December 5, 2008

"Maybe Palin had an anomalous pregnancy that showed far, far less than her previous ones..."

"... one that went from close to nothing to a serious bump in two weeks. Maybe the angle in the photo is misleading, and leaning toward us her pregnancy is concealed. Maybe her fifth labor really did take 26 hours combined via a speaking engagement (as amniotic fluid was leaking) and an 11 hour airplane flight (when a birth could have begun at any moment at extreme risk to the child), and maybe the bizarre and, to my mind, incredible stories she has told about the pregnancy and labor are true (there is still a chance they are). But if all these things are true, the Palin camp has had months to provide what would be instantly available records to dismiss all and every 'insane' blog speculation about this. And yet none came - on or off the record."

Andrew Sullivan is still on the case. Why?
Maybe I am crazy to even wonder. Or maybe we have witnessed one of the biggest frauds in American political history and the biggest failures among the American media in a very, very long time.

All I know is: the media refuses to ask and doesn't want to know and failed to demand medical records. All I know is that some journalists - like the Washington Post's Howie Kurtz - even tried to discredit the integrity of bloggers for asking. And yet in the campaign, the pregnancy and baby were offered at every moment as a reason to vote for Palin.
At every moment? Come on. The baby was used against her more than it was used for her. Much more. She was criticized for thinking she could properly attend to a "special needs" baby and take on a job with heavy responsibilities.
If the Bridge To Nowhere is worth checking out, why aren't the pregnancy's bizarre details?
Because the Bridge to Nowhere involved public, government actions, and the pregnancy was something happening inside her body as a result of purely private behavior.
Without the Down Syndrome pregnancy, Palin would not have had the rock-star appeal to the pro-life base that contributed to her selection.
Oh, yes, she would have.
She made it a political issue by holding up the baby at the convention.
All the candidates display their children at the convention, and the public normally keeps a respectful distance. We note that they are sweet and cute and we move on to matters of public concern.
I do not know the truth and have never claimed that Palin is lying. I have always stated that bringing a baby with Down Syndrome into the world is a noble and beautiful thing. I have simply asked, given the implausible, if possible, circumstances, that a person running for vice-president provide some basic evidence for a very strange and unclear story. For a photograph of Palin pregnant with one of her previous children, [follow the link]. Compare and contrast. Remember that, as a general rule, pregnant mothers show more with each successive pregnancy...
Oh, for God's sake, stop obsessing over that woman's belly!

190 comments:

Kirk Parker said...

"Maybe I am crazy..."

Wow, I see a glimmer of self-awareness beginning to assert itself.

Freeman Hunt said...

I'm almost six months pregnant on a second pregnancy, and I've had people ask when I'm going to start showing. Who knew that they might be wondering if it's all a farce to cover up someone else's pregnancy...

Sullivan is an idiot (since about 2003/4), and as he has zero experience in the arena of breeding, he should probably rest his fingers rather than speculate online.

chickenlittle said...

More power to you. Needle him as long as it takes to pop his insane obsession.

MadisonMan said...

Oh, for God's sake, stop obsessing over that woman's belly!

Stop obsessing over him obsessing over Palin! (Thumbs nose at chickenlittle!) If this infatuation of Sullivan's speeds his expungement -- if that's a word -- how is that a bad thing?

Congratulations Freeman! I hope it's a smooth and easy time for the next 3 months.

MadisonMan said...

His expungement from the blogosphere, I meant to add. Boy, I'm bad at completing thoughts today.

junyo said...

I came late to reading blogs, so I have to ask, was Sullivan ever lucid/worth reading? Because I see lots of right/center blogs quoting with disappointment from what seems like an endless stream of batshit crazy, and I'm trying to figure out why.

Donald Douglas said...

Indulging the Sully-Monster feeds his insane trutherism and his unearned credibility.

The guy's whack. I can't even believe Trig's birth is still an issue.

Big Mike said...

Sullivan doesn't take comments, does he? After stupid posts like this one, it's easy to understand.

Is he HIV positive? Is it affecting his brain cells?

Sigivald said...

Junyo: He was relatively lucid around 2001 and 2002, yes.

Once President Bush went openly against gay marriage, however, Sullivan went, to use the colloquial term, batshit crazy.

(Or maybe revealed longstanding batshittitude, hard to say.)

Diamondhead said...

I read his blog for eight years and had to stop in September. Exposing yourself to that kind of derangement without the ability to comment is masochistic.

Joan said...

Congratulations, Freeman! One of the best decisions my husband & I made was to have our children close together. Yes, it was tough having three little ones, but we managed, and now it's great having kids close enough in age to enjoy similar activities. My one piece of advice: if the new baby and the toddler both need something at the same time, help the toddler first if at all possible. The new baby won't be harmed by a few extra moments of fussiness, but the toddler will remember every single time you put the new baby first.

As for Silly Sully, this: Remember that, as a general rule, pregnant mothers show more with each successive pregnancy...
is manifestly untrue, especially for women as fit as Palin. My first pregnancy I was huge. My subsequent two pregnancies were of the "who stuffed a basketball up your shirt?" varieties.

Why doesn't Sullivan accept the letter from Palin's doctor? It's at least as good as what we got from the Obama campaign. Is Sullivan accusing Dr. Baldwin-Johnson of lying on Palin's behalf? That's a helluva charge. Baldwin-Johnson's letter should be enough to put this matter to rest.

Original Mike said...

I feel it coming ... I can't help myself ...

GET A LIFE, ANDREW!!!

LarsPorsena said...

junyo:

Sully had an epiphany on 9-11 and
went from professional wuss to screaming for jihadi blood. Around '03 or '04 he did another spin on a dime because of gay-marriage don't-ask-son't tell issues. Now instead of jihadi blood, he wants Cheney's.
Since I'm anonymous here, I will admit that I supported him via Paypal when he first started blogging.

Ron said...

Maybe it's been Sully's dream to be pregnant and possibly a heartbeat from the Presidency, and he's just jealous!

Original Mike said...

Sullivan was one of my daily stops years ago 2002/3. Then I drifted away, not because of content, but just because I was finding other blogs. When I came back a couple of years later, it was like aliens had abducted the old guy and propped up this loon in his place. I never knew why. Sigivald, you think that the transformation was coincident with Bush opposing gay marriage?

AJ Lynch said...

Your "sullivan" label should be changed to "lunatic fringe" or "whackadoodle blogger".

Maguro said...

Poor Andrew. Still green with womb-envy.

garage mahal said...

Conservatives all hate Sullivan mysteriously around and after 2003/2004. Wonder why. Hmmmm.

The Drill SGT said...

speaking of PDS, there is an Oregon Law Prof who blogs the same tripe.

I would have thought with a statement from her doctor, hospital stay, and contemporary reports from local TV reporters, that this story would die.

Remind me again why it even matters?

or why the family is off lits rule doesn't apply to Republicans?

halojones-fan said...

I like the way that Sarah Palin's medical records are more important than John Kerry's military service records.

peter hoh said...

I think Sullivan is off base with his speculation that Trig might not be Palin's baby, but Palin's story about her water breaking in Texas and then taking a couple long flights back to Alaska, without seeing a doctor, still seems rather odd.

When my wife was pregnant with our second, we were advised that labor and delivery is often shorter than the first time.

Roger J. said...

Ole sully has gone round the bend--and re Freeman's 12:17, thank god he doesnt breed. What a terrible thing to do the gene pool.

jayne_cobb said...

I stopped reading Sullivan about the time he got pissed at Glenn Reynolds for not caring about the whole "was Lincoln gay" debate.

I can't say if that's the exact moment he went crazy, but it was the last time I could take him seriously.

Keith said...

"Without the Down Syndrome pregnancy, Palin would not have had the rock-star appeal to the pro-life base that contributed to her selection."
"Oh, yes, she would have."

I wish I had a dime for every mention by Palin-philes of how her having had the courage to give birth to a Downs Syndrome child did indeed qualify her for the vice-presidency; I'd be taking my wife to the best restaurant in town tonight on my earnings. If people didn't notice how that was played up by "the base", you weren't paying attention.

m00se said...

Ah, plumbing the depths of Sully's OCD...

