March 22, 2011

"This no-fly zone doesn’t mean anything to us because Gaddafi only had a few planes and they were doing nothing."

"We need a no-drive zone because it is tanks and snipers that are killing us."

Obama's aloofness/aloftness isn't working.

97 comments:

Palladian said...

Jesus, can't that irritating Gates let Obama have his Brazilian vacation in peace?? I mean, the man deserves a break!

Chef Mojo said...

@Althouse:

Obama's aloofness/aloftness isn't working.

This isn't exactly a revelation. It's merely the latest iteration of an ongoing trend with Obama.

kent said...

Jesus, can't that irritating Gates let Obama have his Brazilian vacation in peace?? I mean, the man deserves a break!

"Can't you guys just let me finish my Sambaaaaaaaaaaaaa -- ?!?"

PaulV said...

Sad, but not unexpected. Not even up to Carter's presidency.

DADvocate said...

It's really quite simple.

The guy is

wrapped up in his own ego,

in over his head

and

doesn't

have

a

clue.

Carol_Herman said...

CATNIP!

Americans love our military! Obama is stuck getting to solutions on the on-going Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

Here is a PICK UP! Ghaddafi isn't gonna last long. He's nuts! Our planes, meaning everybody who is IN, have managed to dimish Ghaddafi's military response, AS WELL as his secret police's ability to terrorize Libyans.

Oh. And, at "Stage 2" with planes in the air, heading for Tripoli, the pilots were called back to base because of "human shields."

The human shields were journalists from the AP, Reuters, and CNN. Their value to Obama was greater than just letting the "mission" proceed.

What if the potential for WINNING is strongly in Obama's favor?

Ghaddafi's cult status has been diminished. You could write a whole war book about why this works, even late in the day.

The anti-war movement? You're as welcome to them as you are the religious nutters. Nobody's gonna spit on American military. And, no. You can't knock Obama off on this one.

But you can damage republicans like nobody's business.

Gene said...

This is what is known as "mission creep." First a no-fly zone, then a naval blockade, now a no-drive zone. Next will be boots on the ground for the next ten years, paid for by borrowing from China. If it's so critical to dump Gaddafi why isn't the Arab League pitching in?

Chef Mojo said...

@Gene:

Oh, the Arab League is pitching in like they always do: With cash transfers to us.

How else do you pay mercenaries?

kent said...

This isn't exactly a revelation. It's merely the latest iteration of an ongoing trend with Obama.

Yup.

traditionalguy said...

Gaddafi is winning this war of poker bluffing words with Obama. Gaddafi has guts. He has figured out that the gutless Obama will never send in the Marines, so his only danger will be from French special forces or from Hillary taking command of the Marines for a week. In the meantime Gaddafi will pump no oil. Maybe some country will get his idle drilling rigs along with some trained terrorists in exchange for Russian weapons shipped out of Venezuela.

LYNNDH said...

They, at least the French and British, are hitting the tanks. I belive US is too. Problem is now that the tanks are in cities. To kill them would mean killing civilians. Still think that Q's mercanaries (SP?) will start to run. They are not paid to die.

Issob Morocco said...

Damn where is that chapter in the Community Organizer Handbook on stopping ground troops......

Maguro said...

Apparently we are going to try to extricate ourselves from this in a few days by pulling back our combat aircraft and letting the French or NATO run daily operations. We'll only provide support functions like aerial refueling and electronic warfare.

That's the plan, anyway. What happens if the allied air campaign doesn't produce results is anybody's guess.

Phil 3:14 said...

Driving home listening to an interview with Gates I was struck with the similarities between Libya 2011 and Iraq 2003. but with key differences:

-then a reluctant Sec State and a pushy Sec Def; now a pushy Sec State and a reluctant Sec Def
-then a coalition of nations but clearly pushed forward by the US; now a coalition of nations with no clear leader, just good intentions
-then over a year of threats and suggestions; now a weekend surprise.

Thankfully the crew of the crashed plane was rescued because its too early to have the dictator's "people" parade around the mutilated or charred remains of an American serviceman (but I fear that's in the script)

Issob Morocco said...

