August 24, 2018

"If there’s one thing I know for sure, it’s that carbs are evil. This is probably the silliest of all the silly, pop-culture propaganda about diet and health."

"All plant foods are carbohydrate sources. Yeah, but: Carbs are evil. Everything from lentils to lollipops, pinto beans to jelly beans, tree nuts to doughnuts, is a carbohydrate source. Most plant foods are mostly carbohydrate. So if 'all carbs' are evil, then so are vegetables, fruits, whole grains, beans, lentils, nuts, and seeds. Sure, but, I should still avoid carbs, right? Exactly the opposite is true. You cannot have a complete or healthful diet without carbohydrate sources. Why have I been led to believe that carbs are evil? Highly processed grains and added sugar are bad, not because they are carbohydrate, but because they’ve been robbed of nutrients, they raise insulin levels, and they’re often high in added fats, sodium, and weird ingredients. Carbs are not evil; junk food is evil."

From "The Last Conversation You’ll Ever Need to Have About Eating Right/Mark Bittman and doctor David L. Katz patiently answer pretty much every question we could think of about healthy food" (New York Magazine). Lots more at the link.

235 comments:

1 – 200 of 235   Newer›   Newest»
Michael K said...

Crazy talk but carbs have been overemphasized for years which probably gave us the Type II Diabetes epidemic the past 50 years.

Darrell said...

New York Magazine is evil.

Bay Area Guy said...

There's too many fat outta-shape kids these days. Makes me embarrassed to be an American.

I don't like leftwing Hippies, but I must (reluctantly) give them some credit on their dietary values. It's fine to eat a few, home-grown vegetables. And it's ok to say no to big-ass colorful sheet cakes, dripping with blue frosting, and Ho-hos for breakfast.

Achilles said...

The best multivitamin in the world is an egg. Everything you need for a baby chick right there.

We never ate fruits and vegetables as a race growing up. We made the giant ground sloth extinct. Fruits are only available in nature for a month or so every year. It is only with refrigeration they are available year round.

Dude1394 said...

Carbs make me fat. Carbs have been making all of us fat. Go look at the scales dude.

HT said...

"Carbs are not evil; junk food is evil."

Exactly correct. Doctors cannot be expected to work sanely on a conveyor belt full of sugar-addicted patients. The larger picture has to be seen, or else it's all for naught.

M Jordan said...

I got a Type 2 diabetes diagnosis over a year ago. I educated myself, started eating a moderately low-carb diet, lost 60 pounds, lowered my A1C from 12.4 (yep) to 5.4. During that time of low-carbing it I became very conscious of carbs. I craved them. I read a lot and discovered guys who walked their carb blood spikes away .... so that’s why I did. Because I knew I could never keep up a low-carb diet.

It worked for me. My body does talk to me and what it says is, “ Get me some carbs.” I can actually tell when I need them. And it’s exercise that sends that signal.

So to conclude, carbs are good. Exercise is good. Losing 60 pounds is good.

Amen.

daskol said...

Calories in, calories out. This seems like a retrograde notion of nutrition.

HT said...

"Carbs make me fat. Carbs have been making all of us fat. Go look at the scales dude."

Well of course.

Achilles said...

How is an apple metabolically different from a candy bar?

Trick question.

It isn’t.

We might have eaten them once a year to get fat for winter. They were not available for more than a month a year. It is ridiculous to posit that fruits were a regular part of our diet.

Anthony said...

"grounded in real scientific consensus"

Oh, you mean like the real scientific consensus that said red meat was bad bad bad for forty years? That real scientific consensus?

There is no "healthy" and "unhealthy" food. There's just food.

HT said...

"And it’s exercise that sends that signal."

What do you do?

rcocean said...

For some reason Mark Bittman has been appointed "THE FOOD EXPERT".

He wrote a book called "Vegan before 6 PM"

So, it's not surprising he loves Carbs.

Bob Boyd said...

Carbs to me are like meth to Jesse Pinkman.
If I had a slice of toast, the next thing I'd know, I'd wake up to find myself being led out of a Baskin-Robbins in handcuffs in the middle of the night covered with chocolate ice cream and broken glass.

rcocean said...

The real problem is we're not made to sit around all day - but that's what most of us do.

If we could force ourselves to burn 500-1000 calories every day, by walking around and doing light exercise, we'd all lose weight and be OK.

Etienne said...

The only thing that will destroy your body from within, is high fructose corn syrup (HFCS).

Being overweight is better than destroying your liver and kidneys.

There are more cases of gout in America, than any other place in the world. Gout comes from high levels of uric acid. The kidneys can't dump it fast enough, and the kidneys destroy themselves trying.

If you have high levels of uric acid, you better be taking Allopurinol (300 mg to start, 100 mg after a couple of years).

daskol said...

Dr. Katz sums up conventional wisdom using the meta-analysis, epidemiological approach to nutrition. There seems to be nothing new here at all, just a wildly presumptuous title.

rcocean said...

Of course, I agree that we're not made to eat 1,000 Colorizes of Dorritos or scarf down croissants for breakfast.

Eleanor said...

It's not what foods you eat that makes you fat. It's how much of it you eat. Eat a little bit of everything and not a whole lot of anything, and you won't be fat. And you won't keep getting bamboozled by the latest "study". "Fats are bad. Eat more carbs." "Carbs are bad. Eat more fats and proteins." "Buy all of you food pre-processed by our diet plan." "Go paleo. No processed food. Eat like the cavemen did." Trade your dinner plate for a smaller size and vary the food you put on it.

Achilles said...

For thousands of years our species got all of our vitamins and minerals from large tasty animals.

Those large tasty animals spent a lot of time wandering around packing their tasty flesh and organs with vitamins and nutrients and protein.

Their efforts should not be wasted.

Nothing about vegetarianism makes any sense.

tim in vermont said...

George McGovern, wheat state Senator, was chairman of the committee that oversaw the food pyramid, so I think that big pharma owes that guy a monument. But the government was there thinking for you!

Mountain Maven said...

The never read anything with "New York" in the title.

tim in vermont said...

Trading the dinner plate is a good idea, btw. Costs little or nothing.

Etienne said...

When I see people putting catsup on a burger, I would like to hand them a pistol with one bullet in it, and then spin the barrel:

"Here, aim this at your head, and good luck!"

rcocean said...

I can remember when eating margarine was supposed to be healthy.

And it looks like that "Have a glass of wine everyday, its good for you" is completely wrong.

I wonder if anyone is looking into the health effects of long term marijuana use.

tcrosse said...

"...we think good bread is one of life’s great pleasures. Eat it for that reason."

Amen.

Darrell said...

Eat what you want and die like a man.

clint said...

Talk about a Strawman.

The Atkins Diet was all about eating vast quantities of vegetables.

It's right there at the heart of the whole idea of low carb dieting that you get a ton of leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables, along with your meat, eggs, and fats.

Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution is full of paeans to the glory of vegetables, seeds and nuts, berries, and whole fruits.

Etienne said...

Every month, my wife and I go to Dallas for a date night, and we stay in an expensive hotel with large bath towels.

The main purpose is not vocalized orgasms, but the nearby restaurants that have seven course meals.

