July 22, 2017

"The professor was just offering up some red meat so the racists and phony hero's would crawl out of their caves and show their disgusting underbellies."

"This blog is one big troll and the commentariat are the unwitting subjects of a psychopathology experiment."

Said Howard in the post about the 5 teenagers who taunted and laughed and recorded video as a man drowned before their eyes.

I'll just say... The phony hero's what?

And let me give you an example of a commenter who used that thread as an occasion to tell a story of his own (phony?) heroism. Gahrie wrote:
I was a longterm substitute teacher at a middle school that took the entire 7th grade to the museums and beach in San Diego. The kids were allowed to go in the water, and at least half did. I was the only teacher in the water. Six kids, all of whom were chronic trouble makers I later discovered, got caught in a rip current and were trapped where the waves were breaking also. No one noticed but me, and I immediately swam out to them without thinking. All six grabbed on to me, and thank god I am a large man (buoyant), or I would not have been able to keep the seven of us up. The lifeguards eventually saw us and rescued all of us. They said I probably saved the life of at least a couple of the kids who were exhausted.

When I finally got the shakes and reacted, the scariest thing to me was that I didn't think about what I was doing, and instead just reacted.
And let's also see what the race-conscious analysis was like. (The drowning man was black, and people are assuming that the 5 teenagers are black.) First, here's Chuck:
I am going to give the [NY] Times a pass on their having not posted video. Although I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that if a black man had been drowning and the monstrous do-nothing onlookers had been white, that the Times would have posted all of it along with three [new] columns on the state of race relations.
And here's Clyde:
[T]o play devil's advocate: In Florida, any sizable body of water such as a pond has a very good chance of having an alligator in it. There's a very good chance that the black teens don't know how to swim. It's apparent from listening to the video that the victim drowned quickly and would have been dead long before help could arrive even if they had called 911. And since they were at the park smoking marijuana, calling 911 would just have gotten them involved with the police, which they obviously didn't want to happen, and you can't call 911 anonymously.
And, responding to Clyde, YoungHegelian:
Yes, all this is true.

I'd like to add, in my experience with teen-age boys, & especially the black teen-age boys in the DC area, that sort of goofy bravado is default behavior when caught in an unfamiliar situation. It's like you never, ever show fear or concern, for such would be seen as a sign of weakness.

You have no idea how many times I've been out driving & some young black man will just step out boldly to cross against traffic. And you know what? He'll never look up the entire time! It's almost as if when he makes eye contact with a driver, the jig will be up. Hell, I'd look up & around when jaywalking just to make sure I don't get splattered by some clown who's looking at his cell phone & not the road. Not these guys.

And, yes, it gets them killed. In my county in suburban DC (Montgomery County, MD), each year more pedestrians are struck & killed by cars then there are victims of murder.
And here's Big Mike:
I want to add that I'm very distressed to see the comments that raise a racial issue (or potential racial issue). I grew up in [a] small Midwestern quarry town, and the white teenagers among whom I grew up would have acted no differently. Well, except fifty-five years ago they wouldn't have had cellphones, they'd have been smoking cigarettes and not weed, and there was no 911, no Internet, no social media.

148 comments:

Quayle said...

My disgusting underbelly is that I tend to comment on a blog about comments.

What in the world of psychopathology is driving me to do that?

Owen said...

Trolling brought in a rich catch of comments.

Kevin said...

Perhaps the professor was just offering up some red meat so her commenters who see everything through the prism of race, and believe calling someone else racist is the ultimate signifier of their superior self-worth, would crawl out of their caves and show their disgusting underbellies.

But I don't know why this post would be considered particularly juicy. For them the entire internet is one big butcher shop.

Chuck said...

The fact that we ARE in the era of cellphones and 911 services makes all the difference in this case. Althouse didn't mention one of the admirable early comments; to the effect that the teens in question quite apparently had at least one cellphone, which they used to record the lurid video INSTEAD OF CALLING 911.

As for proof of the race of the teens, I'll simply wait until they are charged, which now appears imminent.

Any word yet on whether Professor Althouse reconsidered her personal judgment to not watch the subject video?


Kevin said...

It's a mark of her love of constructive dialogue that the professor works so hard to create a forum for it. Especially, when the public's basic ability to engage in it seems lower than ever.

Birkel said...

If charged and under 18, fopdoodles will be forced to wait for pictures.

I read the comments, mostly, last night but found the whole thing too off-putting to offer my take.

Humperdink said...

The good professor's lack of censorship is what keeps me coming back. Howard, there are many blogs that would welcome your style.

AllenS said...

She (Simone Scott, sister) expressed frustration with the investigation and said she wondered how Mr. Dunn, who she said was disabled and walked with a cane, ended up in the middle of the pond.

Yeah, me too. That is the most important of this story. He is a long way from shore. Did the kids have something to do about that?

Now, the possibility of the black kids knowing how to swim is small. Also, they couldn't call 911 because they could not find the 11 on the phone.

Ann Althouse said...

What I really was doing was getting around to a story other people were talking about that I didn't pick up early. In that situation, I tend to refrain from just repeating what's already been done on other websites. I needed an additional angle to make it worth blogging.

The additional angle was the topic of the Florida statutes and the problem of wanting to do something to these boys when what they did isn't a crime (in the legal sense).

I didn't know what I'd say about it until I got into writing and working with the particular text of the NYT article. What I found myself doing is what I realize this morning is something I associate with and like about Alan Dershowitz.

I was stressing the principles of the criminal justice system because they were getting lost in an emotional reaction to the individuals. People were horrified and disgusted by what the boys did, and to me, that's exactly when you have to elevate the principles. It's just like the way you have to fight for free speech rights when the speech is outrageous and offensive.

There needs to be a text to charge them with a crime.

Then I also had an instinct to provide them with the legal defense they'd be entitled if somehow they were charged. I wanted to take the evidence and interpret it sympathetically to them. That gives readers and chance to come back and argue with me, but that's a real legal and moral argument, not just yelling and bullshitting.

Chuck said...

I want to add a point on the racial component of this story, and why it rose to the forefront of my mind. It is this:

The Times, as linked by Professor Althouse, didn't post the video. They described the video, in racially-neutral (race-free?) terms. In other cases of racially-charged police shootings, the Times has posted full videos. So we know that the Times is not following the moral/personal compunctions Professor Althouse, who did not search or view the video herself. Althouse, we learned, does not like snuff films or terrorist execution/beheading films. As is her right, and I am in much agreement with her.

But again, the Times chose to post video of something like the Philando Castile video, but chose not to post this video.

The Times also chose not to enable comments for the story about the case.

Those disparities caused me to raise the issue of the race of the teens. Had the Times posted video, Althouse might have viewed it (or not). Having viewed the video, I dare say Althouse might have posted a different comment.

Laslo Spatula said...

"White Culture Expectations of Black Youth: Can't They All Just Be Buckwheat?" (excerpt)

The White Culture's perceived actions of black youth betrays an intersectionality with the mythic stereotypes first employed in the early days of film. While "Birth Of a Nation" is an obvious marker, the real damage can be seen in the seemingly anodyne films meant for children. As such, "Our Gang" (or, as it was later know, "Little Rascals"), beginning in 1922, can be seen as Point Zero in the White Perception of Black Youth Culture...

The black characters of Buckwheat, Farina, and Stymie showed the best of what could be expected of black youth: unintelligent, occasionally unintelligible, they were generally harmless when keep as a lone figure amongst superior whites who kept them in their place...

Witness 1928's "Spook Spoofing": the white children cruelly taunt the black male Farina over his superstitious ways. The symbolism is inescapable: the ignorant black youth is bullied into accepting the oppressing White Culture. Notably absent are other representatives of black youth: rebellion was not an option to white audiences....

The inclination of the White Culture to label many black youth as 'feral' is to witness the perception of the Buckwheats, Farinas, and Stymies without the supposed controlling factor of some idyllic benevolent white guidance. Without a Spanky to suppress them they are apt to transgress White expectations, always to their detriment...

