November 13, 2017

"The big step is empathy. Something I've had problems with, empathy. You know, when you have man brain..."

"... you are not capable of empathizing properly with women - which I don't think a lot of men are. And I'm not going to speak for all men, but I can speak for myself. To find that empathy it requires some sort of vigilance.... It's hard to understand that power dynamic is real and it exists because things have been the way they've been for a long time.... I'm 54 fucking years old and I'm surrounded by women in a work environment and it's not a problem for me to behave and it's not a problem for me to respect and appreciate and have boundaries and be in awe of the people I'm working with. I don't know that if it ever was necessarily a problem with me but I certainly have been a toxic male presence. I've been a very toxic male presence in my life. I think I operate now, it may be a 25 to 30 percent toxicity level but I've certainly been up around 90 in terms of being emotionally abusive, insensitive, angry, selfish, compulsive, and completely without empathy to the power structure that exists between men and women.... You know when you start to drift as a man into that the zone of like, yeah I don't see what the big deal is, [he] just jerked off in front of them, [he] jerked off on a phone, they could have left, [they] could have done this, they could have done that, you know he asked, that's not illegal. Yeah, but it's gross, it's creepy, it's massively inappropriate, it's potentially traumatizing.... To move from the toxic male, or just male disposition, of like what's the big deal, he didn't fuck em, he asked, he just jerked off, just kind of pathetic, it's like what's the big deal? Well the big deal is is that its boundary shattering, it is traumatizing, it is unexpected, it is shaming, and if you let yourself feel that, if you just let yourself feel what what all those women went through, even if it didn't seem violent to you, or like rape or any of that shit.... And look, I hope this doesn't come off as any sort of apology for anything, you know. I'm disappointed in my friend. He did some gross shit, some damaging shit, and people are like how are you gonna be friends with that guy? He's my friend. Now he fucked up and he's in big fucking trouble, so, well, what am I gonna do? I'm just - I'm gonna be his friend...."

Marc Maron monologues from his position as a comedian friend of Louis C.K., who has heard the rumors over the years and is under obvious pressure to explain himself.

Audio here. Transcript here.

73 comments:

MayBee said...

The women who heard about it don't have to explain themselves or apologize.

Women have no agency.

Kevin said...

You know when you start to drift as a man into that the zone of like, yeah I don't see what the big deal is, [he] just jerked off in front of them, [he] jerked off on a phone, they could have left, [they] could have done this, they could have done that, you know he asked, that's not illegal.

These are the same people who didn't believe Trump's much more tame comments to Billy Bush constituted "locker room talk", right?

These are the same men, who when asked by their wives and girlfriends about Trump's comments, answered that they'd never heard such a thing, right?

Just checking.

traditionalguy said...

OK , how does a transgender get a working Man brain. Is it by a chip implant , using the Manchurian Candidate chip?

All this mea culpa sounds like prisoner's of the Matriarchy begging for mercy. But if the women are all Empathy all of the time, why do men need to beg to live?

Bay Area Guy said...

It's good, I guess, to have these people speak their minds on this sensitive issue. You can at least learn where they're heads are at.

But is it just me or do they sound so....juvenile?

The 50+ year old men I know do revel in the past. We drink a few beers, we talk about ex-girlfriends, we pine for the college days, we laugh about pranks we did, but without all this creepy weirdness. We all have made our money and have wives and kids, and daughters, Jeez. At some point, YOU GROW OUT OF COLLEGE FRAT BOY DAYS, hello.

Case in point. I was at a mini-reunion this weekend, at a college football game. 5 male-college friends, 3 wives, 4 daughters and 2 sons. We had a grand time. We drank beer. We played touch football, we laughed, we reminisced, we took photos. But when you have wives and daughters there, you try to keep the stories reasonably close to PG. You understand boundaries.

These Hollywood idiots seem to not understand simple boundaries. They seem to be nerdy guys who were unable to form healthy male-female relations in their youth, and just got weirder and uglier as they got older, even as they stumbled onto success and power.

Kevin said...

Here is a hint, Marc Maron. If Louis CK decided to jerk off in front of you, would you have said, "I could have left, [I] could have done this, I could have done that, you know he asked, that's not illegal"?

I really don't think you'd be discussing the legality of it, friend or no.

Mike Sylwester said...

Why does it all have to be one paragraph?

Tony said...

"We are complete assholes, and there is no other excuse" would have been much shorter and better.

