December 11, 2011

At the Cooper's Hawk Café...



... you can talk about whatever you like.

I like that hawk, seen through the window as I sat here at my desk just now.

101 comments:

ndspinelli said...

They're losing their hunting grounds and coming into toney neighborhoods, looking for little foo foo dogs!

JohnJ said...

We have one that’s taken up residence in our yard. It’s flown away with two squirrels that we’ve seen, and there is a weekly pile of finch scraps & feathers under our feeders. No longer even flinches when we let out the berner.

What a great life!

Rockeye said...

My guess is that the Mead-House is watching Green Bay-Oakland. With luck celebrations (in Wisconsin) shall be in order.

Jason (the commenter) said...

I'm loving this new singer, Lana Del Rey.

edutcher said...

According to The Blonde, if they go after any of our "little foo foo dogs", they're going to become a lot more endangered than they are already, but, snark aside, nd has a good point.

If you have small dogs, don't just let them out there. Keep an eye on them and be ready to go after them, if need be.

The Crack Emcee said...

you can talk about whatever you like.

Then this is what I'm talking about,...

ndspinelli said...

edutcher, a bigger than foo foo dog was killed recently in a toney westside neighborhood of the professor's hometown by a coyote.

And, in Madison, there would be SWAT teams out if you kill a bird or coyote!

Susan said...

Annual bird (species) count days start soon:

Link text

JohnJ said...

“Keep an eye on them and be ready to go after them, if need be.”

Probably good advice.

Cooper’s is only a medium-sized hawk. So we were flabbergasted to see a fat red squirrel hit the ground HARD and be pounced on by our resident Cooper’s earlier in the fall. (We’re guessing it knocked the squirrel out of one of the large oak trees in the backyard.) As we were watching this, I thought to myself “There’s no way he’s gonna fly off with that fat squirrel” …just as he flew off with the fat squirrel.

edutcher said...

ndspinelli said...

edutcher, a bigger than foo foo dog was killed recently in a toney westside neighborhood of the professor's hometown by a coyote.

We've had the same problem here (NE OH) lately.

And, in Madison, there would be SWAT teams out if you kill a bird or coyote!

Here, too, maybe, but those pups are The Blonde's fur children and anything that goes near them is taking it's life in its hands.

HT said...

Ok, once more with feeling.

My humble living space has been invaded five years now by noises coming from below me. Time for action. Legal action. The worst is when people say, you live in a city, what do you expect?

To be continued

(Washington looking good against NE. In 2007, I think we lost by over 50 points.)

HT said...

What a shocker! We just threw the ball to the defense!

Chip Ahoy said...

This bird's emotionless steely gaze is following me wherever I go. Please make it stop.

Kirby Olson said...

HD, I live in a private residence. But since I got married four little children have joined us, each one louder than the others. Enjoy your peace.

HT said...

That is YOUR human noise, though. Huge difference. Huge. Well, now, it's not clear though if they are your biological children, and I'm not sure that makes a big difference or not. It might, in the sense that you would have become acclimated gradually as opposed to bombarded all at once. Human noise is so much different than mechanical noise, most especially mech noise that is *preventable!*

pm317 said...

wow, look at the color of the sky!

HT said...

I am fine with outside traffic. Fine with the weekend drunks in the street, the yelling the horns. *That* is when you may ask, what do you expect, you live in a city. That is expected city noise, and that question is legitimate.

I am fine with hearing the occasional loud music. We all need to let it out sometimes and crank it up. Fine. I am fine with hearing my upstairs neighbor trounce around, on occasion.

Fine, fine, and fine. All that is for the most part HUMAN noise.

Freeman Hunt said...

Yesterday we celebrated our tenth anniversary. It was great.

Neat hawk. I saw one fly over the highway with a snake a few weeks ago.

Pogo said...

Happy anniversary, Freeman, and many more.

Wally Kalbacken said...

Going out on a limb to say that the Packers will roll through the rest of their schedule. Their opponents will fall apart faster than a $3 suitcase.

JAL said...

We have a pair here at the farm. They are around all year, but we don't see much of them in the summer or when there are leaves on the trees.

We can *hear* them though. They have a very distinctive call and sometimes in the warm weather when I hear them, I look up -- and there they are 10,000 feet above the earth (well, you know what I mean) keening.

