July 11, 2016

What does Black Lives Matter think about gun control?

In "After Dallas, the Future of Black Lives Matter," in The New Yorker, Jelani Cobb interviewing Alicia Garza, the co-founder of Black Lives Matter, asks about guns: "Does Black Lives Matter have a position on that? Is that something that you all have thought about in the wake of those incidents?"

Garza says:
When it comes to gun control, I think it’s too simplistic of a conversation. Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right. It is a part of a culture that is largely protected by special-interest groups like the N.R.A., but the right to bear arms, it seems, only exists for white people. When black people have arms, legally, they can still also be killed at the hands of the police. That’s what we saw this past week.

At the same time, because it’s a question of police and vigilante violence is so prevalent at this particular moment in this country, it feels asinine to be calling for gun control when black people, in particular, are on the losing end of that conversation, so there’s that. But then there’s the reality that, in this country, we have more guns than people, and we put guns into the hands of more people than any other country on the planet, and so that dynamic needs to be shifted. I’ll be honest with you, I really struggle with the conversation around gun control.

It’s clear to me that this person who committed these acts was not well. And also was experiencing a level of emotional trauma, like the rest of this country, in particular like the rest of black people in this country, who watched two executions on television, so his stated motive was, “I’m really upset by what I’m seeing where police are killing black people.”
At that point, Cobb sees reason to remind Garza that most people say "they want better policing" and not "that they want to actually kill the police." Garza answers:
I don’t disagree, but the point that I’m trying to make is, I think it’s an error to look at the state of why this country is so violent and not understand the complexities that lie underneath the violence. The violence that was caused by that lone gunperson in Dallas was very complex. It wasn’t about him being an adherent to black-power ideologies, as the media tried to frame it. He may have been pro-black, but he was also probably a lot of other things, and similarly when we look at the underlying causes for police violence, it’s also not black-and-white. It’s not always only about racism, or it’s not always about “police just hate black people.”
By the way, when the Dallas shootings took place, there were many people in the protesting crowd who were exercising their right under Texas law to carry firearms openly:
The Dallas police chief, David O. Brown... said the event had attracted “20 or 30 people” who “showed up with AR-15 rifles slung across their shoulder... They were wearing gas masks... They were wearing bulletproof vests and camo fatigues, for effect, for whatever reason.”

When the shooting started, “they began to run,” he said. And because they ran in the middle of the shooting, he said, the police on the scene viewed them as suspects. “Someone is shooting at you from a perched position, and people are running with AR-15s and camo gear and gas masks and bulletproof vests, they are suspects, until we eliminate that.”...

219 comments:

1 – 200 of 219   Newer›   Newest»
mccullough said...

95% of those killed by police are men. Why does BLM have women spokesmen? White men are in more danger from police violence than black women. I'll listen to black men on this issue but not women

AReasonableMan said...

Guns everywhere, making us a safer and more beautiful country every day.

ndspinelli said...

Chief Brown should be President. He is one of the most impressive people I have seen in recent years. Jake Tapper gave him half his show.

White cops kill white and black people. Black cops kill white and black people. However, we only see one of those combinations in the MSM. Althouse falls for propaganda since she lives in an insular world of books, not regular people.

ndspinelli said...

And lets not forget, according to the girlfriend in St. Paul, this cop was a "Chinese man."

tim in vermont said...

Tubman's picture on the bill should be with her gun.

mikee said...

So 20 to 30 people, (exercising an enumerated Constitutional right, during a specifically peaceful political protest no less), who neither started shooting nor even (per reports) did anything other than keep their firearms slung as they retreated from danger (instead of blasting away in all directions with their penis extensions, amiright), supposedly were viewed by some unnamed police officers (who had watched them during the whole protest be peaceful and law abiding), as suspects in a murderous ambush.

Yet no police officers are reported to have detained/arrested any of these people, nor shot at them, nor done anything other than watch them run with the rest of the crowd away from the gunfire?

I call shenanigans, or at least anti-gun narrative with unsupported facts supplied as necessary to advance not any true reporting but just the damn anti-gun narrative.

The police on the scene saw the people with slung guns as peaceful protesters, and the gun-carrying peaceful protesters did not misbehave during the ambush.

So I suspect a Democrat operative posing as a police administrator, or perhaps as a member of the press, created this story about police on the scene being confused from their own sick minds, rather than from reality.

I Callahan said...

I'm not sure anyone should take anything this far left commie is saying with anything but a grain of salt:

LINK

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tank said...

Pending narrative collapse re: the Derb:

Alton Sterling likewise had a rap sheet showing felony arrests. His court-appearance history across the last 21 years includes battery both simple and aggravated, public intimidation, carnal knowledge of a juvenile, domestic violence, burglary, receiving stolen goods, robbery, theft, drug possession, resisting arrest, possession of stolen firearm, sound reproduction without consent, and failure to register as a sex offender. [Sterling shooting: Protests continue as FBI takes over investigation, WTVM.com, July 7, 2016]

Keep in mind that, if he was in Court on these charges, there were likely 100 other incidents where he was not caught or prosecuted.

So Sterling should not have been exercising any Second Amd. right. He should have been in jail until he was a very old man and harmless. This is why you can't have a "conversation" about race. It's 90% BS.

damikesc said...

Trying to look "like a bad ass" rarely makes sense in large groups.

And the killer hating white cops is odd since white cops didn't kill either black guy in question, if memory serves.

Bob Ellison said...

The police apparently detained three people. They thought it was a group attack, not a lone gunman.

mikee said...

And as to the state of Texas allowing over-21 year old, law-abiding, concealed handgun licensees to carry their guns on some parts of state university campuses, there were protests about it immediately after the law was passed this year.

Then a coed on the campus of UT Austin was raped & murdered one night this past spring semester, while walking to her dorm across campus, by a known criminal homeless 17 year old drug abuser. The attacker was identified by reviews of campus cameras, but hey, those cameras and the emergency phones and the outlawing of weapons on campus sure as hell didn't stop the attack, at all.

No more protests of any note have been heard since then, which is nice, but it is a pity that it required a rape/murder to made the students, their parents, and most of the press here think a bit.

Michael K said...

The hysterical rhetoric of Obama and his allies are getting results. A riot in St Paul with traffic stopped for hours.

Now, a BLM "activist" decided to carry out the chant about killing cops and their families.

Gebhard threw a 50-pound concrete planter through the window and entered the Lakeshire residence as the officer's wife, mother-in-law and two young children struggled to escape through a bedroom window, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said. The off-duty officer shot and killed Gebhard.

Another peaceful protest.

Brogan said Gebhard and the police officer he befriended at a local church had clashed recently on Facebook over his nephew's support of Black Lives Matter.

Gebhard, who was biracial, supported the cause but was not an active participant in the protest movement, the uncle said.

His Facebook page contains numerous posts about police shootings of black men and the deaths of five officers in Dallas at the hands of a gunman targeting white officers. Some devolve into heated arguments and warnings of a "race war." Some posts are conciliatory, calling for black and white people to come together. One shows an image of a candle burning for the fallen Dallas officers.


Yeah, nothing to see here. Move along.

pm317 said...

When the shooting started, “they began to run,” he said. And because they ran in the middle of the shooting, he said, the police on the scene viewed them as suspects. “Someone is shooting at you from a perched position, and people are running with AR-15s and camo gear and gas masks and bulletproof vests, they are suspects, until we eliminate that.”...

How ludicrous is this open carry and how exacerbating it is for law enforcement in a situation like that.. Fortunately they didn't take matters into their own hands and start shooting at each other.

TreeJoe said...

I'm trying to find MORE confirmed sourcing on this but here's my understanding:

Alton Sterling was illegally carrying a concealed firearm. He was a felon with a history of assault, of severely resisting arrest including wrestling with an officer, and was >300 pounds.

Philandro Castile outraged me as well. There are reports now about how he may have been pulled over as an armed robbery suspect, and may or may not have had a concealed carry permit (there are differing reports on whether had an actual concealed carry permit). However those reports are sketchy at best right now.

These are two extremely different cases yet being treated equally. Just like Eric Garner, a man truly in need of help ignored by police, was treated the same as Trayvon Martin, a man who evidence shows was on top of another man, assaulting him, beating his head in the dark in the rain and was killed by a licensed concealed carry holder in self defense. Yet those were treated equally as well. It goes on with Ferguson and Michael Brown - a man literally caught on camera robbing a convenience store and assaulting the clerk less than an hour before being confronted by a police officer, who evidence shows was in a struggle with that officer IN THE FRONT SEAT/through the window of the car.....yet sainted.

I have tremendous sympathy and empathy for the black community's struggles - but the false equivalencies have got to stop. You can't make every death of every very poor decision maker into the struggle of a people under oppression. There are real injustices here - fight those (i.e. Eric Garner not receiving medical attention.)





Fernandinande said...

"What does Black Lives Matter think about gun control?"