Seriously, how do we remove Obama so as to stop the free fall in world confidence as to the only Super Power being so feckless?

Can we impeach on grounds of incompetence?

Chef Mojo said...

Still think that Q's mercanaries (SP?) will start to run. They are not paid to die.

You don't take back most of a country the size of Libya with just mercenaries. Especially when you're using armor. Qadaffi's loyalists are the one's driving the tanks and BMPs, as well as mobile artillery and rocket units. Sure, there's some conscripted "mercenaries" as infantry, but I think the mercenary meme is mostly opposition propaganda.

William said...

A moment of transcendental fubar, even by Middle East standards. The only dynamic there is that all change is for the worst....Gaddafi, not Obama, is the villian here, but not even Chris Matthews would be able to portray Obama as the hero in this hairball.

The Crack Emcee said...

Jesus, you just can't please some people.

You know what they need? They need to man up. Really, they need The Macho Response.

The Grand Inquisitor said...

75% of crack emcee's comments are merely spam for his blog with no value to the thread at all.

And his blog sucks.

The rest of the time he's crying about something.

I don't know what the macho response to spammers is, but the normal response to spammers is to ban them.

Almost Ali said...

Can we impeach [Obama] on grounds of incompetence?

Technically, yes. Politically, no.

Politically because it would be a blatant admission by Democrats that they elected a man so unqualified and made such an egregious mistake so as to render the party itself incompetent.

gadfly said...

No Warplanes? Deja vu all over again!

Russert: The night you took the country to war, March 17th, you said this: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

President Bush: Right.

Russert: That apparently is not the case.

President Bush: Correct.

Russert:
How do you respond to critics who say that you brought the nation to war under false pretenses?

President Bush: Yes. First of all, I expected to find the weapons. Sitting behind this desk making a very difficult decision of war and peace, and I based my decision on the best intelligence possible, intelligence that had been gathered over the years, intelligence that not only our analysts thought was valid but analysts from other countries thought were valid.

Revenant said...

I'm not going to complain that Obama is on vacation. We would probably be better off if he stayed in Brazil forever.

As for his inaction on Libya, thus far he hasn't been inactive enough. I've got no problem with overthrowing Gaddafi, but why do WE have to be the ones to do it? For pity's sake, we've already toppled one Muslim theocracy and one Arab dictatorship just in the last decade. Let somebody else cowboy up and make the world safe for democracy for once.

Almost Ali said...

The Grand Inquisitor said...
75% of [C]rack [E]mcee's comments are merely spam...

Disagree. Crack Emcee is one of the most gifted writers/thinkers here - and when motivated, quite possibly the most gifted.

Carol_Herman said...

The "hardware and the software" that made money transfers possible for Daffy Duck to do, have been degraded.

Michael Totten, a long time ago, reported on a trip he took to Libya. With pictures. Libya was a moonscape! Soviets built the housing. And, streets were so wide, keeping people apart, the only think Totten learned was that people were terrified to speak ill of "Q" ... for fear of the secret police. And, being carted off in the night.

People in Libya did not love their cult leader.

Support for these despots does dwindle. Just look at what happened to Mubarak. A man who tried to get the habit of circumcising women stopped. To no avail. The "custom" destroys the genitalia on baby girls, upward to 90% of them.

Nobody knows the future. But Obama is looking to get out from under Bush's blunders. What if Libya is such a ticket?

Our military is loved and respected by most people. That now it's the republicans who are anti-war? Be my guest. How far can you spit?

Obama also saved the lives of the journalists who ran in to take pictures of the destruction in Tripoli. He saved them from the missiles. He made the planes go back to base, when they were fully loaded. And, on their way! Priorities, it seems to me, are also weighing in on this game plan. Which I call CATNIP.

Revenant said...

Gaddafi has guts.

Don't confuse having no alternatives with having guts.

Mark said...

Carol, you realize that catnip, while enjoyable, doesn't really do anything good for the cat, right?

Sort of like golf.

Fen said...

DHOTUS

Diversity Hire Of The United States.

Can we have Bill back, please? We'll even throw in some Hooters chicks as interns.