We enjoy watching them up close in the winter. Our birds who feed at the kitchen window (12 - 15 feet off the ground) don't seem bothered. (Finches -- 'purple' and gold [drabbed for winter], chickadees, tufted titmouse [mice?], random wood peckers on the suet ....)

They and the crow / ravens get into it from time to time. They do not like each other.

Unless your dogs are the size of squirrels edutcher, I wouldn't worry too much. If they *are* the size of squirrels why are they called dogs?

Cool article in Smithsonian on Cooper's Hawks.

Psychedelic George said...

JohnJ--

I saw the same thing, except in my case I watched the squirrel, being held in the talons by the nape of its neck, squirm and thrash so much that the hawk dropped it.

Plus, the hawk picked up the critter on a front yard and was flying across the street and had to lose the extra weight to avoid being hit by a car.

And, after losing a cat, my vet told me they are just right the size for a coyote's meal.

xnar said...

Looks like the hawk flew off with the shocking meat video ad.

I'm hungry...

caplight said...

I changed my avatar to a picture of the hawk that was flying in front of my car for about half a block yesterday as he was carrying a dead squirrel. He settled on my front lawn when I turned into my driveway and there he ate his lunch.

MadisonMan said...

I did see in the local paper that a dog was killed on the west side (farther west than Chez MadisonMan) by a coyote. Haven't seen any reports of birds hauling off pets.

caplight said...

I should mention that my wife took the picture.

Where we live we have coyotes moving in out of the hills into very nice residential areas as well as the occasional bobcat. If any pets get eaten I hope they belong to anti-hunting PETA sympathizers.

HT said...

Conclusion

What I am not fine with is the assumption that it's ok for apartments to be repositories of mechanical noise. Not fine. I am not fine with people who come from the suburbs (most transplants in NW in other words) and in the suburbs would be embarrassed to have brought to their attention that something in their house is causing a neighbor to lose sleep, and who would quickly ask what they can do about it. Not fine with the tendency of people, neighbors, to retreat into irresponsibility by hiding out in their apartments. Not fine with that. No. Living in the city should not mean that we can all act selfishly and at the same time convince ourselves we're civilized, all because we can block people out visually (not bother ourselves with seeing them).

I'll never cease being amazed at how many people come from the suburbs where there is at least some code in existence and throw it out gladly when they get to the city.

Where is the consideration? Where are the manners? Where's the courtesy and the shame?

Good city neighbors are just about the most valuable thing to have. They become your lifelong friends.

Titus said...

Love her Jason.

Thanks for the link.

tits.

Chip Ahoy said...

Neat hawk. I saw one fly over the highway with a snake a few weeks ago

That's a lovely image, Freeman. A flying snake. In companionship with a hawk. Up there in the air.

It's kind of like the Two Ladies of Egyptian myth, the vulture Nekhbet and the cobra Wadjet representing upper and lower Egypt that are attached to a band and together comprise the royal uraeus.

Oh.

In its talons for its dinner! Never mind then, it'll just have to remind me of the Mexican flag.

ricpic said...

I just saw The Descendants and felt nothing, zero zip nada. Did anyone else see the flick? Connect to it in any way whatsoever? There's Oscar buzz and I'm flummoxed as to why.

The Crack Emcee said...

Congratulations, Freeman, "and many morrrrrrre!"

Coketown said...

What I am not fine with is the assumption that it's ok for apartments to be repositories of mechanical noise.

Stand back; I'm about to rant!

I lived in serene peace and quiet for a year in my current apartment. Then, one day about four months ago, some asshole moved in downstairs. He's "disabled" and on oxygen, and his family dumped him here so he could be a burden on me and not on them.

Because he's "disabled," he gets a paycheck from the government to pay for his apartment without working. He spends all fucking day playing World of Warcraft with a subwoofer that RATTLES every apartment above his. My upstairs neighbors came to me asking me to turn my sub down, and then they realized it was the idiot downstairs.

I stayed home sick day a few weeks ago and realized he played video games for 14 hours straight.

Several neighbors have complained to the front office, and the front office won't do anything. The police won't do anything, either, because technically the bass from the sub isn't above the necessary decibel limit. Of course I've asked him and his deadbeat piece of shit asshole children to turn it down, and they turn it down for about two days, then it manages to creep back up over the course of a week.

I'm sure if this douchebag can play video games for 14 hours a day, he could work at a call center.

