November 5, 2016

"Lying's the most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off..."



That's Natalie Portman in a 2004 movie (directed by Mike Nichols) called "Closer." The Portman character is responding to the prompt "Tell me something true." The entire response is: "Lying's the most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off — but it's better if you do." But it's better if you leave off the last phrase. It's already implied and therefore verbose, but the entire movie was probably unnecessary.

I'm seeing that as a consequence of looking up the word "Closer" after reading this NYT headline, "The Closer: Michelle Obama." Obviously, the NYT means to flatter if not fawn over Michelle Obama, but calling her "The Closer" had a negative edge that I wanted to try to figure out. From the article:
Mr. Obama’s political advisers have long regarded his wife as a potent weapon. Their nickname for her in his 2008 campaign was “the closer.” Back then, with Mr. Obama engaged in a bitter Democratic primary against Mrs. Clinton, his aides noticed that Mrs. Obama’s so-called conversion rate — the ratio of voters who registered or signed up to volunteer or otherwise help the campaign after she made an appeal — was exceptionally high.
So she was the closer against Clinton, and maybe now she can be the closer for Clinton.

I wanted to get a feeling for "the closer" as slang, so I went to Urban Dictionary. A favorite definition is someone who can advance a relationship to sexual intercourse, but it's also recognized as a sales term: "someone that can close the sale. Sell anything to anybody at anytime."

See? That's not flattering to Hillary Clinton. Send in "the closer" because we've got a bad product and we need to sell it.

But one of the definitions is "An amazing movie" — the movie in the clip, above. And that line about lying — it's how girls have fun — seemed so apt for those of us immersed in the presidential campaign. We must be having so much fun.

The top Urban Dictionary definition for "closer" isn't apt at all. It's not even using "closer" as a noun. It's the adjective "closer" in the title of the Nine Inch Nails song. Great song, great video. If there's any possible association to Hillary Clinton, I don't want to know about it.

So let's just back away and watch Alec Baldwin deliver his "always be closing" speech:



You sons of bitches! Get mad!! You know what it takes to sell real estate? It takes brass balls to sell real estate.

98 comments:

320Busdriver said...

Coffee is for closers

Achilles said...

One thing that is obvious about all of these political hacks and the lickspittle media that prop them up is they think way too much of themselves. There are millions of mothers and fathers in this country who have worked harder and some more to help their kids and other people than these politicians and hacks.

All Michelle Obama has done all her life is take jobs that are created to pay her and condescend to people who are better than her. This is the ultimate cult of personality.

Will said...

Michelle Obama must absolutely hate herself. She has become everything she once railed against.

Debasing her image as a good mom and someone trying to do the right thing just to get a few votes for someone I am sure she personally reviles?

I am sure the Obamas never thought through the implications of having Bill Clinton speak for them in 2012.

To have to do so now, when the daily releases form Wikileaks confirm America's worst suspicions about Hillary's (lack of) char ted? Devastating! And yet of they do not, there goes their Legacy. Devastating!

In fact Michelle Obama hasn't been seen since sticking her neck out a day or two before it became clear the FBI is still doing criminal investigations of Hillary and the Clinton Foundation.

No sane American thinks Hillary Clinton is a "beacon for our girls and young people." Not even Michelle.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Ach,

You're describing quite an uppity gal.

You can go ahead and say it.


Sydney said...

320Busdriver- That's what I was going to post!

rhhardin said...

The title is familiar, and checking I see I bought it. Natalie Portman and Julia Roberts.

It's in my not yet looked at pile though, accounting for why I don't remember it.

I have other reasons for not remembering those, but that's one. Watching old ones again is interesting mostly when you don't remember much of them.

It was probably a "you may also be interested in" recommendation, and Julia Roberts is nice.

Will Cate said...

"The Closer" does have a negative edge. I wonder if they even realize why.

If somebody is putting the hard-sell to you for a big-ticket item (car, time-share, etc.) and you appear to have cold feet, the dealer/agency will often bring out "the closer" who's job it is to close the deal. This can involve berating or brow-beating the would-be buyer into accepting the deal, or some cut-rate version of it.

Big-time fail.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

BTW,

There is a possibility that Jay's lyrics aren't easily interpreted as they seem.

I heard him on Terry Gross' show where he claimed that his song about a bitch not being a problem wasn't about a woman.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

I found a link:

http://www.npr.org/2010/11/16/131334322/the-fresh-air-interview-jay-z-decoded

tcrosse said...

