September 5, 2006

"Flee sexual immorality!"

There were no political demonstrations that I could see as I walked through Library Mall here on the University of Wisconsin campus at noon today, the first day of fall classes. But there were some religionists trying to get the students' attention:

A religious vigil

Something about leaning on an "America a Nation of Sexual Perverts" sign makes people want to cut a wide swath around you:

A religious vigil

Oh, the snubbing! Does it hurt? Do you feel righteous? Sad? Angry? Resigned?

A religious vigil

I passed by quickly, on my way to pick up an extra-large cappucino to-go to make do for lunch before my Religion & the Constitution class. On my way back, I saw one of the sign-holder guys had turned to street preaching. From a distance, I could hear him exclaiming about "the fires of Hell." Then:
A friend of mine told me this town is the Capital of Lesbianism. The Capital of Lesbianism! What a shame!
I burst out laughing, as did pretty much everyone in the general vicinity.

103 comments:

hdhouse said...

I was trying to see the cite on the poster that started "in the beginning god..."

oh please help me.

Jeremy said...

I'm never sure what these folks are trying to accomplish. I suspect that they fancy themselves modern day prophets in the vein of Amos or Jeremiah. But even those men knew that they were given a very specific message to deliver to a very specific group of people. I don't think that this pleases God very much

Jennifer said...

Nobody's fleeing. That's weird.

Doug said...

If these people want to turn others off to sex, they should keep some of those hot women out of the protest area.

Seeing the blond with the big purse and the dark haired woman with the bags is hardly going to get me to flee immoral thoughts.

Ann Althouse said...

Doug: I maybe waited two seconds to get a nice composition and took about five shots in about 30 seconds as I hurried by. So it wasn't as if I waited for beautiful women to appear next to the signs. This is midday in Madison, you know, the Capital of Lesbianism.

Jake said...

If you had not shown their pictures, I would have thought they were Muslims. Those signs fits the Muslim line to a T.

Seven Machos said...

The juxtaposition in the photos with the cows is really cool.

Fenrisulven said...

LOL. Silly bunch of protestors.

But note that Ann escaped with her head still attached.

Dave said...

Sex is death!

Ann Althouse said...

Fenrisulven said..."LOL. Silly bunch of protestors. But note that Ann escaped with her head still attached"

Me? What makes you think I don't flee sexual immorality and respect my purity?

Meade said...

"Capital of Lesbianism"

It's all those cows. Domesticated cows mount each other when in heat.

No bull.

Johnny Nucleo said...

Capital of Lesbianism?! I moving to Madison!

Too Many Jims said...

The visual would have been better if there was an actual golden cow (idol) in the background.

Fenrisulven said...

Nah, I was just thinking of a mirror image protest in Islamabad, Pakistan [the female professor was stoned to death for revealing too much ankle] and found it ironic.

stephenb said...

hdhouse: It's Mark 10:6-8.

GPE said...

Oh.

My.

God.

You've got the same mad cow infestation we have here in Denver. I posted about it here last week.

MadisonMan said...

The east side is the Capitol of Lesbianism. They're preaching in the wrong part of town!

MadisonMan said...

And by the way, I have to ask: what are those two guys doing behind that sign decrying masturbation?! I can't see both of their hands!

Doug said...

I haven't been on a college campus in years, I forgot about all the beautiful women.

Capital of Lesbianism and hot women? No wonder Madison gets ranked so highly in Money Magazine every year.

Ruth Anne Adams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
downtownlad said...

What a bunch of morons. As the junior Senator from Oklahoma, Tom Coburn will tell you, it's OKLAHOMA that's the capital of lesbianism.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/20162/

hdhouse said...

Frankly I wasn't aware that there was a capital. How interesting. Droll even.

Is this demonstration proof that there may well be too much cheese in Wisconsin?

To tell the truth the photos give me the willies.

"thou shalt not pee in the lake". Hezakiah 5-3 (top of the 9th).

Elizabeth said...

I'm surprised they feel comfortable surrounded by Golden Calves.

Jeff said...

eh, I remember these kinds of protesters way back in the early 80's at Wichita State. I think there must be some sort of circuit.

somefeller said...

There was a fire-and-brimstone preacher who would come on campus and put on a show when I attended the University of Texas, much to the delight of the assembled crowds. One time, I was walking past him and he screamed at me, "you, you are a filthy little masturbator!"

I was like, how did you know?

Theo Boehm said...

Yep, sex is death. Here's the proof:

"...To see, to hear,
to touch, to kiss,
to die with thee again
in sweetest sympathy...."


—John Dowland, First Booke of Ayres, 1613

Pogo said...

The Capital of Lesbianism?
Heckfire, and I've never even got to meet my local state representative.

When's the next Lesbian election?
Who should I vote for?
Or against?

Sebastian said...

Am I the only one who thinks the first picture looks like CGI? I realize it's not. Perhaps it is the various colorful cow sculptures, but when I first saw it, I really thought it was a computer generated image.

