June 26, 2016

Wexit.

"Conservative columnist George Will told PJM he has officially left the Republican Party and urged conservatives not to support presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump even if it leads to a Democratic victory in the 2016 presidential election."

111 comments:

hoyden said...

What is Will for? The triumph of evil and criminal? He can throw spears but who is he aiming for?

Ann Althouse said...

@hoyden

You made me think of an alternate post title: Triumph of the Will.

Laslo Spatula said...

Link issue?

I am Laslo.

buwaya puti said...

Snob.

coupe said...

Interesting, he wrote off Mrs. Clinton in 2014: "A Clinton candidacy make sense if, but only if, in 24 months voters will be thinking: Let’s have a third Obama term."

This after writing: "Now that two of the last three Democratic presidencies have been emphatically judged to have been failures..."

Obviously, he hates Clinton: "But . . . people are bored of her and feel like she has been talking at them forever. . . . She is a dull, grating, inauthentic, over-eager, insipid elitist with ideological blinders yet no particular vision and is likely to be reduced to running on a dubious promise of experience and competence while faking idealism and hope — a very common type of presidential contender in both parties, but one that almost always loses.”

I think he is taking a bow. He isn't even going to vote for President this year, except for maybe a Senator and a couple of Congressmen.

Which is the way I vote. I haven't voted in a Presidential election since my disastrous vote in 1972. Well, actually I voted absentee a few times, but no one counts absentee ballots unless there is a tie.

I do vote in the Primary though, as the Democrats give you a free carton of cigarettes outside the voting center, and I can trade this for some Cognac. Quid pro Quo...

Comanche Voter said...

What a preening little Potomac putz. My granddaddy taught me never to trust a man who wears a bow tie, and boy howdy was he ever right when it comes to George Will.

mpeirce said...

It's been a very clarifying election season. The establishment/elitist republicans are being flushed out of hiding into plain sight.

traditionalguy said...

Does this mean he is no longer the sole Republican Conservative on CNN panels singing anti-Trump choruses. Too bad, so sad.

But CNN has hired Lewendowski. With any luck Lewendowski will pull a Prosser and choke the idiot liberals who continually.interrupt any Trump spox.

coupe said...

The guy who gave Trillions of our treasury to the banks and GM (Paulson) has declared his support for Mrs. Clinton. The man who engineered the collapse of the economy, now wants us to follow him to hell.

If it weren't all so sad I would laugh...

Clyde said...

I'm certain that cutting off one's nose to spite one's face is going to become quite trendy this fall in certain circles.

Bob said...

"Does this mean he is no longer the sole Republican Conservative on CNN panels"

Now he joins the ranks of previous "TV Conservatives" David Gergen and David Brooks.

Maybe CNN should hire Wiener to do a cage match with Lewandowski. They'd mix it up like Tasmanian devils we used to see in cartoons.

David Begley said...

Cry baby and a sore loser.

Not a team guy.

I used to really like Will. No more.

coupe said...

George Will was on a Sunday call-in show on PBS, and boy I dialed the number.

I asked him "which thesaurus his staff uses to write his articles."

It was too much, I blew my milk through my nose.

He paused to think, his stupid glasses fell lower on his nose, and he screwed up his face and said "I don't use a thesaurus" as if I just asked him if he was a pecker puffer.

The host quickly went to the next caller.

I kill myself sometimes... My wife looked at me like she didn't even want to go to church with a heathen that had upset poor George.

Clayton Hennesey said...

I don't think people like Kristol, Erickson, Will, Paulson, et al have a clue that, rather than saving the Republican Party, they have given it the permanent taint of a pariah.

Now the cocktail party conversation will become, "I'm a Republican." "Oh, how interesting. Where's your Dom?"

shiloh said...

Again, when the party of Lincoln is imploding ~ get the hell out of the way!

machine said...

palin...now trump...any wonder?

David Begley said...

And extremely poor judgment by Will.

Will - way better than most - knows what Hillary will do as President on policy. And she is a criminal. She will sell us out in a New York minute.

So Will's statement to the world is that he would rather have a lying criminal as leader of the free world than a guy who might do good.

hoyden said...

I wondered how Republicans became the party of impotent wusses and now I see. Flushing out the elitist/republicans clarifies who supports America and who supports The DC beltway cartel.

Laslo Spatula said...

Pillow Biter protests the Pillow.

I am Laslo.

Ann Althouse said...

"Link issue?"

Thanks, fixed, and wow, I'm surprised anyone felt like they wanted any more of what was the most boring news story I've seen in a good long while.

Ann Althouse said...

@coupe LOL

Amadeus 48 said...

