March 1, 2013

"We were obsessed with capturing and killing human targets on lists and ignoring goals and missions."

"I believed if the public, particularly the American public, could see this it could spark a debate on the military and our foreign policy in general [that] might cause society to reconsider the need to engage in counter-terrorism while ignoring the human situation of the people we engaged with every day."

Bradley Manning, pleading guilty.

44 comments:

Jason said...

Because E-3s totally understand the big picture.

Shouting Thomas said...

Since I'm an Old Dawg, stories like this mostly make me wonder why a 25 year old man wants to sacrifice himself on the altar for a problem that is as old as mankind.

We make the oddest decisions when we are young, and then we are stuck with the aftermath.

Who doesn't know "the true cost of war?" My family has been paying it for generations.

Mitchell the Bat said...

Is it too soon to begin agitating for a pardon?

LarsPorsena said...

Somebody else is spoon-feeding him this agitprop.

furious_a said...

His chain of command should be before a Review Board. E-3 Manning was able to bring a portable storage device (cover -- listening to music) into a restricted area, plug it in to a restricted network and download GBs of classified information nightly.

why a 25 year old man wants to sacrifice himself on the altar for a problem that is as old as mankind.

Because E-3 Manning was p*ssed off about the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy. The things people do for love...

E-3 Manning was p*ssed off about

Chip S. said...

Mmm, goals and missions. Good stuff.

I prefer George C. S. Patton Scott's mission statement:

I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.

Aridog said...

So the fey little shit cops to 10 charges...but he is still to be tried for 12 more serious charges. Say hey, he got his name in the papers again, though

I'm waiting for the charges to be filed against those higher ranks who enabled Manning in the first place...the 1st and 2nd supervisors, the "approving offical", and the database administrator(s), at a minimum.

**Roles & Permissions** ...who are the lazy negligent shit-for-brains jerks who gave the omnibus access to a fucking PFC? How the fuck was his "need to know" defined? Answer: It wasn't. At a minimum they all were derelict in the duty to perform the oversight.

"Roles" determine the "need to know"...okay, what "role" did a PFC, any damn PFC, operate in that included access to secure State Department information? Role approvals for DOD and DOS Db access would require at least 3 levels of approval, with one cross agency variety....e.g., approval of a dual hat access.

"Permissions" are determined by "Roles" and are dispensed individually for various operative functions...e.g., Dept of State and DOD Databases would require at a bare barest minimum 3 levels of approval, including one cross agency, for EACH individual function.

Today's topic of "clusterfuck" applies well to the Database administration in Manning's case. Roles & Permissions appropriate for a theater commanding four star General were approved for a fooking PFC. W-T-F ?

I happen to be intimately familiar with the DOD Db access process...apparently no journalists have a clue, or don't want to know. I have no sympathy for Manning, none, but he's not the only one culpable in this...and the one's you/we don't know are still dangerous.

Aridog said...

Dang...Furious_A essentially beat me to it! :-))

Chip S. said...

Aridog, that is some alarming info. I wonder if there are any "reporters" left who'd be interested in following up on it.

cubanbob said...

I believed if the public, particularly the American public, could see this it could spark a debate on the military and our foreign policy in general [that] might cause society to reconsider the need to engage in counter-terrorism while ignoring the human situation of the people we engaged with every day."


I believe if the American people could vote on his punishment it be death by hanging.

Shouting Thomas said...

You guys don't seem to be aware that you can buy a 32 Gb flash drive that is the size of your fingernail.

Security is not possible.

Robert Cook said...

"Because E-3s totally understand the big picture."

The "big picture" is easy to understand if you look right at it: we're killing people indiscriminately, for no reason, en masse, with impunity.

Shouting Thomas said...

The "big picture" is easy to understand if you look right at it: we're killing people indiscriminately, for no reason, en masse, with impunity.

Oh, well, who isn't?

That's sort of the history of the world.

The real objective, for the individual, is to avoid being either the canon fodder or the sacrificial martyr. Let the others do the killing, dying and martyrdom while you have a nice lunch with a glass of wine with a pretty girl. In Paris or San Francisco, if you can manage it.

Robert Cook said...

"Somebody else is spoon-feeding him this agitprop."

He said, condescendingly.

Rather, Manning has a clear understanding of the immorality that we're engaged in, and he felt an obligation to try to reveal to the many that we're just engaged in wanton slaughter over there.

Jim said...

In a truly just society, Manning would have already been executed for treason.

