December 27, 2006

He told them they were losers for being there.

So they essentially told him he was a loser for being there.

[Bad link fixed. Sorry.]

ADDED: Some people are saying this picture is not what it purports to be, on the theory that the camera imprinted the wrong date. The best analysis appears to be that the camera didn't have the time properly set. If you think otherwise, you can comment here.

MORE: Michelle Malkin analyzes the photograph quite well and thinks it's authentic. I've been called a liar very conspicuously, on Daily Kos. When will I get my apology?

UP-UP-UPDATE:Oh, nooooo! I'm in the future!!!!

ANOTHER UPDATE: It looks as though there's a good explanation for why Kerry is sitting alone in the picture, so I'm sorry I made fun of him. The explanation does, however, refute the assertions that the picture was taken at a different time altogether, so the attack over on Daily Kos is still wrong. They really need to put up a retraction and an apology! I'm not going to apologize for the "in the future" post linked above, because that one is making fun of the bloggers who made up a defense of Kerry based on a timestamp they perceived on the picture. They are still wrong about that.

100 comments:

JohnK said...

I think that link is broke. It is the same one to the James Browm biopic post. Did you mean something else Ann?

Anonymous said...

JohnK: I bet this was the intended link

Ann Althouse said...

Sorry.

I meant the Powerline link but IR is right about the story and the photo.

Tim said...

John Kerry hanging with the troops is like a street-walking crack whore hanging with nuns.

Goesh said...

If he would have flashed his nonexistent battle wounds from Viet Nam, the lads may well have flocked around him in shock and awe...

tjl said...

The photo makes Kerry look like the friendless kid in high school who was shunned by all in the cafeteria. Judging by Kerry's adult personality, he probably WAS the friendless kid in prep school, shunned by all in the dining hall.

Derve said...

Thanks for putting up that link! I knew Scott Hennen's sister, Nan from ND, and with a few clicks was able to catch up online. Damn small world, but the name rang a bell...

Alpha Liberal said...

Judas Priest, are you people still flogging that dead horse?!

Kerry never called the troops stupid. He screwed up a dumb joke (as I believe Althouse has admitted elsewhere here). .

Unlike George Bush and Dick "I had more important things to do" Cheney, Rush "ass boil" Limbaugh and the rest of the neo-con chickenhawks, Kerry served his country in uniform and in harm's way.

Alpha Liberal said...

By the way, Althouse, you are a liar. this is false:
"He told them they were losers for being there."

tom faranda said...

Alpha Liberal.
Keep drinking the Kool Aid.

By the way, it's bad manners calling the host a liar. Where were you brought up?

Alpha Liberal said...

Tom faranda, do you find no offense in a lie?

Or do you think it is impolite to call attention to the lie?

Show me the quote where Kerry said the troops were losers for being there.

p.s. I note you can't ride to the Chickenhawks' defense.

Anonymous said...

Alpha Liberal

Of course it isn't true. It doesn't have to be. Don't you get it by now?

Alpha Liberal said...

Plus the idea that Ann cites a blog post from a right wing news site pretty much gives the lie to her claim to be a nonpartisan moderate.

tom faranda said...

Alpha Liberal

I have a firm rule to never match wits with an unarmed man - but I'll make an exception.

Kerry said, in not so many words, that they were too dumb for anything but the military.

If he simply flubbed a joke, why did it take him so long to apologize?

That's a rhetorical question, no need to explain - as this is the end of my witty repartee. See my first sentence -

Pogo said...

Re; "Show me the quote where Kerry said the troops were losers for being there."

Given the reaction by the soldiers to his arrival in Iraq, it appears their interpretation of his "joke" was less along your lines and more like he called them losers.

You can interpret the photo any way you want, but their response suggests you are wrong, and the soldiers in question don't buy his lame excuses anymore.

Todd and in Charge said...

For gosh sakes, Kerry made a bad joke, he didn't "call the troops losers." He was one, and fought valiantly and was awarded high honors by this country.

Should he have been surrounded by soldiers - would that have made a photo op like this more, or less, valid?

Anonymous said...

Alpha Liberal: Talk about beating a dead horse! Try looking in the mirror. Everyone who cares already knows what he said and what he meant. Mileage varies depending on viewpoint, as it all does and always will. Get over it.

As long as we're sticking to facts for a moment: he sure went a long way to basically dine alone. But, he went. Good for him. And those there let him know what they thought of him. Good for them.

Turning to opinion, I doubt he learned anything. People like him rarely do.

Todd: You can't be that naive. You know as well as everyone here that if he could get a good photo surrounded by smiling, preferably adoring, but gun-toting American troops it would be in the press by now. It may still show up.

Alpha Liberal said...

Pogo said:
"You can interpret the photo any way you want, but their response suggests you are wrong, and the soldiers in question don't buy his lame excuses anymore."

News flash: The troops are often used as political props with messages placed in their hands, in their mouths and on their ships.

Or do you honestly believe the troops made up that "Mission Accomplished" banner?

Gullible much?

David53 said...

Alpha is right. Kerry didn't call the troops losers.

What Kerry did say was, "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, ah you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq,"

That's much nicer isn't it?

Alpha Liberal said...

