February 3, 2017

The Daily Mail and the New York Post report fake news on Neil Gorsuch.

They take a high-school yearbook blurb for fact, and the "fact" is that Gorsuch founded a club called "Fascism Forever."

That's either really embarrassing or outright evil. Either they don't have the common sense to detect a possible joke and they don't have the professionalism to check a fact before publishing OR they actively chose to get the rumor out there festering in the public mind and they knew they'd probably have to update and withdraw the assertion later.

242 comments:

1 – 200 of 242   Newer›   Newest»
mccullough said...

Too good to check

YoungHegelian said...

Oh, like a "Fascism Forever" club would have ever flown at Georgetown Prep! How about mentioning that Sidwell Friends, the toney lefty private school where all the liberals send their kids (e.g. the Obama girls) would routinely sponsor students to go cut sugarcane in Cuba with a Venceremos Brigade? Yeah, there's some nutjobbery at high-end DC private schools, but it ain't got nuthin' to do with merit badges in racial hygiene.

Now, if Gorsuch had started a Liberation Theology study group, especially with a name like "El Pueblo Unido", the Jebbies would have petitioned the Pope for canonization of that strapping young lad who was sure to be going places.

Nonapod said...

Update: Gorsuch’s high school confirms what should have been obvious to everyone: that no such club ever existed and that the yearbook blurb was tongue-in-cheek.

lol

traditionalguy said...

The mental breakdowns seems unending from liberals going cold turkey off their psyops Drugs of the Days of the Obama/Hillary wine and roses.

Fernandinande said...

E. Volokh says he's friends with Gorsuch -

"Liberal UC Berkeley law professor Dan Farber on Neil Gorsuch"

Guildofcannonballs said...

The child Charles Foster Kane character runs around in the background saying "unions forever" FYI.

Lyle said...

Of course they're trying to persuade folks in their way. Orwellian stuff.

zipity said...

Digging the hole deeper every day. The LameStream Media© and the Liberal Left have lost their collective minds.

This is how you got Donald Trump. This is how you will get 8 YEARS of Donald Trump.

Keep up the good work.

Dave D said...

Is it fake news that Soros was a Nazi in his youth? If so, then it is apparent that, were this true about Gorsuch, reformed Nazi's that turn into liberals are OK, but not those that turn into conservatives.....

David Begley said...

As a Jesuit high school alum, I totally understand. And I believed the fake news story!

1. Yes, yearbook editors can be jokesters.

2. Yearbook people duped the faculty supervisor.

3. Yes, Gorsuch probably did privately push back against liberal faculty.

Big Mike said...

That's either really embarrassing or outright evil.

You were right the second time.

traditionalguy said...

Maybe he just wanted to honor the History of brave German soldiers...like a Confederate Flag Club in Mississippi. A lot of brave men died at Shiloh and Stalingrad.

Wait, wait, a fake? That good a narrative cannot be a fake. It is National Enquirer grade good junk.

great Unknown said...

You covered it, Professor (ret.).

The New York Post is embarrassing, The New York Daily News is evil and actually fascistic.

Big Mike said...

@Dave D, what makes you think George Soros ever turned into a liberal?

rhhardin said...

It might have been a jackstraws club. Piling sticks.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but facebook will never hurt me.

rhhardin said...

The fascism club was wiped out by the rifle club.

Paul Snively said...

Dr. Althouse: That's either really embarrassing or outright evil.

Embrace the healing power of "and."

robother said...

Editors of high school yearbooks go on to become editors of major city newspapers. But their Kool Kid politics never change.

AprilApple said...

Leftwing ISIS bee-leeves!

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The National Review is publishing fake news as regards the New York Post. They did not report the club was real, just that it was a yearbook claim to tweak liberals at his elite high school.

The truth of who wrote the yearbook quip has not been established. Interesting that it can be read both ways, Gorsuch tweaking his fellow students and the yearbook editors tweaking Gorsuch.

readering said...

It's what was put down in his yearbook. One story being put out is that it was inserted by an editor. I'd like to know if that happened because that would be evil. Otherwise a joke does tell something about oneself.

buwaya said...

Dont know if Guild was joking but - Charles Foster Kane as a child was yelling "The Union Forever" while playing soldier.
The sort of thing, I guess, that a 19th century little boy would yell under the circumstances.

That is a line out of "The Battle Cry of Freedom".

I taught my daughter, at least, to sing that. She can sing, the rest of us are duds. She also did a mean "Clementine" and would bring down the house with "La Cucaracha".

mockturtle said...

Someone should interview these protesters and other leftist malcontents and ask them to define 'fascist'. It would make a good Watters' World topic.

Amadeus 48 said...

I've pretty much given up on getting a straight story out of any news source. I have to read many and then try to figure out what is really going on. We get spoon fed canned stories to support a narrative.
I am sure this was always true, but seems more obvvious now.

buwaya said...

I had a club, the
"Anastas Mikoyan Fan Club" in college.
To tweak the reds. Very serious fellows, Maoists.

steve uhr said...

If it is a joke and no such club existed, fine. But it is not Fake News to report that a blurb THAT HE WROTE says that he was involved with such a group. May not be important but not fake.

rhhardin said...

Alexandra Petri, covering it, adds

Riefenstahl Film Club
Wagner Listeners Club
German Club
and more

YoungHegelian said...

A Jesuit Joke:

A Franciscan wrote the Vatican to ask for permission to smoke a cigarette while saying the Divine Office. He was told "Certainly not!".

A Jesuit wrote the Vatican to ask for permission to say the Divine Office while smoking a cigarette. He was commended for his zeal.

rhhardin said...

I don't see any blame correctly falling on the yearbook. The guy was a straight arrow free market of ideas guy and they simply printed the opposite as a joke everybody would recognize.

AReasonableMan said...

So his fellow students thought he was a fascist?

Drago said...

steve uhr: "If it is a joke and no such club existed, fine. But it is not Fake News to report that a blurb THAT HE WROTE says that he was involved with such a group. May not be important but not fake"

LOL

"...he was involved with such a group."

What "group"?