I am Laslo.

Sebastian said...

"There needs to be a text to charge them with a crime." Put Mueller on the case. He'll find something. Plus his ginormous team is now big enough to continue without him.

Humperdink said...

My take: There is literally zero chance (maybe less than that) of these teens being convicted of anything regarding that poor souls death. A defense lawyer would/could claim the waters were too dangerous/ the boys could not swim/ they were terrified of water ....

OTOH, the teens could suffer OJ's fate. They could get 9-30 years for smoking dope.

David Begley said...

Althouse wrote, "I was stressing the principles of the criminal justice system because they were getting lost in an emotional reaction to the individuals."

And rightly so. That's what a law professor (retired) does.

Chuck:

Without the audio, one would not begin to guess the race of the teen observers,

Kevin said...

Then I also had an instinct to provide them with the legal defense they'd be entitled if somehow they were charged. I wanted to take the evidence and interpret it sympathetically to them. That gives readers and chance to come back and argue with me, but that's a real legal and moral argument, not just yelling and bullshitting.

There are many cases where the courts have ruled that even police on the job have no duty to intervene. I don't see how you're going to then create a duty for ordinary citizens, let alone minors.

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

City says cops had no duty to protect subway hero who subdued killer

MisterBuddwing said...

Authorities are looking to charge the teens with failing to report a death. I'm just a layman, but that sounds suspiciously like an attempt to misapply the law to achieve an emotionally desired result.

traditionalguy said...

He is correct. We are guilty of having real life experiences, underbelly and all, which we do not filter using The Required Narrative. This blog's commenters are grown ups. And the eternally protected from reality snowflakes seem to be very jealous.

Kevin said...

"There needs to be a text to charge them with a crime."

What? We're being told 24/7 that sufficient moral outrage is enough to convict.

Laslo Spatula said...

"White Culture Expectations of Black Youth: Can't They All Just Be Buckwheat?" (excerpt)

One of the issues of Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie is why they were ever in these films in the first place: after all, the shows were a celebration of the impetuous freedom coddled in White Youth. The answer, however, is obvious: The White Culture found it necessary, whenever possible, to exhibit blacks as examples of their place in White Society. To Whites these shorts were a comedy; to Blacks, they were a warning...

Depicting the blacks capable of being among whites as children bespoke of the inherent fear of what these black children would grow into: the dangerous black teenager and the rebellious black male adult. Black Innocence could only exist within the boundaries placed by their White companions...

The Fear of the Black teenager is obvious when one realizes how little he is seen in films of this day: the only blacks permissible were uneducated children and submissive minstrel adults. The Black Teenage years were to be silently feared, for they would push against the constraints of White-defined acceptable behavior....

I am Laslo.

Kevin said...

Authorities are looking to charge the teens with failing to report a death. I'm just a layman, but that sounds suspiciously like an attempt to misapply the law to achieve an emotionally desired result.

They not only reported it, they recorded and narrated it.

Ann Althouse said...

"The fact that we ARE in the era of cellphones and 911 services makes all the difference in this case. Althouse didn't mention one of the admirable early comments; to the effect that the teens in question quite apparently had at least one cellphone, which they used to record the lurid video INSTEAD OF CALLING 911."

One of the comments I put in this post deals with the issue of not calling 911, and as I said in the comments to the other post, there are some subcultures in America (I think) where they don't call the police. The woman in Minneapolis who got shot to death by a cop was (presumably) in a social group that believes the police are people who come and help when you call. Not everyone believes that, and she'd still be alive if she believed that.

Maybe those 5 boys didn't want to have to interact with the cops and assume the cops would give them trouble. Maybe they don't believe the cops would come and save a man like the man they saw drowning. Maybe they didn't even think of calling the cops.

traditionalguy said...

And The Professor is correct that there is no duty to rescue the endangered. As I told my wife, the Laws are pro choice on this issue. She looked at me very hard for saying that.

Chuck said...

David Begley said...
...
Chuck:

Without the audio, one would not begin to guess the race of the teen observers,

I could not agree more. The people who were struck by the race of the teens were the people who read the Times story but who then went further -- because the Times and Althouse both declined to post any link -- to locate a link to the full video, and watch it.

Again, I am very much sympatico with Althouse's moral refusal to watch any sort of "snuff" video. Anything that graphically diminishes the humanity of a person at the moment of death, or which would place in her own head an irrevocable visual image of horror or terror.

I "watched" the video, which you call "audio." And it is interesting that you call it "audio," because in fact it really is more audio, than video. Althouse could have just listened to the video in this case, and would have learned what I feel is a good bit more than what the Times reported.

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

"My take: There is literally zero chance (maybe less than that) of these teens being convicted of anything regarding that poor souls death. A defense lawyer would/could claim the waters were too dangerous/ the boys could not swim/ they were terrified of water ...."

It should not reach that point. You would first need a statute that makes it a crime to fail to rescue. Florida does not have a statute like that. End of story. Doesn't matter whether they could have rescued. They did not have to try, even it it was heartless to refuse.

Chuck said...

Maybe those 5 boys didn't want to have to interact with the cops and assume the cops would give them trouble. Maybe they don't believe the cops would come and save a man like the man they saw drowning. Maybe they didn't even think of calling the cops.

Maybe, if you listened to the video-recorded words of the teens, you'd have an appreciation of what little serious rationalization they were engaging in at all; and what sociopathic bastards they are.

Ann Althouse said...

Are people deciding that the 5 boys were black because of their voices?

I remember when the issue of determining race by the sound of a voice came up in the O.J. Simpson trial. Some passerby heard a voice from the crime scene that he characterized as black. That witness (as I remember) was treated as though he were a racist for thinking he could tell race from the sound of a voice.

Owen said...

Agree with Prof A strategy on this. No text, no crime. Emotion is the antithesis of law, and it is shocking cases like this that test our adherence to and understanding of law; and of the limits of law. Prof A's posing of arguments here is like her proposed defense of the university which is disciplining an employee (Lutz) for posting his "corrected" version of a note left on his windshield by an ex-girlfriend. A great catalyst for Socratic dialogue.

Fernandinande said...

"People were horrified and disgusted by what the boys did,"

Which was pretty interesting response because the "teens" really didn't do much of anything, and AFAIK, laughing at someone who is dying isn't actually proscribed anywhere, whether in religion or secular laws: the "horror and disgust" was a gut-level reaction (as all moral reactions really are), and many people seemed to be more outraged than if they had shot and killed someone in a robbery.

Calls for punishment: punishment doesn't mean much to psychopaths, their brains react differently so it's almost pointless unless the punishment involves removing them from society. If they really were psychopaths, which you can't determine from this one incident, they'd probably feel proud about having their pictures in the paper. Punishing "norm violations", like their laughter, sets off pleasure centers in the brains of the punishers; an approved form of sadism.

Society isn't becoming more callous or violent or otherwise falling apart; if anything it's just the opposite, nationally and worldwide. There aren't any malevolent spirits floating around (you can't spell 'maLevOLent' without lol.).

Some regions have "duty to help" laws if you can do so without risk, like using a phone or throwing a life preserver. There was a post here a few months back about two people being charged with murder/manslaughter for not informing the fire department that the building they set on fire was emtpy, and firemen were killed when they went in to rescue people who weren't there.

Peter Irons said...

Ann responds incoherently and unconvincingly to the criticism she received.

Chuck said...

I think I'd be satisfied with abandoning any claim that there was any legal duty for the teens to "rescue" anybody.*

So let's just stick to a "duty to report." The teens, by any reasonable account, had the actual knowledge that the man was drowning, they had time to make a cellphone call, they had the means to make the call (a charged cellphone that was being used to make a video), and an understanding of what number to call -- 911.