When I reflect on this asshole's existence, I become more conservative. Under the pretense of helping "the needy," the government enables this idiot to: not work; live independently; host gamer parties every weekend with his 500 watt, two-PC, dual-monitor setup every weekend; and ruin my life with his fuuucking subwoofer, rattling everything I own ALL the time.

And do you think this guy will be the poster-child of "What happens if we cut government spending"? Hell no. It'll be some feeble old woman eating discount cat food inside some refrigerator box. I'm sure if this jerk was exposed for the money-draining fraud he is, the whole country could be right-wing, and I'd get some goddamn peace and quiet.

I hope he only signed a six month lease. Or that somebody smokes within 50 feet of his door, as the sign says not to do, and blows him to smithereens.

ndspinelli said...

Is it just me or have many of the interesting commenters been driven off and this place is getting stale?

Robert Cook said...

I think it's just you; I haven't left.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)


Is it just me or have many of the interesting commenters been driven off and this place is getting stale

I'm still here and so is “J” so I don't know what you're talking about.

9cfea744-c1ca-11e0-ba94-000bcdcb5194 said...

definitely one of the advantages of working from a home office
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pak152/4201692088/in/set-72157623033729948/

LarsPorsena said...

This Tebow thing is getting spooky

HT said...

Thank you for the company Coketown.

You are correct: we are ranting!

And you win the City Victim Olympics, I guess. (I mean absolutely no offense there.) But on the other hand, noise is noise, regardless of the backstory. I can see how people go crazy dealing with it on a constant basis.

I'd like to add that there are plenty of dependency type situations, it isn't just about the government being the sugar daddy, though possibly in apartments in the cities, it is. I speak from personal experience. Slackerliness is slackerliness and it's awful to behold.

I feel for you but you've got NUMBERS on your side, count yourself lucky. Do you rent or own? (I own.) There are RULES about these things. Sometimes decibel levels don't matter, and there is the covenant of ..... something or other. It's not just dots showing up on the ____ometer. You should definitely break out the magnifying glass and read your lease! Or your bylaws and R&R. Do yourself at least that favor, and those around you.

HT said...

My upstairs neighbors came to me asking me to turn my sub down, and then they realized it was the idiot downstairs.

Do you mean, someone TWO STORIES ABOVE the offending renter could hear him?? And do you also mean that the police would do nothing? Really? Did they have a decibel reader with them? It's a real question. I know that police have been called (not by me!) in my building for off-hours and chronic piano playing - at a distance in my apartment, I must admit, it was simply lovely. To be next door I'm sure was another story entirely.

But point being, the police sure did go knock on the pianists door. Sure.

I need more details.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Freeman Hunt: Yesterday we celebrated our tenth anniversary. It was great.

Good news!

HT said...

Prater won that Denver game. I'm still not convinced about Tebow. Cam Newton - he's a freak of nature, and to me he is the real deal.

Tebow - less sure about, despite the wins.

There are some Bears fans here I'm sure, but goodness they are one boring football team to watch. And they're not outstanding. Denver's offense is anemic. Tebow has the instinct to win, but I'm still not convinced. What will they do if/when he gets hurt?

caplight said...

ndspinelli
You know where you can go...I mean for more lively debate and repartee. It's uncensored and unfettered free for all twenty-four seven.

Seriously, I do miss Allie. But I have the enjoyed the break for a day.

caplight said...

Congratulations Freeman! I can't even remember our tenth it's been so long ago. God bless you with many more.

ndspinelli said...

caplight, I'm going to assume for the sake of this discussion your question is serious. We are dependent on the professor for leadership. I'm not going to tout other sites. But, I'm also not going to allow commenters on this site to be marginalized or shit on.

It's obvious this blog means a lot to this professor. She is justifiably proud of it. However, pride is a double edged sword. We have seen the dark side of pride the past week. Hopefully, we'll see the bright side soon. Because as Monty python has often said in song.."Look on the bright side of life."

ndspinelli said...

I like Tebow but God doesn't give a rat's ass who wins a ballgame, nor should he[or her].

HT said...

ndspinelli said...

I like Tebow but God doesn't give a rat's ass who wins a ballgame, nor should he[or her].