I heard Stephen Moore from Heritage Foundation say the other day that our problems stem from Reagan's decision to pick GHW Bush as his VP instead of Jack Kemp. If Kemp had been RR's successor, we wouldn't have slipped back into policies that promoted crony capitalism instead of economic incentives and growth. Interesting idea. Moore also said that he and others are working on a pro-growth economic plan for the Trump campaign.

I think George Will has jumped too soon. It is only June.

Achilles said...

@ 7:45 coupe,

If they have archives i want that clip.

Achilles said...

Amadeus 48 said...

"I think George Will has jumped too soon. It is only June."

George Will has masters to please. Brooks was the first pet "conservative" for the NYT. Now the Wapo has at least 2 but I haven't read it in a while.

Will has just outed himself is all. His job all along was to make sure republicans lost even after they won elections. That has been the republicans job lately is to fool voters into thinking there was a choice.

JCC said...

Well, goodbye.

I think this is both stupid and premature.

I also think that, presuming Trump and Clinton end up being the actual candidates, one need to hold your nose and vote Trump, if for no other reason that the Supreme Court, as a single issue, is sufficient to vote Republican. Clinton Court appointees can haunt us and remive our rights for decades to come. See William O. Douglas as an example of the kind of damn-the-law, I-feel-the-need kind of person we should fear.

Personally, I am not convinced the Trump intends to actually contest the election or really wants to win. He may be positioning himself to benefit from the campaign, which he fully intends to lose, and the post-election benefits he feels he can reap.

CarlF said...

It was getting too uncomfortable for him at the cocktail parties in NY and Washington. As the house Conservative, he had to take a stand to show his patrons he was still acceptable to liberals.

MadisonMan said...

Too much Drama is right.

As if anyone cares who Geo. Will votes for.

Michael K said...

"I heard Stephen Moore from Heritage Foundation say the other day that our problems stem from Reagan's decision to pick GHW Bush as his VP instead of Jack Kemp. "

I've thought that for years.

Will has been a one man fifth column for a long time, or at least since he urged Obama to run in 2008.

That worked out well.

Because he is young, is just two years distant from a brief career as a state legislator and has negligible national security experience, an Obama presidential candidacy could have a porcelain brittleness. But if he wants to be president -- it will not be a moral failing if he decides that he does not, at least not now -- this is the time for him to reach for the brass ring. There are four reasons why.
First, one can be an intriguing novelty only once.


Thanks, George.

JAORE said...

Good Will punting.

Feh.

coupe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cubanbob said...

George Will is the epitome of elitist jerk off that Trump supporters can't stand; a man that would rather bring down the temple over his head rather than do something that isn't his way.
George Will would prefer that the country be run by a grifter, criminal and traitor than a blowhard businessman.

coupe said...

I was just thinking, that at age 75 this is probably George Will's last election, and since Trump has divorced himself from Will's paper, that only leaves the party of Nancy Pelosi, and John Lewis.

mikee said...

Reagan did not leave the Democrat Party, the party left him.
George Will, however, left the Republican Party membership when the Republican Party leadership decided to follow the Democrat Party into elitist, authoritarian government.

Sorry, George, that you decided to stick with the elite who destroyed the party rather than the people who actually comprise the party.

Chuck said...

Comanche Voter said...
What a preening little Potomac putz. My granddaddy taught me never to trust a man who wears a bow tie, and boy howdy was he ever right when it comes to George Will.

I can see, how someone who actually has concerns about the wearing of bow ties, might not care for George Will.

traditionalguy said...
Does this mean he is no longer the sole Republican Conservative on CNN panels singing anti-Trump choruses. Too bad, so sad.

Will is a Fox News contributor. And before that, he was an ABC regular. When is he on CNN? He may be on CNN, and soon, I suppose. It could be Will's punishment for having taken on FNC Papa Bear Bill O'Reilly, in Will's syndicated column and then to O'Reilly's face on-air, over O'Reilly's (or the ghostwriter's) errors and suppositions in "Killing Reagan."

I love George Will. I don't plan on renouncing my Republican registration, and I don't think that Will's renunciation was based on Trump alone, but rather on his displeasure with the Republican leaders who chose to endorse Trump. For me, it is still as important as ever that we elect Republicans up and down the ballot. (Trump hardly counts as a Republican.) But Will is living by his statement that the Trump "collaborationists will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party's reconstruction" after a Trump electoral disaster. And I respect him and admire him for that.

Will, shockingly, can deliver an intelligent and literate speech. Trump can't deliver an intelligent and literate sentence.

I'm curious about all of the Will-haters here; I can list a dozen position statements from Trump that are plainly offensive. Can anyone do that with George Will? You'll have a very hard time, based on policy, criticizing Will. It's only his personal distaste for Trump, and not his public separation from Trumpism, that seems to upset everyone. Will's a great conservative on policy.


