May 9, 2009

Are you still thinking about why you voted the way you did last November?

Last night, I'd done another one of my Obama-is-like-Bush posts — re global warming and polar bears — and Zachary Paul Sire commented:
It's just as bad now that Obama is doing it. Worse, even.
Palladian taunted:
But you'll still love to tongue his armpits, won't you Zachy baby?!
Yanking me onto his side, Zachary came back:
You always hysterically try to paint people who voted for Obama as some kind of mob of horny, brainwashed maniacs, so is that what you make of Althouse, who voted for Obama?

And what about you, darling Palladian? Are we to assume that you voted for John McCain, or did you not vote at all? Just because there is no magic candidate that reflects all of your wildest hopes and dreams doesn't mean you have to take it out on everyone else.

Sometimes, people have the fucking balls to go with a candidate and hope for the best. Sorry you couldn't man up.
Palladian says he mainly thinks of Zachary as a horny, brainwashed maniac, and as for Althouse, he sees why I voted the way I did, though he disagrees. As for himself, he says:
I voted for McCain/Palin, but it was a meaningless vote considering my state and district. I voted out of contempt for the other candidates and as a protest against the incredibly distressing mob mentality exhibited by the citizens of my city. I was actually not going to vote for anyone on the Presidential/Vice-Presidential ticket but when I was in line at my polling place, someone laughingly said "we're racking up the votes for our man Barack!" and a few people cheered which irked me enough to pull the lever for the opposition ticket.

"Just because there is no magic candidate that reflects all of your wildest hopes and dreams doesn't mean you have to take it out on everyone else."

Huh? See, this is the difference between lovers of liberty and freedom and people like you. We don't want or need a candidate who reflects all of our "wildest hopes and dreams". We want a candidate who will leave us alone. Neither party generally delivers such candidates. It is liberals (and often also conservatives) who need to be "led", who look for a politician to be their "savior", who vest their "hopes and dreams" in the person of a politician. This is a mistake, a pathetic vestige of our dark days when we dropped on bended knee and surrendered ourselves to worldly kings and potentates.

It was your candidate who based his entire campaign upon the ambiguous and ultimately meaningless word "hope", it was you who looked to him to reflect your wildest hopes and dreams of further enslavement to the State and further erosion of our national character. And, as it always happens, it is you who ended up with the political equivalent of vaporware inhabiting the Oval Office.

"Sometimes, people have the fucking balls to go with a candidate and hope for the best. Sorry you couldn't man up."

It's funny to hear liberals constantly, un-ironically, deploy the rhetoric of masculine power (balls, fucking, "man up") in defense of the weakest of feminine traits. There's nothing manly about "hope". Men don't hope for things, they make them happen. You sold your birthright for a mess of pottage. There's nothing manly in that.

Reap the whirlwind, dear Zachary. It's wonderful to watch you twist in the wind.
Zachary? Zachary? Where are you? Evaporated?

301 comments:

1 – 200 of 301   Newer›   Newest»
AJ Lynch said...

Palladian said:

"We don't want or need a candidate who reflects all of our "wildest hopes and dreams". We want a candidate who will leave us alone. "

Professor, in your opinion, would America be better off if Congress and the states called a time out on trying to fix everything by enacting a bunch of new laws? Or as Palladian says "just leave us alone".

Pogo said...

An excellent rebuttal by Palladian.

Bastiat lives.

Pogo said...

"Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim - when he defends himself - as a criminal.


Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else
."

Frederic Bastiat

Freeman Hunt said...

"We don't want or need a candidate who reflects all of our "wildest hopes and dreams". We want a candidate who will leave us alone. "Yes. Thank you. Palladian's rebuttal perfectly encapsulates the frustration of many, including myself.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickenlittle said...

In Zach's defense, I'm not so sure he ever had any early, proper examples of how to "man up".

Penny said...

Actually, it was the first time I voted against a candidate rather than for a candidate.

Not good.

John Lynch said...

To vote is to make choices and be responsible for them. No one else has to know what your vote was, but you do.

I don't have much respect for people who won't chose but will criticize. It's a rare person who gets everything they want. Life is settling on imperfect choices. There's something adolescent and extreme about people who can't or won't compromise even enough to vote for a major party candidate.

It's stupid to vote as part of a herd, but it's also stupid to be a lone wolf. You're irrelevant, and you're engaging in the ultimate CYA. "I didn't vote for him!" Well, OK, but you didn't have the courage to vote for someone who might actually win, either. You never have to take responsibility for an election win.

It's easy to oppose. It's more fun, and makes for better ratings. But it's a real test when your guy wins. Can you still criticize when he doesn't do what you want? Or are you forced to make excuses? At what point does your integrity require you to admit a mistake? It's a lot harder to own up to a vote for the wrong guy.

People rarely admit mistakes, particularly on the internet, and it's easier to never risk it at all.

PS I voted Obama. I thought it would be Clinton 2.0. Feel free to point and laugh.

Ron said...

Bissage is wonderful, Palladian is darling...me, I'm just a be-otch!

Dody Jane said...

I don't think about WHY I voted. I wanted to register a complaint, I guess. I knew BO would win. I KNEW. So, even though my sister called as I was on my way out the door to vote and sweetly wondered if I would vote for BO since he would probably win anyway, I said no, I had to vote for JM to add weight to the scale which said, ‘I can't go THIS far.’ I agree with Palladian's final response. I just want to be left alone to deal with the vicissitudes of life as I see fit. All I really want from my government is protection from the worst of the worst. I figured JM would be very irritating, but I didn't think our relationship with Israel would be so tenuous this quickly into the new admin. BO does scare me. The people who surround him scare me, Axelrod and Emanuel (did I spell that right?) ... Gay marriage does not scare me, I wish we could speed it up (with all the careful religious exceptions and conscience exceptions in place), immigration does not scare me - look at history for goodness sakes! It worked out fine. But radical extremist terrorists scare me, the redefinition of our culture scares me, pushing away against Judeo-Christian and values through constant political correctness scare me, Socialism scares me. I like capitalism and I make under six figures. But I still like the possibilities it offers...

SugarDwayne said...

It's funny to hear liberals constantly, un-ironically, deploy the rhetoric of masculine power (balls, fucking, "man up") in defense of the weakest of feminine traits. There's nothing manly about "hope". Men don't hope for things, they make them happen.Hear, hear! Well said, Palladian.

jayne_cobb said...

That's a slow clap moment if I've ever read one

elHombre said...

Palladian, Pogo (via Bastiat), Dody Jane: What splendid comments! What splendid sentiments!

Viva la revolucion! (Peaceful, of course, Janet.)

Dale said...

I like Zach and I don't believe that he is not a lover of freedom and liberty.

But the gist of what palladian wrote so strikingly well is that America is supposed to be the antithesis of monarchy/great leader worship, which inevitably cannot help but lead to a lessening of liberties. Which is why it is so disturbing when it is plainly on the rise with Obama.

That's the shit that led to the American Revolution.

rocketeer67 said...

Good God, Palladian, you left nothing but a bloody smear.

Palladian 2012!

Because he'll leave us the hell alone.

Michael McNeil said...

Palladian says:
I voted for McCain/Palin, but it was a meaningless vote considering my state and district.

I disagree with that. Recall how Democrats shouted to the skies after the 2000 election that Al Gore was the proper, correct winner despite losing (as recounts demonstrated that he did) the electoral college vote, because he did edge out Bush in the popular vote?

Well, every vote cast for the Republican candidate (for instance), even in states like California — virtually certain to go Democratic — helps ensure that your candidate also wins the popular vote, and that the candidate you oppose doesn't.

This principle also applies of course for Democrats voting in strongly Republican states.

Bob said...

First, Palladian has nailed it.

"It's stupid to vote as part of a herd, but it's also stupid to be a lone wolf. " I have always been from the "No vote, no bitching allowed" mindset. But HOW you decide who to vote for is up to you. Just as long as you live with what you voted for. Wanna go with the herd then don't wax on about how the candidate wasn't who you thought. He fed you a line and you swallowed it so you could be part of the "in" crowd.

rhhardin said...

candidate who will leave us alone

You have to show how it will attract a 24/7 news audience. The 40% of women must not tune away.

Palladian said...

For those who don't follow the comments here closely, Zachary and I have a history of trading nastiness. I tend to tool my rhetoric to suit the commenter. Commenters who approach discussions with a vitriolic, sarcastic or dismissive tone will receive a similarly vitriolic, sarcastic and dismissive reply in kind. Zachary generally comments in this manner, so I generally amp up my reply to a suitable level. I must say that I like Zachary in my own special way. He's irritating and shallow and nasty and (of course) wrong, but he's a real person who comments in good faith using his real name. That takes "balls", unlike the repugnant psychology teacher who pollutes discussions here under various pseudonyms.

Anyway, I felt it necessary to explain my tone in that particular comment.

People need to understand that the current political debate, at least as I understand it, is not right vs. left or Democrat vs. Republican or liberal vs. conservative. It's really freedom vs. slavery. Sadly I cannot call myself a liberal anymore, since that term has been co-opted by leftists who are anything but liberal in the classical sense, nor can I call myself a conservative, since that term has been co-opted by lovers of State power of a different yet identical stripe.

I have nothing against choosing an imperfect political candidate, compromising certain things in exchange for someone who holds to certain core principles I support. But lately I have seen little difference between the parties and little support on either side for what I believe are the core principles that keep our Union together and strong. Both sides have become distributors of largess to one constituency or another, both are content to use the power of the State to enforce their own brand of morality, whether it be religious or environmental in nature. Both sides seem disingenuous and self-interested and uninterested in the core mission of government, protecting Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Both sides seem bogged down with career politicians, detached dynastic millionaires, Senators for life. And both sides seem to have no idea what it is that they stand for anymore, other than their own perpetual power, whether getting it back or keeping it.

The Democratic party is bloated with power and money but is, as it has been for years, essentially soulless, an unstable coalition of people who don't agree with each other on anything except their dislike of "the other guys". The Republican party is routed and in tatters, the victim of hubris, barely conscious on the floor, with the worst hangover of its life from a 6 year night of binging. In short, there is currently no home for anyone who isn't willing to be a happy slave.

I don't see a happy outcome to any of this. Our country has been weakened by years of intellectual, moral and spiritual damage and neglect. No one who proposes a future of freedom will be able to be heard amid the noise of the sheep being led to slaughter.

1jpb said...