"Think" should have sarcasm quotes around it.

Larry J said...

Just because open carry may be legal, it's often not a good idea. As one of my coworkers (strong CC advocate) puts it, "If you're carrying openly, you'll be the first one the bad people will shoot. Open carry means you lose the element of surprise."

TreeJoe said...

One more thing: Regarding Philando Castile. Why has NO ONE pointed out that neither the girlfriend nor the officer, in all the time she was making the video and in the car, administered any aid to prevent further blood loss?

I mean, I hold the officer fully responsible for this situation in terms of both shooting and the death, but why wasn't even the girlfriend trying to help him? It's 2016 - we know that blood loss is bad. I don't know all the details of his wounds, but at that moment they knew he was shot in the arm - why not throw a tourniquet around his upper arm?

He may not have had to die.

Brando said...

Pending an official investigation, the Castile case should be met with alarm by the pro-gun side. Here was a man ostensibly doing what you're supposed to do when you are legally armed and confronted by the police--tell them you're armed and slowly produce the weapon when they ask you (though in this case it isn't clear what exactly went down that led to him being shot). But cops can also overreact when they know you're armed, and should be better trained to deal with legally armed suspects to prevent misunderstandings with tragic results.

MadisonMan said...

The police apparently detained three people. They thought it was a group attack, not a lone gunman.

And early headlines made reference to >1 attacker.

James Pawlak said...

The thug lawfully killed in Baton Rouge was a convicted felon and, as far as I know, had no rights under the Second Amendment.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

I'm having a hard time believing that it's accurate to say that "Black Lives Matter" has a founder, no less a co-founder.

Rick said...

It wasn’t about him being an adherent to black-power ideologies, as the media tried to frame it. He may have been pro-black, but he was also probably a lot of other things, and similarly when we look at the underlying causes for police violence, it’s also not black-and-white. It’s not always only about racism, or it’s not always about “police just hate black people.”

The left is resisting the belief BLM bears some responsibility for this supporter because of their inflammatory rhetoric. This is in stark contrast to their blaming the right for the Gabby Giffords attack and the OKC bombing (including Bill Clinton blaming it on right wing radio).

Apparently nuance is out of fashion when it impedes the left's efforts to blame their opponents for political murder.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
Guns everywhere, making us a safer and more beautiful country every day.

Yes they do. I had a beautiful and safe Sunday morning murdering some clay pigeons. You should try it sometime.

Curious George said...

"Brando said...
Pending an official investigation, the Castile case should be met with alarm by the pro-gun side. Here was a man ostensibly doing what you're supposed to do when you are legally armed and confronted by the police--tell them you're armed and slowly produce the weapon when they ask you (though in this case it isn't clear what exactly went down that led to him being shot). But cops can also overreact when they know you're armed, and should be better trained to deal with legally armed suspects to prevent misunderstandings with tragic results."

I read a report that said he was not licensed to carry, and that he was stopped not for a broken tail light, but because he fit the description of a guy who had just committed an armed robbery in the area.

LarsPorsena said...

Philandro Castile outraged me as well. There are reports now about how he may have been pulled over as an armed robbery suspect, and may or may not have had a concealed carry permit (there are differing reports on whether had an actual concealed carry permit). However those reports are sketchy at best right now.
------------------------------------------------

I think the confusion is whether he made legal purchase of a firearm or had a concealed carry permit. Peole are using the terms interchangeably.

Chuck said...

I still want an explanation to justify the national obsession with race as the (sole) motivation in unjustified police shootings. The obsession is so powerful that even when a police shooting is thoroughly investigated by state and federal officials in succession, and the shooting is found to have been 100% justified, the national conversation seems unchanged.

The need is for leaders who are intelligent, articulate, careful and respectful. To debate in a fashion that is so unimpeachable that disparate interests may be forced to agree with positions the previously rejected.

Instead, we have the idiotic, blundering Trump and the shameless, pandering Clinton.

Owen said...

Prof. Althouse: your excerpt from the interview of the BLM mouthpiece is fascinating. She seems to point in all directions on the issue of gun rights and gun control. Admittedly it is a complicated subject but I guess she finds it too confusing; or finds the confusion to be convenient.

Sebastian said...

Why no thorough fisking on this character?

"Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right." Umm, no. Sterling was a felon, Castille's permit is in doubt.

"but the right to bear arms, it seems, only exists for white people." Huh? Says who?

"When black people have arms, legally, they can still also be killed at the hands of the police. That’s what we saw this past week." Umm, no. Narratives are already collapsing. See upthread.

"It’s clear to me that this person who committed these acts was not well." Ah, yes. Like all the white shooters, who are just "not well," and from whose unwellness we never generalize to the evils of guns and whites.

"And also was experiencing a level of emotional trauma, like the rest of this country, in particular like the rest of black people in this country, who watched two executions on television" Self-induced trauma, based on lies.

"so his stated motive was, “I’m really upset by what I’m seeing where police are killing black people.”" Sure. And BLM and O have nothing to do with it. And oh, by the way, it was also "very complex."

"I think it’s an error to look at the state of why this country is so violent and not understand the complexities that lie underneath the violence." The country is much less violent than it used to be. Particular groups and communities still are very violent, though also, believe it or not, less than in the past.

"It wasn’t about him being an adherent to black-power ideologies, as the media tried to frame it. He may have been pro-black, but he was also probably a lot of other things" Seems very denigrating to disbelieve a black man who clearly states his motives. We'd take a white man at his word, wouldn't we?

Hagar said...

Kudos to Mr. Castile's "girl friend" for keeping her cool and getting her story out first and maybe saving her skin, but we are being played again, and I suspect the same for Mr. Sterling's case.

As big as this country is and the situation being what it is, there has got to be genuine bad police behavior happening somewhere just about every day, so why do the media always manage to pick up the totally bogus stories and blow them up into sensations?

Sebastian said...

"Why has NO ONE pointed out that neither the girlfriend nor the officer, in all the time she was making the video and in the car, administered any aid to prevent further blood loss?" Was the girlfriend a, you know, girlfriend?

AReasonableMan said...

Larry J said...
Just because open carry may be legal, it's often not a good idea.


If concealed carry is to be legal then open carry should be mandatory. For the non-insane it is useful to have a clear marker of the insane.

MisterBuddwing said...

Couldn't find an online video, but I recall an episode of "All in the Family" (remember?) which centered around gun control.

At one point, Archie Bunker had a question for neighbor Lionel Jefferson, along the lines of, "How do your people feel about guns?" (Lionel, of course, was black.)

And Lionel, with mock politeness, replied: "It all depends on who's holding them."

Brando said...

"I read a report that said he was not licensed to carry, and that he was stopped not for a broken tail light, but because he fit the description of a guy who had just committed an armed robbery in the area."

I hadn't heard of that--but let's say he wasn't licensed to carry but still informed the officer that he was armed. Officers sometimes make mistakes in the heat of the moment, and with an armed suspect can have heightened tension, but it's better for all involved if the officer is able to defuse a situation and prevent any violence in any event. I don't think it's a bad idea to call out cases where someone gets shot and wonder if the arrest could have been made without that happening. After all, if enough mistakes like this keep happening it could easily be any of us on the other end of the gun (not to mention it benefits no one to have the police more reluctant to confront citizens in the first place).

Brando said...

"And Lionel, with mock politeness, replied: "It all depends on who's holding them.""

One of my favorite Lionelisms was when Archie asked him how "you people" handle women's liberation, and Lionel says "we're still working on plain ole liberation".

TreeJoe said...

"Why has NO ONE pointed out that neither the girlfriend nor the officer, in all the time she was making the video and in the car, administered any aid to prevent further blood loss?" Was the girlfriend a, you know, girlfriend?"

IDK, but I'm pretty damn sure my expectation is that an officer seeks to defend him/herself and save lives. You know, protect the public. Including a public that shows no evidence he actually pulled a gun on an officer or presented a clear and present danger (I love that movie).

The officer was obviously upset at the shooting and still wired, but over the course of 90 seconds or so he didn't attempt to secure the driver nor administer aid to him. The shooting is bad enough, the lack of immediate action thereafter is damning. I don't know Castile's wound profiles, but if he died from blood loss - especially from his arms - that's really damning. A tourniquet administered by a professional takes seconds to apply to an appendage. Hell, just removing the weapon and asking the girlfriend to apply pressure on the wound would have been caught on video and taken 10 seconds and possibly saved his life.

MisterBuddwing said...

Didn't the cop - still holding the gun - order the girlfriend to stay still?

Brando said...

I think the question is less whether the citizen had a legal permit for their gun and more how the shooting went down--did the police tell the man not to move and he reached for the gun anyway? Did the man actually act reasonably and tell the cop he was going for his license and the cop panicked and shot him?

The point is the right to concealed carry becomes meaningless if cops are going to freak out upon learning you're armed and just shoot you. It's worth asking what they're trained to do in that situation that could prevent more killings.