Or Valenti. I hear she's an adoring fan.

Rose said...

Now the CNN guys say they were not used as human shields and are quite outraged, calling FOX liars... what is the truth? Anyone know?

Seven Machos said...

Cat nip does lower cats' heart rates considerably.

madawaskan said...

Has any President ever committed US forces so casually?

I'm asking this because I can't remember any military action being announced to the American public by a President from outside the Oval Office let alone from outside the country.

I don't remember, how about Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Reagan and the Grenada Invasion?

Or hell Carter and Operation Eagle Claw?

I think Carter made a bigger deal out of boycotting the Moscow Olympics.

Mark said...

How would the CNN hostages know whether they were human shields or not?

Stupid.

madawaskan said...

President Obama puts himself in a double bind almost immediately.

President Obama thought the situation in Libya was important enough to ask members of the American military to put themselves in harms way, it just wasn't important enough to skip the trip to Rio to consolidate support for the mission and essentially the US military.

Hagar said...

I am all for taking out Gadhafi, but I do not understand this operation. It is getting to look more like a combination Ferrari pitstop and Chinese fire drill by the hour.
Nor can it be quite as much a spur of the moment decision as the MSM make it appear. It would surely have taken some time to get the submarines and other launch assets in place, but there does not seem to have been any coordination with anybody except perhaps some loose phonecalls.

I surely hope this ends well, but if so, I will consider it evidence that the Good Lord not only looks out for drunks, little children, and the English, but the Americans as well.

Fen said...

what is the truth? Anyone know?

Well, considering that CNN was the one who censored reporting of Saddam's rape rooms and torture chambers in exchange for access... I would trust Richard Nixon over them.

former law student said...

Obama turned to the GHW Bush/ Bill Clinton playbook of what to do with a country that tries to kill its own people. The play is to establish a No-Fly Zone.

Now, he could go to the JFK/LBJ playbook of what to do when a country is having a civil war -- oppose the rebel forces, commit hundreds of thousands of troops and reinstate the draft.

Fen said...

I am all for taking out Gadhafi, but I do not understand this operation.

Word is we intend to degrade his strength without taking him down.

Its like no one reads Machiavelli these days.

Lionheart said...

Where do I get one of those golf playing cats? Mine just sticks to soccer without a goal.

Coketown said...

Like his last campaign--the one that supposedly offered sufficient evidence of executive experience--, Obama thought this campaign would sort of run itself. If it's a success (have we defined success for this adventure yet?), Obama can step up and organize a community for the newly liberated Libyans.

madawaskan said...

Or Dante but to what rings of hell?


Today when Kadafi was on CNN I was hoping a JDAM would drop down and turn his green mumu into confetti.

Something akin to the ultimate you lose! ticker tape parade.

vbspurs said...

Kent! I can see Obama's package in that photo, ick. Please issue gale and tsunami warnings next time.

Cheers,
Victoria

bgates said...

the Good Lord not only looks out for drunks, little children, and the English?

I've never heard a reference to the English in that expression.

Fort said...

Said:

I remember, when we used to say: "In the government you're entrenched now."

Next to Buckley, Bob Marley stands alone (if twere possible given the conjecture).

vbspurs said...

Obama's aloofness/aloftness isn't working.

You know, I had thought that President Obama had turned a corner domestically in December. Whilst not liking his politics, I appreciated his growing maturity to deal with the new Congressional state of affairs. For the first time, he looked composed, less amateurish (the Clinton stunt, notwithstanding).

Then came Tunisia, Egypt, and now Libya. Oh, Lord, it's amateur hour, all over again.

Just how much does this President miss a steady, knowledgeable diplomatic hand like Richard Holbrooke, eh? Biden is literally a waste of space, and Hillary is enervated by Obama.

The situation for America, is close being tragic.

Johnny said...

Damn too bad NEObama is still mobilizing his civilain defense force! This would be a good training mission for them. Take out a few loyalists and be home for dinner. I mean he did say his CDF was gonna be better funded than the military. They could chant OBama Obama. Killing in the name of!

Fort said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64QkD5pBWWE


I assume too much.

But that being said, my feet are nearly my only carriage.

