November 4, 2008

Live-blog the vote.

9:04: It's a warm, sunny day, here in Madison, Wisconsin. A good day to walk to work and stop by the church that is my polling place. Will the lines be long? Will there be any adventures? I'll let you know it due time. Meanwhile, tell us about voting where you are.

10:43: I'm in my office now, having spent 43 minutes inside the church that is my polling place. I spent some of the time reading part of the assignment for today's Religion and the Constitution class. The line was calm and quiet, composed mostly of white people, disproportionately male, though directly in front of me was a young black woman, a student, who seemed to know every other black person who came through the waiting area. She was snapping flash photographs of her friends, one of whom had gotten to the front super-quick by the clever expedient of not being registered. In Madison, you can register the day you vote, and normally going through the line where you also register would slow you down, but there's been such an active effort to get everyone registered in advance, that the same-day registering folks have a shorter wait. At least, that was the case at 9:15 at the First Congregational Church of Madison.

10:51: So now you can abandon all efforts to influence me, because I've voted. You may wonder, was everyone voting at the First Congregational Church of Madison voting for Barack Obama. The answer is no. I saw a young man wearing a McCain/Palin button. He was the only person I saw wearing a button. I heard absolutely no discussion of the election inside the church. Not so much as a single voicing of the 3 syllables Obama.

351 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 351 of 351
mariner said...

vbspurs:

Thank you for the link to "Toast".

It's a great article which I believe is right on the money.

We'll find out soon.

Roberto said...

Simon, why do you always try tom come across as some kind of intellectual?

When you say; "...the United States are a federal republic; we use democratic processes for the selection of some parts of the federal apparatus and other methods for selecting other parts..."

You're technically correct, but you sure don't hear Bush or any other Republican parse their words when describing what we supposedly set out to establish in Iraq...did they?

She me a quote where Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Kristol or others described our invasion of Iraq in terms of establishing a "federal republic."

I hope to God you're not an attorney.

Brian Doyle said...

Palin on whether she voted for Ted Stevens:

I am also exercising my right to privacy and I don't have to tell anybody who I vote for. Nobody does, and that's really cool about America also.

God I love her spunk.

Roberto said...

Sorry about the typos...oh, well.

Simon said...

FLS, that's true, but is there any precedent for the kind and degree of equal protection scrutiny applied by the court in the Bush per curiam, as you see it? I really find that opinion to be quite thin gruel.

I should add, re my previous comment, that I do think that the optimal arrangement is that states hold votes to select presidential electors; using democracy on that level is the most efficient way to order that matter. But the upshot is necessarily that restrictions and regulations are permissible and need only satisfy equal protection requirements, as FLS points out.

Simon said...

Doyle, sadly, I have no idea if your 1:17 PM is parody or verbatim!

Brian Doyle said...

The quote is real. My appreciation for her spunk is sarcastic.

Donn said...

Michael said......

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

Dody Jane said...

I live in the Blue-est county in NC, in the blue-est precinct in NC. I voted Saturday. Waited for 1 3/4 hours in a line of FOR SURE Obama voters. So, today - on my way to work, I swung by my polling place, just to check it out. Very sparse. Quick, maybe 15 minute wait. I then swung by my former polling place two blocks away (2nd blue-est precinct in state, Obama banners swaying from antediluvian oak trees, Obama signs in almost every yard, polling place is big Baptist church HUGE-O-RAMA parking lot) barely any cars parked there, a few straggling people wandering in. NO LINES out the door as per previous elections.

I listened to a popular left of center morning talk show while driving to work (Brad and Brit). Many callers calling in to report similar scenes of quick lines, one lady from Raleigh said there was a line when she entered at the beginning of voting (7:30) but the line was GONE when she finished.

Then, a guy from Gibsonville called (more Republican, rural, kind of). He had to wait one hour.

My theory: Most people who adore Obama have voted. The enthusiastic ones have voted FOR SURE . 64% voted in 2004. So far we are over 50% in NC with early voting. They think it may hit 70%. That means 20% left. I think my district, county will be HUGE Obama. Mega, wompa, gargantuan… but maybe the remaining non-voters will be McCain voters. Who knows?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I guess I didn't know that the right to vote wasn't actually a "right" in a Democracy. My mistake!

Yes. It is your mistake since our form of government is not a democracy but is a representative republic. Did you skip 8th grade civics class?

Brian Doyle said...

Yes. It is your mistake since our form of government is not a democracy but is a representative republic.

So when John McCain talks about a "League of Democracies," how long before the U.S. can join?

Brian Doyle said...

Did you skip 8th grade civics class?

No I'm familiar with how the process works. Even a representative democracy involves voting.

Sarah Palin, however, was absent from class when they went over the responsibilities of the Vice President... and the First Amendment.

Trooper York said...

I just voted here in Brooklyn. My prescient is usually filled with all the old school Italian people who own the brownstones in the neighborhood and have long term renters who have been there twenty years or more. There was no one in my line.

The line next store covers an area which has many more homes that have turned over with newer homeowners and the transients who are renting from them. There were about 100 people in line to vote.

I saw one of the older ladies sweeping her walk as I walked back from the polling booth. I asked her if she had voted. She said no, what's the point. But she did say she was going to buy a new mattress to hide her money under.

Good advice.

Cedarford said...

If you need an ID to rent a move at Blockbuster or withdraw money from the bank, it certainly is reasonable to have one in order to prove you're the person on the voter rolls.

Doyle says:

True, except for the part about being able to rent movies being a fundamental human right.

A Lefty canard.
There is no fundamental human right to vote, only Constitutional requirements to expand or contract the franchised - same in other countries with their Constitutions or guidance of International law, for the few that place that above their Constitutions.

Thus we don't let felons, children under 18, non-residents, mentally incapacitated, or illegal aliens vote - in theory and law at least, though the issues of voter fraud also involve those groups - as well as the old Democrat Machine maxim of "vote early, vote often".

Most US citizens want people to vote. They think it is a good civic thing. But someone who is ineligable to vote or votes repeatedly and illegally is the same as a ballot official tearing up absentee military ballots or blocking someone from voting - a fraudelent vote nullifies the countering preferences of a legitimate voter. Illegally negates the legitimate voter's choices 1 for 1.

***********************
I notice to access some of my other "fundamental human rights" - like to purchase a gun under the second, access government office buildings for the purpose of public assembly and redress of grievances (the 1st), appear in court under habeas or for jury duty (the original text says such a right exists) - I was required to present that funny photo ID thing to establish proof of identity before I could exercise those Constitutional rights.

I suppose we could strike a deal - no ID gun ownership in return for no ID voting. I just go in and say I live in the state, give an address or name, hand over the money, get the weapon I want.
******************

MadisonMan said...
...and let me add that I did not have to show ID this morning. Just told them my street address and my name.