Seven Machos said...

Sure. It's fun to laugh at the expense of these people, but I want to put in a word on their behalf. This is their thing, man. They are wailing with it.

They are all about trying to spread a certain set of beliefs and endorse a certain set of morals. The way they have chosen to do it is Constitutionally allowed (and should be encouraged). It's also ballsy. There's probably not six people on that campus who agree with them. (I exaggerate slightly, I'm sure.)

Supposing you are allowed to go on campus, would you have the courage to go to Bob Jones University and hold up signs promoting whatever you believe in that they don't? Would you take the time?

These people are doing it, man. They are out there. In the arena. Would that I could be as dedicated to anything I want to do. Anything at all.

Steven said...

Meh. Lesbians. I don't get their popularity. They're just more competition for those of us seeking bisexual women.

Elizabeth said...

Well, gee, Pogo, when we have the next national lesbian election, I sure hope you'll vote for me!

Revenant said...

Supposing you are allowed to go on campus, would you have the courage to go to Bob Jones University and hold up signs promoting whatever you believe in that they don't? Would you take the time?

If I wanted to convince anyone at Bob Jones University that I was right and they were wrong, going to their campus and holding up an "I'm right and you're wrong" sign would be one of the stupidest ways to do it. So courage doesn't really even enter into it. Before I'd need to worry about whether I'm brave enough to hold up a protest sign in front of a hostile crowd, I'd first have to be dumb enough to think it was a good way to promote my beliefs.

Seven Machos said...

Yeah, I agree that it's really unlikely to win converts. There's a guy that preaches a lot at a square near my home, and he makes me cringe.

My first instinct is to say that it's silly, too. But it's so little to pile on. These people believe in what they are doing. That's important, if only because tolerance dictates that we have to get along with them in society.

Fenrisulven said...

And they're not decapitating unbelievers.

JDM said...

well, where are the lesbian suburbs?

and are there, like, lesbian utilities?

pogo - is there a lesbian UN? Elizabeth, maybe you could seek to be Secretary-General of that august body?

Michael Farris said...

This reminds me:
As an undergraduate (large southern university with a reputation for decadence) two or three times a year a travelling evangelist and his wife (sometimes with others) would stop by the main plaza/park where they drew enthusiastic crowds of fans, and by 'fans' I mean 'hecklers'.

Their message was a peculiar blend of fire and brimstone and salacious stories masquerading as testimony. The crowd had a great time answering back in kind or repeated certain punch lines together with the preachers. Inevitably at some point different sides of the crowd would trade shouts of "ORAL!" "ANAL!" It was sort of like an evangelical Rocky Horror. In other words no one took it seriously as a religious message and everybody had a great time.

Anyway, whoever wasn't preaching at the moment would mingle with the students in a friendly but disapproving manner. Noticing that one woman was carrying a portable tape recorder one of the plaza regulars kept asking why? why? why? until she lost her temper and said (paraphrasing):
"We have to record it, otherwise good christians in church would never believe how nasty you all are," and then the subject changed.
Then I began _really_ paying attention and noticed that between bits intended to incite the audience into mass gross-out language, the preacher would shift gears and start with the basic born again message.
Meanwhile the frenzied audience kept right on with the obscene commentary.

I assume their business model was visiting conservative churches and playing carefully chosen bits of the tapes (the standard born again message being met with laughter, obscenities and occasional bursts of anger when someone's buttons got pushed) and soliciting donations to continue God's work among the lost college students.

We also had plenty of the earnest but boring kind pictured here but no one paid any attention to them.

Michael Farris said...

"A friend of mine told me this town is the Capital of Lesbianism. The Capital of Lesbianism! What a shame!"

I thought the Capital of Lesbianism was somewhere in New England, Madison is County Seat of Lesbianism at most.

Theo Boehm said...

Seven has a point. Calling on people to consider the morality of their sexual behavior has some worth and takes courage. But this sure isn't the way to do it. It's so idiotic that, as Don Imus would say, it makes your hair hurt.

What Seven Machos says bears some thought, however. The question that nags me is, if you are bearing witness, are you obliged to try to make it effective witness? Or is simply going through the motions enough?

St. Francis went on what seemed a suicide mission to try to convert the Sultan. You couldn't imagine a more foolish and seemingly ineffective thing to do. Yet the Sultan received St. Francis politely, listened to his arguments, and, in the end, agreed to disagree. But he recognized St. Francis' holiness, and gave him leave to visit the holy sites in Jerusalem. And Francis' visit ultimately had an effect on attitudes on both sides.

Perhaps it boils down to what Seven said, "Would that I could be as dedicated to anything I want to do. Anything at all." I think St. Francis had a dedication that surpasses ordinary human understanding, and so became the conscience of Christianity.

It looks like these stiffs are just going through the motions without that authentic intensity, that when present can make people saints, and when absent, laughingstocks.