I was listening to Amy Goodman on Democracy Now this morning. She and Manning's lawyer were positively distraught at the injustice that this brave patriot was facing. I wish that they could be on prime time television 7 nights a week so that the American people could be aware of the Left's support for traitors.

Shouting Thomas said...

Rather, Manning has a clear understanding of the immorality that we're engaged in, and he felt an obligation to try to reveal to the many that we're just engaged in wanton slaughter over there.

Good for him.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the day playing music in Woodstock. Old Dawgz rehearsal and performance coming up. Playing for Mass on Sunday.

What's his "clear understanding" getting him? Cookie, do you really think there's a soul in this world who doesn't know about the "wanton slaughter?"

Robert Cook said...

Manning is hardly a traitor, but a true patriot. His actions indicate he truly believes in all the high-flown rhetoric we use so profusely but live up to so rarely, about "truth" and "justice" and "the equality of all men" and "the due process of law" and our being "the greatest nation on earth," (no, "in the history of the earth").

And yet he saw--and felt compelled to reveal--that we are just as dirty and lawless and murderous as anyone else. He's a braver man than anyone in the top command.

edutcher said...

"The only good (one) is a dead (one)"

- Philip Henry Sheridan

Shouting Thomas said...

And yet he saw--and felt compelled to reveal--that we are just as dirty and lawless and murderous as anyone else.

Welcome to the club. Who doesn't know this? You expected... what?

He's a braver man than anyone in the top command.

Yeah, but they're making more money and getting prettier girls.

Robert Cook said...

"What's his 'clear understanding' getting him? Cookie, do you really think there's a soul in this world who doesn't know about the 'wanton slaughter?'"

Sure, most Americans don't know about it. Oh, they know we're killing people, but they believe the lies that we are able to discover with pinpoint accuracy who the "terrorists" are--without our ever having any definition provided or criteria explained to inform us how we designate someone to be a "terrorist"--and that we are also only killing--with "pinpoint accuracy"--those designated to be "terrorists."

Most Americans don't seem to know or to want to believe that we're just slaughtering people--men, women, children, animals if they're in the vicinity--just lobbing bombs at public places and justifying our strikes with the ad hoc definition (courtesy of Obama) that any males of a certain age in a given territory are, unless proved otherwise post mortem, "terrorists."

Most Americans seem to believe that we're "defending" ourselves against "bad guys" who are bent on our destruction and who will (more ludicrously) succeed in our destruction unless we first kill them, every last one of them. (As if we would know when we had killed the very last one, or would even want to kill the "very last one." This bogus "war on terror" is a boon to the authoritarians in government and to the military, and to military contractors and armaments manufacturers and so on. It's a two-fer: There's money being made in the deaths of humans and the government is simultaneously able to aggrandize its absolute power and freely destroy our civil liberties, even the idea that we have them or should have them, because we acquiesce to their destruction.)

edutcher said...

Robert Cook said...

Somebody else is spoon-feeding him this agitprop.

He said, condescendingly.


By George, I think he's got it.

The little twerp put a lot of guys necks on the line because he couldn't bring Bruce and Sidney to the NCO dance.

Manning is hardly a traitor, but a true patriot.

Him and Lurch.

They pipe this stuff in all day down at the Daily Worker, don't they?

Robert Cook said...

Yes, Edutcher, I do work at the Daily Worker and they pipe this stuff in every day. How did you know?

Shouting Thomas said...

Cookie,

I'm an avid reader of Fred Reed, who made his bones as an intelligence and military writer.

The real story behind the "surgical strikes" and "pinpoint accuracy" is that our army is uncommitted and useless.

Which is verified by the results.

The problem I have with you is that you seem to think that our opponents are any better.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

"And yet he saw--and felt compelled to reveal--that we are just as dirty and lawless and murderous as anyone else."

Considering America is the most powerful country in history (militarily and culturally) do mostly to the contours of time (i.e. we don't "control" as much land as an empire would, but we have nukes and subs and guns that didn't exist when large empires existed and hence we are stronger than them) it would appear to me America is the most benevolent and altruistic country in the history of the world, considering we haven't surpassed according to our ability other countries in terms of killing and lawlessness.

William said...

There's nothing more annoying than a martyr for a cause you don't believe in. And beyond this, I don't think Manning ever consciously took on the role of martyr. He was hoping to get away with it. It was just happenstance that he got caught. Those helicopter pilots were exposed to far more risk than he was......The worst atrocities in these countries are not committed by American forces. I would sentence Manning to organizing for gay rights in a Syrian refugee camp.

