Althouse: "Sure a baby has a swimming reflex but that doesn't mean watching them swim isn't absolutely terrifying."

August 28, 2011

"Sure a baby has a swimming reflex but that doesn't mean watching them swim isn't absolutely terrifying."

Says a Metafilter participant, linking to several videos. I watched these videos and didn't find them terrifying at all. These are people teaching babies ISR — Infant Swim Self Rescue. The babies are learning how to save themselves from drowning. Immersed in pools, with supervision, they learn to roll over face up and stabilize themselves in a position where they can breathe. I was inspired by the success of the babies in learning a very specific and highly useful skill. Hooray for the babies!

As for the people on Metafilter (and in the comments at YouTube) who think it's terrible to scare babies and make them cry.... Well, all I can say is maybe they don't know any babies. You don't melt into a pool of sympathy when a baby cries. You deal with whatever the situation is, if you can figure it out. By the way, a drowned baby doesn't cry.

64 comments:

ndspinelli said...: Well put. It is a fundamental duty for every parent to teach their children how to swim.; 8/28/11, 10:19 AM
Palladian said...: "a drowned baby doesn't cry."

Now there's a song title if there ever was one.; 8/28/11, 10:19 AM
caseym54 said...: All I can say is I hope they don't know any babies.; 8/28/11, 10:22 AM
ndspinelli said...: I just thought of the song, "Pimps Don't Cry," from the Will Farrell movie, The Other Guys. The flick was a flop, but I thought it was hilarious for the first hour.; 8/28/11, 10:25 AM
ndspinelli said...: "There's no crying in baseball..err drowning"; 8/28/11, 10:26 AM
Carol_Herman said...: I'm not so sure "terrifying" is the word. Since I was living in LA. the complex had a pool. And, I don't swim! It's a safety defense to take your kid to the YMCA to learn how to swim.

Second advantage is that the little boys go with their moms into the ladies changing rooms. So seeing naked women showering is no big deal!

Anyway, yes. Moms are also in their swim suits. But we don't go "in." Only a bunch of kids (all under two) ... go into the water.

Oh, yeah. "NOT THE DEEP END." When there is no such thing for a little one that "isn't the deep end."

The best lesson is that the kid comes up and floats. And, splashes around. And, they put the kids on belly boards. So they can kick their ways across the wide end of the pool.

And, they do!

Okay. And, the sentence the kids are taught: "DO NOT SWIM TO YOUR MOTHERS" ... SWIM TO THE LEDGE.

And, kids get to know the word LEDGE soon after they're learning words "in general."

Toys are also thrown into the pool. And, the instruction is given: DO NOT SWIM TO THE TOYS!

Maybe, individually, kids wouldn't listen to ya. (They're heading for TWO!) ... Or at least that was the case I remember.

My son's birthday party that year involved all the kids from this swim club. (We had stairs leading up to the bedrooms. And, a few kids have never seen stairs. So that was their toy. Going up and down on their bottoms. And, laughing their heads off.)

We had a girl come in with a guitar. Who brought and blew up balloons.

And, among the moms we became friends. And, put together a "club" ... where we'd meet and go places. One of them was "stretch mark" beach out in Venice. No waves at all. Just moms and their kids ... doing what people do when they live near the beach.

Oh, there's no drowning, involved.

Good health.; 8/28/11, 10:27 AM
ndspinelli said...: "I'm So Lonsesome I could cry..err drown."; 8/28/11, 10:28 AM
ndspinelli said...: Apparently Carol Herman's mother taught her to swim. There is always a downside. At least she could have also taught her, "brevity is the soul of wit."; 8/28/11, 10:30 AM
bagoh20 said...: The comments at most youtube videos are the most embarrassing collection of words anywhere on the planet - a foul concoction of hate and stupidity, and it's endless.; 8/28/11, 10:30 AM
Expat(ish) said...: I have observed, over the years, that most people with opinions on children either don't have any or have unsuccessful ones.

While the jury is still out on mine (10, 13,15) so far they are good students, polite, honest, and mostly happy. It's not all us, of course, there is a lot of nature for us to smoosh the nurture on.

-XC; 8/28/11, 10:31 AM
Curious George said...: "a drowned baby doesn't cry."

Don't give any whackjobs ideas.; 8/28/11, 10:31 AM
AllenS said...: I remember watching my sister throw her baby into a pool, and up he came screaming with delight and dog paddling away. I almost freaked.; 8/28/11, 10:36 AM
Irene said...: The people who think it's terrible to scare babies by putting them in the water are likely the same people who think it's cool to pose their babies on train tracks for professional photography sittings.; 8/28/11, 10:40 AM
Palladian said...: "The comments at most youtube videos are the most embarrassing collection of words anywhere on the planet - a foul concoction of hate and stupidity, and it's endless."