Lets not forget his obsession with Mitt's underwear during the primaries, and his "hell hath no fury" rejection of Bush after the post coital glow was gone after 2003.

Sully is overtaken by his passions, and most of the time it's just humorous - particularly when he refers to SSM and Rosa Parks in the same posting.

Ah, I could go on and on...

Palladian said...

"If people didn't notice how that was played up by "the base", you weren't paying attention."

Apparently Obama is black! Did anyone else hear that anywhere?

Alex said...

garage mahal said...

Conservatives all hate Sullivan mysteriously around and after 2003/2004. Wonder why. Hmmmm.
12:56 PM


Is it any wonder that liberals have the "deranged" reputation with comments like this?

chickenlittle said...

expungement from the blogosphere

euphemistic Titus! :)

Bob said...

Ann provides a Palin tease but then the Sully chaser. This thread may start fast but it will fade far from 200 posts.

Joe said...

My oldest daughter looked like she was about to give birth at five months. She isn't much bigger now at seven months.

I've known thin woman who didn't show until the very end. (I also know a rather large woman who's had nine babies and looks the same pregnant or not.)

FinFanJim said...

I love the quote: "the Palin camp has had months to provide what would be instantly available records to dismiss all and every 'insane' blog speculation about this."

Speaking if insane blog speculations, does anyone wonder if he (or for that matter any lefty blogger who agrees with his position) ever wrote the EXACT same quote, but substituted the word "Obama" for "Palin" and stated it in reference to a certain birth certificate?

peter hoh said...

Freeman, our kids are 2.5 years apart. I was close to another family whose kids are a bit closer to 2 years apart.

The key moment: the older one is able to stack blocks and make intricate towers just about the time that the younger one can crawl over and knock things over. And so it goes.

Thomas said...

It's not her belly he's obsessed with; it's her (icky) private parts.

Sullivan has a letter from her physician which says that Palin is the mother of Trig. That's not good enough for Sullivan--he wants the records. But if those were delivered, does anyone believe they'd satisfy him? I mean, how would he know they weren't faked after the fact? And we'd still be left with the "incredible stories" about her pregnancy.

As for the merits: as far as I can tell, Palin never publicly said that she was leaking amniotic fluid in Texas; her father said that, and she refrained from discussing it. The more likely story is that she had her bloody show, which can be a sign of labor but isn't always, and didn't want to go into those details with a reporter. I'm sure that Sullivan would like to discuss them in detail--they are at the heart of his identity, in some ways.

chickenlittle said...

@Freeman:

Congrats! Our kids are 18 months apart. My wife taught the older one language, and he then taught his younger sister. Such "everyday" things are marvelous to observe. Enjoy

Joe said...

Perhaps Sullivan is completely mystified by this whole "reproduction" thing. He's only recently concluded that children aren't purchased at hospitals, where they presumably were grown in test tubes, but are BORN there.

He's now wresting with the pregnancy thing. How long does it last and so forth. His biggest challenge, and surprise, will be when he works back to conception:

"The penis goes WHERE? Ahhhh!"

martha said...

Sullivan seems to think it is critical that he know every last detail of Sarah Palin's last pregnancy and delivery. Please someone (Atlantic editor?) tell him how creepy this obsession is.

chickenlittle said...

It's not her belly he's obsessed with; it's her (icky) private parts.

I recall a post of his where he compared the natural immunities of a vagina vs. a rectum towards infections and how unfair it was.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think Sullivan is off base with his speculation that Trig might not be Palin's baby, but Palin's story about her water breaking in Texas and then taking a couple long flights back to Alaska, without seeing a doctor, still seems rather odd.

Oh...bullshit. It isn't odd at all. Her water didn't "break" like Hoover Dam gushing in a flood across the floor.

She began leaking amniotic fluid, which is a very common thing to have happen and the fluid can leak for quite sometime without going into actual hard labor. Women can be in a pre hard labor situation for days. She had plenty of time to get back to her family, her doctor and her hospital.

Quite often the "breaking" has to be done by the doctor in the delivery process. Being in labor isn't that big of a deal for most women. I was in labor for over 12 hours. We played cribbage during the first 8 or so hours. The biggest inconvenience was that I was hungry, because they wouldn't let me eat.

You men need to quit taking biology lessons from soap operas and dramas.

Henry said...

Sullivan writes: I have simply asked, given the implausible, if possible, circumstances, that a person running for vice-president provide some basic evidence for a very strange and unclear story.

I agree. I am very concerned about Joe Biden's claim to have studied law.

BTW, does anyone remember the John Kerry botox rumors? How could those medical records not be important given that Kerry exhibited a stiff upper lip in public?

Charity said...

"Maybe I am crazy to even wonder."

Maybe? Maybe?? I just can't believe that he is still talking about this. This is just insane.

Can someone please tell Sullivan that the election is over and he can stop?

Dennis said...

The man is a lunatic, and anything else is redundant.

peter hoh said...

DBQ, you are correct. The story was that her amniotic fluid started to leak, not that her water had broken.

If, as Thomas says, the only source for the story is something her father said to a reporter, then yeah, I'm less inclined to take it seriously.

Ralph said...

as a result of purely private behavior.
You assume. I've heard Alaskans do it in the road (in the summer). In winter it's all done on snow machines.

Roger J. said...

re notes from Doctors--I thought that was the gold standard in presidential elections. Something else is required? who knew.

John Stodder said...

I wasn't aware til this thread that Palin's doctor had put out that letter. Sullivan never mentions it, does he? But in effect, he's calling the doctor a liar and a participant in a conspiracy to cover up a fact concerning a public official.

The doctor ought to sue Sullivan for libel. The doctor isn't a public figure, and here we have a prominent writer making a terrible accusation against him. The fact that he hasn't said, in words, "Dr. X is a liar" doesn't spare him from a libel allegation. Palin would lose such a lawsuit herself -- you can pretty much say anything you want about a governor. But the doctor might have a case.

Bob R said...

In a just society reading Andrew Sullivan's blog would be a crime equivalent to watching a dog fight and hosting his blog would be equivalent to training dogs to kill each other. The editors of the Atlantic should be in a cell beside Michael Vick. Baiting the mentally ill for sport is immoral.

chuck b. said...

Some pregnant women have done crazy shit before. They act like they're not pregnant, and throw the baby in the trash when it inevitably arrives. Recently a woman pretended she was pregnant to make man a marry her, then kidnapped a pregnant woman and cut the unborn baby out of her belly with a knife.

Sullivan believes Palin is someone capable of doing something devious for various reasons. He may be wrong and embarassing himself, but life is sometimes stranger than fiction. "You can't make this up" is one of his favorite taglines.

chuck b. said...

"He may be wrong"...

I mean he most likely is wrong. I think he's gone really over-board with this topic.

On other matters however, his blog has been excellent lately.

chuck b. said...

Also, ever watch the Maury show?

Shanna said...

Oh, for God's sake, stop obsessing over that woman's belly!

Andrew has proven solely with this issue, that he is beyond all reason and hope. The lady LOST. Get OVER it. Good God!

Nothing about the fluid leaking or the older lady having a down syndrome baby or not showing until 6 months...none of this is odd at all. He clearly knows NOTHING about pregnancy and his garbled brain is making up nonsense. Why won't he just shut up?

peter hoh said...

Stodder, I'm pretty sure that Sullivan mentioned the letter from the doctor, which came a few days before the election, after someone on her staff promised the media that she would be releasing her medical records.

FWIW, Sullivan was on Biden's case for not releasing his medical records, often mentioning them at the same time he was asking about Palin's.

IIRC, he was critical of Obama for releasing a statement from his doctor rather than releasing his medical records.

peter hoh said...

Shanna, I think that Sully should drop this issue, but I believe it's being driven for him by a number of Palin statements that just don't add up.

Some are minor, but they add up. Like her insistence that she both responded to McCain's offer without blinking and that she asked her daughters before she accepted the offer.

Could be that Palin draws a fuzzy line between hyperbole and reality, but that wouldn't be unusual for a politician, would it?

Freeman Hunt said...

