July 6, 2011

Obama made the economy worse.

A meme with legs.

268 comments:

1 – 200 of 268   Newer›   Newest»
Herman Carol said...

Indeed.

MadisonMan said...

It's a potent charge. Not something that can be proven, of course, but that probably doesn't matter.

I'll be curious to see what the Republicans offer instead.

Shouting Thomas said...

Jesus, we now how a Herman Carol who is as taciturn as Carol Herman is verbose!

Same person? Reversed?

traditionalguy said...

That "The poor bumbling Obama has unexpectedly made the economy worse" is a permitted attack. To say that the monster is engineering our total financial collapse ASAP remains a truth voters cannot handle, for now.

traditionalguy said...

But the co2 plague is everywhere and we will all die of 100 different disasters unless the US economy is destroyed. What's wrong with you sheeple?

MadisonMan said...

What the economy is like NOW, 16 months before the election, really might not matter a whole lot.

The Crack Emcee said...

A meme with legs.

Not coming out of Mitt's mouth.

Robert Cook said...

"I'll be curious to see what the Republicans offer instead."

Take a look at what Obama's doing; that's what the Republicans did and will do...serving the interests of Wall Street and the bankers.

themightypuck said...

Once they bailed out the banks the die was cast. It is fantasy to think McCain would have pulled the rug out and let prices clear in the orgy of creative destruction that would have sucked then but led to a more rapid turnaround. Obama did sign the health care law but I seriously doubt that has had much of an impact on the economy yet.

Hagar said...

"Never let a good crisis go to waste!"

Obama's economic ideas basically are those of the college youth of the 1920's and 30's, and he is not to be deflected from trying to impose them on the country. He, and a good many of his associates, really believe this is the way to go.

ndspinelli said...

I love it, Herman Carol. I believe you've caused some self editing from your inverse namesake.

Shouting Thomas said...

Take a look at what Obama's doing; that's what the Republicans did and will do...serving the interests of Wall Street and the bankers.

You keep thinking that this is a miraculous thing you've discovered... Kookie... that the rich have greater access and influence.

Let me tell you this very slowly, Kookie. Every sentient being on the planet knows this.

Knowing it doesn't exactly fix things in the way you think it does.

What we have here is a fundamental reality of human nature.

What we learned in the 20th century is that trying to change that reality through revolution was a genocidal disaster that also plunged hundreds of millions into enslavement and poverty.

So, the fix is kinda complicated, no?

Scott M said...

Not coming out of Mitt's mouth.

My thoughts exactly. My leading requirement for a candidate opposing the President is the ability to go on the offensive and stay there. Now is NOT the time for "elder statesman" airs or false civility.

This campaign needs a brutal fist fight. Anyone with half a brain can already see it's going to be no matter what, so pretending otherwise is simply a sign that the pretender doesn't have what it takes to do the job.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...

Madison Man:"I'll be curious to see what the Republicans offer instead"

They have offered a very detailed budget . The President offered a budget that was defeated on a bipartisan basis, perhaps unanimously. There has been no budget for two years from the Dems. Unfortunately when we have a President who leads from behind we have these kinds of messes.

Shouting Thomas said...

Drill, baby, drill!

Sarah, will you or won't you?

Paulio said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carol_Herman said...

ZOMBIE ECONOMICS. With a trillion stolen to pay off those with political connections. One of the biggest barrels of loot in our entire history!

What's stupid about obama?

He thought he'd get a bouncing economic recovery. But all he did was install ZOMBIE ECONOMICS.

In this ZOMBIE, there's no life you'd see on an EKG. No blips. No rising and falling as the sick patient breathes.

No need for hedge funds, either. Because real customers have not returned to trade, here.

And, it doesn't even pay to buy a CD. Your money is worth ZERO, when you can't put it to work. Where those who save would earn interest.

The EURO blows up first, however. Germany, in September, IF it pulls out of the EURO ... the rest of the paper would become cheap. And, the German currency would become something worth having. Including to Germans. Who would make money when people came to them to borrow "some."

Japan's in the toilet for other reasons. They've got a collective ruling mafia who lies a lot. And, who hides the national nuclear disaster from the Japanese people.

How long can the lies continue? Well, as long as journalists earn a living.

Even crap like Nancy Grace earn good wages.

The last journalist to actually lose their job was Dan Rather. And, he still remains pissed at C-BS.

What's a reputation worth, if you're a journalist?

I can't wait until I see a book coming out called: "THE CRIME AT THE SOFITEL." It would describe the rape scene.

You'd be left to judge for yourself if the Sofitel is a whore house. Or not.

bagoh20 said...

Herman, I got it the first time. It is funny, and a kind of ying/yang that I welcome. Love you both.

Scott M said...

If the unemployment numbers don't come way down before November 2012, we're going to be hearing it a lot.

When has it ever changed very much very fast? In other words, I don't think an uptick in September or October is going to help him. Oh, I don't for a minute doubt that might lend some 9th inning energy to an incumbent campaign that, by that time, has already had it's ass handed to it in two or three national debates, but it will be too late.

Unemployment will have to change and continue to drop for half a year before they can really make any hay with it.

Paulio said...

"A meme with legs." Among the right wing commentariat, maybe, like birtherism. There's no accounting for the crazy lies the echo chamber produces.

Sixty Grit said...

Duh!

Oops, that is too much like a response one of the usual trolls here would post. But it is still apt.

Duh!

WV: chedng - what Geithner was doing on his taxes.

traditionalguy said...

We want Carol_Herman back.

Scott M said...

Carol, do you own a dartboard?

Carol_Herman said...

Let's see what Grassley does, now. Because someone in his office will tell him he got swindled.

Perhaps, he'll just go cry on McCain's shoulder?

Or, the effeminite fingered wonder, the chinless Mitch McConnell ... will run around like a chicken who has lost his head?

If I want the truth, I'll wait for Donald Trump to show up. And, comment. And, I'll wait for Sarah Palin ... to take her grizzly aim and the incompetent republicans.

Shouting Thomas: You can be fooled by a fraudster who pops up with a "reversal of my name," "Thomas Shouting" into a hole.

traditionalguy said...

At a girl. The real Carol is back and in fine form.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pauldar said...

Ann, one of my best lifetime friends wife is a 30 + years IRS employee. Her job is to process 941 forms, which is an Employer's quarterly Federal Tax return. She normally gets laid off around the start of the 4th quarter as the year winds down, then starts back up 1st part of the year - she got laid off a few weeks ago as companies who would have normally filed their 2nd quarter 941's had gone out of business or the 941's that was coming in had the "final" boxed checked. Small companies are hurting, and hurting bad. By just looking at what is going on with 941's coming into the IRS, Employment numbers are not going to get better anytime soon unless our leaders fix things. Not holding my breath

Original Mike said...

Of course he has.

MadisonMan said...

They have offered a very detailed budget

True, but one with unrealistic (as per usual with the Gov) expectations as far as Tax Revenues as a percentage of GDP goes.

This being 15-18 months before the election, I've not paid particular attention to what the candidates think of Ryan's budget (is that the one you to which you refer?) -- although I recall -- was it Gingrich? -- one of them having to apologize for something.