I have often wondered what could be accomplished in the world if all the man-hours used to write those comments over the years could be reclaimed. The thing that frightens me is that if you somehow averaged all the comments ever posted at YouTube, you would have a fair representation of the mean intelligence of the human being...

This xkcd comic is appropriate...; 8/28/11, 10:42 AM
DADvocate said...: I taught my kids to hold their breaths as babies. Somewhere between the ages of 2-3 I had taught them all to swim. (I swam competitively as a kid, was a lifeguard with Red Cross WSI training, etc.)

Swimming and water safety are incredibly valuable skills for fun, safety and survival. IF it involves a little crying, so be it.; 8/28/11, 10:47 AM
Wince said...: Desmond Morris on the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.

Other videos and critques alongside.; 8/28/11, 10:48 AM
Jube said...: @Paladin: Not sure about you tube comments, but here's a stunningly clear visualization of hours of US adults watching TV per year, vs total hours required to create wikipedia.

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/cognitive-surplus-visualized/; 8/28/11, 10:51 AM
somefeller said...: a drowned baby doesn't cry.

Confucian wisdom.; 8/28/11, 10:53 AM
Joe Schmoe said...: I have 3 kids and wish I'd done this with all of them. As people from seafaring cultures could tell you, kids can learn to swim before walking.

When we first put our 2 oldest kids in the pool (7 and 6 years old now; first foray into the water around 1-2 years old) we had them all dolled up in various flotation devices. They loved it, but also they didn't get used to the water and certainly weren't learning how to swim on their own. We finally got them to put their heads underwater this summer! Maddening. Maddening mainly because it's hard for my wife and I to take them to the beach or pool and not watch them for every second because until recently they couldn't even go underwater.

We put our 9 month old in the pool just recently. No floaties, no nothing. She didn't mind going underwater. It's so much easier to do this stuff with them as babies before they get old enough to be scared. I wish I would've known this sooner!; 8/28/11, 10:58 AM
Phil 314 said...: well I would have commented but Carol said it all.

No mind you, she didn't say it all about toddler swimming,

but she "said it all".; 8/28/11, 10:59 AM
Phil 314 said...: Apparently Carol Herman's mother taught her to swim. There is always a downside. At least she could have also taught her, "brevity is the soul of wit."

I would assume her mother taught her:

If you don't have anything nice to say, say anything at all; 8/28/11, 11:03 AM
Palladian said...: "If you don't have anything nice to say, say anything at all"

... and, frequently. Very, very frequently.; 8/28/11, 11:05 AM
AllenS said...: ... and say it in one or two sentence paragraphs.; 8/28/11, 11:12 AM
edutcher said...: Any mother would panic at the idea, but that's where the kid spent its first nine months, so it;'s going to do better than one might expect.

The Blonde, whose family has had a lakeside cabin in Canada all her life, is a stickler on teaching kids to swim. She's forever after her niece to teach her three kids, who now live by a lake, to swim.

And she's right.; 8/28/11, 11:14 AM
Fred4Pres said...: Babies are tougher than these wimps realize.; 8/28/11, 11:22 AM
Carol_Herman said...: My mom taught me to swim?

Religious nutters blow full steam ahead.

I said, though, that I can remember MOVING to LA. With a baby all of 3 weeks old. And, we moved into a complex that had a pool.

I even have early, early pictures of my son. In his dad's arms. In the jacuzzi. Where I had no fear i bringing out my camera. Which in the old days, you had to hold up to one eye. In order to focus.

My son, now an adult, is not afraid of water sports. Or swimming. (Like I was.)

And, he was less than two when I took him to the YMCA for lessons. The pool, indoors, was huge!

There had to be at least a dozen of us moms. With kidlings.

And, the memories of this are great!

Too bad religions seem to suck out people's brains. So they can't lose their habit of HATE! It's not just Islam ...; 8/28/11, 11:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Tragically, Hurricane, er, Tropical Storm Irene claimed its first victim: the Vagina Tree of Brooklyn.

R.I.P.

Peter; 8/28/11, 11:41 AM
ricpic said...: Totally undiscernible what makes them cry 50% of the time.; 8/28/11, 11:45 AM
SteveR said...: All three of my daughters were taught in that type of scenario early on. I have no doubt its a good thing to do. Mr. Dave wasn't always pleasant but my girls learned.; 8/28/11, 11:47 AM
traditionalguy said...: Many countries do not teach their children to swim.