Thank you for all the congratulations. Appreciate the advice too. :)

For those who weren't into blogs back then, Sullivan was great until he became wholly obsessed with the gay marriage issue for the 2004 election. It colored his positions on every other issue, including non-political issues, and was the only lens through which he was willing to view the world.

I remember when he flipped out over the violence in "Passion of the Christ." I emailed him to point out that Gibson was Catholic, and that "Passion of the Christ" was basically the stations of the cross on film. His only response was that Gibson, as a traditionalist who rejects Vatican II, isn't really Catholic. I think his visceral hatred of Gibson had more to do with this and this. (Remember, this was pre Gibson's bizarre outburst about Jews.)

John Stodder said...

Whether Sullivan mentioned the doc's letter or not, he's accusing him of lying. The doctor ought to ask for a retraction. Neither he nor Palin are required to release confidential medical records to disprove a wild charge. The doctor's integrity should normally be presumed, but Sullivan is attacking it.

Why is this coming up again? Because Sullivan sees, to his horror, stories appearing citing Saxby Chambliss crediting Palin with his victory. She's far from buried, which is the fate Sullivan thinks she deserves.

John Stodder said...

How wonderful for Freeman Hunt's children to have such a keen-eyed, intelligent and articulate Mom. Lucky kids.

peter hoh said...

John Stodder, Palin's doctor is a woman.

chickenlittle said...

Sullivan believes Palin is someone capable of doing something devious for various reasons.

Why obfuscate the matter Chuck B? Sullivan believes that Palin represents traditional values in this country--and such things as he arbitrarily labels "christianist".

chuck b. said...

I'm not obfuscating anything.

Shanna said...

Shanna, I think that Sully should drop this issue, but I believe it's being driven for him by a number of Palin statements that just don't add up.

Whether she has made such statements on political stuff is arguable, but has she made ANY statements that don’t make sense pregnancy wise? She had a baby. His name is Trig. All of this Sullivan nonsense is just that, nonsense.

It’s crazy and weird and creepy and it discredits him in more than one area. I’ll admit to being a fan of his way back in the beginning when the blogs of note were pretty much andrew and glenn and a few others. He went off the deep end somewhere and although he may occasionally put up an interesting post, it’s not worse wading through the crazy to get to it.

As for when he went crazy, it was somewhere along the gay stuff and torture, both of which I was sympathetic with his point of view, but he just went way off the deep end. Also, he had this whole anti-circumcision crusade that was truly bizarre.

Also, congrats Freeman! Fellow Arkansas girl, aren’t you?

Skyler said...

The real puzzle is why Anne still pays attention to this creep.

peter hoh said...

As Thomas pointed out above, the pregnancy-related statement that didn't make sense seems to have come from her father and not from Palin herself.

Palladian said...

"He may be wrong and embarassing himself, but life is sometimes stranger than fiction. "You can't make this up" is one of his favorite taglines."

No, it would be hard to conceive of a fictional old faggot as loathsome and repugnant as the real Andrew Sullivan.

Freeman Hunt said...

Thanks, John and Shanna.

Fellow Arkansas girl, aren’t you?

Yes, ma'am. In the northwest corner. And you?

I also don't know of any strange statements by Palin about her pregnancy. Anyone care to list?

chuck b. said...

"No, it would be hard to conceive of a fictional old faggot as loathsome and repugnant as the real Andrew Sullivan."

I don't think certain Althouse commenters would have a hard time conceiving of loathsome and repugnant old faggots whatsoever. :>

John Stodder said...

Okay. SHE should sue.

I clicked on the link to the doctor's letter then clicked straight back here. I didn't make note of the doctor's name. Pardon ME for making a sexist assumption.

Shanna said...

Hey Freeman! I'm in Central Arkansas.

I don't think Palin said anything about her pregnancy that was strange, but crazy people don't need reality, because the fake world is so much more fun.

Ann Althouse said...

Congratulations, Freeman.

Ann Althouse said...

I've liked Sullivan for a long, long time.

I remember when he was torn apart by gay rights advocates because he argued for gay marriage.

He writes a lot of interesting things, and his blog has very high traffic, which makes it important to push back when he's off.

Glen said...

Clearly Trig is the Antichrist. And Palin is the Antimadonna. All will become clear in a generation. The mark of the beast (moose) is upon us.

Original Mike said...

"You can't make this up" is one of his favorite taglines.

Ahh, but you can, and he does.

chuck b. said...

"He writes a lot of interesting things, and his blog has very high traffic, which makes it important to push back when he's off."

He obviously agrees with that philosophy, as he takes the same approach with Instapundit, rather harshly at times.

chuck b. said...

"You can't make this up" is one of his favorite taglines.

Ahh, but you can, and he does.



They all make it up, on both sides of every issue. E.g., Rush Limbaugh is tremendously good at it.

You really can't trust anyone. That's my take.

mdix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
knox said...

his visceral hatred of Gibson

Didn't someone once say they thought downtownlad was actually Sullivan? Wouldn't surprise me.

knox said...

the "visceral hatred" part is what I meant to highlight.

Freeman Hunt said...

Thanks, Ann.

Trooper York said...

Hey good luck with the new rug rat Freeman. I hope whatever you do you come with a cool name.

Plus if you give him a cool middle name like Hussien he can grow up to be President some day.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Sullivan has a juvenile obsession with female bodily function, as documented by James Taranto a while back with respect to menstrual blood.

dave in boca said...

Sullivan has been around the bend since he slithered from a self-proclaimed "Irish [from Ireland] Catholic gay father" to whatever he is now, an hysteric blubbering fixation-junkie who took a week off to get his mind back after his "What if...?" He mentioned afterwards that "my husband" whipped him back into shape, though perhaps that metaphor is a stretch.

The Atlantic stains itself every time this putrid clown puts out more sexist drivel on Palin [and on a lot of other subjects as well as sexism....]

LoafingOaf said...

Althouse: Your assertion that the pro-life base would've been as excited by Palin without the Down Syndrom pregnancy is obviously wrong. You need to tune into the Christian Right more if you don't know that was one of the main things they were excited about when they first jumped on the Palin bandwagon.

As for the controversies over Palin's pregnancy, Sullivan has decided this is a story he wants to find out the truth over. There's no reason anyone should take Palin's word about anything, given all of her lies.

You can call it obsessing on a woman's belly. (Which is odd from someone who has obsessed over mere blogger's breatsts in the past.) I'm not sure whether Sullivan is well-advised to stay on this story, but there are a lot of weird things about that pregnancy, and it was a central part of her VP candidacy. Why can't Palin just release the facts?

LoafingOaf said...

Remember that the first time you guys started attacking Sullivan for his blogging about Palin-related pregnancy issues, it turned out Palin's daughter was pregnant.

LoafingOaf said...

You realize what apologies you'll owe to Sullivan if it turns out Palin has been deceiving the public?

If it turns out she hasn't been, all Sullivan has to apologize for is being a blogger covering a story and asking for the facts.

LoafingOaf said...

Keith: I wish I had a dime for every mention by Palin-philes of how her having had the courage to give birth to a Downs Syndrome child did indeed qualify her for the vice-presidency; I'd be taking my wife to the best restaurant in town tonight on my earnings. If people didn't notice how that was played up by "the base", you weren't paying attention.

You're correct, Keith. It is bizarre that Althouse tries to re-write the very recent history of the Palin campaign. OR kmaybe she just was not paying attention to the Christian Right circles. IT wqas absolutely one of the central reasons they jumped on the Palin bandwagon. I heard 'em say so on their radio programs, but Althouse pretends otherwise.

LoafingOaf said...

And the reason Althouse feels the need to pretend the Down Syndrom baby wasn't the central reason the Christian Right backed Palin is because to admit otherwise would be to weaken her case against Sullivan's interest in the story as a blogger.

Joan said...

LoafingOaf, are you calling Palin's doctor a liar, too?

Here's the link to the doctor's letter again. Click and read. The letter quite clearly states that Palin had four full-term pregnancies and one that ended with Trig's delivery at 35 weeks. The letter is legit and was carried by all the major media outlets, although the coverage given it was minimal. This letter from Palin's doctor is equivalent to the letter produced by Obama's physician, which was accepted without qualms by the media and the rest of Obama's supporters.