That no budget has come out of Congress is definitely something Republicans should campaign on (unless they are incumbent Congresscritters, that is).

Robert Cook said...

"Let me tell you this very slowly, Kookie. Every sentient being on the planet knows this."

Uh, Tommy, you might want to clue in your fellows in the Althouse commentariat, (who are presumably sentient, if we relax the rigor of our definition a tad). On the whole, your peers here seem to think Obama is some sort of banker-hating socialist, a commie and committed enemy of Wall Street plotting to destroy American capitalism and our "free market" (sic) system by crafting and implementing policies intended to destroy our economy and bring down our nation. That he is a Republican in all but party designation seems to have escaped their comprehension.

Ann Althouse said...

@sorepaw I know... and that was my point.

Richard Dolan said...

"He made it worse."

Peggy Noonan wrote a column in the WSJ about a month ago, having as its thesis that every president eventually gets tagged with a one-sentence label. "He made it worse" was her suggestion for the most potent against Obama. It seems to be catching on, not that it was so original to begin with.

What makes it potent is that it fits. It will be what takes him down.

MMan asks what Reps offer instead. They offer "I'm not Obama and I won't do what he did." Beyond that, it's hope and change.

TWM said...

"Not something that can be proven, of course, but that probably doesn't matter."

The proof is all around you and in plenty of national indicators. Of course, those who are purposefully blind cannot see.

bagoh20 said...

I still think Bush is turning the knobs behind the curtain, and his use of the teleprompter is genius.

Henry said...

MadisonMan wrote: "I'll be curious to see what the Republicans offer instead"

That's the problem in a nutshell: that someone in authority is supposed to do something. You can't allow markets to clear; you can't allow a hard landing; you can't allow any big businesses to go bankrupt; you can't allow the business cycle to cycle. Something has to be done. Stick a wrench in it.

Certainly I'll be happy if the Republicans successfully pare down the budget, but I'll be much much happier if they extract all the credits and incentives and subsidies and surcharges out of the tax code.

Please, Washington DC. Stop trying to help.

Seven Machos said...

On the whole, your peers here seem to think Obama is some sort of banker-hating socialist

That's a gorgeous strawman.

Incidentally, you and Mick the Birther should get together at the place where the wacky left and the wacky right collide in stupid harmony.

rdkraus said...

Prediction:

The unemployment numbers will be "fixed" before the next national election.

Count on it.

AllenS said...

obama killed dead Osama bin Laden, so he's got that going for him. Who cares about the economy.

The Crack Emcee said...

Paulio,

"A meme with legs." Among the right wing commentariat, maybe, like birtherism. There's no accounting for the crazy lies the echo chamber produces.

Yeah, like the more predominant trutherism on the Left.

Somehow - along with shit like "The Secret" and sweatlodges - that always gets left out of the Left's "crazy" talk,...I wonder why?

bagoh20 said...

Don't you think if political leaders could fix things they would. I mean what would be better for reelection.

The fact is they can't fix things in any way other than getting out of the way. Consequently everything they do that is not getting them out of the way, is getting in the way.

There is nothing the government, and especially the President can do to help my business more than just leaving us alone.

For this reason, Bush is currently superior to Obama, who needs a ranch to retire to.

AJ Lynch said...

This meme is gonna piss off Prez Obama bigtime. Expect to see more very public petulance as a result.

LarsPorsena said...

"..Incidentally, you and Mick the Birther should get together at the place where the wacky left and the wacky right collide in stupid harmony."

Beautifully phrased, sir. Best post of the week.

Paul said...

Made it worse? Hahahaha he doubled it with his 'stimulus'.

Then Pelosi and Reid doubled that with Obamacare.

Even his releasing oil from the reserves just delayed the price of gas rise for just a week (4th of July you know.)

And then there is gunwalker... there is Libya... there is Afghanistan... Iraq....

And all Obama does is point fingers and then tell everyone else to stop pointing fingers!

Matt said...

But Romney will make it better? He will be your nominee you know....

MadisonMan said...

The proof is all around you and in plenty of national indicators. Of course, those who are purposefully blind cannot see.

Proof might mean something different to me than to you. For me, it means running experiments with variables, and that's difficult to do with an economy.

If Obama had done nothing, would the economy be better off now? That's ultimately the question, and I'll say there's no way of knowing definitively. That is, it can't be proven.

Shouting Thomas said...

There is nothing the government, and especially the President can do to help my business more than just leaving us alone.

Yes, the fed can't help, but it can stop making it worse. Things that can be done:

o End the suppression of domestic gas, oil and coal production. Drill, baby, drill!

o End the green energy scam. This is a drain on the real economy.

o End the racial and quota systems. Let employers hire at their own discretion.

o Stop illegal immigration dead in its tracks.

o Reduce taxes, government spending and regulation. Kill unnecessary regulatory agencies.

traditionalguy said...

Obama has a fire department team that shows up and watches your house burn, and sprays some ignitor fluid to make it burn faster,

But mainly the Obama Fire Team is a substitute that blocks any possibility of volunteer fire teams coming to do the fire suppression job right.

Obama and his Team of Socialist Czars are dirty 5th columnists.

garage mahal said...

This campaign needs a brutal fist fight.

The campaign needs some data to prove it, which they of course do not have. Won't stop the Instahacks from pushing it though.

Henry said...

@Robert Cook -- Crony capitalism is nonpartisan. But while it may be driven by interest it's powered by regulation. As Washington amasses power, corruption follows. Obama is only doing what a century of progressive policy has given him power to do.

AJ Lynch said...

Matt- it doesn't matter. It's like when your favorite team fires the current coach- everyone knows it's time for a change and hopes the replacement will be better.

Seven Machos said...

But Romney will make it better? He will be your nominee you know....

This is an example of a bad meme with no legs.

I mean, really. Is this the best you can do? What about hope? What about change? What about the day when the sea levels started to go down?

I suggest a speech in Europe with giant columns. That always works.

Jay said...

A meme with legs

How, exactly, is a fact a "meme"?

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

bagoh20 said...

The fact is they can't fix things in any way other than getting out of the way. Consequently everything they do that is not getting them out of the way, is getting in the way.

And as Henry points out above, getting out of the way is perceived and portrayed as "not doing something" and "not leading".

Thus it requires two things: political courage; and the humility to understand one's limits when it comes to comprehending and controlling a complex system.

Few politicians have those two traits, from either side of the aisle. President Obama lacks them more than most.

Original Mike said...

"I'll be curious to see what the Republicans offer instead"

I'll lay you odds they won't step in and prevent the opening of a large, new manufacturing facility the way Obama is with Boeing.

Seven Machos said...

If Obama had done nothing, would the economy be better off now?

TARP worked quite well. Too bad it was a Bush initiative.

dbp said...

A meme doesn't have to be true to spread but it helps.

Michael said...

Garage: "The campaign needs some data to prove it, which they of course do not have."

No unemployment data.
No housing data.
No balance sheet.
No retail sales data.
No debt data.
No household income data.

Surely you are drunk.