On his way out, he heard an ACORN worker bitching that it was hard enough to get a homeless man with a felony rap sheet to remember one ficticious name and address, let alone 10.

Brian Doyle said...

But she did say she was going to buy a new mattress to hide her money under.

Good advice.


Not today. Blue Horseshoe loves Barack Obama.

Simon said...

Doyle, I don't much care, to tell the truth. I'm under no illusions of the extent to which John McCain shares my view of the Constitution vel non. It suffices for purposes of this election to know that he is closer to the mark than Obama; I have little use for third parties and less and less use, as I get older, for misguided souls who refuse to dirty their hands choosing the lesser of two evils.

Roberto said...

donn, you appear to be infatuated with me.

We know you're a racist, but are you also gay?

If so, sorry...I'm married to a beautiful woman.

Brian Doyle said...

I suppose we could strike a deal - no ID gun ownership in return for no ID voting.

Here's a deal for you: Blow me. You'll get the laws Generalissimo Reid and Supreme Leader for Life Obama decide you'll get.

Trooper York said...

Thats Precinct not prescient.

La senora was prescient. I am afraid we will soon be taxed out of our wazhoo.

It's time to hunker down and stay out of sight.

Roberto said...

We don't let felons vote...but they can serve in the Senate.

Explain that one.

Donn said...

Michael said.....

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

Trooper York said...

Doyle just showed you what it is going to be like. Get used to it.

Roberto said...

trooper: "I am afraid we will soon be taxed out of our wazhoo."

I don't believe you make more than $250,000.

Brian Doyle said...

Doyle just showed you what it is going to be like.

God willing. I'm afraid they'll actually try to avoid hurting Republicans widdle feelings.

Roberto said...

donn, Get over it.

I'm already married to a beautiful woman.

*If you want I guess I could send you a picture of myself so you can...you know...

Synova said...

So when John McCain talks about a "League of Democracies," how long before the U.S. can join?

It's like listening to a five year old.

Our government is a representative republic and even better than that, we have a Constitution that limits that government and guarantees rights to individuals.

A Democracy, simply defined by a vote and "majority rule", protects no one's rights, shelters no minority opinion, offers not much else but the ability of the majority opinion to win the day.

Now, if you want to insist that everyone stop using the word "Democracy" to describe any system where people vote but where majority rule is limited one way or another... I'm fine with that.

But if you want to insist that because we use "Democracy" as a short hand for our system of representation, that we've got to give up on constitutional protections and limitations... up yours. You're not being clever or intelligent.

Or would you like to argue that you *want* to be subject to unfettered "majority rule?"

Donn said...

Michael said.....

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

Donn said...

Michael before post being removed by a blog administrator....

Yada, yada, yada. Insult. Yada, yada, yada. Insult.

Repeat ad infinitum.

Brian Doyle said...

Our government is a representative republic and even better than that, we have a Constitution that limits that government and guarantees rights to individuals.

Unless scary terrorists are after us, then Commander Codpiece can tap our international calls without a warrant, right?

Trooper York said...

"I don't believe you make more than $250,000."

As usual, Blowhard Joe Biden let the cat out of the bag as he lowered the amount of the base for increased taxation. In fact they will alter the alternative minimun tax to dissallow deductions such as state and local income taxes which will result in a tax increase for any single individual who earns more that $30,000 or married couple who earns more than $50,000 in New York State and other highly taxed states. They will couch it as they always do in the theme of "fairness", that it is not fair that other people who don't have to pay state tax don't get that deduction. They did it before and they are going to do it again.

The claim that no one earning less then $250,000 will get a tax increase is quite simply a lie.

Cedarford said...

Simon:
Cedarford, I think I speak for the overwhelming majority of commenters, left and right, Obama supporters, McCain supporters and Palin supporters alike, in asking you to kindly go and fuck yourself, and to do so somewhere else, you vile, misogynist, anti-intellectual anti-semitic pig.


And go fuck yourself right back, you smarmy, self-righteous, kosher crap-licker.

Simon, you have a way of being smarmy and self-righteous even to posters that agree with your pedestrian observations..

************
vbspurs said...
you vile, misogynist, anti-intellectual anti-semitic pig.

He was banned from Ace ages ago, for precisely this.

You certainly speak for me, Simon


Awww, that hurts a tad, VBSPURS, because unlike Simon you actually are intelligent and a decent writer.
*small sniff*
I guess it is a tribal thing. Sort of like Hillary found out when she thought she could keep black voters with her against Obama, but found out like with Aryan Theory and Zionism - loyalty to ties of blood run deeper and thicker than any rational thought, loyalty to benefactors.
Must be tough to juggle those dual, competing loyalties of your own. Which apparantly, and sadly, in Simon's case - extend to being compelled to stick up for the rare imbecile of your tribe.

Brian Doyle said...

By the way is there a bigger closet queen in all of political commentary than John Fund?

Beth said...

Even though by any measure except going to Harvard, he is even less qualified for President than Palin is qualified for President.

Yeah, because there's nothing to serving three terms in his state Senate, representing a district with more population in the state that Palin has governed for two years. Or serving in the U.S. Senate for four years. It's like he just popped up out of nowhere!

walter neff said...

You mean other than you doyle?

Beth said...

And go fuck yourself right back, you smarmy, self-righteous, kosher crap-licker.

Simon, I think that's Cedarford's own way of calling you a race traitor. Good work, mate!

garage mahal said...

God willing. I'm afraid they'll actually try to avoid hurting Republicans widdle feelings.

Remember when Republicans in the 109th would shut out Democrats from committee hearings, and try to ditch them and run to different rooms to convene in? Or how about Rep. Bill Thomas calling capitol police to evict Democrats from a building after Democrats demanded a bill be read by line that just got shoved down their throats in the last minute. After being told to go fuck themselves on the Senate floor I would only hope Democrats remember but good.

Brian Doyle said...

You mean other than you doyle?

Good one Wally! Now get back to The Turner Diaries.

Simon said...

Beth, I took it as a compliment too. ;)

Peter C said...

Mesa AZ,
Voted at my usual time, around 11:15am.
Republican district that voted a Dem for Congress in '06.
More people there than for any of the 12 elections since I've lived here. Big surprise as it's historically the lowest turnout district in the immediate area.

Roberto said...

trooper says: "The claim that no one earning less then $250,000 will get a tax increase is quite simply a lie."

Based on what?

Rush Limbaugh? Sean Hannity?

Provide the details...or better yet, go here to see exactly what your tax liability will be under an Obama Presidency:

http://taxcut.barackobama.com/

walter neff said...

You should be all happy today doyle. Whats the matter. You seem like even more of a hysterical cunt than usual.

Dont you have a cell meeting to attend or something to celebrate.

Simon said...

Walter, he's nervous. He has his front to maintain - that he's certain that Obama will win - but deep down inside, quite possibly subconsciously, he's frightened that Obama will lose. Done in by GOP voter rigging; done in by racism; done in by malpolling; done in by whatever, but in all afraid of four years of President McCain.