You think Palin's doctor is in on some big cover-up? Go ahead and make the accusation. I'd love to see this ridiculous harping come to an end.

Lisa said...

This is just one more example of the bizarre sexism of Obama's so-called progressive supporters.

Here's another... Obama's speechwriter gropes a cardboard cut-out of Senator Clinton and people make excuses for it.

That's the change you voted for folks.. a government were overt sexism is perfectly acceptable.

sg said...

In his "Fourth Picture" post, Sullivan pleads that he's just a journalist, "asking questions:"

"I begged the McCain campaign by private email and in a private meeting to give me something - anything - to kill the story off. I promised to run any evidence that would blow this out of the water. That offer still stands. Please make me look like an idiot for asking these questions."

Why should we think he's not being disingenuous when, in a previous post that day, he referred to Gov. Palin as "the Wasilla wack-job," and "a bimbo hood ornament for horny old white male voters?"

Methadras said...

Little Miss Sullivan and his complete derangement are at an all time high now. Seriously, a 5150 at this point might be his only salvation.

Richard said...

Andrew Sullivan as an authority? What's a fag know about pregnancy, and why is he so obsessed with it. He's so mixed up.

Lisa said...

Loafing Oaf,

If I had a dime for every comment I read which disparaged Palin for having this child, accused her of neglecting him, or made wild accusations about his origins, I'ld be filthy rich.

Synova said...

Let's be fair.

The people *horrified* that Palin would run for VP when she had a Downs baby to care for would have been *equally* horrified if she had five perfectly healthy children. Those fussing about Trig the Downs baby would have been fussing just as much about Trig the perfect infant who needs his mother. Whatever the fussing, it would have been because certain people simply can't not stand the idea of anyone having five children. The true basis of the horror is that Palin has "too many" kids.

The people praising Palin for not aborting Trig would have been *equally* praising her for having five healthy children and for not bullying her daughter into an abortion. And even without her grandchild on the way, she'd still have exemplified a culture of life simply because she has "too many" children.

She'd still be a "Rock Star".

Michael_H said...

Carnak the Magnificent: (holds envelope to forehead) Antarctica and Vagina!

Ed McMahon: Antarctica and Vagina!

Carnak: (swivels head toward McMahon) Yes moosebreath, that's what I said, Antarctica and Vagina!

Ed McMahon: (quietly) Antarctica and Vagina.

Carnak: (rips envelope open and reads question) Name two places Andrew Sullivan's never been!

Audience laughs.

Ed McMahon: Heeeeyyyyyooooo!

Theo Boehm said...

Well, if we can believe the doctor, she may have technically had the baby, but Sullivan really should look into the accusations of witchcraft that critics have made.

Have they done DNA testing to see if Trig isn't the spawn of an unholy union with a familiar spirit? I'm sure with his journalistic abilities, Sullivan could unearth some devasting spectral evidence.

Next up from Sullivan: "Wonders of ye Invisible World."

Freeman Hunt said...

Thank you, Trooper. Already have the name. Middle name: Leone. First name: Ethan. As one who appreciates Westerns, I'm sure you can guess where we got each one. :)

Lex said...

I'm not sure Andrew likes girls...

LoafingOaf said...

From Andrew Sullivan: [T]he Dish went out and interviewed eight of the leading obstetricians in the country and laid out all the facts of the case and asked the experts for their take. While none would say that this pregnancy could not have happened, and none would comment on a case they hadn't examined personally, all of them said it was one of the strangest and unlikeliest series of events they had ever heard of and found Palin's decision to forgo medical help for more than a day after her water broke and risk the life of her unborn child on a long airplane trip to be reckless beyond measure.

Palin could clear this all up in two seconds, but she refuses to.

It's a bit tiring to hear people saying Sullivan isn't a breeder so he should just shut up. He consulted obstetricians.

He's just being a journalist and there's nothing wrong with that. The Palin worshippers have been telling us from the get-go that we're supposed to just accept Sarah Palin as the most amazing leader in the country, and pay no attention to the fact she is a complete ignoramous in every interview she gives, and most of the things she has hyped herself about have turned out to be BS. Palin could release the facts of her pregnancy at any time, but she does not.

Frankly, I wouldn't trust anything about Sarah Palin, given all her strange lies. And I for sure don't trust things when Michelle Malkin starts saying a story is not legit. Michelle Malkin, after all, is the dishonest blogger who tried to convince her readers that the puppy a marine threw in Iraq was fake with added sound effects. That's how interested she is in truth.

LoafingOaf said...

Michelle Malkin: These tinfoil hat-wearers are as obnoxious and unhinged as the 9/11 Truth cultists who insist that America engineered the jihadi attacks on itself.

Actually, unlike with 9/11 Truthers who can be refuted with the proven facts, all Malkin can do is try and ridicule people like Sullivan for wanting questions answers and facts confirmed. I'm not sure why Andrew Sullivan deserves to be ridiculed for being a journalist interested in getting to the bottom of things. I am sure why Michelle Malkin deserves to be ridiculed, though. She supports illegal and anti-American torture, she supports putting American citizens into concentration camps, and is a proven liar time and time again.

Synova said...

Again... Oaf.

Water broke?

And even if it had, if she wasn't in labor the decision to go home was not at all extreme. If it was a amniotic fluid leak or some other indication that the baby would be born soon, then going home is an ordinary decision.

Do you ever think, Oaf (alas, I doubt it), that demanding that people clear up the bad reporting done by others is a bit much?

Synova said...

Oaf... what proof would be good enough for you or Sully?

A video taken down the chute?

That can be faked too you know.

JohnAnnArbor said...

It's like the moon-landing deniers. Nothing will be enough.

LoafingOaf said...

I'm not sure why Freeman Hunt is free to make her wild speculations that votes found in the MN senate race are fake when she has no basis to make that accusation, but Andrew Sullivan is not allowed to stay with a story as a journalist when all the leading obstetricians he has consulted told him the facts surrounding Palin's pregnancy are the most bizarre they've ever come across.

LoafingOaf said...

Syn: Palin should release the medical records. Seems simple enough to me. As Sullivan pointed out in his post, Palin has claimed she already has (a lie), so what's holding her up?

chickenlittle said...

Freeman wrote: First name: Ethan.

I just watched The Searchers last night.

Freeman Hunt said...

I'm not sure why Freeman Hunt is free to make her wild speculations

Can't Nobody Hold Me Down.

Freeman Hunt said...

I just watched The Searchers last night.

Hooray!

John Stodder said...

"eight of the leading obstetricians"

This sounds like the old 4 out 5 doctors agree: Lucky Strikes are mild!

If this is such an overwhelming case, why isn't Sullivan naming even one of his obstetrician sources? Thus, why should we believe his characterization of who he spoke to? How does Sullivan even know who "eight of the leading obsetricians" are? Do you really believe he spoke to anyone?

I know: He'll claim that these prominent medical professionals are afraid that some asshole blogger with zero qualifications might call their findings into question, opening them to criticism and ridicule. Wonder where he'd get such an idea?

Theo Boehm said...

Sir Archy is falling down on his job of "Surveyor of Lunaticks" around here.

The current crop are not as generally bad as Luckyoldson, it's true. But, while I recall Archy saying something like, "There were no Lunaticks like the old Lunaticks," he really is missing an opportunity here.

Looks like Sullivan, Oaf, et al., could use a dose of the same Physick as the 9/11 Truthers and Moon Landing Deniers.

Synova said...

As Sullivan pointed out in his post, Palin has claimed she already has (a lie), so what's holding her up?

She released exactly what Obama released when it comes to medical information. Right? So what's the issue?

Sully wants to know just how many times she's been treated for a yeast infection?

Freeman Hunt said...

OT: Why is everyone expected to release their medical records? That strikes me as unseemly.

John Stodder said...

And the reason Althouse feels the need to pretend the Down Syndrom baby wasn't the central reason the Christian Right backed Palin

If you're going to play politics, Oaf, you need to listen more and blabber less.

While her decision to take the baby to term knowing he might be born with Down's syndrome was widely applauded, it is not the central reason for anything. Palin became popular because she's Reaganesque in her ability to sell the conservative case. She's unashamed and undaunted, and those people respond to that.

