August 20, 2009

"Our justice system demands that judgment be imposed but compassion available. Our beliefs dictate that justice be served but mercy be shown."

Mercy to the man who exploded 259 human beings into the sky over Lockerbie, Scotland.

59 comments:

Rialby said...

This is the compassionate Scottish law that Arlen Specter wanted to introduce to America.

I hope he rots in hell. The bomber, not Arlen Specter.

Bissage said...

The problem is a definition of mercy too narrow in scope.

Hand him a pistol and a bullet.

wv = nesses. Plural for Loch Ness. Fortunately, there is little occasion to use it.

Elliott A said...

The people on the plane didn't get to die at home, and their families didn't have anything to bury. He doesn't deserve such a kindness.

William said...

This subhuman piece of shit committed an unpardonable crime. This is not an act of compassion towards him but a deliberate act of contempt towards all the lives that he irreparably damaged.

bagoh20 said...

It's hardly compassionate to have kept him in jail all this time. He should have gotten a parade and a piece of the plane as a memento.

Seriously, I don't understand this reasoning. You can't be compassionate and punish someone for killing 259 people. Pick one. What does it say about our respect for those people lives if we are concerned with the guy who purposefully killed them. It devalues the lives of the innocent. When you murder you voluntarily devalue your life so that we do not need to respect it. Our job is to honor innocent life by confirming the cost of taking it.

Michael Hasenstab said...

Here's hoping the plane is underfueled.

MrBuddwing said...

Without a shred of evidence or proof (like that's ever stopped any commenter on any message board), I refuse to believe this guy did it.

I believed then, I believe now, Pan Am 103 was not revenge for the U.S. air raid on Tripoli in April 1986, but was direct revenge for the downing of the Iranian jetliner by the USS Vincennes in July 1988, the same year as Pan Am.

It's too damn perfect. We blow an Iranian jetliner out of the air, killing everyone on board; five months later, a bomb blows a Pan Am jetliner out of the air, killing everyone on board and 11 people on the ground.

Like I said: No proof. But it makes way too much terrible sense.

Scott M said...

I'm all about compassion as long as there is at least a reasonable expectation that such largess would be reciprocated. I believe our enemies have demonstrated and stated repeatedly that they do not feel this way about us.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

The Drill SGT said...

Rialby beat me, but my thought as I opened the comment page to say"

"Let the bastard rot.."

is blunter

MadisonMan said...

The prosecution maintained al Megrahi, who worked at Malta's Luqa Airport, was an agent for the Libyan intelligence services and had been seen buying clothes that were in the suitcase that contained the bomb.

I would have thought that the clothes surrounding the bomb would have been obliterated. What a fascinating piece of forensics that must have been, to link the clothing fiber to the suitcase, to the person buying them!

Jennifer said...

I don't like the idea that we should hold ourselves to the standards of those we rightfully condemn. There is an argument to be made for doing the thing we believe to be right with no expectation or even hope for reciprocity. I just don't know if this is the right circumstance in which to make that argument.

The Drill SGT said...

I would have thought that the clothes surrounding the bomb would have been obliterated. What a fascinating piece of forensics that must have been, to link the clothing fiber to the suitcase, to the person buying them!

at the rates that conventional explosives accelerate, they will drive fibers into their permeable neighbors like luggage.

Think power burns on a wound

G Joubert said...

In Scotland a life sentence means until you get sick. Interesting.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I say let him get his cancer treatment from the British Public Health Care option that Obama wants to foist upon us.

That'll finish him off in no time.

Justice served.

The Drill SGT said...

powder, not power, though they have lots of power

Alex said...

Give me a drill bit and I'll get to work on this asshole.

LarsPorsena said...

@Alex:"Give me a drill bit and I'll get to work on this asshole."

Start on the knee caps. Save the asshole for last.

wv rexess -- monarchial overindulgence.

elHombre said...

To err is human, to forgive divine. -- Pope

It is rare to find a judge who does not consider enrobement as a mandate to confirm his or her divinity.

Evidently, the same mandate has been extended to politically appointed Justice Secretaries in Scotland.

-----------------------------------
WV "soffies" - Candyasses who pardon mass murderers

American Liberal Elite said...

The guy's toast - let Libya and not UK taxpayers bear the expense of his final illness

Larry J said...

Let's see, if he spent an even 8 years in prison, that works out to a little over 11 days for each life he ended. That hardly seems like adequate punishment to me.

PatCA said...