Seven little meals of seven different flavors, that fill you so full you need a wheelchair back to the taxi.

M Jordan said...

HT said... "And it’s exercise that sends that signal. What do you do?”

Mostly just walk. I do one longer stint each day, at least a mile-and-a-half. Sometimes I take two walks. It’s all about getting my step count up, which I measure faithfully. I biked a lot last summer but haven’t as much this summer because I bought an old house that I’m restoring (investment property in more ways than one). So I’m getting a lot of exercise besides just the legs.

But counting steps is key for me. I shoot for the magical 10,000 a day. Over the past year I’m averaging 8700. And that, plus the lifting, bending, pounding, etc. of construction work is what stimulates my appetite for carbs in an honest way. Oh, I should add I have a valuable walking companion, my wife.

Bay Area Guy said...

Eleanor sez:

"It's not what foods you eat that makes you fat. It's how much of it you eat."

I largely agree with this- with the caveat to add a few fresh vegetables into the mix, and minimize the sugar.

Grown men do not need to eat fucking dessert!

stevew said...

And that was when Althouse invited all the dietary experts to comment on her blog.

-sw

Achilles said...

So most vitamins and nutrients are concentrated in the organs.

Where do those end up now?

If you miss your daily eggs make sure you eat a hotdog or two.

Bazinga. All good.

Yancey Ward said...

Eat what you like, you are going to die anyway. If you are worried about your weight or diabetes, start being more physically active, but again, you are going to die anyway.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Achilles,

Re Eggs, I largely agree about their benefits. You got any thoughts on the best way to eat 'em? Fried? Scrambled? Raw in a glass a la Rocky Balboa?

wild chicken said...

"We never ate fruits and vegetables as a race growing up."

Wrong. Before farmers and herders, we we're hunters and GATHERERS. The men hunted and the women gathered berries, roots, nuts, whatever.

Women's work marginalized yet again!

Michael K said...

Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution is full of paeans to the glory of vegetables, seeds and nuts, berries, and whole fruits.

Vegetables are not wheat.

Atkins' point, for which he was vilified for 50 years, was that protein and fat suppressed appetite.

Carbs stimulate insulin which makes you hungry.

Much of the war on cholesterol was based on autopsies of Korean War KIAs whose coronaries had significant disease even though they were 19 and 20.

Then researchers fed rabbits, which never eat anything but leafy vegetables, meat and then rabbits got coronary disease.

Voila ! Fat causes heart disease.

Fifty years later, we figured out that smoking caused the heart disease.

Carbs, especially the "Mediterranean Diet" causes diabetes and obesity.



Blogger tim in vermont said...
George McGovern, wheat state Senator, was chairman of the committee that oversaw the food pyramid, so I think that big pharma owes that guy a monument. But the government was there thinking for you!


That is an interesting point.

Francisco D said...

Sugar carbs are likely the problem with weight gain for me.

I stopped eating sweets 15 years ago and lost 45 pounds (in a year) that I had gained in my forties. I have maintained my weight since then. It started out as the Atkins diet and has morphed into a lifestyle change.

It's not that sugar carbs are evil. They are addictive. I fail to eat them in moderation. Hence, I had to cut as much out of my diet as practical. I read food labels for the amount of sugar and fiber carbs (with cereals, breads, etc). If they are balanced, I am more likely to but the product.

Beer and red wine are probably not good for me, but a life without some pleasurable vices seems pretty boring.

lgv said...

Carbs ARE evil. I love them and can easily eat far more of them than I really need, and that's not including carbs in junk food.

This is why we are fat, well I'm not fat, but I could be. Having done the South Beach diet, the concept isn't to eliminate carbs. You may start that way by eliminating all carbs and sugars for week or so, but you slowly add back carbs and sugars.

So, using common sense, or Occam's Razor, it is only the excess amount of carbs in a diet than can cause problems. There are no profound discoveries, other than the silly low fat idea that has plagued us for years.

Now, let's talk about gluten.....

Henry said...

and they’re often high in added fats, sodium, and weird ingredients

Weird ingredients? The good doctor discredits himself.

Etienne said...

Bay Area Guy said...Grown men do not need to eat fucking dessert!

au contraire

Dessert exercises the brain.

Birkel said...

Fruits and vegetables were not available year-round until recently.
Meat, nuts, roots, insects were available for most of the year.

Act accordingly.

Achilles said...

wild chicken said...
"We never ate fruits and vegetables as a race growing up."

Wrong. Before farmers and herders, we we're hunters and GATHERERS. The men hunted and the women gathered berries, roots, nuts, whatever.

Women's work marginalized yet again!


Not wrong.

Please explain a couple things:

1. How did we have year round access to things that were available for less than a month out of the year?

2. If women were out gathering nuts and fruits for the couple weeks they were ripe who was tanning the hides and cleaning the carcasses?

Etienne said...

Dying is not the problem.

Living in a nursing home in pain for a couple of years with no access to a method of suicide is the problem.

Those nurses won't let you kill yourself, even though they've already removed all of your limbs, hooked your bowels and bladder to bottles, and inject food through a slit in your abdomen.

tcrosse said...

A lot of our puritan moral judgments have migrated from sexual matters to diet. No stigma attaches to sodomy, but you dare not eat inauthentic ethnic food.

The Crack Emcee said...

I don't need anyone to tell me how to eat. Eat a meal with a salad and you'll live.

White people even made the dinner plate a fucking disaster.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Very interesting and enjoyable. But what vegetables do the eskimos eat?

Etienne said...

The Crack Emcee said...White people...

We prefer to be called Non-African Americans now.

Pianoman said...

A friend of mine who has Type 2 diabetes was told at the time of his diagnosis to avoid "white carbs" ... also referred to as "empty carbs". So this would include potatoes, white bread, white rice, sugar, and white pasta.

He wasn't told to "avoid all carbs". Just the stuff that has no fiber.

Apparently wine is a big no-no too -- just nothing but a big class of carb.

My doctor told me to *lower* my carbs if I wanted to lose a little weight (trying to lost 30 pounds total). He just suggested making better food choices, like replacing carbs with veggies.

The general key is moderation, but unfortunately there's no money to be made there. If you want to sell diets, you have to scare the hell out of people, or market the hell out of your "new idea". The success of the "gluten free diet" is all the proof you need that marketing matters.

Etienne said...

Dried fruits have double the fructose. Eat accordingly.

AllenS said...

Hold my beer, and listen to this --

I'm 5'9" and weigh 185 lbs. I'll be 72 in November, and I'm in good physical shape. I stay away from sweets, and then, mostly eat whatever I want to. Every morning, I lift weights and do sit-ups, then stay busy working (on my feet) most of the day.

Give me back my beer.

Birkel said...

The growing seasons in temperate climates were relatively short.
Food availability in tropical areas was quite different.

Etienne said...

In the military, we had liver and onions twice a week at the chow hall.

That's been my crack cocaine ever since.

Course my mother used to soak the liver in whole milk for a couple hours in the fridge, as it made it taste like calf's liver. Mmmmph...

Three minutes a side, no more, or you might as well serve tree bark.

Fernandinande said...

Carbs? Fuel injection is the way to go.