12/11/11 7:38 PM


It's important to keep this in mind. I was thinking today after Washington's loss how losing can build character, but it's likely the case that the character building going on now on Washington's side won't translate to any future wins on the football field. It'll happen off field (the benefits). We all want to our side to win so badly. As someone who is irrationally emotionally attached to the greatest team in college football, I wrestle with this and have yet to come to grips with it. It's stupid. It's prideful. It's shameful. Agreed.

The most enjoyable thing for me is watching two teams I'm not emotionally invested in, but who are excellent teams (usually some teams like Indy, NE, Pitt, Baltimore) in a Sunday or Monday night game (Mondays of old, no cable now).

Karl said...

About last week some day, we had a Peregrine Falcon dood sitting on the edge of the year-round bird bath.

I was on my way out door, after kissing Mrs Karl goodbye...when I noticed.

Dug up the Peterson Guide... yep it's a Peregrine (p163). Dood sat at the bird bath long enough ( 15+ minutes) for me to decide I need to leave for work.

Figured He would fly off. Nope. Just gave me a look.

john said...

Something I read here earlier today reminded me of this:

"Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."

I don't know who wrote that. (ee cummings?)

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Cool! Great photo of this bird.

Don't underestimate the 'lowly' seagull my friends. I witnessed a hungry gull swallowing a field mouse in one gulp, alive and whole. Just like it was a peanut M&M. Amazing.

HT said...

Any second now at the Cooper's Hawk Cafe I expect to see another Cooper's Hawk whose eyes follow you around.

JAL said...

slackerliness

Nice Palinism.

caplight said...

I agree with Spinelli on Tebow. Just win the game. God doesn't pick sides in football games. We know this because we have to watch Notre Dame every Saturday. And I might add God(?) just sent Charlie Weiss to Kansas.

However, the way the football opinionators were telling us how Tebow couldn't make it as a QB in the NFL I love what he is doing to make them eat their words.

edutcher said...

JAL said...

Unless your dogs are the size of squirrels edutcher, I wouldn't worry too much. If they *are* the size of squirrels why are they called dogs?

The Blonde has a friend whose poodle was carried off, so she's concerned.

ndspinelli said...

Is it just me or have many of the interesting commenters been driven off and this place is getting stale?

Depends on how you define interesting.

I think some people are waiting out the election as well as the slimers and sophists, figuring when one ends, the others will, too.

WV "sedultra" Ann in her clingy white flannel longjohns.

HT said...

(Don't mind me - I'm just preparing the bed AND the sofa in the event the lovely downstairs person cranks up his mighty mighty mechanical noise machine.)

Palinism? Well, I didn't mean to. Just grasping for a word.

Really, Tim Tebow's making them eat their words? I guess it's hard to argue with Ws, but the way I see it, it is controlled and boring chaos out there. That offense is directionless for the most part, and pretty one-dimensional. I can be convinced otherwise, but I am not seeing a team to be feared (it was, afterall, Chicago's THIRD STRING QB). And again, a pulled hamstring, broken thumb or something more serious, and then what are you going to do?

I like Cam (and I'm a Bama fan). Love the Auburn QBs once they leave the Plains. Love em.

john said...

HT Said - Any second now at the Cooper's Hawk Cafe I expect to see another Cooper's Hawk whose eyes follow you around.

With that opening Chip Ahoy gave himself, I would have expected a peering and flying hawk long before this.

Lem said...

... you can talk about whatever you like.

My hunch is we are trying to be idiots..

somebody (smarter than me) told me that an ideota (Spanish for idiot) is someone with a big idea.

Newt es un idiota!

(there you go.. and there we are)

We are led by idiots.. and we have no idea.

I might as well be pimping Crack ;)

Lem said...

let those of us that hang here understand!

LarsPorsena said...

ndspinelli said...
I like Tebow but God doesn't give a rat's ass who wins a ballgame, nor should he[or her].
------------

Who are you to tell god what to care about?

caplight said...

It's the W's for me. Jimmy Johnson, was positively rhapsodic about his leadership, Michael Strahan was speaking in tongues, Howie was positive but less than the other two. I think he's got a future that the opinionators said he didn't.

I think athletes doing the Jesus thing during a game or after is I think it evokes the same "shut up and sing" in a lot of people like I feel with entertainer who have to talk politics.

The other problem is why don't they thank Jesus when they drop a pass or lose a game?

caplight said...

