it herself. This group of girls has added nothing to our society. But, they are pros at working the system and are parasites sucking whatever they can from the government. If the congress girl has a law degree and can’t pay for it on her government salary, well then maybe she should go into private practice and make enough money to pay off the loan she so willingly took. We, Americans, owe you nothing. GFY
Here's the thing:
It's a 50 - 50 Senate. Any one Democrat Senator, who's willing to take the heat, can extract huge rewards for himself or herself by simply being willing to say "no".
By nuking BBB, Manchin is driving his price higher for all future "yes" votes.
The problem he, and the Democrats, face is that once he gets his higher price, it pushes Seinima and Tester to throw in their own "no" votes, so they can get a higher price, too
And once they get paid off, more end up deciding to stop being chumps, and demand their higher price for a "yes" vote, too.
Which is how the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
Which is why the Left is trying so hard to make it expensive to "be a Manchin"
Of course all politics contains varying degrees of political theater. But vilifying Manchin personally seems like a win for him in WV. (though why shy away from Sinema? Just because she's a Senator with a uterus?) All this theater is a desperate attempt to prevent the dam from breaking, to keep the handful of electorally vulnerable Dems in line, to hope to claim some scraps of victory down the road.
I just don't see it working. By the way, every Dem in a leadership position in the Senate and House is really old. Whatever happens over the next year will be what they're remembered for. Scary thought.
Dems/Progs are caught in a trap of their own making: they have promoted & promised various goodies to each and all of their "supporters," but cannot deliver such over-reaching programs and funding favoritism when they are limited by a near 50-50 split government, and a near 50-50 political split in the population. And with each attempt at fulfilling their wilder dreams of governance centralization and welfarization(?) of the public, they lose a few more of their moderates.
It would be kind of fun to watch their self-destruction (or mesmerizing like watching water circle the bathtub drain), were it not so damaging to the nation's economic health and the "commonweal."
Could be worse, could be SCOTUS finding emanations from penumbras…
ugh - Typical WaPo calls radical progressive leftists "liberal".
Frauds.
Little dictators that they are, they think because THEY want it, it must be forced upon everybody, even as it bankrupts our once great country. Manchin stepped off the Plantation, and the Progressive masters are all in a tizzy over it. Just wait. The best is yet to come.
Don't trust fake moderate Joe. Its all an act. He's just trying to get more $$ for himself. He'll cave and sign on once he gets the payoff. A while ago They had a leaked phone call with Fake moderate Joe and his billionaire handlers, and Manchin suggested they get Senator Blunt - Joe's "Good Friend" - onboard for some Democrat graft/corruption bill, by promising "Roy" a job at Goldman Sachs after he retires.
If Joe Manchin thinks others can be bought off, he can be bought off.
He no doubt belongs in Kennedy's ghost-written book Profiles in Courage.
The Dem establishment is angry at Manchin for not giving in on the BBB. But here's the thing: these people really know or care what is in that bill that Manchin's intransigence is preventing from going into effect. Instead, they want the bill passed solely in order to label and point to it as an "achievement." Doesn't matter if it's good or bad or what the effects down the road will be. To his credit, Manchin isn't trying to deny them an "achievement" per se. He's just exercising his basic, essential responsibility as a senator to evaluate the package ON THE MERITS. And the Dems hate him for it because "merits" is not how they roll. It is ALL about doing whatever they can, week to week, month to month, to stay in power.
'Probably a valid concern in West Virginia.'
Or in Harlem, or Chicago, or Atlanta...
What's your fucking point?
I'm guessing I'm one of the few commenters here to actually visit W. VA.
It's a beautiful state, and the people couldn't have been nicer.
Manchin did his service for the nation. 2022 is an election year. No Republican running will vote for any of this Green-Red fantasy this year. No Democrat running in a Red state is going to vote for it either and probably none in purplish district. Biden has managed to resurrect the 70's show again, hi inflation and stagnation. Voting taxpayers might vote for an infrastructure bill that is 100% civil engineering but they aren't going to be voting for social engineering and climate and energy fantasy. The country can't afford the current deficits let alone trillions more on top of the current operating deficits. Trump in a way is fortunate to have the election stolen from him. The upcoming disaster will be on Biden's and the Democrats watch. That gives Trump a massive I told you so if he decides to run in 2024. Personally I just cashed out all of my bonds in anticipation of much higher interest rates that are soon to come.
"Yep, West Virginia, #1 in opioid deaths, 6th highest poverty rate."
Huh. The Democratic Party has apparently completed its long march from being the champions of the unionized working class to being the rich snobs sneering at the poor, straight out of a 1930s Red Front propaganda piece. What a strange development. Well, maybe not so strange. From the prophetic works of William Blake to Citizen Kane, it's a classic trope.
I had to guffaw when I heard AOC complain that "just one Senator" stands in the way of this massive BBB legislation.
Actually, Sweet Cheeks, it's fifty-one Senators.
Then there's Bernie, who said Machin should be "forced" to vote for the bill.
I guess that's what's needed to "save our democracy".
SNORT
Not trusting politicians is now the default setting. I don't suppose that not trusting a member of a distrusted group somehow makes him trustworthy (double negative principle), but does it make him more or less worthy of trust than his peers?