Oh yeah, the fictional one.

Next lefty fallback position: Well, gee, okay, the group never existed. But we are convinced that Gorsuch actually believes some stuff so "FAKE BUT ACCURATE".

That one never gets old for the left.

It is truly amazing how the Trump campaign and administration has fully and clearly exposed the left for what it has always been for all to see.

Glorious.



rhhardin said...

My high school yearbook had the Latin teacher with his hands in the air being taken hostage by the rifle club.

Drago said...

AReasonableMan: "So his fellow students thought he was a fascist?"

#FutureCampusDiversityOfficers

traditionalguy said...

The Belichick Asshole Club meets at about 9:30 Sunday Night to announce that it has gone out of business.

Drago said...

Next Fallback position for the lefties: COINTELPRO planted the stories to make the left look bad!!!

buwaya said...

A "Fascism Forever" club would be interesting.
The discussions would be fascinating, as, taken seriously, it dives right into the meat of the entire subject of political science, political economy, political and economic history, "social justice", and etc.
Anyone who would actually, truly study fascism, that protean, reactive mess, will have a useful education in everything respecting public affairs.

Consider that one would have to start with, perhaps, "Rerum Novarum".

mockturtle said...

Ye gods and little catfishes! Are they going to go through every Trump appointee's school yearbook for 'damning evidence' now? Has grasping at straws evolved to this extreme?

The sheer desperation of the left will be their eventual undoing and they will lose even those sympathetic to their cause.

Drago said...

Every lefty: The story isn't going our way (Again!), lets change the subject to conservative media!! Perhaps throw in a Koch brothers reference and maybe dredge Cheney back up! Stat!

Drago said...

Robert "lets have a coup" Reich now claiming it was paramilitary right wingers protesting Milo!

On CNN, naturally.

LOL

How did Trump get those paramilitary types into the CNN newsroom to plant #FakeNews "Fascist Forever" stories?!

#WeNeedToFindOutTheREALTruth

WillySunday said...

Fake news, so much of it. Kellyann Conway and her Bowling Green massacre another example.

DanTheMan said...

>>they actively chose to get the rumor out there festering in the public mind and they knew they'd probably have to update and withdraw the assertion later.

Of course. Buzzfeed set the bar, now the NYT is adjusting down to meet it.

YoungHegelian said...

Well, I tried to organize a Lysenkoist Club for my high school Biology class, but we all nearly to starved to death!

Kristian Holvoet said...

Funny how the benefit of a doubt / acting out of caution / the accusation is too serious always seem to hurt one side an protect the other.

And people wonder why the media is held in such low esteem.

Marc Puckett said...

I too believed the DM (tsk, tsk, I know) early yesterday or whenever it was-- adolescents will be adolescents, after all, even at forty grand a year or whatever it was-- until I checked the news later on in the morning and failed to see headlines screaming about the OPENLY FASCIST GORSUCH. At that point I figured out the story had to have been nonsense.

Drago said...

YoungHegelian: "Well, I tried to organize a Lysenkoist Club for my high school Biology class, but we all nearly to starved to death!"

That's not funny!!

#SnowflakeLefties

Drago said...

You can't blame the lefties like ARM, Once, Steve Uhr and some "lifelong republicans" for being sucked into this latest in an avalanche of lefty FakeNews.

After all, they already believe that everyone starting from Menshevik and to the right is a fascist, which makes them easy dupes.

Still, you'd think at this point they'd catch on after so many examples.

And you would be wrong.

traditionalguy said...

Don't talk about our Kellyann. So what she remembered the two Iraqi "refugees" planted in Bowling Green by Obama who were accidentally exposed to be a team of trained IED Bombers who had personally blown up many USA soldiers in Iraq. They had been merged in with real refugees and brought to Kentucky as if innocent men. They were caught just in time before their massacres began, so there were no massacres.

buwaya said...

The fascinating point of Fascism was that it was to be a "third way" between the first and second "ways" of Liberal Capitalism and Socialism, and in fact included the elements of the "zero" way of ancient folkways and feudalism.
And that there is no actual school of fixed Fascist dogma, so one really has to try to understand every other "way" to figure out some sort of workable mean, as an empirical optimum, if any.
Its a good place to start an education.

AReasonableMan said...

So that pathetic lefty's comment disappeared but the gist of it was that Daily Mail and the other rag are Murdoch's publications. The 'lefty' media didn't pick up on the story.

Livermoron said...

When did KellyAnn become a news reporter?

Birkel said...

"AReasonableMan" knows the rules and is defying them.

Reasonable?

Matthew Sablan said...

Of course they do.

But, remember, "Fake News" needs to be retired because the right effectively co-opted it as a bludgeon to hit the left with.

AReasonableMan said...

Matthew Sablan said...
the right effectively co-opted it


Kellyanne Conway certainly has.

WillySunday said...

It's OK to be an advisor to the President and broadcast fake news? Maybe in the Trump administration.

Rick said...

The 'lefty' media didn't pick up on the story.

SCOTUS Nominee Gorsuch Started 'Fascism Forever' Club at Elite Prep School


Whoops.

chuck said...

I guess that's better than favorite saying "balome".

AReasonableMan said...

Yeah that's the mainstream media. Keep digging buddy.

Rick said...

Supreme Court nominee Gorsuch in his youth: “Fascism Forever”

Supreme Court nominee Gorsuch in his youth: “Fascism Forever”

Eek!

Rick said...


oops

AReasonableMan said...

Can I quote StormFront as an example of right wing media now?

Freder Frederson said...

I want to hear more about the Bowling Green Massacre.

Rick said...

Yikes

YoungHegelian said...

If I was Gorsuch I'd sit in the chair at my Senate confirmation hearings loudly humming the Horst Wessel Lied (NSFW) into the microphone. Just to fuck with 'em, ya know?

It's probably a good thing for everyone that I'm not Gorsuch.

Harold said...

Drago said...
Next Fallback position for the lefties: COINTELPRO planted the stories to make the left look bad!!!