Sorry to steal your thunder, but the Grateful Dead got there first:

Liberty

Saw a bird with a tear in his eye
Walking to New Orleans---my, my, my
Hey, now, Bird, wouldn't you rather die
than walk this world when you're born to fly?
If I was the sun, I'd look for shade
If I was a bed, I would stay unmade
If I was a river I'd run uphill
If you call me you know I will
If you call me you know I will
Ooo, Freedom
Ooo, Liberty
O... Leave me alone
to find my own way home
to find my own way home
Say what I mean and I don't give a damn
I do believe and I am who I am
Hey now Mama come take my hand
Whole lotta shakin' all over this land
If I was an eagle I'd dress like a duck
Crawl like a lizard and honk like a truck
If I get a notion I'll climb this tree
or chop it down and you can't stop me
Chop it down and you can't stop me
Ooo, Freedom
Ooo, Liberty
O ... leave me alone
to find my own way home
to find my own way home
Went to the well but the water was dry
Dipped my bucket in the clear blue sky
Looked in the bottom and what did I see?
The whole damned world looking back at me
If I was a bottle I'd spill for love
Sake of mercy I'd kill for love
If I was a liar I'd lie for love
Sake of my baby I'd die for love
Sake of my baby I'd die for love
Ooo Freedom
Ooo Liberty
O... Leave me alone
to find my own way home
to find my own way home
I'm gonna find my own way home

AJ Lynch said...

I am going to copy your last comment Palladian and send to my Congressman and state reps too.

F15C said...

Kudos to Palladian for nailing Zachary (No pun intended.. really), and in the process express quite well how many of us feel.

Palladian said...

Hard to argue with the Grateful Dead. Sad that the libertarian spirit of the 1960s got tangled up and snuffed out in its antithesis, "progressivism", which is simply a euphemism for Marxist-socialism which is simply a euphemism for one of the worst form of human slavery ever invented.

Darcy said...

I'm pretty dispirited too, Palladian. But if you, and so many other brilliant commenters and bloggers continue to say what you say here and there what you say eloquently...it might start to make a difference in the way people (all of us, not just those who voted Obama)think. And more importantly, act.

(Nice to see elHombre back.)

Darcy said...

And I like Zachary, too.

Nagarajan Sivakumar said...

Palladian,
Great Stuff. Really liked your last post and concur 100%

From the perspective of an outsider looking on the inside( iam from India), I agree with you and share your anguish. This is not about this label versus that label, but essentially an argument for freedom/personal responsibility versus servitude. Conservative Pols used to say the right things but they dont really mean it.Liberals as you pointed out are not liberals in the classical sense but are ever ready to expand the influence of Govt.

The reason why Big Government will always be here to stay is that Republican politicians have essentially surrendered - they have basically showed that in order to "win elections", they will pander to every possible interest group no matter how harmful it is to the country- i.e. there is no real difference between Republicans and liberal Democrats.

It is scary to imagine what is going to happen when the Social Security/Medicare SH***T hits the fan - this argument about individual liberty and responsibility is going to become even more valid.

The question is will this argument win out? At this point, the answer sadly is a resounding NO.

The official changing of this country into the United States Socialist Republic looks increasingly likely.

knox said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Theo Boehm said...

All here who expect the State to wither of its own accord, please raise his or her hand.

knox said...

I am so glad Althouse front-paged Palladian's quote. It was more than worthy.

I too think this is the crux of it: We want a candidate who will leave us alone.

I myself have considered not voting next time--neither party has earned my vote. To the contrary, I feel like they are both working for the destruction of our country. I detest giving my approval to either of them.

knox said...

Hoo boy, we're all going to be on that DHS Domestic Terrorist Watch List after this one, along with the poor veterans.

Palladian said...

"All here who expect the State to wither of its own accord, please raise his or her hand."

This is the problem. Power gained is not usually relinquished without a struggle. And we no longer have the will for a struggle, peaceful or otherwise.

The media (and not just the news media, but the entire organ of non-interactive distribution such as tv, newspapers) does not want anything to change. There's too much money to be made in slavery.

Palladian said...

"Hoo boy, we're all going to be on that DHS Domestic Terrorist Watch List after this one, along with the poor veterans."

Bring it on.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nagarajan Sivakumar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nagarajan Sivakumar said...

"Hoo boy, we're all going to be on that DHS Domestic Terrorist Watch List after this one"

Now that should be the DHS Domestic Disaster Causing Men watch list.

FIFY, Knox.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Fine. I'm caffeinated.
I voted for McCain/Palin, but it was a meaningless vote considering my state and district. I voted out of contempt for the other candidates and as a protest against the incredibly distressing mob mentality exhibited by the citizens of my city.

What a drama queen. Can't handle the people in your city? Move. Heh, letting people have such an influence over your vote is...ironic.
"Just because there is no magic candidate that reflects all of your wildest hopes and dreams doesn't mean you have to take it out on everyone else."

Huh? See, this is the difference between lovers of liberty and freedom and people like you.


You're a lot of things, but I never took you for someone who used meaningless (not to mention inaccurate) cliches.
We don't want or need a candidate who reflects all of our "wildest hopes and dreams". We want a candidate who will leave us alone. Neither party generally delivers such candidates.

I hear this complaint often, and I wonder when, in the past 50 years, such a candidate or president existed? Can you name one? Throw out an actual name of someone so we can get a better idea of who you wildly hope and dream will totally leave you alone.

It might surprise you to know that I'm pretty aligned with Palladian politically. I too see being left alone as a virtue, but the difference is that I have empathy for those who need to be taken care of. You may be fabulous and not need any help, but not everyone is so fortunate. We should have a leader who takes everyone into account. Would you prefer it if Obama just told everyone to fuck off and hibernated for 4 years. Don't answer that.
It is liberals (and often also conservatives) who need to be "led", who look for a politician to be their "savior", who vest their "hopes and dreams" in the person of a politician. This is a mistake, a pathetic vestige of our dark days when we dropped on bended knee and surrendered ourselves to worldly kings and potentates.

You know, you lose a lot of credibility when you put "often conservatives" in parentheses, inferring that they are less likely to need to be led. Your deal here has always been to attack liberals, not conservatives, and yet you present yourself as some sort of evolved libertarian who hates everyone. As far as dropping to our knees for Obama, well, sure. The media loved showing all the Obama fanatics doing that. But I don't think there's anyone here on Althouse who has gone that far. Even downtownlad and michael/jeremy spend most of their time bashing Bush instead of praising Obama.

I voted for Obama for a number of reasons, but none of them had anything to do with putting all my "hopes and dreams" in him. Transferring all that you see in the media, or what you saw at your polling place on election day, onto me or any other Obama voter here is incredibly juvenile, immature, and plain stupid.

And if you really loved freedom and liberty as much as you say you do, you'd respect every American's vote, even the votes that were cast for Obama, no matter how hysterical or subdued they were.
And, as it always happens, it is you who ended up with the political equivalent of vaporware inhabiting the Oval Office.

You were peddling this shit a year ago, so it doesn't make it any more true today, 110 days into Obama's term.
Men don't hope for things, they make them happen. You sold your birthright for a mess of pottage. There's nothing manly in that.

Well, I don't know that I would go so far as to say that I "sold my birthright" in voting for someone to hold office for four years, but if you want to put it that way, I'll let you have you fun.

And speaking of manly, there's certainly no manlier, masculine way to end a sentence than with the words "mess of pottage."

Big Mike said...

Well, Professor, you teach law, and you supported Barack Obama, but so far this administration seems to be at best lawless and at worst contemptuous of the law. Do your colleagues who teach contracts law support the actions of the Obama administration with respect to the AIG bonuses and the Chrysler bailout? Or is this why you run so many "Obama is like Bush" posts? Note, BTW, that the Bush administration always sought bipartisan support for major actions and sought legal support for its interrogation methods.

I voted for McCain, because to me words like "integrity" and "ethics" are important in a president, and McCain has both by the shovel full. Of the little record that Obama had, there were ample signs that he was lacking in both. If anything his administration to date is worse than I had predicted.

Palladian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

You exhibit a child's understanding of the world, Zachary, coupled with a child's vocabulary and a child's temperament. But thank you for providing the impetus to write some things that have been on my mind. You're good for something.

madawaskan said...

What's become-

absolutely appalling-

about Obama-is that he is so completely focused on his enemies-Republicans- that he's lost all objective.

What is right for the country as whole be damned.

America just isn't worth it.

America-what was the best thing about it?

Well it wasn't some wispy ideas really it was something more concrete than that.

It was O-P-P-U-R-T-U-N-I-T-Y.

Immigrants didn't flock to this country because they had read some preamble they came here because they had the freedom, they had half a chance to create a better world for themselves and their children -economically.

Obama is attacking the very heart of that.

That became readily apparent to me when he made his latest pronouncements while revealing confidential stuff-supposedly while in earnest search for the Truth.

All the while saying it is -THIS.

Well if Obama has already determined what "it" is-why the inquiry?

Interesting.

Asking historically if any country has ever done at wartime what Obama has started the answer sometimes is-well the Greeks did it.

Well this is the Information Age -factor that to the tenth power into your equations.

One other thought-

Democrats want to replace Religion with Government ,Republicans conflate Religion with Politics.

Those that think some politician wasn't "pure" enough to vote for?

Go get a priest or something...

When it comes to politics?

Shut up and choose.

And if you didn't?

Really what are you whining about? You told everybody you were unreasonable, you said you wouldn't vote or participate, you were willing to do that on a whim-during some of America's most trying times- and you expect politicians to still cater to you?

I

Juris Dentist said...

What is that giant sucking sound, you might wonder?

It is Althouse sucking up to the right-wing fringe.

downtownlad said...

Actually, I voted for Obama and I don't give a fuck about the Polar Bears. So he hasn't betrayed any of my hopes and dreams. He's doing a damn fine job.

Palladian has just proved himself to be another self-loathing faggot.

downtownlad said...

My theory is that Palladian is self-loathing, because he's a fat fuck, and thus none of the cute gay men pay attention to him.

Thus the self-loathing . . .

Donn said...

I'm off to look at the book United in Hate in a few, and this comment from Amazon seems pertinent to the discussion at hand.

`United in Hate' is a book that must be read by everyone who loves freedom and life. For those of us who are students of today's continually colliding worlds of East and West, Left or Right, Suicide Bomber or Social Engineers, it is a must read. `United In Hate' is not just another book written about Islam, nor is it a book that only rehashes histories about Stalin or Lenin. Jamie Glazov has written a book that goes beyond actions or words to expose the motivations of why these two natural enemies, Radical Islam and the Liberal Left, are caressing each other in a warm embrace of death. Glazov could not have expressed the dangers we face with an Obama Administration or the utter catastrophe that could erupt in America with current new occupants in the White House. Glazov stated, "United in Hate crystallizes the danger that a Barack Obama administration, if tilted too far left, presents to American security and global freedom."

madawaskan said...

is that I have empathy for those who need to be taken care of.So you've allowed yourself to be guilted into voting for the economy to become something it never really has been before..

And you are sure that decades of our way of life should be tossed away radically and a brave new frontier with little foundation is the path for America's future because Obama is the only one with the brains enough to forge it out?

What you should do ZPS is vote your own situation-not what the media tells you about everyone else.

Homelessness just doesn't get reported as much when a Democrat is in power-so you don't have to see it.

It's not that Democrats have the "magic bullet" that answers that.

It's only the man behind the curtain-vote Democrat and you just don't have to "see" it as much.