Ben Masel said...

I'm pretty sure the guy somefeller and Michael Farris are referencing is Jed Smock http://www.brojed.org/contents.html .

Gotta give him some 1st Amendment respect, as when I was touring midwest universities on a "Hemp Tour" in the late '80s, on both occasions when we ran into problems with campus police, the site-specific precedents which got me acquitted were his cases.

Revenant said...

My first instinct is to say that it's silly, too. But it's so little to pile on. These people believe in what they are doing

Eh, don't make me get all Godwinny on you. Lots of bad people believe in what they're doing. Neither courage nor conviction are admirable traits in and of themselves.

Something else to keep in mind is that this people do this because confronting sinners lets them feel morally superior. They're doing it to get a rise out of people, not to bravely confront those with differing opinions. They're *hoping* to get yelled at -- the more abuse they receive, the more superior they feel.

That's important, if only because tolerance dictates that we have to get along with them in society

Tolerance dictates that we have to allow them to exist. It doesn't dictate that I or anyone else has to get along with them. The marketplace of ideas doesn't work if we're forced to act like all ideas have value.

hdhouse said...

awww give Seven Nachos a break...he's just all a twitter with the idea that there is a capital of lesbianism and he can visit it to oogle and google it til his wanton heart explodes.

rightwingprof said...

Speaking of, whatever happened to Max?

J said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
J said...

I'll second the Jed Smock fans. He and his team were quite popular at the large southwestern university I attended and always drew a huge crowd. In the long run, maybe he was more effective than you think.

Mock it all you want - I'll bet the "sexual perverts" sign is a chick magnet. Even for lesbians.

No one seems to have observed that in addition to the golden and other multi-hued calves, the site in the photo appears to have some sort of altar as well. What's up with that?

Bob said...

Michael Farris wrote: "As an undergraduate (large southern university with a reputation for decadence) two or three times a year a travelling evangelist and his wife (sometimes with others)" That sounds a lot like the large southern university I attended, in a town that kinda rhymes with "Brainspill." Jed & Cindy...ah yes...

Pogo said...

Ah, the best of both worlds, speech free enough to permit stuff you hate, and free enough to mock it mercilessly or ignore completely. No violence, no lawsuits, no wringing of hands about church-state or hoostile environments.

When I was in college, I would occasionally stand nearby our preacher-in-the-commons, and shout as loud as he, and gesticulate as wildly, whatever science formula I had just learned, or random song lyrics, or word salad. Quite fun, that.

And Elizabeth, if you run I'll vote for ya, early and often!

Pogo said...

hoostile?
hoostile?
hostile, mebbe, unless we're talkin' threats from Indiana

Freder Frederson said...

Ah, Brother Jed and Sister Cindy, that takes me back. And I went to college at Northern Illinois University in Dekalb, IL.

Remember how he claimed he was converted when he saw Jesus in the middle of a Van Halen concert while David Lee Roth was singing 'Runnin with the Devil' or that Sister Cindy was once a "fornicating disco queen". Did he update the stories as the years went by to remain relevant with the kids.

My favorite interaction with the crowd:

Brother Jed: "I don't know how a prostitute can make money in this town with all those sorority girls giving it away for free"

Reply from some wit in the crowd: "A Prostitute don't expect you to talk to her the next morning."

MadisonMan said...

Sebastian, I agree about the first picture -- very cgi-like. I'm not sure if that says something about Ann's considerable photo skills or about cgi acuity. The man's blue coat (the man coming down the steps) in particular looks computer generated to me.

It's also a great example of the crispness of Wisconsin light in Autumn.

George said...

I wonder how many of the people posting here have small children and how many of those who do allow them to surf the internet alone and/or without blocking software in place. Or even let them channel surf. The vast wasteland has turned into a vast whorehouse.

If you'd fallen asleep 40 years ago Rip Van Winkle-style and awakened today, you wouldn't believe how debauched our society has become.

And, incidentially, what's so bizarre or shocking about the message in the first photo. It basically says, "Reserve sexual activity for marriage." Yes, that's al-Qaeda's message exactly.

Freder Frederson said...

And trust the law students to ruin everybody's fun. At the time (this was the mid-'80s), Illinois still had an archaic "fighting words" statute on the books (I have no idea if it is still in effect). One of the enumerated fighting words (or phrases) was impugning the chastity of an unmarried woman. Some smartass 1L or 2L, showing off the discorvery of this piece of trivia she obviously picked up in her Criminal Law class, goaded Jed into calling her a fornicator (or slut or whore or something similar) and had the Campus Police arrest him for assault.

I don't know what the final resolution of that incident was.

Michael Farris said...

Yeah it was Jed and Cindy (I wasn't trying to protect their identity, I just didn't think anyone would recognize them and didn't realize he's still going).