Chris Althouse Cohen said...

I had to wait almost two hours in line, and I got there pretty early (around 7:45). I drove by again just now and it still had a very long line. Maybe it's the big cities. Or maybe Prop 8 drove people to the polls. I can't understand being motivated to vote because you support Prop 8. How can eliminating someone else's rights be that important to you?

Simon said...

Christopher Althouse Cohen
"How can eliminating someone else's rights be that important to you?"

Because they don't look at it as being about eliminating someone else's rights.

Do you have any feel for how Prop. 11 will do?

reader_iam said...

Unless I'm not remembering correctly, I think Cathy Young once mentioned on her blog having dated John Fund for a while.

Trooper York said...

They haven't announced the details because they lie. When the alternative minimum tax was instituted it increased the tax liabilities exactly as I have enumerated. President Bush's tax cuts somewhat ameliorated this, but since they are going to "repeal" these changes, the alternative minimum tax will increase the tax burden exactly as I have stated. I do not need to read a website full of talking points; I know that the taxes will go up because I actually do the tax returns. They will increase taxes not by raising the rates, but by limiting or eliminating deductions that they deem are not "fair."

They did it before under Bill Clinton and they will do it again.

Anything else they might say is a lie.

Get ready for your tax burden to increase somewhere between 5% and 15% depending on your income and deductions.

I don’t really care if you believe me or not, just wait for your tax returns.

Roberto said...

Cedar: "Simon, you have a way of being smarmy and self-righteous even to posters that agree with your pedestrian observations."

Ain't that the truth...but, hey don't you know?

Simon fancies himself some kind of intellectual. Why do you think he uses a picture of the ultimate "smarmy, self-righteous" piece of crap Scalia to somehow (in his own mind) promote his belief that he has a unique understanding of law and politics.

Roberto said...

Trooper York said..."They haven't announced the details because they lie."

So, Trooper...do be also believe McCain and Palin when they say they'll balance the budget by the end of their first term?

Or...are they "lying?"

knox said...

zach,

Hard to say because I wasn't paying close attention until I heard your name, so I didn't hear exactly what was leading up to it. He sounded amused by it.. but that sort of describes Rush's entire show.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Beth said Yeah, because there's nothing to serving three terms in his state Senate,

Yep, I'd say that's pretty darn accurate.

Hoosier Daddy said...

You should be all happy today doyle. Whats the matter. You seem like even more of a hysterical cunt than usual.

Cut him some slack, he's on his period.

reader_iam said...

We voted at about 11:30 a.m. One of the poll workers said the traffic had been steady, but there was never much of a line (at least in my area, there is an abundance of polling stations). She said 254 people had voted so far (she was keeping track because just about everybody's first question upon entering the place was, "How's the turnout?"). There was a mixed group of people there (workers and voters), which I'd expect, given the precinct. Everyone was calm, and there wasn't a whole bunch of conversation ... except with regard to my son, because when asked whether he was there to vote, he rolled his eyes, laughed, and launched into an explanation of voting requirements, concluding with an offer to explain how to fill out the ballot and how the optical scanner works. This cracked up pretty much everyone. I guess our unit study has been a success!

While going to our traditional post-voting celebration lunch, we drove by a couple of other voting locations. From at least what we could see, the situation appeared to be similar. One notable thing, though: It did appear there was more foot traffic than I can recall in previous elections***; that is, people walking up to the locations as opposed to exiting cars. This stood out, to me, though I haven't a clue as to whether it means anything.

**I have a habit of driving by election locations on election days, especially presidential ones. It's a quirk, I know.

Trooper York said...

In short, if they say they are going to balance the budget, they lie. If anyone says they are going to balance the budget, then they lie. They don’t have the balls to cut the spending or raise the taxes on either side of the aisle.

I don’t expect you to ever admit that your guy lies because you are one of the most dishonest and fraudulent people to ever post on the internet Lucky. No proof will ever suffice. No fact will ever penetrate you self righteous noggin.

Rich B said...

Michael-

Loved your post. You went four for four in misjudgments.

Keep up the good work.

Rich B said...

Michael-

Loved your post. You went four for four in misjudgments.

Keep up the good work.

Roberto said...

Rich B said..."Loved your post. You went four for four in misjudgments."

Based on what?

You? Rush? Sean?

Why not refute what I posted with an opinion of your own or even facts...instead of a silly carte blanche comment that carries little if any weight?

garage mahal said...

Trooper
The only people lying about balancing the budget (in 1st term!) are McCain and Palin.

Roberto said...

Trooper, I like to think "my guy" isn't lying, but merely saying what he believes he can accomplish.

Whether he can or not, if he's elected, we'll all have to wait and see.

As for McCain and Palin saying they'll balance the budget in four years, I think that carries the day as being an out and out lie...and they know it, too.

This IS an election and well ALL know things are said and promised, things like not being a "nation builder" or being a "compassionate conservative" that don't pan out as planned or, maybe are just plain bullshit from the get-go.

I don't expect many here to accept or agree with any of my arguments or opinions, but I personally believe Obama ran the best of the campaigns and has the intelligences and tenacity to be a good President.

I also think McCain lost any chance when he chose Palin, whether you and others think she's God gift to America or not...and he'll regret it for years to come.

dannyboy said...

Barrack Hussein Obama is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Synova said...

Unless scary terrorists are after us, then Commander Codpiece can tap our international calls without a warrant, right?

Okay, Doyle. I'm with you. Let's scrap the whole thing. It doesn't matter what Clinton was doing that no one cared about. It matters not at all what will happen under Obama's presidency (if he wins as most expect he will). It matters not at all what presidents would *like* to do, or have done.

F*ck the constitution.

We'll just go with majority vote.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I also think McCain lost any chance when he chose Palin,

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Seriously, please stop insulting us by making statements that have about as much basis in reality as your belief in unicorns and Tinker Bell.

Palin energized the conservative base which pre-Palin was pretty much resigned to sitting at home today and they pretty much demonstrated it as shown in the massive rallies McCain could not have gotten if he was handing out $100 bills. As much as that fact eludes your pre-conceived bias and bigotry toward her as a female and Christian, that's your problem not ours.

Brian Doyle said...


F*ck the constitution.


Spoken like a true Bush follower.

It's not a suicide pact, right?

reader_iam said...

One other thing: We've gotten lots--and I do mean LOTS--of calls, from actual people as well as recordings. We've gotten tons of literature, at our street address, at our PO Box, and at both doors (we have a corner lot, and many mistakenly think there's more than one apartment here).