The Closer is also the pitcher they bring into the ball game when the opening pitcher can't put it away.

james said...

I thought the closer was the pitcher you brought in when you were leading, to make sure the other team didn't score any runs in the last few innings--somebody you could rely on to get the outs. That doesn't seem to have negative connotations.

320Busdriver said...

"There is a possibility that Jay's lyrics aren't easily interpreted as they seem."

As if any adult would care

Curious George said...

I think there is a decent chance that Michelle Obama has brass balls...well balls anyway.

chickelit said...

It's too bad about David Mamet's dislike of Donald Trump. I'd hoped for better.

Freeman Hunt said...

I saw that movie in the theater. The takeaway: Life is sad and hard if you have no integrity. I'm not sure that's what the filmmakers were going for though.

Kate said...

Jack Lemmon's character is called "Shelly". He's not the closer, but when Pacino needs a lying suck-up to help him seal the deal, Shelly's there for him.

And Shelley's #withher.

chickelit said...

My brass balls: link

They're copper, actually. And that's a Palladian print in the background.

Quaestor said...

What kind of balls would Moochell need to close on this house? Brass? Krupp steel?

How about this? Plutonium?

Achilles said...

Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
Ach,

You're describing quite an uppity gal.

You can go ahead and say it.


Hillary is worse. The Bushes are all worse. Paul Ryan and his little catholic hypocrite family living in their walled compound while the rest of us deal with the consequences of his wish for open borders are worse. I have been equal opportunity.

If this is Meade or Althouse or some other family member using root server access to pretend to be a leftist to add a little diversity to this blog I can do it better for you without the need to be a douchebag and calling people racist.

chickelit said...

If this is Meade or Althouse or some other family member using root server access to pretend to be a leftist to add a little diversity to this blog I can do it better for you without the need to be a douchebag and calling people racist.

Althouse has always been honest about not letting her blog devolve into a partisan clubhouse. If that means injecting opposing views for the sake of having opposing views present -- people have waited years for that smoking gun.

Ann Althouse said...

"The title is familiar, and checking I see I bought it. Natalie Portman and Julia Roberts. It's in my not yet looked at pile though, accounting for why I don't remember it."

The one time I bring up a romcom you don't know it. Get on it.

mockturtle said...

Haven't seen the movie. Don't want to. But this 'girls just want to have fun' mentality is getting old. If grrrrrls aren't accountable for their actions, they can hardly be expected to be taken seriously.

This goes for sexual behavior as well as political corruption. If a girl gets drunk at a fraternity party and ends up in someone's bed with evidence of sexual activity that she doesn't remember, it's her own bloody fault. Maybe a 'gentleman' wouldn't have taken advantage but she is obviously no 'lady', either.

Ann Althouse said...

"If somebody is putting the hard-sell to you for a big-ticket item (car, time-share, etc.) and you appear to have cold feet, the dealer/agency will often bring out "the closer" who's job it is to close the deal."

But they shouldn't be telling YOU that they're bringing in the closer. That's the problem with the NYT headline (if the NYT is for Hillary, and if the NYT isn't for Hillary...).

EDH said...

It's the adjective "closer" in the title of the Nine Inch Nails song. Great song, great video. If there's any possible association to Hillary Clinton, I don't want to know about it.

Hell, the lyrics read like a Clinton paean to the press and their supporters throughout the years!


You let me violate you
You let me desecrate you
You let me penetrate you
You let me complicate you

Help me, I broke apart my insides
Help me, I've got no soul to sell
Help me, the only thing that works for me
Help me get away from myself

I want to fuck you like an animal
I want to feel you from the inside
I want to fuck you like an animal
My whole existence is flawed
You get me closer to god

Ann Althouse said...

"I heard him on Terry Gross' show where he claimed that his song about a bitch not being a problem wasn't about a woman."

Yeah, the "bitch" in the song is a dog... a police dog that didn't show up for a search. That's what he wrote in his book.

shiloh said...

Karen McDougal, who had a 10 mo. affair with Trump 2006/2007 while married to Melania.

Karen's probably a pretty good liar also. And of course her former sugar daddy, Trump, is one of biggest pathological liars of all-time. Indeed, he may be the GOAT! I digress.

All the news that's fit to print.

NSFW, unless of course you work for Trump. He does get the hot women, but then what's the explanation for Melania? ok, don't want to be sexist.

Freeman Hunt said...

"The one time I bring up a romcom you don't know it. "

It's not really a romcom. More melodrama. I don't recall any laughs. "Look at how sad with the sad people!"

traditionalguy said...