David said...

Barf.

Skipper said...

Losing with honor...year after year after year...

Darrell said...

Chuck loves George Will.
Figures.

MikeR said...

'But Will is living by his statement that the Trump "collaborationists will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party's reconstruction" after a Trump electoral disaster. And I respect him and admire him for that.' Sheesh. What a great idea: Take all those Americans who are really really concerned about certain issues and throw them away. Because you know better that other issues are more important.
I would much rather have had immigration on the back burner for this election, and Marco Rubio be the candidate; I expect he would have beat Clinton. But that's no reason for me to have a tantrum. Trump is obviously worlds better than Clinton.

William F Buckley famously said that he would much rather be ruled by 2000 random people than by the faculty of Harvard. He meant it. George Will apparently didn't; he doesn't trust outsiders to do a decent job if they try.

Anthony said...

Blogger mikee said...
Reagan did not leave the Democrat Party, the party left him.
George Will, however, left the Republican Party membership when the Republican Party leadership decided to follow the Democrat Party into elitist, authoritarian government.


That is, unfortunately, the way of things. The people who go into government -- and their attendant throne-sniffers -- whether liberal/conservative or Democrat/Republican are the ones who like their power and privilege over others. I'd like to think it's not a losing game but it probably is.

Chuck said...

William F Buckley famously said that he would much rather be ruled by 2000 random people than by the faculty of Harvard. He meant it. George Will apparently didn't; he doesn't trust outsiders to do a decent job if they try.

George Will, banned from speaking at some campuses on political correctness grounds, doesn't need any lessons concerning political correctness on campus. And Bill Buckley never thought much of Donald Trump. Perhaps because Donald was a Democrat for much of his life when he was known to Buckley.

EDH said...

Here's a look inside George Will's inner monologue.

David Begley said...

Just saw Will with Chris Wallace. Said GOP is no longer conservative. Something about Paul Ryan's endorsement of Trump.

Incoherent.

Chuck said...


I'm gonna go way out on a limb and suggest that there aren't any George Will pictures like this:

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2016/news/160314/donald-hillary-800.jpg

Sydney said...

The country would be better off if everyone was unaffiliated. These political parties become too much of a cult. Like a secular religion.

Harold said...

Republican elites rejected Ted Cruz, thinking Trump was a flash in thte pan. They were wrong, so Trump wrapped it up. And, the elite have always demanded the rabble rally behind their candidate- if he won, but haven't rallied around insurgent winners who defeated the establishment candidates.

And they're doing it again, with higher stakes. This upcoming presidential election determines the makeup of the Supreme Court. Leave that in the hands of Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife, and we can kiss our Constitution goodbye. Not voting for Trump, at this point, is voting for her. Ill be filling in the ballot, however reluctanly, for Trump.

This is the ultimate lesser of two evils election. Trump is the lesser, and it's not even close.

wholelottasplainin' said...

He may be a great fan and historian of baseball, but politically Will throws like a girl.

Chuck said...

Harold: You gripe about Republican elites. But don't you have just a little envy for the Democratic Party? Their elites managed to make sure their moonbat candidate didn't get the nomination. Now they will probably win the White House for the next four years, and the Supreme Court for the next 30 years. Something to be learned there.



Roughcoat said...

Reminds me of the SCTV bit with Rick Moranis playing Will as a nancy-boy type who actually did throw (and run) like girl and who burst into tears when the tough boys made fun of his sissy Little Lord Fauntleroy bow-tie and demeanor. Hilarious! Does anyone else remember that!

Real American said...

Throw the ball, George.

grayjohn said...

I told the GOP piss off while Bush was in office George. You're late to the game and not impressing anyone.

mockturtle said...

The GOP needs Will like Trump needs a tutu.

Chuck said...

Well when most of the Trumpkins were munching Oxycontin and filling out their disability forms, George Will was throwing a strike at Wrigley Field.

Sorry for this factual interruption of the Trump circle-jerk.

From MLB.com:
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/47149716/v31892229/phichc-george-will-tosses-first-pitch-at-wrigley

jr565 said...

If its not his party then he really shouldn't tell people in the party how to vote. He left the party. Therefore, the party doesn't care what he has to say.

jr565 said...

Chuck wrote:
Well when most of the Trumpkins were munching Oxycontin and filling out their disability forms, George Will was throwing a strike at Wrigley Field.

