July 26, 2009

"'Call me Jimmy,' Crowley said. Obama said to call him Barack. They spoke for five minutes..."

Wait a minute! The President shouldn't be telling people to call him by his first name, should he?

Should the President tell people to call him by his first name?
No. It's not presidential.
Yes. It's a breath of fresh air.
pollcode.com free polls


ADDED: A second poll:

Should Sgt. Crowley accept the invitation to have a beer with the President and the Professor?
Yes, warmly, with an attitude of conciliation.
Yes, coolly, standing his ground.
No, because he will be manipulated and used.
No, to express his disapproval.
  
pollcode.com free polls

125 comments:

AllenS said...

"Just don't mention my middle name."

New York said...

Democrats have a difficult time with the notion of being "presidential" .... also with the notion that the occupier of a certain station needs to pay respect to that station.

Hollywood seemed to understand it. Barack should ask himself "What would Jed Bartlett do?"

PatCA said...

I didn't vote. I think Obama was just trying to flatter him into submission. I hope Crowley is "busy" for the next 6 months or so.

Meade said...

Reminds me of when candidate Obama tossed the bouquet of flowers on the Sept. 11 Ground Zero memorial.

Unqualified for the job, he still does not know what he is doing.

Rogue President said...

If it's going to be Skippy and Jimmy, then Barry seems the most appropiate.

Bissage said...

PART I.

A father’s loving touch, a yellow butterfly, a pearlescent shimmer.

A new day dawns.

The sun rises.

PART II.

Daddy please don't.

It wasn't his fault.

He means so much to me.

Daddy please don't.

We’re gonna get married.

Just you wait and see.

PART III.

Deep.

Maguro said...

Everything will be fine after Barack, Jimmy and Professor Gates sit down for a few beers as true equals.

reader_iam said...

Hell, if POTUS is going to be offering interventions over beer in the WH, why not do it a first-name basis? Bleccchhh.

Quayle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paul said...

"Just don't mention my middle name."

Heh.

Quayle said...

I sense that Team Obama has found a new role for Hillary - take center stage when the President has stumbled and accidentally dribbled on himself.

I predict that next week will be another phase of news management by Team Obama.

We can expect that on the MSM that Hillary and international affairs will be pushed forward at every opportunity, and with tough talk to boot, while Obama's domestic guys apply ice to their wounds and regroup.

reader_iam said...

P.S. I didn't vote in the poll because I don't much care about the name thing, per se. I do find the president's seeming lack of understanding of the scope and context of his own office to be more than a little distressing.

Laura(southernxyl) said...

The Kerouac post appears to have affected Bissage deeply.

Kirby Olson said...

He has a clear framework of values which is the black grievance network from Wright to Gates, and this comes out in unlikely ways and times. He was rather triumphalist when it appeared that a police officer had acted badly toward his homie -- I think he wanted it to be true so badly that it became true for him before he checked the data. He's very much formed and framed by his colleagues and their ways of looking at things.

It's a very immature and hostile framework and it leads to dumb blow-ups like Wright's tantrums behind the pulpit and Gates' tantrum with the officer.

I hope Obama can rise above it. It seems he realizes that he has to try. That's a good thing. He should say something about Iran, and he should think about Aung Kyi's trial in Burma, and other, larger issues, and get a bit more perspective.

But this will require leaving his petty grievance framework, and attaining a whole new stature. I doubt if he can do it. He should be friends with men like Cosby instead of men like Gates. Cosby is actually a mature man.

dbp said...

I suspect that Crowley voted for and likes President Obama. In one interview I listened to on the radio,he said, "I support the President 110%".

Crowley is in a difficult position: He likes the President but he and his fellow officers just got seriously dissed. He has a tough lie to play.

bearbee said...

CNN video with Cambridge police.

bearbee said...

But this will require leaving his petty grievance framework......

From the beginning his framework has been that America is bad and it is a message that he has taken to other countries.

reader_iam said...

The woman in the CNN video linked by Bearbee is extremely impressive.

Alex said...

Whine, whine, bitch, bitch, whine, whine, bitch, whine. Blah blah blah I have no brain.....

/Jeremy

Jason (the commenter) said...

Our President should have made that offer to Rush.

The Real Barack said...

Look I invited Sean Hannity for a beer and he never responded. Crowley at least has the nerve and class to accept my invite.

What's next? Will Alcoholics Anonymous criticize me for using beer to reach common ground?

Paul Zrimsek said...

Suggested reply for Crowley: "If Gates wants us to get together and shake hands while agreeing to disagree, I'm OK with that. If he wants us to get together to debate what happened, I'm even OK with that. But is he sees this meeting as him lecturing and me listening, I don't see any point to it."

janemariemd said...

I don't think Crowley really has a choice--it looks like a conciliatory gesture by the POTUS. I see the greatest risk for Obama here--if his buddy Skip Gates comes out afterward and crows and struts, Obama will look bad.

Alex said...

Despite what Zero says I think Crowley should always say "Mr. President" to respect the Presidency. It matters not that Barack the Magic Zero doesn't, WE have to rise above him.

reader_iam said...