Yes. The art of faking sincerity is what the LSAT cannot measure.

boycat said...

chickelit @11:33:

It's too bad about David Mamet's dislike of Donald Trump. I'd hoped for better.

Neocons seem among those most susceptible to NeverTrumpism.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

"The Closer" was also a tv show starring Kyra Sedgwick that aired on TNT from 2005 - 2012. It was about a female in head Detective who always "closes" the case. It was a good show.

Laslo Spatula said...

Tyler, The King of Closers, says:

I work at a Mercedes dealership, bitches: Tyler sells more cars than anybody, with all the fucking upgrades and the luxury interior, okay? Give Tyler ten minutes with you and you're either driving off in a sweet Mercedes or you're walking home ashamed and defeated, with loser-ass sweat-stains in the armpits of your loser-ass clothes...

You see, Tyler's got the Skill of making people feel like worthless loser pieces of worthless loser shit, unless they agree to agree with Tyler: it's a fucking Gift, and Tyler uses it like a switchblade in a knife-fight...

Tyler's Keys to Closing are Persistence, Never Letting the Truth Get in Your Way, Taking It When It's There and Talking About Yourself in the Third Person: THAT'S how I rock my shit...

It works with the Women, too. I see a girl at the club that I want, she's gonna come home with Tyler, or she is gonna go home alone on the bus and stare at her fat ass in the mirror, cry, and eat way too much ice cream. That's right: Tyler called your ass fat, and Tyler didn't want to fuck your fat ass anyway, you chunk of fat-ass worthless loser fat-ass shit...

Tyler gets the girl home, and Tyler knows we are going to do what Tyler wants to do. Fuck her in the ass? Of course, unless she's a worthless loser piece of worthless loser bitch shit. Tyler's gonna shoot his load on her face? Tyler is not even asking: like I said -- Take It When It's There...

You see, Tyler is already working on you: I told you Tyler's Keys to Closing, like I'm letting you in on an Important Secret that Tyler is sharing with only you, only now, a One-Time Deal, take-it-or-leave-it. The Truth is you can know the Keys, but unless you POSSESS the Keys it ain't gonna work for shit: you either got it in you or you don't, and Tyler knows you don't have it. Like Tyler said, Never Let the Truth Get in Your Way...

If I want it, I get it: that's how Tyler rolls...

I am Laslo

donald said...

Shows that Trump has far better taste in women than Barack, Bill and Hillary.

All because you are grotesquely ugly in mind, body and soul Shiloh doesn't mean that Melania isnt a piece of ass. And all because you are ugly doesn't mean that ain't a good thing.

PS: Thanks for the pictures. I liked em.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The Professor likes NIN, I would not have guessed.

Seems like Jay-z ahoulda done "Hard Knock Life," no?

shiloh said...

"All because you are grotesquely ugly in mind, body and soul Shiloh doesn't mean that Melania isnt a piece of ass."

ok, that was funny!

hombre said...

"Lying is the most fun ...."

Hillary knows this!

Fen said...

You sons of bitches! Get mad!! You know what it takes to sell real estate? It takes brass balls to sell real estate.

Except that's Hollywood. Real life is much different.

It reminds me of a salesman that came to my house a few years ago. Termite inspection. It was a company I had already used (and paid), and I want to renew our deal. The advert said free inspection with consult. What they sent me instead was a younger version of Baldwin's character. He tried to Hard Sell me.

One of my favorite games is to play "you are the smartest person in the room", just to see what bullshit someone will try to get away with. I was impatient to get to the courtesy inspection, to see if I even needed their service. But this chap went deep into a paragraph's long sales speech. It quickly became obvious it was memorized. He proceeded to insult my intelligence to guilt me into buying his product, he even had the blind arrogance to brag about how he had browbeat my neighbors into signing on to his plan. I sat back and gave him more rope.

You can just imagine his astonishment when his "mark" got up out of the chair and opened the front door and told him to "get the hell out". He actually blinked and asked "are you throwing me out?". Total cluelessness.

And of course, there was never going to be a courtesy inspection. That was just a scam to get you to let them in the door. Stupid move, as I had already used them once (and paid) and was planning on giving them more money.

Brass balls? LOL.

rhhardin said...

I have a large pile of to-be-watched DVDs that have been recommended that I never seem to be in the mood to watch, looking at the brief plot summary on the back at the time. Maybe someday though.

There's a contrasting genre, usually the action genre, that could be interesting but don't last five minutes before they're done.

Romcom plus action is usually good, so far.