William said...

Micah Johnson was a panty thief. What combination of racism and anger drives a man to such a desperate act.. The BLM spokesman didn't address this issue, but it's important for white America to know that the act of panty theft doesn't happen in a vacuum. There is, indeed, no single pathological act that a black man can commit that is not ultimately the consequence of white racism.

Lauderdale Vet said...

I carry concealed.

Just because you have the right do do something, doesn't make it sensible.

You suffer the consequences of your choices.

Showing up to a rally protesting law enforcement with a long gun, and suddenly there's a sniper attack? Choices. Consequences.

I'm perfectly aware that even though I carry concealed, should I find myself in mortal peril and choose to draw my weapon to defend life, any law enforcement officer that arrives on the scene will consider me a threat.

All the more reason to only exercise that right when faced with mortal peril.

But that's me.

EDH said...

TreeJoe said...
One more thing: Regarding Philando Castile. Why has NO ONE pointed out that neither the girlfriend nor the officer, in all the time she was making the video and in the car, administered any aid to prevent further blood loss?

Since Castile said he was carrying, the girlfriend reaching over to touch him to render aid could be construed by the officer as going for his weapon. So she refrained. I think that may have even been said at some point during the video.

Michael K said...

"If concealed carry is to be legal then open carry should be mandatory. "

This is dog-in-the-manger stuff. You don't like guns. OK You don't have to have one.

I have one in my bedside table. I don't want to get a permit, which I could probably get as a physician going out at night.

I am a little uneasy at people who open carry long guns as they seem to be a bit too enthusiastic and maybe a bit unbalanced.

Like most on the left, you like o force everyone to adopt your preferred policy.

open carry should be mandatory. "

Why ?

Titus said...

How does carrying a gun in public, concealed or not, make you feel?

Just curious.

If someone was walking around with an unconcealed big gun in Boston people would freak.

Have a super day!

richlb said...

Scott Adams was right.

The Drill SGT said...

Garza says:
When it comes to gun control, I think it’s too simplistic of a conversation. Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right.


1. Sterling was a convicted felon without the right to possess a gun
2. he had previously been arrested for illegal weapon possession
3. The police were responding to a 911 call about Sterling threatening a homeless man with a pistol
4. he resisted arrest
5. he had the gun on him within reach of his un-pinned arm

Act like Sterling did, and bad things will happen...

Big Mike said...

Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right.

True in the case of Philando Castile, and it should be noted that the NRA itself has called for an investigation. But not true in the case of Alton Sterling. There are many rights that convicted felons lose, and their Second Amendment rights are principal among them.

Alicia Garza is a know nothing, a liar, and a slime-eating maggot.

Matthew Sablan said...

"There are many rights that convicted felons lose, and their Second Amendment rights are principal among them."

-- See, I haven't been following this closely, so after reading this, I just assumed early reporting about Sterling not being allowed to carry was wrong, like a lot of facts in reports about shootings in general. Double checking, apparently, the reporting on that was not wrong. Kind of a sloppy construction from Garza.

Sebastian said...

"if enough mistakes like this keep happening" Jumping to conclusions. Not clear if any "mistakes" were made. See Drill Sgt. on Sterling at 9:39. Castile was a gangbanger who fit the profile of someone who committed armed robbery nearby, caught on video. As far as I know, we only have the "girlfriend"'s word on the exchange prior to the shooting. At least part of her statement has already been exposed as a lie: they were not stopped for a broken tail light. The permit is in doubt. Where the gun was at the moment of shooting is also not clear. It is possible that this shooting was a gross overreaction. It is also possible that the narrative first peddled turns out to be BS once again, exploited for political purposes to fan the flames of racial discord.

Unknown said...

"I mean, I hold the officer fully responsible for this situation in terms of both shooting and the death, but why wasn't even the girlfriend trying to help him? It's 2016 - we know that blood loss is bad. I don't know all the details of his wounds, but at that moment they knew he was shot in the arm - why not throw a tourniquet around his upper arm?"

Seriously? Because the cop was screaming at the woman to keep her hands on the steering wheel and maybe, just maybe she was frightened for her own life and the life of her 4 year old child in case the hysterical cop starting shooting again. Did you even watch the video?

Lauderdale Vet said...

> How does carrying a gun in public, concealed or not, make you feel?

Alert. Aware. Cautious.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
open carry should be mandatory. "

Why ?


If someone is carrying a lethal weapon I think it is fair that everyone around them is aware of this fact.

Bruce Hayden said...

Give the Texans carrying ARs a break. They only got the right to open carry state wide (I.e. In the big cities) a month or two ago. They could carry concealed for quite awhile, but Texas, unlike much of the country, allowed municipalities to ban it up until very recently. No doubt, they were embarrassed about this. Texas is supposed to be a firearms paradise, thanks to its old west heritage, but was behind much of the country in this regard. The thing about openly carrying long guns in public like that was to make a statement. In a couple years, the novelty will have worn off, and they won't bother.

The more usual scenario is what we have in MT, which allows permitless open carry most everywhere, but not concealed carry in the cities without a permit. Which means that you see open carry on a somewhat regular basis - of handguns. Little reason to walk around carrying a long gun, so you just don't see it except when they are expected to be used, such as for hunting. The only reason you look at openly carried handguns is to see what they are carrying, because choice of handgun says something about the person carrying it. For example, I noted that the deputy in front of me at the Town Pump yesterday was carrying a very nice 1911. His choice said to me that he knows and loves guns, spending far more than he needed for his duty weapon. Then there was the guy who used to water the plants in town, in the same line a couple days earlier. Not surprised that it was not nearly as nice, and I suspect he wasn't nearly as proficient with it.

eric said...

This is the third or fourth time I've heard the phrase "lone gunman" in regards to the Dallas shooter.

Does anyone really know at this point if he was a lone gunman? Have the Dallas police concluded their investigation and announced he was a lone gunman?

If not, then why do some people feel it's important to refer to that situation as being committed by a lone gunman who was crazy?

Just kidding. We all know the answer.

David said...

Ms. Garza is talking in a circle about gun control. Interview her again in a decade and see if she has made up her mind.

Lauderdale Vet said...

> If someone is carrying a lethal weapon I think it is fair
> that everyone around them is aware of this fact.

I personally think concealed carry promotes safety. First off, I'm not a prized candidate for the knockout game. Second, thugs are hesitant when they live in a world where they aren't sure if their victims are armed or not.

I live in Florida. We have 1.5 million concealed carriers last I checked. SOMEONE is carrying nearby at almost all times. It has done wonders for our violent crime rate, actually.

Mike said...

Adults who play dress up with real weapons and tactical gear do it to intimidate, to incite fear. And then they run when real bullets fly, revealing just how hollow those kevlar vests are.

MisterBuddwing said...

If not, then why do some people feel it's important to refer to that situation as being committed by a lone gunman who was crazy?

Just kidding. We all know the answer.


For some people, it was extremely important that Jared Lee Loughner was a crazed lone gunman.

Michael K said...

"If someone is carrying a lethal weapon I think it is fair that everyone around them is aware of this fact. "

Your ignorance is, I guess, understandable.

The level of safety provided by CCW includes the uncertainty on the part of criminals whether the person being targeted might be armed.

This is a major reason why crime goes down so much in CCW states.

I doubt you are aware of this.

Mike said...

Mikee, several of these dress-up open carry people were detained and interviewed downtown. Original reports were that there were 4 or 5 shooters. Only later did they sort it out and report single shooter.

n.n said...

The conversation is too simplistic. White people are aborted in greater numbers when they are armed and disarmed.

We need economic revitalization, not a progressive welfare industry.

We need to end Obama's progressive wars, refugee crises, and excessive immigration.

We need to end class diversity (e.g. racism) mongering.

We need to end abortion rites, Planned Parenthood (i.e. clinical cannibalism), and other practices of the State-established Church that debase human life.

We do not need to end Americans' right to self-defense.

AReasonableMan said...

Lauderdale Vet said...
I live in Florida. We have 1.5 million concealed carriers last I checked. SOMEONE is carrying nearby at almost all times. It has done wonders for our violent crime rate, actually.


11 Of The Nation’s 100 Most Dangerous Cities Are In Florida

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
The level of safety provided by CCW includes the uncertainty on the part of criminals whether the person being targeted might be armed.


This assumes most people around the concealed weapon carrier are criminals when the vast majority are sane law abiding citizens, who should be made aware of the insane among them, where that is possible.

Unknown said...

BLM is a racist black political group. Very much akin to the KKK. When will Clinton disavow the BLM and the black panther party for a 1000 times straight?

Darrell said...

Seriously? Because the cop was screaming at the woman to keep her hands on the steering wheel

Unknown didn't even know the video is mirrored--the woman shooting the tape is not the driver, thus was never told to keep her hands on the wheel. The man shot was the driver and was the one sitting behind the wheel.