Anyway, a favorite Jed and Cindy moment of mine was when a Sincere Christian girl tried to engage him in front of the crowd, criticising his confrontational style.
She entreated him to preach _love_ not hate, you know, like Jesus did.
He listened for a minute or so then he scrunched up his face and hissed "Harlot!" (or words to that effect)
The crowd, needless to say, loved it.

Trivia: What happened in the fraternity darkroom?

Michael said...

Ah yes, Jed and Cindy. Had them at the U. Of Kansas too. I went out and "preached" during their lunch break once, had a nice little crowd for my message that the great worm of Shar'hboth was going to devour us all. (Undergraduate wit.)

Remember, too, that when two Mormon kids show up on their doorstep, they're not there because Mormon HQ expects them to convert anybody, they're there to test and toughen up their own faith. (One reason I won't talk to them, why should I train more Mormons.)

Freder Frederson said...

And, incidentially, what's so bizarre or shocking about the message in the first photo. It basically says, "Reserve sexual activity for marriage."

A lot actually. It implies that a government license is required for sexual activity. In other words, the government decides who is mature enough and in the "right" relationship to have sex (this apparently includes Carmen Electra and Dennis Rodman and Britney Spears and Jason Alexander but not Kurt Russell and Goldy Hawn to site a few celebrity examples). The only requirement for this license is that (except for Massachussetts) the applicants be of the opposite sex (although how transgendered and hermaphroditic individuals are handled is an area of extreme confusion), be of a certain age (varies from state to state and can be very young with parental permission in some states), not be too closely related (siblings are completely disallowed, but some states do allow first cousins to marry), and not currently married to someone else. Pay your fee, sit out the appropriate cooling off period--if it exists in the jurisdiction--appear in front of the priest, pastor, judge, elvis impersonator of your choice and the deed is done. You can have all the sex you want until you decide you have had enough and have the state dissolve the marriage. If you do it right, it can cost less than a resonably attractive prostitute.

Secondly, it is completely unrealistic in the society we live in. People put off marriage much longer than they did in the past. Is it really reasonable or even psychologically healthy to expect a 30 year old to be celibate? That is just nonsense. Sex is a normal part of a mature, adult, relationship. To tell our children it isn't is just stupid. How many of these children that you apparently want to preach abstinence to have divorced parents who may be dating someone and actually having sex with that person! Do you think that abstinence only message is going to sink in. Of course not.

hdhouse said...

I have to admit that when I first read the thread title i thought it said:

FREE SEXUAL IMMORALITY

and I was pleasantly pleased about my October visit to Madison.

Ahhhh but dashed hopes.

John said...

Seven Machos...

Sure, they are exercising their Constitutional rights in demonstrating.

And we are exercising ours in mocking them.

Captial of Lesbianism? Damn my geography teachers for skipping all the good stuff!

Clyde said...

No, no, no! The capital of Lesbianism is Beirut! It's on all of the maps! Get it together, people!

Ann Althouse said...

About the CGI look to the first photo. I think it has something to do with the automatic settings the camera used. The scene looked much brighter to the naked eye. I'm guessing that the shutter speed was very fast and that produced an eerie frozen in motion look to the people.

I didn't do any tweaking to this one (though I did crop it a little).

Clyde said...

And what's with all of the cows? Is it a Wisconsin thing, or are they trying to show the punishment for worshipping golden calves?

I just don't get the theocrat wannabes...

AntiCitizenOne said...

"America is a Nation of Sexual Perverts"

Sounds good to me!

Puritanism - n. The deep-seated fear that someone, somewhere is enjoying themselves.

Mr. Snitch said...

Maybe it's a testament to my own perversion, but none of the listed items actually constitutes 'sexual perversion' as I understand it.

"35% of children suffer sexual abuse"

That's child abuse. The kids are victims, not perverts. The adults doing this may be sexual perverts, but what's paramount is that they are abusing children, rather than their preferred method of doing it.

"1 in 5 people are infected with an incurable STD"

That's disease, which you happen to get through sex. I guess it's designed to indicate some unacceptable level of promiscuity, but since you could have sex just once in your life and get herpes, I don't think it qualifies.

It implies that sexual disease is a moral punishment for promiscuity, which is somewhat like saying that AIDS is a punishment for homosexuality. I think that having contracted either ailment one might regret one's sexual choices, but there's never been a moral aspect to disease. Are cancer victims bad people? One might think so by the way they are often treated, but it's not true. Fate and fortune make fools of us all.

"70% of teenagers are sexually active"

Well, DUH. When life spans were shorter, people got married in their teens. Today, that's where the hormones are. Teach them to handle it, rather than pretend it doesn't exist.

Tell me 70% of those in senior citizens' homes are sexually active, and you'll have my attention. Now THAT's perversion.

"Over half the male population admits to viewing pornography"

Men are DESIGNED to look at naked females. Whether they do anything about it is a matter of self-control, but we are programmed to look. You might as well castigate us for having penises (which some women are inclined to do, but that's a whole 'nother issue).