Today alone, we had two people ring the doorbell (which, by the way, activates this big door knocker, which actually moved outside: always fun to see the look on people's faces) before we left to vote. It was clear that at least three others had stopped by in the 1-1/2 hours we were gone. I don't ever remember that much foot traffic on election day itself, in all the years we've lived here, now--and it was all from the Dem side. And while the mailed literature was split, the calls over the past week have been almost entirely from the Dems (a notable exception involves an incumbent GOP rep involved in a battle). This is NOT, repeat NOT, usual. I realize the situation with Iowa, but still: There really doesn't seem to be much fight/organization here, at least not in our area.

FWIW.

Brian Doyle said...

Palin energized the conservative base which pre-Palin was pretty much resigned to sitting at home today

I don't buy it. I think the prospect of an Obama presidency would have gotten the base off their ample asses.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Okay, Doyle. I'm with you. Let's scrap the whole thing.

That's not entirely fair. If Bush was a Democrat he could have rounded up all the Ay-rabs and put them in internment camps like Saint FDR did and Doyle would have admired his spunk for protecting us.

Trooper York said...

Garage when you say something that you know isn't true you are lying. For McCain to say they will balance the budget within four years is quite simply a lie. They know they can't do it, so they are lying.

For Obama to say that he will only raise taxes on those who earn over $250,000 a year is a lie. A bald faced lie. I don't expect his partisans to ever admit that the sainted one has ever did anything wrong. That's not the way you roll.

You know I just heard a really great dance mix of "Don't Stop Believing" you know the song from the end of the Sopranos. You guys should get a copy to play for the next four years.

Roberto said...

Hoosier, You act as if I'm the only one who believes Palin was a poor choice.

George Will, Peggy Noonan and others have expressed the same sentiments and up until they abandoned McCain, they've been held in high regard by Republicans and conservatives for decades.

I appreciate your support of Palin and belief that she "energized the conservative base," but anybody who thinks McCain needed that specific segment of voters...over the Independent voters...is dreaming.

He already had the conservative base on his side...unless you think they were going to vote for a liberal black man.

Do you???

Donn said...

Get with the program Michael.....

Republicans are happier with their vice presidential candidate than their presidential nominee, while Democrats feel good about both candidates on their ticket, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.

Hoosier Daddy said...

I don't buy it.

I really don't care if you do Doyle. I'm not going to make assumptions why Obama picked a complete dumbass like Biden as his running mate because I don't pretend to understand the liberal mind since it's all white noise to me anyway. Conservatives were not enamored with McCain. Ever. What part of that don't you guys get? For you guys who thought Liberman was his ticket to the White House goes to show how completely out of touch you are with what drives conservatives.

Stick with analyzing your own, you'll look smarter.

Simon said...

Doyle said...
"I don't buy it. I think the prospect of an Obama presidency would have gotten the base off their ample asses."

You're wrong. Prior to McCain picking Palin, I had several conversations with people who actually are part of the conservative base - real social conservatives, not moderates like me who you're so insulated from reality as to think are hardline conservatives - pleading with them not to stay home. They weren't going to support McCain. This election was over and done with until McCain picked Palin - he was going to lose big. Picking her breathed life into the campaign that no one else could have managed, unified the party and brought the ticket within striking distance. It's as simple as that. That you can't understand or believe that from your bazillionth floor office in your insular little Noo York sandpit doesn't change the reality of the situation as it actually was in real America.

Roberto said...

Hoosier says: "Ay-rabs."

Geeee, what exactly do you mean by that?

That ALL Arabs or Muslims are terrorists perhaps? (And keep in mind, there are only one billion Muslims roaming the planet.)

And you wonder why Bush carries around a 23% approval rating? Or why McCain hasn't been able to scare Americans into voting for him?

Americans aren't buying into it anymore.

Brian Doyle said...


I really don't care if you do Doyle.


Well I don't care that you don't care times infinity no tagbacks!


Conservatives were not enamored with McCain. Ever. What part of that don't you guys get?


Oh I get it. I just don't believe that absent the Sarah Palin pick they wouldn't have voted for him anyway.

Hoosier Daddy said...

George Will, Peggy Noonan and others have expressed the same sentiments and up until they abandoned McCain, they've been held in high regard by Republicans and conservatives for decades.

Are you serious?

anybody who thinks McCain needed that specific segment of voters...over the Independent voters...is dreaming.

Michael are you a conservative? Seriously are you? You think the pointy heads like Noonan or Will speak for the average conservative? If you think McCain had the conservative base sown up you are confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.

He already had the conservative base on his side...unless you think they were going to vote for a liberal black man.

Um, no he didn't and I never claimed they were going to vote for the 'liberal black man'. I stated they'd stay home.

But lets not take my word for it, how about the conservatives here prove me wrong and tell me how they hang on the words of Noonan, Will et al and think Romney or Lieberman would have been better choices.

Brian Doyle said...

I had several conversations with people who actually are part of the conservative base - real social conservatives, not moderates like me who you're so insulated from reality as to think are hardline conservatives - pleading with them not to stay home.

Yeah yeah. Just a bunch of drama queens. People who care passionately about primary fights overwhelmingly vote in the general.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Geeee, what exactly do you mean by that?

It was sarcasm. I forgot, I have to draw pictures for you.

Roberto said...

Simon says: "They weren't going to support McCain. This election was over and done with until McCain picked Palin - he was going to lose big."

But how do you know how they would have reacted to Tom Ridge? Or Romney? Or Pawlenty? Or Crist? Or even Lieberman?

The fact that they reacted favorably to Palin is a specious argument since you never got to see a reaction to any other choice.

*And if she's such a dynamic addition to the ticket, how do you explain her plummeting ratings or polls that say a majority do think she's qualified?

Roberto said...

Hoosier, oh it was "sarcasm."

Kind of like calling blacks darkies?

Or Jews kikes?

THAT kind of "sarcasm?"

You know exactly what it was.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Picking her breathed life into the campaign that no one else could have managed, unified the party and brought the ticket within striking distance. It's as simple as that. That you can't understand or believe that from your bazillionth floor office in your insular little Noo York sandpit doesn't change the reality of the situation as it actually was in real America.

Simon that is the funny part of liberals like Doyle and Michael who think they have some secret insight on the minds of conservatives and know better than us what really motivates the party.

Brian Doyle said...

Simon that is the funny part of liberals like Doyle and Michael who think they have some secret insight on the minds of conservatives and know better than us what really motivates the party.

Greed, fear, and prejudice. Did I miss any?

garage mahal said...

Garage when you say something that you know isn't true you are lying. For McCain to say they will balance the budget within four years is quite simply a lie. They know they can't do it, so they are lying.

Hey, I didn't say it McCain/Palin did.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier, oh it was "sarcasm."

Kind of like calling blacks darkies?

Or Jews kikes?

THAT kind of "sarcasm?"

You know exactly what it was.


That's funny coming from a guy who wondered why Simon went off on Cedarford.

I mean that is really funny. Too bad you're too much of a dumbass to see the irony.

Unknown said...