Fallback position? They're already doing that in re the Berkeley riots! Blaminf the riots on false flag protesters planted there to descredit the left. There's not much more room for them to retreat.

Rick said...

Can I quote StormFront as an example of right wing media now?

Sure, so long as you criticize all future US News and Salon commentary as equivalent to Stormfront.

The Root

Here's one from the Root. U sure bro? Maybe calling them Stormfront is further than you're willing to go.

MaxedOutMama said...

Probably this fits under the "fake but accurate" category. Gorsuch was nominated by Trump, Trump is a fascist (thus justifying the impending military coup?), therefore Gorsuch is a supporter of fascism.

Ergo, this story might be a bit inaccurate on the details, but it is worth printing because it is true.

I am pretty sure that's EXACTLY how the editorial process worked here. It's the same as the Rolling Stones fiasco. That's how they think.

MikeR said...

I see that the New York Post has changed their story (without any indication that it is a correction): "Neil Gorsuch may not have started actual fascism club in high school"

wildswan said...

Lefty loonies have always united around the story told by The Leader even when the story changed several times. But now they have no leader. So they unite around telling bad stories about Donald Trump, their anti-leader. But it isn't working as well. Discipline is lost. Story clashes against story. Institutions like NYT, liberal universities lose credibility. Facebook hate circles create overwhelming fear and loathing, disabling members from rational opposition. Every protest in overrun by anarchists - unexpectedly.

Why can't the Dems come up with a leader? Because they deserted the workers. Because they ignored job loss. Because they regard the workers as yahoos and rubes. But without the faith that they assisting the workers, the Dems are nothing. They say they want a secular civil society but they are so unanchored that they can only really produce in anarchy and nihilism in practice. Pussy hats. A Nation of Islam supporter as leading DNC chair candidate. Free speech banned at Berkeley. Rumors published by The NYT, exposed, and new rumors published. Hollywood planning a coup (but, riven by jealousy is already planning two coups, one with Meryl Streep, one without as she is demanding too much). Obama planning a coup (but not if the weather is bad or he has to be in NYC or DC in winter or summer - cold or hot or rushed or competitive, forget it.) Hillary planning a coup (but not if she has to stop drinking).

buwaya said...

Can I quote "Stormfront"...?

Yes of course, as long as you link to them, treat them with respect, quote them fully, and engage their arguments.

That would be an interesting general exercise across the "gaps". If for instance Breitbart read "Jezebel" carefully, parsed out their arguments, and responded with substance in detail. And if Jezebel read Stacey McCain, for instance, and did likewise.

And one day the lion will lie down with the lamb.

Rick said...

International Business Times

AReasonableMan said...

You have now exhaustively demonstrated that no MSM outlet other than Murdoch's publications pushed this story?

I hear StormFront has a story.

"Did six million really die?"
"Was There Really A Holocaust?"

Why don't Jews vote Republican.

Freder Frederson said...

they actively chose to get the rumor out there festering in the public mind and they knew they'd probably have to update and withdraw the assertion later.

The only problem with this alternative is that the Daily Mail is a conservative publication that supports UKIP and Brexit and the Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch. They are hardly the vanguard of the left wing media.

Birkel said...

"AReasonableMan":

Are you really saying US News is not part of the MSM?
I have to note that you are full of shit.

buwaya said...

I understand that that sort of story is a staple of the Arab/Muslim press, especially of the Palestinians. And still, the US left is filled to the brim with Palestinian sympathisers, and loads of actual Arabs, and has been for decades.

Some inconvenient things are deliberately avoided it seems.

Michael K said...

"So his fellow students thought he was a fascist? "

Humorless scold weighs in.

YoungHegelian said...

@ARM,

Why don't Jews vote Republican

Stormfront is Republican?! Have you asked the Stormfronters about that? I'm sure they loath the Republican Party as a party in control of the rich & the Zionists (who are the big fans of Israel right now, ARM?).

And don't get me started on that bullshit myth that there's no systemic antisemitism on the Left, a salve for the guilty conscience of the Jewish Left. It was baked into the cake from the get-go.

Rick said...

Why don't Jews vote Republican.

Jews don't vote Republican because they value government employment. But that support will dwindle as the extent of the left's anti-Semitism becomes harder to rationalize away.

I hear StormFront has a story.

I'm not at all surprised you're familiar with Stormfront content. Do you tell people your subscription was a gift? Or do you use the Pete Townshend excuse.

buwaya said...

Its still a left fashion statement to wear the Palestinian-pattern keffiyeh as a scarf. You see them in SF and, I am told, Berkeley and UCLA quite regularly still.

Dave in Tucson said...

As ever with the left, "fake but accurate" is all they care about. They know "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on". And they are counting on it.

The lie has done its damage, and no half-hearted retraction will change that.

YoungHegelian said...

Here's what it's going to be for four years:

Every time a Trump administration official misspeaks, which people do in off the cuff situations, it'll be on 24x7, on A1 above the fold.

In the Obama administration, we had 55 states, in Austria the residents spoke Austrian, "corpsemen" served in our Armed Forces, but, really, who's to nitpick when all is so right with the world.

Just watch. It'll happen.

American Liberal Elite said...

Alternative facts.

mockturtle said...

Young Hegelian suggests: If I was Gorsuch I'd sit in the chair at my Senate confirmation hearings loudly humming the Horst Wessel Lied (NSFW) into the microphone. Just to fuck with 'em, ya know?

It's probably a good thing for everyone that I'm not Gorsuch.


Me, too! "You want fascist? I'll give you fascist!"

Unknown said...

My vote is for evil. Out republican leadership should practice their politics accordingly.

Unknown said...

It is evil, but it is also a really effective way to crap all over the product you are supposed to be selling, actual news.

BADuBois said...

Hey, the Narrative won't feed itself you know...

n.n said...

Fascism forever? Not so much. It's recycled periodically. Pro-Choice is forever!

eric said...

When the civil war comes, media will wash its hands and say it's not their fault.

However, they will say it's OK to punch a Nazi in the face while also calling most Republicans Nazis.

And they will also say fascists should be fought back against and calling Republicans fascists.