Scott M said...

The campaign needs some data to prove it, which they of course do not have. Won't stop the Instahacks from pushing it though.

You completely missed the point. If it was poorly written, that's my fault, but, nonetheless...

My point was that this isn't going to be a "nice" campaign on either side. For my part, I would like to see the President defeated. Don't know who that's going to be, but it needs to be someone not afraid to take the gloves off. This is grown-up time now and the stakes have never been higher in my lifetime.

Mick said...

Seven Machos said...
"On the whole, your peers here seem to think Obama is some sort of banker-hating socialist

That's a gorgeous strawman.

Incidentally, you and Mick the Birther should get together at the place where the wacky left and the wacky right collide in stupid harmony."



Obama is captured by the Central Bankers of the World, who seek to degrade the US Constitution and the sovereignty of We the People. They have installed an illegal Usuper, who's birth as a British Subject of a British subject father voids his eligibility as a natural born Citizen.

The SCOTUS precedent for the meaning of natural born Citizen is found in Minor v. Happersett (1874):

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

Obama was born British of a British subject father---- he is NOT an eligible natural born Citizen.

Jay said...

The campaign needs some data to prove it, which they of course do not have.

You mean other than that unemployment is up 25% since Obama took office, right?

Or do you mean other than the national debt is up 35% since Obama took office?

Or do you mean other than the fact that 14 percent of Americans are on food stamps? (February’s numbers were the highest number of beneficiaries in any month since the program was established in 1969)

You are a clown.

traditionalguy said...

Obama will not win re-election.

The challenge will be to let Palin/Bachnann/Perry have a chance to do some good things before the legacy media totally be-heads them.

That is why I favor Palin. She has proven ability to take the blows and keep on ticking like a timex watch does.

Bachmann and Perry seem willing to suck up to the Media and the Media to them in a strange character assassination dance.

Romney is irrelevant because he will lose the GOP's base and therefore he will not win.

AllenS said...

Another meme that might have legs in making the obama administration look bad, is this Operation Fast & Furious gun-running scandal that is finally coming into the light. This is bad.

Seven Machos said...

Cook and Mick together, at last exchanging limitless limpid jets of love in the green grass of summer.

God bless America!

garage mahal said...

Surely you are drunk.

Then Romney should lay it all out for us if this data is readily available. Instead, he is flip-flopping and backflipping.

I'll give Republicans credit. They got everything they wanted in a decade of their policies, left the economy in fucking shambles, and still strut around like they own the place and had nothing to do with the economy or the debt they left behind.

Matt said...

Martin L. Shoemaker & bagoh20

Explain exactly what you mean by 'getting out of the way.' I mean has ANY president ever 'gotten out of the way'? They all have the power of the Federal government and they all use it to some extent. Same goes for ALL politicians at all levels - whether it is state or local government. In short, government and taxes and regulation always plays a role. It did under FDR and it did under Reagan.

If you are calling for a style of government that has not existed in the US since 1790 or aiming toward some Libertarian utopia then, yes, I can understand 'get out of the way'. But I don't think anyone other than Ron Paul wants that.

Mick said...

Seven Machos said...
"If Obama had done nothing, would the economy be better off now?

TARP worked quite well. Too bad it was a Bush initiative."


TARP has surely not "worked well". The supposed "profits" of it's "repayment" are nonsense accounting fraud, since those loans were paid back by other Governemnt loans. Further, TARP was supposedly a bailout of "financial institutions", but was used to gift Chrysler to Fiat, prop up GM, and as Corporate welfare for those friendly w/ the Marxists in the WH (like GM). You are obviously here to spread disinformation as an internet operative of the Usurper.

Seven Machos said...

the debt they left behind

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

Michael said...

Garage: You can actually google the state of the economy. Most of the news is available on an hourly basis via lots of different sites including those of the U.S. Govt. There is no lack of data underscoring the plain fact that the economy is worse off now than when the President took office and spectacularly worse than he promised it would be if we adopted his "stimulus" proposals.

Robert Cook said...

"That's a gorgeous strawman."

'twould be, 7M, were it not true.

Seven Machos said...

You are obviously here to spread disinformation as an internet operative of the Usurper.

You are partly right. I am an unpaid operative of the George W. Bush administration, praising TARP as a very good policy to counter credit calamity.

By the way, Obama is a natural-born American and eligible to be president.

Michael K said...

"Obama did sign the health care law but I seriously doubt that has had much of an impact on the economy yet."

Its impact is quietly going on and at a rapid pace. American medicine, and I include hospitals as soon almost all doctors will work for them, is anticipating the changes of Obamacare and, unless it is repealed soon, those changes will be irreversible.

Doctors have been perceived as typically conservative and entrepreneurial. That is changing rapidly. I have taught medical students for about 12 years now. They are completely different from my generation. They expect to work for a salary and are concerned with hours and benefits. The older generation, now in their 50s, are the end of the entrepreneurial class. They are the ones who are quitting Medicare and establishing cash practices.

Obama is replicating the experience of Hoover. Now, the question is whether FDR will come along to finish the job. That is the 2012 question.

Michael said...

Mick: You are wrong about the application of TARP funds and their disposition.

Mick said...

Seven Machos said...
"Cook and Mick together, at last exchanging limitless limpid jets of love in the green grass of summer.

God bless America!"



Minor v. Happersett (1974):

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

It is a FACT that the natural born Citizen requirement was inserted to prevent foreign influence. How is it possible then that Obama, born British, of a British subject father, is an eligible natural born Citizen?

Seven Machos said...

Robert -- Tell us the one about how Americans are going to be tried by some international tribunal for "war crimes." I love that one. It's so much better than the one about investment bankers.

Scott M said...

Obama was born British of a British subject father---- he is NOT an eligible natural born Citizen.

But he IS the current President in every way that counts. Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, after all, not some farcical aquatic ceremony. The overwhelmingly vast, painfully- in-the-majority of people in the country recognize Obama as the President, so it doesn't really matter what you say at this point because you can't affect the status-quo one iota.

How's that plan to make sure he's not on the ballot in 50 states going?

Bruce Hayden said...

I keep getting the meme from the other side, that if Obama had not bravely stepped in, things would have been worse. I don't buy it, though apparently the Democrats' focus group of captive economists do.

One of the big problems was, I think, that Obama, Pelosi, etc. were listening to some old style Keynesians. Never mind that Keynesian economics had mostly been debunked by the mid-1980s, and that a lot of economists believed by then that FDR's attempts at Keynesian stimulus failed miserably, greatly extending the Great Depression.

Keynesian economics had an overwhelming lure to the Democrats in power starting in 2008. They could justify spending on whatever they wanted because whatever they spent money on, would multiply utilizing the vaunted Keynesian multiplier.

So, I remember almost a bidding war, with different Democratic politicians outbidding each other with expectations of the multiplier effect that would apply to all that stimulus money being spent.

But, if you start with the assumption that any federal spending is good, and utilizing the multiplier, would increase GDP, it becomes obvious that it there is no reason not to give the money to political constituents. Which is what happened to a lot of the money - much of it went to state and local governments, essentially protecting government workers from layoff and in many cases actually giving them raises.