They guy who accidentally started the gluten scare invented a new word for his accident: "nocebo", for imaginary bad effects.

Original Mike said...

”1. How did we have year round access to things that were available for less than a month out of the year?”

We evolved in Africa, not Minnesota.

john said...

I put ketchup on my burger.

Never catsup.

truth speaker said...

Technically, carbs aren't evil' but eating an over-abundance of them and getting little-to-no exercise is the direction for developing insulin sensitivity and eventually diabetes.


The American diet relies too heavily on carbs and carbs are EVERY WHERE in the diet, from bread to pretzels to candy. Cutting down on carbs will help you lose weight and keep you blood sugar levels from spiking.


And Mark Bittner is a sorta chef and not a nutritionist.

Curious George said...

"The Crack Emcee said...
White people even made the dinner plate a fucking disaster."

Yeah, well you don't see late night commercials asking people to sponsor feeding us for $5/month.

Art in LA said...

Just had my annual check-up and my doctor suggested I read that. Folks are all about absolutes nowadays, but so many things are much more nuanced. I think we are all our own science projects and will react differently to different foods. Figure out what works best for you!

Freeman Hunt said...

It is interesting to hear people talk about what they think foods do to blood glucose levels when you know someone with a continuous glucose monitor. It's not only processed grains that shoot your blood sugar up; whole grains shoot your blood sugar up too. Chocolate is the best dessert with a smooth, slow rise. Peanut butter does odd things to blood sugar. Some foods, like pizza, have more than one rise as you digest them.

James K said...

As was mentioned, Bittman is knocking down a straw man and should be ignored always. No one ever said "All carbs are evil." Just sugars and starches.

Etienne said...

All you need to know about diabetes can be found by parking in front of a feed lot and breathing deeply.

Watch the cattle eat grain, and trudge through their shit.

Picture insulin shooting through their muscles and every connecting tissue to create a beautifully marbled fat.

That is what your body is like eating grain.

But I have to admit, if I was going to kill myself, that croissants made with real butter and grain, would be a more pleasant death than the heat from the shotgun blast.

The Crack Emcee said...

Curious George said...

"You don't see late night commercials asking people to sponsor feeding us for $5/month."

BUT WHITES MADE THAT PROBLEM, TOO!!!

How dumb do you have to be to brag about a disaster you made?

Freeman Hunt said...

And exercise is incredible for lowering blood sugar.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Hunter gatherers ate whatever they could get their hands on that was edible which included whatever was growing at the time.

My name goes here. said...

Please explain a couple things:

1. How did we have year round access to things that were available for less than a month out of the year?

2. If women were out gathering nuts and fruits for the couple weeks they were ripe who was tanning the hides and cleaning the carcasses?


1. Grains kept in jars for a very long time. But the other answer is: fermentation.

2. Nuts keep for a very long time as well. But the other answer is that before we bred out crops to make all of their fruit at once and for all of it to ripen at the same time, crops made their fruit over a longer period. The gatherers would go to the bush today and pick the berries that ready on that day, and they would go back tomorrow and do the same.

Caligula said...

"A genuine paleo diet is almost certainly good for human health, since it’s a diet to which we are adapted."

Meaning, a good diet for a time when few lived into old age anyway, and where food scarcity tended to favor dietary quantity or quality anyway?

Evolution seems to have adapted us to crave salt, sugar and high-fat, calorie-dense foods. What we seem to be adapted for is to seek foods that were scarce in the ancestral environment, but (because engineered foods are designed for maximum appeal) obviously all-too-available in our environment.

Which is to say, our evolved adaptations to the paleo environment don't seem to be a very good guide to selecting healthy foods.



Inga...Allie Oop said...

“How is an apple metabolically different from a candy bar?”

Fiber and the rate in which the sugars get broken down in your gut.

Francisco D said...

"White people even made the dinner plate a fucking disaster."

Please help Crack. He is begging for someone to make a joke about chitlins.

He is desperately looking for love (er, ... racism) in all the wrong places.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Curious George said...

"You don't see late night commercials asking people to sponsor feeding us for $5/month."
—————
Crack said...
“BUT WHITES MADE THAT PROBLEM, TOO!!!

How dumb do you have to be to brag about a disaster you made?”
—————-
In his case pretty damn dumb.

Freeman Hunt said...

"How is an apple metabolically different from a candy bar?”

If it's a chocolate candy bar, the apple is probably going to give you a sharper blood sugar spike.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

People also seem to disregard the genetic aspect of getting diabetes.

Anonymous said...

Grandma: "all things in moderation"

My Dr: Key to longevity? Make good choices, specifically your parents.

Birkel said...

It’s not just blood sugar that matters.
It’s also cravings that develop.
A diet of eggs, meat, and leafy vegetables has very little craving.

Freeman Hunt said...

Fat slows everything down.

PoNyman said...

I eat between 10 am and 6pm. Cut sugar, no snacking, and if I feel hungry then I better eat more at meal times. I have some chocolate to end my day. Moderate exercise. I lost 50 lbs with this in six months and I have hit a stable weight for the last four months. I'm a few pounds off of my freshman in college weight when I was running 70 miles/wk.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

As your question notes, not all foods release glucose in the same amounts or at the same rate.
Foods like sugary breakfast cereals, pastries and candy are basically glucose bombs. But naturally sweet foods like apples, strawberries or yams, which contain carbohydrates but are also high in fiber, release glucose more slowly. However if you turn that apple into juice, you’ve just accelerated the rate at which your blood glucose level will rise. And if the candy bar you’re eating contains a handful of nuts, the fiber they contain will slow the rate of glucose absorption.

A little confusing, we know. Fortunately, a handy tool known as the glycemic index has taken much of the guesswork out of maintaining a healthy blood glucose level. The glycemic index, or GI, ranks each food relative to how it will affect your blood glucose level.

Foods high on the GI release their sugars more rapidly, which can cause blood sugar levels to spike. Foods lower on the scale release their energy more gradually, and blood glucose levels remain steady.

https://connect.uclahealth.org/2018/08/02/ask-the-doctors-which-spikes-blood-glucose-more-sugar-in-fruit-or-food/

Jim at said...

Everybody - and every body - is different. What works for one won't necessarily work for someone else.

Tried the Atkins diet a couple years ago. Awful.
Due to a high burn rate, my body needs carbs. Lots of them.

Stop telling me what to eat.

daskol said...

The Crack Emcee said...
I don't need anyone to tell me how to eat. Eat a meal with a salad and you'll live.

White people even made the dinner plate a fucking disaster.


OK, that was hilarious.

Jim at said...

My body does talk to me and what it says is, “ Get me some carbs.” I can actually tell when I need them. And it’s exercise that sends that signal.

Exactly.

hombre said...

"Carbs are evil"? Who says that?

So, an article in a New York publication based on a straw man. Dog bites man.

Freeman Hunt said...

Fiber barely slows anything. Fat, on the other hand...

Birkel said...

Fiber makes things move more quickly.
It really is useful.

Original Mike said...

Your data is fascinating, Freeman.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Fiber slows absorption in the gut. Why do you think that rice, pasta, potatoes are lower on the Gylcemic Index after they’ve been cooked and cooled overnight in the fridge? Because the cooling process rearranges the molecules and makes the starchy foods I mentioned higher in soluble fiber.