Now, if the stat was that men were losing their jobs due to porn, spending half their salary at strip clubs, unable to form relationships due to porn... well, that would be something worth standing behind a sign about. That's a legit concern (and it may even be happening for all I know). But "viewing porn"? Yeah, they might be viewing porn, and they might watch Katie Couric do the news to see her legs, too, but that's not a perversion. (It's a waste of time, but not a perversion.)

AntiCitizenOne said...

Lesbos Island must surely be the capital of the carpet munchers!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbos_Island

Citizen Deux said...

I also recall these buskers (term for street performers) who rolled across the campuses of the US in the 80's. It appears they are still active. One group was called the Campus Crusade for Christ and they had a pretty good pitchman called Borther Jim.

One of our favorite sports was called "provoke the preacher". One got extra points if you could get them to acknowledge you or (my favorite accomlishment) being labeled a "heathen"

Mark said...

Remember, too, that when two Mormon kids show up on their doorstep, they're not there because Mormon HQ expects them to convert anybody, they're there to test and toughen up their own faith. (One reason I won't talk to them, why should I train more Mormons.)

You might want to revisit that subject. Those young Mormon missionaries are there precisely to share their faith with you and invite you to accept. If that "toughens" their own faith, all the better, but that is not the primary purpose of their work. They are sent to teach and invite. I have that from a good source with impeccable credentials.

Jay said...

If sex is death, and Althouse laughs at death ... dare I complete the syllogism?

Mark said...

So Ann laughs during sex. I have on occasion as well. What's the shock in that?

JAL said...

While most of the comments above are having fun with ridiculing) the street demonstrators Ann took pictures of, a couple made comparisons to al Queda. Now, I don't kow where these demonstrator-folks are coming from. The absence of the "God Hates Fags" vitriole leads me to believe they are not related to Fred Phelps.

That given, al Queda, in case you missed it, kills people who do not accept submission to their God (or pay some hefty taxes to avoid death). Before one lumps all fundamentalism together, get some of the basic distinctions straight, please.

I suppose it is either reassuring that this is our entertainment (demonstrators aginst sexual immorality on a college campus), or disconcerting that this doesn't then more wuickly lead us to appreciate the freedom we have to demonstrate about pretty much whatever we want, and its cost.

Right now there are plenty of Iranian students and professors wishing they had an environment which would let people demontrate, teach, and watch satellite TV without fear of serious recrimination.

I would think the Madison campus demonstration would not be rare.

Freder Frederson said...

That given, al Queda, in case you missed it, kills people who do not accept submission to their God (or pay some hefty taxes to avoid death). Before one lumps all fundamentalism together, get some of the basic distinctions straight, please.

But, if the Brother Jeds, Sister Cindys, and Fred Phelps of the world had their way, their perfect country would probably differ little from what the Taliban was doing in Afghanistan. They certainly would not tolerate the free speech that we allow them and use the law to enforce the morality they seek.

Freder Frederson said...

Furthermore, if the secular humanists decided to preach at Bob Jones University, berating the students there for being a bunch of uptight prudes and brandishing signs like "Virginity is evil", I'm sure they would be quickly hustled off campus.

Look what happened when the Mormon Church bought a public thoroughfare in downtown Salt Lake City alongside the Temple. They assured the city that they would not limit speech there, but immediately attempted to clamp down on the content of speech allowed there.

Richard H said...

As a preacher myself, I like to choose a rhetorical style that allows me to communicate my chosen content with a particular audience. I confess the style I see in these pictures doesn't look very effective to me.

Now if the objective is to feel like you're facing "the enemy" and being persecuted by being ignored...

A Menken Moment said...

I've never been to Madison, so I have to ask, What's with the cows? Are they part of the protest, a symbol perhaps of the placidity of married life, a reminder that the telos of sexuality is fecundity? Or are they just part of the campus decoration?

Bob said...

Mr Snitch wrote: "Tell me 70% of those in senior citizens' homes are sexually active, and you'll have my attention. Now THAT's perversion." That reminds me of an article I read a couple of weeks ago dealing with a "mini-epidemic" of STD's at a senior-oriented community (The Villages, near Orlando, if I recall). Apparently the "rise" (hah!) in the availability of Viagra, et al, is a contributing factor.

Poorly-remembered Futurama quote: "Nothing in here except a couple of elephant skin rugs."

BJK said...

No one seems to have observed that in addition to the golden and other multi-hued calves, the site in the photo appears to have some sort of altar as well. What's up with that?

They're water fountains in the area between the end of State Street and the UW Campus (note the drainage grate between in the center of the brick circle). I'd guess that most people didn't comment because any UW-alums have seen them hundreds of times. That area is invariably where the moralist protestors congregate (it's about as high-traffic an area as you're likely to find on campus).

Joshua said...

Anyway, a favorite Jed and Cindy moment of mine was when a Sincere Christian girl tried to engage him in front of the crowd, criticising his confrontational style.
She entreated him to preach _love_ not hate, you know, like Jesus did.
He listened for a minute or so then he scrunched up his face and hissed "Harlot!" (or words to that effect)
The crowd, needless to say, loved it.