Live, Die, Repeat : Edge of Tomorrow, sort of a one-way romance, missed a directorial oppportunity to show just the beginning of a realization at the very end that you had to infer.

The wife's look in Bridge of Spies at the end was super romantic.

Neither a romcom, no 3-act romcom structure.

Neither a women's drama either.

mockturtle said...

Fen, I should think that, if a pest control company gives you a 'courtesy inspection', they will surely find something. ;-)

Fen said...

mockturtle: Fen, I should think that, if a pest control company gives you a 'courtesy inspection', they will surely find something.

LOL. Yes, true enough. But I had that figured in. I intended to crawl around with them and see for myself. But even so, you are probably right, I had used them before so I likely would have trusted whatever advice they gave me.

Thankfully, they showed me their true colors.

"You are the smartest person in the room". Never fails to out the posers.

Jupiter said...

shiloh said...
"Karen McDougal, who had a 10 mo. affair with Trump 2006/2007 while married to Melania."

So what's your point, shiloh? Trump fucks better-looking women than you do? Clearly, that bothers you, but are you suggesting it should bother the rest of us? You're only a loser if you're playing the game.

Fen said...

I work at a Mercedes dealership, bitches: Tyler sells more cars than anybody, with all the fucking upgrades and the luxury interior, okay?

Reminds me of another sales con I encountered, this time working in the sales biz while I was attending college. Our group had two sales managers. But while one was the "official" manager, the other ("Tyler") masqueraded as an employee among us.

Every month, Tyler had outstanding numbers. Always #1 on the public shaming sales board. And every sales meeting, the "official" manager chastised us for not being like Tyler. "She gets it done! She's a Rhino! Don't tell me our call lists are junk. Don't tell me the pitch techniques we've taught you don't work! Just LOOK at Tyler's numbers. Be like her!"

I came back a year later to pick up a rec for another job, and the managers had switched positions. Tyler was now the acting manager, and the former was playing the "#1 Rhino" masquerade game. And none of the sales agents were on to it.

My takeaway was that if the company was willing to con it's own loyal employees like this, what were the willing to do to their customers?

n.n said...

Does a pro-choice religion amplify or weaken the euphoria?

mockturtle said...

Fen commented: "You are the smartest person in the room". Never fails to out the posers.

My late husband, who was British, was a master of understatement as well as gamesmanship. He could play that one to the hilt. Sometimes exasperating to watch until the final coup de grâce was delivered.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Politics are a non-stop series of climaxes for Hillary.

Achilles said...

Blogger chickelit said...

Althouse has always been honest about not letting her blog devolve into a partisan clubhouse. If that means injecting opposing views for the sake of having opposing views present -- people have waited years for that smoking gun.

I appreciate this blog and an open forum to discuss paradigms. Although this is the best place I participate in it rarely achieves that level but that isn't Althouses fault nor the lefty puppets.

The problem is the left hasn't had a real paradigm evolution since collectivism/socialism put a new face on aristocracy. Socialism has failed repeatedly and human nature will not let us accept that path. The left needs to evolve intellectually.

Robots will be making the robots that make our stuff soon. Within all of our lifetimes most likely. Inevitably as a species we are going to have to find a purpose other than the struggle to produce what we need or want to live. Lifetime duration will be a matter of choice. The most pressing issue of this campaign, that trump judges women's looks, will be moot. Everyone will have the option of being a 10. Everyone will be smart and healthy.

The most pressing issue of this generation is to find a new purpose for humans. So far only Jesus has provided a reasonable option.

Jupiter said...

Nice-looking gal, by the way.

It's a shame, really, that all of us, male and female, aren't fantastically attractive. Wouldn't that make life more enjoyable? For everyone? Maybe not. Or maybe it would, but it is simply impossible. The reason some are more attractive than others is that we want there to be a difference.

Nelson Algren, in The Man With The Golden Arm, had a prostitute thinking about the men who came to her, and what it was they wanted. She concluded; "The things that the men wanted didn't exist". I read that in my early teens, and it has stayed with me.

Jupiter said...

"Robots will be making the robots that make our stuff soon. Within all of our lifetimes most likely. Inevitably as a species we are going to have to find a purpose other than the struggle to produce what we need or want to live."

In 1900, something like 85% of American workers were directly involved in the production of food. Following a mule, up and down a furrow in the dirt, for 10 or 12 hours a day, come rain or shine. Presumably, having lost their jobs, they are all unemployed now, and their lives are without meaning.

damikesc said...