“Resistant starch is a carb that is also considered a type of fiber (1).

Resistant starch is resistant to digestion, so it passes through the intestines without being broken down by your body

Resistant starch provides several important health benefits.

Since it is not digested by the cells of your small intestine, it is available for the bacteria in the large intestine to use.

Resistant starch is a prebiotic, meaning it is a substance that provides “food” for the good bacteria in your intestines (2).

Resistant starch encourages bacteria to make short-chain fatty acids like butyrate. Butyrate is the top energy source for the cells in your large intestine (3, 4).

By aiding in the production of butyrate, resistant starch provides the cells of your large intestine with their preferred source of energy.

Additionally, resistant starch may decrease inflammation and effectively change the metabolism of the bacteria in your intestines (5, 6).

This leads scientists to believe that resistant starch may play a role in preventing colon cancer and inflammatory bowel disease (5, 6).

It can also reduce the rise in blood sugar after a meal and improve insulin sensitivity, or how well the hormone insulin brings blood sugar into your cells (7, 8).

Problems with insulin sensitivity are a major factor in type 2 diabetes. Improving your body’s response to insulin through good nutrition can help fight this disease (9, 10).

Along with potential blood sugar benefits, resistant starch may be able to help you feel fuller and eat less, too.“

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/cooling-resistant-starch

tim in vermont said...

Take a group of humans, any mixture of races and types. Take away their medical care and leave them alone for 5 thousand years, and whatever there was to eat will be the surviving people's ideal diet.

Achilles said...

Bay Area Guy said...
@Achilles,

Re Eggs, I largely agree about their benefits. You got any thoughts on the best way to eat 'em? Fried? Scrambled? Raw in a glass a la Rocky Balboa?


I got in trouble for this last time.

Raw is good for some nutrients. Cooked for others.

So I try to do both.

I eat them raw blended up in shakes with ice cream and peanut butter and spinach and cauliflower .

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Soluble fiber tends to increase the viscosity or thickness of the intestinal contents after a meal, which slows carbohydrate digestion and glucose absorption. Oats and barley contain a soluble form of fiber called beta-glucan, and this type of fiber can lower the rise in your blood glucose level following a meal.”

Sydney said...

The carbs in vegetables and fruits are complex carbs. They don't make your blood sugar spike the way the simple carbs in grains do. It's the blood sugar spike that causes the problem with metabolic consequences of a diet rich in simple carbs. The more often it spikes during the day and the higher the spike, the worse it is for you. Your body releases more insulin with each spike which in turn stimulates insulin receptors on your cells. If the cells are stimulated too much, the cells get exhausted and down-regulate. So, you don't store your glucose as effeciently, or turn it into energy as effeciently and it ends up floating around in your blood. We call that diabetes. The excess glucose makes your blood kind of "sticky" which results in more inflammation of the arteries and the organs bathed in your blood. So you get things like heart disease and peripheral vascular disease. Maybe I misunderstood the excerpt, but eating complex carbs is not at all like eating simple carbs. Those experts should know better. Tsk.

Sebastian said...

Very slightly OT -- just about the framing, not the actual food discussion:

"Every wild species on the planet knows how to do it; presumably ours did, too, before our oversized brains found new ways to complicate things. Now, we’re the only species that can be baffled about the “right” way to eat. Really, we know how we should eat"

So, we adapted to our environment and should stick to what we "know" based on that adaptation, but we should not pay attention to our "oversized" brain which somehow did not serve adaptation and just complicated things without improving our fitness, except that, well, we are the most powerful species, and we have increased our life expectancy pretty dramatically, and we have figured out ways to avoid starvation and most of us now do have access to a "complicated" variety of foods unknown to any of our ancestors, and -- oh, well.

Being baffled is part of the human condition: the condition to seek knowledge and use our imagination.

Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FullMoon said...

Achilles said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Bay Area Guy said...
@Achilles,

Re Eggs, I largely agree about their benefits. You got any thoughts on the best way to eat 'em? Fried? Scrambled? Raw in a glass a la Rocky Balboa?

I got in trouble for this last time.

Raw is good for some nutrients. Cooked for others.....


Hold on a dang second. The experts said eggs are bad for you.....oh, wait, they changed their mind, nevermind.

Jupiter said...

What's his problem with bacon, anyway? Ask yourself, why do all Left Fascists hate bacon? They are simply enemies of human pleasure.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Dark chocolate is lowest in sugar and add some nuts, it’s a perfect treat. Make your own candy bars, melt some dark chocolate add some nuts or coconut and you have your own healthy almond joy.

Henry said...

I accidentally bump a lump of unsweetened chocolate. Didn't know what to do with it, since I'm not all that interested in baking cakes. Found that grating unsweetened chocolate into unsweetened greek yogurt is pretty delicious. The yogurt absorbs a lot of the bitterness, but you get the full chocolate fragrance.

Jupiter said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
"Dark chocolate is lowest in sugar and add some nuts, it’s a perfect treat. Make your own candy bars, melt some dark chocolate and some nuts or coconut and you have your own healthy almond joy."

Also, dark chocolate is poisonous to dogs. Give that barking monster next door a tasty treat!

n.n said...

Carbohydrates are not evil, but most people have a lifestyle that does not process them efficiently, which engenders diabetes, progressive body fat, and other physiological misalignments.

Jess said...

It's the dose; not the poison. Too much of anything your body can store as fat leads to fat.

Original Mike said...

”The carbs in vegetables and fruits are complex carbs. They don't make your blood sugar spike the way the simple carbs in grains do.”

That’s what I’ve always heard, but Freeman’s data seem to indicate otherwise. Unless I’m missing something.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Etienne,

The Crack Emcee said...White people...

We prefer to be called Non-African Americans now.


Heh-heh! Technically, didn't we all descend from people in Africa? I'd like to recapture my root and be called a "Post-African-American."

Don't be an Evolution-Denier!

Fernandinande said...

Speaking of dark chocolate -

Baby feces may be source of beneficial probiotics

"In the study, Yadav's team collected fecal samples from the diapers of 34 healthy infants."

"No job too dirty for the fucking scientists."

Original Mike said...

”Technically, didn't we all descend from people in Africa?”

So, we’re are all due reparations, right?

Bay Area Guy said...

@Achilles,

"I eat them raw blended up in shakes with ice cream and peanut butter and spinach and cauliflower."

I love ya, but this sybaritic concoction tends to negate my belief in a benevolent God.....

Freeman Hunt said...

Inga, I am not posting based on theory. I've been aware of the GI index for my entire adult life, and I know what is said about fiber and all the rest. I am posting based on managing someone's Type 1 every day and watching what foods do in real time. I am, if I may say so, very good at doing this. (Consistently sub 6 A1c without a low carb diet.)

Oatmeal spikes. Whole wheat toast spikes. Fiber One bars spike. Nutrigrain bars spike. Fruit spikes. Do they spike identically to white bread and Skittles? No, but the difference is a lot less than people might think. All of those foods require pre-bolusing. (Giving insulin for the food 5-20 minutes before eating it.)