But, their unstated position is, they have no responsibility for their words.

eric said...

Blogger steve uhr said...
If it is a joke and no such club existed, fine. But it is not Fake News to report that a blurb THAT HE WROTE says that he was involved with such a group. May not be important but not fake.

2/3/17, 9:49 AM


Wherein Steve tells us he doesn't know what tongue in cheek means.

Drago said...

Have you heard? Right wing provocateurs infiltrated the Hillary campaign and kept her out of Wisconsin and physically tripped her on the way into her limo after giving her the flu.

All on Putins orders, naturally!

Qwinn said...

How the hell does ARM and company think they can get away with claiming that US News and Salon don't count as MSM leftist news sources?

AReasonableMan said...

Premiere right wing news web site starts a story that is amplified by right wing media owners premiere tabloid and it is the left's fault?

The Trump derp is deep on Althouse today.

damikesc said...

Ye gods and little catfishes! Are they going to go through every Trump appointee's school yearbook for 'damning evidence' now?

Press: "Obama's first Treasury Secretary underpaid his taxes after signing paperwork advising him of what he needs to be paid. That's nothing. MEANWHILE, this dude has a YEARBOOK blurb about a Fascism club! CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS!!!"

You'd think they'd have learned their lesson with the laughable "Romney beat up and shaved a gay kid in high school" nonsense from 2012.

When "Antifa" clubs get labeled as domestic terrorists --- which they are --- they will go apoplectic.

Robert "lets have a coup" Reich now claiming it was paramilitary right wingers protesting Milo!

Please tell me this is a joke.

Where would "paramilitary right wingers" hide out in BERKELEY?

I once started a "War is Great" club in high school and penned an op-ed in my high school paper about how anybody who didn't join my group supported slavery.

My club and op-ed writing career didn't last long.

Can I quote StormFront as an example of right wing media now?

Salon and Vice are now "unfair" representations of leftie media? What WOULD be a fair example of Leftie media?

Rick said...

For the latest in left-wing nuttery check this out:

Berkely Riot

“You think it’s a strategy by [Milo Yiannopoulos] or right-wingers?” asked host Don Lemon.

“I wouldn’t bet against it,” Reich said. “I saw these people. They all looked very– almost paramilitary. They were not from the campus. I don’t want to say factually, but I’ve heard there was some relationship here between these people and the right-wing movement that is affiliated with Breitbart News.”


No doubt ARM will be right along to tell us Robert Reich isn't "mainstream". Of course this is true if you look at the American polity as a whole. From that perspective essentially all of the elected and public / activist left is out of the mainstream.

Kristian Holvoet said...

"It's OK to be an advisor to the President and broadcast fake news? Maybe in the Trump administration."

Certainly is true for former advisor / cabinet members. At least for Robert 'The Cal-Berkley Riots were a Brietbart false flag!' Reich.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
For the latest in left-wing nuttery


Having lost the argument it is time to move on to other nonsense.

David Begley said...

At my Jesuit high school the class one year ahead of me had an informal group called the "Bouga Brothers." Members were listed in senior year profiles. Purpose of the Bouga Brothers? Charge money for under age keg parties. Hundreds of kids regularly attended. I kid you not.

Rick said...

Having lost the argument it is time to move on to other nonsense.

Rants the guy who still believes Loughner was motivated by violent conservative political rhetoric. But you're undefeated in your own mind, so you've got that going for you.

David Begley said...

Should clarify.

Senior year yearbook profiles would read: Joe Prep, Football, 1,2, 3, 4. Basketball 1,2. Latin Club, 1, 2. Bouga Brothers, 3,4.

AReasonableMan said...

Keep trying to change the topic. Loser.

Mediagirl said...

The Daily Mail does NOT belong to Murdoch. Never has.

AReasonableMan said...

Mediagirl said...
The Daily Mail does NOT belong to Murdoch.


But it is a premier right wing publication. Pro-brexit etc.

mockturtle said...

I'm sure the anarchists in the Seattle anti-Capitalist riots were 'right-wing paramilitary', too. Does anyone believe this crap?

Pianoman said...

If they're reduced to pulling stuff out of a HS yearbook, then it means they have no dirt on him. Confirmation should go smoothly.

It's like a variant on the Politician's Syllogism:

* We have to publish SOMETHING
* This is SOMETHING
* Therefore, we have to publish it.

Fernandinande said...

Salon: Supreme Court nominee Gorsuch in his youth: “Fascism Forever”
"This story has been retracted."

Rick said...

Keep trying to change the topic.

Adding topics. If we put several together the consistent theme of your inability to reason becomes even clearer. This way people aren't tempted to think it's just this one topic where you can't think straight.

Maybe you should go back for better talking points. Surely someone will game this out for you so you don't end up with Stormfront comparisons as your core argument.

Fabi said...

ARM whines about someone else changing the subject while he brought up Kellyanne Conway earlier in the thread! You really can't make this shit up. Lulz

Rick said...

"This story has been retracted."

The issue is not whether it was retracted but whether they reported it in the first place. Even the Daily Mail has since run another story admitting it was a joke.

Yancey Ward said...

"No doubt ARM will be right along to tell us Robert Reich isn't "mainstream"."

Well, of course he isn't mainstream....he is only four feet tall.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
Adding topics.


To the original claim that premiere right wing media created this story but its the left's fault?

Trying to bury your blatant idiocy would a more appropriate description.

Drago said...

Rumors are floating about that ARM's profile has been hacked by Milo affiliated right wing paramilitary posters in order to plant false postings which make ARM appear incoherent and unhinged.

Yancey Ward said...

Ok, Drago, I come clean- ARM is my sock puppet.

Rick said...

To the original claim that premiere right wing media created this story but its the left's fault?

Your original claim was:

The 'lefty' media didn't pick up on the story.

But I'm not surprised you can't even remember your own arguments. If mine were that obviously wrong I'd "forget" them also.

Kyzernick said...

@ ARM 11:35AM

Wait, wait - you think you won that argument?

Which one of the 57 states are you from?