John Kindley said...

Palladian said: "Sadly I cannot call myself a liberal anymore, since that term has been co-opted by leftists who are anything but liberal in the classical sense, nor can I call myself a conservative, since that term has been co-opted by lovers of State power of a different yet identical stripe."

Call yourself a philosophical anarchist. The demystification of the State is our best hope for a Revolution that doesn't result in something worse (our present government, after all, is far more oppressive than the British state Thomas Jefferson et al. revolted against). It is possible to be simultaneously both radical and conservative.
Allow me to take advantage of this Palladian-inspired thread by putting in a shameless plug for my new blog: PEOPLEvSTATE.com.

madawaskan said...

DTL-

You opted out and moved to Hong Kong and I remember years ago under Bush when you were concerned supposedly about the unemployment rate and the lack or quality of the jobs being created by the economy back then.

Obama is "creating" quality jobs?

Or the truth-you just really don't care about that anymore.

You got to stick it to your ultimate enemy-Republicans and they are all the same.

AJ Lynch you called a homophobe based only on the fact that he voted for McCain -he could have no other legitimate reasons in your book.

AJ Lynch said...

DTL:

FYI Palladian's commentary had very little to do with either Obama or Bush or polar bears.

madawaskan said...

Juris Dentist-

W.C. Mountain.

end of story.

Big Mike said...

@Juris Dentist, I think the Professor is sucking up to the center, and we're not a fringe.

Jason said...

Yes, Obama is all about helping the less fortunate.

That's why, not two months into office, one of the first things his administration did was call for rolling back the tax deduction for charitable donations.

downtownlad said...

Yes - If you voted for McCain, or any Republican, you are a homophobe. or self-loathing. I still stand by that. The Republican Party platform pretty much states that gays shall be second class citizens. If you're not a liberal, but you happen to be gay, you can easily register as an Independent and vote for a third party candidate. I say that as someone who has voted third-party many times. I only voted Democrat for President once in my life (for Obama - who I don't love but I think he's competent).

Then again - I also believe that the vast majority of Americans are homophobic, including many Democrats.

Obama is doing a very decent job as President, and is already turning the economy around. That is what most people care most about, including me.

Theo Boehm said...

If we are to have long posts, let's have a little Shakespeare, on the matter and power of the State, to consider:

MENENIUS: What work's, my countrymen, in hand? where go you
With bats and clubs? The matter? speak, I pray you.

First Citizen: Our business is not unknown to the Senate; they have
had inkling this fortnight what we intend to do,
which now we'll show 'em in deeds. They say poor
suitors have strong breaths: they shall know we
have strong arms too.

MENENIUS: Why, masters, my good friends, mine honest neighbours,
Will you undo yourselves?

First Citizen: We cannot, sir, we are undone already.

MENENIUS: I tell you, friends, most charitable care
Have the patricians of you. For your wants,
Your suffering in this dearth, you may as well
Strike at the heaven with your staves as lift them
Against the Roman state, whose course will on
The way it takes, cracking ten thousand curbs
Of more strong link asunder than can ever
Appear in your impediment. For the dearth,
The gods, not the patricians, make it, and
Your knees to them, not arms, must help. Alack,
You are transported by calamity
Thither where more attends you, and you slander
The helms o' the state, who care for you like fathers,
When you curse them as enemies.

First Citizen: Care for us! True, indeed! They ne'er cared for us
yet: suffer us to famish, and their store-houses
crammed with grain; make edicts for usury, to
support usurers; repeal daily any wholesome act
established against the rich, and provide more
piercing statutes daily, to chain up and restrain
the poor. If the wars eat us not up, they will; and
there's all the love they bear us.

MENENIUS: Either you must
Confess yourselves wondrous malicious,
Or be accused of folly. I shall tell you
A pretty tale: it may be you have heard it;
But, since it serves my purpose, I will venture
To stale 't a little more.

First Citizen: Well, I'll hear it, sir: yet you must not think to
fob off our disgrace with a tale: but, an 't please
you, deliver.

MENENIUS: There was a time when all the body's members
Rebell'd against the belly, thus accused it:
That only like a gulf it did remain
I' the midst o' the body, idle and unactive,
Still cupboarding the viand, never bearing
Like labour with the rest, where the other instruments
Did see and hear, devise, instruct, walk, feel,
And, mutually participate, did minister
Unto the appetite and affection common
Of the whole body. The belly answer'd--

First Citizen: Well, sir, what answer made the belly?

MENENIUS: Sir, I shall tell you. With a kind of smile,
Which ne'er came from the lungs, but even thus--
For, look you, I may make the belly smile
As well as speak--it tauntingly replied
To the discontented members, the mutinous parts
That envied his receipt; even so most fitly
As you malign our senators for that
They are not such as you.

First Citizen: Your belly's answer? What!
The kingly-crowned head, the vigilant eye,
The counsellor heart, the arm our soldier,
Our steed the leg, the tongue our trumpeter.
With other muniments and petty helps
In this our fabric, if that they--

MENENIUS: What then?
'Fore me, this fellow speaks! What then? what then?

First Citizen: Should by the cormorant belly be restrain'd,
Who is the sink o' the body,--

MENENIUS: Well, what then?

First Citizen: The former agents, if they did complain,
What could the belly answer?

MENENIUS: I will tell you
If you'll bestow a small--of what you have little--
Patience awhile, you'll hear the belly's answer.

First Citizen: Ye're long about it.

MENENIUS: Note me this, good friend;
Your most grave belly was deliberate,
Not rash like his accusers, and thus answer'd:
'True is it, my incorporate friends,' quoth he,
'That I receive the general food at first,
Which you do live upon; and fit it is,
Because I am the store-house and the shop
Of the whole body: but, if you do remember,
I send it through the rivers of your blood,
Even to the court, the heart, to the seat o' the brain;
And, through the cranks and offices of man,
The strongest nerves and small inferior veins
From me receive that natural competency
Whereby they live: and though that all at once,
You, my good friends,'--this says the belly, mark me,--

First Citizen: Ay, sir; well, well.

MENENIUS: 'Though all at once cannot
See what I do deliver out to each,
Yet I can make my audit up, that all
From me do back receive the flour of all,
And leave me but the bran.' What say you to't?

First Citizen: It was an answer: how apply you this?

MENENIUS: The Senators of Rome are this good belly,
And you the mutinous members; for examine
Their counsels and their cares, digest things rightly
Touching the weal o' the common, you shall find
No public benefit which you receive
But it proceeds or comes from them to you
And no way from yourselves. What do you think,
You, the great toe of this assembly?

First Citizen: I the great toe! why the great toe?

MENENIUS: For that, being one o' the lowest, basest, poorest,
Of this most wise rebellion, thou go'st foremost:
Thou rascal, that art worst in blood to run,
Lead'st first to win some vantage.
But make you ready your stiff bats and clubs:
Rome and her rats are at the point of battle;
The one side must have bale.

—Coriolanus
, Act 1, scene 1

Chip Ahoy said...

Palladian, that was a thing of beauty to behold. Never have I seen my own disjointed sentiments bundled together so well and reflected back with such perfection. You are a gem.

Thank you, Althouse, for bringing this forward, I missed it in the comments.

downtownlad said...

Wonder how many innocent gay people Chip Ahoy is going to gay-bash today?

downtownlad said...

How many gay "friends" is Chip Ahoy going to dump, simply because they are gay.

downtownlad said...

I didn't dump all my gay friends either, I simply chose not to comport with anybody unlovely. Got that, Stupid? I have no reason to put myself in the presence of undelightful people. I don't allow it. Having made that decision, nearly all my gay friends have dismissed themselves and my social circle had diminished considerably, and I'm altogether better off because of it. - Chip Ahoy

madawaskan said...

downtownlad-

So you answered the first question which I think just proves a theory that Democrats might be narcissistic-but how about the second question?

Do you think the Obama Economy is "creating" real jobs?

Both in numbers and in quality...

Nagarajan Sivakumar said...

I too see being left alone as a virtue, but the difference is that I have empathy for those who need to be taken care of. You may be fabulous and not need any help, but not everyone is so fortunate. We should have a leader who takes everyone into account. Would you prefer it if Obama just told everyone to fuck off and hibernated for 4 years. Don't answer that.Actually,please allow me to answer "that".

I have been hearing the liberals have more "empathy" nonsense for far too long. I cannot take it anymore. So, here goes.

For starters, conservatives dont think that feeling sorry for a person's condition is going to make it any better - and we sure as hell dont want to make them feel like victims.

Conservatives have no objections to privately helping people out who are down in their lives. In fact they most often do -more so than loud mouthed trash talkers like you. Conservatives have always donated more to their fellow men than liberals have.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

http://digg.com/politics/Conservatives_charitably_donate_30_more_than_liberals_as_a_whole

Nicolas Kristof from the NYT actually called them Bleeding Heart Tightwads.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=3

He wrote this article during Christmas season - a time of giving and genorosity.

What is very clear is that liberals do not personally believe in helping those who are less fortunate. They want the Government to help them ! Unfortunately for the liberals, Government does not have any magical money to play around with - it comes from the taxpayers pockets ( although in the last 6 months the US govt has actually acted as though it has trillions of magical money to spend)

Liberals in general are demanding other people's money and other's generosity when they ask for the Government to intervene.

Being generous with other people's money is called theft in my books -and you dont need any "compassion" to demand that the Government take other people's money.

If you want to help people, do it in your own way and your own time with your own money - dont coerce others through Government mandates and taxation to do so. In short, keep your morality to yourself, if you cannot do a fricking thing about it.

Conservatives on the other hand not only donate their time and money more generously than their liberal counterparts - they also know that you cannot keep donating and being generous all your life.

Feed a man for one day versus teaching him to fish - which is the better approach ? Conservatives obviously believe that if a person could be nudged towards a path of self help and reliance, it is better for his/her dignity and life in the long run.

Liberals have never bothered to ask, "how long should Government mandated genorosity continue?" or how it affects people's spirit of self reliance. They never did because they used this "compassionate" meme to solidify their vote banks. It was only until Clinton came along that welfare reform was no longer a taboo topic - and even for doing that Clinton was criticized-most recently by Barack Obama himself.

Liberals version of compassion has led this country to the path of the Medicare/Social Security implosion that will start happening within the next decade.

You want to help other people -please do so - using your own money and time - dont campaign for coercively getting this money from people who dont agree with your idea of help.

Being generous with other people's money is called theft. If you dont have the money but only the desire to be generous, try to come up in life and earn more money so that you can afford to be generous.

How ever if you cannot afford generosity, dont shove your hollow morals down other people's throats.
It is always interesting to hear liberals complain about how the Christian Right has been trying to shove their religious morality down other people's throats when the Left has been doing the exact same thing (starting with the religious norality of FDR and continued by the secular progressives/Marxists) and very successfully since the New Deal.

Palladian said...