DanTheMan said...

>>I think I operate now, it may be a 25 to 30 percent toxicity level but I've certainly been up around 90 in terms of being emotionally abusive, insensitive, angry, selfish, compulsive, and completely without empathy to the power structure that exists between men and women

What are the units of masculine toxicity, I wonder? And how is he able to measure it to such precision?
"Frank, I'm getting a reading of 11 kiloClintons. I think you need another dose of estrogen...."

richard mcenroe said...

Somewhere the ghosts of the Red Guards look up from their burning rings of fire at these self-criticism sessions and have a much needed laugh...

Bill Peschel said...

"Why does it all have to be one paragraph?"

That's the way he talks.

On one of his shows Maron brought on this guy who he was trying to reconcile with. Apparently, Maron shafted him years ago, so they had a long talk about all that, and by the end of the show, MM used his trademark "we good?" Yeah, yeah, we all good. Maron promised to call him again and maybe get him on his IFC show.

Awhile later, Maron interviews the guy, who wondered why Maron never called him back.

So, yeah, he may be 30 percent the asshole he used to be. It just puts him on the same level as the rest of Hollywood.

By the way, Maron's the same guy who called Trump voters "evil." Full stop. No oking.

So I guess I'm eviler than Marc Maron. Go figure.

Roger Sweeny said...

Do NOT give me this shit that all men are terrible and don't understand because there are a lot of assholes in your business. Stop. Just stop.

bobby said...

"You know when you start to drift as a man into that the zone of like, yeah I don't see what the big deal is, [he] just jerked off in front of them, [he] jerked off on a phone, they could have left, [they] could have done this, they could have done that, you know he asked, that's not illegal."

If he was truly thinking what he says he was thinking - hey, no big deal, she could've left, blah blah blah - then he needs to stop apologizing for his toxic masculinity and start apologizing for just being an ass.

Nobody that I know - male, female, hypermasculine whatever - thinks like that. He wants to rope me into his own guilt just because I'm a guy, and the truth is that being a guy has nothing to do with his essential character defects.

DKWalser said...

Two quick stories: Soon after I moved to Dallas, one of the men invited me into his office where other professionals (men and some women) were using a telescope. Their particular focus was on a pretty redhead on the street 6 floors below. I wasn't told what they were looking at, so I looked. She was nice (and fully clothed). After a quick glance through the scope, I asked, "Is this jr. high or a business office?" I was never invited back to look through the telescope.

A few months later, I joined one of the firm's technical committees. We had quarterly meetings with committee members flying into the host city. After a couple of meetings, I learned that everyone was arriving the evening before for dinner. My instructions had always been to arrive the morning of the meeting. So, I asked if I should be arriving the evening before like everyone else. I was told that flying out of Dallas, with its excellent flight connections, made it possible for me to fly in the day of the meeting. That wasn't true of most of the rest of the committee. I felt really stupid when a women joined our committee and she wasn't invited the dinner the evening before, either. The real reason: 'Dinner' was an evening at a strip club. The rest of the committee knew I didn't go to strip clubs, which is why I hadn't been invited. With a woman on the committee, the 'optional dinner' the night before became a thing of the past.

I mention these two 'incidents' because, in the off chance I ever run for political office, I want to get it out there. I didn't do enough to prevent these horrible examples of toxic masculinity. Sure, I didn't participate myself, but I should have done something more than merely abstain. I am so ashamed! I am sorry if anyone may have been offended.

/sarc

robinintn said...

@Tony - Yes, he could have said that, and it would be true, but he went with an attempt to dodge responsibility: "When you have a man brain ... you are not capable of empathizing properly with women", an ugly slur against all men that spreads the guilt around and means they're nothing special, asshole-wise.

rcocean said...

Sorry, i couldn't get through all that blather.

Real men don't dream of jerking off in front of women.

Its something 14 y/o boys do.

Lem said...

Probably these were situations adults consuming adult beverages and other moods altering substances. Not to excuse CK entirely. But when I was active in the night club scene a few times it was decided not to continue club hopping but to go to someone’s apartment nearby and nothing was written down or anything.

A couple of times I saw women with their top off and things went along like no big deal.

One time I remember I had a bottle in the car and I thought these guirls might loosen up even more if I go get it.

If we want to pretend these things don’t happen, knock yourselves out.

CK just happened not to be very attractive or something, gave off a creepy vibe and nobody else in the party was “hitting it off” as the mother who married her daughter would put it.