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
Your original claim was


This was a weak effort at a sophistic diversion. Clearly no MSM equivalent to the two right wing media outlets that created this story picked up on the story, as evidenced by your own exhaustive failure to come up with an example.

But this wasn't the point of the original post. It was and remains:

Premiere right wing news web site starts a story that is amplified by right wing media owners premiere tabloid and it is the left's fault?

The right created this story. This is just a fact. If some lesser left wing outlets picked up the story they could reasonably claim that they were simply bowing to the right wing media's vastly greater understanding of fascism and right wing court appointments.

Rick said...

But this wasn't the point of the original post

Actually it was. You can tell because the quote I noted came from [AReasonableMan said...2/3/17, 10:22 AM] and the one you're trying to turn it to is from [AReasonableMan said...2/3/17, 11:30 AM].

Now maybe you're just not so good with English so I'll spell it out clearly. "Original" means coming first in time and 10:22 is before 11:30. If you need any more tutoring services are $75 / hour.

But it seems more likely you realized your original claim is wrong and you're backtracking, but you just don't have the intellectual honesty to admit it. As a result even as you're strategically repositioning you're juvenilely claiming to have "won".

The right created this story.

The right didn't create the story, hype did. But of course this isn't the subject. It is interesting though that someone so concerned about not changing the subject keeps changing it. Why it's almost like that whole stream is a dodge.

AReasonableMan said...

The original post is Althouse's. Maybe you should read that at some point.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
The right didn't create the story


This is just a straight up lie.

Fabi said...

"...bowing to the right wing media's vastly greater understanding of fascism..."

If ARM didn't exist we'd have to create him!

mockturtle said...

Drago affirms: Rumors are floating about that ARM's profile has been hacked by Milo affiliated right wing paramilitary posters in order to plant false postings which make ARM appear incoherent and unhinged.

That explains a lot. ;-D

buwaya said...

"...bowing to the right wing media's vastly greater understanding of fascism..."

Sadly, this is just a single case of the "right wing media's" (such as it is) greater understanding of everything at all, or at least in comparison to the left wing media.

The difference in standards of information and education, on all matters with a bearing of public affairs, is simply astounding. This is one very significant reason for the inability to discuss anything in an honest and substantial manner.

This is not surprising when one understands the dreadful state of American universities, other than in strictly technical matters.

Michael K said...


Blogger AReasonableMan said...
Mediagirl said...
The Daily Mail does NOT belong to Murdoch.

But it is a premier right wing publication. Pro-brexit etc.


Please don't confuse ARM with facts. He/she is deeply into the leftist fantasy world where Hillary is president and TRump was electrocuted by a malfunctioning pool light at Mar a Lago during an underage teen girl party.

Gahrie said...

Senior year yearbook profiles would read: Joe Prep, Football, 1,2, 3, 4. Basketball 1,2. Latin Club, 1, 2. Bouga Brothers, 3,4.

In our yearbook it was the bowling team. We had no bowling team, it was referring to smoking a bowl of marijuana...as far as I know none f the teachers ever picked up on it.

Rick said...

The original post is Althouse's. Maybe you should read that at some point.

a) I didn't object to her comment but to yours.
b) Her comment makes no reference to left or right, only to irresponsible journalism. So this idea the left-right issue from your comment reflects anything about hers is absurd.

This is just a straight up lie.

You only think this because you're unable to envision anything outside the dichotomy of left-right. The DM is tabloidy, not right. You're so left you think anything not left is right. But the DM jumped on this prematurely to be the first reporting entity which they value since it drives traffic. If your evaluation methods were more reliable than "does this help the left" maybe you wouldn't step on your junk quite so often.

buwaya said...

And I don't mean to pile on ARM, the argument on who published what when is a bit trivial and rather technical-point-scoring for me.
Bigger deal is who cares and why.

bwebster said...

One of my best friends in high school was John Zecherle, who nevertheless mocked my religious faith (Mormon) incessantly. Our senior year (1970-71), for our high school yearbook, John put under his photo "Persecuting Mormons 1-4" among his school activities. Probably good for John that he's not being considered for the Supreme Court (which would be unusual anyway, since he went to med school and became a doctor).

I fully agree with Ann: this was either incredibly stupid/reckless or a deliberate smear.

AReasonableMan said...

More flailing attempts to weasel out of the fact that the Daily Mail is not a left wing publication but is in fact a right wing publication that supports UKIP and Brexit. The New York Post is also self-evidently a right wing mouthpiece.

Again, no MSM equivalent to the two right wing media outlets that created this story picked up on the story, as evidenced by your own exhaustive failure to come up with an example. Moreover the lesser left wing sites could not unreasonably have reasoned that if the mainstream right is making this claim about one of their own then it is most likely true.

Also again, premiere right wing news web site starts a story that is amplified by right wing media owners premiere tabloid and it is the left's fault? On what planet does this make sense?

AReasonableMan said...

buwaya said...
And I don't mean to pile on ARM,


To pile on your post would first have had to have a point, rather than pose some nebulous question.

Harold said...

Fake news alert. Just opened up my email. The subject line from The New Republic is: "Trump Promised White Supremacy. Now He'€™s Delivering It.

He promised that? Gee, I must have missed that particular promise. I don't even remember Democrats noting that during the campaign. Would have been kind of huge, don't you think?

Bay Area Guy said...

There's a Fascist under every bed!

Rick said...

Moreover the lesser left wing sites could not unreasonably have reasoned that if the mainstream right is making this claim about one of their own then it is most likely true.

Note ARM has now switched from saying it didn't happen to saying it's reasonable that it did happen.

I have to conclude his moniker is poorly founded.

buwaya said...

"To pile on your post would first have had to have a point, rather than pose some nebulous question."

Not nebulous, I think, but requiring a bit of explanation. A fact is a fact or not, but the reaction to a fact, or not-fact, tells a lot about else about those reacting. Now as it happens the fascist thing re Gorsuch was trending as a hot item in social media (my wife got it, several times; she has social media, I avoid it) and it was reposted in numerous left-media sites (see above for just a few). Why? because of course this was particularly interesting as a point of propaganda. Why does it count as a point of propaganda?