If you want to know what Zachary will be like when he grows up, look at downtownlad. Or perhaps not. Unlike downtownlad, Zachary courageously comments under his real name. downtownlad hides behind a pseudonym and anonymity because he's a coward and knows that his infantile behavior would not be tolerated in polite society. This is not really surprising because, according to his dead blog, downtownlad spent most of his life cowering in the closet, taking advantage of the benefits of an assumed heterosexual life until he felt financially and personally comfortable enough to "come out". Meanwhile, people like Zachary and I have (as far as I know) always been "out of the closet" and have withstood the suffering and happiness that come with honesty. While I was defending myself in my rural high school, downtownlad was playing a game all day and spent his evenings on his knees sucking cock in bathroom stalls. I hate pseudo-psychiatric terms like "self loathing" but since we're already casting it around, there seems to be no more classic example of a self-hater than downtownlad. Read what he writes and ask yourself if his poison comes from a person capable of loving anyone, including himself. I've sadly met a lot of ruined gay men like downtownlad, who allowed their self-hatred and the trauma of their identity to wreck their capacity for human feelings. Like all borderline personalities, they are only able to express their feelings in terms of anger and in conditions of extremity.

Now downtownlad uses the internet to perpetuate his psychological closet, the anonymity, the self-imposed isolation, the brief, animalistic exchanges, the rejection of intimacy. downtownlad never left his closet, and he's taking it out on the world.

I apologize for comparing you to dtl, Zachary. You're merely childish and silly. downtownlad is a sociopath.

madawaskan said...

downtownlad-

Are you just pretending not to know the whole of Chip Ahoy's story?

Do you like to leave the uncomfortable truth out?

And- you can rest on that because you know the whole story is completely painful for him and he won't venture down that road on every bloody single thread where you bring it up?

Palladian said...

"Do you like to leave the uncomfortable truth out?"

downtownlad survives by leaving out uncomfortable truths.

downtownlad said...

Yes, Madawaskan - I think the stimulus plan is working. Jobs are starting to be created. You won't see it in the unemployment numbers until year-end, because unemployment is a lagging indicator.

But if you ask me - the recession is now ending. We may or may not have growth this month, but Q3 will be positive growth. Of course we won't know until about a year from now if I'm correct or not, but that's my take on the situation.

Time will tell. I'm willing to admit I was wrong if the economy continues to tank.

Paddy O. said...

"I too see being left alone as a virtue, but the difference is that I have empathy for those who need to be taken care of."

In the circles I'm in this is a big argument for going Democratic.

Indeed, there's a part of me that would be swayed by Democrats because of this one. Except I absolutely, and utterly, don't equate talking about helping with actual helping.

Growing up I was significantly poor and so know what living like that is about.

Still, I don't vote for the Democrats. Why? Because government is inherently corruptible, wasteful, bureaucratic. Instead of helping people, the methods of government assistance degrade them, making a class out of the poor, keeping enough sustenance coming in to suggest help, but not too much so that the formerly poor will leave the teat.

That's evident all around the world. South America, Africa, all over. The rhetoric of helping the poor is almost always, practically, expressed in hatred for the poor, using them as objects for personal and political gain. That's why in the present congress we have continued scandals. Murtha hates the poor. Pelosi hates the poor. If they didn't they'd clean up their party, and themselves.

The rhetoric of empathy for the poor is completely undermined by the actions. They want an underclass to be used, abused, then tossed aside--an underclass made up of all kinds of diverse participants.

Just like Chavez. Just like Mugabe. Of course, I'm not comparing Obama to these, but this is certainly the direction his party is leading us, unrepentantly, covered in lies, bleeding us dry, hindering us helping each other within our communities.

If you have empathy, there's no reason to go through the government, pay the corrupt they're legal sanctioned bribes to force the needy into degrading offices begging help from arrogant bureaucrats. Just help them. Help them yourself or through giving to the myriad of truly honest, hardworking, dedicated organizations.

madawaskan said...

Palladian-

Well that would be one way to do it.

downtownlad-

I just don't see how the jobs that are 'created' are sustainable over time.

I think by November-we could see -

double digit unemployment.

Chip Ahoy said...

DTL, piss off.

madawaskan said...

Paddy O.

I think however, that is how Democrats win the famous Catholic swing vote every time.

If they get socialism and actually allow room for religion and don't see it as a competitor for power-it's all over.

If it isn't already.

Henry said...

Are you still thinking about why you voted the way you did last November?Not much.

We had two terrible candidates -- one a brainy egotist with no experience, the other an experienced egotist with no brains.

I voted for the one I thought would do less damage, which happened to be McCain. My main criteria was which candidate would be most likely to provide a check to congress (and which was most likely to be checked in return).

Nothing that has happened since the inauguration has changed my opinion. But it's early yet, as the day-counters keep reminding us.

downtownlad said...

Actually, I don't reveal my identity for one reason - because Palladian is a psycho who would try to destroy my career.

I came out of the closet in the late 1990's. Palladian's willful ignorance aside, there were far fewer out gay Americans at that time. You'd be hard pressed to name a gay celebrity, for example, who was out then. Sure there were a few, but nothing like today. And I have no qualms admitting that I was self-loathing when I was closeted. Sure, since Palladian was extremely femme, he didn't ever have to "come out" - everyone already knew. But some people take longer to come to terms with their sexuality. Since Palladian has no gay friends, he of course has no clue about that.

But Palladian, self-loathing that he is, continues to attack gay people simply for being gay. That is why he HAS NO GAY FRIENDS. Thus, the self-loathing.

William said...

I voted for McCain. I wasn't expecting Pericles if he won. I thought he would be right, especially in matters of war and foreign policy, more often than the other guy. I still think this appraisal was correct....On the other hand, there's been some good things about the Obama Presidency. Not in matters of policy, but just in its very existence. I think his election has diminished the amount of alienation that many minorities feel toward America. For the white liberals, his election has given them a god sent opportunity to demonstrate how they've transcended all their prejudices. They are like Carmelite novitiates who celebrate their transcedence of sexuality by becoming the bride of Christ each and every night. In many ways, the true purpose of government is to make liberals feel good about themselves. For the nonce, Obama has achieved this difficult feat and proper credit should be given.

downtownlad said...

Chip Ahoy gets so upset each time I quote him.

Again - here is Chip Ahoy. Hater of gay people.

I didn't dump all my gay friends either, I simply chose not to comport with anybody unlovely. Got that, Stupid? I have no reason to put myself in the presence of undelightful people. I don't allow it. Having made that decision, nearly all my gay friends have dismissed themselves and my social circle had diminished considerably, and I'm altogether better off because of it. - Chip Ahoy

rhhardin said...

I tend to tool my rhetoric to suit the commenter. Commenters who approach discussions with a vitriolic, sarcastic or dismissive tone will receive a similarly vitriolic, sarcastic and dismissive reply in kind.

An armed society is a polite society.

downtownlad said...

Does Palladian even have a job by the way?

I know his art sucks and nobody buys it. But how does even pay his bills?

downtownlad said...

And Palladian - who bashes anonymity - why has he suddenly removed the picture of his fat fuck self from the web?

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
downtownlad said...

Madawaskan - We probably will see double digit unemployment. So what. As I said - unemployment is a lagging indicator.

We had double digit unemployment under Reagan too, 2 years into his term, before seeing a rather dramatic recovery.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...

downtownlad-

Well the difference between NOW and Reagan would be in-

who is "creating" the jobs.
Government or......?

I'm basing my last comment on this buried in the last graph of a USA Today article-

Business investment, down 37.9%

Businesses drastically cut their spending on equipment and software and structures in the first quarter, leading to a record 37.9% plunge in overall business investment.

That followed a 21.7% drop in the fourth quarter and was the biggest decline since quarterly records began more than 60 years ago. The drop subtracted 4.7 percentage points from GDP.
Reference

madawaskan said...

Look my boy toy is from Queens like I told ya-

I can put up wid' da Giants, hell even the Rangers but the Yankees?

Are you kidding me!?

downtownlad said...

Government is creating the jobs. Although 95% of them are in the private sector. That is the idea of the stimulus package.

But they are not permanent jobs. The idea is to stop the cliff-diving, stabilize the economy, and fill the output gap in the economy. Then when the economy starts growing again, the private sector can take over.

It's not very complicated. It's mainstream economics as well, not very controversial.

And if Obama has other plans - if he wants the government to continue to have the government create jobs - after the output gap has been closed - I would have major issues with that. But I don't think he will do that. As I've said before, he seems to be a technocrat, not a liberal. There is a big difference.

Palladian said...

"Since Palladian has no gay friends, he of course has no clue about that.

But Palladian, self-loathing that he is, continues to attack gay people simply for being gay. That is why he HAS NO GAY FRIENDS. Thus, the self-loathing"

My boyfriend thought this part was extremely funny.

He also suggested that you probably have a small penis, but I told him that wasn't very nice.

For someone who is worried about being stalked, you sure purport to know an awful lot about me, downtownlad. Apparently my artwork "sucks", I'm fat, I'm not masculine, I don't have a job and I have no gay friends. Well, the fat part is right. As for the rest, I suggest you work on your stalking skills, Mary. They suck.

Why don't you tell us a few things about yourself, dtl? Funny that you think that if your "real life" became aware of your "online life" it would "destroy your career". What do you do, anyway? Priest? Congressman? It must be strange to go through life fearing that people might find out your real thoughts and opinions. But then, I was never a closet case like you, so I defer to your expertise in the area of psychological degradation.

By the way, does anyone notice what downtownlad is doing? He's running interference, preventing us from talking about the subject of this post. Interesting that every time we start to discuss subversive topics such as liberty, one of the interference operatives shows up to sow disorder and destruction. Funny, that...

Anyway, no more responding to downtownlad folks. He's probably rubbed himself raw by this point.

madawaskan said...

Wiliam-

They are like Carmelite novitiates who celebrate their transcedence of sexuality by becoming the bride of Christ...Oh gawd...sorry still don't think it was worth it.

Palladian said...

"And Palladian - who bashes anonymity - why has he suddenly removed the picture of his fat fuck self from the web?"

How does one remove pictures of themselves "from the web"? Is there some special tool the boys in Thailand use?

Creepy to think of downtownlad's semen-crusted fingers googling me frantically to try and make fun of my picture. Here you go, Mary. But it's pic for pic. Let's see your saggy old ass.

downtownlad said...

It's quite simple - my job does not allow me to have an online identity that can be tied to my job. If a random newsreporter asked me a question about a random subject, for a man on the street interview, I would get fired if I gave my name without the company's permission. So I am required by my job to maintain anonymity.

It's quite common actually. If you had a job, you might know that.

downtownlad said...

Um - your "gays are pedophiles" attacks are - what's the word for it - yes - "self-loathing".

knox said...

I voted for Obama for a number of reasons, but none of them had anything to do with putting all my "hopes and dreams" in him.
Yeah, right.

knox said...

I too see being left alone as a virtue, but the difference is that I have empathy for those who need to be taken care of.