A plain Hershey bar, on the other hand, doesn't require a pre-bolus. Neither does the aforementioned bread of either type if turned into grilled cheese sandwiches.

(This is not an endorsement of a Hershey bar diet, only a comment on how carbs affect blood glucose levels.)

AllenS said...

I want to say one word to all of you. Just one word. Cardboard.

traditionalguy said...

Does this mean that after 20 years of Science Fiction about what is a healthy diet, it turns out that the heretic monster Dr. Robert Adkins was right all along. Has anybody in the Dietician Establishment apologised for their hatchet jobs done to that good man for 40 years? Apparently not.

MickJag68 said...

Complex Carbs 40%
Monounsaturated Fats 30%
Protein 30%

James K said...

Has anybody in the Dietician Establishment apologised for their hatchet jobs done to that good man for 40 years? Apparently not.

They even maligned him after his death, especially the scum Dean Ornish, who later had to retract his claims.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Freeman, I suspected you were speaking about your own( or child’s) experience. I understand that there are some foods that will spike BG quicker in diabetics. But understand that a diabetic has a deranged ( I don’t mean that in a derogatory way) metabolism. People who are not diabetics have a different (healthy) way of metabolizing sugars.

Rigelsen said...

Calories in, calories out. This seems like a retrograde notion of nutrition.

Indeed, such a retrograde notion. As if our bodies were perfect furnaces instead of highly stylized and customized biochemical conversion machines.

Carbs, especially the "Mediterranean Diet" causes diabetes and obesity.

Only the corrupted “Mediterranean diet” that the Mayo Clinic has been pushing, as if butter was bad for you. The real Mediterranean diet is at least 30% fat and eschews refined carbs, and can easily be made ketogenic and low-carb if needed/desired. The only common component high in simple sugars is fruits but even that is fine in moderation if you’re not insulin resistant or have messed up gut microbiota. But a highly varied diet, like the Meditteranean diet, can help fix with the latter too.

As far as the pre-agricultural diet, that was not a time of plenty, whether meats or nuts/fruits. Preservation did not exist unless you were living through a frigid winter and then animal protein sources were rare anyway. Life was, to borrow from Hobbes, “nasty, brutish, and short”.

We evolved in Africa, not Minnesota.

Yes, a green Africa before prehistoric climate change caused by over-farting prehistoric humans caused the desertification of most of its northern parts. (For the humor impaired, that’s a joke.)

BUT WHITES MADE THAT PROBLEM, TOO!!!

Huh? I’m about the same shade as you, but this is peak stupid.

WK said...

Read one of the Gary Taubs books "Why We Get Fat" and followed the list of eat / don't eat items he listed. Mostly eat protein; no grains; lower carbs; no starches; added sugars; lot of veggies. Dropped 10 lbs pretty quickly. My wife got on board and wanted to do "Whole 30" which is a 30 day plan cutting out all added sugar/dairy/alcohol/etc. Pretty strict. We are now both down about 20 lbs and making adjustments to maintain. Through both of these "methods" - I never counted calories or measured portions. Seems like simple sugars/carbs are a big driver. Occasionally feel like I am craving "something" but it was pretty easy once we decided to move forward.

LA_Bob said...

After reading about this stuff for the last nine years (while low-carbing all the while), I've come to think carbs per se are not really the problem.

Most of us start life able to handle carbs. As long as we're talking fruit and green and starchy vegetables, we can probably spend our entire lives in decent metabolic health.

But, the modern diet is excessively rich in sugar and grains (especially wheat). These items were but small parts of our ancestral diets, and we're not well-adapted to them. Eventually, and sooner for some than later, the high-glycemic carbs damage our metabolisms. The damage is at the mitochondrial level, and it probably doesn't reverse. When enough damage accumulates, we fall into obesity, metabolic syndrome, or diabetes.

Also, depending on the amount of damage, we may not be able to switch back to lower-glycemic carbs to restore health. Too much may be broken.

At that point, the only healthy option is a diet high in fat (saturated and unsaturated, not polyunsurated, as in vegetable oils) and moderate in protein. We're talking meat, cheese, egg yolks, and so on. This sidesteps the problems with carb metabolism and allows us to go on in reasonable health.

Just my take on things. Subject to change as I learn more.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Freeman, I also want to endorse a low carb diet for diabetics of all types. I’m not pushing carbs on diabetics, absolutely not. My references were directed toward non diabetics, or those with some degree of insulin resistance.

Achilles said...

Original Mike said...
”1. How did we have year round access to things that were available for less than a month out of the year?”

We evolved in Africa, not Minnesota.

How many apples and oranges and bananas are there in Africa?

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

OT: Chuck Todd(D) calls for impeachment.

Because crimes, and more crimes.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

If you drink,

Avoid beer.
Drink distilled liquors.
Moderation still key.

Freeman Hunt said...

There is a world of difference between Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 - person doesn't make insulin. Type 2 - person may make tons of insulin but is insulin resistant. The data I am watching is from a Type 1 person, and I think it's very valuable for knowing what foods do what you blood glucose. Obviously in a non-Type 1 person, the spikes will be much smaller because there insulin is much faster. But I think Type 1 data is helpful for seeing exaggerated versions of how different foods affect blood glucose.

A person without Type 1 can buy a blood glucose monitor at the store and see how he reacts to these things.

Etienne said...

Looks like Arizona is going to need a new Senator for life next week.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“ Obviously in a non-Type 1 person, the spikes will be much smaller because there insulin is much faster. But I think Type 1 data is helpful for seeing exaggerated versions of how different foods affect blood glucose.”

I agree.

Freeman Hunt said...

I know another person who has Type 2 and has had the same experience with whole grains and fruit.

A agree that starchy carbs and sugar are worse, but I think it's a mistake for people to think that whole grains are great in this regard.

RigelDog said...

This doctor is being disingenuous; he's leaving out a lot of the story on carbs. Carbs need insulin to be metabolized, period. If you eat excess amounts of carbs over time, if this amount of carbs overwhelms the body's ability to process with moderate insulin release, you WILL develop insulin resistance. The further along you are in this disfunctional balance, the fewer carbs your body can process efficiently and you end up with a bunch of glucose that shouldn't be in your blood. Voila, Type 2 diabetes. It's true, and important to note, that we are as a population are over-eating that X-amount of carbs too easily due to processed carbs---but it's not true that you can't ingest the "OverX" amount of carbs from unprocessed foods. I ought to know, I have this problem, and was always prone to eating carb-y foods (starches, not sweets) even when young and in perfect health. I would have developed type 2 in any case if I'd eaten my preferential fill but only of non-processed starchy foods, such as dense whole-grain breads, potatoes, beets, brown rice, quinoa, etc.

Etienne said...

A person without Type 1 can buy a blood glucose monitor at the store...

Actually they give them out for free if you take a diabetes awareness class. The expensive part is the strips that the meter uses.

Achilles said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...
“How is an apple metabolically different from a candy bar?”

Fiber and the rate in which the sugars get broken down in your gut.

10 minutes to insulin reaction instead of 5 and stuff that makes your colon sad.

Totally different.

Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga...Allie Oop said...