They've had eight years of Bush telling them he agrees with them -- and then insults them by saying he's going to be more compassionate than they are; and McCain saying he agrees with them with patent insincerity; and other leaders like Newt Gingrich and Tom Delay building a congressional majority on their backs, only to turn around and use it as a license to loot the treasury for earmarks and junkets.

Palin appeals to the side of conservatives who believe that what they believe built the country and made it great, and that what they believe doesn't need to be updated, modernized or made more compassionate. It just needs to be followed, because what they stand for are principles, not programs. If you're sure of your principles, you can be libeled by the likes of Andrew Sullivan, mocked by all the media, questioned off the record by GOP careerists and keep smiling. No one in public life has presented that confidence to conservatives in a long time.

It's like a mirror image of Obama. Liberals wait for the shock of the new, thinking that if what they believe can be "redefined" or "reinvented," they can win. Obama gave them that in 2008, and they fell in love, and their confidence was rewarded. Conservatives wait for someone who can strum the mystic chords of memory. Palin's got the knack like no one else. That's why they love her, and why her future is in her hands.

Michael said...

Where are the medical records?

Michael said...

If it's her kid, release the records.

Michael said...

Interview the attending doctor, staff and release the records.

chickenlittle said...

It took all day, but the sock-puppet-in-chief has arrived.

Michael said...

I can't help but notice most here is directed at Sullivan.

Why divert attention from the real question: Who's kid is that?

Michael said...

chickenshit: Have you seen the medical records?

Theo Boehm said...

I think any of the Palin Pregnancy Parasites who persist in shouting "liar," should put up a statement, naming the doctor, and stating unequivocally that she is lying in her summary of Palin's medical history.

We then might have this situation adjudicated in a court of law.

In the end, of course, any such thing will do no good for those with an idée fixe grafted upon their brains.

Conspiracy theories take on a life of their own, and some have lived for centuries. Poor Sarah Palin. She thought she was getting into politics. She has instead become a figure of fetishistic obsession, the explanation for whose alleged nearly supernatural actions are proof against reason or even common sense.

I think because of this I disagree slightly with John Stodder's usual superbly written analysis. Sarah Palin has, very surprisingly to me, aroused such fierce hatred and evoked such obvious insanity among frighteningly large numbers of people, that she has almost no chance of becoming a Reagan-like figure, able to inspire confidence or at least grudging respect. She will always be hated and feared by a large enough segment to limit her effectiveness and political future on a national level.

Her best course personally and for her family would be for to continue her career on a state level, keeping as low a profile as possible among non-Republicans, and to quietly fade away after her second term as governor, assuming she isn't destroyed somehow before that.

And, believe me, after seeing what was done—and continues to be done to her—I am convinced that there are forces who will rest at nothing other than her complete political destruction.

Michael said...

I challenge any of the Palin sycophants here to provide reliable, objective evidence it's Sarah Palin's kid.

You know...like the actual medical records, attending physician's under oath statement and testimony from any witnesses to the birth.

With that, this story disappears.

Without that, it's certainly relevant considering Palin's far right Christian base.

Talk is cheap.

Show us the evidence.

Ralph said...

Why is everyone expected to release their medical records?
Because JFK had Addison's disease and was given all sorts of drugs, including amphetamines, secretly while he was president.

Oaf, you're forgetting that Sullivan gave the "facts" to those OBGYNs. Her doctor OKed the plane trip home.

Michael said...

Theo, the "doctor" has said absolutely nothing to shore up Palin's account of the circumstances of Palin's miraculous travel, choice of hospital or delivery.

This is the only statement from the most important and knowledgeable source in this:

11/3/08
Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson:
“Governor Palin is in excellent health and has no known health problems that would interfere with her ability to carry out the duties and obligation of Vice President of the United States of America.”

That's it.

See any mention of the specifics relating to her latest delivery?

Now...try to imagine Michelle Obama saying she handled her pregnancy in the same manner as Palin, but...didn't see the need to release the medicals records or wanted her attending physician to say anything...and the wingnuts like yourself and others here not asking for answers and the medical release.

Such hypocrites...

Synova said...

Michael... prove that the moon isn't made of cheese.

Prove that Obama's children are his own. Michelle might have cheated. We *need* to know the parentage of those children without any doubt at all.

Right?

Because it's dreadfully important to know.

Right?

If anyone was demanding that Obama provide proof that his children were his own children they'd look and sound like morons.

Same-same.

John Stodder said...

If it's her kid, release the records.

It is not necessary for politicians to refute every lunatic. "Is that kid yours?" is a classic "when did you stop beating your wife?" type of question.

Should Hillary Clinton be required to cough up the medical records to prove Chelsea is not Vince Foster's kid?

This is just as absurd.

JohnAnnArbor said...

I can't imagine anyone questioning an irregularity of any kind in Mrs. Obama's pregnancies. It would be rightly out of line unless something was wildly out of the norm (wow, does the daughter have antennae like the Andorians in Star Trek?!?). And pregnancies are notorious for not being the same, one to the next, so the "norm" is a pretty wide band. It's not a lab experiment; it's biology.

Never mind that there would be immediate calls of racism and sexism, too, once anyone said a word. "Unseemly" and "rude" would cover it, but there's nothing liberals like better than hurling those accusations. Well, other than wild conspiracy-weaving about people that disagree with them politically, that is.

Synova said...

Hey Michael...

Why do the Obamas have two girls?

Did Michelle have tests and abortions if the baby was a boy?

I think this is really serious and it's shocking that no one ever asked them how they ended up with two girls. I think we should see Michelle's medical records, or at least Obama's medical records and proof of his sperm count.

Don't you?

John Stodder said...

11/3/08
Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson:
“Governor Palin is in excellent health and has no known health problems that would interfere with her ability to carry out the duties and obligation of Vice President of the United States of America.”

That's it.

See any mention of the specifics relating to her latest delivery?


Either you're misinformed or you're lying. Read this:
http://tinyurl.com/5ntqbp

As you'll see, her doctor said much more than the brief comment attributed to her. In the fourth paragraph, she addresses the circumstances of Palin's last pregnancy specifically and in detail. There are no weasel words. For Sullivan's allegation to be true--and not too surprisingly, yours--this doctor would have to be lying. Except none of you weasels will actually publish the words, "Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson is lying to cover up the truth about Trig Palin." Instead, you misrepresent what she wrote.

The left is disgusting. No wonder Obama is running away from you and disowning your support for him.

Michael said...

Stoddard: "Should Hillary Clinton be required to cough up the medical records to prove Chelsea is not Vince Foster's kid?"

A stupid and specious argument.

If Hillary was running are you actually saying she wouldn't release the records of Chelsea's birth, along with her medical records?

Get real.

Synova: "Why do the Obamas have two girls? Did Michelle have tests and abortions if the baby was a boy?"

Another stupid and thoroughly off-point argument.

You're saying you think that if Michelle was asked to release the records of her childrens births, along with her medical records...she wouldn't do it?

I challenge everybody again: Show me the records and the under oath statement from the attending physician.

This is not going away until she provides the evidence.

No matter how much the wingnut crowd wants it to.

Theo Boehm said...

Synova: The moon IS made of cheese! I saw it on Wallace and Grommit, and there they were, on the moon, walking around on all that cheese!

If you can't trust Wallace and Grommit, who you can you trust?

prose said...

I believe Obama's kids were trotted out at the convention also. I want a positive proof that the girls didn't get female circumcision, after all Obama has too many Muslim conenctions to ignore. We can't take his word that he is not a Muslim, can we? We want the proof. All ai am asking is for a proof.

Michael said...

Stoddard you link leads nowhere and I've yet to read specifics relating to the actual birth, only the lead up to it.

Why didn't she go to the hospital that specializes in her type of birth? Why come all the way back to Alaska? Why didn't so many people even realize she was pregnant?

LoafingOaf said...

John Stodder: While her decision to take the baby to term knowing he might be born with Down's syndrome was widely applauded, it is not the central reason for anything. Palin became popular because she's Reaganesque in her ability to sell the conservative case.