I bet you give 120% too.

Superhumanly hardworking AND caring.

downtownlad said...

Actually Palladian - you're not as fat as I thought.

But you're still a fuck.

somefeller said...

You are a good-looking guy, Palladian. Though I'm probably just saying that because you look like a slightly heavier and much hairier version of me. No pictures, though, I want to maintain an air of mystery. Plus, it's not like I'm being paid to write this stuff.

downtownlad said...

Nighty-nite eveyone. Especially you my sweety-pie Palladian. I couldn't get my kicks without you.

Paddy O. said...

"I think however, that is how Democrats win the famous Catholic swing vote every time."

True.

And how they are developing a burgeoning Evangelical swing-vote. There's a small, but quite vocal and growing, movement of younger Evangelicals who see social action as part of their faith, and see social action as the domain of Democrats. But, yet, while such folks have a lot to say against war, I've not heard anything said against corruption--unless its Republican corruption that can be exploited.

Personally, I'd rather have someone publicly say "I don't care, take care of yourself", then say "I care. Give me money to show how much the government cares" then leaves me to still take care of myself and others, but with a lot more red tape and a lot more bribes needing to be paid.

Why there's still hunger in Africa... all those people caring for the poor who want their bank accounts filled first.

somefeller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
somefeller said...

As far as how I voted last November, I'm thus far happy with what I've seen thus far. What's not to like?

And as far as Bastiat is concerned, "The Law" is a fun read when you're a sophomore in college, but life is a bit more complicated than the Bastiats of the world are willing to admit. Libertarianism sounds great on paper, but like so many other things that sound good on paper, doesn't really work in real life. Advanced societies need some sort of a strong central state to function well, so it's really just a question of what kind of strong state you prefer, libertarian rhetoric notwithstanding.

madawaskan said...

Paddy O.

Personally, I'd rather have someone publicly say "I don't care, take care of yourself", then say "I care. Give me money to show how much the government cares" then leaves me to still take care of myself and others, but with a lot more red tape and a lot more bribes needing to be paid. That about sums it up-I think I just go with who ever seems to lie to me the least. That almost always boils down to who promises me the least. Kinda weird.

That reminds me reading the last of your comment-

Poor Mia Farrow! If you starve yourself for Darfur when a Democrat is president-

Will the forest of newspapers and media let anyone hear you?

Fen said...

Best post I've ever seen here.

Frame this part:

Palladian: "It was your candidate who based his entire campaign upon the ambiguous and ultimately meaningless word "hope", it was you who looked to him to reflect your wildest hopes and dreams of further enslavement to the State and further erosion of our national character. And, as it always happens, it is you who ended up with the political equivalent of vaporware inhabiting the Oval Office."Nothing more need be said.

Fen said...

John: PS I voted Obama. I thought it would be Clinton 2.0. Feel free to point and laugh.Hey, I voted for Obama in the Maryland primary, just to spite the Wicked Witch. So no pointing from me.

Michael Hasenstab said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Juris Dentist: What is that giant sucking sound, you might wonder? It is Althouse sucking up to the right-wing fringe..

Uh no. I'm the right-wing fringe and Ann's showcase of Palladian's post has me wanting to moderate toward him.

Its as if there are people on both sides of the aisle putting aside less important differences so they can form up together to defend Liberty.

I like that. Alot.

Thank you Ann.

madawaskan said...

downtownlad-

Shoot somehow I didn't see this comment until now-does anybody else have comments load weird?

Anyways-

DTL said-

And if Obama has other plans - if he wants the government to continue to have the government create jobs - after the output gap has been closed - I would have major issues with that. But I don't think he will do that. As I've said before, he seems to be a technocrat, not a liberal. There is a big difference.

That's an awful lot to hinge on one fellow-to believe that the power won't corrupt him.

So you hinge betting the whole of the American Dream on one personality.

He's been given that much power in your own rubric.

Truth be told though it doesn't depend solely on Obama's character it depends on Democrats like Pelosi, Reid and the wonders of moral cleanliness on the Finance Committee.

The idea that in America we would hand that much of our power-economics-to politicians is at it's very base treacherous.

Without our economy America ceases to be America.

To believe that Obama et al would just surrender that power back easily - I guess you have to have the Democrat version of religious fervor.

Chip Ahoy said...

I must thank DTL for quoting me exactly and not paraphrasing carelessly. It shows he copies/pastes/and saves to hard-drive very well. Congratulations on demonstrating again the points I've made by your response to my praise of Palladian. DTL, were you one of those original friends who went over the cliff unlovely indulging in abject BDS, tainting every meeting, not satisfied until every single party without exception, every birthday, every funeral, every holiday gathering, every bar mitzvah, every bris, every single picnic, is envenomated with that bile, then you too would have dismissed yourself from my life. At that time I felt forced to make changes for my own mental health. My life was diminished tremendously by those events and I was saddened by the choices that were forced on me by the personality changes and the resulting changes in observable behavior that emerged from their response to the challenges faced by the Bush administration. I'll maintain I made the right choices, there's only so much mileage one can expect to get from "The devil made me mean" excuse for complete personality disruption. I'll add here, to my distress I've noticed these same people once all lovely, viewed as a group, including you DTL, behave just as poorly as winners of elections as they do as losers of elections.

Hold grudges much?

I must add, congratulations too on driving attention from a compliment to Palladian's expression to yourself and your own homosexuality, which appears to be your standard operating procedure. Sure wouldn't want anyone to forget for a moment about that. It is, after all, in your world the single most important thing driving all politics.

DTL, be sure to copy/paste and add this to your Chip Ahoy file along with your other items and don't omit it next time you quote me: I know you do this because you just want a little attention from me. I can not explain why I see so much of this in real life. Fine. *smack* I'm not going to top you, Silly, you're too mean and angry, and, no, you can not blow me.

It just occurred to me, did you copy/paste my picture to your Chip Ahoy file too in order to enhance your Chip Ahoy obsession? Here's one for you, I'm thinking of updating my profile. Tell me what you think.

But now for something that's not DTL and his obsession with Chip Ahoy topping him. Yesterday I had a medical check up. My doctor helpfully daily prints out the NYT online edition to supplement his magazines in the waiting room. We used to talk about the NYT crossword when I used to solve them before they became treasonous, so I already knew he reads the newspaper, but this extra effort to provide it to his clients surprised me. Mostly because it would be better for the NYT to simply subscribe to the print version since he thinks highly enough of the newspaper to go to the trouble of printing its online version. I would have thought someone smart as himself would have acknowledged by now its obvious bias. So I started out a little bit disappointed in this.

I do not understand why my primary physician, nor the specialists for that matter, engage me the way they do. Our visits are scheduled for 10 minutes and I would be happy to be out of there, but they most often run at least double sometimes triple that, usually because of their off-topic questioning. This visit the good doctor spoke orbiter dicta with cheerful glowing praise about Barney Frank. I thought in that moment, "Oh, here we go." Did I mention my primary physician is gay? It's irrelevant, actually, except for times like this. The way he flung the praise and hung his expressions on a question, I could tell he was fishing for a direct response. Attempting to be non-disputative, since I was eager to leave, I answered, yes, I do agree Barney Frank is very intelligent, especially quick when defending himself, but his involvement with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac and his tendency to deflect disturb me, and left it at that. The doctor shook his head no, looked down, and signaled the end of that topic by cramming all the words together "WellIdon'tknowanythingaboutallofthat." The end. Which suited me. This surprised me, though, there with the NYT printed out for his waiting room, and so, I believe, thinking himself sufficiently informed, how is it now, a fellow smart as that, reader of NYT, completer of exquisitely difficult puzzles, not know anything about Frank's involvement with CRA, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac? Curious, in'nit?

But let's not have DTL nor my doctor distract from Palladian's excellent exegesis. I'll reiterate since DTL changed the subject once again to himself. Palladian, you expressed my own feelings better than I could have myself. I can not compare what you wrote to Bastiat, or to Hayek, they were then and this is now, they were themselves and you are Palladian. Thank you once again for expressing all this so well, you stud.

Darcy said...

Great pic, Palladian!

And Paddy O., fantastic comments.

traditionalguy said...

Very interesting comments from some strong points of view. But why indeed did people vote for Obama, and now keep up their hopes up for the next unknown change to hit? Bush haters are excused since that vote was a revenge act for them. Blacks are excused since that vote was a personal dream fulfillment for them.The rest of the swing of 5% of the voters seemed to me to happen the week the Wall Street/ Banking world imploded. That was a change of everything stable we ever knew.The McCain reaction was his big pretence to be a fighter hero against something no one knew anything about how to handle. Obama kept his cool in face of the end of the Age of American world dominance that began in 1943. Somehow Obama's demeanor was truely the realistic attitude. Obama somehow always knew that a new age was dawning and he was ready to accept whatever that meant. But we must remember that Obama is ready to remake more than needs remaking. He is like a surgeon we have trusted to take out an appendex, and while we the patient are under he seems ready to take out our heart as well. Obama as a pure visioned ideologue wants to kill off what he plans to replace with purity as he sees it. Obama seems to be stalking his prey right now.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I didn't dump all my gay friends either, I simply chose not to comport with anybody unlovely. Got that, Stupid? I have no reason to put myself in the presence of undelightful people. I don't allow it. Having made that decision, nearly all my gay friends have dismissed themselves and my social circle had diminished considerably, and I'm altogether better off because of it

So....basically Chip says he doesn't like to hang out with assholes. What is the problem.

Great posting Palladian. You've summed up my feelings exactly. It is all about freedom and the right to choose our own lives. I suggest this book as recommended reading

Milton Friedman "Free to Choose" or better yet, watch the BS television seriesWe easily give up our freedoms at our peril because once you give up even the slightest thing, it opens the door for more takings, and we will never get our freedoms back without a struggle.

Darcy said...

Aww. Great pic as well, Chip! Nicely done on your response to the ugly smears.

Trooper York said...

Since Manny Rameriez is taking female hormones I am voting for him for Miss Domincan Republic.But I am not voting against anyone.

Or least I will convince Lem to vote for me.

elHombre said...

DTL wrote: "As I've said before, [Obama] seems to be a technocrat, not a liberal."

Having said it before, DTL should be embarrassed to repeat it. This is unmitigated nonsense.

I don't think I am alone in noticing that Palladian has given us an interesting and appealing articulation of his political observations and philosophy.

DTL and Zachary, in response, have given us only ad hominem attacks, including nasty gay rhetoric -- at least I think that's what it was -- and lame defenses of the Obama. (See "technocrat" reference, above.)

The only attempt at substance was Z's bullshit about his "empathy for those who need to be taken care of" as his rationale for Obotism.

Of course, Obama and Biden have been downright niggardly when it comes to expressing their "empathy" through personal generosity. Presumably, Zach's empathy, like theirs, is expressed by donating other people's money to the less fortunate. Admirable!

Today, Palladian punked the pinks
-- again!

Beth said...

Leave us all alone.