There is a possibility that Jay's lyrics aren't easily interpreted as they seem.

There's a possibility that "grab them by the pussy" wasn't literal, either. But you made the rules of the game we're playing by, so don't complain.

But they shouldn't be telling YOU that they're bringing in the closer. That's the problem with the NYT headline (if the NYT is for Hillary, and if the NYT isn't for Hillary...).

Hillary brags about practicing her "listening face". The camp brags about the most baffling things. Having to say "I've worked super hard to look human and make a case for myself" would be disqualifying for most people.

My late husband, who was British, was a master of understatement as well as gamesmanship. He could play that one to the hilt. Sometimes exasperating to watch until the final coup de grâce was delivered.

I have an excellent drawl I can unleash when needed. When I ran the valet parking area at Borgata, I would do that to people who claimed we "damaged" their car. Let them go on and on about how bad the damage was before showing them the photos we take (at every possible angle...then again they are shot on the way to the pickup area --- don't try and scam valet parking at my old casino) when we get the car from them. Then, with a friendly drawl, ask "I can't tell, does that look like a dent there? I mean, it does to ME, but maybe you see something else"

Fen said...

Althouse has always been honest about not letting her blog devolve into a partisan clubhouse. If that means injecting opposing views for the sake of having opposing views present -- people have waited years for that smoking gun.

I came here from Captain's Quarters waaay back when the "Valenti posing her breasts" controversy started. I was a staunch defender of Althouse. She even front-paged me with a compliment of how I had outed another side's blogger by cornering him with "try getting one free grope at your job, see what it gets you". It was the beginning of my mantra that "the Left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about".

I think many here would be astonished at how pleasant and kind I was back then. I was a babe in the woods, thinking that the blogosphere was going to be a Public Square where liberals would patiently listen to my points and attempt to refute them with reason and evidence.

Instead, the taught me to troll. Everything I learned about trolling, everything mean and toxic and intellectually dishonest I learned from the leftist trolls at Althouse. They made me. Frankenstein Fen. LOL. :)

Fen said...

It's a shame, really, that all of us, male and female, aren't fantastically attractive.

Would that work out though? I went to an elite high school, old money (not us though) and every single female had the bleach blonde pinched nose look. All so attractive that none of them were.

I think its why I prefer brunette's to this day. And there has to something different about them. Usually its in the eyes. But sometimes the legs. Ah yes, ZZ Top had it nailed.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"I think its why I prefer brunette's to this day."

As a rule: blonde hair is a crutch. It often papers over/ distracts from flaws that would otherwise be more obvious.

IMHO.

chickelit said...

Jelly mused: As a rule: blonde hair is a crutch. It often papers over/ distracts from flaws that would otherwise be more obvious.

Trump and Hillary are both bottle blonds. Trump is a bit more ochre.

Ann Althouse said...

"The Professor likes NIN, I would not have guessed."

I saw a lot of concerts in the 1990s because I was the adult who didn't mind driving a carful of guys to concerts. I saw lots of the big acts of the time: Hole, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Pantera, Green Day, Marilyn Manson, etc. But the concert I enjoyed the most was Nine Inch Nails. The full theater of the thing was very cool and the sound quality was such that you could feel it from the inside.

mockturtle said...

Don't kids hate it when their parents like their choice of music?

Achilles said...

In 1900, something like 85% of American workers were directly involved in the production of food. Following a mule, up and down a furrow in the dirt, for 10 or 12 hours a day, come rain or shine. Presumably, having lost their jobs, they are all unemployed now, and their lives are without meaning.

Exactly. Disruptive technology forced change. But in that situation we went from 100 man hours to produce a widget to 10 hours or 1 hour to produce a widget. But we still had to build houses and cars.

What will we do when it becomes 0 hours. The difference between 1 hour and 0 hours is infinitely more disruptive than 100 hours to 1 hour.

Some form of living stipend is a first step. Until we come up with a concept other than currency exchange. The issue is we are going to have to deal with these disruptive technological challenges in very compressed windows of time compared to the past.

shiloh said...

"So what's your point, shiloh?"

My point is, if Obama had had a (10) mo. affair w/a Playboy Playmate 10 years before he ran for president, you, Althouse, and the rest of her con lemmings would be on it like flies on shit!

And no it doesn't bother me, but I do like to point out the Althouse 24/7 double standard/hypocrisy/cruel neutrality nonsense because I know it bothers her, although she'd never admit it.