“A person without Type 1 can buy a blood glucose monitor at the store and see how he reacts to these things.”

I have when visiting my sister who is a Type 2. I took my BGs when she did for a solid week, we ate the same food, same amounts and the difference in spike and the BG decline times were stark. One interesting discovery (for her), her BG’s spiked after drinking coffee with her nasty artificial creamer. I always encouraged her to use real half and half or full cream, but she resisted until she saw the daily spike. Creamer is full of corn syrup solids. Ugh.

Achilles said...

Freeman Hunt said...
I know another person who has Type 2 and has had the same experience with whole grains and fruit.

A agree that starchy carbs and sugar are worse, but I think it's a mistake for people to think that whole grains are great in this regard.

Exactly.

Hydrochloride acid is more mild than hydroflouric acid.

Still makes poor aftershave.

bagoh20 said...

Discussing food causes obesity.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I don’t buy into the whole grain thing for a number of reasons. One, they are not soluble fiber, they are insoluble fiber. It’s the soluble fiber that gives one the bigger advantage when delaying the absorbtion of sugars in the gut. Also for certain GI conditions insoluble fiber exacerbates the condition, while soluble fiber is mild in the gut and very beneficial.

Original Mike said...

”How many apples and oranges and bananas are there in Africa?”

You’re smarter than this, right?

RigelDog said...

Trade your dinner plate for a smaller size and vary the food you put on it.}}}

That's fine as far as it goes. What you wouldn't know if you hadn't experienced Metabolic Syndrome is that those smaller amounts of food won't satisfy hunger sufficiently if your insulin balance is thrown off, if they contain starches or sugars anyway. I'm doing well (cross fingers) after a few months of lower carb (plenty of veggies but not starches or sugars) eating now, and because I am limiting carbs my appetite has finally started to normalize. I'm not hungry between meals and I'm satisfied with less food. But put a "moderate" amount of starch on that ideal plate of yours---say, a small whole grain bread sandwich with lean turkey, lettuce, tomato, and slaw---and I will be ravening with hunger within a few hours and plagued with unwelcome intrusive thoughts of Carb-ey foods. And I won't lose weight. Give me the same amount of calories with turkey and cheese lettuce roll-ups, and I'll be "full" and I'll lose weight. Blood fats and glucose will plummet. Yet the standard advice would say that I'm eating "too much" fat.

Etienne said...

artificial creamer

Evil stuff.

Add a little real sugar and then use powdered milk. Real sugar being better for you than fructose.

I admit I haven't used creamer or sugar since my teens. I like the cheap Vietnamese coffee now that tastes like napalm extract.

RigelDog said...

Carbs to me are like meth to Jesse Pinkman.}}}

LOL so true! Except in my case I'd wake up in front of a broken Deli case with empty serving bowls of macaroni and potato salad all around me.

Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

Black coffee and unsweetened tea.
It takes a bit of time to adjust but it’s the right choice.

And soda (including chasers/mixers) is made from pure devil juice.

Alex said...

All I know is when I increase carbs I get fatter, when I decrease them I lose fat. But even more important is CICO. It just works, no matter what you're hearing from the 'fat acceptance' crowd.

CICO!

Alex said...

Indeed, such a retrograde notion. As if our bodies were perfect furnaces instead of highly stylized and customized biochemical conversion machines.

Probably said by a butterhuffer who weights 300lbs. Excuse me while I pay more attention to what fit people say.

LA_Bob said...

Inga said, "Real sugar being better for you than fructose."

Inga, "real sugar" is 50% fructose.

LA_Bob said...

Inga said, "Real sugar being better for you than fructose."

Inga, "real sugar" is 50% fructose.
-----------------------

Sorry, that should have been for Etienne.

Bay Area Guy said...

All I know is that when I graduated college, I weighed 187.

And, 30+ years post college, I weigh a mere 10 pounds over that.

So, I don't listen to any fucking expert on this issue. I just do what I've been doing - more vegetables, less sweets. Yes, steak and cheeseburgers are definitely part of the mix, just not every day, jeez.

But, I do need to start doing more sit-ups. The problem is that you go soft around the belly.

Achilles said...

Original Mike said...

”How many apples and oranges and bananas are there in Africa?”

You’re smarter than this, right?

We never ate fruit as a species until recently. Unless we found overripe stuff on the ground we we learned it made is drunk.

Fruit. is. not. good. for. us.

It can be eaten the same way candy bars and dessert can be eaten. As a treat. It causes the exact same insulin spike as raw sugar. Just takes a couple more minutes.

It is not a staple food group.

We got all out minerals and nutrients from the organs of large tasty animals.

Certain low sugar vegetables and tubers can be a small addition to our diet but they were never a staple for our species either.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Fruit. is. not. good. for. us.”

Pure nonsense. Fruit is full of heart healthy polyphenols.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Free radicals are a normal product of metabolism and result in a process called oxidation. Polyphenols and other antioxidants, including beta carotene (a vitamin A precursor), vitamin C, vitamin E, and selenium, scavenge these free radicals and help to prevent formation of unstable oxygen molecules, known as oxidation.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12109813

Bergamot a (type of citrus) has almost as good of a result in lowering LDL-P as does a Statin. If you think LDL- numbers don’t matter, think again. Even low carb gurus are now saying that LDL-P numbers do indeed matter, especially if those particles becom oxidized. Anthocyanins in cherries are great for inflammation and are a natural source of melatonin. And so many more, if you do some research.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Etienne said...
When I see people putting catsup on a burger, I would like to hand them a pistol with one bullet in it, and then spin the barrel:

"Here, aim this at your head, and good luck!"

8/24/18, 11:02 AM


Whew! Good thing I use ketchup instead of whatever that is.

Also good that I don't give a fig for your opinion, having already offered my last one to Adm McRaven for his.

But let's humor you. What's wrong with ketchup on a hamburger? What then should it have on it? Cheese, I suppose?

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I am on a new nutrition plan that calls for 5 meals a day. I feel like I am in constant hunter/gather mode, always looking for the next thing to eat. And there's this nagging feeling that all this eating won't end well.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Why do you think people who live in France and Italy are healthier than we are despite eating all that bread and pasta? Grapes.

Alex said...

Inga, it's a myth. French obesity rates have skyrocketed in the last 20 years.

Fernandinande said...

This is true because it happened in Latvia -

Hungry man steal gluten-free bread for feed family. Get home, find all family gone Siberia! "More gluten-free bread for me", man think. But bread have gluten.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I am on a new nutrition plan that calls for 5 meals a day. I feel like I am in constant hunter/gather mode, always looking for the next thing to eat. And there's this nagging feeling that all this eating won't end well.

You are spiking your insulin 5 times a day, no wonder you’re in constant hunger mode. Look up intermittent fasting.

Sydney said...