Methadras said...

This is what rock bottom leftism looks like. Incompetent, maleficent, fraudulent, absent, egotistical, haughty, and mendacious. The audacity of hope? The hope to be able to have fooled so many people into believing this idiot actually understands what he says or thinks.

AST said...

I just saw video of Khadaffi haranguing his troops at the compound the Brits had bombed earlier. I thought, why oh why couldn't we get somebody in that crowd with a laser designator and a bomber with a few JDAMs overhead.

Johnny said...

Now, he could go to the JFK/LBJ playbook of what to do when a country is having a civil war -- oppose the rebel forces, commit hundreds of thousands of troops and reinstate the draft.

I wouldn't put it past him at this point. You leftists are obsessed with bringing the draft back and the press has tried to claim he is is JFK numerous times.

madawaskan said...

I thought, why oh why couldn't we get somebody in that crowd with a laser designator and a bomber with a few JDAMs overhead.

Well say you came up with this idea-this would be when someone in the State Department would not only remind you of the UN resolution but at the same time come up with some spider web in the cave story...wait....that was Osama.

Well some damn Muslim allegory which would say you can't JDAM him when he's in the green mumu because then the Poopy Doopy Iman of the Five Swords is suppose to....oh forget it.

They always know best.

It's Hillary's/ the State Department's War.

Speaking of Machiavelli at least Hillary knows where most of the bones are buried except well....you know.

The one right under her...or not.

madawaskan said...

Actually I think this is CNN's war.

Revenant said...

Now, he could go to the JFK/LBJ playbook of what to do when a country is having a civil war -- oppose the rebel forces, commit hundreds of thousands of troops and reinstate the draft.

The Vietnam war was not a civil war. North Vietnam and South Vietnam were separate nations with separate governments. The former invaded the later.

The NVA were not "rebel forces". They were an invading army. You could perhaps argue that the Vietcong were "rebels", but since they were financed by the North they were more like a fifth column.

vbspurs said...

Ooh, I hope not. That would mean Anderson Cooper is Omar Bradley.

vbspurs said...

wv: hemanes (what Anderson likes in his bed)

Fort said...

Life is one big road with lots of signs. So when you ridin' through the ruts, don't complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief, and jealousy. Don't bury your thoughts, put your vision to reality. Wake up and Live!

-- Supposedly (according to that druggie-type link before) Mr. Bob Marley

Fort said...

Max Ehrmann


Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.


Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.


Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.


Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.


Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.


Max Ehrmann, Desiderata, Copyright 1952

jr565 said...

I think Carol is ingesting the catnip.

madawaskan said...

Oh gawd he's no Omar Bradley. Omar Bradley was a soldier's general.

*****
Just remember back when the Democrats said nothing that we did mattered because we never killed Osama.

Now, because well just because we are not going to kill Kadafi.

former law student said...

North Vietnam and South Vietnam were separate nations with separate governments.

Just like the USA and the CSA. Jefferson Davis, the whole enchilada.

rhhardin said...

Belmont Club

Only Barack Obama could be incompetent enough to give the project of overthrowing Khadaffi a bad name.

rhhardin said...

David Limbaugh: "Operation Facepalm."

Revenant said...

Just like the USA and the CSA.

Not even remotely.

A better parallel would be if the United States decided to invade Canada, and justified this by pointing out that we used to be part of the same empire a couple of hundred years ago. And then a few decades after that, some douchebag came along to explain how it was really just a civil war.

edutcher said...

First, Revenant, thanks for setting the record straight on 'Nam. I'm so damned sick of that "civil war" lie, like so many of the other Leftist lies I've been hearing all my life.

Second, Ann's point is on the money and we knew it a couple of weeks ago. Nobody paying attention thought no-fly would work any better now than it did in the 90s.

Phil 3:14 said...

Driving home listening to an interview with Gates I was struck with the similarities between Libya 2011 and Iraq 2003. but with key differences:

-then a reluctant Sec State and a pushy Sec Def; now a pushy Sec State and a reluctant Sec Def


Have to disagree. Iraq was the baby of Powell, Holbrooke, and Tenet. Rumsfeld, from what I've read, thought A-stan was more than enough and wanted no part of Iraq.