The reality was, of course, much different. We now see estimates of a quarter of a million dollars or so a year for each job being supposedly created. Did each such quarter million dollar a year job create another half million dollars or so of stimulus (using some of the more egregious multiplier estimates)? Highly unlikely. I would think more likely that borrowing to fund those quarter million dollars a year jobs helped increase unemployment a couple of percentage points - but the unemployment was in the private sector, so it was apparently ok.

The President has now admitted that there is no such thing as a shovel ready project any more, and implicitly admitted that he was naive enough to actually have believed in shovel ready projects early in his Administration. All he needed to have done was to follow the discussions at Ann's blog at the time to have known this. I know I wasn't the only one here pointing this out at the time.


So, we get to the question of what has the Administration done to really help the economy? I really can't think of much. What about its actions hurting the economy? I would suggest the list is quite long, and includes: the Stimulus Bill; the bailout of GM and Chrysler; ObamaCare; Dodd-Frank; green energy; Crony Capitalism (including giving GE, GM, and Chrysler TARP money); 65 mpg fuel efficiency standards; regulation of CO2; shutting down oil/gas production and exploration in this country; 40% deficit budgets; federal government growing by approximately 4% of GPD; etc.

Seven Machos said...

How's that plan to make sure he's not on the ballot in 50 states going?

Mick got the job at the book depository. So, step one is done.

Matt said...

traditionalguy

Obama will not win re-election

If Romney wins the GOP nomination then Obama may not win. But if any other GOP candidate wins the GOP nomination then Obama will most likely win re-election.

It will be two moderates running against each other. This is a moderate country. Far right candidates can win in some areas but not the 538 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. Just sayin'.

Mick said...

Michael said...
"Mick: You are wrong about the application of TARP funds and their disposition."



Oh yeah sure, I believe you!!! Nonsense.

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/4067/barofsky-gm-used-tarp-money-pay-back-tarp-loan

Jay said...

left the economy in fucking shambles,

Um, the unemployment rate was 4.6% and the national deficit at $260 billion when Harry & Nancy were sworn in.

and had nothing to do with the economy or the debt they left behind.


Um, the federal deficit was declining when Harry & Nancy took over.

Again, you are a clown.

garage mahal said...

Garage: You can actually google the state of the economy.

Why don't you just tell us.

What has Obama done, specifically to make the economy worse? Christ even Reagan and Bush's economists are telling us contracting the economy in a recession is the opposite of what we should be doing. This country is truly and deeply fucked. One side is too afraid to do something, and the other side belongs in a psych ward.

bagoh20 said...

"If you are calling for a style of government that has not existed in the US since 1790 or aiming toward some Libertarian utopia then, yes, I can understand 'get out of the way'. But I don't think anyone other than Ron Paul wants that."

A "libertarian utopia" or Ron Paul are straw dogs. There is an ocean of room to move between where we are and that, and it's all an improvement from here.

Do you think it would be good for the U.S. to be the most business friendly, competitive and free nation in the world, or should we be second, or third, or 50th?

I'm just asking for a strong turn of direction away from the ice field. We don't need to abandon ship, or even do a 180. Just maybe a 45 degree turn toward what everybody wants, but fears because they have been told there are worse things than icebergs out there. There aren't. The ice IS the real danger, and we have plenty of examples that went there first to see what happens. They have or are sinking.

Seven Machos said...

Matt's been following the Republican race so closely that he can name Romney and he knows that there are "other" candidates.

Listen to this expert -- this sage!

rdkraus said...

Matt

There might be something in between the "Libertarian utopia" strawman, and the thousands and thousands of pages of laws, regulations, codes, etc promulgated every year by all levels of gov't.

rdkraus said...

bago beat me there.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mick said...

Scott M said...
"Obama was born British of a British subject father---- he is NOT an eligible natural born Citizen.

But he IS the current President in every way that counts. Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, after all, not some farcical aquatic ceremony. The overwhelmingly vast, painfully- in-the-majority of people in the country recognize Obama as the President, so it doesn't really matter what you say at this point because you can't affect the status-quo one iota.

How's that plan to make sure he's not on the ballot in 50 states going?"


It's not time yet, in due time.

Amendments 20 and 25 provide for the ouster of an illegally elected POTUS. Obama is the putative POTUS, but he must be eligible by the rule of law (the Constitution). I see you still ignore inconvenient facts (like the precedent of Minor v. Happersett, and that troubling question posed above, that you still can't answer). How does it feel to participate in treason?

bgates said...

That's ultimately the question, and I'll say there's no way of knowing definitively

Likewise, if Lincoln had evacuated Fort Sumter immediately after his inauguration, it might be that the southern states would have ended slavery on their own and Frederick Douglass would have been elected governor of Maryland by 1864. Prove it wouldn't have happened.

ricpic said...

Let's all be responsible says President Spendthrift.

Seven Machos said...

How does it feel to participate in treason?

It feels totally awesome.

Michael K said...

TARP has surely not "worked well". The supposed "profits" of it's "repayment" are nonsense accounting fraud, since those loans were paid back by other Governemnt loans.

In Nicole Gelinas book, After the Fall, she describes how a market was developing for the distressed CDOs that were held by banks. Initially, the offers were at about 28% of face value. Had this been allowed to develop, a price would have been established and a market would have existed.

Instead, TARP was passed and that rudimentary market vanished. If the US was going to pay 100% of face value for these securities, nobody was going to sell them for less. IT doesn't matter that TARP ended up doing entirely different things. The fact that it existed, ended any chance of a market and a resolution of the crisis.

Iceland, which went completely broke and thus could not afford the handouts Obama has been giving, is recovering much faster than other countries from the crisis.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, after all, not some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Hey I see what you did there…..

Hagar said...

Bruce Hayden,

"Keynesian economics" have not been debunked and will not be until some national government somewhere tries it, which is not going to happen since there will never be times so good that a national government will try to constrain them by laying aside tax money for "a rainy day." This is something they will always promise to do "next year."

Jay said...

What has Obama done, specifically to make the economy worse?

The "stimulus" bill.

The "health care reform" bill

The Czars

The increased regulation

This isn't complicated.

Again, you are a clown

Scott M said...

How does it feel to participate in treason?

Prove that I had anything to do it, shithead. Accusing someone of treason is a damned sight farther than the usual back and forth bickering we have here on this blog. Explain to me how I've participated in any treason.

Seven Machos said...

Also, the 20th and 25th Amendments are largely about the death of the president. Is that the ouster you are talking about, Mick?

I very, very strongly recommend that the Secret Service have a lengthy chat with Mick. No joke.

Scott M said...

Further, McMick, detail your service to this country please.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Matt said...

Martin L. Shoemaker & bagoh20

Explain exactly what you mean by 'getting out of the way.' I mean has ANY president ever 'gotten out of the way'? They all have the power of the Federal government and they all use it to some extent. Same goes for ALL politicians at all levels - whether it is state or local government. In short, government and taxes and regulation always plays a role. It did under FDR and it did under Reagan.