*Having been a Boy Scout, I can think of thousands of teenage boys who would have sprung into action to try to rescue the man in question. They'd have jumped into the water themselves, or run along the shore to find a small boat, or a floatation device, etc.

Laslo Spatula said...

"White Culture Expectations of Black Youth: Can't They All Just Be Buckwheat?" (excerpt)

It is painfully obvious to any oppressed observer that White Culture is often fixated on Nostalgia, with Nostalgia being defined as looking back at a time when blacks knew their place. Even in the Seventies, a TV show such as "Happy Days" had to look back twenty years to find the culture that was wistfully missed: indeed, "Happy Days" did not even have a token Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie -- perhaps the reason the show was called "Happy Days"...

Today the invocation of Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie has been shamed into something more subtle: the young gay male, as seen in the Oscar-winning "Moonlight." The gay Black youth is reduced to non-reproducing: the Oppressing Culture's best hope for continued dominance...

I am Laslo.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The issue with guessing the race of the teens is one that has been brought on by the media itself being deceptive in many other cases.

How often do we hear/read stories of "teens" or "youths" committing crimes, rioting, looting, vandalizing only to later learn that they are bands of roving black teens or youths. The media wants to HIDE the race of the perpetrators for various reasons.

The fact that the media hides the truth to promote some sort of narrative that they/the media want to advance leads us to the feeling that anytime there is this sort of fuzzy reporting and obfuscation....it is black youths etc.

This, of course, is not fair. However, by the media writing these types of stories, leaving OUT the facts in an attempt to (I suppose) stop people from being racist.....instead they are promoting racism. When we hear the 'code words', the generic "youths", "teens".....we all know what they are hiding. Or at least we think we do.

If they would report the TRUTH, we wouldn't need to feel this way.

Humperdink said...

Humperdink said: ""My take: There is literally zero chance (maybe less than that) of these teens being convicted of anything regarding that poor souls death. A defense lawyer would/could claim the waters were too dangerous/ the boys could not swim/ they were terrified of water ...."

AA responded: "It should not reach that point. You would first need a statute that makes it a crime to fail to rescue. Florida does not have a statute like that. End of story....."

Dershowitz: "I don’t like criminal investigations to start hoping that you have the target, maybe we’ll find the crime. Maybe we’ll find the statute. If we can’t find the statute we’ll stretch the statute to fit the person. That sounds like Lavrentiy Beria and Joseph Stalin. ‘Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.’ I don’t want to ever see that come to America." (CNN May 28, 2017)

It's already here.

Chuck said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...
Are people deciding that the 5 boys were black because of their voices?

Mostly, yes. But I am not "deciding"; I am presuming. I am presuming, and now I am awaiting their booking and arraignment.

I think I'll get back to everybody when that happens.

My question for you is, are you deciding that any presumption about the race of the teens is unfounded, even when you have not heard the recording?

MayBee said...

That witness (as I remember) was treated as though he were a racist for thinking he could tell race from the sound of a voice.

That's true, he was treated as racist by Johnny Cochrane, the defense attorney. Who redecorated OJs house to appeal more to the black jurists. And taunted Chris Darden for being a black man trying to convict OJ Simpson. So kind of a master at playing the race game to his advantage. And it was to his advantage to pretend you cannot possibly guess the race of a person by the sound of their voice.

Laslo Spatula said...

"White Culture Expectations of Black Youth: Can't They All Just Be Buckwheat?" (excerpt)

The Fear of the Black Teenager is often seen today in the White Panic response to Rap Culture. The early action of diversion was successful: the spirit of Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie was easily found in MC Hammer and the Young MC...

Witness that Our Gang had room available for a Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie; compare this to the Wu-Tang Clan: RZA, GZA, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Method Man, Raekwon, Ghostface Killah, Inspectah Deck, U-God and Masta Killa -- not a Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie to be found, and -- hence -- the White Fear...

I am Laslo.

Michael K said...

Anyone who listened to the video, and it autoplayed on facebook, knew what race those boys were.

This nonsense about racism is silly. Everybody knows who is doing all the violence in Chicago.

The political left has become a collection of old maids horrified at the manners of those sweaty, ignorant commoners.

MayBee said...

If they aren't black, who cares? One can still criticize their behavior. What if they are from a culture that does not contact police in case of emergency? What does that say about that culture?
And what if they were afraid they would get in trouble? Could they not *stop* taunting the man, call 911 and then leave before the police arrive? Was it more important to them to watch him die than to get help for him?

Bob Boyd said...

"So let's just stick to a "duty to report." "

Justine Damond unavailable for comment.

rhhardin said...

Underbelly was a failed folk and blues musician.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

There is a huge difference between the legal duty or obligation to report and the moral duty.

The offensiveness of what these boys did, or more pertinently didn't do, is based on their lack of morality. A distinct lack of human concern, empathy, morality to at least attempt to do something, do anything. Instead, they are amused at the death of another human being.

This moral vacuum is what is outrageous. Unfortunately, we have several generations of people who have been raised to think this this immorality is normal. This is why we cannot possibly deal with people who have this lack of moral compass as if they are operating with the same moral codes as we are.

MayBee said...

I think *Althouse* herself assumes they are black, thus finding an excuse for their behavior. Just as she once used to internally criticize as racist teachers who reprimanded black children for misbehaving. It is her instinct to defend them.

Gahrie said...

One of the comments I put in this post deals with the issue of not calling 911, and as I said in the comments to the other post, there are some subcultures in America (I think) where they don't call the police

So when their house is on fire they don't call 911 either? Calling 911 because someone is drowning is calling the fire department, not the police.

Fernandinande said...

Underbelly was a failed folk and blues musician.

Speaking of LOL...

Chuck said...

The (black) family of the drowned man will have an interesting take on whether black teens would have any racial/cultural defense for having deliberately not called 911.

David Begley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
khematite said...

Assuming that these teenagers are indeed black, this story seems to be a real-world analogue to what was reported back in 1994 when a class of black Oakland teenagers was taken to see a screening of "Schindler's List." They laughed during a scene of a Nazi soldier shooting a Jewish woman and were ordered to leave the theater when other patrons complained.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/13/us/laughter-at-film-brings-spielberg-visit.html

Laslo Spatula said...

"White Culture Expectations of Black Youth: Can't They All Just Be Buckwheat?" (excerpt)

In many ways Rap can be seen as a response to the 'Our Gang' template: in Hip-Hop they are their own gang -- posse -- without White Supervision...

White Oppression required Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie to be frequently unintelligible to be palatable; Rap turns this on its head by being fiercely unintelligible to the uninformed White Culture. Whites render themselves incapable of hearing the Black Voice so as to disassociate Black Culture from White: to further this, Black Youth detaches itself with Voice AND Vocabulary...

This method was employed even by 'cross-over' blacks, such as Michael Jackson. Witness the lyrics in the rap section of his track "She Drives Me Wild":

Please, no, keep back, I can't take it / You're drivin' me wild / I might not make it / You got me lookin' like buckwheat, oh / Hair pulled every which way but me / Far from Medusa, but your looks are deadly / You're walkin' soft, still I hear the medley / Uh, shiver my timberland boots, cramped my style / She drives me wild...

The line "You got me lookin' like buckwheat" shows the constant presence of Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie in Black Youth Consciousness, and illustrates the desire to take the name on their own terms, as has been done with the word 'nigger'...

I am Laslo.

David Begley said...

DBQ wrote, "This moral vacuum is what is outrageous. Unfortunately, we have several generations of people who have been raised to think this this immorality is normal."

And why is that? Teens in 1960 - regardless of race - would have called the first responders.

I think the answer is tied to how the Motown sound disappeared and rap became the popular music.

FullMoon said...

Most comments mentioned failure to call 911. I posted a link to police and fire standing on the shore in Alameda Ca, watching a man eventually drown. Professional "rescuers" stood there and watched him drown because of "budget cuts".

Also many commenters with real world experience pointed out that not unusual for teen boys to be callous.

Gahrie said...