The fact that they reacted favorably to Palin is a specious argument since you never got to see a reaction to any other choice.

So does that mean that claims that Obama has uniquely energized the base are specious because we didn't get a chance to see how Hillary would perform in the general? She earned plenty of votes in the primaries as well, you know.

Roberto said...

Hoosier, are you actually trying to say Will and Noonan aren't considered conservatives?

I realize neither are quite as radical as a Bennett or Newt, but they sure fit the mode of a Hatch and many others that consider themselves staunch conservatives.

C'mon, at least try to be honest with your arguments. The only reason you've blathering on about them now is that they apparently don't support McCain's choice of Palin.

Hoosier Daddy said...

But how do you know how they would have reacted to Tom Ridge? Or Romney? Or Pawlenty? Or Crist? Or even Lieberman?


Well we didn't want Liberman because we didn't want to see the liberals put out cartoons with him in blackface again.

As for the rest, we did react when those were being discussed. It was a yawn.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier, are you actually trying to say Will and Noonan aren't considered conservatives?

No I said they don't represent mainstream conservative thought.

MadisonMan said...

cedarford, Acorn would be wasting time and money in my neighborhood because everyone who lives in my ward is already registered -- they've lived here for years! That's why you need no ID -- the poll worker knows you.

I still can't believe I slipped up and actually read one of your comments. True enough, you slipped in a foolish comment at the end. Plus ça change, etc.

Brian Doyle said...

CBS asked people who switched from McCain to Obama why they did so and Sarah Palin was the #1 answer.

For every potential conscientious objector wingnut she brought off the sidelines, she pushed 3 or 4 Independents into Obama's column.

Roberto said...

mcg asks: "So does that mean that claims that Obama has uniquely energized the base are specious because we didn't get a chance to see how Hillary would perform in the general?"

Not at all, and that's a silly argument.

Obama's base was energized from the start, and you can bet your ass he considered selecting Hillary, and he took flack for not doing so. And there are to this day, those who think he should have selected her...but that has nothing to do with the Palin selection.

McCain cracked under the pressure of the radical conservative and hard Christian base he thought he didn't have and made a huge mistake.

Just as we'll see more books from insiders relating to the Bush administration, we'll also see the same relating to the Palin pick and how it changed the entire McCain campaign...for the good and the bad.

My guess: Most will consider the selection to be bad.

Unknown said...

Not at all, and that's a silly argument.

No, it's a logical one. The point is that you're claiming that somehow one can't gauge the excitement of the base without some sort of real-time comparison. At least, that's the claim you're making with Palin. With Obama you're more than happy to accept another standard of evidence.

Doyle is certainly right that some independents were turned off by Palin. Heck, some conservatives were too. But as for the base, it's clear that Palin has energized it.

Roberto said...

Hoosier, you say Will and Noonan don't "represent mainstream conservative thought."

Then why has Will had a conservative column for the past 30 years, and supported every Republican candidate?

Wikipedia: "George Frederick Will is a Pulitzer Prize-winning conservative American newspaper columnist, journalist, and author."

And I assume Noonan wrote all those speeches for Reagan and Bush because she doesn't "represent mainstream conservative thought??"

Wikipedia: "Peggy Noonan is an author of seven books on politics, religion and culture, a weekly columnist for The Wall Street Journal, and was a primary speech writer and Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan. She is considered a political conservative."

What the hell are you smoking??

Brian Doyle said...

Yeah the excommunication of Nooners is hilarious.

Titusjustvoted said...

This anger has to stop.

I want to see Doyle and Synova hug.

While hugging nipples become erect, hog grows, vag becomes wet, lips (down there) quiver, goosebumps arrive, FIVE GOLDEN RINGS!!!!!!!

Roberto said...

MCG: McCain traded the hard right vote for the Independent vote, which was a huge blunder. He would have garnered many voters that consider themselves "moderates" had he chosen Ridge, Romney, Pawlenty or Lieberman.

Whether you love Palin or not, HE ALREADY had 99% of the conservatives, unless you think they were going to vote for a liberal black man.

DO YOU?

former law student said...

I can't understand being motivated to vote because you support Prop 8. How can eliminating someone else's rights be that important to you?

The right came into being only in mid-June of this year, so it was only tenuously established. Further, the long established civil unions give same-sex couples all the recognitions and benefits of marriage save the name.

The California Supreme Court struck down the ban this May, overturning the will of the voters expressed in 2000, in Proposition 22 -- not a constitutional amendment. Let the voters decide.

Brian Doyle said...

Let the voters decide.

Pshaw. Voters in the Deep South didn't want their schools desegregated. The appropriate response is tough shit.

LoafingOaf said...

I don't know what this means for the election, but I live in Cuyahoga County, Ohio - which is the Democratic stronghold of Ohio - and there was NO LINE AT ALL when I voted. But, then, there has never been a line when I vote, which is odd as my neighbors seem like very politically involved people (unlike me).

Is it just smarter to vote in the afternoon? I voted at 2:15pm. Or, why was there no line at all? I suspect maybe the lines are in the morning and after people get off work in the evening?

I asked for a paper record of my vote and the lady told me I'd have to put a dollar in the machine. Fuck that. You have to pay a dollar to get a paper confirmation of your vote? Eh?! So...my scan sheet was sucked into a machine and I recevied no confirmation about what the machine actually read. WAY TO GO, OHIO, as the Pretenders once sang.......................

LoafingOaf said...

I mention the voting method because in my silly county we have a new voting method every year. One day they'll spend millions on voting machines that actually work right, I guess. No one told me you'd have to put a dollar in the machine to get a paper confirmation of your vote. Who came up with that?

DaLawGiver said...

Michael the meatsack is still blowing and going. Remember, for erections lasting longer than 8 hours consult your doctor immediately!

Simon said...

Titusjustvoted said...
"I want to see Doyle and Synova hug."

To judge from her profile pic, I'm going to bet that Doyle wants to see Doyle and Synova hug, and who could blame him.


Doyle said...
"[T]he excommunication of Nooners is hilarious. "

She excommunicated herself.

"Voters in the Deep South didn't want their schools desegregated. The appropriate response is tough shit."

I couldn't agree more. The equal protection clause absolutely and plainly slammed the door on allocating students based on race. It was a disgrace that the court failed to recognize that for almost a century; it was even more of a disgrace that the south resisted; and until two years ago, I would have thought it unimaginable that in this day and age, there would still be four justices of the Supreme Court who wanted to overrule Brown and go back to allocating students based on race. Shame on Justices Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer for that.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

MadisonMan
That's why you need no ID -- the poll worker knows you.

MM - I live in the village of Grafton, WI. I have also lived in Fox Point and city of Milwaukee. In all my years in WI I have never been asked for my ID to vote. I am only asked for my address. In my experience, once you are registered, you are in. Hence the concern about all these groups submitting fake registrations.

Unknown said...