Tom,

Kerry took "so long" to apologize because it didn't merit an apology. It was a joke at George Bush's expense, not the troops. He apologized to fall on his sword for the candidates with elections.

You want me to drop it, yet have nothing to say about Althouse continuing to raise the issue, or Powerline, or the rtest of the right wing.

IR, the issue is dead for liberals to talk about but for con's and cons-posing-as-moderates it's a live issue.

As far as who was at the table with him, we just don't know. It's a tight framing, there's a guy across from him, etc.

Basically, this is just one more vacuous venting over more lies from the right wing, with Ann Althouse as lead liar. (You can't even back up the charge! Ha-ha!)

Alpha Liberal said...

Thanks for the honest assessment, David##.

Like I say, it was a dumb joke badly flubbed. It's pretty clear a politician in election season is not going to mock the troops in harms way, especially one who previously served in harms way. Just not a plausible idea.

So perhaps my case that Althouse is a liar makes more sense now?

Rove played the media like a fiddle.

Pogo said...

Re: "Should he have been surrounded by soldiers..."

Again, Todd and Alpha Liberal, you fail to grasp the obvious. From the photo and the blog posts about his visit, it is clear that the soldiers are shunning Kerry.

To the military guys, Kerry's 'botched joke' explanation is just a typical politician's bullshit. You can keep teling yourself that more comfortable tale if it makes you feel better, but there the man sits, utterly alone, eating his sad little meal.

Kerry's pathetic, and the "joke" excuse is too dumb for words. But not for you, it seems.

And are you seriously charging that the troops are being told not to appear with Kerry. Bullshit, man. For that kind of charge, you need more proof than the fact that you can type such idiotic words without laughing.

P.S. The charge of "liar" to disagreements was old and boring by the time Al Franken jumped in. It's continued use speaks of a lack of intellectual heft.

Anonymous said...

I doubt Bush meant certain legislation would prevent OB/GYN practitioners from having sex with their patients -- but I don't remember anyone asking him to clarify, or offer an apology.

If you want real class discrimination look no further than Bush's entry into the "Champagne Unit" at TXANG from a prominent family member -- where professional athletes, and politically connected young men sought refuge from a war already raging in the jungles. 101 Guardsmen total died in Vietnam, and yet Bush could even fufill his obligations there, not reporting for a physical, and getting grounded.

Why Vietnam Vets wouldn't be furious about this is puzzling.

Alpha Liberal said...

I see Althouse has taken to repeating more Republican fictions as truths:

"ADDED: A key question -- with an unknowable answer -- is: How many Americans would have died in post-9/11 attacks if we had not chosen the path of fighting back?"

You see, Ann, this is where you come in for harsh criticism from the left. When you falsely portry yourself as a moderate and conitnue to parrot and propagate right wing myths.

New flash to Althouse: Iraq did not attack the US on 9/11. Most of the attackers (and their money) were from Saudi Arabia, which suffered NO retribution for attacking us. Indeed, they were given preferential treatment in the immediate wake of 9/11.

Feh!

Pogo said...

So Alpha Liberal, should we invade Saudi Arabia? When? Got Dem support for that?

Face it, Kerry looks like a loser in Iraq after his "joke". The soldiers aren't his buddies there, and you can't spin this one away. He looks like an idiot. A very lonely isolated idiot. So you change the subject here to talk about all sorts of unrelated stuff because the turth is too embarrassing.

And by God, that photo is embarrassing. How ridiculous and small he appears.

Alpha Liberal said...

Pogo,

You have ignored my post which addresses your arguments. I will narrow it down for you:

"What plausible reason would a politician have for insulting the troops in harm's way in the middle of the campaign season?"

Your allegation makes no sense. It was clearly a Kerry flub (and not the first!)

And, again, I doubt the troops made that banner anymore than the troops on the USS Abraham Lincoln made that one (as the Bush White House alleged).

Alpha Liberal said...

Nicely said:

"I doubt Bush meant certain legislation would prevent OB/GYN practitioners from having sex with their patients -- but I don't remember anyone asking him to clarify, or offer an apology."

For people who are so busy apologizing for Bush's many gaffes, righties (including Althouse in that) are very unforgiving about Kerry's flub.

Alpha Liberal said...

Pogo,

No, I'm not in favor of invading Saudi Arabia. Nor am I in favor of the bush-cheney approach to defend the Saudi's, hide their role, and, figuratively speaking, licking their sandals.

Other options besides bombing and invading are available with hostile states.

Pogo said...

Re: "It was clearly a Kerry flub (and not the first!)"

It was clear to you, but not to the soldiers. I'm certain you would have sat with him. But then, he's in irak so he can halp those poor ignurent GIs. You know, the ones crowding around him, slapping him on the back, asking for his autograph. Just feel the love pouring forth from that photo.

The man's a goddamned human magnet. One that only repels, it seems, but a magnet he is.

Re: "Other options besides bombing and invading are available with hostile states. "
Like paying the danegeld. That always works.

Ann Althouse said...

I've heard the attempts at putting a decent interpretation on Kerry's remark. I thought it was flatly unbelievable. I stand by that. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I'm certainly not lying.

Anonymous said...

Alpha Liberal wrote: "Kerry never called the troops stupid. He screwed up a dumb joke (as I believe Althouse has admitted elsewhere here)."