THis smear is from the Kevin Williamson David French wing of the republican party. They have utter contempt for white middle class working class voters and would call them all oxy users.
If you have such contempt for your base (the Republican base is white working class) do you wonder why Trump is getting all their votes?
This strikes me as as elitist as Obama saying "They cling to their guns and religion" from on high.
Republicans really should not be faling into this trap and calling their base junkies. But you did.
Just don't expect those same "oxy contin" adicts to vote for your elitist rich guy who is going to sell out their jobs, while Kevin Wiliamson says its their fault and to get a U-Haul.

F off.

Michael K said...

Chuck continues his slur of Republican voters, but I have promised I will not mention chuck's problems.

"You'll have a very hard time, based on policy, criticizing Will. It's only his personal distaste for Trump, and not his public separation from Trumpism, that seems to upset everyone. "

Will opposed the Iraq invasion rather vociferously.

He also was quite enthusiastic about Obama's foreign policy.

The last 11 years have been filled with hard learning. The 2003 invasion of Iraq, the worst foreign policy decision in U.S. history, coincided with mission creep (“nation building”) in Afghanistan. Both strengthened what can be called the Republicans’ John Quincy Adams faction: America “goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

That has worked out well.

Obama is right that there is much to rethink.

Yes, that was written in 2014 when ISIS was still "the JV team" and Will still thought Obama was brilliant.

That's chuck's George Will. Also, Will has been a Cub fan for 40 years, which should tell you about his wisdom on winners.

Laslo Spatula said...

This is only Part One of George Will's 'Look At Me, I Matter" performance.

Part Two: he comes out Gay, but says he is always a Top, never a Bottom.

Part Three: He comes out as a more-than-occasional Bottom.

Part Four: the Fourteen-year-old boy is Lying.

I am Laslo.

Michael K said...

I should add that the Iraq War had mixed results until Obama threw it away.

Bush was forced to do something about Saddam after 9/11. We have had lengthy discussions about the decision at Chicago Boyz.

I summarized them at my own blog.

The short version is that the sanctions were collapsing and the Saudis were pressing us to leave Saudi. Had we done so in 2002, we would have looked like we were being defeated by Osama. Saddam would have broken out of the armistice a victor.

The status Obama inherited in 2009 was far better than what we would have had with no invasion.

Bush did make major errors, chief among them putting Paul Bremer in charge instead of Jay Garner who had done well with the Kurds.

Chuck said...

Michael I think it is good and wise for you to have stopped imagining that I have "problems" of which only you seem to be aware. Who the hell other than you might know what they are?

Just as it is good and wise that I have stopped suggesting that I'd take an old man like you to the woodshed for your libel. It's good all around, isn't it?

Chuck said...

I can't wait, for Sean Hannity's take on George Will exiting the Republican Party. Because Hannity has proudly been a non-Republican independent and/or member of the New York Conservative Party for years. Hannity knows a thing or two about quitting the Republicans.

Michael K said...

Chuck, I am not the only one here who has noticed your problems. Go in peace.

CatherineM said...

This is such a weird thread.

I don't know why anyone in this thread believes Trump will pick good Supreme Court justices. He changes his mind day to day. You bash Will who wrote in support of GOP since Goldwater when Trump is about as Republican as Michael Bloomberg who only ran on that ticket because it was the only spot in NYC open to him in 2001. At least Bloomberg is actually self made, creative, built and ran (and runs again) a real successful business (and built a great building!), not just a brand.

You bash Will for some words that weren't ant-Obama, yet Trump used to praise Hillary to the heavens! Trump said she was "great" "brilliant." In 2008 Trump said she would make a great POTUS.

https://youtu.be/o4lFrk4PbVg

https://youtu.be/N5A02pNcGHs

Trump is smoke and mirrors because he doesn't really want to be POTUS. He wants to expand his brand. His kids are another thing. Ivanka for AG? Don jr for SoS?

Does anyone believe Trump when he says he is fielding hundreds of requests from "important" people "begging" Trump to pick them as his VP? Really?

I agree with Bret Stephens and I loathe HRC.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/17/wsjs_bret_stephens_hillary_clinton_as_awful_as_i_find_her_is_a_survivable_event_im_not_so_sure_about_trump.html

Big Mike said...

I have been disdainful of George F. Will ever since meeting the man back in the late 1980's.

Michael K said...

"Trump is smoke and mirrors because he doesn't really want to be POTUS."

I assume you are well acquainted with the man. Tell us more.

Jim said...

So many things can be said about George. But as usual Laslo says it best. and Coupe too.

Joe said...

George Will in August 12, 2015 column:

"So, the Republican National Committee should immediately stipulate that subsequent Republican debates will be open to any and all - but only - candidates who pledge to support the party's nominee."

Richard said...

As far as George Will is concerned this is all about himself. He rather the country went down in flames rather than he no longer be perceived as an intellectual. If he were to support Trump, or even not actively oppose him, it would destroy his reputation with all of the “right” people. He can’t let that happen since his reputation is so much more important than what happens to the country.