I think the answer is tied to how the Motown sound disappeared and rap became the popular music.

Gangsta rap and thug life are symptoms, not causes. The causes are the destruction of faith and family.

Gahrie said...

Professional "rescuers" stood there and watched him drown because of "budget cuts".

And I was even more outraged about that when it happened. But what can you do..it's California?

Laslo Spatula said...

David Begley said...
"I think the answer is tied to how the Motown sound disappeared and rap became the popular music."

See 8:46 and 9:02.

I am Laslo.

Michael said...

The new book on Bannon opens with an antidote about how Bannon figured out who was leaking. He listened to the news and noted that the leaker was never described by gender: so it was always "the source" or the "highly placed official" etc. When he saw that they never used the personal pronoun he knew it was KellyAnne Conway who the press was protecting by not alluding to the sex of the leaker. The same "tells" are evident in this story: we know the poor man who drowned was black and we know that the incident occurred in a township that was predominately black. But the voices are the giveaway. Those are black kids talking which anyone living in the south who has interacted with blacks for decades would recognize. Another way of knowing is that white kids do not speak with those inflections and cadences. Now maybe they were Lithuanian refugees living in a black community who picked up some of the rhythms of black speech but I kind of doubt it.

David Begley said...

Gahre:

Add in public schools as a cause.

William said...

Who's waving and who's drowning? I can easily imagine white teenagers acting in a callow way. What I can't imagine is anyone repressing or calibrating their disapproval of such behavior if white teenagers were involved.

Achilles said...

"There needs to be a text to charge them with a crime."

Tell that to Mueller and the Stalinist left.

Gahrie said...

Just for the record, I do not consider what I did to be heroic. Frankly in the culture I grew up in, it was simply how you were expected to behave...you protect children.

Heroism IMO requires a conscious decision to place yourself in danger for others, and I never did that.

Achilles said...

"The gay Black youth is reduced to non-reproducing: the Oppressing Culture's best hope for continued dominance..."

Between that and planned parenthood...

Chuck said...

FullMoon said...
Most comments mentioned failure to call 911. I posted a link to police and fire standing on the shore in Alameda Ca, watching a man eventually drown. Professional "rescuers" stood there and watched him drown because of "budget cuts".

Nobody cares, because yours is such a stupid point and such a waste of time.

The Alameda case isn't any legal precedent; it doesn't stand for any proposition that police have no duty to respond.

In that case, the Alameda authorities have been severely criticized, and rightly so, for their actions. But in any case their actions or lack thereof were guided by department regulations dealing with ocean rescues in very cold water. It isn't as if they all decided to do nothing but wait; the police on shore were waiting for air and water rescue assets. Someone, with proper equipment, was going to try. It was too late. And again I don't wish to defend the Alameda authorities. I didn't even want to engage on this stupid sideshow that you've raised.

These bastard teens in Florida never gave anybody a chance for police intervention. The Cocoa Police might have acted very differently. We'll never know, because the Florida teens didn't call as happened in Alameda.

AllenS said...

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out that the kids are black. Think about it, if the kids were white every black person in congress, tv, radio, MSM, sports, and the whole BLM movement would be on this case like stink on shit.

Laslo Spatula said...

Achilles said...
"The gay Black youth is reduced to non-reproducing: the Oppressing Culture's best hope for continued dominance..."

"Between that and planned parenthood..."

I was hoping someone would read between the lines.

I am Laslo.

William said...

Footnote to Laslo's ruminations on Buckwheat: In the South, Our Gang comedies were not screened because they showed integrated schools..... Hollywood used to show stereotypes of just about everyone. Now they're much more woke. They only show stereotypes of Christians and oil executives.

AllenS said...

And, to add on to my 9:15 comment, you can be assured that they would find some reason to charge those kids if they were white. Maybe even Althouse.

MayBee said...

I can easily imagine white teenagers acting in a callow way. What I can't imagine is anyone repressing or calibrating their disapproval of such behavior if white teenagers were involved

Exactly, William.

William said...

This far into the thread and no one has mentioned Ted Kennedy.

Laslo Spatula said...

"White Culture Expectations of Black Youth: Can't They All Just Be Buckwheat?" (excerpt)

The importance of Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie to the White Oppressive Culture is that the Black Youth can never be the Hero -- whether the Hero of their own story, or the Hero in the White Patriarchal sense of White Patriarchal Courage...

What would be the response of Buckwheat, Farnia and Stymie to a dangerous situation? To run and get Spanky. Spanky-- the White Culture -- would know what to do. However, today's Black Youth see no reason to run to Whites for help, a response that triggers fear in Whites....

The White Oppressive Culture has shown itself to willfully fail in response to Black Cries of Help: there is no White Help in the Ghetto, no White Help in the schools, no White Help in the overcrowded prisons...

I am Laslo.

Fernandinande said...

Gahrie said...
Gangsta rap and thug life are symptoms, not causes.


Trends in Homicide Among Black Americans

"The phenomenon of extremely high homicide rates in the nonwhite population is not new.

Since 1914, when national mortality data were tabulated
for the first time by cause of death and race, death rates from homicide among nonwhite males have exceeded those for white males by factors as great as 13 to 1."

(I've finally realized that almost nobody cares about actual numbers and data, and would rather just pull stuff out of their asses, so - if you're an outlier, look at the paper)

MayBee said...

The Alemeda case was used to criticize those who would cut the budgets of government. The rescuers in that case couldn't go in the water because they were not properly "certified'. They weren't certified due to budget cuts.
"See?" They said "See what happens when you don't give enough money to government? They can't do proper training and people die" It was a pro-big government cudgel that came out of that situation.

A private citizen ended up swimming out to try to rescue that man.

FullMoon said...

Chuck said...

FullMoon said...
Most comments mentioned failure to call 911. I posted a link to police and fire standing on the shore in Alameda Ca, watching a man eventually drown. Professional "rescuers" stood there and watched him drown because of "budget cuts".

Nobody cares, because yours is such a stupid point and such a waste of time.

The Alameda case isn't any legal precedent; it doesn't stand for any proposition that police have no duty to respond.

In that case, the Alameda authorities have been severely criticized, and rightly so, for their actions. But in any case their actions or lack thereof were guided by department regulations dealing with ocean rescues in very cold water. It isn't as if they all decided to do nothing but wait; the police on shore were waiting for air and water rescue assets. Someone, with proper equipment, was going to try. It was too late. And again I don't wish to defend the Alameda authorities. I didn't even want to engage on this stupid sideshow that you've raised.

These bastard teens in Florida never gave anybody a chance for police intervention. The Cocoa Police might have acted very differently. We'll never know, because the Florida teens didn't call as happened in Alameda.

7/22/17, 9:15 AM


Gee, you're stupid. Nobody claiming legal precedent. Heroic cops and fireman watched a guy drown and didn't do a thing. It was too late because they all stood there with a metaphorical finger up their collective asses. The water is not too cold to attempt rescue. Those professionals fucked up and everybody admitted it.No doubt six foot 190 pound semi-pro golfer Chuck would have dove right in, whether Florida, or Alameda. Now, go bully some diminutive female newscaster or eleven year old boy, shit for brains.

rhhardin said...

The media show the most idiotic blacks they can find as black leaders and thinkers.

This keeps them in line.

n.n said...

Was it a Choice, or not a Choice, that is the question.

Now the "best and brightest", supporting psychos, and State-established Church have a choice. Will it be a Planned or planned outcome?

That said, if the class of diversity is listed, then there is no need to guess. If the class is not mentioned, then there is no need to guess. The mainstream media and other mainstream media have a history of [class] diversity that has caused people to become jaded.

Michael K said...

I think the answer is tied to how the Motown sound disappeared and rap became the popular music.

Others have already agreed but I think the whole rap music thing is a window into a degenerate culture that has replaced much of a black culture that was less toxic. I didn't know that black on black violence was 13 to 1 vs whites early in the 20th century.