Same dumb joke he told in 1972. You would think he would, you know, mature a little in his views of the changing world.

My point is that it matters little what we think, it matters most what the agrieved think! And in this case, they are heavily armed!

Trey

jakemanjack said...

John Kerry spent 4 months and 12 days in Vietnam, he abandoned his men and slandered them back home with that uber left-wing idiot Jane Fonda.

Time sometimes bears sweet justice.

oh and John McCain is a REAL war hero. Kerry, who still refuses to release his medical records (because he more than likely faked is injuries to get out of Vietnam early) is not a war hero. He's a coward and an opportunist. oh - and anyone who hangs out with Jane Fonda is a leftist and a traitor – by definition.

Botched Joke my A$$.

John Kerry knew what he was saying. Funny how democrats constantly run down our troops, their efforts, and the troop’s commander and chief, then expect some sort of respect in return. Payback is sweet.

Tim said...

Wow. An awful lot of chatter for a guy whose career is essentially over.

Unless, of course, you suffer from Kerry's delusion he still has something to contribute...

And of course everyone knows the guy who accused his fellow soldiers of mass war crimes also thinks the least of us are serving in uniform in Iraq, "botched joke" or not.

David53 said...

"Face it, Kerry looks like a loser in Iraq after his "joke". The soldiers aren't his buddies there, and you can't spin this one away. He looks like an idiot. A very lonely isolated idiot."

You hit the nail on the head Pogo. I enjoy watching the Kerry apologists squirm as they attempt to change the subect.

Tim said...

"Kerry, who still refuses to release his medical records (because he more than likely faked is injuries to get out of Vietnam early) is not a war hero."

No worries. Dan Rather, Mary Mapes and all the resources of CBS News are on top of that story. They'll let us know what the deal is just as soon as some loon mails in the original documents from a Kinko's in some nondescript strip mall in some nondescript small town in some nondescript small rural state... You won't be able to miss it.

paul a'barge said...

What plausible reason would a politician have for insulting the troops in harm's way in the middle of the campaign season

Well, for openers he's a politician, which means that he's automatically susceptible to the political variant of Turette's Syndrome.

Finally, Kerry has an over 30 year track record of insulting our troops, from Viet Nam to Iraq. No one is ever going to believe he would have the moral astuteness to make that slander a joke about the President.

Well, except for DHIMMIcRATs, who will believe anything as long as they can wash it down with koolaid.

Alpha Liberal said...

"oh and John McCain is a REAL war hero."

Really? Don't you know they were saying back in 2000 that John McCain was, basically, a traitor who betrayed other POWs? (some of the same people who smeared Kerry).

That's right. That's the line used against McCain in the 2000 primary, by the Bush-Rove machine.

Seeing how much you guys bought the line against Kerry, there's really no sejnse trying to reaons with you. You hate Democrats and that's all there is to it.

I'll note no-one has addressed the question of why a major pol would mock the troops in campaign season. (beyond the non-credible Turette's thing).

To answer the question of why I care that Kerry is attacked with lies and such, is because it is done time and again to any Democrat who rises to power.

Alpha Liberal said...

So, by the same standard applied to Kerry, I suppose all the wingers here (that includes you, Ann) fnd these quotes to be 100% truthfuland accurete and to be taken at face value. They are all quotes from Your Leader, Dubya:

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror."—Interview with CBS News, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2006

"You took an oath to defend our flag and our freedom, and you kept that oath underseas and under fire."—Addressing war veterans, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2006

"We're spending money on clean coal technology. Do you realize we've got 250 million years of coal?"—Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005

"After all, Europe is America's closest ally."—Mainz, Germany, Feb. 23, 2005

"I want to thank my friend, Sen. Bill Frist, for joining us today. … He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. (Laughter.) Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me."—Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004

Pogo said...

Re: "I'll note no-one has addressed the question of why a major pol would mock the troops in campaign season."

The sad and simple truth is that Kerry is a poor politician. He's unlikeable, and has a long history of anti-military pronouncements. He thinks himself a bright guy, but he can't seem to keep his foot out of his mouth.

"Why" he would insult the troops is a pointless question, really. It presupposes that since it would be political suicide to do so, no one running for office would ever commit such an error, and thus it didn't happen. But that's a silly argument.

No matter; he said what he said. It was received as an insult by soldiers. Now he sits alone at a mess hall in Iraq. I'm no genius, but I can connect those dots.

And P.S. Bush's gaffes above are against himself, not directed at others.

Sanjay said...

Alpha Lib, I'm real real conflicted about Kerry. But look, Phil Carter is a decent-sounding guy, he voted Kerry, people will fairly think you're a nut if you try to tell me he's part of some right-wing slime machine. And his reaction to Kerry's comment, was this. That would be a pretty fair link for Professor A. to use, no?

PatCA said...

I personally think Kerry was making a joke about W but made a classic Freudian slip and called the troops stupid...because he thinks they are indeed stupid or plain old evil. Instead of taking his medicine like a man, he whined a lot, and so gets what he deserves.

It was the rest of his party, like Rangel, that calls the troops stupid losers on purpose.

Alpha Liberal said...