Don't build roads or bridges or levees or dams.

Don't train or pay firefighters or cops or soldiers or security forces and people who can read and translate transmissions from our enemies.

Shut down the CDC and leave me alone with my communicable diseases.

Leave me alone to build my liberatarian treehouse where the magical principles of no government make everything hunky-dory in an inexplicable way that we've never actually seen in action (except oh, in Somalia, maybe) but we're sure it works because we think it's manly and noble and it sounds strong self-reliant. Leave us alone!

Whatever.

1jpb said...

You yahoos w/ your abstract freedom, liberty, and leave us alone talk are quite pathetic. Your comments/feelings are arguably more emotionally and viscerally based than the motivations of the vast majority of BHO voters.

You'd have more credibility if you folks could adjust your screeds to acknowledge that our government is often run by and for corporations and special interests who are not seeking to limit regulations and get special treatment so that they can benefit America. You, could explain why it is good for the middle class to be stagnant or falling behind while corporate leaders and the powerful are increasing their ownership of America. And, you could attack the situation where today's R party has core planks and rhetoric that make it clear that freedom, liberty, and being left alone are rallying cries rather than implementable policies that are focused on average Americans.

And, y'all do enjoy crying those cries.

Your professional conservative leaders have told you that the government is focused on helping ingrates and that Marxism/socialism is around the corner so the ingrates can be helped even more. You are focused (to make sure you don't see where the real money is being doled out to the powerful) like lasers on these ingrates which you are told are the big problem. And, y'all learn that the best solution is to transfer gov responsibilities to the private sector. Send gov money (collected and borrowed) to the corporations ASAP!!! Otherwise we have Socialism/Marxism.

You folks are a joke.

AJ Lynch said...

Beth I know you were being sarcastic but there may be a money-making opportunity for liberterian treehouses.

Shoot we could probably sell 10-20 to the Althouse commenters. I'd buy one.

AJ Lynch said...

Actually 1JBP, it is safe to say about one-third of all govt spending is a wasteful boondoggle.

That means the govt wastes about $5,000 per year per person. Are you OK with that? I am not.

blogging cockroach said...

yes chip living as i do in harvard sq
even as a cockroach it s been hard
not to get bombarded with how awful
geo bush was 24 7 which is why i
became the chair roach of the cambridge
branch of cockroaches for hillary
well you see how far that got
anyway now it s been a few months
and obama hasn t done things too
much differently than g bush except
bankrupt the country faster and
take over banks and general motors
which should save us all except if
it doesn t but most people are too
worried abt their credit card debt
to think more than the next payment
ahead and what s going to happen with
the big inflation to pay for it all

etc

well it s all beyond me but i can t
help thinking things would have been
better if hillary got in if for no
other reason than she is a lot more
entertaining when she squirms which
any pres is going to do a lot of today

as to firefighters and roads n bridges etc
well i think we all agree we need those
the only problem is like here in mass
where the big dig cost more than
paving the old expressway with 3/8
inch of 14 k gold which some people
say would have been a much better idea
if you want to spread the wealth around

blogging cockroach said...

but i can t complain too much abt
the big dig leaking cause you know
how much i like wet basements

Beth said...

AJ -

It should be an easy start-up, too: we throw a bunch of wood and some nails in a box and sell it as a Do It Yourself project.

blogging cockroach said...

actually beth that s a massachusetts
bridge construction project

blogging cockroach said...

and it takes 6 years

Beth said...

blogging cockroach -

Our lives depend on the Army Corps of Engineers down here; if you like leaky basements, make New Orleans one of your tourist stops. We got leaks.

Except we don't have basements. Sorry, I forgot that.

John Kindley said...

This thought experiment, this scary summoning of things "we've never actually seen in action" is the too-typical liberal rejoinder to the libertarian perspective.

Ironically, and in contrast to the liberal self-image, the rejoinder is unduly conservative and hostile to idealism.

Don't liberals at least nominally support liberty? (There seems to be a strange resemblance between the words, liberal and liberty.)

The libertarian perspective doesn't demand the achievement of a stateless society overnight. In my case, it's more of a strong belief about the direction society should be moving. At each stage in that direction, we can gain experience about how it's working, about whether things really will go all to hell if we reduce government even further. And in my case at least, this belief about the direction we should be moving is grounded in the perception that governmental authority is in fact an illusion.

elHombre said...

Gee, Beth, do you think it might be a good idea to distinguish between those things that are appropriate and constitutional exercises of governmental power and those that simply further the goals of left-leaning dogmatists?

And consider that you may be doing a little projecting when you suggest that it is conservatives or libertarians who mindlessly oppose "cops or soldiers or security forces."

Otherwise, carry on with your dazzling display of secular progressive intellectualism.

Fen said...

Beth: Don't build roads or bridges or levees or dams. Don't train or pay firefighters or cops or soldiers or security forces and people who can read and translate transmissions from our enemies. Shut down the CDC and leave me alone with my communicable diseases..



Oh look. Our liberal arts english teacher thinks limited government = no government. And she even threw in a rhetorical fallacy to top it off. Anyone surprised?

AJ Lynch said...

Beth:

I bet Chip could come up with some good signs and maybe a theme for the treehouses.

Something like "Smile Or Else"...."Whiners Will Be Killed".

kathleen said...

whew! finishing this thread i'm all aquiver...Palladian and Chip A, you rock stars, you.

somefeller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

And she's part of the system that indoctrinates each new generation of voters.

Anyone surprised we ended up where we are now? Ask Beth, she might as well be the tour guide.

somefeller said...

Beth and 1jpb made their points quite well, and here is a link to a nice little internet parable that amplifies the point. Here is a day in the life of Joe Republican.

elHombre said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Don't liberals at least nominally support liberty? Yes, they do. With a simple difference:

The Right promotes Liberty at the expense of Equality.

The Left promotes Equality at the expense of Liberty.

blogging cockroach said...

ooh i d love to beth except the
cockroaches i ve met from new orleans
are just too big and nasty for me
but i hear the food s great down there
well around here nobody s life depends
on construction projects unless you
want to drive to the airport thru the
ted williams tunnel but you ve always
taken your life in your hands driving
to logan it s just that in the old days
it was some guy in a rusted buick
now it s chunks of the tunnel

AJ Lynch said...

Fen:

That is what the Republican party does not get. They fail to fight the good fight in the schools, especially the colleges, and in the MSM.

Christ - even that friggng Parade Magazine Sunday supplement has regular "news" stories that brainwash readers into thinking more and more govt is needed.

I don't know why the Republicans don't just publish their own Sunday supplement and pay the newspapers (especially in the swing states) to insert with the Sunday edition. Hell the papers need the money so they would do almost anything for money.

Fen said...

Here is a day in the life of Joe Republican..

How cute. I see MiniInfo is hard at work. Any more propaganda you'd like to float?

elHombre said...

By Jove, 1jpb, I believe you've got it!

"Speed up the recovery! Down with the corporations! Up with the government and the ingrates!"
There. Can't you just feel the economy healing itself?

jdeeripper said...

Zach tries, fails and is then beaten mercilessly for the attempt.

It's always the same with those two.

Trooper York said...

I voted for Sophia Loren but that was just a vote against the cannoli.

Although she is the hottest italian pastry.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Beth: Our lives depend on the Army Corps of Engineers down here; if you like leaky basements, make New Orleans one of your tourist stops. We got leaks. Except we don't have basements..

Well no wonder you're for Big Government. The rest of us are paying for you to live in a flood plain.

Trooper York said...

Zach's blog is a lot of fun. You should check it out. I am sure he would love some comments.

Fen said...

The Big Easy!

hdhouse said...

Palladian makes no sense and I'm sorry Ann picked him out of the dust heap that is republican throught to showcase him. He says he voted for McCain/Palin "out of spite" what??? as in Damn you Obama for being infinitely better or Dam you McCain for picking the world's featherweight in Palin?

I'll show you .....I'll just kick myself in the balls...yup that'll show you wailed Palladian.

You asshole republicans. You got nothin.

somefeller said...

"How cute. I see MiniInfo is hard at work. Any more propaganda you'd like to float?"

Actually, the Orwellian term is MiniTrue, not MiniInfo. That term is on my mind because I'm re-reading 1984. From time to time, I like to revisit the books I read in school to see how they affect me now.

But, the story does sting a bit, doesn't it? The ones that tell inconvenient truths tend to.

hdhouse said...

Palladian said...
You exhibit a child's understanding of the world, Zachary, coupled with a child's vocabulary and a child's temperament. But thank you for providing the impetus to write some things that have been on my mind. You're good for something."

Next time Palladian, when tempted to flush that vapid brain, count to three, hold your breath, and go stand in the corner and try not to think of the big white bear.

Fen said...

But by all means Beth, lets continue the discussion of the role of government.

Esp as the odds are you are currently posting from somewhere named after Heuy Long, while I'm posting from somewhere named after Robert Byrd.

madawaskan said...

OK just because it demands irreverence-

Dams? Really this whole comment thread was inspired by the plight of polar bears and global warming-Damn it! the environment and now Dems are for Dams?

Try telling the Salmon Warriors in Oregon and Washington that one.

Now let's see-

rooooooaaaads.

[Say it like David Spade on nitrous oxide]

Yes! Every time the military goes to places overseas like Hugo Chavez land our Ortegaville-

They say-

Daaaaaaammmm why can't America build roads like that?

Of course if you do want a road they admire you could say-

AUTOBAHN-but then we all know who did that and do you really want to go there!?

So sometimes road wise a happy "medium" is best.

Oh and yes! Dems are all about the warriors and paying them that's why the military polled 68% in favor of McCain even though they have a higher distribution of minorities than the rest of the population.

blogging cockroach said...

fen i hate to break it to you but you re paying
for the world s most expensive leaking tunnels
right here in boston which cost more than the
panama canal but at least no one died of yellow fever
and i m posting from the home of tip o neill

madawaskan said...

Good thing you got your levies avant le Democrat Deluge.

-we could have the same sympathy that Zachary displayed towards Palladian-

Don't like it?

Move.

ZPS words of wisdom-Natzche .

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Yah, but MiniInfo works better because it reminds the reader that our information brokers are in bed with the Left.

Like I said a few months back - if your stock broker withheld information about Enron from you, would you keep using him? And yet people still continue to use information brokers like CNN and the NYTs.

But, the story does sting a bit, doesn't it?.

No. I saw it was propaganda by the first paragraph. Needs to be more subtle.

Unless its intent is to provide read meat for the Left, which seems to be SOP these days.
Gotta keep them hating something while feeling hip & cool, right? Miss Cali's shelf life is only good for a few more days.

Fen said...

red meat, not read meat. ha

Dark Eden said...

Posts like Palladian's give me hope for the country. I have to think as it becomes obvious just how crazily radical Obama is even most Democrats will have enough.

Frodo Potter said...

hdhouse, Palladian not only made sense, he was brilliant—and I voted for Obama. (Sorry folks, I am conservative in a lot of ways, but Palin scared me.)