I think I watched some of this in Chicago in the 1950s. The trend is frightening.

Balfegor said...

Why does everyone think the teens are Black? Their accents sound Chicano to me.

David Baker said...

Althouse: "Maybe those 5 boys didn't want to have to interact with the cops and assume the cops would give them trouble."

Agree. For African Americans, calling the police is a dangerous activity. And had the lady who was shot by the police in Minneapolis been black, she still be alive.

David Baker said...

AllenS said: "Also, they couldn't call 911 because they could not find the 11 on the phone."

Have to admit, that cracked me up!

Ken B said...

I am calling bullshit. No-one is ASSUMING they are black. They are INFERRING it, from vocal tone, speech patterns, and the character of the reporting.

Your willingness to cast this aspersions without even examining the evidence they examined does not speak well of you.

FullMoon said...

Chuck said...
These bastard teens in Florida never gave anybody a chance for police intervention. The Cocoa Police might have acted very differently. We'll never know, because the Florida teens didn't call as happened in Alameda.


What you really mean to say is "Those bastard black teens" isn't it Chuck? Your subtle racism is evident to all here. Maybe you are not aware how obvious it it. I posted a link to counter balance the mistaken idea that it is typical of blacks or teens to be unwilling to help. You immediately defended the in action of men paid to rescue others because you assume they are white. Even more disgusting than your fantasy of bruising up Greta van Sustern to "show her how it feels". Would love to get a look at your divorce papers. Spousal abuse expected.

Charlie Eklund said...

In my opinion, in the coming years and decades that stretch out before them, these young people will face the most punishing judge there is: their own consciences. As they mature into adulthood and take their places in life, what they said and how they laughed, what they failed to do to provide or to call for aid for a fellow human being in peril, will be with them always.

Frankly, I can't think of anything more just or more terrible than that.

Bob Ellison said...

Is Eminem black?

Ken B said...

I think Full Moon should be banned for the spousal abuse charge against Chuck.

Rob McLean said...

Full Moon is being a jerk, but it *is* satisfying watching Chuck get slapped around, for once.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Is encouraging someone to kill themselves that different from not attempting to save someone who is dying?

mockturtle said...

Ken B explains: They are INFERRING it, from vocal tone, speech patterns, and the character of the reporting.

Exactly. I didn't hear the audio but inferred ethnicity from the vernacular word usage. Unlike Ann and most of you [probably] I have known many black people, was once married to a black man and have a biracial daughter. Even educated blacks will sometimes use the vernacular, especially with other blacks. Implying someone is racist for acknowledging the obvious is an elitist form of hypocrisy.

FullMoon said...


Blogger Ken B said...

I think Full Moon should be banned for the spousal abuse charge against Chuck.

7/22/17, 10:05 AM
Blogger Rob McLean said...

Full Moon is being a jerk, but it *is* satisfying watching Chuck get slapped around, for once.

7/22/17, 10:06 AM


Naw, you guys mis-understand. Me and Chuck go way back. Back to the time he literally expressed a desire to manhandle Greta van Sustern. Took me a long time to realize that Chuck is a master at pulling people into making angry retorts to his comments. I generally laugh it off and am semi immune. He got me a good one today, and upon reflection, I was going to delete my comments. Then, I realized, deleting my comments would be like taking a trophy away from the T-Ball participant. Chuck got me, fair and square, so I will leave my humiliation up for all to see, and let Chuck enjoy his victory, this time.

Laslo Spatula said...

“It is the story,” she specifies, “of the four African-American stars of Our Gang — Sonny Hoskins, Ernie Morrison, Stymie Beard and Billie Thomas — the gang within the gang ...” So instead of just another fan book, this is a cultural history of the Our Gang phenomenon, the public responses to the films and to the “racial aspects” of the comedies.

"...the problem that affects all child actors, whatever their race: “turnover,” the unavoidable moment when the fact of having grown too old arrives. Stymie (Matthew Beard, whose post-Our Gang life was a sad tale of petty crime and addiction) remembered getting a “funny feeling” that “they’d brought Buckwheat in when I started getting too large just as they had brought me in when Farina started getting too large; and I knew that Farina had had the same feeling when I took his place.”

I am Laslo.

J. Farmer said...

This thread is evidence of why talking about racial issues in America is so frustrating. You don't have to believe that all black teens or even the typical black teen would behave this way. But blacks, in general, do behave worse than whites. This discrepancy shows up in pre-school behavior and continues right through public school and adulthood. Like most complex human behavior, this phenomenon is likely a mix of genetic and environmental factors. I have worked in either residential or in-home services for Juvenile Justice and Children and Family services my entire adult life and have had a front row seat to this phenomenon.

Michael K said...

"I think Full Moon should be banned for the spousal abuse charge against Chuck."

I didn't know they were married. I guess I've been working too much and missed all the news.

iowan2 said...

I call foul on our host. I swore off reading the trolling from Chuck, repleate with all of his inanities. Only to be tricked by the good Professor slipping his race baiting comments into the body of her post.
As usual your playground, your rules, carry on.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

All subcultures are equally worthy.
A subculture that teaches its members to avoid involving the authorities when witnessing a dying man is just as good as a subculture that teaches its members empathy, compassion, and a responsibility to at least take minimal action to help others.
Even though all subcultures are equally worthy you voluntarily choose to avoid living closely with members of some subcultures. Total coincidence.


By the way, inventing out of whole cloth reasons the young men acted as they did (they could have been been anxious, etc) and making up a characterization of their inner motivation (that they "struggled to explain" their reasoning) based on no evidence at all (since you didn't listen to the audio) is a bit more than giving a "sympathetic" take, ma'am. I'd you want to say your intent was to give the most positive possible speculative spin on the situation, fine, but that's neither just sympathetic nor anything like neutrality.

Laslo Spatula said...

From Buckwheat, Farina and Stymie to Kanye West, Jay-Z and Lil' Wayne.

In retrospect, the turning point was “The Mod Squad"

I am Laslo.

FullMoon said...

Michael K said...

"I think Full Moon should be banned for the spousal abuse charge against Chuck."

I didn't know they were married. I guess I've been working too much and missed all the news.

7/22/17, 10:24 AM


Cannot lie, that was pretty darn good.
I am feeling more bruised today than Michelle Fields at a Trump press conference.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I will say it again: if you want to say these people are not monsters for not helping, for not calling for help, for continuing to video the Man as he fought for his life, for not restraining themselves from laughing and shouting insults while a man in distress dies, well fine.
But who but monsters would save that video and pass it around to their friends?
Is sharing a "snuff film" not a monstrous act??
Or maybe you detect some "struggle" in that act, too. Oh, I know, maybe the young men hoped that by going viral this video will warn others about the dangers of swimming in ponds.
Yeah, that's it.

FullMoon said...

Gahrie said...

Professional "rescuers" stood there and watched him drown because of "budget cuts".

And I was even more outraged about that when it happened. But what can you do..it's California?

7/22/17, 9:06 AM


A twenty year old CA. girl braved the cold and waded in to retrieve the body. The particular police and fire are not representative of ca, or PD and FD in general. More representative of Govt. Union employees. Incidentally, over fifty onlookers were present. Police would not allow any to go in.

Laslo Spatula said...

Buckwheat, Farina and Stymie.

Wally Cleaver, Dobie Gillis and Richie Cunningham.

Making the monocle a pair of spectacles.

I am Laslo.

FullMoon said...

BTW, may as well mention the obvious. Commenter "Howard" pretty slick with his Highway 61 reference for the professor.

He asked poor Howard, "Where can I go?"
Howard said, "There's only one place I know"
Sam said, "Tell me quick, man, I got to run"
Oh, Howard just pointed with his gun
And said, "That way, down Highway 61"

Laslo Spatula said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

"So let's just stick to a "duty to report." The teens, by any reasonable account, had the actual knowledge that the man was drowning, they had time to make a cellphone call, they had the means to make the call (a charged cellphone that was being used to make a video), and an understanding of what number to call -- 911."