Speaking of someone who is totally insulated ie Althouse as she continues to cater/kowtow to her close-minded clan daily.

btw J, glad you asked 'cause otherwise how would you understand the obvious!

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"Some form of living stipend is a first step."

WTF?

If change means more folks have less and fewer folks have more and more: too F-ing bad. As cons will tell you, even low-end people in the States have TVs, AC and all sorts of stuff. As the number of low-end folks grows, folks should be happy w/ what they've got, or work harder/smarter. W/ regard to employees: the squeaky wheel will get replaced by silicon (or something), so STFU and get back to work for less dough.

Moochers.

chickelit said...

Fen wrote: Instead, the taught me to troll. Everything I learned about trolling, everything mean and toxic and intellectually dishonest I learned from the leftist trolls at Althouse. They made me. Frankenstein Fen. LOL. :)

Well, my concern about the leftist trolls is that they are so ham-handed about it — they're so obvious about it — that it won't work.

Fen said...

Sorry, that went over my head. When you say "that it won't work", what do you mean?

Achilles said...

Blogger Fen said...
It's a shame, really, that all of us, male and female, aren't fantastically attractive.

Would that work out though? I went to an elite high school, old money (not us though) and every single female had the bleach blonde pinched nose look. All so attractive that none of them were.

There was a movie called surrogate I believe with Bruce Willis in the lead. Another disruptive technology we are a decade from. Everyone lived through robots they controlled from home. Of course all the robots were 10's.

Pretty soon what will happen is people will start getting creative. Bestiality will take on a new meaning.

chickelit said...

@shilho: Isn't Trump on record for preferring natural breasts to pumped-up ones? The photos you linked of Trump's alleged "Playmate" depict silicone-enhancement (I wouldn't have known her from Eve without your link).

So I doubt your rumor. But do keep us abreast of further marching orders.

Fen said...

PB&J: WTF? If change means more folks have less and fewer folks have more and more -

I decline to be lectured by the side that destroyed everyone's health care to appease a minority of 30 mil that turned out to be 10 mil.

Barry said...

Not what you're going for here, but I am a little surprised you didn't note the other obvious connotation to the big event of the past week. "Closer" in baseball is the pitcher who can finish the game for the winning team - with as unhittable pitches as possible.

And while closer as a sales term may have negative connotations to some, in the selling profession its a specialized and highly desirable skill. Something to be admired. Isn't it odd that in our hallowed market-based system - built on selling things for the most profit - we've developed a typically negative mystique around the person who does the selling?

(Also ... "the sound quality was such that you could feel it from the inside" - nice.)

Achilles said...

Blogger PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
"Some form of living stipend is a first step."

WTF?

If change means more folks have less and fewer folks have more and more: too F-ing bad. As cons will tell you, even low-end people in the States have TVs, AC and all sorts of stuff. As the number of low-end folks grows, folks should be happy w/ what they've got, or work harder/smarter. W/ regard to employees: the squeaky wheel will get replaced by silicon (or something), so STFU and get back to work for less dough.

Moochers.


This is the problem with Hillary supporters, even fake ones. They cannot have an honest discussion without turning it into some way to justify and obtain more personal power over others.

chickelit said...

Fen said...Sorry, that went over my head. When you say "that it won't work", what do you mean?

I'm buying the premise that there is disingenuous lefty commenting here and that Althouse colludes to some degree. But if it gets revealed or outed, the whole reputation of the blog goes with it. That's what I meant by "won't work."

/art critic

BTW, I was parroting Bob Wright at 1:31 PM.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Fen,

Of course, the supposed con solution to health care is to get rid of a mandate and penalty that makes folks who can afford it actually pay for the health care that they use.

Get rid of folks having skin in the game, again. Markets work so well when folks can free ride, and then cash-in their government mooch-net ticket when a health problem occurs.

It's great to see premiums going up. That's what the market says it costs for these folks to be insured w/ policies that have at least some usefulness because of some basic requirements. Isn't the average US person's total healthcare cost something like $300,000. Sure, a chunk of folks are actually contributing to this w/ the Medicare payroll tax. But, plenty are not. So, as for a very rough number, divide this total lifetime number by an average lifespan. It's a big number per year. Hence insurance is going to be a big number per year. And, folks need to feel this by paying for it, or paying a penalty. That's how market forces drive down costs.

Gahrie said...

Some form of living stipend is a first step

We can't control illegal immigration now.......

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"We can't control illegal immigration now......."

Ironically, that could be solution. As it is employers like illegals (or legal foreign workers) so they can lower costs and increase their margins.