It's sad to watch a civilization die.

Even worse is the thought, though, that this is political--will Libya stop the flood of immigrants for a day to pay for the deal, or what?

bagoh20 said...

The value you place on something is reflected in what price you demand for it.

Dogwood said...

I would have thought that the clothes surrounding the bomb would have been obliterated. What a fascinating piece of forensics that must have been, to link the clothing fiber to the suitcase, to the person buying them!

The story of how the Pan Am bombers were identified is told in the book Spycraft.

Short version: a small piece of a circuit board was found in a torn piece of a shirt. The CIA traced the circuit board to a specific company whose largest customer was Libya. The shirt was tracked to an airport gift store where a clerk remembered the customer.

The entire book is well worth a read, but the Pan Am story is fascinating all by itself.

Chip Ahoy said...

This comPAshun ov which ye spek, it conFUNDS mə grrrᾱtly. Please elabrrrᾱt.

Ralph L said...

What's wrong with Scottish prisoners? He should have been getting daily prostate exams.

Strayhorn said...

I thought he got compassion and mercy when he was spared the dance at the end of a rope.

Now I'm all confused.

Geoff Matthews said...

Best argument in favor of the death penalty that I've seen in a long time.

Average life sentence in the UK is about 11 years.

Sloanasaurus said...

I flew home from London (on Continental) on the same day as PAN AM 103. I went to school there with several of the people who were on the plane.

Its sad that liberalism has to triumph over common sense... the guy should have been executed.

Freeman Hunt said...

Easy, talk show esque sympathy, not mercy.

Outcomes like this make a strong case for the death penalty. If you can't trust governments to keep convicted people locked up for life, then the argument for life imprisonment over execution is a non-starter.

traditionalguy said...

Once again the government does not protect its own innocent citizens but does protect the false idea that equivalent penalties upon the guilty men who commit mass murder are cruel and unusual.

Cedarford said...

"Our justice system demands that judgment be imposed but compassion available. Our beliefs dictate that justice be served but mercy be shown."

The past justice system was one in which justice was swift and generally certain enough...and mercy was only the prerequisite of the RULER. Not any appointed lawyer dressed in robes.

But despite the wishes of the citizenry, the template of justice was slowly subverted in America and much of Europe into a Jewish Talmudic model. Where nothing is swift or certain. Where all can be debated endlessly in "due process". Where the criminal is seen as the victim of the State, and where what the people wish for is called the demands of the mob, and only annointed Elites may have a place in creating laws and enforcing them.

The New Sanhedrin, where lawyers and insider cabals replace not just the will of the people in justice, but in who gets the money, fruits of corruption, and appointments.

Think the average Scot likes this decision? Absolutely not. But the opinion of the average Scot no longer matters much anymore. And by acquiescing to it, the average Scot deserves the New European Order shit sandwich he is being fed.

Same process is happening in America. We are just a decade or so behind Europe and Israel.

And the Ruling Elites, from NYC media sorts to the likes of Pelosi, Waxman, Schumer absolutely hate signs part of the American masses may not be meek Scots sheep. Or vegan English poofters. Or French-Jewish Eurocrats making law in Brussels.

Witness the hate and fury they visit on tea parties, Palin, town hall meetings.

And the reaction to seeing Americans displaying firearms at political gatherings triggers something like the panic the powdered and coiffed courtiers and financiers to European courts (the K Street, AIPAC, wall street donor's dinner parties) had of peasants with pitchforks gathering.

Angry civil. polite Americans..disregard.
The Ruling Elites count on civility and their automatic genuflection to activist judges and leaders corrupted by Ruling Elite money. Angry Americans massing at tea parties is scary. And angry Americans with guns is a real panic button pressing moment. A direct threat to the Ruling Elites...they may properly think.

In the end, it is the right of the people to violently rebel. Toss all judges out of office. Burn the Constitution and make a better one...if they feel they have been sold out to globalism, their savings destroyed by no fault of their own, that their schools and courts no longer work, their nations Borders are not secured.

David said...

It will be very interesting to see how he is received in Libya and how his death will be marked in the Muslim world. I don't think the families of the victims will be comforted by either reaction

Scott M said...

Unlike our brethren across the water in Ireland, we Scots are slow to anger. But once the kilt is up, so to speak, well, heads literally tend to roll.

Sure, I'm six generations or more removed from the soil of my family's highlands, but my kilt is up nonetheless.

former law student said...