Sanjay, good link. I agree with most of the post and think the Kerry flub was an attempt at a joke by a guy who is not really a good joke teller, and proved it.

He should leave the humor to the professionals.

Paolo said...

"The sad and simple truth is that Kerry is a poor politician.

Right... he's been a United States Senator since 1985, because he's a crappy politician.

He's unlikeable, and has a long history of anti-military pronouncements."

First clause sounds like an opinion to me, which you're welcome to (I don't like the man much, either). Second clause sounds an awful lot like something you pulled it out of your butt. Care to point to even ONE "anti-military pronouncement?"

tom faranda said...

Alpha Liberal,

know who's telling lies. You claim Bush said McCain was a traitor in the 2000 election.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid.

tjl said...

"he's been a United States Senator since 1985, because he's a crappy politician."

Kerry has been a U.S. Senator since 1985 because he has the good luck to represent Massachusetts, a one-party state which resembles certain 3d-world countries in having officeholders-for-life. Exhibit A is that fossil, Ted Kennedy. Exhibit B is Barney Frank.

In a normally competitive political environment, the voters would long since have retired Kerry to that solitary table his personality has earned him.

dave said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

PatCa you're a liar.

When did Rangel or anyone else in the Democratic Party say anything like the troops are stupid, or losers?

The facts show the Democrats support the troops much much better than the Republicans that can't wait to axe troop benefits and troop health coverage.

In fact, it is the cry of the Chicken Hawk like Cheney and 3/4s of the conservatard bloggers that they had better things to do than join the military.

And the proof of all of this is the 55 Fighting Dems Challengers that ran this year. 6 of them beat the incumbents. Not bad for a group of political novices.

Not a single fighting Republican challenger won.

So liars, if the Dems are so horrible to the troops, why are the troops becoming, running as, and winning as Dems?

Chum said...

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/061216/ids
_photos_wl/r833501998.jpg

The US embassy has a Union Jack on the wall? The above photo at Basrah Air Station doesn't look as if he's being ignored. What a crock you repeat sometimes.

Elizabeth said...

Yeah, what's up with the Union Jack at a "U.S. Embassy"? There aren't any U.S. flags visible, but the decorations also have the Union Jack motif. The blog this comes from quotes someone as saying they went to a Kerry press conference with a camera, but no one showed and Kerry's aides got him out of the room "before [he] could take a picture." How long does it take to click a picture or two? I think this is bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Ann, you're the photog. Can you tell everyone here what EXIF data is?

And then, when you examine the photograph, what does the EXIF data say about the date this picture was taken?

Hat tip to a somewhat popular blogger.

So what we have is Ann Althouse spreading lies and disinformation about anyone she doesn't like (later on she will once again call herself a moderate and play the victim when Democrats call her on her nonsense.)

Pogo said...

How mysterious, reality check. So, where's the beef? Cough up. Quit being vague and show us your hand. Out the pic as false if you have actual facts rather than this innuendo. Why so shy all of a sudden?

jakemanjack said...

Yeah it's all lies lies lies!
If a lefty progressive doesn't want something to be true, it just can't be true!

"On Saturday night, a colleague emailed me and told me to bring my camera, as Senator Kerry was scheduled to give a press conference here in the Palace. At 2100, he entered a conference room wearing his leather flight jacket. Unfortunately, there was no media there, except for the enlisted soldiers from AFTN (Armed Forces Television Network) who had to be there. His aide looked around, saw that this just wasn't happening, and quickly escorted Kerry out before I could take a picture.

Finally, the next morning, Senator Kerry ate chow at the Dining Facility. Normally when a Senator/Representative visits, he is joined by a contingent of soldiers/Marines/airmen from his home state. Despite the fact that the MP unit responsible for Green Zone security is an Army Reserve unit from Massachusetts, not a single soldier went to sit with him. (By contrast, Bill O'Reilly, host of that terrible shoutfest on Fox, had over 400 soldiers waiting in line to meet him on Saturday.)"


But then everyone knows those stupid peasant neo-con military personnel are all liars!
How dare they not gather around and worship the holy liberal senator whose presence should have brought everyone to their knees.

Abraham said...

PatCa you're a liar...When did Rangel or anyone else in the Democratic Party say anything like the troops are stupid, or losers?

"If a young fellow has an option of having a decent career, or joining the Army to fight in Iraq, you can bet your life that he would not be in Iraq," Mr. Rangel, a Democrat representing Manhattan and Queens, said on "Fox News Sunday."

"If there's anyone who believes these youngsters want to fight, as the Pentagon and some generals have said, you can just forget about it. No bright young individual wants to fight just because of a bonus and just because of educational benefits. And most all of them come from communities of very, very high unemployment," the congressman said.

http://www.nysun.com/article/44138

You are lower than a liar - you are a false accuser. Anxiously awaiting your apology.

Alpha Liberal said...

Ann ALthouse has posted a false accusation against Senator Kerry. Take a look at the photo of the mess hall. Look at the data for the photo showing when it was taken.

The photo was taken on January 9, 2006. This whole thing is a hoax and a lie. And Althouse is spreading it.

Abraham said...

The photo was taken on January 9, 2006.

That's amazing, considering that particular camera model wasn't even released until February 2006.