They rely on instilling a fear of water.

The YMCA has always made swimming lessons a key part of its mission.

Also there is an easy to learn technique called "drown proofing" but it is seldom taught now since it involves many continuous hours in a pool to master.; 8/28/11, 12:29 PM
Quaestor said...: This downing and/or swimming babies thread seem a somewhat leaden balloon. I feel more inclined to smarmy blasphemies and gratuitous swipes at J this fine Sunday.

wv: debus - One must debus before one may enplane.; 8/28/11, 12:43 PM
DADvocate said...: Tragically, Hurricane, er, Tropical Storm Irene claimed its first victim: the Vagina Tree of Brooklyn.

What'd you expect from a big pussy?; 8/28/11, 12:44 PM
jeff said...: "These videos really bother me. Couldn't they let those babies play with something safer, like guns?"

Yes. Cause its so unlikely a baby will come across water as it grows up. And when that baby gets older its a excellent idea to familiarize it with firearms, how they work, how to make them safe etc. I was taught to swim around 4years old and how to shoot around 7. Who knew I was a victim of child abuse back then?; 8/28/11, 12:44 PM
Quaestor said...: traditional guy wrote:
Many countries do not teach their children to swim.

They rely on instilling a fear of water.

J is evidently from one of those countries, don't you think?

For my next trick three religions and one cult will be denigrated in a single sentence...

wv: crust -- Not funny, or even relevant. Word verification is broken.; 8/28/11, 12:47 PM
Quaestor said...: jeff wrote:
And when that baby gets older its a excellent idea to familiarize it with firearms, how they work, how to make them safe etc.

Why wait? Start the swimming lesson early in the afternoon and finish the day with the firearms course so Baby can shoot the asshole who threw him in the pool in the first place.; 8/28/11, 12:53 PM
Robert said...: What's blue and sits in a corner?; 8/28/11, 12:53 PM
Robert said...: 36 comments and no dead baby jokes? What the hell is wrong with you people?; 8/28/11, 12:54 PM
Oso Negro said...: ISSR is an excellent way to teach kids to swim. My older two went through YMCA lessons and were swam passably after multiple weeks of instruction. The youngest went through ISSR at the age of two and a half. She could survive in the pool by the end of the third day and was swimming by the end of the week. By the end of the second week, she could ride a trike into the pool fully-clothed (winter coat included) and swim out of the situation. I never saw anything like it in my life.

The babies we watched in training howled like banshees during the instruction and the lady who ran it had been investigated by Child Protective Services based on the complaints of misguided do-gooders. The lessons were 10 minutes long, every day until the kid swam.

In later years we were involved in USA Swimming in the state and you could always tell the ISSR graduates among the little kids. They were the ones who would roll over on their backs for air when they felt tired.; 8/28/11, 12:57 PM
Quaestor said...: ironrails etc. wrote:
Tragically, Hurricane, er, Tropical Storm Irene claimed its first victim: the Vagina Tree of Brooklyn.

Isn't there a movie called A Tree Grows in Brooklyn It's a porno, right?; 8/28/11, 12:58 PM
Hagar said...: Having a somewhat helter-skelter childhood, I did not learn to swim until I was 14, but I remember falling off the pier when I was 7, leaning out to look for flounders, and it took them a while to get a boat to haul me out. My mother was a bit pissed, because she had just bought me new rubber boots, which were hard to get then, and I had lost one of them in the sea.
And I went through the ice skating on the Mjøsa in January; that was quite scary - and cold, but I kept warm by chewing out the other kid who was with me for not helping on the way home.
I finally learned in the old swimming hole - really the intake pond for the old woolenware factory. We would dogpaddle and make swimming motions in the shallow pond area until we thought we could make it across the stream, but I thought I could before I really could, and got caught by the current and held against the intake grate. One of the older kids saw what was happening and ran over and laid down on the dam and grabbed me by the hair and pulled me out - quite unnrcessarily roughly, I thought, but then Pål nakken always was a bully.; 8/28/11, 1:01 PM
Quaestor said...: Absolutely nothings wrong with me, Robert...