Whether you love Palin or not, HE ALREADY had 99% of the conservatives, unless you think they were going to vote for a liberal black man.

How hard is this for you to understand? That's a false choice.

For one thing, you're neglecting the option of not voting at all. With turnout levels as high as they seem to be this time around, a base that isn't motivated ain't gonna cut it.

Furthermore, even if they do vote, are they going to give as much money? Are they going to make as many calls? Are they going to volunteer as many hours?

Simon said...

FLS, the problem I have with prop. 8 is that it doesn't just overrule the decision in... What was it? I want to say Lewis? At any rate, it doesn't just say "the court was wrong, the state constitution doesn't say anything about marriage," it injects a definition of marriage into the Constitution, just the opposite one. I really don't like that, frankly. The way I'd evaluate it, if I lived in California, would start with asking whether the Supreme Court of California did in fact invent a new right, did it misread the Constitution? I don't know what California's constitution says; for all I know it does contain such a right. So I'd want to know if the court got it wrong. If it did, I would ask myself whether the costs of this particular response to the court's decision outweighed the benefits: this amendment goes further than I would prefer, but on the other hand, is another response practical or likely? If it's this or nothing, is the long term damage of this case in terms of how the courts approach interpreting the Constitution so high that this response is better than no response? I don't know how that thought process plays out, because I don't live in California and it's not worth my time to decide irrelevant issues. But that's the way I'd approach making a decision.

john said...

If there is anyone left that would like to return to: "Meanwhile, tell us about voting where you are.", as our hostess said at the top of this thread, then why not leave the trolls behind and get back on topic? We have been arguing the same points with the same people for, it seems, eons now. Well, not actually arguing, yelling.

Or maybe we should ponder what will we intend to do tomorrow, when the election is over and we have to find other meaning in our lives.

LoafingOaf said...

I know everyone was most excited about the presidential race, but what made me feel best about voting was an issue on the Ohio ballot that - if passed - will place strict restrictions on those evil payday loan places that lend people money and then charge something like 329% interest! If that issue passes and they can no longer charge such obscene interest rates, I will feel it was well worth having voted. It was a clear-cut choice of good vs evil. :)

Roberto said...

MCG: I agree with your point that Palin probably helped bring in donations and a brand of conservative excitement, but as I said before; I still believe as the public and even the conservatives saw more and more of her (the interviews were a disaster) her selection looked less and less viable.

I understand why hard right conservatives (and of course the Christian right) love Palin, but the thought of her possibly ascending to the Presidency scared many and that's when her polling began to fall...as did McCain's.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

But lets not take my word for it, how about the conservatives here prove me wrong and tell me how they hang on the words of Noonan, Will et al and think Romney or Lieberman would have been better choices.

There is no way in Hell that I wanted McCain on the ticket and double no way that I would want Lieberman or Huckabee as a VP choice. Nothing against the men. They are all fine people, but they are all basically not conservatives at all.

I'm not a especially a social or religious conservative. More of fiscal conservative, small government, low taxes, free enterprise type of person. But I also believe in a strong military for protection.

Until McCain put Palin on the ticket I wasn't going to vote at all and stated so many times on this blog.

People like Michael and Doyle haven't the slightest clue WTF they are talking about.

Roberto said...

John, how's the voting going where YOU live?

I voted early, the line was short and everything went as planned.

(There's not much more one can say, John...unless something unusual happens...and most voters who didn't vote earlier in the week won't even show up until after work.)

Roberto said...

Bunny, our opinions are just as valid as your own.

The fact that you weren't even going to vote says a lot about what kind of support you lend to your party or candidate of choice.

I personally always vote.

john said...

Loafingoaf,

Arizona had, I think, the same proposition, however it was written by the payday loan industry and I think was meant to forstall harsher laws that may be in the pipe. I was worried enough about it to vote no. I wonder if Ohio's was the same.

I had a mastercard once that charged more than 39%.

I voted no on all the props, as well as no to retaining all the thousands of our superior court judges.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

George Will may know a lot about baseball, but he isn't a conservative or one that conservatives look to as a role model. Same thing with Noonan. Slightly to the right elitists, both of them

Now....here is a conservative that is respected and a man whose opinions I respect in the highest.... Thomas Sowell

LoafingOaf said...

"Until McCain put Palin on the ticket I wasn't going to vote at all and stated so many times on this blog."

What about Pawlenty?

Roberto said...

From TMZ, of all sites:

Nearly 400 people were firmly planted in line at 6:15 this morning, waiting for the polls to open at 7:00 AM. There is one voting machine to accommodate all of them.

This is a predominantly African-American community, with only one machine to punch in residents' votes.

Contrast that with an email we received from a voter near Columbus, Ohio, where, he says, historically very few people show up to vote. There were 14 voting machines on hand -- in this case, a needed amount for the influx of nearby college students showing up to the polls.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The fact that you weren't even going to vote says a lot about what kind of support you lend to your party or candidate of choice.

What part of I don't support McCain do you not get? What part of conservative does NOT equal Republican do you not get.

This is your intellectual failing and that of many like you. You can't concieve that people will vote for the candidates on the issues and not on a straight party line vote.

I don't support McCain and I don't support Republicans. I do support Palin and voted for Ross Perot two times.

Try to get it through your remarkably thick skull that conservatives are not all Republicans and all Republicans are not conservative. Try refreshing your memory of your college logic classes.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What about Pawlenty?

Who?

Actually, I don't know enough about him to make an informed decision on if he might have changed my mind.

Roberto said...

bunny - You may want to pass your George Will not being a conservative silliness on to the millions who have been reading his column every week for the past 30 years or so.

He may not satisfy your personal agenda for a conservative or be as radical as you want, but to any avid political reader, he most certainly is a conservative.

Where do you come up with this tripe?

Unknown said...

Mark Ambinder: Minnesota "Closer"?

I'm a student at Carleton College who has contributed (financially and with my time) to the Obama campaign. I just got an automated call from Jeff Blodgett, the chair of the MN campaign. The text of the call was:

"Hello, this is Jeff Blodgett from the Minnesota for Obama campaign. Our initial data shows this election is significantly closer than the polls predicted. We are putting out an urgent call for volunteers... We are organized groups to knock on doors at five P.M., or earlier if you can, for our final GOTV operation." This was followed by different numbers to call based on your residence.

Unknown said...

Mark Ambinder:An Obama "urgent" e-mail

Friends -- Barack needs your help now -- our data indicates that the results will be very close in many states. I can't emphasize enough how urgent this message is. Please go to http://my.barackobama.com/call and start calling as soon as you can. We are not going to hit our goal of 500,000 calls for today by 3pm Central, unless we get at least 2,000 more people calling for the next hour. Can you call now and continue for as long as you can manage? http://my.barackobama.com/call Thank you. Judith

LoafingOaf said...