William said...

The act involved is not in my repertoire, nor even in my fantasy life. Is this kind of thing common? I've heard women complain about being flashed by exhibitionists, but I've never heard any woman complain about a guy masturbating during a business meeting......I disapprove of the act, but my toxic masculinity is such that I don't think it would be an overwhelmingly traumatic event for an adult woman to overcome. Well, maybe female comics. Lots of therapy sessions in their lives. They like to savor the trauma and roll around in it.......It's all very confusing--the misconduct, the women's reaction to the misconduct, my reaction to their reaction. I get the vague sense that all of this is my fault because I voted for Trump.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"Its something 14 y/o boys do."

Not even them. These guys are fucked up in ways that, at heart, have little to do with their gender/sex/whatever.

Valentine Smith said...

It's called creepiness not masculinity. Once again the left gets to define the terms of the narrative by uncritically picking up the current doctrinaire nomenclature of the campus left. Fuck them and the degenerates they lump with good men.

William said...

I liked Richard Dreyfus's apology. While specifically denying the criminal part of the allegation, he commended the woman for her courage in coming forward and apologized for his aggresive flirting. Iirc, he called himself an asshole. These lawyers and pr people really know how to craft an apology. If you didn't know better, you would think it was written by the actor in question and was really sincere.....I guess this is Macron's way of getting ahead of the complicity thing. He admits to bad behavior on his part, to making excuses for the bad behavior of his friend, and vowing to remain true to that friend while detailing his friend's vileness. We saw not just humility and an earnest search for the right way forward but also the kind of moral grandeur that St. Francis struggled all his life to achieve.

Quaestor said...

The problem isn't man-brain, whatever that is... it's a general absence of virility.

Jack Wayne said...

"... you are not capable of empathizing properly with women - which I don't think a lot of men are.” Fuck empathizing with anyone. Be honest and let the chips fall where they may. Empathizing is just another way to tell white lies.

Lem said...

Somebody once said...

"We don't really learn what people think from what they say, only how they choose to talk about it."

Very apt to this post.

Feranindianide said...

when you have man brain...
And I'm not going to speak for all men, but I can speak for myself.


Kinda incoherent, even for virtue signaling, but mostly TL;DR.

tim in vermont said...

Women are really great at empathizing with men though. Really great...

Char Char Binks said...

Maron is just a jerk like his buddy Louie. Oh well, Louie is out of show biz now.Maybe Maron will join him soon.

Robert Cook said...

"OK, how does a transgender get a working Man brain?"

If you're speaking about a female-to-male transition, the person would reply that (s)he already had a male brain...trapped in an externally female body. This is the crux of what transgender persons claim: that they see and feel themselves internally as being a particular gender, but a gender that is not matched by their external physical form. To them, the operation isn't changing them into another gender, but merely correcting the external physical aspects to fit their true gender, as experienced by them internally.

Can it be that you don't already know this? Or do you know it and dispute it?

Robert Cook said...

"At some point, YOU GROW OUT OF COLLEGE FRAT BOY DAYS, hello."

This isn't true for everyone, sadly.

Xmas said...

I have lots of problems with the "Toxic Masculinity" thing. The basic premise comes down to men being unable to release their emotion in the way that works best for them. It delegitimizes their thoughts, feelings and reactions. Once you start believing the Toxic Masculinity thing about yourself, it will eat away at your soul. It's like Maoist struggle sessions or Soviet "self-criticism" or Scientology Auditing.

Robert Cook said...

"Do NOT give me this shit that all men are terrible and don't understand because there are a lot of assholes in your business. Stop. Just stop."

I agree. Frankly, anyone past toddler-hood who doesn't recognize that being emotionally abusive to or masturbating in front of others is inappropriate and gross is seriously emotionally and cognitively impaired...if they're not simply lying.

Bob Boyd said...

Assuming the little people like nothing better than watching their betters self-gratify is very common among our elites these days.

rhhardin said...

No man is so afraid of the mob.

Robert Cook said...

"'... you are not capable of empathizing properly with women - which I don't think a lot of men are.' Fuck empathizing with anyone. Be honest and let the chips fall where they may. Empathizing is just another way to tell white lies."

I get the impression you don't what "empathy" means.

buwaya said...

"Or do you know it and dispute it?"