Apparently you missed the part where I said that takes courage and humility that are lacking on both sides of the aisle...

Michael K said...

I don't think is worthwhile to try to debate people like garage. There are, however, those who sense that something is not right and are persuadable. There are books being published on the topic and several are quite readable. That is the place to start, not with the fools who will never accept reality.

Jay said...

This country is truly and deeply fucked. One side is too afraid to do something

Actually bozo, one side doesn't pass budgets and says that their "plan for Medicare is Medicare" pretending there is no problem.

Then they demagogue any efforts at reform.

Guess which side you vote for, clown?

Mick said...

garage mahal said...
"Garage: You can actually google the state of the economy.

Why don't you just tell us.

What has Obama done, specifically to make the economy worse? Christ even Reagan and Bush's economists are telling us contracting the economy in a recession is the opposite of what we should be doing. This country is truly and deeply fucked. One side is too afraid to do something, and the other side belongs in a psych ward."



Lets see. Incresed the National debt 35% to over $14 Trillion? Lost 6 Million jobs? doubled the percentage of those on food stamps. Given $Trillions of We the People's money to the Bankers that own him? Usurped the Presidency (not a natural born Citizen-- born British). Screwed the bond holders and the rule of law with takeover of GM, and gifting of Chrysler to Fiat?

That's just for starters.

bagoh20 said...

rdkrause,

It's like one of us copied the other's homework.

You are a wise one. Of that I'm sure.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)


Well Old man, all I can say is that you are rapidly running out of time, to prevent Obama from being on ballots. The deadlines for filing are starting to appear on the political horizons, so in the next 6 months this great and awesome plan, this theory, which is your own, which is to say is yours, which you invented, on your own must, needs be put into action to save us from the Usurper.

Mick said...

Scott M said...
"Further, McMick, detail your service to this country please."


To who? you? An Internet operative of the Usurper?

Matt said...

bagoh20

You are using too many metaphors although I think I know what you mean by 'ice'. What I don't know however is what examples you speak of. Are you saying a massive debt is ice and we need to stay away from that? I'm inclined to agree if so. However, the way to fix our direction will not come with tax cuts for the wealthy. Sorry but, I say, eliminate the tax cuts for the wealthy and then get us the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Then rework some of the entitlement programs but not enough to leave future retiree's in the cold.

How we do that is both easy [raise taxes] and hard [no one will like it]. But, it worked when Clinton was in office.

I just don't see a 'free market' business model pulling us out of this by itself. I'm as skeptical of Milton Friedman's utopia as I am of Marx's.

Old Dad said...

American politics has been laboring under several logical fallacies for forever. Correlation is not causation, the historical fallacy, etc. Doesn't matter in meme world, though. The President takes the hit or the praise for the economy regardless. That's what makes this meme so potent. Americans think the economy sucks, and they will blame Obama.

Candidate Obama said that if I voted for McCain the economy would go to hell in a handbasket, and he was right.

Scott M said...

You dropped the t-bomb, asshole. Pony up. Forget detail. What have you done for this country besides pay your taxes (if you've done that)?

Try thinking on these things before hurling "treason" at people that have put their lives on the line for you and yours.

garage mahal said...

The Czars

LOL.

Robert Cook said...

"Tell us the one about how Americans are going to be tried by some international tribunal for war crimes."

I've never said they would be tried by an international tribunal...although they should be if we won't try them ourselves, (which we should, but won't).

That criminals walk the earth unpunished for their crimes does not mean they are not criminals or that their acts of murder and mayhem are not crimes.

Seven Machos said...

Robert Cook -- Try them under what law? What law? Tell us what law.

You are a fascist dickhead, dude -- a law unto yourself.

Mick said...

Seven Machos said...
"Also, the 20th and 25th Amendments are largely about the death of the president. Is that the ouster you are talking about, Mick?

I very, very strongly recommend that the Secret Service have a lengthy chat with Mick. No joke."


Please do Obama bootlicking operative!!! You aid and abet the Usurper, and thus treason.

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
To who? you? An Internet operative of the Usurper?


Mick, has been involved in Black Ops for the last three decades, ScottM.. .
-Signed Mick’s Mom.

Really Scott Mick is the Most Dangerous Man in the Universe, or right next to the Most Dangerous Man in the Universe.

Jay said...

OOPS!

In sum, this empirical examination of the direct effects of the three countercyclical stimulus packages of the 2000s indicates that they did not have a positive effect on consumption and government purchases, and thus did not counter the decline in investment during the recessions as the basic Keynesian textbook model would suggest. Individuals and families largely saved the transfers and tax rebates. The federal government increased purchases, but by only an immaterial amount. State and local governments used the stimulus grants to reduce their net borrowing (largely by acquiring more financial assets) rather than to increase expenditures, and they shifted expenditures away from purchases toward transfers.
Some argue that the economy would have been worse off without these stimulus packages, but the results do not support that view. According to the empirical estimates of the impact of ARRA, if there had been no temporary stimulus payments to individuals or families, their total consumption would have been about the same


The "stimulus" did not stimulate anything.

Mick said...

Scott M said...
"You dropped the t-bomb, asshole. Pony up. Forget detail. What have you done for this country besides pay your taxes (if you've done that)?

Try thinking on these things before hurling "treason" at people that have put their lives on the line for you and yours."


It's fun role-playing on the Internet isn't it bootlicker?

bagoh20 said...

If someone gave you a million dollars, but you had to give it away so that it would be used wisely, who would choose to give it to the government?

Anyone? "Bueller"?

Your answer to that question should inform you of what you already know about government, even if you won't admit it.

Obama wants you to give it to him, not that that makes him special in any way.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
LOL.


Demostrating your ability to engage the issue...

James said...

Speaking of multiplier effect:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/06/pelosi-fires-back-at-gingrich-over-food-stamps/

At a press conference in her home town of San Francisco, Pelosi explained that the program's multiplier effect –the amount of money generated in the local economy as the result of the subsidy– far exceeds the nearly $60 billion spent this year by the federal government and is a sure-fire way to stimulate the economy. For every dollar a person receives in food stamps, Pelosi said that $1.79 is put back into the economy. The U.S. Department of Agriculture cites an even higher figure of $1.84.

"It is the biggest bang for the buck when you do food stamps and unemployment insurance. The biggest bang for the buck," she said.
Gingrich on Tuesday wrote a letter critical of the Democrats' stewardship of the economy and urged all Republican candidates to shape the political debate as one "between the Democratic Party of food stamps and the Republican Party of paychecks."



If that is even remotely true, why don't we all quit our jobs and file for unemployment benefits? The economy would take off like a rocket.

Seven Machos said...

Hey, Scott -- Remember when you first encountered Mick here and you told me I should cut him some slack?

Welcome to the Treason Club, my esteemed colleague.

Sloanasaurus said...

Obama is the most anti-business president since FDR. It's hardly surprising that he made the economy worse and still is making it worse. Obama has demonized at one point or another almost all american business and the 100 million people who work for them including: coal companies, oil companies, power companies, drug companies, banks, insurance companies, aircraft manufacturers, Las Vegas (tourism), big retailers, all car companies but GM.