Lauderdale Vet said...

> who should be made aware of the insane among them, where that is possible.

I also have three fire extinguishers in my house. My family knows where they are and how to use them. We don't live in fear of fire, and our preparation is simply mature preparation.

Making basic preparations for encountering violence is no more insane than making basic preparations for encountering fire.

Bruce Hayden said...

For those of you who get upset and worried whenever you see non-LEOs openly carrying firearms, keep in mind that it is almost guaranteed that they are not convicted felons. Felons illegally carry concealed, because they don't want to be caught with a firearm and be sent back to prison for it. Those open carriers are not going to, with no legal cause, draw on you and shoot you. Just isn't going to happen. They are law abiding citizens, and know that even pointing a gun at someone unprovoked legally might land them in prison, preventing them from ever again legally possessing any sort of firearm.

JAORE said...

When the shooter targets black people the motivation is simple - racism.
When the shooter targets groups like children or black church goers the culprit is obvious - the NRA.

But when the shooter is black, targeting white cops suddenly it is - complex.

Ahhhh - I think I have it now.... nope, slipped away.

Darcy said...

I guess we are not going to wait for due process on the two different police shootings of black men. We are just going to continue to call them "executions" - regardless of whether it causes more loss of innocent life.

Thank you, media. I am triggered now. I feel hate for you.

Lauderdale Vet said...

> 11 Of The Nation’s 100 Most Dangerous Cities Are In Florida

Being able to prepare for violence is not a panacea.

The murder rate has dropped considerably since we have been able to carry.

Still, there's still plenty of things down here that need fixing.

Big Mike said...

Ya know, after SEIU thugs beat up a Black man at a Tea Party rally in "peaceful" Madison, WI, a different Black man showed up at a Tea Party rally with an AR slung over his shoulder. His picture -- carefully cropped to hide his skin color -- made the rounds of talking heads on the cable news channels, caused female anchors to have visible palpitations at those "violent" Tea Partiers.

Now we find that the BLM rally in Dallas included a score or more people with ARs slung over their shoulder but no one sees fit to mention that fact? I wonder why that is the case?

BrianE said...

"It’s clear to me that this person who committed these acts was not well"- Ms. Althouse

As was every mass murderer since the beginning of time.

Gun Control-Abortion-Homosexual Rights seems to be the core principals of the Liberal, if one is to draw a conclusion based on the Althouse blog.

If one is to draw a conclusion about the sheer number of guns and persons whose hands have had a gun placed in them, it would be the extremely small number of gun related deaths in the country.

The top 10 most common causes of death

#10 Assault by firearm- 1 in 300
#9 Exposure to narcotics- 1 in 289
#8 Car accident- 1 in 272
#7 Falls- 1 in 184
#6 Drug overdose- 1 in 139
#5 Suicide- 1 in 115
#4 Land vehicle accidents 1 in 85
#3 Stroke- 1 in 28
#2 Cancer- 1 in 7
#1 Heart Disease 1 in 6

Tank said...

Taylor with some good sense on the "gun" problem.

Of course, this "conversation" does not fit the narrative.

Big Mike said...

Does anybody think ARM will suddenly have enough brain cells simultaneously function that he will realize it's not the person with a concealed carry permit and a legally acquired firearm that he has to worry about -- it's the person who is carrying a concealed, illegally-acquired, firearm that he has to worry about?

Rhetorical question I guess.

Bruce Hayden said...

In most of the country, legal concealed carriers know one thing that most others do not, and that is the law of self defense, and when they can legally use their concealed firearms. This means that you never point a gun at anyone until you are ready to and legally entitled to shoot them in self defense. That means that they must pose a reasonable (subjectively and objectively) risk of imminent death or great bodily injury to the shooter or some innocent third party. Any other time is most likely a crime, likely resulting in prison and the permanent loss of gun rights.

Char Char Binks said...

They want white people and cops disarmed so they can thug in peace.

Anglelyne said...

Chuck: I still want an explanation to justify the national obsession with race as the (sole) motivation in unjustified police shootings. The obsession is so powerful that even when a police shooting is thoroughly investigated by state and federal officials in succession, and the shooting is found to have been 100% justified, the national conversation seems unchanged.

There is no "national conversation" on these shootings. There is on one side thoughtful people informing themselves and trying to understand what is going on, and on the other, pols spouting bullshit, a brain-dead MSM pushing those pols' phony-baloney narrative (and sounding crazier and stupider by the day), and hustlers on the make.

The need is for leaders who are intelligent, articulate, careful and respectful. To debate in a fashion that is so unimpeachable that disparate interests may be forced to agree with positions the previously rejected.

Lol. Intelligent and unimpeachable argument only persuades intelligent honest people. Intelligent, dishonest people know perfectly well that honest but not so intelligent people are easily persuaded by specious arguments, and that stupid and dishonest voters are not persuaded by any kind of appeal to intellect or abstract principles at all.

It's "who, whom" Chuck, not "what, how, or why". The MSM would have no trouble at all labeling your ideal leader a racist/rascist/bad person/whatever and making it stick. (Aided and abetted, no doubt, by groveling cuckservatives.)

TreeJoe said...

Jeez there is alot of misinformation in this thread on both sides of the argument. Let's address a few items:

1. The Police Officer was not ordering Castile's girlfriend to freeze/stay still. For crying out loud, she was rotating back and forth and holding a cell phone talking into it for over 90 seconds.

2. We don't know why Castile was pulled over. One questionable source says because he looked like an armed robbery suspect, the girlfriend states in the video for a broken taillight (which could have been the excuse the officer used). In the video, the officer did not dispute that he had pulled her over for a broken tail light nor dispute that he had said he was carrying - in fact the officers actions/words in the video support that he was told Castile was a concealed carry permit owner and was carrying.

3. Above someone calls Castile a "gangbanger" - really? His only criminal history was non-felonious traffic violations (and lots of them). He held a full time job for quite a long time. And we have no evidence or confirmation he actually committed an armed robbery - just some weak evidence that may have been the actual reason he was pulled over.

...

I swear if I didn't know better I'd say there are active mis-information campaigns on both sides.

Michael K said...

"who should be made aware of the insane among them, where that is possible."

I see no further discussion with you is possible. Too bad. There are days when you seem intelligent.

Unknown said...

white people in America will fight for your right to bear arms- so long as you don't look like Philando Castile.

Castile is by no means the only man to be killed by US police; in fact official figures show that US police killed more white men than black men last year. However, the figures get more complicated when you dig further. Compared to the overall population, a black man is twice as likely to be killed by the police as a white man.

When you look into the individual circumstances behind the shootings, it gets increasingly difficult to find an example of a white man being shot by police just because they were white and possibly armed, whereas it is strikingly easy to find examples of unarmed black men being shot just because police thought they had a gun (whether or not they actually did).

900 people shot dead by police in 2015

This might sound extreme, but that’s because it is extreme: extreme thinking with extreme consequences. What you will discover if you scroll through the individual cases of police shootings from 2015 is that the majority of police shootings against white or black men are provoked, as you might expect. In many cases, police have been directly shot at or otherwise attacked. Clearly being an officer in a country where everyone can carry a gun is dangerous, and no one would dispute that.

Michael K said...

"active mis-information campaigns on both sides."

I believe there are facebook pages suggesting he is a crip member.

The rest I am willing to wait for more info.

n.n said...

Strange, there was a mass abortion event, but the conversation revolves around the alleged wrongful abortion of one individual. I guess Pro-choice and class diversity mongering reduces people to a mere colorful clump of cells to be cannibalized (e.g. recycled), sorted, and discriminated, selectively. Unqualified progress.

EMD said...

For the non-insane it is useful to have a clear marker of the insane.

Please point me in the direction of all of the open shootout blood baths in the streets from open and concealed-carry "insane" citizenry. I'll wait.





Rick said...

Unknown said...
white people in America will fight for your right to bear arms- so long as you don't look like Philando Castile.


Are you aware nothing you posted supports this conclusion?

Maybe if you didn't assume whites are racist and think whatever is politically convenient at the moment you wouldn't make such mistakes.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Rick, the statistics in the link from the Washington Post which was embedded in the article, supports the author's conclusion. I see you didn't even bother to check it out.

Michael said...

Alicia is so inarticulate it makes me cringe. To be so unable to express oneself must be infuriating. Most of the BLM seems afflicted with this problem.

Unknown said...

Video. Cop yelling at female passenger "Keep your hands where they are!"

I doubt she would be alive today if she hadn't heeded that demand.

n.n said...

There was actually positive progress before the resumption of abortion rites and class diversity mongering. Carrying a gun or scalpel is not the issue. The issue is how these tools are used. The issue is how people perceive each other.

Rick said...

Unknown said...
the statistics in the link from the Washington Post which was embedded in the article, supports the author's conclusion.