Second, don't take anything Robert Gates says too seriously. Again, from what I've read, he has a rep for telling people what they want to hear (his nickname at the Company was, "The Survivor") and was generally viewed as one of the worst analysts in the history of intel. He is doing a CYA IMHO.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"We are the ones we've been waiting for".

Never mind we have no clue about anything else other than patting ourselves on the back. We have spent so much time pulling the wool over everybody's eyes, that we haven't done our homework and are predictably ill-equipped to lead the United States in today's world.

Liberals - people that know so much about so many things that simply aren't so.

BTW - I went to bed last night after picking up the boy at the high school from ball practice - it was 40 degrees, calm, and clear. Woke up this AM, 3+ inches of snow on the ground...who ordered this??? For Pete's sake its almost April!!!

Uncle.

kent said...

And then a few decades after that, some douchebag came along to explain how it was really just a civil war.

Heh. ;)

Roger J. said...

Good comments all (well most)

I am most interested in a narrower sense in the command structure--The US has created a unified command (Africa Command), but while Lybia is technicall in Africa it should be more under the purview of CENTCOM.

Speaks to how bureauractic structures end up running things that may be out of their area of competence--I sympathize with GEN Ham, (CINC of Africa Command) trying to coordinate forces that are normally under the European Command--and trying to run a coalition war involving NATO allies

This will not come out well I fear.

Roger J. said...

oops--Libya in the previous post

AllenS said...

If Gaddafi is looking to replace any destroyed airplanes, he should contact Claire McCaskill. She's selling her airplane. She'd rather sell the damned thing than pay taxes on it. Gaddafi might be able to pick it up cheap.

Rube said...

Don't Tread 2012, I can remember 16" on Easter Weekend back in the late 70's just north of Saratoga. The last snowmobile trip of the year.

Rube said...

Allen S. Off Topic, but interesting. Claire McCaskill's plane is a Pilatus PC-12 Swiss made, Single engine turbo prop. Worth around $2Million. Her back taxes are $287,283 spread out over 4 years.

Windbag said...

Rome had its circus maximus. We have circus barackus.

Václav Patrik Šulik said...

Should I stay or should I go now
Should I stay or should I go now
If I go there will be trouble
and if I stay it will be double
so c'mon and let me know

this indecision's buggin me
if you don't want me set me free
exactly whom I'm s'posed to be
don'tcha know which clothes even fit me
c'mon and let me know
should I cool it or should I blow?

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Rube

Yeah, spring seems to come slowly here in western NY...I hope this is the last snowfall this year.

jerryofva said...

Before you go to war you have to ask yourself what comes next. We haven't asked that question.

I post this without further comment:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/eastern-libyas-tribes-jihadism-did-u-s-consider-its-own-libya-intel/

Kirby Olson said...

Just wanted to say I like the Crack Emcee. Enjoy his comments pretty thoroughly.

I wish Obama had a brain.

"If he only had a brain," could be his theme song. Of course he also could use some courage, and a few other things, like a birth certificate.

Kirby Olson said...

We're supposed to get 6 to 10 inches today in the Catskills. It's coming down heavily right now.

Kirby Olson said...

The only people Obama seems to want to come down hard on is the unborn. They're so awful! He just wants to wipe them all off the face of the earth. Once you're born, Obama is all smiles. He might need your vote.

Fred4Pres said...

The WaPo is no longer in the Administration's pocket. If this adventure goes south, Barack Obama's leadership will look pretty poor.

AllenS said...

Just returned from a trip out to the barn. Looks like almost 6 inches of fresh heavy snow. Damnit!

Rube, I didn't know that her plane was foreign made. Kinda like Kerry and his foreign made boat. Typical liberals.

Fred4Pres said...

Crack Emcee is one of the most gifted writers/thinkers here - and when motivated, quite possibly the most gifted.


Agreed. When he is on a roll, he is the best.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

Sorry about your snow AllenS. We just have cold cold rain here, and a little sleet.

Liz Taylor has died. RIP.

Lem said...