Paddy O., great comments as well. Having been in graduate school, I can tell you almost without fear of contradiction that most politically correct liberals *loathe* the working class. For all their Marxist claptrap, they have a deep distrust of, and discomfort even being around, the average working man or woman. It’s worth noting that at least one network commenter called the tea party participants “peasants” and they love to invoke images of pitchforks and torchlight parades.

DTL, I call bullcrap. I was in college and graduate school in the late 1980’s and EARLY 1990’s and there were a lot of gays and lesbians who were very out, not only in the ivory tower, but also in the workplace. So I am suspicious of your statement about how difficult it was to come out in the LATE 1990’s.

So, feeling as I do, why did I vote for Obama? I value competence and people who are not only smart, but are eager to learn and grow. McCain was, at one point, very competent, but appeared to be floundering. Then he picked Palin, who did not appear particularly competent and who had no intellectual curiosity. I will concede that she got a raw deal from the media, but that whole fiasco about not even knowing which books or magazines she read? Puh-leeze. Even Debbie Schlussel has no use for Palin—and that is saying something.

knox said...

Don't build roads or bridges or levees or dams. Don't train or pay firefighters or cops or soldiers or security forces and people who can read and translate transmissions from our enemies.

The same blackmail we're always faced with: "Cut taxes (i.e. limit government) too far and we'll cut your Emergency Services! your teachers!"

... God forbid they cut the jobs of the idling government workers we've all encountered ad nauseum throughout our lives. Or the bureaucrats and top-heavy adminstration who keep our teachers from doing their jobs well. Or the pensions that allow them all to retire 20 years earlier than the rest of us.



None of us wants no police, no bridges. We want liberty. And sanity.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Palladian, dearest, let me join the rest of the commenters in their praise. You are indeed in the side of reason.

Fen said...

God forbid they cut the jobs of the idling government workers we've all encountered ad nauseum throughout our lives.

Careful. Our dear friend not only lives in a taxpayer financed flood plain, she draws a salary from taxpayers while she indoctrinates their kids. She's anything but idle.

John Stodder said...

I too see being left alone as a virtue, but the difference is that I have empathy for those who need to be taken care of. ..

How pompous! How presumptuous! How vain!

Is Zach really so childish to think that the difference between the right and the left is the left has compassion and the right doesn't? Is he on the left because he thinks it's the morally superior ideology?

He's Janeane Garafolo! Her most famous quote, "I think voting Republican is a character flaw," is maybe the most anti-intellectual thing I've ever heard. Zach is right there with here.

If you assume your opponent is always acting in bad faith and, more to the point, if you assume your side is always acting in good faith, you are ripe for demagoguery to sway you, right off a cliff.

So while Zach might like saying that "being left alone as a virtue," in effect he's already enlisted in whatever future totalitarian regime plays on his heartstrings, whichever one can convince him that, unlike Those Guys, we have empathy.

hdhouse said...

Frodo Potter said...
hdhouse, Palladian not only made sense, he was brilliant—and I voted for Obama.."

Oh Christ. I have a two year old granddaugher. She speaks in complete sentences and watches ballet instead of Barney. That's brilliant.

Palladin can't carry her water and if brilliant is not defined as that...well..he has nuthin'.

ya'betcha.

Maxine Weiss said...

Take a look at the caliber of Zachary's friends on Facebook. The majority are all punks, twinkies and lightweights--nobody substantial or influential.

Clearly, Zachary failed to plumb the highest ranks of Orange County Society, and that's why he was banished to Long Beach.

Christopher: It would be a complete mistake for you to get involved with Zachary. He has zero social connections, isn't well-liked, and otherwise brings nothing of any value to the table.

There are far more prominent denizens with whom you should be ingratiating yourself !

Love,
Maxine

Fen said...

Beth, is there any part of your life thats not financed by the taxpayers?

Not to be cruel, but if you're going to lecture us about the need for Big Government, you should be transparent re any conflict of interest.

Fen said...

Yah, I just breeze past hdhouse's posts too. Its always the predictable bile.

Trooper York said...

"red meat, not read meat. ha"

Hey, the Professor is all about the meade meat, ha.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

There seems to be something kind of crazy going on here. Palladian's little rant has garnered so much praise from so many of you because he portrayed me as some sort of mindless Obama supporter who voted for him because, according to Palladian, I invested all my hopes and dreams in him, and now, because of people like me, we have one of the worst presidents (after 110 days) in history.

Well, the histrionics can end here. I've never once espoused a fanatical hope or wild passion for Obama. I've never said that he was "The One." Will saying this, repeatedly, convince any of you? Does it matter? Do I care? No.

I rooted for him wholeheartedly during the election, and I'm rooting for him now. Read into that all you want.

So, this crazed straw man that Palladian created, this awesome ridicule of me and my supposed ideology, doesn't even exist. You're all praising a smack down of something that isn't even here. You all are fucking nuts.

And unfortunately, I don't think it's productive for me or any of you to engage in such insanity, so I won't be here anymore for you to use as a phony prop to take out your ODS on.

If you think voting for someone, defending him at times, criticizing him at other times, and ultimately remaining skeptical of him should constitute the outburst that we saw from Palladian...you are seriously out of your mind.

Goodbye.

John Kindley said...

You mean Goodbye for now, right? Goodbye for this thread? You don't mean Goodbye to Althouse forever, right? That would make everyone feel very bad and guilty for being so unfair to you, and I know you wouldn't want that.

Donn said...

ZPS ain't leaving Althouse.....guaranteed!!!

chickenlittle said...

ZPS said : You all are fucking nuts.

That statement says much more about you than us I'm afraid. You disappoint me.

Buford Gooch said...

Apparently, according to DTL, there are only homophobes or homophiles. He leaves out us homodn't-give-a-shits.

NKVD said...

The commie bitch hdhouse wrote that his granddaughter can write in complete sentences. If true, have her teach you how to do that, you slimy motherfucker.

And while you're at it, check on the paternity of your children - I suspect they are not biologically yours.

HelenParr said...

I like both Palladian and Zachary Paul Sire.

I sincerely dislike when Althouse pits commenter against commenter like she did when she wanted to tape Titus. It feels abusive. Please stop fomenting the Althouse blog equivalent of sibling rivalry.

1jpb said...

Seconding that last comment by ZPS. I remember ZPS going after BHO plenty of times. I would guess that Palladian can too, although some of these comments were on ZPS's own blog, so I would assume Palladian missed those.

But, of course, that's not the point. The hyperventilaters don't care that ZPS has a record of repeatedly and harshly attacking and mocking BHO, just like they don't care that the R party is not the home of liberty, freedom, and leaving folks alone. They puff themselves up on fiction--comforting fiction. Some conservictims here are always ready to pounce with their abstract liberty, freedom, and leave us alone words. Words feel good. Meaningless abstractions divorced from reality are even better.

GOP for liberty!!!

N O for BHO

(because he's a Marxist, Black Liberationist who pals around w/ terrorists, makes us unsafe, and "hates America" [according to Rush].)

If this BHO-is-evil claptrap doesn't do it for you, and you can see through the GOP-for-Liberty stuff, there may be hope for you, otherwise carry on w/ the revolution (because you are living through circumstances like the founders of our country, our country must have you stand up in this time of danger...and don't forget that the GOP is for Liberty).

Any nine twelvers in the comments?

Any folks wear their hats the way Steele does?

BTW, isn't it sweet that Palin called Carrie Prejean. They both love liberty, like Palladian.

Beth said...

I don't indoctrinate my students, Fen. Would you, if you were a teacher? Perhaps you're projecting.

Beth said...

Ah, so what Palladian meant was "leave us alone, to some degree. But not completely." He was profoundly eloquent, as always, so you think he'd have managed to say that clearly.

mcg said...

Well, can we at least agree they ought to stay the hell out of our garage sales?

Beth said...

Fen, are you unaware of just how much of the US is protected by dams and levees financed by taxpayers? Also, you overlook why New Orleans sits where it does - think about it next time you fill up at the pump or by any of the many things that come through the port and up the Mississippi. Louisiana handles about 30 percent of the oil and energy we use in the States.

I've worked in private industry and at a state university. There's nothing to be ashamed about either.

Your assumption that I "indoctrinate" students reflects on you, not me.

mcg said...

(For the record I know Bush signed this stupid-ass law.)

Beth said...

Good post, Zach. Palladian is going after a "straw man" indeed, and Helen, I agree with you, too: the sibling rivalry thing stinks. I voted for a candidate, as did you. I'll criticize him and I'll praise him as warranted. Palladian and whoever else can beat their manly chests and go on as they wish.

Enough for me; when a vortex starts, I get out of its pull.

madawaskan said...

ZPS dishes out condescension for a long time here and because it's big media approved he gets to feign ignorance and/or innocence. Now when he gets bitch slapped by Palladian it's Ann's fault that he can't suddenly take the heat.

Or the resulting fall out is Ann's fault because she gave room for ZPS to defend himself.

btw-

ZPS I think is over 35 years old.

He isn't a fagile "flower" that needs protection.

He has a dedicated media working 24/7 to keep him comfortably numb.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AlphaLiberal said...

No. Quite happy with the results, thank you.

madawaskan said...

Cripes maybe he's only thirtyish but still the "mommy reflex" is gag worthy.

TMink said...

I am a conservative and I am happy to subsidise a dry New Orleans. It is a special place of rare and sundry pleasures. Not even 100 years of corrupt politicians has been able to ruin that fair city.

I will visit in late June because I love it so I do not care that the heat will be wilting. To beat it, I get to the quarter early as it wakes up.

Trey

hdhouse said...

NKVD said...
The commie bitch hdhouse...yada yada yada...."

wow..powerful stuff there. real shakespeare in the rough...that talent...those brains...that double digit IQ in orbit....

ya'betcha! that's one truth above all others...if 100 people walk by, someone always has an asshole...write right nkvd....?wow...glad i'm smart enough to be me and not dumb enough to be u....

ya'betcha ass...

rhhardin said...

Bob Herbert writes Joblessness is like a cancer in the society.

Employment is like a bad back.

Let us hope we choose wisely. This is why we have elections.

AJ Lynch said...

ZPS may feel like he is in the middle but he really wasn't the issue.

ZPS just struck the match that lit the fire under Palladian who then spoke up for many of us by saying ....enough enough with big govt (I paraphrase).

So ZPS, don't feel like you were attacked or ganged up on. You were peripheral to the whole shooting match.

elHombre said...

Beth wrote: "Perhaps you're projecting."

Beth also wrote: "[Palladian] was profoundly eloquent, as always, so you think he'd have managed to say that clearly."

Excellent, Beth! Now that you have the meaning of "projecting" down pat, it's time to work on "hyperbole."

jdeeripper said...

Zachary Paul Sire said...

There seems to be something kind of crazy going on here.

...Well, the histrionics can end here...Will saying this, repeatedly, convince any of you? Does it matter? Do I care? No.