With all due respect, Althouse commenters are not gonna make me forget what I saw and heard just few months ago. The Religious Right, pro-life wing of the GOP - from Dobson on down - absolutely took the Down Syndrome baby as a central reason for pushing Palin. I heard them say so over and over and over again at the time. Please stop rewriting recent history. It was only a few months ago.

As far as being "Reaganesque" -- I was only able to find one single statement from Palin on the Iraq war before she joined McCain and stated robotically spewing the talking points, and it did sound like something Reagan would say...as well as something Barack Obama would say. Not something George W. Bush or John McCain would say. On a lot of issues, Obama is more Reaganesque than the McCain campaign was. But Reagan and Palin were both pro-life, and Palin demonstrated how pro-life she was with the baby Trig. And that was what it was all about She didn't abort the Down Syndrom baby. But don't ask too many questions about that Down Syndrome baby. Something's fishy but we have no right to pry. Of course we wouldn't have to pry if Palin just released the medical records, which would be easy enough. Oh, but asking for that makes one as bad as people who say 9/11 was an inside job! Say the people (including Palin) who accused Obama of being buddies with terrorists.

Calling Obama a pal of terrorists, as Palin did = perfectly acceptable. Asking for Palin to release her medical records = beyond the pale.

JohnAnnArbor said...

This is "nowhere"? Do you not know how to follow a link?

Michael said...

Mat-Su Regional has no record of Trig Palin being born there on the date in question. Period.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Ayers is Obama's pal. Ayers set bombs for political reasons.

QED.

Not too hard, this logic stuff.

Michael said...

Theo: "If you can't trust Wallace and Grommit, who you can you trust?"

Cute.

Got anything to back up Palin's story?

JohnAnnArbor said...

Interesting, Mike. So, you've been to Alaska and gone through all the obstetrician records at that hospital?

Or is your parrot talking again?

JohnAnnArbor said...

Oh, and Mike, this link--again--is "anything".

Would you like a fiber-optic time-lapse video of Trig's gestation?

Michael said...

The two-page letter Palin did release (instead of medical records) just hours before the actual election, is written by an Alaskan doctor who, no longer treating Palin, carefully defines herself as the “Palin family physician.”

Next.

LoafingOaf said...

stated=started in this part (typo correction): I was only able to find one statement from Palin on the Iraq war (before she joined McCain and started robotically spewing the talking points), and it did sound like something Reagan would say...as well as something Barack Obama would say. Not something George W. Bush or John McCain would say. On a lot of issues, Obama is more Reaganesque than the McCain campaign was.

---
Point being, on many of the issues most urgently facing our nation, Obama is more Reaganesque. Certainly on foreign policy. Go check the old Reagan debates from his campaigns. He's very similar to Obama. Of course, maybe that's just because Obama's foreign poicy represents a return to normalcy after 8 years of nuttiness.

But the pro-life position is the #1 issue for some folks on the religious right. They will pretend Sarah Palin was a fantastic candidate even though she didn't know jack squat about anything, and they'll pretend this because she didn't abort the Down Syndrom baby.

JohnAnnArbor said...

This kind of reminds me of the story I heard from some Democrats about the 1980 election. That bizarre story was that George Bush the Older flew to Iran secretly to make sure the hostages wouldn't be released pre-election. My favorite part was that he supposedly commandeered a Mach 3 SR-71 to do it (all the more to move secretly when sonic booms shatter glass the whole way). They were CONVINCED this happened, for real. Prove it didn't!

Michael said...

JohnAnnArbor : "Oh, and Mike, this link--again--is "anything".

(If you copy and paste the link that was provided: http://tinyurl.com/5ntqbp, tell me where it takes you.)

The two-page letter Palin did release (instead of medical records) just hours before the actual election, is written by an Alaskan doctor who, no longer treating Palin, carefully defines herself as the “Palin family physician.”

Next.

Synova said...

If Hillary was running are you actually saying she wouldn't release the records of Chelsea's birth, along with her medical records?

NONE of the candidates release their medical records. None of them do. Obama DID NOT. His doctor released a letter saying there was no medical reason he couldn't serve. That's ALL THEY DO. Hillary would NOT release her medical records just because some idiot started making accusations. I am most certainly saying that Hillary would not.

You're saying you think that if Michelle was asked to release the records of her childrens births, along with her medical records...she wouldn't do it?

Yes.

Are you saying she ought to?

If I took it on myself to make a whole bunch of stupid allegations and got enough idiots riled up about it and demanded, if she had nothing to hide and those are Obama's children, and not donor babies because he'd never get elected for anything at all if people knew he lost his balls to a gang of thugs in Indonesia as a child and has been on hormone replacements... you think that she SHOULD release her entire medical records?

That's stupid. No one should give in to that sort of blatant violation of their right to privacy. No one should be expected to.

The stupidity over Palin's pregnancy is just as unhinged. Sully and you and Oaf don't want to let it go because that would be admitting that you're unhinged wack-jobs.

You won't accept the doctor's statement about her pregnancy or anyone who knew she was pregnant, then you will accept nothing.

Not copies of the pages of her records applying to Trig's birth.

Not video down the chute of Trig being delivered.

Not DNA evidence showing maternity and paternity.

Any and all of it could be faked.

JohnAnnArbor said...

As expected, nothing will do it. No explanation of how Mikey got a list of kids born at a particular hospital. I'm guessing that's not public information, beyond actual birth certificates.

Go tell Buzz Aldrin to his face he didn't land on the moon. He'll reply in a manner you deserve.

Michael said...

Synova, you're just blathering on with the same bullshit talking points we can hear from Maulkin, Rush and others.

Palin's base is made up of far right Christians and if she's lying about the kid, she doesn't deserve shit.

Quit whining and put up the evidence of her actual medical records or accept the fact that Palin will be considered suspect.

Michael said...

JohnAnnArbor - Talk is cheap.

Show me the evidence or take a hike.

Synova said...

Yeah, if that letter describing Palin's medical history isn't proof enough nothing will be.

The pictures of Palin when she visited Kuwait show what are fairly clearly milk leaks below her breasts, she's not "sweating" anywhere else... but hormone treatment can induce lactation so does it matter?

Nothing could possibly prove that the whole thing isn't an extensive and clever deception.

Nothing will stop certain people from feeling superior to others for figuring it out.

(I'm sure Rosie felt pretty dang intellectual when she announced that fire doesn't melt steel, too.)

JohnAnnArbor said...

Excuse me? You're the one drooling with slavering hate and making extraordinary claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The very ordinary claim that Palin has five children (foreign to big-city liberals, I know, but normal elsewhere) is really a non-issue to normal people.

Michael said...

Anchorage Daily News

Medical records tell with great certainty who gave birth to whom, and what the circumstances were. Medical records clearly identify attending physicians. Doctors get into grave legal trouble for forging or altering them, so most are reluctant to take such steps.

From the moment Palin publicly announced her pregnancy at seven months, few people believed her.

Reporters and aids greeted Palin’s news with stunned silence. “You’re kidding,” said one incredulous reporter, staring at Palin’s flat abdomen. Most of the people attending Palin’s baby shower shortly after Trig’s birth—including her own friends and relatives-- had no idea that Palin had even been pregnant. “Unbelievable!”

LoafingOaf said...

You guys still go on with this idea that Barack Obama is the best friend, buddy, and pal to terrorists.

Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.

In fact, it is Obama who still wants to smoke out Usama bin Laden dead or alive,after the Republicans stopped caring. It was Obama who attacked Bush's Pakistan policy after it was an utter failure. Republicans ridiculed Obama during the Democratic Party primaries for focusing so much on the Pakistan problem.

Obama is obvious no pal of terrorists and I, for one, am tired of Republicans smearing him as one. It all likelihood, it will be Obama who actually brings masterminds of 9/11 to justice at long last.

LoafingOaf said...

Obama is obviously no pal of terrorists and I, for one, am tired of Republicans smearing him as one. In all likelihood, it will be Obama who actually brings masterminds of 9/11 to justice at long last.

Michael said...

JohnAnnArbor said..."You're the one drooling with slavering hate and making extraordinary claims."

"...slavering hate..."??

What are you talking about?

"...extraordinary claims..."??

Well, then disprove them or provide evidence.