Its pretty easy to dispute it as there is a very limited historical record of such an expression of madness. A much better explanation is that mad people latch on to manias that vary according to what their culture is suggesting are fashionable expressions.

That is, the crazy is the same, the form of it culturally determined.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"but merely correcting the external physical aspects to fit their true gender, as experienced by them internally."

That's a pretty fair (though by no means the only) definition of insanity, Bob.

dreams said...

I think is germane.

"From One Frenzy to the Next"

"America is in another of its Salem moments. Frenzy is almost a living, breathing monster. It moves from host to host, fueled by rumor, gossip, and self-righteous furor."

"In all these hysterias and frenzies, caution and moderation become proof of complicity. Calls for quiet reflection and moments of calm to weigh evidence are seen as veritable confessions of guilt or aiding and abetting the crime. To demand respect for the spirit of due process is to offer proof of one’s own culpability. One day, actor Richard Dreyfuss is furious that Kevin Spacey allegedly groped his son right under his nose. The next, Richard Dreyfuss is outraged that he is accused of allegedly earlier doing something himself far worse to a similar young aspirant."

https://amgreatness.com/2017/11/13/from-one-frenzy-to-the-next/

rightguy2 said...

I long for the days when guys were much less self-conscious about what they came off like- they were what they were, and, they weren't what they weren't.

And this guy/MM, whoever he is, apparently has bought into this current feminist crap about "toxic masculinity". Louis CK is a demonstrably sick person, period. Masculinity has nothing to do with it, except with regard to masturbation technique.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

Really, how much distance is there between the broad-shouldered, 6'2" tranny in makeup and an ill-fitting dress, and the guy walking down the street, wildly gesticulating and raving to himself. They're both moving in an alternate internal reality that no one else really believes.

Don't get me wrong. I feel great compassion for both of them and think they've been appallingly ill-served. But the fact that the tranny is actually encouraged in his delusion, to the point on enabling him to have himself mutilated, and then that mutilation is actually celebrated by a segment of society, is just fucking barbaric.

Jupiter said...

"You know when you start to drift as a man into that the zone of like, yeah I don't see what the big deal is, [he] just jerked off in front of them, [he] jerked off on a phone, they could have left, [they] could have done this, they could have done that, you know he asked, that's not illegal."

In short, when you view the matter as it actually is, in the physical world, you are "suffering" from toxic masculinity. Back in the hippie days, they used to talk about "hearing colors and seeing sounds". That must be what it's like to have estrogen poisoning. Everything that occurs is an occasion to experience an emotion.

buwaya said...

As an example of culturally determined mental illness, consider anorexia.

This was a very rare condition early in the last century, but there has been consistent growth in the rate and mortality of this illness.

Is this a genetically determined illness? It doesn't seem likely.
Otherwise the rate would have been steady.

Hunter said...

You know when you start to drift as a man into that the zone of like, yeah I don't see what the big deal is, [he] just jerked off in front of them, [he] jerked off on a phone, they could have left, [they] could have done this, they could have done that, you know he asked, that's not illegal.

You aren't inclined to think these things because you're a man, you're inclined to think them because you're soaked in the moral degeneracy of our times, and particularly of the leftist enclaves where you live and socialize.

Of course all the people who've warned us about this effect of being soaked in moral degeneracy were uptight prudes, repressed, laughable, closeted homos, bigots, etc.

This isn't about Toxic Masculinity, because masculinity isn't toxic. Masculinity protects the innocent and vulnerable. If you shrug off other men's destructive behavior, maybe wring your hands in private but otherwise do and say nothing -- that's not being masculine, that's being a pussy.

Unknown said...

If Maron has a job with a boss or some contractual obligation, he needs to be relieved of it before he gets his company liable for some verbal or actual stupidity.

buwaya said...

An example of rate variability -

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2053633

50-year trends in the incidence of anorexia nervosa in Rochester, Minn.: a population-based study.

"Due to a quadratic trend in the rates for girls 10-19 years old, the incidence rate among female residents fell from 16.6 per 100,000 person-years in the 1935-1939 period to a low of 7.0 in 1950-1954 and increased to 26.3 in 1980-1984. The incidence rates for women 20 years old and older and for males remained constant. For females 15-24 years old, there was a linear increase. The overall age-adjusted incidence rate per 100,000 person-years was 14.6 for females and 1.8 for males. The prevalence rate per 100,000 population was 269.9 for females and 22.5 for males."

Other very recent studies seem to show that the rate is now falling.