Randy's hero is Barack Obama. I've seen no evidence of Cedarford bashing the Joos. Blah Blah Blah Make assumptions about commenters based on whether they agree with him blah blah blah

/Alex

(Alex and Jeremy: Twin sons of diffferent mothers.)

William said...

Everyone should look at the video bearbee just posted. His fellow officers make a fine case for Crowley. They were about the only black people I saw on TV that were willing to give him any slack....In private conversations with VIP's it's ok to use their first names. In a more public forum, grant them their title....I think OBama reached out to Crowley in a sincerely conciliatory way. I think Crowley should play out the hand. He has good presence before the cameras. As the teaching moment unfolds, he, not Gates might be the one to gather sympathy. Pompous and self important are not code words for uppity. Pompous flow the dons in all the colors of the spectrum.....Perhaps Crowley can host a PBS special on how the ermine collars of academics get impacted in their egos and the trauma such egos inflict on the humble town folk who have to deal with them.

reader_iam said...

Despite what Zero says I think Crowley should always say "Mr. President" to respect the Presidency. It matters not that Barack the Magic Zero doesn't, WE have to rise above him.

ROFLMAO. Shouldn't that be "MR." Magic Zero, Alex? You know, on account of the rising above thing.

garage mahal said...

Nag nag nag.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
L. E. Lee said...

I see the Althouse Hillbillies do not want to let it go but instead continue their race hustling. A real classy group you have assembled here Ann!

knox said...

Ugh, the whole situation has been bad enough, but this phony "let's get together for a beer!!" thing just brings it to a new level of ick. Can't we all just not get along?

Alex said...

LE Lee - if Barck the magic Zero wanted to let go of race hustling, why did he give this story more life by inviting the cop for a beer? Why one standard for althouse hillbillies and another for your hero?

Alex said...

I aplogize to Randy if I said Barack was his hero. Another misunderstanding on my part.

rhhardin said...

Maybe bring back American Prayer, which is actually musically interesting.

The tonic chord appears only in the refrain. Its absence is what keeps the song off the ground; and the song collapses when they start repeating the refrain.

Alex said...

Scott Rasmussen "most accurate poller of 2008":

http://www.fordham.edu/images/academics/graduate_schools/gsas/elections_and_campaign_/poll%20accuracy%20in%20the%202008%20presidential%20election.pdf

Latest Rasmussen:

49 approve 50 disapprove

Barack the magic Zero is falling faster then an erection in the sight of Hillary Clinton

L. E. Lee said...

Alex wrote
" if (President Obama) wanted to let go of race hustling, why did he give this story more life by inviting the cop for a beer?"

God Alex you are a dolt. President Obama did so in the spirit of reconciliation.

Alex said...

BTW according to the Fordham study, the usual Gallup, CBS, ABC polls cited by liberals as "gold standards" were near the bottom in accuracy!

Alex said...

LE Lee - as if Barack the magic Zero just isn't interested in a photo op and defusing a political bomb that has seen his approval rating erode by 5-6 points in the last week. Puh-leese!!!

AllenS said...

I second the motion by reader iam, check out bearbee's link to the video. Especially the perpetual haters of all things good, who comment on this blog, that always manage to be on the wrong side of the issues.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

You guys are hilarious, or, Althouse is very good at making you look hilarious.

The results of the first poll show that you hold the office of the presidency in high regard and that it should be respected (don't call the president by his first name!).

The results of the second poll show that you think Crowley should blow off the president, in effect not showing the office of the presidency any respect.

You people are amazing.

(And, I dare one of you to try and deny that if a similar poll was done about Bush telling someone to call him George, you would all say it was charming and folksy and proof of his greatness.)

Alex said...

Zach - Althouse has already bitch-slapped you yesterday, coming back for more?

jag said...

"Jimmy, call me Barack"

"Okay Mr. President"

"Barack"

"Yes Sir"

"No! Barack. Not 'sir' or Mr. President' Call me Barack'

"I will Mr. President, I promise"

"Damnit! Skip is right, you can't relate to Black men as your equal!"

L. E. Lee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
L. E. Lee said...

Also, it is clear that Sgt. Crowley greatly appreciated his conversation with President Obama. I am glad he is not going to allow himself to be used as a tool by Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh who are the biggest race hustlers working today.

Alex said...

LE Lee - it's your hero Barack the magic Nullity who is the biggest race huckster going today. Although Jesse "Hi" Jackson could give him a run for his money. Al Sharpton is banging on that door - "but what about meeeeeeeeeeeeee"

L. E. Lee said...

Yes, Alex, President Obama won the presidency with the largest margin of victory in twenty years by highlighting racial divisions. That makes total sense.

Like I said Alex, you are a dolt.

Alex said...

LE Lee - it's because white liberals were guilt-tripped into voting for him. All they needed was somebody who wasn't as scary as Jesse Jackson. Barack manages to sound "white enough" to get the job done.