Aridog said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aridog said...

Shouting Thomas said...

Security is not possible.

Please read my comment at 9:09 AM. Perfect security may not be feasible, however, a great measure of it can be achieved by incremental management of *Roles & Permissions* vis a vis access to information. Individuals can be assigned R&R's appropriate for their immediate expertise or function, without having access to everything relating to anything.

In way over simplified terms, say: the guy recording tactical vehicle mileage doesn't need to know the cost per mile, and the guy compiling cost/mile figures doesn't need to know why the miles were driven.

It is not a new concept....it was applied in the Manhattan Project long ago.

Finally...ITE can be set up to NOT transmit/print/copy information to CD, DVD, or Thumb Drives, what ever the capacity. Further more, in most Army facilities the ITE is set to log out an operator, and shut down processes if an operator has not done a manual operation for 30 minutes. Sometimes even less.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

If there was any justice in this world this treasonous little shit would already be in the ground. But both the military and civilian are worthless.

And assholes like Cooktard cheer this on. This is the moral equivalent of the Palistinian street trash dancing in the street when they found out about the 9/11 attacks in New York.

Lyle said...

Bradley Manning is a fool.

Rusty said...

NotquiteunBuckley said...
"And yet he saw--and felt compelled to reveal--that we are just as dirty and lawless and murderous as anyone else."

Considering America is the most powerful country in history (militarily and culturally) do mostly to the contours of time (i.e. we don't "control" as much land as an empire would, but we have nukes and subs and guns that didn't exist when large empires existed and hence we are stronger than them) it would appear to me America is the most benevolent and altruistic country in the history of the world, considering we haven't surpassed according to our ability other countries in terms of killing and lawlessness.

But we're immoral. Remember that. Only white European types are heirs to our creed. Everyone else can fuck off.

Synova said...

Fucking ass.

(Sorry... I got NO sympathy. People died. He's personally responsible for the death of real people because of his self-centered moral superiority. But they don't count, I suppose, because brown people only count when they serve your political purpose and moral superiority, and not when you get them killed.)

Bob said...

Bradley, bad news. Your worth to the cause is dwindling. Just ask Cindy Sheehan how this will work out once you aren't useful as a tool. Cindy who you ask?

I say let Bradley be sentanced to work for gay rights in the Pakistan tribal regions.

Synova said...

And Buckley has it right... the proof that we're NOT the evil that Cook loves to think we are is that we haven't taken over the world.

Why not?

We should really "live up" to the slander... and then see what happens.

Bob said...

Aridog, the supervisors of Manning have had administrative justice applied. Poof, so sorry but there is the door. You weren't criminal but just stupid or sloppy. No matter, just go away.

Plus none of us in the Army will ever use a thumbdrive again on a government machine.

Robert Cook said...

"(Sorry... I got NO sympathy. People died. He's personally responsible for the death of real people because of his self-centered moral superiority. But they don't count, I suppose, because brown people only count when they serve your political purpose and moral superiority, and not when you get them killed.)"

Who died as a result of Manning's release of documents to Wikileaks?

Why aren't you as exercised about the many deaths of innocents at the hands of American forces and as a result of our "pin point" (sic) bomb strikes?

The Drill SGT said...

ert Cook said...
Who died as a result of Manning's release of documents to Wikileaks?


- The friendly Afghan villages named in those operation reports as having supplied US forces with Taliban info.
- Likely some of the Foriegn government officials mentioned in US State Dept traffic.

edutcher said...
"The only good (one) is a dead (one)"

- Philip Henry Sheridan


My thought, before I got to yours was:

More Rubble, Less Trouble
- Unk Infantryman

I'm less upset with Manning, who I'd only like to shoot, than I am with Major Hasan, who I'd like to hang after covering him with lard. Why he is still using perfectly good Texas air has to puzzle some Killeen residents...

Robert Cook said...

"'Who died as a result of Manning's release of documents to Wikileaks?'

"- The friendly Afghan villages named in those operation reports as having supplied US forces with Taliban info.
- Likely some of the Foriegn government officials mentioned in US State Dept traffic."


1.) Do we know people in "the friendly Afghan villages named in those operation reports" have died, and as a result of these revelations?

2.) "Likely" doesn't cut it.

Again, given our apparent bankruptcy of care for the innocent victims of our drone bombings, why should Manning be excoriated because his release of documents allegedly resulted in the deaths of innocents?