That requires more than a bit of explanation.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
ARM has now switched from saying it didn't happen to saying it's reasonable that it did happen.


Another lie. I said that the story originated in the premiere right wing MSM. No equivalent left wing media appear to bear any responsibility.

You came up with a bunch of minor sites none of which were the original source of the story, which was a premiere mainstream right wing publication.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

But it is a premier right wing publication. Pro-brexit etc.

Well, yes: If you dis the EU or its refugee policy, you are inevitably "far-right" in mainstream media parlance. I remember Mark Steyn on the late, murdered Pim Fortuyn some years back, writing about "legions of gay, pot-smoking sociology professors stomping in their screamingly camp jackboots all over Europe." Fortuyn was a leftist, but he opposed Muslim immigration to the Netherlands, and that gets you the "far-right" label. In fact, it's practically the only thing that does, apart from wanting to leave the EU.

I don't get the idea that you are automatically "far-right" for wanting nations to be national. My own view is that nations should be as national as reasonably possible. But the guiding principle of the EU's government is that any place should be as much as possible like any other place. Not that it's gotten through to the refugees, who have their preferred destinations (the UK, the Scandinavian countries), and are willing to risk their lives to get out of, e.g., France. You'd think that in France they'd be safe enough from persecution, but nooooo. Maybe they just can't wrap their tongues round the language. I know I can't.

Rick said...

I said that the story originated in the premiere right wing MSM.

This is a lie as already proven. You claimed "the 'lefty' media didn't pick up on the story." Everyone always knew the DM was the source. When proven wrong you backtracked but somehow are still claiming you were right all along. Also the DM isn't a premiere right wing site, it's a tabloid aggregator of no particular stature.

It's also apropos you mischaracterized Althouse's comment while claiming I should read it. Did you go back and read it? Are you abandoning your claim she initiated the left-right issue in her comment? I'm just curious because you say so many things that are proven false and you move on hoping no one will notice.

Hagar said...

The Daily Mail website seems to be sort of a project by highschool students rushed to post between classes.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
You claimed "the 'lefty' media didn't pick up on the story."


Another weak debating trick. If you include all left media then some weakly trafficked sites did pick it up but if you include equivalent premiere MSM media then no they didn't. Notably, and really the only point of interest, it was a right wing site that started the story and another major right wing site that amplified it.

If we include StormFront as part of the right wing media then the right wing media is very racist. I, for one do not think this is completely fair, obviously one should attempt to compare apples to apples.

John said...

RH Hardin,

What would be wrong with a Wagner listeners club? I agree that the man was despicable. We should revile him.

Some of the music is great and we should enjoy it. (Really, it is much better than it sounds. To quote Mark train)

I also have a couple of hours of North Korean orchestral music. A very strange but pleasant sound that I cue up from time to time.

Please note that the official NoKo site says that I am not to download it. I did anyway, just to stick a finger in Kim Jong Il's eye.

So sue me.

John Henry

Rick said...

You didn't address your lie that Althouse's comment blamed the left-media for this.

AReasonableMan said...

Apparently you have conceded that everything else you said is nonsense.

Rusty said...

Since it is a meme propagated by the left I'll opine that it was meant to be evil. Otherwise why print it.

John said...

After the hullaballoo about 1984 the other day, I figured I should reread it. I've read it and all of Orwell's books many times over the years but it had been a 10-15 years.

It is free on Kindle Unlimited.

I'm about halfway through and one of the things I had not remembered about it was how Lazlovian it is in parts. As in Laslo Spatula. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing but it is.

The left would have us believe that it is about Trump.

What I am seeing is that it is about the progressives. De-balling the language since without language, one can't think. Blind rage in 2 minute and longer "hates". Violent demonstrations. Murder of anyone who does not think correctly. And more...

Like Glen Reynolds says, it's almost like they are using 1984 as an instruction manual.

John Henry

Michael said...

ARM is a Stormfront reader? Why am I not surprised. I myself read DailyKos but I am not sure that is the same thing.

Trumpit said...

Robert Reich believes the looters and rioters in Berkeley were Fascist Brownshirt (my words) types trying to trick the public in order to blame the left. He said he could not recognize one student among them.

Hitler may have been an apprentice after all once Trump destroys the world with nukes.

Rick said...

Apparently you have conceded that everything else you said is nonsense.

I've proven my comments repeatedly, your feeble efforts to claim you meant something different don't mean anything to anyone.

You didn't address your lie that Althouse's comment blamed the left-media for this.

WillySunday said...

Interesting that Althouse pointed to (without coming out and saying so) two right wing publications that published fake news, so the regular suspects use the thread to distract from that fact.

samsondale said...

I check NYP every morning (for the hockey scores) and saw this story. This morning it said that he founded the club. They may have changed the story as the day progressed. The Daily Mail definitely claimed that yesterday.

Big Mike said...

Robert Reich believes the looters and rioters in Berkeley were Fascist Brownshirt (my words) types trying to trick the public in order to blame the left.

Robert Reich says a lot of delusional things.

He said he could not recognize one student among them.

As though he would recognize on sight all 38,000 Berkeley students?

However no one is claiming that the Fascist Brownshirt types (your words) were composed solely of Berkeley students. What is claimed is that they represent you and your fellow left wingers who are resorting to violence to claim what they could not win at the ballot box.

Ron said...

Nobody with half a brain reads the Mail or Post. Hopefully.

Owen said...

Buwaya: excellent points above on the nature of fascism as a "negative space" defined in part by what it isn't, and thus a good topic with which to explore the whole landscape of political structures and movements.

I find it hard to believe that any responsible journalist would think a high school yearbook could provide reliable evidence of anything. It might offer a potential lead or germ to a story but the interviews and corroboration can't be shirked, especially for such an obviously inflammatory claim. Whether Left, Right, or Center, this was crap journalism.

O tempora, o mores!

John said...