L. E. Lee said...

Alex, the head Althouse Hillbilly, forever race hustling...

Maguro said...

Dragging this whole thing out by actually inviting Crowley and Gates to the White House would be a big political mistake for Obama. The issue is a loser for him, as the polls clearly show. He should just ignore it for a while and let Jimmy and Skip fade from the headlines.

Obama would no doubt love to meet Crowley and publicly lecture him on his racial insensitivity (teachable moment!), but Axelrod will probably be able to talk him out of it.

If not, prepare to see those approval ratings drop some more.

Donna B. said...

The most important issue has not been discussed, or I've missed it:

What kind of beer????

Joe said...

The office of president should be respected, the man in it only if earned.

Meade said...

knox said...
" Can't we all just not get along?"

Not get along. LOL. Loudly.

Alex said...

I agree it's a loser of an issue for Barack to keep this in the public mind. The public will not be thinking "oh look they're having beer". Rather it will be "oh look it's that cop that got falsely accused of being a racist by a race huckster". The Alinskyites are trying to control the narrative, but they will fail.

Jim said...

Zach -

"The results of the second poll show that you think Crowley should blow off the president, in effect not showing the office of the presidency any respect."

That's some incredible spin that you're attempting there.

There's a difference between respecting the office and being used as a tool to rehabilitate the public images of two people who thought nothing of attempting to destroy your professional career in the name of race-hustling.

Perhaps when Barack Obama decides to start acting like President Obama and get all the facts before pre-emptively judging a situation then you will have something to complain about.

For now, it appears that your real beef is with the unpresidential actions of the man currently occupying the office. You might want to write him a letter about that.

Matt said...

Excuse me but who the fuck cares about etiquette? Does it REALLY matter if you call the President by his first name? Half of you here don't even think Obama was born in the US and the other half think he is secretly a Muslim so you already have complete disregard for the President anyway - so why do you actually care about a formality that is so antiquated as to be dead?
What's more Obama actually is attempting to do the right thing and all you can do is piss all over his attempt. Is this fair is this balanced?

Randy said...

LOL! It is a bit rich to see the poll results and read people here criticizing the President for failing to uphold the dignity of the office when many of them regularly revert to prepubescent behavior when referring to the sitting President themselves. (Barry, Magic Negro, the One, Hussein, BO, for example. The list could continue ad infinitum.)

A number of you go so far as to say you would refuse to shake his hand at a public event, or have lamented that others did. In public or private, that's just plain rude and disrespectful.

Who a President of the United States of America invites to use his first name is no business of mine.

Jim said...

William -

"I think OBama reached out to Crowley in a sincerely conciliatory way."

Being threatened with a release of the tapes showing just what an ass Gates really was will tend to have an immediate impact. Just look how fast Gates himself went from threatening to sue everyone in sight to wanting to "Move On"(.org) (TM) and claiming that "this isn't about me." (Where have I heard that before?)

Crowley should be thankful that he had the foresight to open his mike that day. The alternative was to have been destroyed by unthinking and uncaring race hustlers.

Amazing how fast things changed once they got caught with their pants down, huh?

Jim said...

Matt -

"What's more Obama actually is attempting to do the right thing and all you can do is piss all over his attempt."

He's attempting to cover his ass. There's a huge difference. If he had come out the next day and immediately recognized that he shouldn't have said what he did, then I could buy that he was sincere.

But he came out Thursday and doubled down on stupid by blaming the media for reporting what he said. It wasn't until Friday when the Cambridge PD threatened to release the tapes that he suddenly had the epiphany that he had screwed the pooch.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of "sincerity."

Alex said...

Randy - are you impugning Althouse hillbillies as being racists or something?

Synova said...

As always I didn't care for the choices.

I answered "yes" to the first but not because it's a breath of fresh air. It's more like "why not" and "who cares." We're Americans. We don't bow to Royalty and we don't scrape to Presidents. Period.

On the second one I wanted a "it depends" in between the yes and no. I ended up with "yes, coolly" but it really wasn't above "no, he'll be used" which most other people chose.

Obama apparently made Crowley feel like he was apologized to and appreciated when he called him. This is something Obama seems very good at after publicly insulting someone.

We should keep a list.

Jim said...

Randy -

"It is a bit rich to see the poll results and read people here criticizing the President for failing to uphold the dignity of the office when many of them regularly revert to prepubescent behavior when referring to the sitting President themselves."

As opposed to Chimpy BusHitler...that's just the height of civilized discourse - even if put aside Godwin's Law.

Really. The rank hypocrisy didn't even cause a slight twinge when you hit the "Publish" button?

Alex said...

I take back what I said about Randy. I think he is a dickhead.

Synova said...

"A number of you go so far as to say you would refuse to shake his hand at a public event, or have lamented that others did. In public or private, that's just plain rude and disrespectful."

Obama recently and publicly congratulated Bono on avoiding a man-hug from Bush some years ago.

Rude and disrespectful, but Obama approves.

Jim said...

Synova -

"Obama recently and publicly congratulated Bono on avoiding a man-hug from Bush some years ago."