So, does it seem likely that teenage girls almost quadrupled their incidence rate of anorexia in 30 years because they were "born that way"? Or was it, to put it bluntly, a fad?

Temujin said...

Pathetic. Maron's pathetic. Louis CK is a disappointment...and pathetic. He always seemed like a slob. A funny slob. As it turns out, he is. Is there any decent, common sense-filled person in the entertainment/media industry? Anyone with any actual moral compass? I mean, Jesus, these people throw out terms like 'speaking truth to power, man'. Vacuous fucks. They're all either insufferably pompous wieners, or just plain void of any of the sort of decency that is required to live in a civil society. Speaking of which...anyone seen a civil society lately? I know I lost mine. Wow.

rightguy2 said...

I remember seeing a small crowd in front of a club while I was sauntering down Bourbon street years ago. Everyone was gawking at a guy seated on the concrete, jerking off. Yeah, it was gross and he was real drunk. Everybody cheered when he finished.



tim in vermont said...

I get the impression you don't what "empathy" means

That was my thought too.

steve knoche said...

How about just be a gentleman and treat women in your presence like you would want others to treat your mother, sister or grandmother? There's no psychological insight or power relationship that needs to be understood. Just common sense.

Rick said...

This isn't about Toxic Masculinity, because masculinity isn't toxic.

This is about people who have immense power over certain types of other people using that power to satisfy their basest desires. People need to understand how a drive for fame and wealth makes them easily manipulable.

veni vidi vici said...

Love the overgeneralizing by this holier-than-thou cocksucker.

He can go fuck himself. And no, never heard of his lame ass, and not about to google him either.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Definitely take your moral instruction from the Media--from people like Marc Maron & Louis CK.

They are our betters. Just ask 'em.

Howard said...

The fucker claims he isn't a cunt, rather he's trying to sell his readers that he's a victim of being male.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The feminazis are winning - in the only way they can:

The complete de-sexualization of America.

God help us. We are on a downward spiral to becoming the most boring and predictable Disneyland masquerading as a nation on earth.

Camille Paglia was right. The trade-off for no deviants - sexual or otherwise (of even the most containable variety) will be a nation of no da Vinci's, no Elvises or Chuck Berrys, no Howard Hugheses, no Jim Morrisons, no Van Goghs, no Lewis Carrolls, no Pablo Picassos, and you can forget about any decent political leadership.

This is the country they've always wanted. The circle is complete. The merger of feminism with puritanism has apparently been the inevitable end-goal and we can now sit back and watch our country cede any all claim to being an epicenter of creative energy to all the other sexually healthier parts of the world - which is nearly all of them except for Arabia. Pretty astounding that no one ever made THAT connection.

This country is over.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The mere fact that adults in this country resort to emotive children's language to describe sexual eccentricity ("creepiness!") shows how immature Americans are. Just get the fuck over it.

Not all sexual indiscretion is violative. Some of it is just impolite, or rude.

I guess as we become increasingly like our uptight British forebears we will now look forward to getting our cheap thrills in the ways reserved to them - comedy sketch bits. All the while sacrificing any claim to dynamism, creative energy and whatever else distinguished us from that nation of grim, boring, overcast and overbearingly apologetic drag queens. FUCK THIS!

Clark said...

I don't think many of us are having as difficult a time recognizing the wrongness of CK's actions as Maron seems to think. In fact, many of us would probably consider this cause enough to end a friendship.

John Smith Smith said...

Howard at 9:44, that is sort of what I thought at first. But then again ... if Maron had been born female and was sticking up for his best female friend, let me ask you this - who among us (besides me and a few others, who judge not our fellow humans by whichever faults are more common to their sex, but overlook the difficulties we all have, being almost all of us unattractive to those we find attractive - the math works out) would say ... who among us would say, the fucker, the cunt, the liar, the phony victim? Perhaps we would say sisterhood is beautiful ... who would not have tears in their eyes, seeing the charismatic young defense attorney get her young beautiful friend acquitted in the court of public opinion of the charge of selfishly and foolishly and almost criminally masturbating in front of young men who were too handsome to ever be her real boyfriends? Well, I would not have tears in my eyes, but I don't use words like 'fucker' or 'cunt', so I am unusual. Maron tried to stand by a friend. I have little respect for sub-literate anti-Trump blowhards like Maron, I can't understand why someone would want Louis CK as a friend, and I resent the hatred almost every contemporary Maherite liberal - and I am told Maron is a Maherite liberal - has for the simple humble good things decent people want for their humble, non-criminal, loved ones. But, all that being said, I respect someone who does his best, however limited that might be, to stand by a friend, as poor little Maron did. I hope, mutatis mutandis, or ceteris paribus, that nobody, no matter how much of what you call a 'fucker' or a 'cunt' they might be, never loses hope to one day have such a friend. Well, let's agree, or at least agree to disagree.