Obama also demonizes any person who has become wealthy from running a business.... that includes most small to midsized businesses in the country.

No wonder, people are bummed about the economy.

Jay said...

Yes garbage, Czars:


December 21, Health and Human Services, at the direction of Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Czar Nancy-Ann DeParle announced that health insurance companies must receive permission from the Obama Administration before they can raise rates by more than 10 percent.


But of course you don't understand these issues, so you're free to "LOL" you're way to incoherence.

bagoh20 said...

"The "stimulus" did not stimulate anything."

Well, it did stimulate the Tea Party and anti-Keynesian everywhere. So it did have some positive effect.

Jay said...

It is the biggest bang for the buck when you do food stamps and unemployment insurance. The biggest bang for the buck," she said.


Then why not send everyone in America a check for a million dollars, Nancy?

Trooper York said...

Oh so Mick likes Dos Equis?

Canuck said...

Unemployment is at 9.1%. I don't see many signs for a large increase of growth in the next year and a half. Mortgage tightening and state & federal spending cuts will put a drag on economic growth. Unemployment will most likely be above 8% at the election.

That means unless there is a major screw up, a Republican wins. I think it'll eventually be Romney or maybe Perry if he gets in. Pawlenty is out unless he gets more funding and energy.

McConnell is a smart guy and he's been gaming the politics out for quite a while. I predict McConnell gets his dream -- Senate majority leader.

America's Politico said...

I had dinner last night with OB-2 crew at the Oval Room near K-street. All is well at the WH. They convinced me that they have all-nation victory route. I trust them. The thing that puzzled me was that they wanted GOP to do something, they just did not want to defeat GOP everywhere. They were hoping that GOP would have a plan, vision, deliverables, diversity, etc. I think they are good sports. What do you think? Is GOP doomed to be devastingly defeated? If so, what next? Will GOP lose the party status by becoming TTP, the tea party.

edutcher said...

The old saw about, "If you're in a hole and you want to get to out, the first thing to do is to stop digging", says it better and lays the blame where it belongs.

Conditions that led to the September Swoon can be laid at Willie's feet as much (probably more than) as Dubya's, but it was not 1929. Little Zero has done that; he is our new Herbert Hoover and FDR in one, largely because of two things:

Not letting a good crisis go to waste.

The Lefties trying to prove Amity Shlaes wrong.

Sloanasaurus said...

Where is Obama's plan to solve the budget and the debt crisis. Obama keeps talking about doing the deal, but he has no plan that actually resolves the issue. All we have is Paul Ryan's plan. Obama has offered no plan that we can used to reach a compromise.

bagoh20 said...

Obama made things better because unemployment is up, which means more unemployment checks, which we all know is the "best bang for the buck".

Obama is awesome!

garage mahal said...


But of course you don't understand these issues, so you're free to "LOL" you're way to incoherence.


You have nothing but right wing talking points. Shouting CZAR does not prove a thing.

Show us, with data, how this Czar made the economy worse.

Jay said...

What has Obama done, specifically to make the economy worse?

You mean other than this?

The effective six-month moratorium on offshore oil and natural gas production will result in the loss of approximately $2.1 billion in output, 8,169 jobs, over $487 million in wages, and nearly $98 million in forfeited state tax revenues in the Gulf states alone


OOPS!

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
America's Politico said...

So you’re back, I still remember your predictions for 2010. But please feel free to lighten the atmosphere here with your predictions….

Where I Obama, after having seen how well you read the tea leaves in 2010, I’d be a little worried about my re-election chances, now that you are confidently predicting a victory.

Scott M said...

Hey, Scott -- Remember when you first encountered Mick here and you told me I should cut him some slack?

Hopefully it was ironic.

Original Mike said...

""It is the biggest bang for the buck when you do food stamps and unemployment insurance. The biggest bang for the buck," [Pelosi] said."

I would dearly love to know if she really believes that.

Mick said...

Trooper York said...
"Oh so Mick likes Dos Equis?"

Yes, I don't always drink beer, but when I do...

Maybe you can answer the question TY!:


It is a FACT that the natural born Citizen requirement was inserted to prevent foreign influence. How is it possible then that Obama, born British, of a British subject father, is an eligible natural born Citizen?

Alex said...

Won't stop the Instahacks from pushing it though.

So says the hack. Are you better off now then 2.5 years ago?

Jay said...

You have nothing but right wing talking points.

You are projecting.

AJ Lynch said...

Obama's primary economic failing is he has failed to improve our collective confidence in our economic futures. Obama has done so poorly, in this respect, that our confidence deficit is way bigger than our fiscal deficit.

Scott M said...

They convinced me that they have all-nation victory route.

So is Obama running for Sec-Gen this time, or is he just going to drop President and go straight for Emperor?

Trooper York said...

You know what's better than a meme with legs?

A mime with big tits.

I used to love Lorene Yarnell. She died of a brain tumor in Norway of all places.

Why would you move to Norway for crying out loud? No wonder her head exploded. Just sayn'

Jay said...

Shouting CZAR does not prove a thing.


Of course I didn't just "shout Czar" you simpleton.

Alex said...

I'll give Republicans credit. They got everything they wanted in a decade of their policies, left the economy in fucking shambles, and still strut around like they own the place and had nothing to do with the economy or the debt they left behind.

Really garbage? Show me any 10-year period when the GOP had complete control of government since like the 1800s? Not only that, but show me a 10-year period of consistently applied supply-side policies being enacted and enforced.

Yeah right you can't. Your busted, your full of shit and exposed for all your lies.

Seven Machos said...

I was hoping America's Politico would come. This person is sarcastic, people! By the way, I like how you are slightly evolving into more of an Eastern European accent. More of that, please!

If only Mick could be being sarcastic...

Finally, ever notice how Robert Cook shuts his hole every time I ask him to cite a law allowing the prosecution of "war crimes"?

Trooper York said...

Mick! A glimmer of humor dude!

Much appreciated.

I don't know if President Obama is a natural born citizen because like Stanley I can not say with certitude who his father actually was. Just sayn'

Original Mike said...

"Why would you move to Norway for crying out loud?"

I vacationed in Norway last summer, Trooper. Fantastic place.

Seven Machos said...

American pussy is American pussy except when it's been infiltrated with foreign cock. Especially black cock that the British Crown has a claim on. That is treason.

Or something.

Mick said...

Scott M said...
"Hey, Scott -- Remember when you first encountered Mick here and you told me I should cut him some slack?

Hopefully it was ironic."


Good cop bad cop? It's fun playing roles... Lets see 7 is the "Conservative" former US government agent, and Scott is the "conservative" former "military man". Both say that calling Obama on his Usurpation is "counterproductive", and that we should attack his "policies" instead. Bravo, Nice job!!!

Me? I am the constiutionalist asking questions that make your bosses (Usurper and minions) nervous, and that you have no answer to. When is SS coming over? I'll have a Dos Equis waiting for them!

AllenS said...

obama killed bin Laden! Dead! What's wrong with you people? Tell them, America's Politico, obama's awesome! He killed bin Laden!

Seven Machos said...