At a prayer breakfast no less....

Synova said...

"At a prayer breakfast no less...."

Dear God.

That, I hadn't known.

The Real Barack said...

Labor unions supported me in the 2008 elecion. My stimulus plan has not yet created jobs for them.

Govt worker unions supported me in the 2008 election. When I called the Cambridge cops stupid, many govt workers got pissed at me.

I can't afford to lose their support. They are my peeps!

So I will have Sgt Crowley over because Axelrod said I have to eat Crow if you know what I mean.

Jim said...

Synova -

Here's the link

"When I sat down, I was sitting besides Sen. Obama, soon to be President," Bono recalled, "and he just said, 'Nice work with the hug dodge.'"

Both the dodge and the smug comment were delivered at the 2006 National Prayer Breakfast.

Randy said...

Jim -

I never called Bush any of those things. I voted for the man. Twice. It is laughable just how often partisans of the left and right justify their actions by claiming "They did it first!" or "They do it too!" as if this gives them not permission but an absolute right to act the same way.

Somewhere along the line, despite the fact that so many of them appear to have reverted to childhood, they can't recall a mother's admonition, "Two wrongs don't make a right," nor the advice that just because everyone else is jumping off that cliff doesn't mean it is a good idea. ;-)

Matt said...

Jim
I hope you are not just now realizing that politicians make calculated actions based on media and public reaction?
The key is how the ACTIONS of politicians affect the REAL world.

First off, according to the statement Obama made Thursday, he didn't double down. He actually backed off a bit - although in my opinion he was right the first time. The officer acted stupidly. So did Gates for that matter.
Anyway, Obama making a 'bad' statement [I'll agree is was 'Unpresidential'] but then at least reaching out in conciliatory tones will have little impact. [But most of it positive]. However, the media loves this and so do those who hate Obama. But - trust me - very few who voted for Obama care about this at all. In fact, most of us are looking at each other and saying; 'Aren't there bigger issues right now?"

I should not that Bush getting the WMD info wrong and marching us to war in which over 4000 US soldiers were killed is a whole heck of a lot more serious and an issue that affected the REAL world. And he paid for it as he should have.

But, anyway, can we get back to serious issues? Please? Pretty Please? There are a lot of them out there.

Jim said...

Matt -

So we're in agreement then that Obama's non-apology on Friday wasn't sincere, but that it was purely the product of a political calculation.

Which was exactly what I said.

As far as there being "bigger things to worry about," I agree. I just wish Obama did. I would much rather have been discussing what a total meltdown ObamaCare is in over the last couple of days, but Obama made this frontpage news with his own behavior. Perhaps you should write him a letter and chastise him from distracting people from the important issues of the day.

Alex said...

Matt - the officer did not act stupidly. Take that back.

Randy said...

Alex: I'd accept your apology but I see you've withdrawn it. As to your question: I'd answer "No," but your depiction of people as "hillbillies" is ridiculous.

Jim said...

Matt -

"But - trust me - very few who voted for Obama care about this at all."

52% of Americans voted for Obama. His approval rating prior to the press conference was right around that number.

His current approval rating stands at 48%. So at least 8% of Obama voters seem to care very much.

Alex said...

Randy - I didn't invent the term "Althouse hillbillies", L.E. Lee did. He thinks he's being funny.

Alex said...

Jim - if Matt wants to delude himself into thinking that all Obama voters are left-wing maniacs like himself, let's not disabuse him of that notion. The longer the HuffPo types think they're winning, the longer it will take to change gears and come up with new tactics to counter our momentum. I really like having Eric Cantor on our side. He's much better then that Boehner idiot.

Alex said...

Also Sarah Palin could become a big positive for the GOP if she develops correctly in the next 6-12 months. She really needs to:

* bone up on all the big policy areas
* get coached on dealing with hostile MSM-types
* lose a bit of the populist rhetoric

All we need to do is file down the rough edges, and we'll have somebody formidable in 2012 or beyond.

Jim said...

Alex -

"I really like having Eric Cantor on our side."

I've liked what I've seen of Cantor as well. I know he was on the short list for McCain's VP last year. I haven't done a whole lot of checking into his positions and the like, but he seems a good advocate for Republican positions from what I've seen thus far.

Matt said...

Synova and Jim

Before Obama was President he congratulates Bono by saying 'Nice work with the hug dodge.'

In 2004 Dick Cheney tells Patrick Leahy on the Senate floor to 'Go fuck yourself'.

Which is worse? Do I have to ask?

The fact that the Obama and Bono conversation happened to be a prayer breakfast means nothing. If you hate that he said this there would you feel better about it if it were at Denny's? Please note this was a private conversation. He didn't get up and say it out loud to everyone. Do you think Presidents or Presidents to be don't say private things that might be considered uncool? Check the Nixon tapes just for fun.