How do you make a dead baby float?
Take your foot off of it's head.; 8/28/11, 1:02 PM
Quaestor said...: What's worse than finding 7 dead babies in 1 backyard pool?
Finding 1 dead baby in 7 backyard pools.; 8/28/11, 1:05 PM
Donna B. said...: I didn't watch the videos, but I'm pretty sure that infants don't have a swim reflex. They don't even have a turn over and get face out of the water reflex... thus the need to learn how.; 8/28/11, 1:07 PM
Quaestor said...: How do you make a baby float?
Two scoops of ice cream, one scoop of baby. Blend on high.; 8/28/11, 1:10 PM
jeff said...: "so Baby can shoot the asshole who threw him in the pool in the first place."

The asshole who is doing something to keep it from drowning later in life? That asshole?; 8/28/11, 1:17 PM
Quaestor said...: Donna wrote:
I'm pretty sure that infants don't have a swim reflex.

Not only that babies have no special aptitude for firearms, either. Up to and including preschool age children should be restricted to knives and explosives.

wv: slunc -- somehow fitting; 8/28/11, 1:18 PM
Nichevo said...: Too bad religions seem to suck out people's brains. So they can't lose their habit of HATE! It's not just Islam ...

---

Carol, really? You equate criticism of yourself (hateful or not) with religiosity? There are atheists, Christians, Jews, and for all I know Buddhists and Muslims here who all decry your writing style and so forth.

Religion has nothing to do with it. Instead, your invocation of religion as a cause shows that you are either foolish or duplicitous. Very reminiscent of Bradley's bitchy passive-aggressive tactics, in fact, to keep asserting what's not true, or at least not in evidence, in order to make it appear true to yourself and others.

Again, Carol: People are not criticizing or attacking you because they are "religious." They do so because (in their opinion) you write or think badly.

Most people here agree with this. Those who say the opposite are not your friends. They are laughing at you, not with you. You are not Ann's favorite because of your quality but because she is a meanie who took to heart the old joke "Hire the handicapped - they're fun to watch." La Belle Dame Sans Souci, forsooth!

Yeah, I know, wasting my time. Please note that I (IMHO) have not said anything hateful or abusive, and whatever my degree of religiosity, it is not a Christian religiosity, so find no solace there.

Let me ask you: what are you GOOD at? At least, what can you write about informedly and without odd stylistic twitches or attention span issues? You are happy to write, with strong opinions, about issues you freely admit you know nothing about. I'm sure you can understand how this weakens your writing.

So maybe you could discuss, NOT something you know nothing about, but something you DO know about? Maybe we would be impressed and respect you more/"hate" you less.

...BTW, Cedarford is interested, I think - keep working it. (Hope you like anal. ;>); 8/28/11, 1:26 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Nichivo, I think you got your threads confused.; 8/28/11, 1:43 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Yup. Not only is the YMCA dedicated to teach swimming to the littlest and youngest of kids ... They do it without putting "rubber duckies" around a kid's waist. Or those inflatable arm bands.

Kids go IN. Mothers stand around and look. Me? IN AMAZEMENT!

I never would have done this twice if I thought my son hated the experience!

Instead? I think he could swim before he learned to walk!

And, today? My gosh. He loves being in the water! He can even snorkel. (When Glenn Reynolds posts about that stuff, I send him the pictures.)

Meanwhile, I don't like the water.

I have a vague memory from childhood. In Brooklyn. Where I tried to get out of taking a bath through one whole winter. Even, today, when I'm in the shower ... I hate to get my head wet. (Sure. I do it. How else do you watch out shampoo?)

Of course, the WORST THING any parent does is let a child go into the water ... and then they turn their heads. Or go inside to do "chores."

Again. When I was young. I remember a small child that was put where the waves broke. And, somehow, by falling on its side, this baby drowned.

The YMCA was one terrific parenting experience I had! You don't have to stick your fears into your children!; 8/28/11, 1:51 PM
kjbe said...: Precisely because he didn't have swimmimg lessons as a child, was the reason my husband insisted on early childhood lessons (1-2yrs old) for our daughter. Props to those who do this - this is a great program.; 8/28/11, 2:13 PM
Anonymous said...: What's more fun than 100 dead babies?
100 dead babies with needles in their eyes.

What's more fun than 100 dead babies with needles in their eyes?
100 live babies with needles in their eyes.

What's more fun than 100 live babies with needles in their eyes?
Putting the needles in.

Peter; 8/28/11, 2:15 PM
DADvocate said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/28/11, 4:04 PM
DADvocate said...: What's the difference between a truckload of dead babies and a truckload of bowling balls?

You can unload the babies with a pitchfork.; 8/28/11, 4:06 PM
Nichevo said...: How do you get a hundred dead babies into a phone booth? La Machine! How do you get 'em out? With a straw! How do you put 'em back together again? Krazy Glue!