ALE is right -- What Scotland is really doing is letting someone else pay for his end-of-life care. Dying of cancer is no walk in the park wherever it takes place.

BJM said...

Sloanasaurus, PA 103 was my bi-monthly business commute flight from Europe to Detroit. I flew home for Christmas a week earlier on 103; 4D was my usual seat (forth window below the cockpit). Industry colleagues died on 103 and it could have been me. I'm fresh out of compassion.

DBQ: I say let him get his cancer treatment from the British Public Health Care option that Obama wants to foist upon us.

Obviously the media doesn't see the irony in this story. The 5 yr survival rate for prostate cancer is 77% in the UK.

just visiting said...

"It is not unthinkable that a society might attain such a consciousness of power that it could allow itself the noblest luxury possible to it - letting those who harm it go unpunished. "What are my parasites to me?" it might say. "May they live and prosper: I am strong enough for that!"

Nietzsche, The Genealogy of Morals, Second Essay, section 10.

John said...

How much of this is mercy and how much BP (As in British Petroleum)

BP just signed a multi-billion dollar exploration/exploitation agreement with Libya.

I suppose it could be just coincidence. I suppose pigs can fly, too.

http://www.electric.co.uk/news/bp-expanding-oil-interest-in-libya-12341083.html

John Henry
www.changeover.com

VW is apsol. Yeah, that sounds like about the right word to describe the judge. He is a real apsol.

Methadras said...

What a disgusting excuse the Scots have made to let this man go. Does being a leftist country know no bounds that you are willing to shit on the victims that this piece of ofal has killed for his political agenda? I'll kill him and do the world a favor.

Ralph L said...

Think the average Scot likes this decision? Absolutely not.
Yet they vote Labour, heavily. The fire seems to have left the race, as it did the Vikings.

just visiting said...

Oddly enough, when (I suppose) "the fire" was still in "the race" - medieval Scottish law was actually rife with laws (rampant royal pardons, periodic blanket amnesties, and sanctuary in churches, for example) that allowed large numbers of avowed murderers to receive mercy and avoid punishment.

Scott M said...

@just visiting

While you are technically correct, in the context of the current discussion you seem to be insinuating that those things cited were indicative of Scottish medieval law. It would be more correct to say that those things cited were indicative of western medieval law.

If we were to take this any further, I suppose to would ask what an "avowed" murderer is in the context of medieval Europe, but that's another segue.

Ralph L said...

That's because they had so many native killers it was a national sport. I doubt many furriners got much mercy.

WV mationt - what happens to a country after women get the vote.

John Lynch said...

Bullshit, and we all know it. Mass murderer getting off on a technicality. He'll die at home a hero.

just visiting said...

@Scott M - You are absolutely correct. The various mechanisms for mercy I described appear to be characteristic of the western legal tradition through at least the 16th century. I did not mean to imply anything peculiar about Scotland. Such practices were, as I understand them, part of the English common and Roman-canon law as well.

"Avowed" in this context (if we can trust Frederick Maitland) means that the recipients of mercy had first confessed (under oath, i.e. a vow) their guilt. Indeed, the logic of pardon and sanctuary required the confession of guilt. Otherwise, no mercy would be involved.

save_the_rustbelt said...

One of the victims was from the Toledo area, we didn't know him well but knew his parents and brother very well. How they suffered.

What a tragic loss. Had he stayed in the family business, he would likely be alive today. Instead he wanted to be a great architect, and he wanted to study in Europe.

Hell should prepare a place for the newly freed bomber.

elHombre said...

ALE is right -- What Scotland is really doing is letting someone else pay for his end-of-life care. Dying of cancer is no walk in the park wherever it takes place.

Of course he is. And the only justice that is really important is "social justice" as defined as a core value by the body of American liberal elites. And anyway since when does a life sentence contemplate that the offender die in prison?

Ah, the infallible logic and ethics of the left on display for all.

WV lerakete - Obamacare, in French

former law student said...

Ah, the infallible logic and ethics of the left on display for all.

Consider that humanely euthanizing him via the death penalty would have eliminated a lot of suffering he now must undergo.

rhhardin said...

The thing could not go right right from the beginning.

It was a terrorist act, aiming not to kill people so much as to make the largest possible news.

The proper response was not some criminal action but a predator missle.

elHombre said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
elHombre said...

Consider that humanely euthanizing him via the death penalty would have eliminated a lot of suffering he now must undergo.