Chuck said...

I'll try to help you out, Michael. Here's what you should do.

First, say that you are sorry, for tossing out baseless personal attacks about mental health and needing medication. Admit that you were out of line, and that you are sorry, having thought more about it.

Then, promise to quit it. After that, fulfill your promise by stopping it. No more passive-aggressive mincing mentions of personal "problems" that don't exist.

That's what you should do. But you can do whatever the fuck you want. And so will I.

Jonathan Graehl said...

Chuck is whack.

Will, a quality scribe and speaker, has a thing. He advises Republicans to submit. I won't psychoanalyze that or the bowties.

Jupiter said...

Chuck said...
"Harold: You gripe about Republican elites. But don't you have just a little envy for the Democratic Party? Their elites managed to make sure their moonbat candidate didn't get the nomination. Now they will probably win the White House for the next four years, and the Supreme Court for the next 30 years. Something to be learned there."

Do I understand correctly, Chuck, that your problem with Trump is that you believe he won't win? And you support Hillary because you believe she will? Wouldn't it be simpler if you just wait for the election, and support whoever wins it?

William Chadwick said...

Goodbye Second Amendment, then.

Michael K said...

"But you can do whatever the fuck you want. And so will I."

Yes but I suggest you watch the other commenters and ask yourself how you appear to others.

It is not my concern if you look a fool.

Jupiter said...

I have read some astonishing things in the comments to Althouse's blog. Some astonishing in their insight, others in their idiocy. I have often seen commenters lavishing abuse upon each other, deserved or otherwise. But this is the first time I can recall one commenter threatening another.

Chuck, you owe an apology to everyone here.

Chuck said...

No, Jupiter; you do not understand correctly.

I do not support Mrs. Clinton. I don't vote for Democrats. And I don't think that Mrs. Clinton is merely an undesirable choice; I think she's a terrible, vulnerable candidate. A candidate that any solid mainstream Republican could beat. Which makes this situation all the more regrettable.

And my problem with Trump is NOT that he will not win; my problem with Trump is that I think he is an ignoramus, and damaging to the Republican Party. I think everyone who has a kind word to say about Donald Trump is compromised, and a drag on the party. I want nothing to do with Trump or any of his supporters. I don't want Trump inside the Republican Party and I couldn't care less about his supporters. Trump disdained the Republican establishment and Republican "donors." I feel fully entitled to the same disdain toward the Trump movement, such as it is.

People can say that Trump is the lesser of two evils, and I would not argue. He may in fact be the lesser of two nasty evils. I just will not say anything nice or supportive about Trump.

I am not predicting that Trump will lose. But Vegas is making that prediction. 4 to 1 (or more) that Mrs. Clinton wins.

It would be simple for me -- and easy, in fact -- to wait for the election and support whoever wins it. Easier still would be to wait for the election and NOT support whoever wins it. Just be a cranky critic, with no rooting interest. But I am staking my personal identity on being opposed to Trump. I don't ever want to have to defend Trump. Not in arguments with my liberal friends, and there is no defense of Trump with my conservative friends. I don't have any defense at all, with anyone, for most of the hairbrained things Trump comes up with.

Bill Peschel said...

Let's recap the Chuck vs. Commenters battle:

Chuck demands: "I'm curious about all of the Will-haters here; I can list a dozen position statements from Trump that are plainly offensive. Can anyone do that with George Will? You'll have a very hard time, based on policy, criticizing Will."

Michael K points out that Will, like a good conservative, urged Obama to run.

Michael K also points out that Will "opposed the Iraq invasion rather vociferously" and also "was quite enthusiastic about Obama's foreign policy." And we all know where that has gone.

Chuck points out that Trump posed with Hillary while Will did not and that Will does not throw like a girl. Then he devolves into personal attacks.

As for Will's judgment, he also had this to say in 1974 about a potential candidate:

"He’s never demonstrated substantial national appeal, his hard-core support today consists primarily of the kamikaze conservatives who thought the 1964 Goldwater campaign was jolly fun."

He was talking about Reagan.

For the 1980 election, he preferred true William F. Buckley conservatives like Howard Baker or George Bush for president.

Michael said...

Tighten that screw, Chuckster.

Michael K said...

Bill, good pickup. I didn't look that far back.

Will is a pretty idiosyncratic commenter.

I have enjoyed his columns and he does get tons of abuse from the WaPo commenters but some of his opinions are just odd.

Chuck said...

Bill Peschel:

The notion that George Will "supports" the Obama foreign policy is a personal fantasy of Michael K, and is not supported by Will's own writing.