Tell me this is not one of Lazlo's fantasies:


"It was three years ago. It was on a dark evening, in a narrow side-street near one of the big railway stations. She was standing near a doorway in the wall, under a street lamp that hardly gave any light. She had a young face, painted very thick. It was really the paint that appealed to me, the whiteness of it, like a mask, and the bright red lips. Party women never paint their faces. There was nobody else in the street, and no telescreens. She said two dollars. I—"

David said...

"Robert Reich believes the looters and rioters in Berkeley were Fascist Brownshirt (my words) types trying to trick the public in order to blame the left.'

Sometimes the real Nazis blamed others. Sometimes they proudly were open about the actions.

So that means Reich could be a real nazi, correct?

Jupiter said...

AReasonableMan said...
"So his fellow students thought he was a fascist?"

Care to know what your fellow commenters think you are, ARM?

YoungHegelian said...

@John,

Tell me this is not one of Lazlo's fantasies:.....

Party women never paint their faces. There was nobody else in the street, and no telescreens. She said two dollars. I—"


Dear Daily Worker,

Comrades, I never thought that this would happen to me, but...

Trumpit said...

David,

You went straight into the gutter by suggesting Reich is a fascist. So, my response to you is:

Go back to sucking your thumb.

Trumpit

mockturtle said...

You went straight into the gutter by suggesting Reich is a fascist.

Well, if he's the Third Reich, then he probably is.

Trumpit said...

++++++++++++ Good one, Mockturtle.

buwaya said...

"You went straight into the gutter by suggesting Reich is a fascist"

Reich was the fellow who was, when he had an official position, pushing industrial policy and a MITI-like economic management department of the FedGov.
Thats straight out of the "third-way" playbook of the Fascist regimes. Japan latched on to this economic management idea in the 1930's and ran with it, even into the postwar period. Which, somehow, appealed to Reich.

So, there is more than one "Connection" here.
ref the BBC-James Burke "Connections" TV series.

walter said...

"Fascists Forever" Sounds like a bit out of The Simpsons.

walter said...

Yeah..Reich is simply a failed liberal thinker..redundant, I know.

Rick said...

Trumpit said...
David,

You went straight into the gutter by suggesting Reich is a fascist. So, my response to you is:

Go back to sucking your thumb.


Note that Reich can blame Breitbart / the right for fascist riots without Trumpit's objection but if anyone treats him like he treats others Trumpit is offended.

People accidentally reveal so much about themselves.

AReasonableMan said...

Jupiter said...
Care to know what your fellow commenters think you are, ARM?


The worst of the worst, a moderate?

Trumpit said...

Buwaya,

You're all thumbs. I love idioms.

Please educate yourself about Reich by reading his latest book: Saving Capitalism. That is quite a title for even a closet Fascist.

Matthew Sablan said...

Wait -- people really think that the right somehow had enough organization to fake an anti-Milo riot?

... Like, really-really?

At some point, can the left just suck it up and accept that some people in their ranks are terrible people? I'm left on a lot of issues, especially social issues. But, I'm not voting for a party that idly stands by while their side silences the opposition with violence.

Where is the constant stream of people asking the left to denounce these groups like you see on the right?

Where is the coordinated media storm of "the dark underbelly" and the like?

We just saw that the media thinks burning things is OK if it is meant to intimidate the right; that punching "fascists" or "white supremacists" is fine, and low and behold, they now lie about the Supreme Justice nominee being fascist.

The media needs to clean house, as does the left.

John said...

Trumpit,

The Fascists were called blackshirts, not brownshirts. Black is the color of choice for many of the protesters these days and they don't seem to recognize the irony.

The brownshirts were German National Socialists. Another strain of socialism but similar to the Fascists and National Progressive Party. More bloodthirsty but similar ideologies.

Just for good luck, here's a picture of brownshirts arresting a filmmaker:

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120928123202-nakoula-basseley-nakoula-1-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

John Henry

AReasonableMan said...

WillySunday said...
Interesting that Althouse pointed to (without coming out and saying so) two right wing publications that published fake news, so the regular suspects use the thread to distract from that fact.


Yes it is truly sad, but still only a glimpse of how completely unhinged the right wing trolls can get here. Stay a while, you will find many more opportunities to point out the self-evident to these trolls.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
I've proven my comments


Sure you did. Loser.

John said...

Trumpit,

Could you explain what you think the word "fascism" means?

As Orwell said in the late 40's, it has become an epithet used to mean someone whose politics you do not like.

That seems pretty much how you are using it.

If you are interested in using the word correctly, download and read Mussolini's short book/long pamphlet "The Doctrine of Fascism" in which he lays out just what it is (a form of socialism) for the lay person like yourself.

It is a specific ideology and Robert Reich's views are very much in line with Fascism.

John Henry

buwaya said...

"Please educate yourself about Reich"

I am very familiar with Reich. He has changed his spots many times over the years, eventually becoming simply incoherent, as he is today.

His current book pretty much agrees with Trump, and with many of the right-wing critics of the modern system. And, for that matter, with many others of the "third way" from a hundred years ago. See "Rerum Novarum", and for that matter the Fascists.

But he is, somehow, their enemy, as required by what whimsical wisp we will never know.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
You didn't address your lie that Althouse's comment blamed the left-media for this.


Another, now hysterical, lie. Point to where I personally said this or retract.

Rick said...

AReasonableMan said...
Rick said...
You didn't address your lie that Althouse's comment blamed the left-media for this.

Another, now hysterical, lie. Point to where I called Althouse a liar or retract.


Your reading comprehension sucks too huh? I didn't say you called her a liar, I said you lied about the content of her comment. You really suck at this.

[Care to know what your fellow commenters think you are, ARM?]

The worst of the worst, a moderate?


How is it the left wing loons all think they're moderate?

buwaya said...

"It is a specific ideology"

Ah, well, not quite. Its more of a conglomerate of whatever seemed prudent or politically desirable at the time, and mutated between national iterations and between periods. Fascism is protean, it has many forms.

Paul McKaskle said...

A college classmate in the yearbook listed himself as a member of Sigma Epsilon Chi. Horrors!

Matthew Sablan said...