I wonder whether this wasn't so much a genuine attempt at preaching as it was a social experiment, to see what kind of a response one would get by preaching "that old-time religion" - in the old-time style, no less - in one of the most liberal environments one can find. It sounds to me like they may even have been intentionally going over the top with their preaching.

BTW, when they mentioned the name of the state and/or university, did they make a point of accenting the last syllable?

DutchCalvinist said...

I have never had the privilege of visiting UWM, having received my law degree at the Univ. of Illinois, but I am guessing the cows are always in the courtyard-- the state animal of Wisconsin or something.

Boy, y'all get huffy over this! I guess they touched a sore spot.

I didn't hear the spoken messages, of course, but the signs are both tame and sane.

If y'all want to argue that promiscuous sex is the pathway to happiness, go ahead, but I suspect that a large percentage of the population would disagree. I am assuming that you also mock the growing number of urban women who have cosmetic surgery to re-make themselves virgins for their husbands.

Further, these folks are not arguing that promiscuous people should be decapitated. For all we know, they may have been promiscuous themselves and reaped a nasty harvest from their behavior. You judge their motives ("they just want to feel morally superior") when they may very well be motivated by compassion for those who are making the same mistakes that they made.

I did not realize that there was such hostility toward the message that monogamous sex within marriage is a good thing. HOW TERRIBLE!!!

Joe Baby said...

Why would someone stand in a public square for a few hours, preaching an unpopular topic and risking ridicule to feel morally superior?

Especially when one can feel morally superior sitting right at home. ;-)

And I'll have to differ with Mr. Snitch: 1/3rd of children sexual abused and 1/5th of us with an incurable sexual disease (assuming those stats are legit) is a perversion of the good and true. Legit concerns, if you will. Doubt anyone in those categories says they're a better person for it.

Thank God for the public square. Take that, Fidel.

Roy said...

Seems pretty ineffective to me as well, but I'm struck by the comments here. First, so many of you seem so SURE of the protestors motives. I wonder how you know that? Frankly, I don't trust you to know that, making your points dribble. Second, it's ironic how many of you comment on the morally superior feeling of the protestors when your comments come off as so morally superior. I guess you get that same feeling. Bully for you!

BJK said...

I have never had the privilege of visiting UWM, having received my law degree at the Univ. of Illinois, but I am guessing the cows are always in the courtyard-- the state animal of Wisconsin or something.

UWM = University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
UW = Univ. of WI - Madison

(While it's a pet peeve of mine, I'll admit it's a simple mistake....especially for a product of the Illinois educational system. ;)

The cows are a fairly recent addition. Without knowing the full story, I would presume it's something similar to what other communities have done: having local sponsors decorate a series of large statues, displaying them, and then auctioning them off for charity. (I think Chicago did it a few years ago, and I know Minneapolis did something similar after Charles Schultz died.)

class-factotum said...

There are cows in Boston, too.

http://class-factotum.journalspace.com/?entryid=1476

http://class-factotum.journalspace.com/?entryid=1488

Petro said...

Fred Said:
A lot actually. It implies that a government license is required for sexual activity.

This says a LOT about you.

The people being discussed here would be really puzzled why you would think that. To them Marriage has very little to do with the Government, and is mostly a religious and social convention.

J said...

"Tell me 70% of those in senior citizens' homes are sexually active, and you'll have my attention. Now THAT's perversion"

Mr Snitch, make sure you're sitting down when you read this:

http://www.local6.com/news/9283707/detail.html

If you decide to buy a place there, let us know what you think...

brian said...

About the cows - they are scattered all around the city as part of the Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board's Cow Parade Wisconsin. There's some coverage of it in the local rag, but it's a very love-hate thing among local residents.

As for the protesters, they are usually widely ignored and seem to be present whenever the weather is nice and class is in session. If they are particularly obnoxious venom-spewers, then students will respond.

Freder Frederson said...

To them Marriage has very little to do with the Government, and is mostly a religious and social convention.

I don't get, are you saying that a marriage is only valid if sanctified by the proper moral and religious authorities. That the Carmen Electra/Dennis Rodman nuptials would be considered a mockery by these people and thus not a real "marriage"?

So now you are adding even more requirements to the mix. There must be some type of "social" and "religious" recognition of the marriage aside from the legal one. Or does the legal aspect of marriage not matter to you at all? If that is the case, gay marriages are performed every day in this country and are fully recognized by mainstream religions and Christian denominations (e.g., it is up to individual Rabbis in Reform Jewish congregations and the United Church of Christ fully recognizes gay marriages as santified by the Church).

Freder Frederson said...

If y'all want to argue that promiscuous sex is the pathway to happiness, go ahead, but I suspect that a large percentage of the population would disagree.