Howard said...

John Smith Smith: Maron gives a low information, vague confession and blames his bad behavior on his sex being toxic. He is playing the victim card for himself and apologizing for LCK's vile abuse of his position of power. He wasn't standing by his friend, he was covering his ass and playing both ends against the middle to save face. I don't see a female equivalent here because the sexes may have connecting parts, they do not have interchangeable parts. I didn't understand your anti-Trump Bill Maher digression. This type of shit, IMO, transcends politics.

dwick said...

Surprised Althouse didn't try to tell us the passage above is actually extremely well-spoken (like Louis CK's imbecilic screed yesterday)

Scott M said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

Fuck you, Marc. My life is hard enough without worrying about the sort of shit you're ascribing to men. Your navel-gazing is probably welcome in the very circles you covet, but not here.

JMW Turner said...

I'm a conventionally straight up man, and I'm empathetic as hell!

FIDO said...

The question is a) has he believed all the female BS about villainizing men, in which case, I have some sympathy.

or b) is he lying just to stay in the 'good' column enough to get laid?

Either way, science is still working on detecting that spine.

Women, not to put too fine a point on it, can be pretty damned toxic to work with too. Just go to an intersectional women's study convention and see who is not speaking to whom by day three.

John Smith Smith said...

Howard - he is a scared little fuck. And he is standing up for his friend who just lost a lifetime's worth of paychecks. That is a big deal in their world, and, although I agree with every word you wrote, I admire the poor little fuck for standing up for his friend, I am not disagreeing with you on anything (the anti-Trump thing was just a detail - I hate how people signal how good they are by saying they hate Trump - I love haters, and I love them so much I want them to stop hating) ...I have spent my life being harassed by landlords, employers, tax bureaucrats. I will never be rich and will never be, without lots of effort, attractive to the opposite sex (I am heterosexual) and if I were gay I would never be, without lots of effort, attractive to the same sex, I guess, not that I have ever given that very much thought. Maybe I don't understand, but maybe we agree on the point I was trying to make - If Louis CK had been born a hot chick - there are millions of them, hot chicks who are just as much stuck on being a selfish female as the repulsive Louis CK (but he can do better, and he will, in the future, he promised) is stuck on being a selfish male - I wish it were not true, God bless their little hearts, but it is true ... and it is not the fault of any poor lecherous dude that he was not born a lecherous babe -I am trying to be accurate here - and if Maron, whom I refuse to criticize for standing up for his friend - had been a hot chick - many people - maybe not you, but many people - would be saying, you go girl , you go Maron girl (I, of course, would never say that, in this circumstance....but I have sacrificed much to be a moral person....that is another story, of course). I have friends who remind me a lot of Trump so I stick up for the old guy every once in a while. I can't help it if it seems like a digression. I just like to point it out when a critic of Trump is sub-literate, because, as Aristotle says, human beings have an affinity for the truth (Metaphysics, Book Two, Nichomachean Ethics, Book One). Maybe I did not understand your comment, sorry about that. Ann A. is kind enough not to delete our rants, if that is what you think this was ..... Come on, if Louis CK were a hot chick who masturbated in front of men, would you call his friends bad names, in an effort to show that they were wrong? Well, I would (I would not use words like fuck and cunt, but that is just me - I used to live near San Francisco, where people really really abused the English language, and I learned not to be like them) , but would you?

cubanbob said...

God this topic is getting so overwrought. The matter has descended to the depths of bathos. Marc Maron, man up already.

Peter said...

I don't agree that the first step is empathy, a nebulous concept of 21st century psychobabble. The word may mean something about how we see the individuals we encounter, but how can anyone empathize with half of humanity? Shall I start with the character in Fifty Shades of Grey? The first step is to accept and support objective rules of behavior in the workplace and enforce sanctions for breaking them.

Focusing entirely on changing what is going on in male minds to fix this is like trying to stop drug pushers by trying to "uncover" their sense of the innocence and vulnerability of childhood.