This is not true. In fact neither article even mentions support for second amendment rights. But it doesn't surprise me you can't follow evidence to conclusion.

Darrell said...

I believe there are facebook pages suggesting he is a crip member.

His "Merry Cripmas" holiday messages across social media are a hint, I believe.

AReasonableMan said...

People who think they need a gun to walk safely down the street are psychologically similar to transexuals. They believe intensely that there is physical solution (guns) to a mental problem (paranoia).

It is reasonable for those of us who are not paranoid to expect that the paranoid who are carrying are labeled in some way, obligatory open carry is a fair compromise.

EMD said...

"People who think they need a gun to walk safely down the street are psychologically similar to transexuals. They believe intensely that there is physical solution (guns) to a mental problem (paranoia)."

Please regale us with your extensive psychological evaluation tests and subsquent data.

Rick said...

AReasonableMan said...
It is reasonable for those of us who are not paranoid to


You are paranoid. Almost none of the people walking around with guns will ever use them except at target practice yet you're so afraid of them you cannot function.

Todd said...

Eric the Fruit Bat said... [hush]​[hide comment]
I'm having a hard time believing that it's accurate to say that "Black Lives Matter" has a founder, no less a co-founder.

7/11/16, 9:00 AM


Sure it has a founder, George Soros...

SeanF said...

AReasonableMan: If concealed carry is to be legal then open carry should be mandatory.

What? How could concealed carry be legal and open carry be mandatory at the same time? That doesn't even make sense.

And, really, laws against concealed carry are the quintessential "criminals don't obey gun laws" example. If a law against murder isn't going to prevent Joe Q. Badguy from murdering you, then a law against concealed carry isn't going to prevent him from carrying concealed.

And if somebody is compelled to avoid carrying concealed because it's illegal, then that person would almost certainly not be a threat to anybody if they did carry.

So what's actually accomplished by banning concealed carry?

Unknown said...

"By now we are all familiar with the passion and vigour with which the majority of Americans defend their right to bear arms."

Are you dyslexic Rick?

AReasonableMan said...

Rick said...
you're so afraid of them you cannot function.


Yet I am the one who can walk down the street unarmed.

cubanbob said...

Best I can conclude from the muddled-minded BLM is that gun control is good when applied to cops and whites but not when applied to people of color.

ARM if you are going to use sources to make an opinion, use credible ones and Huffington isn't credible. Your FL comment is misleading, most of the gun crime in the FL cities mentioned in the Huffington Post are not committed by whites or as we call them here, Anglos.

Rick said...

Yet I am the one who can walk down the street unarmed.

As can they, but you cannot have a reasonable conversation.

Todd said...

Mike said...

Adults who play dress up with real weapons and tactical gear do it to intimidate, to incite fear. And then they run when real bullets fly, revealing just how hollow those kevlar vests are.

7/11/16, 9:57 AM


Apparently there is nothing those folks carrying long guns could have done to make you happy other than not have the guns with them.

Had they actually started shooting at the gunfire, best case you would have ridiculed them for "playing cop" and adding to the confusion and being reckless, etc.

They did not use their guns, they ran just like everyone else. You mock them.

They did the correct thing. Professional law enforcement was on site so they "got out of the way".

Should they have been carrying? Likely not but it was/is their right. Should the NYT publish even half of the crap they do? Likely not but it is their right.

TreeJoe said...

Michael K said, "I believe there are facebook pages suggesting he is a crip member."

He was a member of a group called "crips" - that was it. It was not the official crips facebook page nor any reason info around it. Does not make him a gangbanger.

Rick said...

Unknown said...
"By now we are all familiar with the passion and vigour with which the majority of Americans defend their right to bear arms."

Are you dyslexic Rick?


Are you unable to follow logic? To support the claim there needs to be evidence of Americans not doing this. What evidence was provided?

Dr Weevil said...

Is it true that "11 of the Nation's 100 Most Dangerous Cities Are in Florida"? (ARM, 10:00am)
No, it is not. If you follow his link, you'll find:
1. That there are actually 12 Florida "cities" in the list of 100. ARM quotes a journalist who can't even get the most basic things right.
2. That some of these cities are what most of us would call small towns, e.g. #40 Riviera Beach (pop. 33,000) and #47 Lake Worth (pop. 37,000).
3. That Florida "cities" are 12 of the top 100 (12%), but only 4 of the top 50 (8%), and none of the top 20.
4. That the 4 in the top 50 have a total population under 200,000, while the only Maryland city in the top 50 (#19 Baltimore) has a population around 620,000.
Conclusion: counting cities and then grouping them by state is a terribly misleading way of figuring out which state is more dangerous.
Of course, Lauderdale Vet's point (10:11am) is even more compelling: that the direction of the crime rate since concealed carry was passed is what's important. If (hypothetically) Florida's crime rate is higher than some non-CC state's, but Florida's is dropping and the other one's is climbing - that's a point in favor of CC. As with Economics, static analysis of gun laws is stupid.

Unknown said...

Rick, I think maybe you're having a bad day, maybe take a break and come back later, need more coffee? If you had difficulty grasping the author's conclusion as based on the statistics, I can't help you.

Michael K said...

"obligatory open carry is a fair compromise."

No, it is a hissy fit that does not become you. I understand you do not like guns and no one will make you have one or carry it.

I think you are affecting to misunderstand those who point out that CCW is an option that increases uncertainty in the criminal class who might otherwise feel comfortable attacking you.

"He was a member of a group called "crips"

Thank you for confirming what I wrote. He also had some symbology related to the crips gang.

Todd said...

AReasonableMan said...
People who think they need a gun to walk safely down the street are psychologically similar to transexuals. They believe intensely that there is physical solution (guns) to a mental problem (paranoia).

It is reasonable for those of us who are not paranoid to expect that the paranoid who are carrying are labeled in some way, obligatory open carry is a fair compromise.
7/11/16, 10:52 AM


Well, for your own well being, you should always just assume everyone around you is carrying a weapon. Problem solved (for you).

holdfast said...

On first aid, it appears from the video and other reports that the bullet went through his arm and into his chest. So not much first aid to be done inside a car. If it hit his heart, he was a dead man sitting as soon as it hit - MAYBE he could have been saved if he'd been shot like that inside a hospital.

Dr Weevil said...

SeanF (11:00am):
"What? How could concealed carry be legal and open carry be mandatory at the same time? That doesn't even make sense."

Sure it does. He thinks anyone carrying concealed should be carrying a second weapon openly! Nothing illogical about that . . . technically, if we go with logic all the way and forget about common sense.

mikeski said...

ARM said: "11 Of The Nation’s 100 Most Dangerous Cities Are In Florida"

Florida passed concealed carry in 1987. Does this graph suggest anything to you?

AReasonableMan said...

mikeski said...
Does this graph suggest anything to you?


Any graph with a truncated y-axis suggests that the person who made the graph is lying.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger AReasonableMan said...
mikeski said...
Does this graph suggest anything to you?

Any graph with a truncated y-axis suggests that the person who made the graph is lying.
-------------------------

Truncated Y axis?? How so? Please explain.

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that these shootings will ultimately set back the cause of gun control, as it is setting back the cause of BLM. Open carry isn't going away any time soon in TX, Gun controlling Dems are going to overplay their hand again, pushing legislation that bears no relationship to the problem, or that is patently unconstitutional. Gun sales are again booming, and not just in CA in response to their idiotic new gun laws. If a black fanatic/nut job is going to go after armed cops in this way, what is going to protect the rest of us from other such nut jobs, or the merely criminal?



I Callahan said...

Unknown.

Rick, the statistics in the link from the Washington Post which was embedded in the article, supports the author's conclusion.

No, Rick's point stands. You also have to consider the racial component of who's doing the crimes. Which you completely ignored.

damikesc said...

How ludicrous is this open carry and how exacerbating it is for law enforcement in a situation like that..

"How ludicrous is this illegal search and seizure and how exacerbating it is for law enforcement..."

Lots of things are "exacerbating" and "ludicrous". If you wish to forfeit your rights, you are free to do so. Please do not expect others to follow suit.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
I think you are affecting to misunderstand those who point out that CCW is an option that increases uncertainty in the criminal class who might otherwise feel comfortable attacking you.


Again, cops carrying, according to you guys, deter criminals. They are open carrying. It seems reasonable that anyone carrying should be identified. That is a fair compromise. For the paranoids who need guns to feel safe, the rest of the public should have that piece of information. Open carry is honest, concealed carry dishonest.


William said...

Alton Sterling did not have a right to bear arms. If Ms. Garza believes that she is more at risk from cops than from felons like Alton Sterling, then her stupidity is exceeded only by her bigotry.

Michael K said...

"Open carry is honest, concealed carry dishonest."

More hissy fit. This is the last time I will respond to you on this topic.

Rick said...

Unknown said...
If you had difficulty grasping the author's conclusion as based on the statistics, I can't help you.