Clearly, it's impossible that the batteries were ever removed and the date/time not properly reset. Therefore, I would like to congratulate the photographer for his/her discovery of time travel, and implore him/her to let us all in on the secret.

Pogo said...

Alpha, my man, you credulous lump you. Just keep telling yourself John Kerry is a loved, loved man by the military.
Loved!
Grunts just crawling around him, anxious to shake his hand. Hence all the Kerry photos surrounded by beaming soldiers.

Don't be shy, man. Post those love fest pics. I'm anxious to bask in that JFK glow once again.

Paco Wové said...

Look at the data for the photo showing when it was taken.

Where? Where is this precious data about this earth-shattering, world-shapingly important topic?

Shanna said...

If you want real class discrimination look no further than Bush's entry into the "Champagne Unit" at TXANG from a prominent family member …Why Vietnam Vets wouldn't be furious about this is puzzling.

Well it could be because Bush had the good sense not to run on his service in Vietnam. It could be that going into the guard if you could was not dishonorable, and that many, many people without any particular family connections did the exact same thing. It could be because Bush didn’t accuse Vietnam Vets of war crimes.

But those are just a few reasons…

And by God, that photo is embarrassing.

It almost makes you feel sorry for the guy.

For people who are so busy apologizing for Bush's many gaffes, righties (including Althouse in that) are very unforgiving about Kerry's flub.
The reason for this was discussed ad nauseum at the time but I will repeat it since you have apparently forgotten. Kerry’s gaffe looked way too much like someone accidentally speaking what he really thinks. “Same dumb joke he told in 1972.” Bingo. No amount of obviously harmless misspoken words from Bush will cause the same effect. Because he doesn’t mean them and nobody thinks he does. He just misspoke. It happens to all of us.

Alpha Liberal said...

Pogo, who are you talking to? Me or your favorite strawman? Because I never said what yuo say I said. Typical!

When batteries are left out of cameras long enough, the date is typically set to 1-1-2000. That's my experience.

The Vivicam 8400 was not on the market then, as Abraham notes. So, I can't explain the date conflict now. There could be several explanations.

Der Hahn said...

While this doesn't prove the photo authentic (the flag does look odd), the 1/6/2006 date doesn't jib with this press release concerning a Kerry trip to the Mid-East starting January 10th, 2006. He wasn't scheduled to be in Iraq until January 18th, 2006.

Der Hahn said...

Make that 1/9/2006.... still nine days before Kerry was scheduled to be in Iraq.

Anonymous said...

That doesn't say they are stupid or losers. That says they come from communities of very high unemployment.

What is it about YOU that thinks that being from such a community must mean a person is stupid or a loser?

Anonymous said...

I don't know how many people set their camera's dates or not, I suspect most people do, you suspect they don't.

The point is we don't know when or where this photo was taken. January? December? US Embassy? British Airbase?

We don't know the context. How many chairs were empty in the hall? How many troopers were actually there? What time of day is it?

We don't know anything about this photo but that doesn't stop the fine professor here from believing and repeating any piece of random crap that favors her position.

Same thing about the word "losers."

Kerry never called them stupid or losers. Rangel never called the troops stupid or losers. Rangel said they didn't have many opportunities and that if they did have more opportunities.

And look at all the chicken hawk bloggers and chicken hawk young college republicans starting from Cheney and including Jonah Goldberg that have said exactly that same thing.

Cheney: I had better things to do.
Goldberg: I'm 35 years old, my family couldn't afford the lost income, and I have a baby daughter.

Cory Bray, a towering senior from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business, the beer was flowing freely. "The people opposed to the war aren't putting their asses on the line," Bray boomed from beside the bar. Then why isn't he putting his ass on the line? "I'm not putting my ass on the line because I had the opportunity to go to the number-one business school in the country," he declared, his voice rising in defensive anger, "and I wasn't going to pass that up."

Ann Althouse said...

I'm just seeing now that there is an issue of when the photograph was taken based on a date stamped in the camera somewhere. I didn't see it before. I think the eyewitness testimony that Kerry was there and that this photograph was taken on a particular date is more believable than a setting someone happens to have in what I think is an amateur camera. I'll correct this if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, Alpha Liberal's vicious writing about me is shameful and devious. What a creepy little man/woman!

Abraham said...

That doesn't say they are stupid or losers.

If you CAN'T get a job, if you have NO alternative, then yes, you are a stupid loser. Even stupid losers can get entry-level jobs. It's so insulting to the troops not only because it implies that they are incapable of getting a regular job, but because that's so egregiously wrong. Many soldiers take huge pay cuts as compared to what they could or do earn in the private sector. As a bonus, Rangel's remarks appear to presume that pay and bonuses are the only reason anybody would join in the first place. Duty, honor, and patriotism seem to be unfamiliar concepts.

The fact is that the vast majority of military personnel are in the military because they wanted to be in the military. To condescendingly tell them that they are only there because they had no other prospects is as good as literally calling them "stupid losers."

Pogo said...

And here's the same setting, different pose, bigger photo, on benofmesopotamia.blogspot.com.

It's even better, with JFKerry, lonely, looking like he's wondering if that little red-haired girl might actually come sit next to him, but she doesn't.