Allow these employers to import all sorts of very lowly paid folks w/ no electoral power (so they can't vote for a better situation), and then make the employers pay normal soc sec and other payroll and income taxes when these folks work. But, the benefits can all go to the whiney American moochers, rather than the workers.

Essentially, moocher Americans would be like employers who take make a profit on the work done by others. Except the moochers would not be taking and risks or making the wise business decisions that employers must do when they earn their profits.



chickelit said...

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...[a lot] and concluded: That's how market forces drive down costs.

Market forces drive down costs by opening borders for unskilled workers. Market forces work by letting Disney fire employees after they train foreign replacements. Market forces work by erasing any semblances of national borders and letting populations and cultures re-equilibrate. Did Adam Smith really have an invisible hand in all that?

exiledonmainstreet said...

An affair with a Playboy Playmate? Really, that's the best they can do at the 11th hour? Yawn.

Democrats who excused Billy Jeff's screwing around in the 90's, jeered at Republicans for being prudes, and pointed to the sophisticated French as models for how we should react to news of political leaders having affairs have only themselves to blame for the fact that this news, if true, will not change a single vote. You lowered the bar for Clinton and now want to raise it for Trump. Too late.

Especially since everyone already knows Trump is no saint.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Chick,

Don't forget the skilled foreign workers.

And, presumably you threw in the boarder erasing straw man jut for flair. So, flair points for that.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I suppose, however, that "OMG!! Affair with Playmate!!" is all the ammo Dems have since the woman who claimed that Trump raped her when she was 13 has withdrawn her claim (for the 3rd time). No juicy rape story to counteract the Juanita Wright (and Wright has never withdrawn her claim) so they have to fall back on a story about an affair. We all know how opposed the Democrats are to extramartial sex.

mockturtle said...

Did Adam Smith really have an invisible hand in all that?

More like Keynes, I think.

Pettifogger said...

The Glengary Glenn Ross interpretation is probably closer to what's intended, but the Kyra Sedgwick series is what first came to my mind. A more positive association.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Obviously it was the Kyra Sedgwick role. Ann's Google is broken. Pity, it's probably her kind of show.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Achilles,


This is the problem with Hillary supporters, even fake ones. They cannot have an honest discussion without turning it into some way to justify and obtain more personal power over others.

I think you have it the other way around. Horrible people like PBJ need someone to represent them, so when a Hillary type offers herself, they flock to her. His style is just an accurate signature of who he is. Her atrocities are nothing more than they would do in her place.

damikesc said...

Of course, the supposed con solution to health care is to get rid of a mandate and penalty that makes folks who can afford it actually pay for the health care that they use.

Get rid of folks having skin in the game, again. Markets work so well when folks can free ride, and then cash-in their government mooch-net ticket when a health problem occurs.


How about simply removing the laws disallowing insurance to be sold across state lines? It has worked wonders with auto insurance. If somebody might get an "inferior" plan from a state with less demands on policies, fine. They're getting that NOW with Obamacare as is.

It's great to see premiums going up. That's what the market says it costs for these folks to be insured w/ policies that have at least some usefulness because of some basic requirements.

It's sad, but when you kill off the ability to sell catastrophic care and utterly eradicate the individual market to help 10M people get insurance they cannot afford to use, that's what you get.

The solution being "let's give the government even MORE control" sounds insane to me.

And if Trump had an affair with a Playboy playmate, he clearly has better taste than Clinton does.

Bad Lieutenant said...

shiloh said...
"So what's your point, shiloh?"

My point is, if Obama had had a (10) mo. affair w/a Playboy Playmate 10 years before he ran for president, you, Althouse, and the rest of her con lemmings would be on it like flies on shit!

Obama was getting his dick sucked in gay bathhouses for years (on more and better evidence than you offer here). Obviously you are wrong about how it would be treated.

But, as a Navy man, maybe you favor sodomy and abhor vanilla sex between man and woman.

Bad Lieutenant said...

It's great to see premiums going up. That's what the market says it costs for these folks to be insured w/ policies that have at least some usefulness because of some basic requirements.



So the ACA exemption for preexisting conditions is anathema to you, right, and should be abolished posthaste?

As Shiloh(/ARM/you/Ann/whoever) would say, Rhetorical.

Achilles said...

Blogger Gahrie said...
Some form of living stipend is a first step

We can't control illegal immigration now......."

Someone is going to issue orders to the factory to produce a car factory, a house subdivision replicator, and a 1 million acre corn farm operation. A year or 10 later there will be enough food cars and houses for every person on the continent of Africa. With no human labor.