And only Michael K could be so dense as to presume that George Will supported an Obama candidacy. Read the 2006 column by Will urging Obama to run. It's no endorsement. And it is a near-indictment of Hillary Clinton.

Do I really have to explain this stuff? Maybe, for Michael K.

Oh, and George Will actually voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Chuck said...
I'm gonna go way out on a limb and suggest that there aren't any George Will pictures like this


Counterpoint:

NYT: Pres. Elect Obama dinner party at George Will's house with conservative columnists

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I like George Will--his opinion of libertarianism is too low but he has clear, consistent positions and expresses himself well. I'm not surprised that he's followed his convictions nor that they've lead him to oppose Trump.
I could be wrong but I think Will is one of those conservatives who believe that Mexican/South American immigrants (who are mostly Catholics) should be natural conservatives and therefore illegal immigration isn't such a big deal. Someone like that should definitely oppose Trump.

Chuck said...

Hoodlum Doodlum:

I thank you for that link. And I was aware of that dinner party, as you were.

Surely, that party wasn't one of support for Mr. Obama. It was the prelude to what was certainly going to be a contentious term in office. Are you suggesting that Will was compromised by that evening? Did he withhold criticism of Obama after that? Did Krauthammer?

Notice that unlike Donald Trump's multiple and sizeable donations to the Clinton Foundation and Clinton campaigns (in addition to Donald and Fred Trump's donations to the Jimmy Carter campaign in 1980), no one would ever make the mistake that Will and Krauthammer were ever rooting for Obama. They sat down to a dinner in which they all got to know each other before going to battle. And they probably wouldn't be having many more dinners. The terms of engagement were clear.

And I find that a lot more interesting, than flaming each other via Twitter.

Counterpoint: rejected.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

SNL: George Will Sports Machine

Again, I like George Will. He's wrong on the 2A but he's right on most things. I've purchased 2 of his books. His columns about his son are touching.

Honestly I think it's a good thing for people to divorce "conservatism" and "the GOP." Not good for the GOP, of course.

Michael K said...

"only Michael K could be so dense as to presume that George Will supported an Obama candidacy."

He urged him to run. I don't think I am the "dense one"

Why so confrontational all the time ?

Some here are but they are mostly on the left. Odd reaction to a right/libertarian group.

Jupiter said...

Chuck said...
"No, Jupiter; you do not understand correctly.

... my problem with Trump is NOT that he will not win; my problem with Trump is that I think he is an ignoramus, and damaging to the Republican Party."

Really? That's it? An ignoramus? And an annoyance to Mitch McConnell? Not much of an indictment. Did he ever drown a kitten, do you think?

I think he's fairly cluey, actually. Utterly inconsistent, of course. Kind of a loose cannon. But the Republican Party has become the party of politicians who feather their nests while colluding in the destruction of the country. The problem with a loose cannon is that it is equally dangerous to both sides. Exactly what the situation calls for.

Michael K said...

The problem with a loose cannon is that it is equally dangerous to both sides. Exactly what the situation calls for.

There are only a few on the GOP side that I would be unhappy to lose. The majority is nice but they have done nothing with it but feather their own nests.

M Jordan said...

The real reason Will left the Republican Party is it became too uncouth for him. First Palin, now Trump. Will, a man who has never worn blue jeans and has contempt for those that do, is first and foremost an elitist.

I realize the present polls aren't showing it, but my deep sense, backed by the primary vote turnout and by Brexit, is that elitists are about to be turned out of Washington in this coming election. This is what a populist wave does, wash away the sand castles the elites have built. It's always temporary because they'll be back, but for the moment, I wouldn't be one to declare "I'm an elitist" at the present moment, which George a will has clearly done.

Chuck said...

M Jordan said...
...

I realize the present polls aren't showing it, but my deep sense, backed by the primary vote turnout and by Brexit, is that elitists are about to be turned out of Washington in this coming election...


The polls wouldn't show such a thing, because such a thing hasn't happened in modern history and won't happen in 2016.

House incumbent reelection rates hover well above 80%, and more recently above 90%.

Senate incumbent reelection rates hover above 80% and haven't fallen below 80% since 1988. If reelection rates fall down to 60% in the U.S. Senate, it will be a disastrous losing election for Republicans. I think you will be wrong, but I'd be really afraid if you were right.

Historical rates:
https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/reelect.php

Chuck said...

Michael K, you keep telling people that George Will urged Obama to run, as if somehow Will endorsed Obama. He didn't. Will was coldly observing the early Barack Obama Phenomenon. I'll let readers judge:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/13/AR2006121301901.html

There was never a George Will endorsement of Obama. Not in 2008, not in 2012. Anybody who thinks I am wrong is welcome to point to a link that will correct me on the record. You cannot do it. Will has been a regular and reliable critic of the Democrats and their president.