Manchin ought to run for President. It doesn't matter that he's too old and can't win, but Democrats deserve the headache and need more headaches if they are ever going to move closer to the center.
The "most liberal members of Congress"? The only respect in which these people are liberal is with other people's money. And as Margaret Thatcher observed, the problem with Socialism is that sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.
The bill was crafted to give handouts to every hand out and to pass as a budget reconciliation. Manchin said: take out 3 trillion dollars, you leadership types decide whose handout goes out. They couldn't agree on who didn't get goodies because every time they selected someone to be deselected from the public trough, that someone said "Then I'm going to pick up my vote and go home." Like Penelope, the Dems wove the web by day and picked it out in phone calls overnight. Finally, Manchin said: "You can't deliver, it's over." But now when they want to do their BBB rerun (i.e., Bring Back Bits) they can't use reconciliation but once. I think that's how it is - it's budget reconciliation and you can't keep passing the budget. amirite? So the same process will occur - still no one will agree to be left out of the reconciliation. Thus, by promoting the selfish and stupid say-anything-for cash types, the Dems have self-ruined where they only proposed to ruin the country. And they can't stop or change. They'll be kicking goals for the Republicans till November 2022.
Don't choke on your popcorn.
Our great nation is being ruled by the president of the lollipop guild.
Agree with rcocean. And just keep in mind (as should Manchin) that you can't trust someone who negotiates in bad faith. So everyone on the right lionizing and loving Joe Manchin right now for foiling the Democrats' plans will and should dump him as soon as he tries to reach out. This guy has been for everything and against everything at various times through this process. A hero he is not, trustworthy he is not.
The Hopeless Left Bank of the Charles: "Joe Manchin is taking the bullet for Joe Biden here.....Do they dare retaliate by getting Donald Trump elected President a second time?
I suppose the prevailing view is that this all makes President Biden look weak, but he got his infrastructure bill without having to pay the ransom demanded, and that’s a strong move."
LOL
Yes ladies and gentlemen. You read that correctly.
Left Bank is literally attempting to paint Biden's Earpiece as a master tactician who is playing Eleventy-Dimensional Political chess.
Too funny.
It really becomes embarrassing after awhile, doesn't it?
cubanbob: "Manchin did his service for the nation. 2022 is an election year. No Republican running will vote for any of this Green-Red fantasy this year."
Your faith in Romney, Collins, Murkowski et al is....remarkable.
Then there's Bernie, who said Machin should be "forced" to vote for the bill. That's forced to vote ON the bill not FOR the bill, idiot.
Perhaps the most interesting thing in the response to Joe No is the contempt progs express not just for him but for the people in his state. Useful to remind the deplorables out there that while Dems claim to support the poor and downtrodden, they actually despise them. Bunch of losing losers. Do they even have laptops?
Then there's Bernie, who said Machin should be "forced" to vote for the bill.
Forced to vote ON the bill not FOR the bill, but who on this blog cares?
I'm guessing I'm one of the few commenters here to actually visit W. VA.
@Joe Smith, I live in a county at the western edge of the Commonwealth of Virginia, so I’ve been in West (By God!) Virginia many, many times. I concur with the scenery and the people.
"Blogger Freder Frederson said...
Yep, West Virginia, #1 in opioid deaths, 6th highest poverty rate."
As a Republican, this made me smile. Nothing convinces a group of voters that you are right more than calling them drug addicted losers. It's that kind of winning strategy that got Hillary Clinton elected President.
Btw Fred, how much is the RNC paying you to pretend to work for the other side?
Gahrie said...
> I will test against the hypothesis that making it all about Manchin is political theater, designed to concentrate the blame where it will not hurt other Democrats, moderate Democrats, while they gain the opportunity to edit the excessively left-wing material out of the bill.
1) If anyone can be described as a "moderate Democrat", surely that is Manchin? Who would you describe as moderate that needs to be protected?
Well, Mark Kelly has to run for re-election in AZ in 2022. Pretty sure he's not going to try to run as a hard core leftie. Manchin taking the heat means Kelly doesn't have to piss off the left and get Primaried, and might be able to lie to enough norm voters to get re-elected to a six year term
The biggest dollar item in this bill is the increase in the State and Local Tax Deduction which they needed to buy the votes of the "moderates" from NY and NJ. I'm pretty sure they could find 10 Republican Senators to vote for a rational expansion of the Child Tax Credit paid for with an increase in the top tax rate in about 5 minutes and probably could negotiate a green bills and immigration reforms that could get some Republican votes in a few days. They insisted on having it all and all at once right now paid for with smoke and mirrors.
A friend years ago claimed to be from "West b'God Virginia." You want to be kinda careful with these people - they've gone their own way before.
Heywood Rice said...
Then there's Bernie, who said Machin should be "forced" to vote for the bill. That's forced to vote ON the bill not FOR the bill, idiot.
Apparently you and Bernie believe that Manchin's willing to say "I'm not going to vote for this monstrosity that my constituents all hate", but he's not willing to actually vote against it?
Or is it that you hate every Democrat Senator who claims to be a "moderate", so you want to force them all to vote yes, and thus be guaranteed to lose their next election?
You go, baby!
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