Talk is cheap.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Ayers said--in an article coincidentally published on Sept. 11, 2001, in the NYTimes--that he wished he had set more bombs. So, he's Obama's buddy at that point, of long standing.

Unrepentant terrorist. His own quote: "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird."

Synova said...

Hey, Michael...

It's much *much* easier to prove something. Show the evidence that Trig is NOT her child, or admit that you've got nothing.

Never did.

Never will.

If he's not her kid, he came from somewhere. There are records and evidence.

Stop lying that you'll accept photocopies of medical records when you won't accept a letter from the doctor. If she can lie in a letter she can force some medical records just as easily.

Stop lying that you'll accept any sort of proof. It's a lie and you know it. Fat pictures don't count... she could have wore a fat-suit. A letter from her doctor doesn't count... the doctor lies. Her medical records won't count... they can be forged. She might be the only woman who *only* sweats below her breasts in desert heat... or her farce included hormone induced lactation.

She obviously stole someone else's Down's baby. Why aren't you or Sully checking for missing infants? How many could there be?

Michael said...

Synova: "Yeah, if that letter describing Palin's medical history isn't proof enough nothing will be."

Once agin...can you read?

The two-page letter Palin did release (instead of medical records) just hours before the actual election, is written by an Alaskan doctor who, no longer treating Palin, carefully defines herself as the “Palin family physician.”

Where are the medical records? Why not release them? Why not come clean and get it over with?

Lying perhaps?

LoafingOaf said...

The bottom line is, Sullivan has thoroughly justified why a journalist would still want to stay on the Palin pregnancy story. Palin could reslve these issues very easily but chooses not to.

And look at these bloggers who attack Andrew Sullivan. Althouse doesn't take them to task for this, but they spew a steady flow of homophobic attacks on him at such blogs as Ace of Spades. In the Althouse comment sections they are more restrained, just making note that he is not a "breeder." Then they go to their ultra-right blogs and delight in the hardcore homophobic attacks on Andrew Sullivan. For what? Because he's a journalist following up on a story that has yet to be resolved?

Michael said...

JohnAnnArbor said..."Ayers said--in an article coincidentally published on Sept. 11, 2001, in the NYTimes--that he wished he had set more bombs."

I don't think that's true.

I think you're taking what he said out of context and saying he said things he did not.

This is actually what he said: ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” I feel we didn’t do enough.”

And further qualifying: “I wish I had done more, but it doesn’t mean I wish we’d bombed more shit.”

Synova said...

Oaf... just admit that Ayers doesn't bother you.

Just say it.

"Ayers doesn't bother me. I'd send my kid to the school he teaches at and not worry a minute, not even if Ayers was her adviser."

It's not like a great many people wouldn't agree with you. The man is accepted in his neighborhood and gainfully employed teaching young people.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Dude, you're like the people who claim the moon landings have yet to be proven. You have your story, you like it because it reflects badly on someone you hate, and you're sticking with it. It's an old, sad story of obsession. Andy's a pro at it.

LoafingOaf said...

Oh what's the point around here. These commenters will still try and claim Palin conducted herself as a marvelous VP candidatewith brilliant expertise in her Katie Couric interview. The fact that Althouse had to try and pretend the Down Syndrome baby was not a central reason the pro-life Religious Right fell in love with Palin shows how illegit her "push back" is. She felt the need to rewrite history in her push back instead of addressing the substantice issues that remained unresolved.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Oh, yeah, that's comforting.

He should be in a cell next to the Unabomber. (

LoafingOaf said...

SARAH PALIN: Release the medical records. Simple enough request.

JohnAnnArbor said...

That's right, Oaf. Walk away, certain in your superior knowledge, shaking your head at those who just can't see things as CLEARLY as you!

It's like Tom Cruise trying to explain mental issues to a normal person.

Synova said...

Michael, what is the practical difference between... I'm not sorry we set bombs... I don't feel we did enough; and... I'm not sorry we set bombs... we should have set more.

Does he then go on to talk about all the *other* things they did to get attention that they could have done more of?

What other things did the Weathermen do?

JohnAnnArbor said...

Maybe held bake sales to buy parts for bombs?

chickenlittle said...

instead of addressing the substantice issues that remained unresolved.

Do you hunger for something Loaf?

LoafingOaf said...

If Althouse were to admit that the Down Syndrome baby was a big deal to the pro-life Religous Right wing of the GOP that pushed her on McCain, she'd have to admit that issues surrounding that pregnancy are legit matters for journalists to follow up on.

Syn: The American people rejected the smear that Obama digs terrorism. He was a small little child when Ayers committed his crimes and Obama has unambiguously condemned those crimes. There's not a pro-terrorist bone in Obama's body and you know it.

LoafingOaf said...

substantice issues that remained unresolved = substantive issues that remain unresolved.

Synova said...

Oaf... you don't trust a doctor's letter you won't trust her medical records.

Simple.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Oh, no one's saying he's PRO-terrorist. Just that he's more tolerant than we'd like of them. More "understanding," you might say.

LoafingOaf said...

John: My claims are simple:

1. Obama is not a terrorist, not a fan of terrorists, not a pal of terrorists, and Palin tried to smear him as otherwise.

2. Palin could resolve the issues surrounding her bizarre pregnancy in 2 seconds but chooses not to. Andrew Sullivan is simply trying to get to the bottom of things as a journalist.

Ralph said...

She obviously stole someone else's Down's baby
So why would she do that? For pro-life votes? This argument is crazy. I'm surprised people took her word Trig has Down Syndrome. She obviously spread that rumor for sympathy votes.

jdeeripper said...

Andy has womb envy.

He wants to have sex with men.

He wants to marry a man.

He wants to give bir... wwwaaaaaaaaaaa it's not fair, not fair, not fair, not fair, not fair................

Freeman Hunt said...

I don't know that I'm "Religious Right," whatever that it, but ardently pro-life, extremely conservative, sure.

That Palin has a child with Down Syndrome is not what got me excited about her. Stodder nailed it. It's the unapologetic conservatism. Same reason all of my politically similar friends like her as well.

And no, I don't think she should release medical records. I don't think any of the candidates should. Seems like a pretty outrageous violation of privacy to me. These letters from doctors seem fine to me.

Also, she need not disprove a rumor that lacks any evidence. The normal assumption is that her child is hers. Unless someone can produce evidence to the contrary, that assumption stands.

LoafingOaf said...

John: Sarah Palin said Obama was a pal of terrorists to the cheers of her right wing rally supporters. Instead of smearing Obama as a pal of terrorists, I think she should've spent some time educating herself on the issues in the campaign, as she exposed herself as a complete ignoramous in all of her interviews.

Freeman Hunt said...

Oaf, you do realize that you can despise Palin as a political candidate without delving into conspiracy theories about the parentage of her children, don't you?

LoafingOaf said...

Palin's hiding something in those medical records. Otherwise she'd release 'em. Would be simple enough. She's already lied and claimed she has.

We'll find out what's up sooner or later, thanks to pesky journalists like Sullivan who won't be "pushed back".

Freeman Hunt said...

This call to "Just release the records," is ill-conceived. Should public figures willingly cede privacy to any areas of their lives where rumors crop up? I think not. Palin's medical records are none of your business. You have no claim to them.

Freeman Hunt said...

Palin's hiding something in those medical records. Otherwise she'd release 'em.

No. I wouldn't release mine, and I have nothing to hide in them. Maybe she doesn't think that Sulli and Co. are entitled to a peek at her gynecological information. I'm inclined to agree.

Synova said...

Oaf... you brought up Ayers.

And as far as Obama being pro-terrorist goes... it depends on what you mean by that.

I think that Obama, like others of his social class, find people like Ayers morally superior, thoughtful, idealistic people to admire. The indiscretions of youthful ardor are unalarming... the ardor is to be admired. I doubt that many in Obama's social class are at all concerned by the fact that Ayers continues to pursue his cause, unashamed and unrepentant, and certainly as dedicated to the same ideas today as before.

Those ideas are relevant, even if no bombs have been set since Obama was a small child. The ideas about education are relevant. The ideas about government are relevant.

Rather than disavowing knowing anything about this guy who just happens to live in his neighborhood, I'd much rather know that Obama was aware of his surroundings and had paid attention to what those around him were preaching.