Are your ready to prosecute everyone who doesn't call 911 when they see someone in trouble? Even the nice people. Even your timid grandmother or the undocumented immigrant? Even the depressed person who thinks people have a right to commit suicide? Even the woman who is afraid if she calls the police will shoot her because she's in an alleyway wearing pajamas?

You have to think through the other cases and the demand for generally applicability in laws.

Laslo Spatula said...

The conception of Richie Cunningham's perception of Buckwheat could be seen as the fulcrum for further understanding the evolving dynamic of black/white relations.

As such: is Fonzie the forerunner of 'The Magic Negro'?

Fonzie, from Wiki:

"He and his mother were abandoned by his father..."

"Though at first looked down on and mistrusted (a result of his past and being a high school dropout)..."

"Fonzie is a high school dropout, prompting establishment characters in the show to see him as a rebel and bad influence...."

"Despite the respect he has earned, several people still antagonized him – including Officer Kirk (Ed Peck), an overzealous police officer who sometimes (though never successfully) tried to frame Fonzie or run him out of town..."

The Cool of Blacks symbolically transferred to Whites and made palatable, removing the Original Cool. Perhaps.

I am Laslo.

Ann Althouse said...

"BTW, may as well mention the obvious. Commenter "Howard" pretty slick with his Highway 61 reference for the professor.

He asked poor Howard, "Where can I go?"
Howard said, "There's only one place I know"
Sam said, "Tell me quick, man, I got to run"
Oh, Howard just pointed with his gun
And said, "That way, down Highway 61""

LOL.

Great.

Howard.

I had an Uncle Howard. And a grandfather, Howard. But I still think Howard is a good name for having fun with. How weird.

exiledonmainstreet said...

YH wrote of the DC area:

"You have no idea how many times I've been out driving & some young black man will just step out boldly to cross against traffic. And you know what? He'll never look up the entire time! It's almost as if when he makes eye contact with a driver, the jig will be up."


This is true, except that I do remember the young black men making eye contact with me after I had stopped to let them cross. They're playing a version of chicken - the entire point is to make you stop for them. When they look at you, the message is "I won." I wonder if they avoid eye contact when the driver is male. And as you note, often enough they don't win and get hit. Are they always hit unintentionally? I highly doubt that. I imagine sometimes they are hit out of fear, sometimes because the driver wants to win.

n.n said...

encouraging someone to kill... themselves

They could use the legal precedent from Planned Parenthood instigates mother to a Pro-Choice solution as a defense. There is no judge in Hawaii that would question their rites.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wildswan said...

Somewhat off the topic but nearby, nearer than you think to commenting about drowning in plain sight.

It's my opinion that as part of the Make America Great Again project we should aim to Make Great American Art For the First Time. We have never done this - we've only had great American artists. I mean we should aim to form a national school producing great art like Italian Renaissance painting or German music or Italian opera. We seem to be a literate, political and scientific culture almost without effort - we were the first democracy, we were first to the moon. Great art? not so much. It should be music, maybe. It's time for great music again. For that we need to find or form a group which is good at music and then train all its members in all the elements of music - I don't mean band for middle school, I mean music as they teach it at the Juilliard - theory, history. Using videos and such. There are people with musical memory and other talents important to music - and maybe enough in America. I feel sure that if we found and/or trained such a group then, on their own, they would produce great American musical art - art that relates to other art and to the past and to all of us, not just to themselves and their own surroundings. Then America would have at last great art.

If done rightly, the only thing that would stop this project would be if the aliens landed and took over and they were deaf and did not understand that this group was capable of creating great art in music in America and instead tried to make them into great civil engineers in a show of equality. And diversity.

AllenS said...

Ann Althouse said...
Are your ready to prosecute everyone who doesn't call 911 when they see someone in trouble? Even the nice people. Even your timid grandmother or the undocumented immigrant?

What a ridiculous statement. How many grandmothers are going to film a situation like this one, and laugh about it while it's happening and then show their friends the film?

Gospace said...

I've read that the telephone test for telling if someone on the other end is black by the way they speak is over 90% accurate if black is identified. And pretty much the same accuracy rate for saying the other person is a non-native speaker, though identifying the speaker's native language is largely guesswork.

In the same manner, the first name test allows people to separate out applications from blacks and non-blacks. A few years back someone noted that over 90% of black girls born in California had a first name that not a single white or Asian had. And it's spread to male names.

And regional accents and sayings can often help determine where someone is from. It's not 100% accurate. When my oldest entered 10th grade in a new school, on the first day of class his English teacher stated to the class "I can tell where anyone is from my listening to them talk." So my son stood up and started speaking extemporaneously. After 2 minutes or so the teacher stopped him and asked "Where the hell are you from?" We had just moved to the Albany NY area from ME, a one year stay. 4 years in VA before that. 4 states before that, and long vacations with relatives in 3 others.

I now live on the dividing line of a regionalism. To my East, all the stores have an aisle labeled "soda". To my West, the same aisle is labeled "Pop".

mockturtle said...

I now live on the dividing line of a regionalism. To my East, all the stores have an aisle labeled "soda". To my West, the same aisle is labeled "Pop".

All the stores I frequent have a 'Soft Drinks' aisle.

Earnest Prole said...

He says "one big troll" like that's a bad thing.

Chuck said...

Are your ready to prosecute everyone who doesn't call 911 when they see someone in trouble? Even the nice people. Even your timid grandmother or the undocumented immigrant? Even the depressed person who thinks people have a right to commit suicide? Even the woman who is afraid if she calls the police will shoot her because she's in an alleyway wearing pajamas?

No, as a prosecutor I would not be ready to try everything based on a simplistic phrase or notion. I expect that as a prosecutor, I would not be a prosecuting computer, but rather that I'd have a solemn duty to use discretion of some kind in the manner of such prosecutions.

I might not try every fatal auto accident as a case of manslaughter or reckless homicide. Some fatalities are the are the result of simple negligence, and are non-criminal. But if I had 2.5 minutes of video in which the mens rea of the accused was made clear to me, I might well bring more serious charges. If I had 2.5 minutes of video of teens in a car laughing about how fast they were going, and about how close they could get to hitting a pedestrian, and calling the pedestrians "bitches" and "junkies" and ultimately hitting a pedestrian who was admittedly jaywalking... yeah, I would employ my discretion.

I find it so curious that you would overlook or disregard a piece of evidence like the 2.5 minute video in question.

A prosecutor certainly doesn't need to prosecute every speeding motorist, every shoplifter, every bad check writer, every pot-smoker to be able to reasonably prosecute certain of those criminal acts.

I expect that prosecutions for failure to report a death will be odd and rare. No problem with that. I don't see any need to stretch legalisms, and I see no danger to public freedoms, if these teens are prosecuted under Sec. 406.11 and 406.12 of the Florida Statutes.

Misdemeanor of the first degree.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Ann,

Are you ready to prosecute everyone who doesn't call 911 when they see someone in trouble? Even the nice people. Even your timid grandmother or the undocumented immigrant? Even the depressed person who thinks people have a right to commit suicide? Even the woman who is afraid if she calls the police will shoot her because she's in an alleyway wearing pajamas?

911 is not "the police." And "in trouble" isn't "drowning." These kids yuk-yukked it up, cackling and hurling insults while the man was in acute distress. We are now in an environment where "cyberbullying" can get you kicked out of college (and, of course, your name revealed), but sitting around chortling while a man dies before your eyes means that no one will ever mention your name in connection with the death.

That is the thing that I want to happen. Maybe you are right; maybe a duty-to-do-something law would be cumbersome or impractical. But I want the names of these kids published. I want this case to be the first thing that comes up on a Google search for each of them for the rest of their lives. That is perfectly legal, nyet?

exhelodrvr1 said...