Alex
What are we in grade school? How about, his actions were not as smart as they could have been. Is that better? I'm not saying I disrespect the officer in general or I don't think he isn't a good guy. I know a few police officers and have the utmost respect for them. They put their lives on the line in ways we can never understand. But it doesn't mean they are ALWAYS right or always do the right thing. Sorry, but I have read the police report twice and I know the law pretty well. This kind of 'disorderly conduct' [in his own home] is not worthy of an arrest. Gates was an ass, yes! Gates played the race card, yes! But could the officer have handled it better? Absolutely.

Alex said...

Matt - that's reasonable enough. I can't say that all cops are wonderful and aren't bullies. But the predominant theme right now in the MSM is "racist cop profiles black prof" and I will not pile on with those evil motherfuckers.

Synova said...

"I should not that Bush getting the WMD info wrong and marching us to war in which over 4000 US soldiers were killed is a whole heck of a lot more serious and an issue that affected the REAL world. And he paid for it as he should have."

Okay Matt.

Serious "real world"... lets go shall we?

The Stimulous is and was a disaster and our President has nationalized industry on account it's an "emergency". Getting this wrong is not a small thing with minor consequences. How are we going to get out of it? Can we ever? The emergency powers of *this* president to bring the private sector under public control utterly dwarfs the attempts of a war-time President to listen to a few enemy phone calls or monitor terrorist financing.

Cap and Trade and belief in magical economics where there is no and can be no bad results from religious environmentalism is pretty dead, or so I'm told, so we can skip that one.

Pushing through health care reform on the theory (again, magical) that doing *something* and doing it *now* is always more important than doing the right thing and being certain that there will not be negative consequences is far more serious than the drama of Gates and Jimmy Crowley. It is far more dangerous, too. The congressional budget office is disputing Obama's economic promises related to Health Care but opposing the changes is portrayed as hating people and wanting them to suffer just to oppose Obama. Making it personal and refusing to take opposition concerns seriously might not matter so much since it's likely that the health care bill will not get passed by Congress this week. Even then, it will have to go to the Senate.

But the *rush* is important. Obama made promises of transparency and also that he would not sign any bill sent to him that had not been posted publicly on the WH web site for a number of days. So far that hasn't happened. So far there has always been a reason to ignore than promise. Obama lied. And not just in the sense that he was acting on information that turned out to be wrong or incomplete. He lied about this. That matters. It matters a great deal that bills are passed and made law that *could not* have been even read by Congress *or* the President. That matters a great deal.

It matters a great deal that Obama is supporting Zalaya. It matters more than a great deal that he can not, does not, or *will* not, understand the inherent evil of personalizing politics under a dynamic individual or understand that *not* doing this is one of America's primary strengths. His understanding of government seems simple and childish, like a university professor proud of his Socialist creds and open mind and "power to the people" and Che' t-shirts... having such a shallow, purely academic, understanding that the dangers and reality of rule by tyrant are ignored.

It's also more important than Gates and Crowley that Obama has announced that he doesn't much care for the word "victory" so therefore we are not going to think in those terms about Afghanistan.

Victory is so... gauche a term. So... militant.

Icky-poo.

Matt said...

Jim

You need to cool off reading the poll numbers so much. How you arrive at your conclusions are odd. Bush's approval ratings were pretty bad in 2004 and he won the election just fine. Plus, please note we are in 2009! My goodness. It is way too soon to even consider any of this poll number stuff.

Also re your earlier comment about our agreement on Obama being political. You say he should not have 'distracted us.'
The truth of the matter is this is a media driven story. They are the ones distracting us.

BTW you may hate Obamacare but do you think [maybe] there is a heath care issue in this country? Would you like to see premiums come down? Would you like to see people be able to get coverage who can't now simply because they have a pre-exising condition that prevents them? Would you like to see people not go bankrupt from health costs?
What is your plan?
Or do you just want to see a political defeat because you think it's all just like a football game?

Ralph L said...

According to Mr. President, Sgt. Crowley suggested the beer drinking. Rather presumptious to invite oneself to the White House.

when candidate Obama tossed the bouquet of flowers
He was thinking of those Hollywood scenes of people tossing flowers in an open grave. I doubt he's ever put flowers at a filled grave. Not the type.

Synova said...

"In 2004 Dick Cheney tells Patrick Leahy on the Senate floor to 'Go fuck yourself'.

Which is worse? Do I have to ask?
"

I don't believe that I ever made an argument that we shouldn't be rude to our rulers.

YOU did that.

You were the one claiming that it was so very bad to say that one would snub the President given the opportunity.

Not me.

Even so... on Obama's own terms it is acceptable, even laudatory to do so.

I notice that not shaking hands isn't the standard anymore... but that you had to ramp it up to Cheney being rude. For what it's worth... I prefer the rough and tumble.

Alex said...

Matt - 80% of the people in this country get wonderful health care services and don't go bankrupt. I am not willing to blow it all up so that 100% of us can be miserable in ObamaCare.

Synova said...

Matt on Healthcare: "What is your plan?
Or do you just want to see a political defeat because you think it's all just like a football game?
"

As many people have pointed out... there are other plans. There are no end to suggestions of what can be done to improve health care and access to care.