This last is somewhat of a rhetorical question, btw. I know we don't care about anyone killed in Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or Yemen or anywhere else we have initiated hostilities. This is just posturing on the part of those who wish to hang on Manning the label of "murderer," a label we have claimed for ourselves through our actions for over a decade.

Aridog said...

Bob said...

Aridog, the supervisors of Manning have had administrative justice applied

You mean non-judicial punishment under Article 15, or denial of re-enlistment, or both? Ain't that grand.

"Somebody" at a fairly high level had to approve the access for a PFC to databases not within his occupational specialty functions (his Role). As I've said before I presume it was done omnibus for everyone in that office...e.g., same R & P's as the commander.

Worse yet, I'm not familiar with just **who** manages the ITE for the office Manning was in, but it quite possibly was a contractor, such as Lockheed-Martin does for some offices, through a spider's web of sub-contractors.

Hell, if anything like some of the material and materiel sourcing arrangements, it might be some Kuwaiti "IT's iz' Uz" outfit.

Hooah!...that sound you make when it's time to BOHICA. That acronym might be familiar to some, perhaps Air Force.

SOJO said...

@ST wants to know why they sacrifice themselves?

Going by my relatives - for a job that doesn't involve working at the paint store, which I can understand. With the down economy, even the police and fire departments were on hiring freeze when he hit working age. Now he carries himself like a thug, a gang member, but I can see what he was thinking.

Then another one wanted to fly jets and be an astronaut. He was officer material and just retired at 42 with a huge, huge pension after doing nothing but getting degrees for 20 years. He didn't get to be an astronaut.

The last years, he worked the drone program. I hear through the family grapevine that "oh well, he didn't kill anybody" during his career.

Pffft. Yeah, right. What like personally, on the ground, with a gun? Probably not. From the air? Sure he did. And if by chance he didn't, then he shouldn't get the huge pension that some piece of psychological roadkill down the line deserves.


Go Bradley Manning who discovered true honor.

Synova said...

"Why aren't you as exercised about the many deaths of innocents at the hands of American forces and as a result of our "pin point" (sic) bomb strikes?"

Because we're *honest* about those. Manning is a sanctimonious little prick claiming moral superiority... falsely.

Your continued claim that people don't *know* that bombs kill the innocent and guilty alike is a knowing lie on your part. Nothing Manning "leaked" was particularly revealing about anything other than the personal identities of vulnerable people. He can't even be said to have accomplished anything in exchange for those lives.

Robert Cook said...

"Because we're *honest* about those."

Like hell we are.

"Manning is a sanctimonious little prick claiming moral superiority... falsely."

Where has Manning made any claim to "moral superiority?"

Truth is, he doesn't need to make that claim: his actions prove it.

"Your continued claim that people don't *know* that bombs kill the innocent and guilty alike is a knowing lie on your part."

Not at all. In my experience--not least on this blog forum--Americans continue to deny the truth of our murderous enterprises abroad, and accomodate themselves to our killing by gratefully accepting the government's lies and propaganda regarding those enterprises. Witness your own statement: that our bombs kill the "guilty and innocent alike." How do we know that any of those killed by our bombs are "guilty?" You accept the government's claims to that effect on face value. What makes anyone we've killed "guilty?" What are they "guilty" of? You accept as a given that we're actualy fighting a concerted enemy force intent on...what? Conquering us? Destroying us? The notion is absurd.

If you're right, if Americans are fully cognizant of what we're doing abroad and they approve that, that is a worse indictment of Americans than anything I've ever said. (In fact, it's not American citizens I criticize or deplore for the most part, but those in Washington and in the Pentagon and in the Intelligence agencies aggrandizing their power and in the companies making piles of money on piles of corpses that I abhor.)

Synova said...

The proof of if people "know" or not, Cook, is not that people have the same emotional reaction or the policy reaction to what they know as you do.

Your assumption isn't logically valid.

I consider your reaction to the reality of war to be morally inferior... I think that there are important "truths" that you ignore. But I don't insist that if only someone made you aware of those truths you'd then believe as I do.

But that seems to be your assumption.

Because people don't react the way you do or agree about what is right or agree about what should be done... it's not because they don't know something.

Well, Manning's little PR stunt did jack-all to change anything at all at all... except reveal the names of vulnerable individuals who trusted the US. He betrayed real people on a fundamental level and you believe it was worth it.

Worth it how? It made NO difference.

Why did it make no difference? It made no difference because your base assumption is wrong - people DO know. The "problem" isn't caused by people not having access to the information. Anyone paying attention already does.

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