Arizona had, I think, the same proposition, however it was written by the payday loan industry and I think was meant to forstall harsher laws that may be in the pipe. I was worried enough about it to vote no. I wonder if Ohio's was the same.

The payday lenders went all out against the issue in Ohio.

This editorial in the local paper is what made it clear to me: Keep it simple: Vote yes on Issue 5 to lower payday loan rates

Unknown said...

On the other hand, "Jazzed Up" Democrats in North Carolina

I went to volunteer for the Obama campaign here in Charlotte, NC at 9:00am. By the time I got there, they had ran out of stuff for the volunteers to do. I asked if I could canvass - covered. I asked if I could take people to their poll precinct - covered. I ask if I could go to the polling places and help people if there were any problems - covered. I ask if I could make phone calls - all of the phone lines were taken up so I used my cell phone. After waiting for an hour, they found a neighborhood that I could canvass. I canvassed 27 houses. 13 of them had already voted and were eager to tell me that they voted for Obama. They also thanked me for the work I was doing. 2 weren't so friendly and wouldn't tell me anything and 2 weren't home so I left a friendly reminder on the door.

If this is like anything that is going on across the country, Obama has ground game unlike anything ever seen before and people are jazzed up about it.

(P.S. - Everyone I talked to were white middle class people.)

john said...

Loafingoaf -

The AZ payday loan industry was backing this prop. Good indicator.

Roberto said...

"What about Pawlenty?"

Dust Bunny Queen - "Who?"

Good lord...does that not pretty much say it all?

john said...

Michael,

I posted my voting experience earlier. It was very nice and I am pleased that you care. I should mention that I had a thorn in my sock, and that the parking lot at the voting place was rather full, but the people were so nice, and the weather has been great. No trouble at all.

I just got a call from "retired general" Wesley Clark. Wow, rolling out the big guns. Guess who he wanted me to vote for.

Cedarford said...

"I also think McCain lost any chance when he chose Palin."

Hoosier - You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.....

Palin energized the conservative base which pre-Palin was pretty much resigned to sitting at home today and they pretty much demonstrated it as shown in the massive rallies McCain could not have gotten if he was handing out $100 bills.


I agree with the original poster. I also, and hate to agree with Doyle on this, but "energizing" the Base would have eventually happened as much as McCain was detested for his backstabbings...as the Base rose off their Southern-fried food enriched asses at the prospect of an Obama Presidency.

The problem with Palin was as if Bill Clinton had selected Jesse Jackson back in 1992 for VP to "energize the Base of Leftists & blacks to vote". America is a place where one must appeal to a broad state or national constituency. If Bubba Bill went with Jesse, he might have gained 5 million wildly enthusiastic black and Leftist votes who might otherwise have sat 1992 out, but at the cost of losing 25 million votes elsewhere, losing several states, and dragging the ticket down in Congressional and State elections.

Add that by picking Palin, McCain not only lost votes in the Center as Clinton would have done with a Jesse pick - he lost his most powerful argument against Obama.

The experience issue.

He also reinforced concerns with voters that a 72 year old man who has battled a virulent form of cancer 3 times had a "not ready" replacement. With some peculiar Fundie ideas, anti-abortion religious zealotry, and an appearance of huge holes in her knowledge of national and international matters needing good executive management, a baseline knowledge of.

McCain was convinced he had to toss a bone to Fundies, and none of the more qualified women or hispanics, nor the men outside the South, had drunk of that Born Again Elexir. Just Palin.

Tomorrow, we will have Palin in the same spot as John Edwards. A charismatic VP that didn't do squat to get new States or states in contention. Or defend the ones the Dems had very well....But each will have ended the contest convinced that Silky Ponies like them have cultlike love and they become the natural heirs, via a feckless Kerry or McCain hunch - to be the annointed candidate next time...

Don't blame Palin, in the sense that she saw her ambitions open up and a national following (or should be say Bible Belt only following) build around her sloganeering, shouting talking points, and looking damn good in the new duds doing so.
McCain was a flawed candidate to start with - worse than Old Soldier Dole's attempt to run on character and largely devoid of vision.

As with Kerry-Edwards, with McCain-Palin, a national Party got the candidates they deserved at the time.

A Romney or a caffeinated Thompson could have afforded to go with a Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Haley Barbour, Charlie Christ (Romney) or a Tom Ridge or Pawlenty (Thompson). Alas, McCain had done so many betrayals that he HAD to select a Fundie (he thought on impulse). He couldn't go with a 20-year widely respected Hutchinson because he dislikes her. The rest of the women and men were disliked by the Fundies on being less than zealots on their anti-abortion stances, or of the wrong religion (Ridge, Rudy, Romney).

But honestly, even if Romney had been the nominee and picked Hutchinson or Ridge or Pawlenty...he would have been an underdog given the Republicans failures & descent after 1994. But it sure would have been fun to watch him eviscerate Obama on experience, lack of executive ability, Rev Wright, the economy, muddled foreign policy. Romney would have run on the issues, not on being a POW and a 30-year inside DC "maverick" to his "good friends".

Christy said...

You do know that Noonan is voting for McCain, right? About 4 minutes into the video.

Roberto said...

I'll bet Dust Bunny didn't get her ass out to vote today either.

Talk, talk, talk...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dust Bunny Queen - "Who?"

Good lord...does that not pretty much say it all?


What is says is in addition to lacking a sense of humor, you also lack a sense of sarcasm.

I know who Pawlenty is. I don't know that much about him that would single him out from the crowd and make me change my mind on voting for McCain. I did know a lot about Palin and was pulling for her to be chosen well before she became a name on the national scene.

Simon said...

Christy said...
"You [all] do know that Noonan is voting for McCain, right?"

Just between us, so is Hillary, but that doesn't make her a conservative. ;)

LoafingOaf said...

Let's celebrate this day.

No more fighting. Let's all promote LOVE.


The local Ben & Jerry's is giving out free ice cream cones to voters this evening, so that's where I'm off to! :D

Christy said...

Anyone see this scene from Philly? Voter intimidation or not?

Unknown said...

The local Ben & Jerry's is giving out free ice cream cones to voters this evening, so that's where I'm off to! :D

That IS sweet! However I hope they're giving them to anyone today. Starbucks had a similar promotion and got busted for it---you can't reward voting. So, they've changed the promotion and are giving a free coffee to anyone who asks today.

LoafingOaf said...

john: The AZ payday loan industry was backing this prop. Good indicator

Yeah, sounds like you made the right choice then, but Ohio's was different. It felt good voting against predatory lenders. :)

LoafingOaf said...

That IS sweet! However I hope they're giving them to anyone today. Starbucks had a similar promotion and got busted for it---you can't reward voting. So, they've changed the promotion and are giving a free coffee to anyone who asks today.

I think Ben & Jerry's is giving them to everyone - no need to show your "I voted" sticker. But I'll find out in a few minutes!