Idiota! I have yet to watch a debate. I would have to vote for Newt over Mittens. Newt would mop the floor with Obama in a debate. I'd like to see it. I'm not excited about Newt though.

caplight said...

@Who are you to tell god what to care about?

He's ndspinelli. God knows that. How come you don't?

Lem said...

Newt is an idiot.

..and the reason why i like him is because he is MY idiot.

The idiot in the white house has not graduated out of the idiocy that put him there.

My sense is that that's the reason why my tea party welcomes Newt..

Our idiot is better than their idiot..

Even thought we did not necessarily agree to those specific terms.. those are the terms we could only agree to.

I'm not going to say because I don't want to be expose as a rat.

Lem said...

sorry about the link


Nobody will ever this so if you are nobody.. you are welcome.

HT said...

MOTHRA.

Man. I love the bed. I don't want to have to move to the sofa, but it is quieter.

no quiero a Mothra.

Please Mothra, educate your owner.

Lem said...

I have to go.. but I'm going to warn you..

I'm watching you..

I'm doing so because when our host gets upset about suicide.. I think she means it.

I cant say that for anybody else in the web.

madAsHell said...

I am a 12 pound Jack Russell.

I was nearly rabbit meat for an owl on the neighborhood golf course. I think I got a professional courtesy at the last moment. The owl saw my ears, and figured I might have teeth as sharp as talons. The owl flew away.

OK...My Jack Russell doesn't comment here, but the owl story is true. I've lived in the same neighborhood for over 50 years. I never saw raptors as a child. Now, I see bald eagles, red-tails, and osprey EVERY day. And yes, I live well within city limits.

In fact, we have skyscrapers that promote/harbor peregrine falcons. Every law firm lawyer in the concrete canyons can tell you about a pigeon that exploded in mid-flight.

It's not the loss of hunting grounds. It's the realization that they can hunt in the city.

Did I mention the coyotes??

HT said...

I think he's got a future that the opinionators said he didn't.

I don't totally agree. The wrap, wasn't it, was that there's something about his throwing mechanism that is not geared for the NFL. I think that was a pretty good assessment that we are seeing playing out. I haven't checked the numbers but I didn't see a huge rushing day (but check out Cam's overall numbers!) from Tebow. Again, it all comes down to those last few minutes. He's beaten Chicago, Minnesota. And I'll say it again: Chicago with a third string QB. Couple others.

I think given time, this will not pan out. I like him. What is not to like? But at the same time it makes me a little bit sad because I see the future.

Now, prove me wrong!


And I'm not going to talk about the Jesus thing beyond saying that I did not dislike what Bob Costas had to say.

Lem said...

After reading much of Decision Points..

I never got from Obama the sense of immediacy that George W got after 9/11.. and lets not forget Dubya got hammered for not getting Bin Laden.. for this failure and that failure.

In foreign affairs Obama has picked the ripened success of the work that went before him.. But if my reading and my listening is any good, Obama is not leaving anything behind him in terms of success for the US of America.

HT said...

Now, I see bald eagles, red-tails, and osprey EVERY day. And yes, I live well within city limits.

I've heard it's the increase in the rat and mice population.

Ralph L said...

HT, hang a speaker out a window.

HT said...

But if the noise is this loud in MY apartment, imagine how loud it is in his. I don't think he'd hear it. Plus, I am going legal, so I gotta behave. I've tried weaponizing my music (and blender) earlier. Nothing.

It'd have to dangle anyway. I sold my speakers. All I have now is a docking station.

Lem said...

With an Attorney General.. the likes of which..

Obama, our President, is not interested.

HT said...

You know what it is? It's boys. They're either tap tap tapping something into a wall, running a saw, screwing on a squeaky bed, or stomping around. My men have always been successful apartment livers and seemed to know how to behave in a small space without being told (though they chafed, I could tell). But, they are/were older.

Which brings me to what is a large part of the problem (in my case). Real estate here in this medium-sized city that is nothing all that much to write home about, though it has some BEAUTIFUL neighborhoods, is so very overpriced, that people who don't know better (the aforementioned boys) buy or rent the places without checking out the mechanical things in them. And they overpay to such an extend they can't or say they can't then do the necessary repairs to make the small space run like it should.

Peter Hoh said...

Congrats, Freeman.

And thanks for the link, Jason.

madAsHell said...

oh...yeah, you need a 400mm lens.

Peter Hoh said...