Michael K said...

Chuck, we seem to disagree on what Will said.

Because he is young, is just two years distant from a brief career as a state legislator and has negligible national security experience, an Obama presidential candidacy could have a porcelain brittleness. But if he wants to be president -- it will not be a moral failing if he decides that he does not, at least not now -- this is the time for him to reach for the brass ring. There are four reasons why.

Quote from your link.

I'm just a simple surgeon. I'm sure you can explain it. There is more.

The electorate is on its tiptoes because Obama has collaborated with the creation of a tsunami of excitement about him. He is nearing the point when a decision against running would brand him as a tease

And more.

The nation, which so far is oblivious to his orthodoxy, might not mind it if it is dispensed by someone with Obama's "Can't we all just get along?" manner. Ronald Reagan, after all, demonstrated the importance of congeniality to the selling of conservatism.

Let others choose who is correct

Chuck said...

Michael, Will was making observations about Obama's prospects. He does that. He comments about politics. On all sides. Where in any of Will's columns does he express a preference for Obama over McCain? (And don't cite the criticisms of Palin. That doesn't count.) Where did Will express a preference for Obama over Romney?

Since 1964, until 23 days ago, Will was a registered Republican! What the fuck is your point?

JCC said...

George Will's position is incoherent. He cannot make a rational case for supporting HRC, and can only say about Trump, "I don't like him." Well, I think many share that opinion about the Donald, but there are really only 2 candidates, and we don't get to vote for some hypothetical ideal candidate from a fictional TV show, kind of like Father Knows Best for government. We're stuck, as far as we know now, with the guy with the bad hair.

Will is an elitist, no doubt. Although I have always enjoyed his writing, I have disagreed time and again with his positions. He is an aristocrat among the proles, and if you somehow missed that, you weren't paying attention. He had Buckley's veneer and cleverness without his purity, perhaps.

Claiming the Republic will survive an HRC presidency and HRC USSC picks, and in 100 years, who will know (to paraphrase Will), is just, frankly stupid and beneath WIll to suggest. How about when guns are illegal and hate speech is a crime? Some one will surely know. But Will can rest easy in his grave, his honor intact, because he refused to bend. That's just great.

Will is one of the reasons the Republicans have invented Trump. The party power structure, the theoreticians sat and sulked - a perfect description of George Will BTW - while Harry Reid ran roughshod over Congressional Republicans, who laid down without a whimper. Then, finally with a majority, the GOP again made deal after deal with the Dem minority. Meanwhile, our country put up with transgender bathrooms, millions of immigrants, 50% of families who paid no taxes, free cell phones and food stamps advertised on TV, stagnant wages, VA scandals, dead troops coming home year after year...we voted people into DC to do something, yet we get a bunch of place holders and do-nothings. Anyway, George Will was establishment, elite, anti-reform. He is as much concerned with the messenger as the message.

Bye George. Enjoy writing some color pieces for Vanity Fair. Angry old conservative blah blah blah.

Big Mike said...

Look, there are many differences between lefies/progs and conservatives besides their politics. For instance lefties tend towards group-think, while conservatives break down into social conservatives, religious conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and several other flavors of conservatism.

But for me, the critical difference is that lefties/progs are willing to settle for part of the pie when they can't get the whole pie, because they expect to get the rest of it over time. Translated into politics, they will rally behind the Democrat, even if that Democrat won't give them everything they want, because they never stop pushing. Conservatives want it all right this very minute or they'll go off in a corner and not vote or waste their vote. So they get nothing.

George F. Will is in this category. Besides, he'll have more "tut tut" columns he can write if Hillary wins.

Big Mike said...

Will is an elitist, no doubt. ... He is an aristocrat among the proles, and if you somehow missed that, you weren't paying attention.

@JCC, you should meet him in person! Bad as he was when I met him thirty years ago, I doubt he's gotten any more comfortable with riff raff scum such as us ordinary Americans.

hombre said...

Given a choice between the survival of the Republican Party, maybe the country, and the elitist cocktail party circuit, Wills is true to form.

The Cracker Unknown said...

Chuck invokes "registered Republican" like it's some kind of order of warrior-monks. True conservatives don't give a shit about "registered Republicans" They care about reversing some, any really, of the shit that liberals have heaped upon our country while registered Republicans like Will looked on, picking their asses with scholarly detachment.

Chuck said...

I invoked "registered Republican" because Michael K was trying to make some incoherent point about Will urging Barack Obama to run for president. As if Will were a semi-secret Obama supporter.

I invoked "registered Republican" because it will seem pretty weird for George Will to get hammered by the Trumpkins for bolting the party, when Trump suck-up Sean Hannity left the Republican Party years ago.