It is certainly true you can't help me, or yourself for that matter. While statistics are provided they don't support the author's and your smear. The overall effect was to claim that Mt Everest is big therefore Democrats are racist. When challenged about the causality link you resort to "statistics show it is big". Why not just skip to claiming anyone who doesn't agree is anti-science?

Pathetic.

bagoh20 said...

If I wear a seatbelt when driving, does that mean I'm paranoid. At least carrying a gun can save someone else, as well as yourself. Not carrying makes you incapable of even saving yourself, and it could require someone else, like a cop, to risk their life to save yours. You could consider it irresponsible to not carry in a dangerous place if you can legally.

For someone who takes the safety of their family seriously, it's infuriating that I am forced to be relatively helpless to protect them and myself in Los Angeles and Compton where I work. I have a friend in his mid-fifties who was knocked unconscious just last week at a bus stop by some thugs who wanted his cell phone. He could easily have been killed. People stood around and just watched. It was the second time this has happened to him. The cops were within sight of the assault, but not looking the right way. He told them what happened and they took a description down. That was it. He has no recourse other than moving to a safer place which he cannot afford to do. If concealed carry was common, thugs like this would be the ones in fear and everyone would be safer just because the bad guys don't know it the person they are assaulting or someone nearby might make them pay for the privilege. As it is they have unimpeded fearless ability to prey on anyone they want. The idea that an innocent citizen might be armed is something the thugs don't have to worry about. It's nice of the lefties to protect them like that from the dangers of their chosen profession. They always protect and fear the exact wrong people.

bbkingfish said...

It is frightening that we have tens of thousands of these poor vets walking among us, programmed to kill.

They are returned home by a military that has no further use for them, forever deranged and little more than ticking time bombs in civilian life.

One thing for sure about this guy...he didn't learn the assault tactics he employed in his deadly spree from the Crips. He was trained by America's best.



Dr Weevil said...

Looks like ARM has never heard of plain-clothes policemen, and has forgotten about the FBI, Secret Service, and other non-uniformed law-enforcement agencies. Lots of "cops" and cop-equivalents carry concealed. Ding ding ding! Game over.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
People who think they need a gun to walk safely down the street are psychologically similar to transexuals. They believe intensely that there is physical solution (guns) to a mental problem (paranoia).

It is reasonable for those of us who are not paranoid to expect that the paranoid who are carrying are labeled in some way, obligatory open carry is a fair compromise.

By your criteria, in what situation would concealed carry be prudent?

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger bbkingfish said...
It is frightening that we have tens of thousands of these poor vets walking among us, programmed to kill.

They are returned home by a military that has no further use for them, forever deranged and little more than ticking time bombs in civilian life.

One thing for sure about this guy...he didn't learn the assault tactics he employed in his deadly spree from the Crips. He was trained by America's best.
--------------------------------------------

This guy was a carpenter in the military. Maybe he inhaled to much sawdust.

hombre said...

Recent stats show that about 40% of the murders, armed robberies and ag assaults in the 75 most populous counties are committed by blacks, usually while armed with guns, "but the right to bear arms, it seems, only exists for white people," says the BLM founder.

I read something the other day that went like this: "Lunacy is not only becoming the norm, it will soon be compulsory."

This kind of bullshit promulgated at face value by the mediaswine is really getting old.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

AReasonableMan said...

For the non-insane it is useful to have a clear marker of the insane.

That is why we appreciate you commenting here.

jr565 said...

"I think it’s too simplistic of a conversation. Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right. It is a part of a culture that is largely protected by special-interest groups like the N.R.A., but the right to bear arms, it seems, only exists for white people. When black people have arms, legally, they can still also be killed at the hands of the police."
It hasn't been established yet that Philando even had a permit. There's not even the suggestion that Alton Sterling had a permit.
And if he thinks that people who own guns who are white cant be killed by cops, he's mistaken. That happens to whites all the time.
Its a logical fallacy to assume that because a black person is killed by cops even though they have a permit that this is in any way a usual occurence or that the same thing can't happen to white people. Is the assertion based on facts, or did he just pull from butt?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

AReasonableMan said...

If someone is carrying a lethal weapon I think it is fair that everyone around them is aware of this fact.

My hands are registered as lethal weapons. I mostly go with open carry, but in the winter I sometime have them concealed.

Harold said...

There was a story out of Paris that one cafe targeted by the Muslims didn't end up full of slaughtered people because the unlawfully armed gangsters inside decided not to become victims. Story rapidly disappeared down the media collective memory.

Michael K said...

If concealed carry was common, thugs like this would be the ones in fear and everyone would be safer just because the bad guys don't know it the person they are assaulting or someone nearby might make them pay for the privilege.

There are some things you can't explain to certain people who have an ideological blind spot.

pdug said...

The pro-life nut job who shot up an abortion clinic was probably also "about a lot of things"

mockturtle said...

The Left is simply heeding Chicago mayor and sage, Rahm Emanuel, "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

IMO, protecting the Second Amendment might just be the most crucial issue of this campaign, with SCOTUS appointment second.

Oso Negro said...

Clarification- Open carry of rifles and shotguns has been legal in Texas forever. Open carry of pistols just became legal in January of this year, but to carry a pistol openly, you must hold a concealed carry permit. To exercise my new rights as a Texan, I ordered up a brace of Ruger Redhawks in the preferred .44 magnum and now have an Old West gunbelt on order. I will be packing openly JUST BECAUSE I FUCKING CAN. By way of further note, all the concealed carry instructors recommend carrying concealed to "maintain tactical advantage". I guess their lives are more like an episode of "24" than mine. In truth, the biggest pleasure of carrying openly is causing progressive transplants to wet their pants. It's Texas, for God's sake. If you don't like to see men carrying guns, go the fuck home.

Mary Beth said...

Open carry is honest, concealed carry dishonest.

By that logic, commenting using your name is honest, a username is dishonest.

hombre said...

MichaelK: "There are some things you can't explain to certain people who have an ideological blind spot." (12:31)

I don't know if the statement you quoted is correct, but if you are implying it is incorrect, please say how you know that.

mockturtle said...

but to carry a pistol openly, you must hold a concealed carry permit

Sorry, I don't get this. I'm not in TX [as a rule] but have a 'concealed carry permit'. My understanding is that I can carry my revolver hidden on my person if I so choose in states that have reciprocation but that 'open carry' is legal in some states but not others, aside from CCP. I believe that, in AZ, open carry is legal w/o a permit.

hombre said...

pdug said...
'The pro-life nut job who shot up an abortion clinic was probably also "about a lot of things"' 7/11/16, 12:37 PM

Interesting. Do you think pro-lifers shoot up more stuff than, say, pro-aborts or, say, Democrats.

Which group do you think kills more people? Never mind, a 50 million dead head start is too big a clue.

mockturtle said...

Good one, Mary Beth at 12:41! :-D

Michael K said...

"if you are implying it is incorrect, please say how you know that."

I wasn't.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AReasonableMan said...

I thought gun owners would welcome the opportunity to be 'out and proud'. You love your guns, you take them everywhere, show them off. Obligatory open carry, the next frontier.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

It is rarely about class diversity. While people are born with intrinsic biases, class diversity mongering including racism has to be ignited and stoked.

As to self-defense, there are rights and responsibilities. A person can legally (excluding Pro-Choice religious/moral law) and morally elect to abort another human life when they pose an immediate threat to their life, not wealth, pleasure, leisure, and narcissistic indulgence (a la abortion rites). If that right is exercised for a probable or lesser cause, then there is a review of circumstances which may incur punitive measures (up to and including abortion).

That said, people need to be productive members of their community. Welfare (i.e. non-contributory entitlements) for purposes other than smoothing (i.e. temporary mitigation) destroys the human spirit and social fabric. The focus of reform should not be redistributive change, but revitalization. The focus of class reconciliation should be assimilation and integration.

AReasonableMan said...

Oso Negro said...
I ordered up a brace of Ruger Redhawks in the preferred .44 magnum and now have an Old West gunbelt on order. I will be packing openly JUST BECAUSE I FUCKING CAN.

all the concealed carry instructors recommend carrying concealed to "maintain tactical advantage". I guess their lives are more like an episode of "24" than mine. In truth, the biggest pleasure of carrying openly is causing progressive transplants to wet their pants. It's Texas, for God's sake. If you don't like to see men carrying guns, go the fuck home.


This guys got the right attitude. You other pussies should get with the program. America, Fuck Yeah.

rich hahn said...

>>>Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them

Sterling was a felon so he was illegally in possession of a gun. He resisted arrest while in possession of a firearm. He is dead because he was stupid. If he would have gone to the ground when instructed to do so, he would likely still be alive.

No proof that Castile had a permit to carry.

Darrell said...

He was a member of a group called "crips"

The Crips are a streetgang, like the Bloods. In addition, I would suspect that they wouldn't take kindly to someone calling themself a Crip if they weren't a bona fide member.

mikeski said...

