September 3, 2009

"[L]adies, ladies, ladies..." — *you* are the whores!

"[S]o many of you have been cool, supportive and loving. But there are those of you out there who just love to judge."

Love to judge Ashley Dupre, the prostitute who did business with Eliot Spitzer.
Let me say this - most girls, to varying degrees of course, want to be pampered and have nice shoes, designer handbags and gorgeous clothes. I know many women who target guys with money and use them to get these things. They toy with them, flirt, go on dates, have sex and then drop hints about that new dress at the store down the street or being short on rent money – and the guys deliver it. This is a dishonest relationship. I see this all over New York City. Some women aren’t as vindictive, but still dive into relationships with wealthy guys who they don’t love or even find attractive, but they stay in it because they have a nice home, a car and spending money – they would rather stay in an unfulfilling or loveless relationship than lose that security. This, too, is a dishonest relationship.
You, ladies, you are whores too.
I see this type all over the suburbs of New Jersey with the housewives who are strung out on mood stabilizers or the couples who put all their attention on their children so they don’t have to deal with their own issues. What about going to those sugar daddy websites? Is that legal? Should it be? Is what I did any more dishonest? Get real and get over yourself.
Yeah, get over yourselves, ladies. Judge me? I judge you!
You’d be shocked at some of the messes I’ve gotten myself into....and, more importantly, how I got out of them. I have so much more to say, and I will – but it’s time for Yoga class! Om Shanti!
Om Shanti!

56 comments:

Florida said...

Come on, Ann.

This is why men usually aren't even arrested.

It's the women who commit the crime. Prostitution is a crime. "Being a john" isn't a crime.

And judging from what I've seen of the internet ... there is an endless supply of women willing to do an. y. thing.

Salamandyr said...

But Florida, that doesn't follow the traditional narrative of the woman as the victim.

Ann Althouse said...

@Florida I don't see how your comment relates to the post. No one's talking about men. It's about different women and how more of them should be categorized along with prostitutes.

John Althouse Cohen said...

Previously...

John Althouse Cohen said...

(#7)

Florida said...

@althouse

Well, then ... let's count this as one of those posts where your readers might assume you're posting for one reason, when in face, you're posting in support of the quoted premise.

I withdraw my comment (until you actually declare!)

Laura(southernxyl) said...

I see this type all over the suburbs of New Jersey with the housewives who are strung out on mood stabilizers

She has personally witnessed this? Housewives strung out on mood stabilizers all over NJ suburbs have been viewed by her? I doubt it.

dix said...

Reminds me of the headline from the Onion "Housewife nabbed in Sex-for-Security Scam"

wv: evitra-Argentinian Viagra

Florida said...

Dix that's priceless.

Florida said...

evitra ... no way that was your word verification!

ricpic said...

Adherence to the simple life would solve all this. All this being the woman as whore syndrome.

Maxine Weiss said...

Makes me wonder about the history and background of a typical Yoga enthusiast.

Pilates too---a lot of these people are trash.

Love,
Maxine

former law student said...

Too bad for Ashley -- apparently she's never enjoyed sex for its own sake, because she believes all women exchange sex for economic advantage.

William said...

I think a video with Levi and Ashley would be a big best seller.

rhhardin said...

She's good on the cello.

ricpic said...

Rock climbers---a lot of these people are trash.

Florida said...

"... because she believes all women exchange sex for economic advantage."

That might be because the majority of woman she's come into contact with in her life was of this sort. Therefore, she believes that most, if not all woman are of this sort.

I believe that all women (and probably all men) trade parts of themselves for security at some points in their lives.

We're all whores. Sex is just another way we get things that works better for women than men because ... well, let's face it, women are hotter.

Freeman Hunt said...

She has personally witnessed this? Housewives strung out on mood stabilizers all over NJ suburbs have been viewed by her? I doubt it.

I agree with Laura. Sounds like this "You're all a bunch of whores!"-woman has been watching too many soaps or bad movies.

ricpic said...

Women are hotter. But men age better (on average).

chickenlittle said...

Judge me? I judge you!

One cruel thing about fame is that Ms Dupre actually can't judge "them" because she has no clue who "they" really are, while "they" know exactly who she is.
I've never understood that about celebrities-all the whining about how unfair all the negative attention can be-get over it!

Curtiss said...

Gee, a hooker suggesting other women are prostitutes, too. That's different from anything seen or known before.