Roberto said...

I can't imagine Noonan or Will NOT voting for McCain.

Regardless of their opinion of the McCain campaign or Palin...they ARE conservative Republicans.

LoafingOaf said...

And, hmm, so I can snag a free coffee at Starbucks too? Righteous!

Trooper York said...

George Will does not know anything about baseball.

Trooper York said...

If you read his book about baseball you would know this. After I read it, I discounted anything he ever said about anything.

I don't think he is a real conservative, I think he just plays one on TV. Just like Tucker Carlson another bow tie wearing douche who is a paid journalist whore.

The only thing worse than a journalist is a lawyer.

garage mahal said...

George Will is thesaurus jello.

Unknown said...

I'm not gonna sweat exit polls either way, but for joke value I'll post this one:

With white men McCain is +10 IN, +13 OH and +19 in VA.

RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unknown said...

And, hmm, so I can snag a free coffee at Starbucks too? Righteous!

Well, it's only a "tall" cup of their burned drip. But if that suits you... (it suits me fine, I load up with half and half anyway).

reader_iam said...

Yesterday, there was mention of some mysterious database somewhere, though with reference to polls. Well, today, just for this moment, I WISH THERE WERE! Only because I voted hours and hours ago, but of course our phones are still regularly ringing and we're still getting knocks on our doors. Between my mom's situation, a work project and an expected delivery, I can't even ignore the phones OR the door. Aaargh!

(Breathe in, breathe out.) Oh, well. It'll be over soon enough. Polls close at 9.

/minor, petty, passing rant.

DaLawGiver said...

The only thing worse than a journalist is a lawyer.

Agreed. And even thought the giants administered an ass whuppin to the Cowboys last Sunday they still suck, it's just that Dallas sucks more right now. Yep, we got you right where we want you, in the Division lead where you'll get the bye week in the playoffs and get your asses smoked by some scrub team from the west coast.

Unknown said...

Ann's got a new live thread up.

Roberto said...

I love the sudden conversion of many here who suddenly feel George Will is not really a "conservative."

Here's a man who was the editor of the National Review, one of the most conservative magazines in America, helped Ronald Reagan prepare for his 1980 debates, and has a wife who was a senior staffer for the Dole presidential campaign.

The next time you encounter a "liberal" ask them if they also think he's really not a "conservative"...and watch them fall down laughing.

Duncan said...

Voted circa 1500 hrs in school gymnasium in old NJ industrial town 60% black, 25% Hispanic, 15% everyone else.

One McCain/Palin sign observed in whole town. My wife requested that we not display our affiliation.

Polling place was deserted.

Felt no white guilt voting straight
Republican ticket.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Hoosier, you say Will and Noonan don't "represent mainstream conservative thought."

Michael,

Again, when the usual conservative commenters on Althouse who vary demographically across the country come out and say: Hoosier is a moron for thinking Palin was a disaster for McCain, I will forthrightly retract my words and concede your wisdom.

Put another way, I hold the opinions and thoughts of everyday conservatives such as Simon, DBQ, Trooper, Reverent, Machos, Drill Sgt., Pete, Vic and Synova, MCG and others in a much higher standard than I do Noonan and Will who I think run in different circles of thought than the average conservative. If I am wrong then I'll admit I don't know what I'm talking about.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Whether you love Palin or not, HE ALREADY had 99% of the conservatives, unless you think they were going to vote for a liberal black man.

See the one nagging little factoid you are consistently overlooking is that 99% of the conservatives were going to vote.

If 99% of conservatives actually came to the polls on election day, you guys would be lucky to win dogcatcher.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Hoosier is a moron for thinking Palin was a disaster for McCain, I will forthrightly retract my words and concede your wisdom.

Nope..Hoosier is right in that Palin was a brilliant pick for McCain and drew the base together, brought people out who would have otherwise stayed home. Will and Noonan are not "conservatives". And I will take Troopers word that Will doesn't know about baseball since all I don't follow the sport and know very little about it.

However, I am concerned that Hoosier plays the Alliance side(and a priestess at that). Very troubling.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Bunny, our opinions are just as valid as your own.

Actually they aren't Everyone has a right to an opinion, it doesn't mean it holds any weight when you think you as a liberal know what truly motivates conservatives. For example, you may hold the opinion that your 8 year old's finger painting is truly better than anything Picasso ever painted and 99.999% of the art world would nod sympathetically at your evident mental instability.

Hoosier Daddy said...

However, I am concerned that Hoosier plays the Alliance side(and a priestess at that). Very troubling.

Ok it's an alt that I made just so I could get in a raid group and I just wanted to show some diversity on the realm. Really. Honest. I have a night elf warrior that is really tough and masculine.

wait...Night elf...masculine.. dammit! Ok so its not a Blood Elf you have to give me that. Go ahead, open my wrists ;-)

Cedarford said...

Simon - I had several conversations with people who actually are part of the conservative base - real social conservatives, not moderates like me who you're so insulated from reality as to think are hardline conservatives - pleading with them not to stay home. They weren't going to support McCain. This election was over and done with until McCain picked Palin - he was going to lose big. Picking her breathed life into the campaign that no one else could have managed, unified the party and brought the ticket within striking distance. It's as simple as that.

You are so full of shit.

The Fundies were all over the place. Some wanted Romney. Others Pastor Huckleberry. Jindal! Condi despite her slavish loyalty to Bush that had her 8 years with her pro-choice head up his ass. Kay Hutchinson. Charlie Crist. Haley Barbour...even some for Ridge, Thompson, and Jeb Bush..Palin was in the mix, but only in the same way as Jindal - rising star, but selection of either would raise concerns about McCain's health and erase his strongest case against Obama - experience. Of the two, Jindal was a Rhodes Scholar, a minority, 6 years in high executive experience, 2 in Congress, 1 1/2 years as Governor after the failed 2003 race. And Palin - mayor of a town of 5,000, a good-looking journalism graduate, 1 1/2 years as governor.

Palin was chosen after McCain was told there would be a convention walkout if he picked his beloved Joe Lieberman.

There was no Religious Right consensus on Palin as the "only" choice. Nor was McCain in a spot where he was to be dictated to when he could have made a superior choice and defended it. And just because the Fundies emotionally snapped up the red meat gobbet McCain threw them does not mean a dozen, even two dozen superior VP candidates were passed over on McCains last minute "hunch" would have been accepted and done better.

McCain was Marsha Clark, betting that Palin's gender would draw indpendents and Hillary PUMAs in. It never did, anymore than black women on the Juice Jury chose gender of the white bitch that stole OJ - over racial solidarity..

Dust Bunny Queen said...

wait...Night elf...masculine.. dammit! Ok so its not a Blood Elf you have to give me that. Go ahead, open my wrists ;-)


LOL!! Its ok. /hugs My main is a giant fugly tauren. War Stomp and disengage ftw

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