I invoked "registered Republican" when people on this comments page started rambling on about how they can think of very few Republicans whom they'd like to see winning in November.

I just wish that all of the morons who voted for Trump in the primaries were truer to their convictions about not liking the GOP. And stayed the fuck out of Republican primaries.

Chuck said...

And oh by the way; George Will today calmly explained to Chris Wallace that it was a couple of weeks ago that he quietly and privately registered Independent because he just thought that with Republican congressional leaders endorsing Trump, the party was insufficiently conservative for his tastes.

BudBrown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jon Ericson said...

Bow tie daddy dontcha blow your top
Everything's under control
Bow tie daddy dontcha blow your top
'cause you think you're gettin' too old
Don't try to do no thinkin'
Just go on with your drinkin'
Just have your fun, you old son of a gun
Then drive home in your lincoln

--Frank Zappa (guitar, piano, lead vocals)
Billy Mundi (drums, vocals, yak)
Bunk Gardner (woodwinds)
Roy Estrada (electric bass, vocals)
Don Preston (retired)
Jimmy Carl Black (drums, trumpet, vocals)
Ian Underwood (piano, woodwinds)
Motorhead Sherwood (soprano, baritone saxophone)
Suzy Creamcheese (telephone)
Dick Barber (snorks)

Michael K said...

"What the fuck is your point?"

Chuck, have you ever considered anger management ?

How is your blood pressure.

I do worry about you. Not as much as my dog but some.

Get help, chuck, get help.

mockturtle said...

George Will would have sneered at Lincoln.

Jon Ericson said...

Hah!

JCC said...

@ Big Mike



@ Chuck

"I just wish that all of the morons who voted for Trump in the primaries were truer to their convictions about not liking the GOP. And stayed the fuck out of Republican primaries."

I'm not sure what all the previous posts are about, although I suspect I vaguely disapprove. But I sure agree with the spirit of this. Lots of people bought into the bashing and the anger, voted for Trump without much thought, and now we're stuck with a guy who is totally unfitted for the job, and may not even be trying to win. But Will's refusal to associate with people who actually drink Bud and eat hot dogs is beyond foolish. I never thought I would see in my lifetime a President more harmful to this nation than Jimmy Carter, and we elected the current buffoon to prove me wrong. I fear a Clinton presidency more than a Trump presidency. Trump will just be embarrassing. Clinton represents a threat to our freedoms I feel, because she will continue to re-engineer this country to maintain the Democrat cash machine. She is a totally corrupt and cynical person with no limits to her avarice and power seeking. That Will would subordinate his country's interests to his wounded pride says something about him, I fear.

Michael K said...

" Trump will just be embarrassing."

I think we could even agree on this, chuck.

I am not a Trump partisan. I would much rather a conventional candidate had adopted a couple of his positions. Muslims and illegal immigrants, chief among them.

Immigration in general is an issue, including H1B visas and Obama's Executive Order that allows illegals to enlist in the US military. I didn't even know about that until I saw it today.

mockturtle said...

I would much rather a conventional candidate had adopted a couple of his positions. Muslims and illegal immigrants, chief among them.

But that was the problem. The conventional candidates pandered, apologized, backpedaled and otherwise showed us all what a pussy bunch they are. These guys don't stand for anything except re-election.

rcocean said...

In the 70s Will called himself a "Scoop Jackson Democrat" and was against Reagan in 1980. He supported Dole, Bush I and II, McCain and Romney but suddenly Trump is too "liberal" for him.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

richardsson said...

Like many people this year, I think George Will's future is behind him. Last time I actually watched him was on David Brinkley's show on ABC. People now have so many sources of news, the main function of television news is to show us fires and car chases. I'm not surprised by his decision and I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever.

Michael K said...

"These guys don't stand for anything except re-election."

Yup.

This is why we have Trump and I will vote for him.

Jon Ericson said...

Arf!

JamesB.BKK said...

Some of Wretchard's words: Grexit, Deutschit, Departugal, Italeave, Czheckout, Oustria and Buh-byelgium. https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2016/06/24/forget-the-lifeboat-its-the-iceberg-that-counts/

tim in vermont said...

Chuck is upset that his rice bowl is under attack. I didn't vote for Trump in the primaries, but I am not going to work to get Hillary elected the way Chuck is.

elcee said...

Michael K:
"Bush was forced to do something about Saddam after 9/11...The short version is that the sanctions were collapsing..."

Right. See the answers to "What were President Bush’s alternatives with Iraq?" - "Why did Bush leave the ‘containment’ (status quo)?" - "Why not free a noncompliant Saddam?".

On the law and facts, President Bush's decision for Operation Iraqi Freedom was correct.