The meme that there is not is just *spin*.

The reason that those small steps can not be taken and will not pass is that they might make things *better* and if things are better then we will never get government health care. Better to hurt longer than relieve issues in a way that takes the pressure off the push to universal government health care.

So who is treating it all like a football game?

Alex said...

Meme A - the only viable health care plan is single-payer

Meme B - any other solution other then single payer is "distractions" and "nutter".

Just keep repeating Memes A&B in an infinite loop, which is what you get from our trolls and on Daily Kos.

Cedarford said...

I'd be leery of meeting with pals Obama and Gates...and who knows, their co-pal Devon Patrick might show up.
It may end up as a "moral equivalency" lovefest. "Both sides were slightly at fault," Obama may magnanimously proclaim; "The key is that with this moral equivalency existing, we can have our Teaching Moment with Officer Crowley and move on as friends.

Gates: "Especially given the existance of the tapes made it difficult to mau-mau and string up the working class slob, as I initially tried."

Crowley: "It sure made me to be driven to be more sensitive to the plight of oppressed minorities like Full Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates! But as they say, you can never understand disadvantage until you have walked for a mile around the Oval Office in a black man's shoes. I have benefited from my Teaching session."

Patrick: "This is the kind of articulate response that has led myself and other powerless blacks to conclude we should allow SGT Crowley to remain in his job, perhaps even be promoted to the Commissioner's Office."

========================
Donna B. said...
The most important issue has not been discussed, or I've missed it:
What kind of beer????


I'd be a considerate guest, if I was Crowley and bring a six-pack of Kenyan Tusker beer. Hopefully the unfiltered non-export kind the Kenyans drink warm...that has chunks in it.
As a tribute to O's ancestry and Gates love of Africa as a civilization equal to the best the West or Asia ever had.
I'd bring a big, cool Sam Adams for myself - and watch Gates and Obama gag down the Tusker.

Matt said...

Synova

You have legit arguments against Obama - granted they are right wing conservative ones.
I don't see the government control that you do with the private sector. Or I mean, yes, I see government intervention but I don't see some crazy socialist plot which I think you hint at. The stimulus and the bailouts were actions that many believed were necessary. I have friends in banking and finance. They say we were dangerously close to financial collapse last October. I trust their judgment. Are they wary of Geitner and some of Obama's actions now? Yes.
Is the sky falling. I don't think so.
I actually did NOT see Bush's spying program in the way many on the left did. I'm not as far left as you may think. But I am an FDR type Democrat and I do believe in the kind of government programs that he ushered in.
There is a basic divide [or so it seems] between Democrats and Republicans. But, honestly, both believe in big government spending. It's just their choices in what they spend on are different. I think it is too early to call the stimulus a 'disaster'. It took FDR years to see results. Was FDR wrong to take the chances he took? I say no.
Also note that Obama won the election on a promise to deal with Health Care and the Economy. That is what he is doing. And the reason he wants the Healthcare right now is because deadlines are much better than putting it off until whenever. Plus in 2010 the Senate may not be 60 40 and that is enough reason in the minds of Democrats.
I agree about the transparency. Obama has not held to that promise. But I still like his platform better than that of any Republican out there. If by 2012 nothing has improved and a Republican comes along with a plan that helps the American people and can get a better Healthcare system and can bolster the financial institutions then I'll consider a vote for them. Until then I think it's time to give this President a chance.

I am not sure what you mean by Che t-shirts and such? Also not sure what you mean when you say, 'I don't believe that I ever made an argument that we shouldn't be rude to our rulers. You DID that." I don't think I did, actually.
There are no sacred cows. I hate formality and noted earlier who the f*&k cares about etiquette. I was simply looking for consistency in the argument. If one cares about the office of the President then one should not care who is there. I'd shake hands with either Bush or Obama.

Beth said...

Althouse, your poll is bullshit because it is predictable. If you ask "Should this president have done x?" the response will always, always be in the negative. Meaningless and trite.

Beth said...

Lee, what's up with your obsession with "hillbillies"? What is a hillbilly in your vocabulary? Why is there something wrong with being a hillbilly? I have to say, it's lame. I live way down in the delta now, but my people are hillbillies from way back, and I don't believe you have a clue about what that means. You're just reaching for an insult, with little imagination. Try harder.

Alex said...

Beth - obviously a hillbilly is a horrible racist redneck to be derided by city elites like him.

Alex said...

Where are "hillbillies for Obama"?

Matt said...

Alex
80% of the people in this country get wonderful health care services and don't go bankrupt.

In Canada, England and France close to 100% of the people get wonderful health care and don't go bankrupt.
They also would never replace their health care program for ours.

This plan will not replace your plan. It will not replace good doctors with government doctors. This health plan is simply to insure everyone - including those who cannot get insurance because they have nothing more than an ulcer [which is considered a preexisting condition].
So, if you work in the insurance business then yes I can understand opposition to the program.
But doctors are not going to leave the country. Good health care will not go away. Every doctor I know is for the plan. Or a plan like it.