Laslo Spatula said...

The Man Who Likes Underage Girls...

So many men today twist and torture themselves to not come in conflict with the Feminist Society. They pour themselves into the negative space left to them by Feminism and no longer recognize their shape...

Once a woman attends college she begins to change her nature like a transsexual changes his body: she has an Identity unmoored from her true self, and the cognitive dissonance warps not just herself but the men who exist around her...

Men will deny their masculinity so as not to run against the grain; they will feed women's illusions by becoming an illusion of their own, they will trade empathy to adapt to a world of Feminist passive-agression...

The high school girl has not been fully indoctrinated into this purposeful misunderstanding of the world: she is still a female defined by body and spirit, not neuroses and bitterness...

With the high school girl a man can exist as a man without pretense: he can educate and -- yes -- learn, existing in a relationship that has a natural center...

Oh, there is so much to tell about the Joys of young girls! Perhaps we will meet again, and I shall share more...

I am Laslo.

jaydub said...

"I've certainly been up around 90 in terms of being emotionally abusive, insensitive, angry, selfish, compulsive, and completely without empathy to the power structure that exists between men and women.."

I must have been particularly unlucky in my professional relationships because I have known just as many women who fit this description as men.

wildswan said...

Without honor and pride masculinity turns toxic. That's always what I've thought. And how can they be proud in Hollywood where they allow toxic masculinity but not honor and pride? But Hollywood isn't the whole country. Or the culture. It's just a place where people aren't "busy being born, they're busy dying." It's just a place that is over, no fun any more, a drunken party still going on with everyone throwing up and destroying everything in sight. Go outside, walk home through the snow, you'll see, lots of people are doing it.

Lost My Cookies said...

You're not supposed to befriend the witch, you burn it.

Also, I've never been in awe of someone that I've worked with or for. Maybe that's just me, but some I learned from, some I didn't, some I liked, and some I hated. Mostly we got along.

Robert Cook said...

"So, does it seem likely that teenage girls almost quadrupled their incidence rate of anorexia in 30 years because they were "born that way"? Or was it, to put it bluntly, a fad?"

Anorexia isn't a fad, but who ever said that those suffering with it were "born that way?"

Anorexia is an emotional disorder, a result of extreme social emphasis on female looks as a criterion of their worth, in particular, the emphasis that women must be thin, Thin, THIN. Everywhere they go, every minute of the day, from the time they hit puberty, women are scrutinized...by themselves, by men, by other females. Women judge themselves and other women, and are judged, according to how "attractive" they are relative to the prevailing cultural ideals of beauty. Marilyn Monroe, considered among the sexiest women of her era, would be considered by some to be "overweight" by today's standards. This constant self-scrutiny and awareness of scrutiny by others, appraising one's looks--and from that, one's value--creates neurotic anxiety. Men experience anorexia, as well, but not at much lower rates.

tim in vermont said...

"most specifically about an incident at the U.S. Comedy Arts Festival in Aspen in 2002, when Louis C.K. allegedly exposed himself to comics Dana Min Goodman and Julia Wolov in his hotel room. Goodman and Wolov said they “heard that Louis C.K.’s manager was upset that they were talking about [the misconduct] openly.” Becky originally told the Times: “I never threatened anyone.”

Ok, LCK is scum. I thought they were fans. Apologies to Unknown. This was career related.

tim in vermont said...

Jesus, Laslo, we are not worthy.

Michael K said...

If you want to see real empathy, this might be a good example.

“Far away from cameras and fanfare,” Brown saw a “lone man” who he later realized was retired U.S. Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis, who is secretary of defense. At the time, he was surprised to see him at Section 60, but upon reflection, he told IJR, “I can't imagine anywhere else he'd be on Veterans Day.”

An older man, who donned a hat and sweatshirt with Marine Corps logos and slogans, approached Mattis, shook his hand, and called it an “honor” to meet the general. While the father was moved to see him, he clarified to Mattis, “I know that's just the kind of man you are.”

Brown explained to IJR that the man had been visiting the grave of his son, who was a Marine and told Mattis his son considered him “his hero.”

The general smiled and said something similar to, “Well, I think your son is one of mine.”


No TV cameras.

n.n said...

Women, at least a significant minority, like to indulge in an illusion of empathy at the expense of other people's labor, dignity (e.g. progressive/color diversity), and lives deemed unworthy, inconvenient, or profitable.