My first attempt at a Thai curry soup got favorable reviews from my wife and daughter.

Anyone heard from Palladian recently?

JAL said...

Palladian commented the other day. Can't remember which post. Something serious.

rcommal said...

I have yet to watch a debate. I would have to vote for Newt over Mittens. Newt would mop the floor with Obama in a debate.

WTF? (See sentence one. Then sentence two. Then sentence three.

Scramble the sentences in whatever way, and they'd still come down to this: WTF?)

Carnifex said...

In Russia today we see the end game of what happens when people loose confidence in the veracity, and honesty of theit election system.

When one "feels"like their vote doesn't matter because of electioneering they recourse to violence.

Sort of like what the democrats have been practicing since the Bush-Gore imbroglio in Fla. Looking into the future, politics in America is going to devolve into a WWE Steel Cage Death Match style of event with the side with the most lawyers, and money, 'cause lawyers don't work for free, winning, if that the term one can use for these years long skirmishes of avarice, and hubris.

Good job democrats, good job.

Almost Ali said...

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Carnifex said...

Raptors are beautiful in the fierceness. One of the funniest things I ever saw was when I was deer hunting.

Sitting in my stand on a warm late September morning. I was watching the squirrels scamper around doing squirrelly things. Gathering nuts, burying nuts, chasing each other. All of a sudden all the squirrels ran to the boles of the trees they were in and bear hugged it.

Slow and stately, a large red tailed hawk came gliding through the forest. I watched amazed as it flew with nary a twitch through dense branches I could barely see through.

It landed about 100 yards away. The squirrels that it had by-passed all jumped out on branches and started barking at it in alarm. (for city folk, squirrels bark, howl, and whistle)

Coming out of the sun like the Red Baron another hawk. It swooped down on the squirrels whose backs were turned, concerned with the first hawk. Like a bolt of lightning it darted from branch to branch...knocking all the squirrels off their perches. And just kept going until it reached the first hawk, where it lit.

They sat side by side for a few seconds, then the first one took off again, flying through the trees, scaring the bejeesus out of the squirrels while the second waited for about 30 seconds, then flew off after the first.

I watched them fly out of sight, doing this routine until gone, and remain convinced that this is what passes for a joke for hawks.

HT said...

I like your hunting piece. (But, people who live in the city have lots of opportunities to observe squirrels too.)

Curious George said...

caplight said...
I agree with Spinelli on Tebow. Just win the game. God doesn't pick sides in football games."

I understand this kind of thought from others, espcially spinelli he thinks he's the authority on mot things, but aren't you a pastor?

You must know that Tebow doesn't think God wants or directly helps the Denver Broncos win. Or him. God gives him peace. And comfort. And strength of character. And that allows him to perform on the football field.

So much of sports, especially at the pro level, is in the head. Go to the line in basketball having to make two to tie at the end of game...are you thinking "what if I miss?". Tebow thinks "It doesn't matter, God has a purpose for me".

It doesn't surprise me that he performs so well in "crunch time."

Scott M said...

"Birds of prey know they're cool."

Max said...

Beautiful bird. What boldness. I will be carving (in wood!) these wonderful birds as center pieces for my new clocks...
www.hardwoodclocks.com

ndspinelli said...

Curious, I agree w/ much of what you say. I have a deep faith. I just don't like the preaching and holier than thou shit.

I played football @ a Catholic HS. Our principal, a priest, would say a prayer before every game. It was simple. "Please Lord, watch over ALL the players on the field today and protect them from injury." That's righteous, and I am an expert on everything!

David said...

Happy anniversary to you Freeman, and to the lucky man as well.

Curious George said...

"ndspinelli said...
Curious, I agree w/ much of what you say. I have a deep faith. I just don't like the preaching and holier than thou shit."

Please indicate anything Tebow has done that communicates "holier than thou" or "preaching".

caplight45 said...

@Curious George: "I understand this kind of thought from others, espcially spinelli he thinks he's the authority on mot things, but aren't you a pastor?"

I like to agree with spinelli every once in a while.

When at the end of the game last night TT's first words were, "First of all I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," (quoting from memory) what was he thanking him for? TT is on the record that God doesn't give him wins because he prays. But the statement made it seem that that was exactly what he was thanking Jesus for.