I just heard Liz Taylor has died.

ricpic said...

Liz Taylor desperately needed a strong man. She found one in Mike Todd. Then he died and she was lost again. All the rest, including Richard Burton, were background music.

Der Hahn said...

edutcher - Iraq was the baby of Powell, Holbrooke, and Tenet.

I'd substitue Cheney for Powell.

The real story of the Wilson/Plame affair (remember that the first mention of her was Richard Armitage giving out the provenance of Wilson's tea-sipping vacation) is the disdain that State had for the WMD crew at CIA.

I'm fully convinced that Powell knew very well that Tenet's evidence was no 'slam-dunk', that the UN would ignore the evidence he presented, and that he purposely screwed the pooch at pressuring Turkey to allow us to send the 4th ID through their territory.

He didn't want Cheney and W borrowing 'his' army.

AllenS said...

MadMan.

Yesterday, we had cold and rainey weather. It was also a very windy day.

AllenS said...

Listening to the radio, all of the schools around here are closed.

AllenS said...

At the last anti-Walker teacher protest gathering, the featured native dancer's name was Joey Snowmaker. Go figure.

Just Lurking said...

Disagree. Crack Emcee is one of the most gifted writers/thinkers here - and when motivated, quite possibly the most gifted.

Agreed. He's got a unique and honest voice. I enjoy Crack Emcee's comments.

Jason said...

I vote to retain the Crack Emcee.

Gaia the earth goddess commanded me to.

jr565 said...

By the way, being the neocon that I am, I can find plenty of reasons to do a regime change on Libya, so I in theory supoort this. If we can get him out no muss no fuss, then hell, let's go. And let's use the same justification and same no fly zones to then take out Irans regime and Syria's. Or say to France, since we helped you here you better not dick us on Iran or we will bury you. Only, if we're gong to do it, lets at least no why we;re going in, and lets have some plans beyond simply going in. I mean, Obama keeps mutering about regime change, yet that's not what the UNs mandate is for (which is why the Russians got so pissed off that we started bombing Libya). And lets have a plan that extends beyond "we're going to set up no fly zones". and then? "Well, we havent' thought that far ahead yet.
And lets also take out these regimes if its in our interest to do so.
I can see much more reason to remove Syria and particularly Iran than Libya.
Lets also hold our allies to acount and make the apologize for dicking over the US when it came to Iraq. If we hadn't had just a counterinsurgency here and abroad against an obvious just act it would have cost a third as much and all our troops would have likely been home by now.

Almost Ali said...

CentCom Update:

To all Airmen/Pilots: Catch-22 shall be observed for the duration. You are not allowed to bomb Qaddafi compound(s) while he is there. You may, however, bomb his compound(s) when he is out.

Signed,
Barry Obama, CIC

former law student said...

Not even remotely.

A better parallel would be if the United States decided to invade Canada, and justified this by pointing out that we used to be part of the same empire a couple of hundred years ago. And then a few decades after that, some douchebag came along to explain how it was really just a civil war.


Dude, Viet Nam was partitioned in 1954, not hundreds of years previously. What are you babbling about?

former law student said...

Maybe this 1965 article by Hans Morgenthau will help dispel the rev's confusion:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad
/intrel/vietnam/hans%27.htm

Revenant said...

Dude, Viet Nam was partitioned in 1954

"Dude", South Vietnam had been culturally and politically distinct from North Vietnam for centuries. Read a history book sometime.

Revenant said...

Or, heck, talk to some actual Vietnamese immigrants. There are plenty in southern California.

former law student said...

"Dude", South Vietnam had been culturally and politically distinct from North Vietnam for centuries. Read a history book sometime.

You've convinced me. The American Civil War was misnamed, because the Southern states' plantation system manned by slaves made them culturally distinct from the North, and their insistence on states' rights over federalism made them politically distinct. These distinctions went back a couple of centuries, making the war between North ViAmerica and South ViAmerica identical to the conditions rev stated for the Vietnamese Noncivil War.

former law student said...

heck, talk to some actual Vietnamese immigrants. There are plenty in southern California.

As useful as talking to Confederate veterans. The South will rise again!