Perhaps she's just trying to transition from "downward facing dog" to "upward facing dog".

Or maybe she's hoping for a Bollywood film role.

bagoh20 said...

If as a man your experience is that women give sex for money, then you are better at making money than making love. Don't quit your day job.

Synova said...

She's got a point.

I read one comment about this that suggested that prostitutes are whores (duh) and that is the only way to be a whore... to be paid for it.

That's not the definition of whore I grew up with... though I suppose there is a difference of degree between slut and whore.

But REALLY the concept of marriage as prostitution (selling sex for security) is not at all NEW, and the suggestion that women who pursue situations where they can be *kept* are just as much prostitutes as the chick with the pimp on the corner is hardly controversial.

But I suppose that in these days of pretending hook-ups are what everyone does there are a whole lot of women (and man-sluts) telling themselves that *they* are different from what those "bad" words were for.

Donna B. said...

Related:
http://townhall.com/columnists/EvaLorraineMolina/2009/08/28/where_have_all_the_ladies_gone

Maxine Weiss said...

What really irritates is that there are kids who have truly difficult lives, born into abject poverty, nothing but an uphill climb......who don't sell themselves.

This chick grew up in relative affluence, yet if you listen to her music...it's that hip-hop, chip-on-the-shoulder, ghetto/grievance lingo.

Typical of today's young generation that believes "accomplishment" is how many tattoos and piercings you have; and if you sin..... Yoga is the new form of Community Service.

fivewheels said...

There was a time in my life when I was friendly with several ladies like Ms. Dupre. No, not for that reason, just from the random chance of being neighbors and having a career with similarly non-9-to-5 hours. Dupre's attitude was common among them, and frankly I didn't and don't think it's so wrong.

The truth is, women like this do encounter a lot of judgment from most people. We can argue about whether those judgments are correct or not, but the complaint is that the judgment indeed often seems to be a one-way street, and I really do think that's unfair.

And honestly, if I compared the ladies of the evening I have known to, say, the white-collar-type women I've worked with over the years, it is my judgment that the Dupres of the world compare favorably in terms of non-sexual morals -- honesty, trustworthiness, compassion, courage, independence and whatnot. IMHO.

The rest of what she wrote seems plausibly true too, though I certainly can't say for sure.

fivewheels said...

The problem is that a lot of people think it's easy and safe to judge certain people without blowback, no pun intended.

Many feminists are very pro-sex work, but I used to work with one who was very anti, the type who simply felt she was above such people and could safely look down on them. She ended up dating and marrying our supervisor and getting the best schedule and assignments despite the least seniority. Then they had a kid and she never came back to the workplace. True story, classic example.

Penny said...

Laura and Freeman, Ashley Dupre was raised in northern New Jersey, so she may be sharing from her actual observation when she talked of the housewives there being strung out on mood stabilizers.

Penny said...

As for her "judge me and I will judge you back" stance, wouldn't most women respond similarly? It's a protective measure, and very much a part of human nature.

J. R. said...

And what of her other client? Congressman Mike Arcuri is still Congressman Mike Arcuri, the man who won't admit that he got caught up in the same thing as Elliot Spitzer, and who apparently won't have to admit it either.

--

Your simplifications of what she said are a little too simplistic, Ann. She was more balanced and reasonable in her piece than you made her seem, although she was obviously angry too and you captured that.

But I have to say that, with this post of yours, it is extremely difficult to tell whether you are linking out of approval or out of disapproval. Q: Is it always one or the other-- do you ever link out of sheer neutrality?

Dad Bones said...

Aren't a lot of johns lonely married guys looking for another woman to talk to, as well as for sex? Those blabbing hubbies are probably the eyes that the hooker uses to "see" the Jersey housewives. And what better way to get a good look at them than from the guys who live with them?

jhankey said...

I taking up yoga today

Pogo said...

Some people see all human relationships as simple transactions, a kind of market where money or power or security is traded for sex or children or status.

The commodification of desire has a certain libertarian appeal, for libertarians, anyway.

But for others, the argument is juvenile, and merely exposes the selfish, hollow, and bitter interiors of people like Ashley Dupre and Eliot Spitzer.

Her concept is no more inventive or insightful than writing F*** You on a lavatory stall.

One musters some small pity for the barbarian life, up until it encroaches on and transforms one's own.

Laura(southernxyl) said...