I like TT. He has a compelling life story to me. I think IMO that a lot of the TT-won't-make-it-as-an-NFL-QB was because he was looked at as a goody two shoes. So I am enjoying his sucess immensely. But does he thank Jesus when he loses? Why do we only thank God for touchdowns. Why not for blown plays that hopefully teach us something? What do the Christians on the losing team say?

I thought Bob Costas's half-time piece on TT's faith and playing was excellent but then I usually like what he says and writes.

Freeman Hunt said...

Thank you all for the congratulations. It has been a most excellent ten years.

Freeman Hunt said...

But does he thank Jesus when he loses? Why do we only thank God for touchdowns. Why not for blown plays that hopefully teach us something? What do the Christians on the losing team say?

How does anyone know whether or not Tebow or other players do these things? I think it's not unlikely that they do. I've often heard Christians pray in thanks for their failures or hardships.

Paco Wové said...

"Is it just me"

Yes, it is.

Clutter is down somewhat, which is all to the good.

We see Cooper's and Sharp-shinned hawks in the neighborhood, but not that often. I've always wanted to see one make a kill, but so far the local prey candidates are too watchful. I do find the exploded remains of songbirds in the yard every so often, though.

caplight45 said...

Freeman
Of course we don't know what any player says when he blows a play or loses a game at least we don't if it's not on camera. However, I have never seen a player kneel after a blown play, or thrust his finger heavenward when he missed a tackle.

Here is what Aaron Rogers said about TT's witness when asked:
“Well I started playing before Tim, so these are things I’ve thought about for a long time, and I think one thing that I try to look at when I was a younger player, and I mean, in high school, junior college, and Division I, I was always interested in seeing how guys talked in their interviews, talked about their faith, or didn’t talk about their faith. And then the reactions at time, I know Bob Costas at one point was critical about a player thanking Jesus Christ after a win, questioning what would happen if that player had lost, or do you really think God cares about winning and losing. That’s all to say that I feel like my stance and my desire has always been to follow a quote from St. Francis of Assisi, who said, ‘Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.’ So basically, I’m not an over-the-top, or an in-your-face kind of guy with my faith. I would rather people have questions about why I act the way I act, whether they view it as positive or not, and ask questions, and then given an opportunity at some point, then you can talk about your faith a little bit. I firmly believe, just personally, what works for me, and what I enjoy doing is letting my actions speak about the kind of character that I want to have, and following that quote from St. Francis.’’

http://www.thepracticingcatholic.com/2011/12/01/aaron-rodgers-on-tebow-and-faith/

caplight45 said...

Here is Bob Costas on Tebow last night on NBC Sunday night football:
The Denver Broncos now lead the AFC West at 8-5, 7-1 with Tim Tebow as their starting quarterback. Here’s the list of quarterbacks with higher winning percentages this year than Tebow: Aaron Rodgers — and nobody else.

And the truth is, there’s nobody else quite like Tebow. No fewer than five of his seven victories have featured late fourth quarter comebacks. Approaching — okay, we’ll say it — the miraculous.

Again today, Tebow did next to nothing until the waning moments, and then, down 10-0 with two minutes left, he throws a touchdown pass, and the Broncos tie it at the gun on a 59-yard field goal. And then win it in overtime on a 51 yarder. The combination of Denver’s continuing late heroics, and today, the Bears otherwise unexplainable errors, is enough to have some at least suspect divine intervention. Except that Tebow, whose sincere faith cannot be questioned, and should be respected, also has the good sense, and good grace, to make it clear he does not believe God takes a hand in the outcome of games.

Most of us are good with that. Otherwise, how to explain what happens when there are equal numbers of believers on either side. Or why so many of those same believers came up empty facing Sandy Koufax. Or hit the deck against Muhammad Ali. Or why the almighty wouldn’t have better things to do.

Still, there is no doubt that Tebow and his team benefit from his honest belief. How? Frank Bruni put it well in today’s New York Times. Whatever Tebow may lack in classic NFL quarterbacking traits, he possesses other qualities in abundance. And in his case, those qualities — confidence, equanimity, optimism — and a presence that can’t be explained, but can certainly be felt. The whole Tebow persona derives from how he sees the world, and his place in it. Those qualities, no matter how one comes by them, are an asset, perhaps especially in sports.

Good for Tebow, and those who share his beliefs. And those who don’t can still acknowledge, and appreciate, that who Tim Tebow is, is not only genuine, but for the moment at least, it makes him and the Broncos, one of the most fascinating, and in whatever sense you interpret it, uplifting stories in sports.