LarsPorsena said: "Truncated Y axis?? How so? Please explain."

ARM said: [nothing else]


ARM's explanation is correct. (i.e., there is no explanation.)

I will make it simpler for the mathematically-challenged, though.

The graph compares the FL violent crime rate to the national violent crime rate. If they were the same, the graph would be a horizontal line at 1.0.

The violent crime rate in Florida in 1987, the year CC was finally passed, was about 1.75 times higher than the national rate. That was the highest point on the graph. Since then, it has fallen to only 1.26 times the national rate. So, FL is still "dangerous", relative to the country as a whole, but it's improving drastically under its CC law.

(Comparing to the national rate should subtract out any national trends, and focus on the effects of Floridian legislature/behavior/demographics/etc.)

hombre said...


Unknown: "Compared to the overall population, a black man is twice as likely to be killed by the police as a white man."

According to BJS/FBI data, since the mid 1990s, 40%+ of cop killers are black men who comprise about 6% of the population.

Ill bet even you can see the implications and they have nothing to do with police racism.

TosaGuy said...

"It is frightening that we have tens of thousands of these poor vets walking among us, programmed to kill.

They are returned home by a military that has no further use for them, forever deranged and little more than ticking time bombs in civilian life.

One thing for sure about this guy...he didn't learn the assault tactics he employed in his deadly spree from the Crips. He was trained by America's best."

Someone certainly has an axe to grind.

Dude was a hammer-and-saw engineer in the Army Reserve. He picked up a weapon and 40 bullets once a year to qualify at the rifle range and was in a unit in Afghanistan that didn't have a combat mission. Such personnel only get very rudimentary combat training to the point that he would learn more by going to a paintball range. An infantryman he was not.

EMD said...

"I thought gun owners would welcome the opportunity to be 'out and proud'. You love your guns, you take them everywhere, show them off. Obligatory open carry, the next frontier."

ARM - Do you know any gun owners? Honest question.

Lauderdale Vet said...

> Unknown: "Compared to the overall population, a black man is
> twice as likely to be killed by the police as a white man."

Even the NYTimes disagrees with that.

AReasonableMan said...

EMD said...
Do you know any gun owners?


See, you get the problem. Without obligatory open carry how do I know exactly how many gun owners I know?

EMD said...

"See, you get the problem. Without obligatory open carry how do I know exactly how many gun owners I know?"

I asked you a fucking honest question and you respond with an asshole answer.

narciso said...

yes, he wasn't james barr from one shot,

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/george-zimmerman-not-guilty-blood-on-the-leaves

when you get things consistently wrong, there's only one solution, promote them to editor,

Gahrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...

Unknown: "Compared to the overall population, a black man is twice as likely to be killed by the police as a white man."

True...but false.

In 2012, black people were less than 14% of the population, and yet 30% of the people killed by police that year were Black...sounds bad and disproportionate right? Until you look at these numbers....

In 2012, Black people committed 49.4% of the murders, even though they made up just 13% of the population.

In 2012, Black people committed 32.5% of the forcible rapes, even though they made up just 13% of the population.

In 2012, Black people committed 54.9% of the robberies, even though they made up just 13% of the population.

In 2012, Black people committed 34.1% of the aggravated assaults, even though they made up just 13% of the population.

The only three categories where the rate of Black crime was similar to the percentage of Black population were DUI, liquor law violations and drunkenness.

It gets worse...after you account for age and gender, it is between 3% and 4% of the population, young Black men between the ages of 14 and 44, who are committing most of the violent crime

Want to solve the problem of Black men getting killed by police?...solve Black youth violence

AReasonableMan said...

EMD said...
I asked you a fucking honest question


Calm down, it is hard to tell who is asking an honest question and who is setting up some bullshit rhetorical device.

Yes I know gun owners. One of my sons used to shoot at a range, using a friends rifle. I have even been hunting. I am not the slightest bit troubled by guns themselves, the owners are another matter entirely. The current mania for guns is insane, together with the increase in wealth inequality and the decline in educational standards we look more and more like a banana republic every day.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

"special interest groups "

lol you misspelled "civil rights advocacy group"

Rick said...

EMD said...
I asked you a fucking honest question and you respond with an asshole answer.


Reminds me of the story ending "Of course I bit you, I'm a snake".

Quaestor said...

bbkingfish wrote: It is frightening that we have tens of thousands of these poor vets walking among us, programmed to kill.

Programmed bullshitter following the program.

narciso said...

so clearly, the somelives matter camarilla, which have have certain resonances with islamist elements, are putting up a smoke screen,

Michael K said...

I see the conversation has deteriorated, even though I thought that was not possible.

Off to do better things.

Brando said...

"Compared to the overall population, a black man is twice as likely to be killed by the police as a white man."

The real question is the likelihood of black vs. white people killed by the police when considering the number lawfully arrested by the police. For instance, is a black person that the police have an APB on more likely to be shot by the police than a white person that the police have an equivalent APB on? Are blacks committing violent crimes at a higher rate than whites compared to their portion of the population?

Plus, there's a big difference between "shot by a jumpy cop who mistook going for your wallet for grabbing a gun" and "shot by a cop when trying to attack the cop". It's important to consider individual circumstances, and not just raw stats. Remember when everyone talked about what a tragedy it was that "kids were getting shot in the streets" until you realize that "kids" meant mostly 16 and 17 year old gang members, not some child walking to the corner store to buy milk.

As for whether race is a factor in any of this, I haven't seen any evidence supporting that (and skewed stats may suggest a correlation between race and death by cop, but that doesn't prove that race was a factor). It doesn't mean some of these instances aren't tragedies that we should try to prevent, but tossing race into the discussion is pointlessly inflammatory without better evidence.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

AReasonableMan said...

I thought gun owners would welcome the opportunity to be 'out and proud'.

Do you also thing that gays would welcome the opportunity to be 'out and proud' by being legally required to wear rainbow patches sown to their cloths?

How about Jews having the opportunity to be 'out and proud' in Nazi Germany?

AReasonableMan said...

You are attached to a gun like you are to your sexuality or religion? The problem goes deeper than even I thought.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The Dallas murderer is complicated and complex, nuanced reasons for his murderous acts. We all need to think deeply about the issues this murder brings up.

The Charleston church murderer is simple and not complex. He is just a typical violent racist white person, and all you other white people better apologize and start changing your ways.

Unknown said...

Worth listening to.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/11/485559307/listen-on-guns-dallas-police-chief-tells-legislators-do-your-job

On Guns, Dallas Police Chief Tells Legislators: 'Do Your Job'

In a dramatic moment, he urged legislators to do their jobs and propose new laws to combat gun violence.

"We're doing ours. We're putting our lives on the line," Brown said. "The other aspects of government need to step up and help us."

2. He also touched on the problem he sees with open-carry laws, which he said were increasingly challenging for law enforcement. "We don't know who the good guy is versus who the bad guy is if everybody starts shooting," he said.

3. Brown also got personal, explaining that he became a police officer to help Dallas through its crack epidemic. And he urged protesters to leave the picket line and join the police force. "We're hiring," he said. "We'll put you in your neighborhood, and we will help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting about."

4. Brown was asked how he processed the protests against police as a black man: Chief Brown Talks About His Experience As A Black Man




Earnest Prole said...

Fifty years ago in California the Black Panthers asserted their constitutional right to openly carry firearms. Conservative white Californians convinced then-governor Ronald Reagan to repeal that right. If progressives had an ounce of strategic sense these days . . .

Big Mike said...

Want to solve the problem of Black men getting killed by police?...solve Black youth violence

You have to understand that ARM has no experience whatsoever with poor Blacks. When one says that young Black men need to be taught not to respond violently to a perceived "dis," he doesn't know what a "dis" is, nor does he think he needs to know. Me, I sent my sons to a majority-minority elementary and middle school. They are, if anything, even more conservative than I because they know what young Black men are really like.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

AReasonableMan said...

You are attached to a gun like you are to your sexuality or religion?

No, I was just showing what a moron you are for referring to compelled exposure as an opportunity.

mockturtle said...

When one says that young Black men need to be taught not to respond violently to a perceived "dis," he doesn't know what a "dis" is, nor does he think he needs to know.

About as effective as Swedish girls wearing wrist bands saying, 'Don't Touch Me', to dissuade Muslim immigrants from raping them.

Oso Negro said...

Blogger mockturtle said...
but to carry a pistol openly, you must hold a concealed carry permit

Sorry, I don't get this. I'm not in TX [as a rule] but have a 'concealed carry permit'. My understanding is that I can carry my revolver hidden on my person if I so choose in states that have reciprocation but that 'open carry' is legal in some states but not others, aside from CCP. I believe that, in AZ, open carry is legal w/o a permit.