"Finally, the next morning, Senator Kerry ate chow at the Dining Facility. Normally when a Senator/Representative visits, he is joined by a contingent of soldiers/Marines/airmen from his home state. Despite the fact that the MP unit responsible for Green Zone security is an Army Reserve unit from Massachusetts, not a single soldier went to sit with him."

Anonymous said...

Here's anotherfriend of a friend eyewitness report from the powerline forum:

This article is half the truth. My friend told me more details and was there.

Kerry apparently showed up during the last 10 minutes of when the chow hall was open. So there were not so many people there to begin with. Additionallly he had a crowd of security surrounding him and I dont believe his intentions in that chow hall were to greet the troops based upon the real facts. Additionally the military folks in the mess hall would not have felt comfortable approaching him in these surroundings. That doesn’t necessarily paint the picture in the article.

Finally - this is typical treatment for famous people there.


Professor, I'm just curious, do you find your groupies to be more smart or less smart than your students? I'd have to guess that you find them to be smarter than your students, otherwise, why would you want to hang around them?

totally said...

Ann Althouse said...
I've heard the attempts at putting a decent interpretation on Kerry's remark. I thought it was flatly unbelievable. I stand by that. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I'm certainly not lying.

Of course your a lier. Misrepresenting the truth and leaving out key information is nothing more than a deliberate lie.

Face facts - you cannot handle the truth.

Pogo said...

reality man, you conveniently skipped the reponse below the one you selected from powerline:

"Actually your version isn’t typical treatment for famous people who try to visit the troops. When a ‘famous’ person visits, the military leadership will always look for troops to sit down and talk with the visitor; normally during chow. As for Senators and congressmen/women, the leadership, for what I experience on four different bases, will look for troops who live in the elected official’s district so they are able to socialize with their elected officials.

Additionally, for someone as important as Kerry, the dining facility would have remained open and, if there were selected troops, they and Kerry would have eaten their dinner late despite the time the facility was due to close.

Either Kerry was snubbed or he was snubbing the troops. Which is it? "

Pogo said...

Hey, totally is lying.
He spelled it "lier". Brownshirt sheeple!
U kan't handel the truthe!

Ann Althouse said...

Why are blogosphere lefties so obsessed with who's smart? It's embarrassing, you know. Say something smart. Don't talk about who's smart and who's not. And then there's the endless expression of envy because some people have better jobs than they do. If you want to argue with me, argue with me, but the endless whining about the fact that I have tenure is soooo pathetic. I don't use my position to bolster my arguments. So quit your whining. And get a job.

Anyway, Daily Kos owes me a big apology for calling me a liar.

Sanjay said...

It's not hardly the biggest apology Kos' site owes you. Hey, look, lay off the lefties: you recently did a nice post about how you are a lefty. So'm I, although I'll give you I'm not smart. Try "blogosphere rapid partisans." Or, if that's too long, just try "fools."

Todd and in Charge said...

IR - my point was it is a meaningless photo op if he was surrounded by adoring troops (ala Bush's turkey delivery a few years back) and it's a likewise meaningless photo, suggestive of nothing, when he appears surrounded by only a few troops.

Reading any more into it validates Ann's point that bloggers mostly take whatever news happens that day, then simply restate their already well-known point of view in connection with that event. But that's entertainment, I guess.

Richard Fagin said...

Tim:

Please don't insult street walking crack whores by comparing them to John Kerry. At least the whores work for a living.

I trust real Nazis found Rush's "feminazi" tag similarly insulting.

AJ Lynch said...

In defense of John F. Kerry, Alpha Liberal asked why Ann was ..
"Judas Priest, are you people still flogging that dead horse?!"

I ask Alpha Liberal why libs still go nuts trying to prop up that dead horse?

And perhaps Althouse has helped the commenters find some common ground.

Anonymous said...

I don't use my position to bolster my arguments.

Of course you do. Without your tenured professor position, you would not be getting your op-eds published and you would not be invited onto radio shows and frankly no one would have ever heard of you.

And while you may not be saying:

P: I am a law professor
Q: John Kerry is a loser
P=>Q
QED

You certainly say:
P: "Laypeople consuming early news reports may well have thought...."
Q: Judge Taylor is an activist judge
P=>Q
QED

In fact you waive your professorship up and down to get you access and to provide credibility. So don't be so disingenuous, remember this is the Internet and we are here to fact check your ass

Your comment about who is smart falls flat too. All this blog and your commenters are about is how dumb lefties are in general, in Madison in particular, and therefore by your own logic how stupid your own students at your Lefty University must be as well.

You constantly pick dickfights, and you constantly post dubiously sourced material about people that you dislike. And then you claim you are above all of that.

Elizabeth said...

It's even better, with JFKerry, lonely, looking like he's wondering if that little red-haired girl might actually come sit next to him, but she doesn't.

It looks to me like he's sitting with a couple of people eating and talking. Malkin's photo analysis seems fair, but the whole "Lonely Kerry" spin on this from the right is silly, and downright juvenile. He's clearly not alone in the photo, nor in other photos from the same trip. The reaction from the Kos side is likewise offensive and over the top. Sometimes political blogging reminds me a whole lot of junior high.

Gerry said...

"Why are blogosphere lefties so obsessed with who's smart?"