To watch it here:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/45636229#45636229

ndspinelli said...

caplight, superb comments and quotes. Thanks!

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Caplight, I agree with Rodgers' take. Not saying I 'disagree' with Tim Tebow...what Aaron is saying is that the Gospel is basically a verb. I don't think Tebow would disagree. Its just a difference of style.

caplight45 said...

And I hope I have made it clear that I have great admiration for TT as an athlete, as a Christian and as a young man.

I'd love to see him come out of a loss and say, "Ya know I got thumped today but God is still good!" Or something like that. I don't get paid to be brilliant on Mondays.

And there is style in it and personality too, absolutely.

Let me remove it from TT for a moment. I think it is the idea of tying success, winning and celebrity to God's blessing. I have traveled a bit to do missionary projects. Always in impoverished areas by our standards and sometimes in dangerous areas. I've seen people who suffer for their Christian faith and the idea of winning and success in American terms is ludicrous to them.

Like I said, it's Monday. If I keep going I'll start talking theology or something.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"I've seen people who suffer for their Christian faith and the idea of winning and success in American terms is ludicrous to them. "

Great point.

I believe that he should be commended for his faith regardless of his social standing, especially if he is willing to try to win people over with it and I believe that is his ultimate goal. Putting faith into practice means being an ambassador for Christ. He knows he faces criticism but he doesn't care and I love that.

That some people feel he should disconnect his success or failure as an athlete from his faith is ludicrous and says more about them than Tebow.

Curious George said...

" caplight45 said...
@Curious George:
When at the end of the game last night TT's first words were, "First of all I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," (quoting from memory) what was he thanking him for? TT is on the record that God doesn't give him wins because he prays. But the statement made it seem that that was exactly what he was thanking Jesus for."


Iguess it could if you ddn't listen to the rest:

“First and foremost I just have to thank my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ and thank my teammates. This is just, it’s an unbelievable feeling. What an environment with these fans. I’m so proud of these fans and my teammates and my coaches. You have something special when you have a team that nothing is going right but you continue to believe and you stick together and you encourage one another and eventually good things are going to happen. I believe that we’re a team that keeps the faith and keeps believing in each other and that’s something special.”

So Tebow is thanking and praising his teammates, coaches, and fans for the win.

I mean this talk, especially from a pastor, is disconcerting. Do thank God through prayer at meals? God didn't put that chicken on your plate. I think players pointing to heaven and thanking God is an act of humbling oneself....what's wrong with that? That's why you only see it when things go right.

Look I would prefer people keep their faith to themself. But I can think of a lot of public figures whose messages and actions are more offensive than Tim Tebow's.

caplight45 said...

Curious George

"So Tebow is thanking and praising his teammates, coaches, and fans for the win."
You make my point (and I did listen to all the rest) he is thanking God for a win.

I must add that I do appreciate the way he spreads the victory around and doesn't hog it all to himself. I think his Christian faith comes through in his humility and generosity in praising others.

"I think players pointing to heaven and thanking God is an act of humbling oneself."

Well said and I will think about that. That puts a fresh interpretation on it for me.
(Note to spinelli-this is how you don't have to back yourself into a corner.:)Say: Maybe you are right. Rinse and repeat)

"I mean this talk, especially from a pastor, is disconcerting."
Please understand it is precisely because I am a pastor (there are days I wish that had not come to light here) that this strikes a cord with me. I often interact with people when life isn't working well, when success and effectiveness elude them and circumstances overwhelm them. Celebrity Christianity isn't much comfort to them. See, the Gospel has to be the same whether I'm with a bank president or an inmate at the federal prison. It's got to be good news for the suburban soccer moms and the homeless men I was with this weekend. the story of Jesus Christ has to reach the heart of a doctors and the recovering addicts (and all of these were in my church on yesterday). At lastly I have to be able to offer the same hope to a Successful American that I do to an impoverished Mexican, persecuted Ethiopian or a desperately ill Guatemalan living five hours by river from the nearest clinic.

I best stop now. I have commenced to preaching and my daughter needs eggs to make Christmas cookies tonight.

Peter Hoh said...

I've got no problem with how Tebow has conducted himself as a pro, but I thought the Bible verses on his eye black was way over the top.