That's the problem with the abstinence only crowd. You can't believe there is a middle ground between sex only within heterosexual marriage and promiscuous sex. Believe it or not, most single adults have healthy, well-adjusted attitudes about sex and are neither promiscuous nor do they believe that they have to save "it" for marriage. Rather, they believe that sex is a normal part of a healthy, adult, romantic relationship.

As for women who have surgery "to re-make themselves virgins for their husbands", their medical care dollars would be better spent on psychiatric care to get to the root of the very serious issues they have with their sexuality.

TallDave said...

A friend of mine told me this town is the Capital of Lesbianism.

I am so there.

rightwingprof said...

"Brother Jed and Sister Cindy"

Brother Jed was Max's follower, and then Max, who was by far the most entertaining, just disappeared. Cindy joined Jed later. And I was somewhat surprised to discover at the time that Max apparently covered pretty much every major campus coast to coast in the US.

Freder Frederson said...

The cow thing was original and at least made a modicum of sense when they appeared in actual "cow towns", like Kansas City and Chicago (although Chicago was actually known as "hog butcher to the world"), but now it is just hackneyed and cliched. Now I realize Wisconsin is America's Dairyland, but Boston?

Knemon said...

Silly.

Everyone knows *Ithaca* is the capital of lesbianism.

Sigh. Makes me homesick.

Mr. Snitch said...

From 'J': "If you decide to buy a place there, let us know what you think..."

Yow. Well I guess I should have seen this coming, with the proliferation of 'mature' and 'granny' porn sites. And Viagra, which changes everything I guess.

Not that I, uh, know much about such things myself...

Alex Elliott said...

Supposing you are allowed to go on campus, would you have the courage to go to Bob Jones University and hold up signs promoting whatever you believe in that they don't? Would you take the time?

You wouldn't be allowed to do this, and if you tried, you'd be politely escorted off campus. Plenty of individuals and groups (most notably, Mel White's group Soulforce, which works for reconciliation between gays and evangelicals) have attempted to protest at BJU and have been turned away.

As a private institution that deliberate eschews any government funding, Bob Jones U. is not under any obligation to provide a venue for unmoderated speech. That's part of why they don't accept government funding, in fact.

darwin said...

Silly religionists.. don't they know that the Capital Of Lesbianism is.. Northampton, Mass?

=darwin

Revenant said...

While most of the comments above are having fun with ridiculing) the street demonstrators Ann took pictures of, a couple made comparisons to al Queda.

Oh really? Who did that?

Looking at the posts prior to yours I don't see any comparisons to al Qaeda -- just to fundamentalist Islam.

Right now there are plenty of Iranian students and professors wishing they had an environment which would let people demontrate, teach, and watch satellite TV without fear of serious recrimination.

I wish they did, too -- and I'm certainly thankful that we have such an environment here. But the reason we have that environment is that the people holding those signs are shunned by polite society. If they held political power, we'd be no better off than the Iranians, freedom-wise

David Manus said...

The capital of Lesbianism! Sounds like the docweasel family's next vacation destination! We love lesbians!

Abraham said...

But the reason we have that environment is that the people holding those signs are shunned by polite society.

It's a question of perspective, though. Everyone falls all over themselves to mock and ridicule these people, who have unusual ideas but aren't typically prone to violence.

But let some genuine communist revolutionaries come to town, or some Starbucks-hating, window-smashing greenies, or a nutty leftist conspiracy theorist, and suddenly hearts flutter and platitudes about free speech and open minds spew out of power-hungry mouths.

It's the rank hypocrisy that came to disgust me, after four years of observing it firsthand.

Elizabeth said...

But let some genuine communist revolutionaries come to town, or some Starbucks-hating, window-smashing greenies, or a nutty leftist conspiracy theorist, and suddenly hearts flutter and platitudes about free speech and open minds spew out of power-hungry mouths.

The nutty conspiracy theorists get the same laughter treatment these folks are getting here. As for the actual window smasher, I've never seen fluttery hearts and platitudes as the response. More often, cities respond with a street full of armored riot control police. How have you missed that in your four years of keen obserations, and what were you doing all the years before that?

Revenant said...

It's a question of perspective, though. Everyone falls all over themselves to mock and ridicule these people, who have unusual ideas but aren't typically prone to violence.

They aren't typically prone to using violence against people who badly outnumber them, at least.

When the roles are reversed, gays and other perverts suddenly find themselves jailed for the crime of existing. I call that violence.

Joel said...

Nice Ann, what was it you said about the nutcase adjunct professor that thinks 9-11 was an inside job? 'ignore him and he will go away'?

I do not see you mocking religious fanatics who have a tendency to sue/bomb/cut necks of thier mockers.

How very Borders Books of you...

MadisonMan said...

Joel, I think the more correct statement would be you don't see Ann blogging about mocking religious fanatics, etc. etc.

You (or I) have no idea what the hostess does away from this medium.

Prup (aka Jim Benton) said...