Envy.

Pogo said...

Re: "Sometimes political blogging reminds me a whole lot of junior high."

Dead on, Elizabeth, and guilty as charged.

Was I substantive? No.
But damn, it was fun. Like piling on in "kill the man" on the playground.

My inner 12-year-old remains an untamed and gutless beast. Nevertheless, on some days, I actually act my stated age!

Der Hahn said...

MM has posted a photo of the Baghdahd Embassy mess hall where the photo of Kerry was apparently taken that might explain the non-US flags on the wall. A photo taken at Thanksgiving, 2006 shows the ceiling and walls decorated with many national flags.

David said...

The U.S. military is run by a civilian so the use of "Chickenhawk" is nonsense. The Commander-In-Chief is a civilian who may or may not have military experience. Calling him a chickenhawk is nonsense and is an ad hominem attack.

Say what you will about George Bush but the military doesn't hand over the keys to a fighter jet to anyone.

Kerry is an arrogant caricature of himself. He is always touting his superior intellect and yet has trouble telling a joke regarding the military. One would think that after the winter soldier debacle he would have learned to avoid walking in oratorical minefields by now. Given his supposed military training he would have learned to avoid minefields period.

The military does like John Kerry. The military does not like left-wing democrats. The military does not like people who support the military but oppose the mission.

Delude yourself Alpha Liberal if you will. It does not change the fact that Kerry was snubbed for good reason in Iraq.

Because Kerry turned on his comrades he has been shunned as has John Murtha. They lost sight of Duty, Honor, Country! They perverted those noble words to opportunity, selfishness, ambition.

The photo stands!

Speaking of photos. What seperates this thread from the controversy involving the AP photos is we talk about them here whereas the AP stonewalls.

David said...

Correction:
The military does NOT like John Kerry!

Daryl Herbert said...

It's amazing how rabidly enthusiastic these idiot lefties are to debunk this particular photo, but they believed absolutely, wholeheartedly in the genuineness of the Rather forgeries, the Photoshopped and staged images coming out of Lebanon, etc.

To say they are "skeptical" of this photo is nonsense, because they have not exercised any skepticism in seizing upon any "evidence" that the photo might not show what Ann purported it to show. (you can't be a true skeptic unless your skepticism goes both ways)

ASX said...

C'mon. Who can really convince themselves that John Kerry would stick a random, out of context, and nasty attack on the troops in the middle of a series of jokes at the beginning of the speech?

I always figured that except for a few poorly informed people, everyone realized that Kerry was joking -- including all of those who pretend he was talking about the troops.

But I've read Ann's posts about Kerry's remark, and I take her at face value: She really, honestly believes Kerry was insulting the troops.

Even Bill O'Reilly acknowledges that it is simply not credible to believe that Kerry would be so dumb as to insult the troops.

But Ann illustrates that emotions affect interpretation; Ann loaths Kerry so completely that she comes to a conclusion that simply makes no sense.

ASX said...

Regarding the photo of Kerry in Iraq.

Isn't it intellectually dishonest to not at least acknowledge the possible alternative explanations?

Maybe he had just sat down, and the others were still getting their food.

Maybe the party had finished eating, and other people had gotten up and left.

Maybe it was a private meeting between Kerry and only a couple of other people.

The fact that people who want to be taken seriously are pretending that they know exactly what this picture indicates shows that they are less concerned with intellectual integrity and more concerned with cheap shots at Kerry which lack a solid factual basis.

But what else is new.

Pogo said...

Re: "...it is simply not credible to believe that Kerry would be so dumb as to insult the troops"

I don't think you know what "credible" means. Kerry is disliked by military folks for many things, and this 'joke' is part of his legacy.

It's the Mel Gibson problem. The loosed tongue mistakenly speaks the truth, and there's no childhood "take-backs" allowed.

And calling people who take his words at face value credulous or emotional doesn't advance his case any, it digs the hole even deeper. "Not only are soldiers in Irak losers, they're irrational and overly-emotional!" See how attractive that sounds?

And all he had to say was, "Man. I screwed that one up. My bad." And it would have been largely forgotten. This way, it remains a wound that is easily reopened, every time he speaks, and even when he just shows up.

Who can convince themselves that Kerry would stick a nasty attack on the troops in the middle of a speech?
Me. And alot of other people. Your judgement is that makes me stupid. My answer is that that makes him unelectable. Who has the larger problem?

PatCA said...

reality check,
I hope you're having fun hurling invective because you're losing every argument you put forth with your silly histrionics.

Ann gets op-eds published because her blog is well written and thought out and attracts lots of readers--the kind of readers the dying print outlets would love to poach.

(And thank you, Abraham, for doing the hard work on my line of thought.)

Buddy Larsen said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chum said...

'And all he had to say was, "Man. I screwed that one up. My bad." '

Words to live by, Pogo. Anyone who can do this with the goofy stuff that they completely buggered up in the heat of the moment is usually forgiven. Most people understand the humanity of the situation and how they themselves have made mistakes that they wish they could have instantly taken back. My guess is once a person has 'handlers' and a PR team it become more difficult to speak from the heart.

Someday someone will come along who won't be bothered about admitting the stupid gaffes, and that person will become President.