Couple links:
http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9015187

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Alex said...

Matt - bs. If all ObamaCare was about insuring the 47m figure, I think the Blue Dogs would be for it. But what little anyone knows about the bill is that private plans get the shaft and we all get funneled into single-payer within 5-10 years. THAT is why ObamaCare has crashed and burned. Keep lying though. You know lying liars and all that lying. Maybe Al Franken can give tips.

Alex said...

Matt - and another thing. Most of Americans do not support Pelosi's big tax increase on people 250K+ incomes to fund ObamaCare. I know you are a lover of FDR/New Deal, but you have to begin realizing that this is not 1930s America.

Ralph L said...

It took FDR years to see results.
Yes, it was called World War II, and it bankrupted the rest of the world. Hoover and FDR both raised taxes and increased government interference in the markets. They thought keeping wages high would stimulate the economy. Instead it caused massive unemployment.

Roger J. said...

Genuinly a shame that poltics in this country has come down to this shit. We are really f**ked.

Obama lacked the good judgment to avoid commenting--let Gates and the cambridge PD sort this one out.

In the end, at least to me, its all about the President's remarkable lack of judgment. We have an amateur in the white house, and the real bad guys out there will be watching with interest.

L. E. Lee said...

Sorry Beth. I gave the definition of "Althouse Hillbilly" in another post. It has nothing to do with where a person is from. It is a state of mind. Alex is a classic Althouse Hillbilly.

Beth said...

Sorry, Lee. I still think it's a bad stereotype, and insulting to a whole bunch of people that have nothing to do with your animus.

bearbee said...

Audio interview with James 'call me Jim' Crowley

L. E. Lee said...

Beth, I don't think your people were hillbillies. I am sure you mean to say that they were county folk. I am obviously using "hillbilly" like how most people use "getto." "That car is so getto!" It is not a place but a state of mind. BTW, my people were poor country folk from Tennessee. They were definitly not hillbillies.

L. E. Lee said...

I would like to add Beth that I appreciate your thoughtful posts and I note your disapproval of my provocative use of the term "Althouse Hillbilly."

Jack said...

The way that Crowley will be "used" and "manipulated" by Obama will be by refusing the President's invitation to have a beer. When he refuses the offer, it will make clear to everyone that he cares only about playing the role of victim - like all conservatives.

Ralph L said...

Obama said the beer idea came from Crowley.

AJ Lynch said...

Someone here said Obama care is not about the 47 million uninsured and that is very true.

For $100 Billion, the country could give $2,000 per person to the 47 million so the could go and buy catastrophic policies. If we cut out the uninsured non-citizens, we could give $3,000 per person to about 33 million uninsured.

To be deficit neutral, we could eliminate the Dept of Education which will spend $100 billion this year (yes I know I have said this before here on Althouse).

But Obama and the Dems don't want to fix anything really;
they just want to control everything.

There is no logicsl reason to trust Obama, who has no experience running anything, with such a big big undertaking.

Alex said...

AJ Lynch - stop it with the ReTHUGlican LIE Machine! We all know it will cost $3 trillion to properly insure 47 million helpless Uh-mericans!!!!

Bush LIED PEOPLE DIED!

Joe said...

In Canada and England close to 100% of the people get shitty health care.

There, fixed that for you. (And if you don't think health care in Canada and England is pure shit, you don't know shit.)

Ralph L said...

I believe Obama realizes Medicare and Medicaid will increasingly suck up too much tax money, even with cost-shifting. He honestly thinks taking control of the rest of health care (and our insurance dollars) will prevent that. Right.

Jeremy said...

Only the wing nut crowd here would assign any semblance of reality to these inane polls.

You bitch and whine about Obama being an "elitist," and then when he tells the man to call him Barack, it's just not right...because he's the President.

You bitch and whine and refer to him as some kind of Messiah, then when he says he'll meet the guy for a beer, it's suddenly manipulation. (Any of you assholes remember the refrain always attached to little Georgie? You know..."the kind of guy you'd have a beer with?")

What a bunch of hypocritical weasels...but what else is new?

Jeremy said...

Joe said..."(And if you don't think health care in Canada and England is pure shit, you don't know shit.)"

You're the one who's completely full of shit.

Circulatory disease deaths per 100,000:

Canada: 219
United States: 265

Child maltreatment deaths per 100,000:

Canada: 0.7
United States: 2.2
Digestive disease deaths per 100,000:

Canada: 17.4
United States: 20.5

Infant mortality rate per 1,000 live births

Canada: 5.08
United States: 6.3

Intestinal diseases death rate

Canada: 0.3%
United States: 7.3%
Proability of not reaching age 60:

Canada: 9.5%
United States: 12.8%

Respiratory disease child death rate per 100,000

Canada: 0.62
United States: 40.43

Heart disease deaths per 100,000:

Canada: 94.9
United States: 106.5

HIV deaths per million people:

Canada: 47.423
United States: 48.141

Aaron said...

mmm, everyone here knows i am pretty hard on obama. but i voted that it was cool to be so informal, especially to a guy he had previously been unfair to.