Maybe someone will paint a picture of this and hang it in the gallery of the U.S. Capitol.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

wildswan,

I've thought about this a lot lately. I do mean "band in middle school." Though I'm a stringed-instrument person myself, and we have much more "real music" and less "educational music." Meaning that you know the good from the crap early on.

The point is that without band in middle school, you won't have symphony orchestra in high school. My husband is orchestra director at a rather exceptional public high school. He runs three string orchestras and shares a full orchestra with the band director (who is a phenomenon -- his band has won the state championship eight years running).

Most of these kids will not be pursuing music as a career, but all of them will have been exposed to it, will have aural and tactile memories of it, will think of it as something real and immediate. They will mostly not be producers -- though I expect many of them to fall into community orchestras and the like -- but they will certainly be audiences.

I can hold forth on Juilliard -- I spent eight years there in the Pre-College Division, 1976-1984. I wasn't a stellar violinist, but by the end my theory and solfege were very good. (Juilliard has its own systems for notating intervals and rhythms. These seem to me still superior to all the equivalents. Very intuitive once you catch on.)

FullMoon said...


Most of these kids will not be pursuing music as a career, but all of them will have been exposed to it, will have aural and tactile memories of it, will think of it as something real and immediate. They will mostly not be producers -- though I expect many of them to fall into community orchestras and the like -- but they will certainly be audiences.

Same reason to keep require algebra, art class, shop classes. Some students might have a hidden gift or a proficiency that might otherwise go unrecognized.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

But, wildswan, continuing to your project, you must realize that Italian art and German music and all the rest were not government projects. I don't think they ever could be government projects. And when you talk of creating music, you aren't really thinking of the Juilliard model, because you're talking composition, not performance. It's not that Juilliard doesn't have composers -- it does -- but that performance is its primary purpose. I walked out of there with everything I needed to compose, except the desire to do it. I wanted to play, not write.

If you want a compositional Renaissance, you'll need to depend on private donors, as every other one has done. (OK, OK, I'll grant you Queen Christina and Prince Eszterhazy. That "public" and "private" money were much more intermingled then than now is what makes this complicated.)

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

FullMoon,

I don't think that every student should be required to do band or orchestra, or art or shop. But all of these should be available to those who want them. Algebra ... well, there I do see an argument for a requirement. (There's a Philip Dick short story whose premise is that you can have an "abortion" whenever you like of any kid who is under 12 and/or can't do algebra.)

David Baker said...

What Mockturtle said, particularly this: "Even educated blacks will sometimes use the vernacular, especially with other blacks. Implying someone is racist for acknowledging the obvious is an elitist form of hypocrisy."

I'll add, if you ever spoke to my black ex-girlfriend, you'd never know she was African American by voice alone. That is, except on those occasions when she said "burf-day" instead of birthday without realizing it.

Blacks call it "talking proper," which is not advisable if your an African American conversing in the ghetto. So it's rather amazing that they can keep the two "languages" separated - talking white to whites, and black in the ghetto. Even in three-way conversations that might occur in "neutral" locations, like in a mall or a Walmart.

It started out as a joke based on the movie "Airplane,", but we were working a book (pamphlet) on "How To Speak Ghetto." Like, drop the first syllable, and add a descriptive. For example, "Queen Latifah" in white world would be "Hey 'Tifah Bitch" in the ghetto.

Imagine shopping that on publisher's row.


FullMoon said...

I don't think that every student should be required to do band or orchestra, or art or shop. But all of these should be available to those who want them. Algebra ... well, there I do see an argument for a requirement. (There's a Philip Dick short story whose premise is that you can have an "abortion" whenever you like of any kid who is under 12 and/or can't do algebra.)

7/22/17, 12:48 PM

Yep, I should have said "available", as opposed to required. Was remembering a local high school converted auto shop to a dance studio.

Oso Negro said...

Perhaps the punishment for something reprehensible, but not illegal, should simply be sharing the news of the reprehensible act. The local Florida news could simply report on the story, post the video, the names of the boys, and even send reporters to interview their parents, neighbors, and school teachers. That would be quite enough, I should think.

mockturtle said...

I expect that as a prosecutor, I would not be a prosecuting computer, but rather that I'd have a solemn duty to use discretion of some kind in the manner of such prosecutions.

Well said, Chuck. Judgment and common sense should supersede precedence, IMO.

Bob Ellison said...

Michelle Dulak Thomson, I agree with you.

There was an argument, years ago, that "music makes you smarter".

That was dumb. Music doesn't make you smarter. The desire to make music is evidence of your specific intelligence.

Yancey Ward said...

It will be an injustice if the boys are charged with anything. That seemed to be Ms. Althouse's point in the first post- and one I agree with having looked at the laws cited. Conviction would just be an even greater injustice.

Again, "feel" is overtaking reason.

Yancey Ward said...

And I now see Ms. Althouse had already defended herself.

If I had only the audio evidence, I would have bet the teenagers were black, but that isn't the biggest piece of evidence here- the biggest piece of evidence is that the media itself doesn't tell you the ethnicity. That latter piece of evidence is easy to interpret in this day and age, especially given the ethnicity of the drowning victim.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Oso Negro said...
Perhaps the punishment for something reprehensible, but not illegal, should simply be sharing the news of the reprehensible act. The local Florida news could simply report on the story, post the video, the names of the boys, and even send reporters to interview their parents, neighbors, and school teachers. That would be quite enough, I should think.
7/22/17, 12:56 PM


What makes you think these people will care, treat them differently, or know anything about them that they didn't know before? You think these guttersnipes are going one day for banking jobs where somebody will google them for priors? Their drug dealer supervisors will consider it resume fodder deluxe, indeed, might set out to recruit them.

If you lined them all up and shot them one by one (a consummation devoutly to be wished), 4 would laugh at and mock the 5th...then 3 would jeer the 4th...then 2 would razz the 3rd...then one would deride the other...then he would cry, weep, moan, and blame Other.

Hyphenated American said...

It's easy to put liberals on the defensive here...
Ask them if "hate speech" is illegal. If yes, then these black thugs clearly committed a crime, since they clearly engaged in hate speech.
If liberals say that the black thugs committed no crime, then hate speech is legal and protected.

Rabel said...

"Maybe they didn't even think of calling the cops."

They did. Shortly after hearing the heartbreaking final cry from the drowning victim and seeing him go under for the last time one of the teens says they will have to call the "trol" (slang for the police) and he is denied by another, deeper voice.

We're all about the visual here so if you refuse to watch the video you're limiting your ability to comment rationally about the matter. It might seem cruel to watch a man die, but one can't be neutral without knowing the facts to the extent possible.

Bad Lieutenant said...

I don't see what's wrong with charging them for the actual offense "text" that's on the actual books, not reporting a death. Get what you can. You need to mark these so that people know what they are.


Re: Are your ready to prosecute everyone who doesn't call 911 when they see someone in trouble? Even the nice people. Even your timid grandmother

Gramma knows her duty and will do it.

or the undocumented immigrant?


Fuck yeah!


Even the depressed person who thinks people have a right to commit suicide?

Uh, yes, why not?

Even the woman who is afraid if she calls the police will shoot her because she's in an alleyway wearing pajamas?

She didn't need to be coerced.

(I understand it's a difficult job, but if the police are really that afraid that every rando is a cop killer, could we just encase them all in six feet of concrete?)

AllenS said...

They are going to be charged with not notifying authorities about a death. A misdemeanor.

Sebastian said...

White kids take pleasure in seeing a black man drown, MSM and allies report: "Bill Smith and Jim Jones and Tom Harris, white students at predominately white Strom Thurmond High School here in the suburbs of segregated Florida City, where middle-class white kids have been reported to smoke pot undisturbed on and off campus, earlier today stood by unconcerned, laughing and taking video, as a poor black man, Earl Johnson, drowned feet away from them in shallow water, where teenage swimmers go to cool off in the summer. None of the white boys called 911 or, in violation of Flordia law, reported the death. While no evidence has surfaced yet as to whether the white teenagers dared Mr. Johnson to jump in the water, or had thrown him in, law enforcement sources say they must have know when and where Mr. Johnson entered the water."