“I wouldn’t bet against it,” Reich said. “I saw these people. They all looked very– almost paramilitary. They were not from the campus. I don’t want to say factually, but I’ve heard there was some relationship here between these people and the right-wing movement that is affiliated with Breitbart News.”

... Well, I guess Reich should get right on with telling us about PizzaGate next, right?

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
I said you lied about the content of her comment


Point to where I said this or retract.

Rick said...

AReasonableMan said...
The original post is Althouse's. Maybe you should read that at some point.

2/3/17, 12:23 PM


Right here. You claimed Althouse's post could be summarized as claiming the left-media was responsible for airing the story as seen here:

AReasonableMan said...
Premiere right wing news web site starts a story that is amplified by right wing media owners premiere tabloid and it is the left's fault?

The Trump derp is deep on Althouse today.

2/3/17, 11:30 AM


For the record Althouse's post makes no mention of left or right. See how defending one stupid thing led you to say many other stupid things? It would have been better to just stop digging.

But I understand you need me to keep track of your arguments. Your hold on logic is tenuous at best and you've been flailing all morning. That combination is tough.

Rick said...

More left wing nuttery:

Trump Support Assaulted

Here's my favorite part of the article.

The victim proceeded to yell expletives and make obscene gestures with both hands as the attackers drove away.

The attackers stopped their car to punch him, he was doing nothing but walking. But the paper adds this so left wingers can conclude both parties were at fault.

Quaestor said...

How is it the left wing loons all think they're moderate?

ARM is moderately Left because he's content to insult one's intelligence rather than sucker punch a conservative in the street. Not actively seeking to kill the unorthodox (the Left has adopted the infidel and jihad concepts from its Muslim allies, in case you haven't noticed) qualifies as moderate Leftism.

AReasonableMan said...

So I was suspicious that you were are moron, thank you for confirming.

Obviously, to non-morons, I was referring to the nutty responses to her post. At no point do I ascribe this view to Althouse personally, which would be obvious to non-morons.

This is the problem with being a tiny little pedant such as yourself. You twist yourself into knots misreading other people's posts, which you have done repeatedly in this thread.

Sad.

Rick said...

You twist yourself into knots misreading other people's posts, which you have done repeatedly in this thread.

No, you said multiple things and when confronted with evidence one of them was wrong you chose to defend the other, amusingly all while whining about debating tricks. The rest is your own flailing and dishonesty. It's nobody's fault but yours that you can't keep your own ideas straight. Maybe if you thought before attacking you wouldn't say so much stupid shit.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
No, you said multiple things


All reasonably consistent, to anyone who is not a pedantic moron.

Fabi said...

Is this a new phase of ARM's stages of grief -- calling people losers and morons? I don't remember him doing much of that before -- except a few very notable meltdowns.

roesch/voltaire said...

They could have checked Snopes.com to discover there was no massacre in Bowling Green or any fascism forever club. Too many people are adopting the tweet mentality of Trump and saying and believing anything just because it was posted or published somewhere.

The Cracker Emcee said...

Easy, folks. ARM is on the verge of another nervous breakdown.

Achilles said...

ARM, I almost feel bad for you. It takes a special level of stupid to ignore the drubbing you are taking on this thread.

WillySunday said...

Well, to get back to the most important fact of the this blogpost, the two publications mentioned by Althouse are rightist publications.

All attempts to obfuscate this fact by Rick have failed.

Achilles said...

Blogger AReasonableMan said...
Jupiter said...
Care to know what your fellow commenters think you are, ARM?

"The worst of the worst, a moderate?"

That is one of the most self unaware things I have ever seen posted in a comment.

Jon Ericson said...

Clippy for Plaster-head

Rick said...

WillySunday said...
Well, to get back to the most important fact of the this blogpost, the two publications mentioned by Althouse are rightist publications.

All attempts to obfuscate this fact by Rick have failed.


This is in fact not the issue.

The original claim:

The 'lefty' media didn't pick up on the story.

Nor is it the "most important fact", which is that the media sucks.

AReasonableMan said...

WillySunday said...
Well, to get back to the most important fact of the this blogpost, the two publications mentioned by Althouse are rightist publications.

All attempts to obfuscate this fact by Rick have failed.


I think you may be crediting Rick with too much cunning here. His responses do not rise above the level of simple medullary reflexes.

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
Nor is it the "most important fact"


Who appointed you arbiter? You are a ridiculous pedant.

Michael K said...

OMG! An ARM Thread !

Bye,

WillySunday said...

ARM, you may be right.

richard mcenroe said...

OR they actively chose to get the rumor out there festering in the public mind and they knew they'd probably have to update and withdraw the assertion later.

That's the new model of American journalism.

Rick said...

AReasonableMan said...
Rick said...
Nor is it the "most important fact"

Who appointed you arbiter?


I'm inviting others to consider whether I'm right or not. This is how discussions work.

Revealingly this is a quote from someone else who you didn't admonish. You're showing the same statement is acceptable from your allies but justify an attack on anyone else. No doubt applying double standards was critical to your self-identification as a moderate.

Sebastian said...

"Saving Capitalism" Lemme guess. Reich argues that capitalism can only be "saved" if "capitalists" adopt his progressive ideas. Amiright?

Hagar said...

Well, The Daily Mail and The New York Post are slighly to the right of, say, The Independent, and that may of course qualify as "right-wing" in Old Marblehead's world.

WillySunday said...

Hey Rick, the most important fact is that they are rightist publications and people like you who try to distract from that fact by pedantic buffoonery just wants to make me drive that fact home and repeat it several times. It's obvious you were trying desperatly to distract from that fact, or you are just a pedantic buffoon.

AReasonableMan said...

Let's keep in mind Rick's 'credibility' here.

Rick said...
The right didn't create the story

WillySunday said...

Rick, still at it, lol. How long can he keep it up?

Jon Ericson said...

A couple of weeks ago somebody asked me about that Russian dossier "scandal", and what was it all about.

I replied that it claimed President Trump hired a couple of hookers to piss on a bed that Obama had slept on. (right)

This somebody asked: What if it's true?



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