Don't feel bad, it is a bit odd. The country is a mosaic of gun laws, and you will want to be sure to comply with the version wherever you happen to find yourself. Check the reciprocity of Texas with your state before you come.

Gahrie said...

Want to solve the problem of Black men getting killed by police?...solve Black youth violence

The answer to solving youth violence is to restore the two central institutions of the Black community that have been destroyed by the Left over the last 80 years...the family and the church.

Up until the 1920's, 85% of Black children were raised in two parent households, and Black illegitemacy was under 20%.

Then the Left and the Progressives took control......

Moynihan warned us 50 years ago........

Quaestor said...

The problem goes deeper than even I thought.

Even you, ARM? A becoming humility is not part of your make up, is it?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I am attached to the right to self defendse,as a fundamental right, just as I am to the right to freedom of expression and religion, ARM (also fundamental rights).

If that is a problem for you, then, yes, the problem goes quite deep indeed, in America.

robother said...

Jelani Cobb: "Conservative critics placed the blame for these deaths at the feet of Black Lives Matter—despite the sniper’s statement, and the evidence thus far, that he had worked alone." According to the Dallas Police Chief, the killer said he was inspired by BLM.

Quaestor said...

ARM explains his "out and proud" open carry policy to the masses.

walter said...

Garcia:
I think it’s too simplistic of a conversation. Both Alton Sterling and Philando Castile had guns on them, which is part of their Second Amendment right. It is a part of a culture that is largely protected by special-interest groups like the N.R.A., but the right to bear arms, it seems, only exists for white people. When black people have arms, legally, they can still also be killed at the hands of the police.
--
Yeah..thanks for enlightening the "conversation"

Unknown said...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-doctor-treated-dallas-cops-violence-stop-article-1.2707316

During an otherwise straightforward press conference, a black doctor who treated dying Dallas police officers nearly broke down in tears Monday as he pleaded for an end to racial violence.

"This killing, it has to stop," Dr. Brian H. Williams, a trauma surgeon at Parkland Memorial Hospital, said during the afternoon conference.

"Black men dying and being forgotten. People retaliating against the people that are sworn to defend us. We have to come together and end all of this."

I understand the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement, but they are not the problem," he said.

The problem is open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country. And I think about it every day, that I was unable to save those cops when they came here that night. It weights on my mind constantly."

David53 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AReasonableMan said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...
I was just showing what a


But your argument only has any force if you are as attached to guns as to your sexuality and religion.

holdfast said...

Apparently the racist terrorist's CO recommended that he be released from the military with a dishonorable discharge, but that recommendation was ignored. Had he been dishonorably discharged, he would have been a prohibited person.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

AReasonableMan said...

Quaestor said...
ARM explains his "out and proud" open carry policy to the masses.


I liked the crowd scene. Was that shot in Texas?

walter said...

"Black men dying and being forgotten."
See Chicago..Obama's forgotten springboard. but there';s so little political capital for Dems to wring out of that.

mockturtle said...

Check the reciprocity of Texas with your state before you come.

Oh, yes. I know the reciprocity of every state in the Union with my CCP because I travel around the country all the time. It would be nice if there was general reciprocity but there are always going to be holdout states like CA. BTW, I feel safer in TX than in most states.

Michael said...

ARM

Most "banana republics" are nations where gun owners are criminals. I will grant you that our educational system is a disaster and anyone who can afford a private education for their kids but chooses public schools is doing them a huge disservice. The decline in educational standards is largely due to a progressive desire to have outcomes equal for all cohorts. The latest, as you have seen, is a devolution from grading, requiring homework to be completed or done on time, etc. Etc. These are not, by the way, conservative ideas.

walter said...

Blogger Michael said...
The decline in educational standards is largely due to a progressive desire to have outcomes equal for all cohorts.
--
Yes..that pervasive desire to social engineer out so-called inequiteies..paired with formalized shielding of educators from accountability--See last WEAC charter before Act 10. i.e. "No questions..we got this"

Ignorance is Bliss said...

AReasonableMan said...

But your argument only has any force if you are as attached to guns as to your sexuality and religion.

I picked extreme examples to show the absurdity of equating compulsion with opportunity. The argument still has plenty of force.

Browndog said...

The girlfriend of Castile posted pics of herself smoking a blount in her car with her kid in the backseat. Neck tattoos and flashing gang signs...having a good 'ol time.

Now, she's being paraded around by the national media like she's the 2nd coming of Rosa Parks. Yet, not a word about the cop that had his spine crushed by BLM dropping concrete on the cops at the Minneapolis BLM "protest."

So, yea, I'm pretty much done having a "conversation" about race.

EMD said...

"The current mania for guns is insane"

Increased sales = mania?

You're seeing what you want to see. Most gun owners I know respect them as tools and sporting gear. Not so much as religious objects deserving of beatitudes.

Jon Ericson said...

Hi, Just a technical note.
There are at least two "Unknowns" still commenting after last night's purge.
At least one of them is rational.
Could the rational one(s) please indicate this somehow, like signing "Joe Blow" at the bottom of his/her comment?
Just tossing that out there for the rational "Unknowns".
I realize there may be a technical reason for some commenters to be stuck with the name "Unknown".


AReasonableMan said...

Earnest Prole said...
Fifty years ago in California the Black Panthers asserted their constitutional right to openly carry firearms. Conservative white Californians convinced then-governor Ronald Reagan to repeal that right. If progressives had an ounce of strategic sense these days . . .


The NRA has the race wars angle locked up already. All the Dems have left is the sensible middle. Different times. Different times.

Char Char Binks said...

@Browndog

I predict Lavish/Diamond Reynolds, or whatever stripper/whore name she goes by, will soon face criminal charges, possibly for robbery, even for the murder of Philando Castile.

Michael K said...

The gun mania, which is of course all about banning them and trying to make gun owners into psychiatric cases, is acquiring the trappings of a religion. Just as global warming has become the new religion of the left.

The left is mostly made up of ahistorical youngsters who have no idea, as people my age do, that high schools once had shooting sports programs. That kids brought rifles to school.

I was given a Japanese .25 calibre pistol by a returning vet after WWII when I was probably 8 years old. I first fired a Colt .45 model 1911 when I was 10.

Some might say, "Oh that was in a rural area," but I grew up in Chicago. South Shore Country Club, which was on the lake shore six blocks from my house had a skeet shooting range along one section of their beach.

Only those who think history began in 1965 are pushing gun control.

walter said...

"All the Dems have left is the sensible middle."
Oh my. At least some comic relief...

Michael The Magnificent said...

I will grant you that our educational system is a disaster and anyone who can afford a private education for their kids but chooses public schools is doing them a huge disservice.

Actually, our educational system is just fine. American Asians and American Whites score quite well internationally. It's Blacks and Hispanics that drag down our average score.

2009 PISA Reading Scores, broken down by country and American ethnicity:
Shanghai-China scored first at 556
USA Asians scored second at 541
USA whites scored seventh at 525
USA average scored 19th at 500
USA Hispanics scored 43rd at 466
USA Blacks scored 49th at 441

And likewise, when blacks (13% of the population) commit over half of all of the violent crime in this country, all by themselves they cause the violent crime rate to double.

Lefties like to say that we have a violent crime problem, when actually, we have a blacks-committing-violent-crime problem.

But, you know, ignore all of that and dismiss me as a racist. Because clearly, I am the problem (as is the data which shows the truth).

madAsHell said...

Ruger Redhawks

Pearl handles?

machine said...

back in my day...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

hombre said...

ARM: "The NRA has the race wars angle locked up already. All the Dems have left is the sensible middle."

Two sentences tying in nicely to my "lunacy is becoming the norm" comment at 12:01.

Todd said...

AReasonableMan said...
Earnest Prole said...
Fifty years ago in California the Black Panthers asserted their constitutional right to openly carry firearms. Conservative white Californians convinced then-governor Ronald Reagan to repeal that right. If progressives had an ounce of strategic sense these days . . .

The NRA has the race wars angle locked up already. All the Dems have left is the sensible middle. Different times. Different times.
7/11/16, 3:49 PM


LOL! Wow, what a fever!

The NRA has one and only one purpose. To ensure that anyone legally allowed to own a firearm, can. Period.

Unlike the multitude of fake anti-2nd groups that are mostly funded by Soros, the NRA is an actual grass-roots group that is entirely member funded.

The group you meant was the Democrat party. They are the ones that disarmed blacks in the past and are trying to disarm everyone (but criminals) in the present.

buwaya said...

"2009 PISA Reading Scores"

For international comparisons I would use math scores only as it is extremely difficult to make comparable tests across languages.

There is later PISA/OECD data, and TIMMS may be better for comparable scores.

This is the TIMMS 2011 summary. There is a 2015 TIMMS but AFAIK the results have not yet been released. Note the US does rather well, though far from the nosebleed heights of East Asia.

http://timssandpirls.bc.edu/timss2011/downloads/T11_IR_M_Chapter3.pdf

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