I am the constiutionalist

Now that's hilarious.

Mick said...

Trooper York said...
"Mick! A glimmer of humor dude!

Much appreciated.

I don't know if President Obama is a natural born citizen because like Stanley I can not say with certitude who his father actually was. Just sayn'"


I find you blog very humorous! Any way, Obama's OWN well honed and written about story is that BO Sr. is his father. If that were not the case, he would be screwed anyway.
If Obama's own story is that BO Sr. is his father, how could he be natural born according to that story?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
I vacationed in Norway last summer, Trooper. Fantastic place.

It’s next door to Sweden and it’s lovely lakes, isn’t it?

Scott M said...

Both say that calling Obama on his Usurpation is "counterproductive", and that we should attack his "policies" instead.

Please, for the love of God, show me where I've said this or anything like. Don't claim I implied it. Point it out. If you're going to make claims about people, back them up.

Seven Machos said...

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

Seven Machos said...

Both say that calling Obama on his Usurpation is "counterproductive"

It is a clever argument. I have not said that it is counterproductive to call Obama ineligible for the presidency.

I have said that calling Obama ineligible is wrong, un-American, stupid, and batshit crazy.

Mick said...

Seven Machos said...
"American pussy is American pussy except when it's been infiltrated with foreign cock. Especially black cock that the British Crown has a claim on. That is treason.

Or something."



Such vulgarity! I'm sure that Prof. Althouse doesn't appreciate that!
Or something? How about this (Minor v. Happersett)

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. "

Sounds pretty staight forward.

damikesc said...

Unemployment will have to change and continue to drop for half a year before they can really make any hay with it.

And it'll have to drop due to increased jobs --- not due to unemployed people stopping looking for work.

SDN said...

"It is fantasy to think McCain would have pulled the rug out"

Which is precisely why I didn't support McCain and won't support Romney. If we're going to have Copperhead policies then let the Copperheads own the results.

Ann Althouse said...

"They got everything they wanted in a decade of their policies, left the economy in fucking shambles, and still strut around like they own the place and had nothing to do with the economy or the debt they left behind."

So "it's Bush's fault" is the alternative to "Obama made it worse." Those are 2 memes competing to infect the voters' minds. Which will prevail in 2012?

Franklin said...

As Glenn Reynolds says, maybe Obama's not trying to destroy the country, but if he were, what would he have done differently?

Lance said...

@MadisonMan
Proof might mean something different to me than to you. For me, it means running experiments with variables, and that's difficult to do with an economy.

Quantitative methods are just one way to produce evidence. Qualitative methods also work.

For example, I don't have to know the specific numbers to prove that spending money to buy and destroy valuable assets (like cars and trucks) would not help the economy.

Seven Machos said...

Mick -- The case dicta you keep citing here does not help your case. It could just as easily be used as an argument for Obama's eligibility.

Moreover, the holding of the case you cite was that a woman could not vote because she was a woman.

Do you really believe that any federal judge in the United States will quash a democratic mandate based on a case that prevented women from voting?

Curious George said...

Hey Obama stopped the seas from rising. Don't be an ingrate.

Looking forward to 2012 Obama will have the well heeled libs, unions, and blacks out in force. The former because they feel morally superior and are doing okay, the latter two because more than ever they need the free shit.

But a lot of white suburban youth that graduated over the last four years, and are still looking for a job, have learned that Hope and Change aren't enough to get you out of living with mom and dad. This narcissistic generation is gonna drop Obama like he had a case of clap.

Original Mike said...

"It’s next door to Sweden and it’s lovely lakes, isn’t it?"

I believe you are correct, Joe. All we saw of Sweden was the Stockholm airport, which is kind of a dump. The Oslo airport, OTOH, is fabulous.

Seven Machos said...

Was Roosevelt still blaming Hoover in 1936? I don't know...

Mick said...

Seven Machos said,

"I have said that calling Obama ineligible is wrong, un-American, stupid, and batshit crazy."


Right, like all Leftists do. "The Constitution is an anachronism, a throw back to a different time, and doesn't need to be followed anymore. It's in need of an update."

Leftists have been attempting to change the meaning of natural born Citizen for years, this is well planned.

It's wrong to stand up and call the putative POTUS what he is? A Usurper and America destroyer, who was handpicked for the job precisely for his lack of Love and Attachment to the US? Nah, It's wrong and Un American not to.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
"It’s next door to Sweden and it’s lovely lakes, isn’t it?"

I believe you are correct, Joe. All we saw of Sweden was the Stockholm airport, which is kind of a dump. The Oslo airport, OTOH, is fabulous.


You could have used its wonderful telephone system…or taken a bit of time out to have to have seen the mani interesting furry animals of Sweden.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Leftists have been attempting to change the meaning of natural born Citizen for years, this is well planned.


The it’s good you have a crafty well-laid, and SECRET plan, to combat their plan…..

Pogo said...

The flash mob attacks by youthful urban Obama voters are another meme with legs.

Running legs, smash-n-grab arms.
Thanks, Barry!

gerry said...

A meme doesn't have to be true to spread but it helps.

What about spreading a meme with legs?

garage mahal said...

So "it's Bush's fault" is the alternative to "Obama made it worse.

Forget Bush. I'm talking Republicans like Cantor, Ryan, and Boehner that all voted for policies like 4 trillion wars and tax cuts that we are still paying for, and still on our debt. Read this and weep

bgates said...

You have nothing but right wing talking points.

That's true.

Back when Bush was President, we also had jobs.

Mick said...

Seven Machos said...
"Mick -- The case dicta you keep citing here does not help your case. It could just as easily be used as an argument for Obama's eligibility.

Moreover, the holding of the case you cite was that a woman could not vote because she was a woman.

Do you really believe that any federal judge in the United States will quash a democratic mandate based on a case that prevented women from voting?"



It's not Dicta. Judge Waite first had to decide that Minor was indeed a Citizen in order to be guarenteed the protections of the 14th Amendment, and said as such, specifically. Further, he specifically said that the 14th A was not needed to determine that she was a US Citizen, construing A2S1C5 instead.
Boyd v. Nebraska cited Waite's passage about Original citizenship as the basis of the holding in that case, that Boyd was a Citizen because he was a Citizen of the Nebraska Territory at the time it was made a state. So the case has precedential value as to citizenship also.

"Citizen parents" is the requirement (repeated in Resolution 511), not A Citizen parent.

So answer the question, If the reason for the requirement was to prevent foreign influence then how can Obama, born BRITISH be a natural born Citizen? Cat got your tongue?

Pogo said...

"Was Roosevelt still blaming Hoover in 1936?"

In 1936, FDR was blaming the 'economic royalists'.

Jay said...

I'm talking Republicans like Cantor, Ryan, and Boehner that all voted for policies like 4 trillion wars and tax cuts

Um, Obama signed those tax cuts and war spending bills.

It is almost as if your posts are parody.

AllenS said...

Excuse me, garage, but obama seems to be involved in more wars now, than when Bush was president.

Jay said...

Read this and weep


Er, that isn't a fact.

It is meant for not that bright, easily misled simpletons like you.