The other thing that plays into the metabolic response to simple carbs is your gut microbiome. The bacteria in our guts is highly individualized. Some people have shifted their gut microbes to ones that enhance simple carbohydrate absorption. This happens when you spend your youth eating lots of junk food or when you have been on a lot of antibiotics through your life. The microbiome can be changed by eating more complex carbs and prebiotic foods, as well as by taking probiotics. I used to think this was crazy, but more and more evidence is accumulating in its favor. I experienced it first hand. I had stalled out after losing 50 pounds by calorie counting alone and minimizing simple carbs. I did an elimination diet, took probiotics and lost another 30 pounds which I have managed to keep off even though I have reintroduced all of the food groups I kept away from during the elimination period and stopped the probiotics. I still limit grains to 2-3 servings a week, though. I just eat a diet that is weighted more toward proteins and complex carbs. I intend to repeat the elimination diet twice a year - during Advent and Lent, just to reset things periodically.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Inga, it's a myth. French obesity rates have skyrocketed in the last 20 years.”

Fast food.

chuck said...

> high in added fats, sodium

And this is bad, why? The one thing he knows for sure is that processed foods are evil. The only thing I am sure of is that Nutrition science is driven by politics, religious orientation (veganism), and is generally unreliable. Starvation will kill a person, lack of vitamen C causes scurvy, there are a few things that have strong causal connections with outcomes. There are many more where the understanding is at best fuzzy.

Alex said...

Also the whole BMI thing is suspect. What we really need to start doing is body composition testing of the entire world population. Then we'll know how to rank the countries.

Alex said...

Inga... it doesn't matter. People are falling for the fast food, the beetus soda, the convenience junk crap in the middle aisles of supermarkets. It's TOO easy now! Every time I go about for errands everyone looks fatter than the week before! It's truly astonishing what's happening.

Alex said...

I typically have my coffee with a teaspoon of sugar. What I can't fathom are these Starbucks drinks that are loaded with up to 80g of sugar. You know the ones. Venti mocha latte with sprinkles, whipped cream and 10 pumps of syrup. WHY? Are people that addicted to the sugahs? No wonder the beetus is skyrocketing.

traditionalguy said...

Dr Atkns was a cardiologist. He treated heart disease which has no cure. So a good Cardiologist balances out the stresses on the human body to extend life for as long as possible. The primary stress on the human body is carrying excess weight. The rest is blood pressure, heart rhythm, and excess fluids. But those follow weight gain and weight loss. Running a Mack truck using a small engine wears out the engine. The cardiologist pays extreme attention to the patient and figures out what he needs to extend life span. Atkins was a good cardiologist who put his patients first.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I eat meat, fat, veggies, fruit and grains in that order, plus I only eat them once a day in a 4 hour eating window. My Total cholesterol came down nicely, especially my LDL. Triglycerides never were high, but they too came down, HDL went up. My ratios improved significantly. Even my TSH levels went down, which according to accepted medical knowledge should’ve went up making my metabolism down regulate. But the opposite happened. Three TSHs in a row now and I have not downregulated my metabolism by fasting 18 to 20 hours a day. Also lost 40 pounds.

D 2 said...

Healthy people who eat right and exercise right looking down on the atrocious eating habits and incredible laziness of others are the worst form of prejudicial bigots.

Sure, it starts with food choices, but we all know eventually it leads to reprimand about sex, neighbourhood design, music, and possibly chariot teams.

Go Blues! Destroy the Greens and Reds! Berries over Leeks and Meat Forever!

Etienne said...

No Good Lt says...I don't give a fig for your opinion...

Fair enough. I don't seek your favor.

"What's wrong with ketchup...?"

The largest ingredient by volume is high fructose corn syrup (mis-labeled "corn syrup").

HFCS has high levels of mercury, the toxic metal that is known to affect the nervous system and the brain. This mercury can cause your child to be born with birth defects.

The liver cannot process HFCS, thus it enters the bloodstream directly through leaky bowels. Eats the lining of the bowels making them leaky.

Although Heinz is now marketing a ketchup with sugar instead of HFCS, but who knows sugar means sugar to corporate lawyers.

HT said...

M. Jordan, I meant what do you do when you get a craving for carbs after exercise?

You need soluble and insoluble fiber in the diet.

"The damage is at the mitochondrial level, and it probably doesn't reverse." My understanding that it does not happen to everyone abusing their bodies with simple sugars. I don't really know why, but suspect it is because it takes a few generations to do damage, to change the DNA such that susceptibility is increased (maybe) by the 4th generation, so triggers (Cheetohs, sheet cakes) more easily do damage.

I read GCBC by Taubes years ago (and commented here) and love it. I am always relieved that someone thinks it's ok to eat meat, because I do, but I am not sold that it is not carcinogenic nor do I understand exactly which ones might be (the smoked meats? Grilled meat that's burnt?). And I am also not sure that it does not cause heart disease, though my triglycerides were nearly non-existent last year when I gave up sugar for months at a time, but ate meat and vegetables of course (and more simple carbs, just nothing with added sugar).

"Your body releases more insulin with each spike which in turn stimulates insulin receptors on your cells. If the cells are stimulated too much, the cells get exhausted and down-regulate. So, you don't store your glucose as effeciently, or turn it into energy as effeciently and it ends up floating around in your blood. We call that diabetes. The excess glucose makes your blood kind of "sticky" which results in more inflammation of the arteries and the organs bathed in your blood. So you get things like heart disease and peripheral vascular disease. Maybe I misunderstood the excerpt, but eating complex carbs is not at all like eating simple carbs. Those experts should know better. Tsk."

That seems exactly right.

Etienne said...

Alex said...French obesity rates have skyrocketed in the last 20 years.

Native French haven't changed, but immigration is rapidly changing France, and the new immigrants have no interest in native foods.

You can put a can of Dinty Moore and a can of Cassoulet and the immigrant will choose Dinty Moore.

By the way here's some real comedy about Cassoulet, and you don't even have to understand French. The guy is trying to sell British Cassoulet to the French, and they are getting really angry and violent.

British Cassoulet

Michael K said...

The food virtue signaling in this thread is hilarious.

"Fast Food" means poor people's food.

How many people have eaten dinner in a restaurant in Paris?

Just hilarious.

Alex said...

I also read GCBC 10 years ago and thought he had a lot interesting things to say backed up by real studies. However I was never willing to go whole-hog on the super high fat diet as I do not believe spiking your cholesterol is a great idea. I have no issue with having low-carb days mixed with medium and high-carb days during the week. I think the main problem these days are the extreme fad diets. Just eat everything in moderation, mostly plants.

Alex said...

Michael - give me a break! Donald Trump is gorging on fast food and he can afford better. Everyone loves the Big Mac! It's not always about eating like Gordon fucking Ramsay.

Etienne said...

Michael K said...How many people have eaten dinner in a restaurant in Paris?

I've never been west of the Meuse River... but anyway, I like German food better.

What's the attraction of Parisian restaurants? ...or did I miss the nuance of the discussion?

Rigelsen said...

Probably said by a butterhuffer who weights 300lbs. Excuse me while I pay more attention to what fit people say.

I’ll bet a $100 that you won’t find a “butter Hoffer” who’s 300lbs who doesn’t also huff simple carbs, refined or otherwise.

Etienne said...

Bob said..."real sugar" is 50% fructose.

Fair enough, I should have said low fructose (50% or less) is better for you than high fructose (55% or more).

Francisco D said...

"How many people have eaten dinner in a restaurant in Paris?"

(Raises hand).

Quite a few times.