(The 80s called, they want their truly tasteless jokes back - thanks, Blanche Knott)

She also had the best Black - Polish joke ever but I can't tell it here.

----

Carol, as you could tell from my quoting you, I was quoting you on this thread. But I see where they started ripping you on the previous thread and can understand that you have your dander up. Though you may have kinda made your bed there.

That said, I'm afraid that I have helped to turn you into a figure of fun here - that is, where you used to be ignored or tolerated, our little "struggle session" seems to have opened the floodgates and legitimized Carol-bashing. (Funny that I never got any credit at the time, bitchez! You know who you are!)

That was not my intent. (You are MY prey and I do not share! :>) I certainly think it is safe to wait till you say something looney in a thread before crapping on you. No need to preempt, guys.

Sonofabitch! First I say something nice about C4 - am betrayed mercilessly, as I deserved (have I mentioned lately that among other things Cedarford is a liar? Has sacrificed the truth to his monomania?) - now I have to defend you! Who's next - J, God forbid?

Anyway I agree it is not very Christian, as I understand the term, to go bashing old ladies without cause. Aside from my notion of cause, I'm not Christian - what's their excuse?

Furthermore, I will admit you seem to be somewhat relevant in your child-swimming content here (the locker rooms thing went off the rails though).

May I make a suggestion?

Try limiting your posts, for at least the next few days, to 25 words or less. Don't be afraid to edit. Make sure they are the most important 25 words you have.

In a few days you can step it up to 50, but take it slowly.

(I had to impose this discipline on a friend in high school who was a great guy but like you, had diarrhea of the mouth. His was more a habit come of being raised in a leftist household, so I quoted Orwell to him and made him understand it was a virtue to speak plainly.); 8/28/11, 4:57 PM
ndspinelli said...: Nichevo, you're assuming a fact not in evidence..that Carol Herman can count to 25.; 8/28/11, 5:07 PM
Firegeezer said...: I taught both of my children (one boy and one girl) to start swimming before they were old enough to walk. Each was about 8 mos. A baby automatically holds its breath and paddles to the surface. I held them and went through the drill repeatedly. They loved it! And they grew up without any fear of water. I call it life-safety training and it works.; 8/28/11, 5:33 PM
Jennifer said...: The real danger in teaching babies to swim at a very early age is that they grow up to be little fish who join swim teams at age 7, dragging Mom out of bed at 4:45 in the morning several days a week.; 8/29/11, 2:00 AM
holdfast said...: "You deal with whatever the situation is, if you can figure it out."

That is one freaking big "if".

I start swimming lessons with the tot next weekend. Looking forward to it as he generally loves the water. Wonder if I'll be the only Dad?; 8/29/11, 10:55 AM
john harvard said...: No one has addressed what should be the most important issue:

Bringing all these obviously incontinent infants into a public pool!

I'm serious: are there appropriately waterproof diapers that small? Or do you put them in naked and hope the chlorine takes care of it?

For that matter, what are the health implications of a tiny baby ingesting such strongly-chorinated water?

JH; 8/29/11, 11:30 AM
Bruce Wayne said...: Ann Althouse is Beautiful.; 8/29/11, 11:51 AM
mockmook said...: Also there is an easy to learn technique called "drown proofing" but it is seldom taught now since it involves many continuous hours in a pool to master.
8/28/11 12:29 PM

Isn't there a contradiction in that paragraph?; 8/29/11, 12:06 PM
mockmook said...: Wonder if I'll be the only Dad?

8/29/11 10:55 AM

You can only hope; have fun!!!; 8/29/11, 12:09 PM
Unknown said...: john harvard --

"I'm serious: are there appropriately waterproof diapers that small?"

Yeah, and you don't let them wear those for too long 'cause they're like tight rubber bands. They work well enough. Of course there will be accidents, just like adults occasionally puke in a pool.

"For that matter, what are the health implications of a tiny baby ingesting such strongly-chorinated water?"

Pretty much zip. You're not talking hours here.

Taught my daughter to swim at 9mo, helped with grandkids when I visited by spending a lot of time in the pool with them and knocking their feet out from under them.

They learn quickly not to gasp or panic, and that there's a good 15-30 seconds of air you can use to come up. The all swim like fish.; 8/29/11, 1:57 PM
Unknown said...: y - Before the GN's descend.

wv: crili - Who actually thinks a typo means anything? Li'Crili.; 8/29/11, 2:00 PM