Black kids take pleasure in seeing a black man drown--well, how can you tell they were black? and how can you expect blacks to call 911, everyone knows they don't like to call "the cops"? and there's no crime, so what are we talking about? and what kind of racist would take issue with reports about "boys" and "teenagers" and "youth" doing something wrong, if they even did anything wrong?

Howard said...

Wow, a troll bite by trolling with the troll troll, which almost never works.

AllenS said...

Sebastian said...
Black kids take pleasure in seeing a black man drown--well, how can you tell they were black? and how can you expect blacks to call 911, everyone knows they don't like to call "the cops"?

When you call 911 (that's a nine, then a one, then another one), and you say someone is drowning, the dispatcher will send an EMT, at least one police car will also be dispatched for, at the very least, traffic control. Same with reporting a fire, the dispatcher will send the fire department, and again, at least one cop car will also be dispatched.

SukieTawdry said...

LOL, Laslo. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find this book actually exists.

I didn't watch the video. Not only do I not care to watch someone die, I seldom watch cell phone videos. Trying to follow their constant herky-jerky movements makes me nauseated. But I did listen. I can remember only one occasion when I was surprised the person I was listening to was black and there have been only a number of times I was surprised the speaker was white. I'm told I have a particularly good ear for accents and such, though.

If I call 911 to report someone drowning, I'm not thinking "cops." I'm thinking fire department or EMS responder although I certainly can appreciate that in some cultures 911 almost always means cops. Still, no excuse.

The cops said one of the mothers burst into tears when she heard what her son had done (or not done as the case may be). Perhaps there's hope for that one.

God save us from any do-gooders who would make a failure to act in circumstances like this a crime. I do think citizens have a duty to report a death they've witnessed, though, so I guess I'm okay with that.

Howard said...

Gahrie's story was not phony heroism, it was an admission of crazy bravery in response to inadequate supervision and a lack of training and experience.

My general comment on phony heroism was based on the numerous folks who claimed they would have jumped into the pond and rescue the drowning man. What I rudely failed to mention were the many reasonable comments that cited the fact that water rescue can be very dangerous and discretion is the better part of valor. It is very possible that the yout's were mocking the drowning man to cover up their fear of water and inability to execute a rescue.

The story about the drowning recruit and the laughing DI's was quite true. Several guys drowned during water survival training at the MCRD San Diego tank in the late 70's to the early 80's. Occasional training drowning still occurs.

Michael said...

President Obama had the bully pulpit for eight years to address the profoundly sick culture of the underclass and he did not. He squandered the single thing he could have done to make America great again and he did the opposite. Whether he did so out of pure political malice or stupidity coupled with unbelievable self regard we will never know. But the chance was lost and the downward trajectory of the underclass continues, accelerates.

SukieTawdry said...

What Obama did do, Michael, was issue directives seeking to cease holding members of the underclass responsible for their actions. He wanted different rules for minority kids subject to school discipline. He didn't want felons to have to disclose their records on job applications (Ban the Box became the rule for federal job applications). He went about commuting sentences for "non-violent" drug dealers. His justice department eschewed terms like "felon" and "convict" opting instead for "person who committed a crime" and "individual who was incarcerated." It pressured states to reclassify violent felonies to misdemeanors and change bail laws.

He did these things on the basis that the law as it stands has a disparate impact on people of color (and, in some instances, illegal aliens). He seemed to operate under the theory that if we don't treat people like delinquents and criminals, they won't behave like delinquents and criminals.

He did not even try to tackle any of the hard stuff like dependency, out-of-wedlock birth rates, disdain for education, self-victimization and cultural rot. I don't think he likes most black people any more than he likes white people. There's no telling yet how far he set us back.

EMyrt said...

rhhardin said...

Underbelly was a failed folk and blues musician.
7/22/17, 8:49 AM

Soft White Underbelly was the name of an early incarnation of the Blue Oyster Cult.

I'm Myrt

EMyrt said...

Ann, The Wikipedia article on Howard is informative.
Old Norse, one of its diminutives is Ward, Laslo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard

sunsong said...

They said I probably saved the life of at least a couple of the kids who were exhausted.

That's wonderful Gahrie! Well done!

MayBee said...

How different are these guys than the Penn State fraternity guys?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

There needs to be a text to charge them with a crime.

But they were obviously colluding with each other to not help the guy. That's not just a crime, that's a high crime!

Big Mike said...

But blacks, in general, do behave worse than whites. This discrepancy shows up in pre-school behavior and continues right through public school and adulthood. Like most complex human behavior, this phenomenon is likely a mix of genetic and environmental factors. I have worked in either residential or in-home services for Juvenile Justice and Children and Family services my entire adult life and have had a front row seat to this phenomenon.

See, this is the sort of thing I was arguing against with my comment. Too many people today have been schooled by the media and our education system to view things through the prism of race first, then any other factors later. I don't see how we can break through this, and look at issues of poor parenting, poor decision-making, and so forth until we develop the sort of color blind society I once demonstrated in favor of. Unlike Mr. Farmer, whose comment I've repeated, I've had the opportunity to work with very bright and hard-working black people, most notably a black Ph.D. geneticist who was working with our big data researchers to get a handle on a type of childhood cancer. HUD Secretary Carson is one of the most brilliant physicians of this generation, or so I've been told by every doctor who knows of his work. Let's stop looking at the prism of race and get serious about addressing our problems.

AllenS said...

Big Mike said...
But blacks, in general, do behave worse than whites.

Key words, "in general". Nobody has stated that all blacks behave worse than whites. There are some serious problems in big cities, with blacks committing an extraordinary amount of murders, and to not talk about the prism of race, means you'll never find a way out of our problems, whatever that means.

Big Mike said...

@AllenS, like Farmer you are looking at race first, problem second. That turns everybody who is black all defensive, and makes an opening for political demagogues of all races and ethnicities to hijack the solution in favor of a status quo that they can mine for votes. Don't you see that?

AllenS said...

Well, then, explain to me what the "problem" is.

Gospace said...

Bad Lieutenant said...

If you lined them all up and shot them one by one (a consummation devoutly to be wished), 4 would laugh at and mock the 5th...then 3 would jeer the 4th...then 2 would razz the 3rd...then one would deride the other...then he would cry, weep, moan, and blame Other.


Probably very, very true. Shouldn't be, but is.

Gospace said...

Howard said...
The story about the drowning recruit and the laughing DI's was quite true. Several guys drowned during water survival training at the MCRD San Diego tank in the late 70's to the early 80's. Occasional training drowning still occurs.


For Special Forces, SEALS, and various other types, if someone doesn't occasionally die, the training isn't hard or realistic enough. But it shouldn't occur during basic swim checks in boot camp.

I do remember quite clearly one member of my recruit company passing his swim test. He was struggling, and the instructor held out the pole. As he grabbed for it, the pole got pulled away. The instructor did it again- and again and again, until the recruit was at the other side of the pool and had "passed" his swim check. Really, everyone in the Navy should really know how to swim. Reality is, if the ship goes down in the North Atlantic in January and there's no one around to pluck you out- all the swimming skills in the world aren't going to help you.

BTW, the recruit was from Chicago inner city. Most inner city residents really can't swim, regardless of race, color, or creed.

Jonathan Graehl said...

#1 (honest + smart) is preferable to #2 (honest + not-smart) which is preferable to #3 (smart + not-honest)
your headlining tut-tutter is a #3 calling out #2s
we need fewer #3s

Bad Lieutenant said...

Jonathan, you're so right. There is this thinking among some that the only thing you need to be is smart. Being good, is for suckers. If you're smart you must be good. Good is what smart people like. The dumb are the lawful prey of the smart.

I would prefer to not live in that world.