Almost every meal was excellent. The French are low-to-moderate when it comes to carbs and portion size, at least at bistros and brasseries. They do not worry much about fat. I ate like a king and lost two pounds over 10 days.

Speaking of which, I saw very few obese people in Paris. People there looked very trim. I attributed it to no snacking, eating slowly, drinking only with meals, smoking cigarettes and walking very fast. (Driving is like a Keystone Cops film).

I have never heard of a French person going on a diet. Interesting.

Michael K said...

I think walking is a factor. Lots of walking in Paris because there is no place to park.

Lots of motor scooters but still most walk between Metro stations.

Michael K said...

What's the attraction of Parisian restaurants? ...or did I miss the nuance of the discussion?

Rich sauces.

Birkel said...

Has anybody else cooked with “almond flour”?
I have and find it is a good low-carb replacement for regular flour.

RBE said...

I lost thirty pounds on a moderately low-carb diet. It was hard at first but worked for me.

Michael K said...


Blogger Alex said...
Michael - give me a break! Donald Trump is gorging on fast food and he can afford better.


Unlike your virtue signaling, maybe he likes it.

His energy at age 70 is amazing.How's yours?

tcrosse said...

What's the attraction of Parisian restaurants? ...or did I miss the nuance of the discussion?

Charming waiters.

Bay Area Guy said...

"How many people have eaten dinner in a restaurant in Paris?"

Sadly, I cannot raise my hand to this, although I would like to.

The good news is that I am going to Italy next spring. And, I hear the food is real good there. Who doesn't like spaghetti and meatballs?

I have not traveled extensively outside of the US, except for drunken road trips to Tijuana, which don't count.

I did serve in the Military, stationed in Japan, and the food was......Japanese.

I've been to Ireland, and the food is not bad, but nothing great. Chips and beans.

So when, regrettably, it comes to food, I remain an epicurean philistine.

However: eat a few more vegetables, and much less desserts, and you will likely not become a disgusting fat-body.


Birkel said...

I ate at the French restaurant at Disney’s “It’s a Small World” and it was really good.
The young women servers are the type of U.S. imports I definitely support.
:-)

Bilwick said...

When it comes to nutrition and health stuff, I follow Mark Twain's advice on jury trials: "If you didn't like the verdict, wait a while."

Birkel said...

Asking again:

Has anybody else cooked with “almond flour”?

traditionalguy said...

McDonalds just added a fresh ( not frozen) cooked to order burger it comes as the angus beef Quarter pounder/cheese /double or Artisan burger. It is $5 and worth the wait. Throw out the bottom bun. Bon Appetit.

Bob Boyd said...

"Asking again:

Has anybody else cooked with “almond flour”?"


Yes.

madAsHell said...

"champagne wishes and caviar dreams" have left the building!!

Bay Area Guy said...

At McDonald's in France, they call the QuarterPounder with Cheese, the Royale with Cheese

Birches said...

I have not downregulated my metabolism by fasting 18 to 20 hours a day. Also lost 40 pounds.

Ace, is that you?

Crimso said...

I'm just going to leave this right here.

Nutrition makes a lot more sense when you look at it biochemically. Not complete sense, just a lot more than what you typically get from such sources as the article in the OP (and some of the comments here).

Rana said...

Birkel, I have baked with almond flour and used it to make pancakes, both of which turned out great. I see recipes for bread made with almond flour on Pinterest, but it looks so unlike good sandwich bread that I am loath to try it.

Achilles said...

WK said...

Occasionally feel like I am craving "something" but it was pretty easy once we decided to move forward.

The rest of your post was perfect.

Just want to throw out there that sugar free caffeine drinks take care of this part.

I like C4 pre-workout. You can buy a 3 month supply from Costco for $40.

The more research is done on caffeine the better it comes out. It is banned from sporting events like cycling for a reason.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Crimso,

Thank you for that exciting paper.

The short version: they gave mice fructose-infused water, which made them fat, stupid, and less energetic.

What we would do without scientists......

Achilles said...

Crimso said...

I'm just going to leave this right here.

Nutrition makes a lot more sense when you look at it biochemically. Not complete sense, just a lot more than what you typically get from such sources as the article in the OP (and some of the comments here).



The fructose cult is going to come for you if you keep posting that stuff.

They are tenacious and have been programmed for decades.

I grew up growing apples/cherries/pears.

Eleanor said...

I had put on weight very gradually over a lot of years. I asked my doctor about the best way to lose it. She said, "The same way you gained it. Slowly, over time. Eat less and move more." She's the one who suggested smaller plates. I collect antique dishes, and if I line my dinner plates up, you can see how our plates have become larger over time. Her next suggestion was to never take a second helping of anything until you've waited 30 minutes. It's how long it takes your stomach to tell your brain you're full. Then, this is very important, don't weigh anything. Don't count carbs or calories. Don't let food become the center of your life. Eat when you're hungry and enjoy every bite. Just keep the portions small. Find some exercise you like to do and do it frequently. Don't stress over it. Pick something that gives you pleasure. I lost 55 lbs in a year and a half. I've walked my dog around 600 miles/year. I dropped 3 dress sizes. There's no "diet" for me stop doing now that I weigh what I want to weigh again. It was a lifestyle change. I don't crave anything. If I want something, I eat it. No weight gained back for 3 years. It really is that simple. Some of you have turned what you eat into an obsession.

Jim at said...

At McDonald's in France, they call the QuarterPounder with Cheese, the Royale with Cheese

Check out the big brain on Brad!

Gojuplyr831@gmail.com said...

McDonalds in France also serve horsemeat. There is a market for horsemeat in Europe.

Shorter Crack "It's always white people's fault. And when it's not, it's their faqult it's not their fault, so it's their fault." Critical race theory at it's finest point of logic.

Yes, I know that makes me racist. But then, everything does so what the hell, I'll just go for living my life and laughing at the fools.

Francisco D said...

"Some of you have turned what you eat into an obsession."

Yes. That obsession is what leads to obesity.

I was obsessed with ice cream and ate it every night. I had to give it up completely because I was as psychologically addicted to ice cream as I was to cigarettes.

For me there was no way to be a moderate smoker or a moderate ice cream eater. I went cold turkey on the former 35 years ago and the latter was over 10 years ago.

RigelDog said...

Although Heinz is now marketing a ketchup with sugar instead of HFCS, but who knows sugar means sugar to corporate lawyers. }}}

They make a low sugar variety now. That's what I use and it has an acceptable amount of carbs for me.

Crimso said...

"The short version: they gave mice fructose-infused water, which made them fat, stupid, and less energetic."

Not even close. That was the control group.

RigelDog said...

Has anybody else cooked with “almond flour”?
I have and find it is a good low-carb replacement for regular flour. }}

I haven't but I would like to. Do you have any good recipes/tips? I've saved a million recipes online and I have a few cookbooks but have been chicken to try it out.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Ace, is that you?”

Who is Ace?

Birkel said...

Rigel,
As somebody above mentioned, look to Pinterest.
I ate crab cakes with almond flour last night.
Three carbs on the whole plate.
Wasn’t hungry until 18 hours later.

Birkel said...

Two cakes plus leafy veggies.

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