Tax cuts (that Obama signed) do not create a deficit. They are not spending.

Robert Cook said...

"Finally, ever notice how Robert Cook shuts his hole every time I ask him to cite a law allowing the prosecution of war crimes?"

That's because anyone asking the question is simply refusing to accept the truth. You can look up the relevant information if you really want it.

There are prosecutions for war crimes from time to time...some even going on presently. The only thing protecting our homegrown war criminals for their crimes of mass murder and torture and aggressive wars is that no one wants to fuck with the big dog. If we collapse while some of these war criminals still live they may still yet face justice. (As it is, Donny Rumsfeld had to flee France a couple of years back to avoid the prospect of arrest.)

Coketown said...

Nobody believes the president has anything but a marginal effect on the economy, if any effect at all. But everybody says they believe it when they're in power and the economy is awesome, or when they're out of power and the economy is terrible.

In more shocking news, tax cuts don't raise revenue but they are stimulative devices. That should give conservatives and liberals something to stew over for a bit.

Jay said...

PS, from 2003 to 2006, federal revenues went up by 44%.

There isn't a "tax cut" problem or a revenue problem.

You idiot.

Pogo said...

Will the 'corporate jets' meme beat 'Obama made the economy worse'?

He's tried 'It's Bush's fault' and 'Gimme time' and 'I won'.

He need some suggestions.

Gals?
Fellas?
Help Barry out here.
What's his winning meme?

I propose Don't even THINK of voting for the cracker.

Michael said...

Garage: Here is a right wing talking point for you. 9% unemployment. Official unemployment. Most believe the actual rate is double that. Right wing talking point.

Left wing talking point. millionaires and billionaires. Say it over and over. like a chant.

9% unemployment.

Pogo said...

You may be unemployed and broke, but I killed Osama barehanded!!1!

Jay said...

that all voted for policies like 4 trillion wars

We spent a trillion a year on Social Security, medicare, and medicaid.

You have no problem with that.

Funny, isn't it?

Canuck said...

"So "it's Bush's fault" is the alternative to "Obama made it worse." Those are 2 memes competing to infect the voters' minds. Which will prevail in 2012?"

I guess I'm an economic structuralist in predicting political outcomes in this economy. I don't think memes or political rhetoric will have much force in the next election.

Voters will elect a Republican president unless the GOP candidate handicaps himself/herself. The candidate doesn't need a good meme with unemployment at 9.1% - all the candidate needs to say is how's that economy going for you?

Matt said...

Sloanasaurus
Obama is the most anti-business president since FDR.

Patently false. I work in a small business and the tax incentives that Obama has set up for hiring [for instance] are far better than they were under Bush. Not to mention that Federal taxes are at a 60 year low and taxes on Corporate income as a percentage of GDP is 1.8%.

If anything Obama has been quite fair to business. What he hasn't done is cut taxes to zero and given away the entire treasury back to the wealthy. But would that work?

Michael said...

"Nobody believes the president has anything but a marginal effect on the economy, if any effect at all."

Pro business presidents positively impact the economy. Anti business presidents not so much. Not more complicated than that. Attitude.

Old Dad said...

An Obama meme.

Save Medicare. Throw grandma under the bus. I did!

Original Mike said...

"It’s next door to Sweden and it’s lovely lakes, isn’t it?"

I've been told that the two regions of the world with the highest density of small lakes are northern Minnesota/Ontario and the region NW of Stockholm. I've canoed the Boundary Water/Quetico region a lot. I've always wanted to do the same in Sweden. I'm really looking forward to Althouse moving her blog there.

Coketown said...

Pro business presidents positively impact the economy.

A marginal impact maybe. Otherwise, I'd love to see data that quantifies that statement.

Michael said...

Matt: What hiring incentive are you referring to? Give the code reference if you will. Thanks

Original Mike said...

"Excuse me, garage, but obama seems to be involved in more wars now, than when Bush was president."

Kinetic military operations, Allen.

Seven Machos said...

Robert Cook -- Please provide a link to a single source explaining how France intended to arrest Donald Rumsfeld for war crimes. Surely, there was an indictment, right?

AJ Lynch said...

Matt- I deal with many small businesses and none that I know of hires people because the govt will give them a $3,000 tax credit.

Mick said...

The MSM is slowly coming around to the fact of Obama's Usurpation.
American Thinker with a particularly lucid artical today that correctly addresses A2S1C5:

“It is also possible to believe that Obama was born in Hawaii but is not eligible for the presidency. His father’s lack of US citizenship and temporary US domicile, Obama junior’s admitted dual citizenship, and Obama’s possible Indonesian citizenship are substantive issues that affect what many believe was the contention of the Constitution’s framers: that the Commander-in-Chief have undivided allegiance at birth and thereafter.”

“Obama and Hillary signed SR 511 early in 2008, a resolution that granted McCain “natural born” status based on the fact that both his parents were US citizens at the time of his birth on the Naval base in Panama. Obama then spent the next three years, aided by the media, playing games with his own eligibility. Instead of noting that unseemly fact, Coulter brags that conservatives “denounce their nuts.” ”

“Coulter’s sweeping definition of a “nut” includes those who question Obama’s eligibility after reading — for example, a quote by John Bingham (the author of the 14th Amendment), which defines “natural born citizen” as one born in the country “to parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.” Such otherwise “enlightened truth-seekers” are instead considered idiots for noting that Obama’s father owed no allegiance to the US.”

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/birther_card_coulters_turn.html

Slowly but surely, drip, drip, drip...in due time.

Seven Machos said...

Coke -- The issue is about confidence. People aren't going to hire, invest, etc. if they don't feel confident about it being successful. Thus, the need for working markets and credible regulation and protections but not draconian red tape.

There is, indeed, a Golden Mean to guide our footsteps.

Jay said...

the tax incentives that Obama has set up for hiring

And there you have it.

To those who think government should command and control the economy, a "tax incentive for hiring" is "business friendly"

While ignoring more regulations, the "health care reform" and the proposed increase on income tax.

If a patient were wheeled into the operating room suffering cardiac arrest and the doctor cut off his foot, and right arm, you'd be clapping that he's on a gurney, right?

Wow are you people stupid...

Trooper York said...

Of course a Green Bay fan would love Norway. Full of dirty Scandi's, reindeer sweaters and herring.

When I go on vacation it has to be hot with a beach. Like Hawaii or the Caribbean or Vegas.

Not with fjords.

I mean I just saw Thor and when they threw him out of Asgard where did he go on his vacation.....New Mexico. Not a herring in site.

Seven Machos said...

I work in a small business and the tax incentives that Obama has set up for hiring [for instance] are far better than they were under Bush.

Why does unemployment continue to stay above nine percent if this policy is such a wise one?

Think hard. Maybe you can come up with some rhetorical dagger. Or deftly change the subject...

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

And this topic (quite predictably) heads toward 200+ comments...

Trooper York said...

Now you may think Vegas doesn't have any beaches but I like to stay in the Mandalay Bay which has a beach in it's pool area with a wave machine that is pretty cool. So it it almost like you are in the Caribbean.

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