Aaron said...

Jeremy

what a disingenuous comparison. there are more to those statistics than quality of health care. and of course if a canadian needs top notch care, they always have an option: go to the U.S. i suspect that all those numbers will start to go south when we are no longer their safety net.

Jeremy said...

Aaron,
Are you of the assumption that since we're the ONLY industrialized country in the world who does NOT have national health care...we're the only ones who really know how to handle the matter?

We have the highest cost for health care and rank way down the ladder in almost every category relating to overall health care throughout the world.

And, as for the standard canard that people all over the world come here for care, it's just that. (But what percentage of health care would you say is related to heart transplants or extremely serious forms of surgery or treatment...versus regular everyday forms of illness and treatment?)

Oh, and contrary to popular belief, Americans also go all over the world for health care they feel is better than what they receive here.

*Gallup - WASHINGTON, D.C. -- While domestic healthcare costs are expected to increase to an estimated 21% of GDP by 2010, some Americans may be interested in taking their healthcare spending elsewhere. A recent Gallup Poll finds that up to 29% of Americans would consider traveling abroad for medical procedures such as heart bypass surgery, hip or knee replacement, plastic surgery, cancer diagnosis and treatment, or alternative medical care, even though all are routinely done in the United States.(http://www.gallup.com/poll/118423/americans-consider-crossing-borders-medical-care.aspx)

I've traveled all over the world and have NEVER heard a discouraging word from anybody relating to their nation's health care. I have had many people ask me why we pay so much for so little.

reader_iam said...

As for me, I'm sure I could use "liberry" as some wield "getto." The question is: WTF?

traditionalguy said...

A thought on the term "Hillbilly": That usually means a poorer and less educated person. It usually does not connote a dangerous or bad person. Therefore an Althouse Hillbilly probably means a good hearted person whose comments are still rough around the edges compared to the sophisticated commenters, and otherwise are designated "Raw Material". For an exhaustive treatment of the history of us American Hillbillies, you can read Senator Jim Webb's book called "Born Fighting". That book could open the eyes of some of his fellow Democrats.

L. E. Lee said...

As I pointed out earlier, my family were poor Tennessee folks who did not have access to higher education. They were not hillbillies. They are not resentful white people.

Where Traditionalguy is right is when he writes "therefore an Althouse Hillbilly probably means a good hearted person whose comments are still rough around the edges." Where he is wrong is to think being "sophisticated" has anything to do with it. I am sure some of the Althouse Hillbillies think they are quite sophisticated. The problem is that they are also easily manipulated by the Sean Hannitys and Rush Limbaughs of the wold.
Is there any doubt that Sean and Rush will continue to make this topic their red meat wedge issue for the next couple of months. The hillbillies will lap it up.

Ralph L said...

We're caught in the Althouse Vortex--no time to check in with Rush or Inannity.

edwardroyce said...

Maybe I'm suspicious but I think it's pretty clear that Gates is going to use his position to create a meme that Crowley was in the wrong without ever having to deal with the actual evidence of his own conduct.

Crowley has only the next couple weeks to get the truth into the public conciousness before he gets steamrollered. If Crowley isn't careful he'll find himself years from now featured and caricatured in a Burns documentary about police brutality and racism.

reader_iam said...

edwardroyce:Oh,I think the archetypes have already been established, and one way or another they'll be used to and for whatever purposes.

I'd be little careful about making assumptions about or pre-ascribing positions to specific people, myself--especially at this point.

rhhardin said...

The problem is that they are also easily manipulated by the Sean Hannitys and Rush Limbaughs of the wold.

I listen to Rush and I'm in pretty flat country.

Chase said...

Just got back from the weekend to find this post.

Last Friday on Althouse, I posted the future transcript from the Oval Office soiree of the President, the Professor, and the Sgt.

And another section here.

knox said...

BTW, my people were poor country folk from Tennessee.

Some of my best friends are....

sierra said...

dbp says: I suspect that Crowley voted for and likes President Obama. In one interview I listened to on the radio, he said, "I support the President 110%". Immediately after Obama made his stupid "stupidly" comment, Crowley was asked for a reaction, to which he said rather pointedly, "I didn't vote for him." The statement of 110% support appeared to come later, apparently after one of his superiors had a word with him about being more... politic.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't think twice if the president were to dispense with formalities in certain scenarios (e.g., backrubs for Merkel), but in this case it seems awfully contrived. Publicly inviting Crowley down for a beer seems awfully forced and designed to appeal to the blue-collar set. It would seem awfully weird, wouldn't it, to specify beer if Gates, one of the nation's preeminent African American scholars, were the only invitee? I'd love it if Crowley were offered a beer, but instead requested an Argentinian Malbec.

sierra said...

...and if you summon a guy hundreds of miles away from his home just to have a beer, then dammit, there had better be decent-sized bowls of chips and salted nuts on the table.

sierra said...

I hope they at least have the decency to offer Crowley's Blue Moon with an orange slice!