This is FASCINATING. Not one commenter yet has mentioned WHY this demonstration was there at this time. It ain't religion, guys, it's politics.

Madison happens to be a main part of the district of the only (openly) lesbian member of the Congress, Tammy Baldwin. They aren't trying to convert citizens, they are trying to win votes for her opponent.

Not that they will, since, if I remember correctly she's one of the more popular ones, and very deservedly so.

Ann Althouse said...

Prup: I think this would be more effective as a pro-Baldwin trick. The message is that the nonliberal position is absurdly narrow and creepily grim. Are mainstream social conservatives against masturbation and trying to scare you about hell?

Revenant said...

Are mainstream social conservatives against masturbation

Joycelyn Elders might think so. :)

parkybob22 said...

The times we live in are those in which the true values are inverted or even perverted. Their meaning is distorted from good into evil. After a 70 years period of socialism and atheism people do not longer make the difference between good and evil. That’s why, it is necessary to define these values again. So, what is sexual immorality? Some say that immoral is only when you are unfaithful to the partner of marriage. In this article I want to make a larger presentation of what God defines in the Bible as sexual immorality.

Adultery

Adultery is every sexual act where at least one of the implied persons are a part of the covenant of marriage. God is very categorical in regards to this sin and He says in the 10 commandments:

You shall not commit adultery. (Exodus 20:14)(NASB)

This was such a grave sin that it had to be punished with death, as the following passage says:

If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Leveticus 20:10)(NASB)

Fornication

Fornication is the sexual act where only unmarried persons are implied. Today, it is spread a very wrong opinion, that says that it is sin only to change your partner, but if you are unmarried, you are free to have sexual relations with the person you like. Even some girls, that have decided to be virgins until marriage, are mocked by the other girls around them. Fornication is a sin as grave as adultery because it affects gravely the future marriage and the eternal fate of that person. The Bible writes in this sense:

Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)(NASB)

According to the cited biblical verse, those who commit adultery defile trough this their future marriage and the marriage bed, that is their sexual relation. No one will be able to rejoice of a defiled sexual relation, but it will transform his/her future wife or husband in an unguilty victim. That’s why, if you are a man, it is important to propose marriage a virgin and a rigtous girl, and if you are a girl, to get married to a man, who didn’t live immorally. It is true that there are fewer such kind of men, but they still exist. I was very glad and I praised the Lord when I heard the statement the Brasilian footballer made to the journalist, that he had been virgin before his marriage and he hadn’t ever had any sexual relations with another woman. This is a real MAN and a powerful Christian, that wasn’t defeated by the pressure of the time or of the thinking, that is “in fashion”. Follow up his example! Hold your futute marriage and your marriage bed undefiled.

Sexual perversions

These are a great evil and in our world the immorals try to present them as something normal, calling them “untraditional sexual orientation”. God calls them in the Bible “abominations” and “ defiled things” and He gives a list of them. Here is the list:

None of you shall approach any blood relative of his to uncover nakedness; I am the LORD. (Leveticus 18:6)(NASB)

In continuation, the text defines clearly who are considered blood relatives, with which the marriage is banned. These are the parents, the step parents, the sister, the brother, the nephew, the niece, the aunt, the sister of the brother, the aunt from the uncle, the daughter-in-law, etc. All these sexual relations are incest. After that, the list continues with other things that are defined as perversions:

You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. (Leveticus 18:22–24)(NASB)

Dissoluteness of the mind

This is another way of immorality that is very spread and when a man begins to practice such kind of immorality, he will necessarily start to practice some of them or maybe all of those written above. What does it mean dissoluteness of the mind? Lord Jesus defines it in this way:

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)(NASB)

The sinful nature provokes every man to lust sexually another woman than the one that is his wife. But, every man is responsible to learn to control his mind and his eyes, because who looks at a woman with lust has already commited adultery with her in his heart, and the adultery commited in the heart is equivalent to the one commited physically, because it will finally lead you to physical immorality of all kinds. That’s why, it is important to learn to control your thoughts and your eyes. The righteous Job said in regards to this:

I have made a covenant with my eyes; how then could I gaze at a virgin? (Job 31:1)(NASB)

Today, people led by the wickedness of their heart, have developed a whole industry of pornography. A very great part of Internet pages contain pornography. “Playboy” magazine, that is one with an immoral content and that spreads much immorality in the world, has 15 million readers and is one of the most read magazine in the world. If these people only realized how much evil they had brought in the their lives and families through this magazine, they wouldn’t buy it. Unfortunately, when they realize this evil, it is too late, because their own lives and their own families have already been destroyed.

All these practices that have been listed above are sexual immorality that brings very many grave consequences unto people’s lives.

parkybob22 said...

matter of fact its your own fault you dont see the truth. You are so blinded in sin that you will never see it until you open your eyes to the truth. There is a God and there is a burning hell. It wont come as a flood this time as a judgment but as a burning lake of fire for eternity.