Dad Bones said...

Aren't a lot of johns lonely married guys looking for another woman to talk to, as well as for sex? Those blabbing hubbies are probably the eyes that the hooker uses to "see" the Jersey housewives. And what better way to get a good look at them than from the guys who live with them?


That's probably it. I buy that more than Ashley growing up in the suburbs and seeing neighborhood women taking downers in front of her.

Of course, the hubbies are telling the prostitute the unvarnished, objective truth about their wives. Uh huh. No self-justification there. And the wives who are married to men who would go to a prostitute and would risk bringing home an STD have NO reason not to be charming and happy all the time.

Bissage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Is there such a thing as community sanctioned and approved "marriage" that makes a sexual relationship into an honest and safe place to raise children and be loyal for life? If so, then that possibility is what Judges everone who does not hold out for one. This may be why "Marriage" is under attack. Bitterness and sour grapes like this are all that compromisers have left. Than there is Mark Sandford's foolish love in all the wrong places problem too. Bottom line is: when you find a good man or a good woman. Marry them and hold on tight.

Pogo said...

"Marry them and hold on tight."

One use for love handles, perhaps.

Fred4Pres said...

Women marrying men only for their wealth...I am shocked, shocked that is going on.

Dad Bones said...

Good point, Laura. Unhappy husbands who run to hookers aren't overflowing with self-knowledge or any abundance of sympathetic feelings for their wives.

Must be enough of it going around, though, for this expensive yoga hooker to see a pattern.

Fred4Pres said...

There is still a big difference between an opportunistic marriage and prostitution. Sorry. But I can't disagree with Spitzer's happiness consultant that there is definitely hypocrisy in those who judge.

To be fair, it can go the other way too (Cougar sightings definitely up!).

And sometimes we are too quick to judge. Yes some relationships on quick study seem superficial. We all notice the husband on his second marriage maried to a younger woman. But we should not judge too quickly. For example, Fred and Jeri seem to be a real couple and definitely compatable with each other. Jeri was passed over as just a trophy wife, but it quickly became apparent she was a lot more than just that.

knox said...

You’d be shocked at some of the messes I’ve gotten myself into...

doubt it.

raf said...

@J.R.: "it is extremely difficult to tell whether you are linking out of approval or out of disapproval. Q: Is it always one or the other-- do you ever link out of sheer neutrality?"

I would say that Ann does this more often than not. She slips into professor mode and wants to start a discussion. I blame comments. Before she enabled comments, I think she revealed more of her own thinking and analysis. But hey, I'm still here so I must think it works both ways.

WV: phypo. A philosophical hypothesis?

Laura(southernxyl) said...

Dad Bones said...
Good point, Laura. Unhappy husbands who run to hookers aren't overflowing with self-knowledge or any abundance of sympathetic feelings for their wives.

Must be enough of it going around, though, for this expensive yoga hooker to see a pattern.


Or for her to say she sees a pattern. I'm not convinced she's all that in the brutally honest and self-aware department either.

dbp said...

Synova said...

"But REALLY the concept of marriage as prostitution (selling sex for security) is not at all NEW, and the suggestion that women who pursue situations where they can be *kept* are just as much prostitutes as the chick with the pimp on the corner is hardly controversial".

There are two problems with this: 1. One cannot ever know if any particular marriage started off in such a mercenary fashion. He may be old, ugly and rich and she young and beautiful, but they might just be in-love. I don't know any people like this btw. Everyone in our social circle are married to people of roughly equal looks and earning potential.
2. Even if a marriage was originally based on security and comfort in exchange for sex, that doesn't mean it will stay that way. People who spend time together usually become close via shared experiences and adversity. So it may start as a pathetic and sad arrangement but it can grow into a true marriage based upon love and trust. This is highly unlikely in the prostitute/john model--it can never evolve beyond sad and pathetic.

Laura(southernxyl) said...

dbp, I agree, and then there's the situation where one partner is in it for love and the other for sex or money. If she loves him and he puts up with her for sex, does that make her a prostitute?

Freeman Hunt said...

Laura and Freeman, Ashley Dupre was raised in northern New Jersey, so she may be sharing from her actual observation when she talked of the housewives there being strung out on mood stabilizers.

Say she had one or two friends with messed up mothers. Suddenly that becomes everyone.