...You're all praising a smack down of something that isn't even here. You all are fucking nuts.

And unfortunately, I don't think it's productive for me or any of you to engage in such insanity, so I won't be here anymore for you to use as a phony prop to take out your ODS on.

Goodbye
.

I leave you gentleman now and you will write it. You will interpret it. That's your right. But as I leave you I want you to know — just think how much you're going to be missing. You won't have ole Zachary Paul Sire to kick around any more, because, gentlemen, this is my last Althouse blog appearence and it will be one in which I have welcomed the opportunity to test wits with you.

blogging cockroach said...

poor z p s
he should realize it s not what you say but
how you say it that counts on the internet
some guy puts up a long passage from coriolanus
which has lots to talk abt if you re philosophically
which is b t w a damned hard word to type for a
cockroach inclined and want to do the origins of
locke not to mention hobbes etc
but that s too wiggy so instead we ll
closely parse someone s appreciation or lack
thereof for obama not to mention michelle s arms
and infer whether they have rightest tendencies
and need to be reeducated in siberia or
are they now or have they ever been a member
of the communist party so help you god
you know i like red meat as much as the next
cockroach but i prefer it when mom
drops a piece behind the stove

dick said...

Beth,

Are you saying that the entire state of Louisiana is located in a flood plain and that nowhere in the state is above sea level? That the city of NOLA could not be located in a higher location so that it would not be so prone to flooding?

Personally I don't care where you live. I do resent having to subsidize the city of NOLA every time it gets flooded when the residents cannot get themselves dug out in 3-4 years. From the flooding in the Iowa/North Dakota/South Dakota area about a year ago the people have already got most of the damage cleared up and functional and without the huge investment of the rest of the country. They got some assistance but most of it was done locally. Why can't NOLA do a bit more of that themselves and why do they go right back to the same flood-prone places every time it happens. I think that is why a lot of the country is a wee bit sick and tired of it all.

blogging cockroach said...

b t w dad and mom here at the house were in france
on election day and dad said he was happy to have an
excuse to vote for neither of the above and mom isn t
a citizen plus tommy
he s the boy whose computer i use
took an online political quiz tonight and he came out
exactly in the middle so i guess everyone here at the
house except maybe timmy the termite who s an
old fashioned tip o neill democrat
are pretty nonpartisan and is suspending
judgement except mom who thinks
obama is cute but dumb
don t tell anyone but she thinks
the same thing about dad

oh and b t w you all should really get sick
and tired of paying for the big dig here in
boston which cost about as much as general
motors but is even more useless unlike
the levees in louisiana which maybe could have
been saved by a boy with his finger in the dyke
but that joke s been used too much already

kwood said...

Voting IS STILL CRITICAL in all presidential elections. This past election demonstrates the importance of voting AGAINST even if you can't in good conscience vote FOR.

The only way to vote against someone like Obama was to vote for the next most winnable candidate.

Voting 3rd party or writing in 'Mickey Mouse' doesn't send a message to anyone. It just gets people like Obama elected.

Fen said...

Beth: I don't indoctrinate my students, Fen..



Based on experience, I'm of a mind that you do until proven otherwise. There was a time when I would have extend a prof the benefit of doubt. No longer.

Besides, even if its somehow true that you don't indoctrinate, you're part of the system that does. What your own Ward Churchill calls a "Little Eichmann"

Fen said...

Beth: I've worked in private industry and at a state university. There's nothing to be ashamed about either..
I never said you should be ashamed of it. I said that if you're going to lecture us about the need for Big Government, its only fair that you reveal your life is wholly subsidized by your fellow taxpayers.

blogging cockroach said...

oh let s not start in on beth
you know i was a college professor
in my last life yes i was
but i ll have you know i didn t
indoctrinate my students
i fucked them
but nobody thought of sexual
harassment in those days
they just thought i was a lech
and now i m a cockroach
there s an obvious lesson
in all this but it s no my place
to speculate on what kind of
invertebrate ward churchill will become
next time around so don t ask

Beth said...

Fen, could you please write my governor? He runs on the Anti-Big Government platform and he's worked for the government his entire adult life. Maybe you can talk some sense into him.

Beth said...

Based on experience, I'm of a mind that you do until proven otherwise.Well, you're an idiot for believing things you have no basis for. You have no idea of what I teach, how I teach, or how I treat my students.

Ward Churchill's colleagues tried very hard to get rid of him. I'm proud to be among that ilk.

Beth said...

Are you saying that the entire state of Louisiana is located in a flood plain and that nowhere in the state is above sea level?

No, Dick. Where do you get that idea?

That the city of NOLA could not be located in a higher location so that it would not be so prone to flooding?

It wouldn't be a port if it moved to higher ground, Dick. It's a port city, where the Mississippi meets the Gulf of Mexico. That's the point of a port. And ports bring in and take out goods. Our economy depends on ports.

The floods in the Midwest also received federal aid, Dick. And the levees in those flooded areas are federal levees, too.

Beth said...

gee, blogging cockroach, I'm not sleeping with my students OR indoctrinating them.

I have a beer with some now and then, but apparently, I'm missing out on a lot of fun.

Beth said...

just read your "finger in the dyke" comment, BC

I used to have a t-shirt:

New Orleans
Serviced by ferries
Protected by dykes

downtownlad said...

So Chip Ahoy's only response to me is yet more attacks against the gay community.

Talk about a closet case.

Anyway, you'd be hard pressed to find one post of mine that was about me, which is why you actually no almost nothing about my personal life (unless you went to my blog, where I did write stuff very sparingly). Most of my posts have pointed out anti-gay bigotry where I see it - like when Chip Ahoy said that he dumped all of his gay friends, because they didn't like President Bush.

And they usually make a broader point, which is that the Republican party is full of shit when they talk about liberty and freedom. They certainly don't believe in liberty and freedom for gay people. They want to micromanage people's lives by trying to stop a husband from taking his wife off of life support, for example. They propagate ignorance by denying global warming and teaching creationism in school.

I could go on and on and on. The Republican party had 8 years in the White House and they turned this country into a basket case.

And Palladian doesn't even have a job, so it is amusing to hear him whine about having to pay taxes. He's never paid a dime of Federal Income taxes in his life.

blogging cockroach said...

ah beth the best ones are the old ones
but i m glad you re not sleeping with
your grad students like i did with mine
especially if they wore pearls and a bob
and had nice legs especially nice legs
which shows you how long ago that was
and i m still paying the karmic price so
i m a well behaved cockroach i am
but i worry no matter how much i mind
my manners i might come back as gov
of louisiana which is a dreadful thought
that really keeps me on the straight n narrow
even if i help myself to some brioche
now and then

montana urban legend said...

What banal performance art.

Most misanthropes have the decency to be reclusive. I'm not sure what Palladian feels he'll accomplish by giving his misanthropy a drama queen's interpretation. But at least The Professor likes it - not that that counts for anything to anyone outside of Althouse.blogspot.com, of course.

One thing you can say for him, though, is that unlike Ted Kaczynski, we have no evidence that his anarchistic (he doesn't understand enough about politics to be properly called a "libertarian") and violent misanthropy have been expressed in ways that have visited physical destruction upon others. Of course, this way of damning him with faint praise relies on a generous assumption that he shouldn't necessarily be afforded.

But what's worth remembering is that statism is only encouraged when one is so absolutist in their ignorant dogma as to flirt with fatalism. By seeing progressive liberals as the bigger threat than Bush's incompetence and Cheney's authoritarianism, Palladian defers to (and implicitly apologizes for) the Republican failure to play a role in providing any check against statism.

Now, those of us with a brain understand that fears of Obama ushering in a rising Marxist-Leninist politics are exaggerated, paranoid and historically ignorant, but those arguments will go way over Palladian's fat head. (And yes, that head is quite fat. For someone so aesthetically inclined, he should be more humble, given his imminent shortcomings in this department). What he does have enough of a brain to understand - no matter how ill-informed it is - is that acting out with such generalized misanthropic contempt only strengthens his political adversaries.

Now, as for what the rest of the would-be/pretend conservatives here (although they would be more properly categorized as traditionalist authoritarians) might bother to understand is that incompetence is no virtue in a public servant. And someone who believes that chanting the mindless mantra of "less government" over and over again actually substitutes for a policy idea, needs to demand that his elected officials and public servants start by at least taking a pay-cut, working for free, or forgoing their perks. But none of the crowd in question has the integrity to figure that out.

As for this:

This is a mistake, a pathetic vestige of our dark days when we dropped on bended knee and surrendered ourselves to worldly kings and potentates.Such is the mindset of someone who must have the misfortune of claiming descent from an utterly different political culture than I did - one utterly tyrannical in nature. This would also go far in explaining the extraordinarily violent tone of the author's remarks. It is already obvious that his political ideas have a very shallow, if any, intellectual basis.

It speaks moreso to his own heritage than it does to anything else, and he should speak for himself. I certainly do not claim any share in this "common" history he ignorantly (and contemptuously) declares on behalf of all of us. But of course, I am just trying to be reasonable in making these distinctions and in no way make any pretension of competing with the ravings of a drama queen. They (and he) exist to serve their own purpose - and it's a pretty useless one, as he himself declares.

Beth said...

its only fair that you reveal your life is wholly subsidized by your fellow taxpayers.Fen, university budgets are not "wholly subsidized" by taxes. Our budget is more than 50 percent derived from tuition, fees and income the university generates from research and a sports/entertainment arena (yes, I do owe some of my success to Ice Capades. Thank you, fellow citizens, for attending Disney on Ice.)

Palladian said...

Woodsy the Owl, Zachary, Beth, downtownlad, 1jpb the fake ex-Republican et al enjoy their slavery. Maybe it's an S&M thing... Who knows. I wouldn't care except that I'm expected to pay for it.

I've said what I've said. It seems that a lot of people responded to the idea of freedom over slavery. Sad that none of our so-called liberals did. Oh well. We're better off without you.

downtownlad said...

Obama's approval rating is now at 68%. So yes, there are people second guessing their Presidential vote. And looks like most of them are McCain voters who are second guessing.

Only the wingnut Republicans still oppose Obama. The same wingnut Republicans who are clamoring for the Obama tax cuts to be repealed. . .

Synova said...

"He's Janeane Garafolo! Her most famous quote, "I think voting Republican is a character flaw," is maybe the most anti-intellectual thing I've ever heard. Zach is right there with here."

Her most famous and most anti-intellectual?

How about her new Tea Party protesters are racist gig, where she says, “If there are any tea baggers here, welcome, and white power,” she said to laughs...

So I'm torn. Is it stupider to think that anyone not giving Obama support is a racist? Or is it stupider to think that anyone who is making noise about the huge strides in government spending and imposition in our businesses and lives must be on the anarchist fringe of libertarianism? Or is it stupidest to think that the problem is a lack of empathy, which if we had, we'd certainly be pushing for the greatest government intervention possible?

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