Considering your absolute predictability, I assume this is tongue-in-cheek and that you oppose the death penalty. Is the implication then that I equate justice with suffering?

If so, I can only repeat: Ah, the infallible logic and ethics of the left on display for all.

If not, so what?

Cedarford said...

"omemiserum wrote:
Absolutely the right decision. No doubt about it. We have Christian values and compassion is one of them. I am very proud that this decision was taken."

================
"Christian values", falsely applied, will corrode societies moral codes and contracts in order to "make compassionate exceptions".

We expect the rules that order our society to be enforced fairly and impartially. That contracts and covenents mean what they say. That we apply certainty to the enforcment and we achieve swift resolution of justice.

We cannot exist for long if we make all law and contracts subject to years, decades long uncertainty in making rulings, carrying out law. We cannot exist if we make exceptions for some that we do not apply equally to all.

Christian tradition, as well as Asian and Muslim - does allow The Ruler to make pardons.........but does not diffuse that power to any judge or official that "feels charitable".

If you say that anyone with a life sentence should get out before they die, you effectively end "life imprisonment" as a punishment.

If you let a butcher of 270 people go, then how can you object to any other prisoner with a terminal illness not getting a pass to freedom??

If this is precedent, then the UK just ended a sentence of life in prison being true.
Kiddie rapist-killers.
Serial killers.
Heroin kingpins in London.
Any other terrorist.
Someone who defrauds 2 million Brits of half their pension account.

----------
This is not Christian practice. It is Talmudic garbage of endless debate and due process to make lawyers help other lawyers be gainfully employed and alone decide day-to-day if a sentence a judge and jury made is appropriate.

It is profound moral weakness disguised as "caring".
And most Muslims will see it that way. If the butcher of 270 infidels is let go, a good deal of Muslims will conclude it is because the other infidels fear the wrath of Allah, that they recognize how unfit infidels are to ever judge a superior Muslim outside Sharia Law, or conclude the Libyan was unfairly sentenced to start with.

Methadras said...

former law student said...

Consider that humanely euthanizing him via the death penalty would have eliminated a lot of suffering he now must undergo.


Then let him suffering while incarcerated. Is that so hard to understand?

cubanbob said...

If we had a real American President he would have ordered the aircraft taking that scum back to Libya blown out of the sky over international airspace. What the Scots have done is commit a hostile act against the US. Or at least levy sanctions on Scottish exports to the US and on Scottish companies in the US.

Cedaford you really are a tiresome one trick bigot pony. Be gone.

Steven said...

If Bush and Blair were still in office, Libya would have at least thought twice about having him greeted at the airport with a cheering crowd and the son of the dictator.

Lyle said...

This is far left legal criminal justice thinking winning its way into legal doctrine. It's getting to become the same here in the U.S. There are attorneys who believe people shouldn't even go to prison, or that being the victim of a crime is really not that big a deal.

Revenant said...

Consider that humanely euthanizing him via the death penalty would have eliminated a lot of suffering he now must undergo.

You know how you can tell when a person's suffering is worse than death? He kills himself to end the suffering. Looks like al Megrahi's still alive, so we can conclude he'd rather be alive than dead.

Which means that not killing him was a mercy.

Jenifer said...

It's too damn perfect. We blow an Iranian jetliner out of the air, killing everyone on board;


___________________
Jenifer
Best Affordable Security Systems Suitable for Renters and Apartments, Business and RV

NKVD said...

Jenifer, I like the way you think.

Blog Girl said...

I completely agree with what poster Elliott A said...

"The people on the plane didn't get to die at home, and their families didn't have anything to bury. He doesn't deserve such a kindness."

Terrorists and people who commit other acts of such extreme violence should not be candidates for any sort of mercy release. Even if they are sorry (which this man is NOT), they have to pay for their crimes. What this terrorist did tore apart more lives than we’ll ever know and now 21 years later, these wounds are being re-opened because of Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill’s thoughtless ruling.

I am also offended by the following...

"Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond told BBC Radio that it was wrong to assume that all those affected by the bombing were opposed to al-Megrahi's release.

"I understand the huge and strongly held views of the American families, but that's not all the families who were affected by Lockerbie," Salmond said. "As you're well aware, a number of the families, particularly in the U.K., take a different view and think that we made the right decision."

We Americans are not out for revenge... anyone, no matter where they live, would want JUSTICE for the murderer of their loved ones. MacAskill has failed all the families of those who died on December 21, 1988 and I hope it eats away at him for a long, long time.