People who are doing some very low thing usually want to believe that everyone is doing some very low thing. Media even likes to perpetuate the idea because it's sensational.

The catch is that it isn't true.

Freeman Hunt said...

Corollary: No matter how good a person you are, there is almost certainly someone out there much better than you.

Some people cannot stomach the idea that there are people better than themselves.

Really, it should be cause for celebration.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I believe that all women (and probably all men) trade parts of themselves for security at some points in their lives.

Exactly Florida

All relationships are a give and take.

Maybe some women do stay in a less than satisfying relationship trading sex for security. So what?

Many men do the same trading free housework, sex, home cooked dinners for security and home.

This woman reminds me of the blind wise men and the elephant in the old parable. She is only able to touch the ass end of the elephant so she think that represents the entire animal.

Marriage is complicated and people are complicated. You may start out in a marriage of convenience and turn it into a loving relationship. More often people start out in a wild passionate lust/love and it turns into hell on earth or just plain boredom.

vw: WADDLI what you do if you take the big thigh advice too much to heart.

traditionalguy said...

At the fundamental base a relationship is measured by the honesty allowed and practised between the two. The Whore label is one result of a relationship based on lies told and pretended to be believed. Of course imperfect people attempt marriages, and some never get to the honesty and self revelation between them needed to complete it. For instance Spitzer and Sandford both are struggling with being truthfull and with being married, not to mention John Edwards olympic gold medal lying skills. Maybe a rule is that used car salesmen and politicians cannot function as truth tellers, and many of their wives will have a lot of grief coming.

Florida said...

"Aren't a lot of johns lonely married guys looking for another woman to talk to, as well as for sex?"

My experience with this (knowing men who visit prostitutes) is that they are looking for kinky sex they can't get from their wives, most of whom have had multiple children.

The wives' bodies aren't what they used to be and by the time you're married 5 or 6 years and there are two or three kids, the wife could care less about doing new kinky things (most of them).

Whores will do whatever you want. And they'll do it right now. Without bitching about it.

Once you're done. They're gone.

Whores are disposable.

What amazes me is that Eliot Spitzer will do fine in the Democrat Party.

Treating women like whores to be used and disposed of is not frowned upon in the Democrat Party.

Whores put the "party" in Democrat Party.

fivewheels said...

I see some people in this thread who appear to think that Dupre has no right to make comments about other women -- because what does she know, the ignorant little whore -- but feel perfectly justified in making assumptions about her experiences, insights, or lack of them.

Which is exactly her point.

former law student said...

Whores put the "party" in Democrat Party.

Well, at least they don't use nouns as adjectives. Did you put out your "America" flag this morning? Which do you like better, "Italy" food or "China" food?

Laura(southernxyl) said...

"I see some people in this thread who appear to think that Dupre has no right to make comments about other women...."

Au contraire. As an American, Dupre has the right to make any comments she wants.

So do we.

Big Mike said...

Ashley's comment made me think about this famous little nugget. Even today the guy's response to the ostensible Craigslist post has me ROTFL.

Maxine Weiss said...

"She was more balanced and reasonable in her piece than you made her seem," --J.R.

___________________


Prostitute wasn't the slightest bit balanced and reasonable.

No contrition, no introspection or reflection, and no redemption.....whatsoever...

Unless, you consider Pilates as penance, and Yoga as paying her debt to society.

Prostitute wants to compare herself to New Jersey housewives, who, despite what their motives may be.... presumably, didn't engage in illegal acts to get what they have.

Prostitute wonders why she's less sympathetic than Spitzer-- who (despite his flaws)---went to school, got himself elected Governor and was much more popular than her to begin with.

And, of course, Spitzer isn't judging his fellow males, in a blog, saying how they are no better than he is because they all sleep with their secretaries.

No, Prostitute isn't really helping her case. And, "reasonable" isn't a very accurate way of describing her.

However, I'm sure she's very accomplished when it comes to flexible Yoga poses.

kentuckyliz said...

Ashley Dupre isn't calling me a whore, for these reasons:
1. I have only ever had sex with people I wanted to have sex with. Not referred clients from the pimp.
2. The only remuneration from sex I've ever got was love and a smile.
And that's all I ever wanted. No cash changed hands.

And here's the truth about prostitution:

Prostitutes aren't paid for sex.

They are paid to GO AWAY afterwards.

Think about it.

That's the difference Ashley. You are supposed to go away. The housewives aren't.