Chum said...

Elizabeth said,
'It looks to me like he's sitting with a couple of people eating and talking. Malkin's photo analysis seems fair, but the whole "Lonely Kerry" spin on this from the right is silly, and downright juvenile. He's clearly not alone in the photo, nor in other photos from the same trip.'

Yes, silly and the reason for my immediate reaction. The original poster and picture taker making statements not backed up in his/her own photo and Althouse and a dozen others running with it, gleeful and smirking a la 'Mean Girls'. I feel the same way whoever has been singled out for ridicule whatever their political position.

Charles Giacometti said...

For the record, this veteran admires Kerry, McCain, Webb, Hagel, and all the other people who actually fought in Vietnam. And I loathe people like Bush and Quayle who used their connections to find a safe spot in the National Guard, or Cheney and Clinton who simply weaseled their way out of service.

The interpretation of the picture is just that. Rabid partisans like Althouse see what they want to see.

I do have a question though. How many times does "paul a'barge" orgasm each time he types the word "DHIMMIcRATs"?

Anonymous said...

Alpha Liberal said "...It's pretty clear a politician in election season is not going to mock the troops in harms way, especially one who previously served in harms way. Just not a plausible idea."

Unless you happen to live in Massachussets. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like there is so little interest in ROTC programs in Mass that MIT, Boston College, Harvard, and Tufts have to pool their students to field a detachment. I understand that ROTC has not been offered on the Harvard campus since 1969.

I was unable to find evidence of an ROTC program at Wellesley, Babson, Smith College, Amherst, or Mount Holyoke.

Nope, if you're in Massachusetts, it's pretty safe to beat up on the military.

Mortimer Brezny said...

So don't be so disingenuous, remember this is the Internet and we are here to fact check your ass

No offense, but I clicked on this misleading link expecting to see at the very least a picture of Ann beside a donkey.

hdhouse said...

Charles Giacometti said...
"The interpretation of the picture is just that. Rabid partisans like Althouse see what they want to see."

Precisely. Althouse regularly censors comments on her blog (fair and balanced annie we call her). As to "rabid" - that may be a bit extreme (almost said "bite" extreme) but the fact that ms. closedmind resorts to Michelle Malkin as a proof-source should make everyone on the planet shutter. Now that one is definitely testing positive.

The real deal here is that for the time of snapping a photo someone caught Kerry somewhere talking to one person (opposite) and around that these neocon slugs spun a story. If I took a picture of Annie Moonbeam coming out of a restroom would I or could I assume that she spends her entire day peeing? Could it be she OCD's to every sink she can find to wash up? Maybe she shook Bill O'Really?'s hand somewhere and he invited her into the restroom for a little "stall-chat"..I hear he is good at that...sure would explain the long lines cited in one of the "proofs" of his popularity...gosh Bill-0 had sex (phone or not) with Anthrax Annie...what a man, let me shake your hand" (you did wash it after didn't you?).

The extreme right of this country is so scared about hearings, mindlessly backing president moron, and a host of crap just waiting to hit the fan that they are tripping over themselves to hack at Senator Kerry in a dubious setting with a fairytale caption.

Can it be that the right wing in this country is sitting alone at some table..left behind by reason and purpose that they clearly never had?

Michelle Malkin my ass. (can we say hi to the Antrax Annies - Coulter and Althouse)

hdhouse said...

Daryl Herbert said...
It's amazing how rabidly enthusiastic these idiot lefties are to debunk this particular photo, but they believed absolutely, wholeheartedly in the genuineness of the Rather forgeries, the Photoshopped and staged images coming out of Lebanon, etc.

(you can't be a true skeptic unless your skepticism goes both ways)"

Should I be skeptical over:

WMD's
The Cheney Energy Policy
No Child Left Behind
Mission Accomplished
The Next 6 Months
Last throes
The Next 6 Months
I'm a War President
The Next 6 Months
Deficits
More Deficits
Let's build a fence
Let's go to Mars
Let's reform Social Security
The Next 6 Months
Rumsfeld is the man
We need a fresh set of ideas
If the Generals want more troops they will get them, but they don't need them.
Let's send more troops.
We don't want them.
Let's send more troops.
The Next 6 months.

Elizabeth said...

How many times does "paul a'barge" orgasm each time he types the word "DHIMMIcRATs"

hahahahahah. Thanks for the laugh, charles. I wish I could rememer if he's the same guy who, with no sense of humor whatsoever, types "fliberals" as if it's supposed to mean something.

Anonymous said...

Alpha Liberal and Todd and in Charge,

“…Kerry served his country in uniform and in harm's way.” “He was one, and fought valiantly and was awarded high honors by this country.”

I sincerely do not mean to be rude here but...HOGWASH!!! Maybe you folks would like to debunk the picture taken of Kerry hobnobbing with the enemy that hangs in the Vietnamese War Museum. Why is it such a surprise that the American military would have little of no respect for Kerry?

Alpha Liberal said...

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=5019

Alpha Liberal said...

Also, given that Kerry was meeting with the NY Times Baghdad bureau chief when the picture was taken, perhaps the troops were shunning the NYT.

Just a thought.

Again, Ann owes an apology to Senator Kerry for propagating a baseless attack on him.

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