He never heard a sermon at Church either.

Theo Boehm said...

You know, I am no particular fan of Sarah Palin politically. And I think, if everything works for the best, that Obama may, indeed, prove more "Reaganesque" than any Republican on the current landscape, all to the country's good.

But I cannot understand the obvious insanity surrounding Palin. This pregnancy nonsense belongs in Bedlam.

Conspiracy theorists can always invent more and more convoluted and elaborate interpretations to support their fevered claims. I hardly need say this. We all have run up against such thinking. The problem with conspiracy theories such as the Palin pregnancy one is that they involve too many people.

It is difficult enough to keep a secret among a few highly-motivated people. There would have to have been too many people with varying motives in on Palin fix to have kept it a secret for long.

Any normal adult with experience in the real world of business, work, and perhaps even, or especially even, government, would know this. The people who insist on conspiracy theories, almost of necessity, have limited real knowledge of the world.

I think it is pointless to bring up the question of mental problems or deficiencies among commenters. I assume that my interlocutors are reasonable people, and that disagreements, when they arise, can be the spice of life, and that we can all learn from debate and discussion.

But the nutcases do try that assumption severely. Here I am, along with Synova and others, arguing with those who hold to opinions that are not worthy of a second of my time, except that a respected magazine published online versions of them by a well-known writer.

There are some things that are just mysteries. Sarah Palin's pregnancy isn't one of them, but why people believe the things they do about it certainly is.

Another one is why I'm sitting here in the middle of the night. But I think I think I'm just about to become more enlightened by turning the computer off.

Good evening to John Stodder, Freeman, Synova, JohnAnnArbor, and all the other normal people aroud here.

As for the rest, well, what can I say?

chickenlittle said...

Theo said: ...except that a respected magazine published online versions of them by a well-known writer.

I hereby resolve to always include mention of The Atlantic if ever should write the words "Andrew Sullivan."

John Stodder said...

Michael, you're even shaming the old Michael. The Michael of...December 3rd. At least way back when, two days ago, you had some attachment to reality.

If Hillary was running are you actually saying she wouldn't release the records of Chelsea's birth, along with her medical records?

Get real.


Yep, that Hillary. A paragon of transparency.

This is not going away until she provides the evidence.

No matter how much the wingnut crowd wants it to.


Hilarious. You think only "wingnuts" believe Sarah Palin is the mother of her son.

Actually, if I was working for Palin, I'd be thrilled that clowns like you are continuing to beat this drum. I think a fair estimate of "who looks more like a wingnut" would surely point overwhelmingly in your direction.

You're a conspiracy theorist. Richard Hofstader wrote a book about people like you.

Why didn't she go to the hospital that specializes in her type of birth? Why come all the way back to Alaska? Why didn't so many people even realize she was pregnant?

What are you talking about? "The hospital that specializes in her type of birth?" Don't most hospitals have a section that specializes in...birth? A mother-to-be chooses a hospital based primarily on where her preferred OB-GYN has privileges. I assume for Sarah Palin, her OB-GYN practices somewhere in Alaska, since that's where she's lived almost her entire life.

The two-page letter Palin did release (instead of medical records) just hours before the actual election, is written by an Alaskan doctor who, no longer treating Palin, carefully defines herself as the “Palin family physician.”

First sentence of letter: "I have been asked by Governor Sarah Palin to provide information regarding her medical history and care. I am writing this letter as Governor Palin's personal family physician."

Oh...oh...I get it. You've never heard the term "family physician." It's a term of the medical trade. You can read more about it here: http://tinyurl.com/mnbcl -- the website of the American Academy of Family Physicians. As opposed to, say, brain surgeons, or urologists. What used to be called "general practitioners."

My God you're dumb. Do you post here because Daily Kos kicked you off for persistent lameness?

John Stodder said...

Sarah Palin has, very surprisingly to me, aroused such fierce hatred and evoked such obvious insanity among frighteningly large numbers of people, that she has almost no chance of becoming a Reagan-like figure, able to inspire confidence or at least grudging respect. She will always be hated and feared by a large enough segment to limit her effectiveness and political future on a national level.

Theo...I suspect you're younger than me. My recollection from the 60s and 70s was that Reagan was both disrespected and feared by the left and most Democrats generally, literally until the last week of the 1980 election when his debate performance moved the needle dramatically. I thought Carter was worthless, but I voted for him over Reagan. As a liberal (more then than now), I couldn't imagine voting for a 'warmongering, simplistic panderer to the religious right.' I highly respected Reagan's rhetorical skills. I remember thinking his address to the 1976 GOP convention was brilliant speechmaking. But then he spent the next few years fighting the Panama Canal treaty which, to me, made him look about 100 years out of date -- all his "we paid for it, we ought to keep it" stuff struck me as almost childish.

And most of my friends and family hated Reagan way more than me. Go back and read Doonesbury from that period to get a flavor of what low esteem in which he was held.

The point being, as was the case with Reagan, Sarah Palin has nowhere to go but up, and she could rise quite rapidly. From her platform in Alaska, she could develop her profile on one or two key issues that will force at least some of her detractors to give her grudging respect. Away from the desperate McCain campaign, she'll have a chance to appear less partisan, less slash-and-burn. Anyway, among the Republican base, you are known by your enemies. Nixon got a lot of mileage out of being hated by the liberals and the media, even though he was not a right-winger. The right gets elite respect through its intellectuals, but it gets electoral wins by building upon a loyal base. Palin's got one and no one else in the GOP does.

Skyler said...

Stodder, that was probably one of the most intelligent things written about Palin I've seen anywhere.

peter hoh said...

John Ann Arbor @12:09

Actually, at one point, I heard a talk radio guy suggest that we weren't going to see medical records from Michele Obama or Jill Biden because they would probably reveal that they had had abortions.

hdhouse said...

Oh for goodness sake, ENOUGH about Ms. Palin. Please. We beg you.

I'd almost rather hear about a hollywood star catfight.

Palladian said...

Ahh, I knew PinchingLoaf would show up! The terrifying lure of Sarah Palin's pussy is too strong for a mere mortal like him to resist!

The terrible mysteries of her womb frighten you, don't they Loafy? You want answers!

Hey, where are YOUR medical records? Are you trying to hide something? There has to be something more to explain your behavior than a simple fear of women. That doesn't seem enough to have caused you to turn into the world's biggest human douchebag. Did you have a catastrophic anal-cranial inversion? What are you hiding in those records, Loafy? Guilty until proven innocent I say! Release the records!

Pundit Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pundit Joe said...

Oh well, I’m sticking by the rumor that Andrew is the result of a forbidden love between Bigfoot and Elvis.

Poor excessively hairy and big footed, but vocally gifted Andrew… The press doesn’t wonder if Palin’s child is hers or not any more than they wonder about your “alleged” interspecies ancestry because these are crazy ideas. They are chainsaw and kitten juggling crazy.

On the plus side - Andrew’s odd obsession provides me with much entertainment and as long as he is around, there will always be someone goofier than myself. Andrew, you are number one in my book! Heh heh.

Crimso said...

"Sarah Palin said Obama was a pal of terrorists to the cheers of her right wing rally supporters."

Perhaps you can point to the lie in what she said. Or do you think Ayers was a "freedom fighter?"

I guess everyone so deeply concerned over Palin's fake pregnancy is also deeply concerned over Obama not being a U.S. citizen.

The swipe at Obama sound crazy? Then just maybe you're becoming teachable...

Michael_H said...

I am a Hair Troofer and I demand to see Joe Biden's medical records. That isn't his hair. Period.

Michael, just show me Joe Biden's medical records. I demand that you do. Right now, dammit!

It's not Biden's hair; it was donated by Teddy Kennedy. That whole brain tumor nonsense was just a cover up so Teddy could be out of the public eye while his scalp healed where the Biden 'family doctor' harvested hair for implantation into Biden's scalp.

Seriously. have you ever seen a photo of je Biden standing next to a barber? NOOOOO!!!!! Because Biden doesn't use a barber; he just gets shorter implants periodically, and always from Teddy Kennedy!

Michael, I demand that you produce Joe Biden's medical records. Or just shut up forever. One or the other, it's your choice.