Will everyone still want to come here?

Freeman Hunt said...

"The full theater of the thing was very cool and the sound quality was such that you could feel it from the inside."

Heh.

Everyone in my age bracket should catch that but will anyone but the concert drivers outside of it do the same?

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Bad L,

Those costs are already paid on the DL. Folks needing care aren't left to die at the hospital doorstep.

And, there's no way to focus on costs w/o making folks have skin in the game (e.g. mandates and penalties).

Rs will never do it. E.g. the Medicare doc-fix always gets done = no savings, even after their part of the law. E.g. R's saying BHO was killing oldies w/ Medicare cuts (which is an equally effective, and much more common, D tactic). E.g. R's are beholden to geezers w/ the big dough costs, because this is the base. E.g. R's saying that using scientific research to suss out and replicate the most effective forms of treatment equals death panels.

No pol will make any tough call. People need to have their choices (as much as possible) connected to the spending that results from their choices.

I don't think I'm reinventing the wheel here.

Jon Ericson said...

Anyhoo.

chickelit said...

"I think is unconscionable that Americans enjoy wealth while others starve due simply to political boundaries"

"We need to check our American privilege at the doorstep of humanity."

Things Hillary thinks but won't say.

chickelit said...

"The full theater of the thing was very cool and the sound quality was such that you could feel it from the inside."

Irwin Allen pioneered that with Sensurround for his 1974 "Earthquake". Subsonic woofers.

SukieTawdry said...

A closer is also a late innings pitcher who comes in to protect the lead by shutting down the opposing team's offense. We'll see if that applies. Tick-tock.

Fen said...

PBandJ_Ombudsman: Of course, the supposed con solution to health care is -

We are talking about how your side killed health care. Quit trying to change the subject.


to get rid of a mandate and penalty that makes folks who can afford it actually pay for the health care that they use. It's great to see premiums going up.

Yes, the average American is now taking on an extra mortgage payment. Last person I talked to said her MONTHLY premium just doubled from $300 to $600. With a $10,000 deductible. And you think that's just "great"....

Fen said...

chickelit: I'm buying the premise that there is disingenuous lefty commenting here and that Althouse colludes to some degree. But if it gets revealed or outed, the whole reputation of the blog goes with it. That's what I meant by "won't work."

Ah, yes I agree.

In fact, last time I called this place home, I was very suspicious that she was letting a Meade sock puppet troll the readers to generate more response and hits to the site.

I had been following his comments on other sites, and there was a pattern to his insults that was very similar to several "commenters" here.

Fen said...

As for reputation, this site lost its rep during the Meltdown Incident. Ann trolled and insulted her readers and the pushback was so fierce she had to close the comments.

Then I watched as Meade attacked the Althouse LOYALISTS who had gathered for shelter on another site. It was all very disgusting. Gave me an inside look at how they really regard their followers.

And this site lost some good people over it. Never been the same since then. Althouse got arrogant and forgot that people were coming here to read the comments as much as they were coming to read her.

mockturtle said...

Althouse got arrogant and forgot that people were coming here to read the comments as much as they were coming to read her.

Not 'as much'. More.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Not 'as much'. More.

+1

chickelit said...

Jelly fibbed: And, presumably you threw in the boarder erasing straw man jut for flair. So, flair points for that.

From Tim Kaine's speech (in Spanish):

Yet during his remarks, Kaine laid out how a Clinton administration plans to hasten the demographic transformation through expansive immigration policies that would essentially bring about the dissolution of national borders.

I just burned your straw man.

chickelit said...

There are YouTube videos out there of Mexican children chanting "Fuck Trump" and "Kill Trump"

Tell me how they're not Palestinians and we're not Jews.

Alex said...

Glengarry Glen Ross is the best sales training video ever. Always Be CLosing!

Will Cate said...

Ann said: "But they shouldn't be telling YOU that they're bringing in the closer. That's the problem with the NYT headline (if the NYT is for Hillary, and if the NYT isn't for Hillary...)."

Precisely, yes.

Will Cate said...

As for the baseball-related meaning, that only works with baseball fans. I think the other meaning is more commonly thought of. At least it seems to be.

mockturtle said...

When I think 'closer', I think baseball. Specifically, I think Mariano Rivera.

RigelDog said...

I once went to watch my husband prosecute a homicide trial. As he sat down after making his final argument to the jury, one lead detective sitting near me leaned over to another detective and quietly said, "That boy's a closer!"