June 1, 2023

"But because most death investigators do not collect data on sexuality or gender identity, no one knows how many gay and transgender people die by suicide each year in the United States..."

It says in "No One Knows How Many L.G.B.T.Q. Americans Die by Suicide/Death investigators in Utah are among a handful of groups trying to learn how many gay and transgender people die by suicide in the United States" (NYT).

So often we hear policy arguments based on the likelihood that transgender people will commit suicide as — as if the number is well known (and as if we also know why they commit suicide).

The absence of data is especially unfortunate now, [researchers] said, when assumptions about suicide rates among L.G.B.T.Q. groups are frequently thrust into high-stakes political debates. Some L.G.B.T.Q. advocates have warned that bans on gender-affirming care for transgender minors will lead to more suicides, for example, while some Republican lawmakers have claimed that deaths by suicide are rare.... 

Although studies have reported a high rate of suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts among lesbian, gay and transgender people, that doesn’t necessarily mean a high rate of suicides. [Michael Staley, a sociologist who was hired to lead the data-collection effort in the Utah medical examiner’s office,] noted that although women have a higher rate of suicide attempts than men do, men have a much higher rate of dying by suicide, partly because they have more access to guns....

89 comments:

TreeJoe said...

The lack of data on this is telling, because it was the original basis for the APA and AMA supporting transgender-affirmation. To reduce suicide in particular.

If it's not reducing suicide, then that would indicate they need to change course.

If they aren't tracking whether suicide rates are changing, then they instituted preferred policy not based on science.

Narr said...

Clearly, hetbreeders have let down and failed the most precious resource any society can possess--its LGBTQ+.14159 members.

RideSpaceMountain said...

If I may, allow me to offer some anecdotal stats I've heard about from another country - Brazil - which has a far larger transvestite population than the US.

> Everyone jokes about the "41%" US suicide statistic, but in Brazil it is much much higher (they are also much much poorer...so that rings true with me). It also does not include "attempted suicide" in that data. In Brazil, they actually have a category for trans-persons on some official documents, so it wouldn't surprise me if they have a better grasp on actual trans-suicides.

> The homicide rate for transvestites in Brazil is through the roof. Being a transvestite in Brazil and seeking romance without telling someone of the opposite sex will get you killed, sometimes even if you're not seeking romance. Depending on your lifestyle, it's not a question of if, but when...

We've all heard the argument, "Live girl or a dead boy", but the truth is more akin to kicking the can down the road.

Dave Begley said...

When the NE bill to stop this trans business was being debated, the Left went on and on about how all these kids were going to commit suicide. Thankfully, not one did.

gilbar said...

The REAL Question IS: How many LESS (if any) will kill themselves if they cut off their breasts?

Temp Blog said...

Mentally ill people commit suicide, and the ineffective "treatment" is ineffective. And we're surprised the narrative makers are creating a narrative devoid of fact?

gilbar said...

Let's Face FACTS!
IF a child facing gender dysphoria does NOT receive gender affirming care..
That child WILL Die! (within the next 80 to 90 years or so).

The Solution is MAID* to order.
IF a child says they have gender dysphoria, let's do the Kind Thing, and terminate them.
It will save them a lifetime of unhappiness, and save society LOTS of money.
PLUS!
i'll bet you dollars to donuts** the number of children claiming gender dysphoria would drop to NOTHING

MAID* Medical Aid In Dying
donuts** mmmmm donuts!

gilbar said...

Seriously, with or without any and all gender affirming care..
The gender dysphoric will be SAD, and unhappy. Let's put them out of their misery

Michael K said...

The homicide rate for transvestites in Brazil is through the roof. Being a transvestite in Brazil and seeking romance without telling someone of the opposite sex will get you killed, sometimes even if you're not seeking romance. Depending on your lifestyle, it's not a question of if, but when...

I can vouch for that. I still remember admitting the survivor of a pair of trannies that picked up a couple of sailors. When the reveal was accomplished, the reaction of the sailors was very different from "The Crying Game." I operated on the survivor and he recovered. Then we began getting calls about "Maria" and we finally figured out who "Maria" was. The discharge day I saw him/her for the last time and he/she made a pretty good looking woman. Comparable to "The Crying Game."

Lincolntf said...

I'm old enough to remember when the notion that mainstreaming homosexuality, through media, legislation, social pressure, etc. would lead to grotesqueries like men in women's bathrooms and transvestites in elementary schools was considered reactionary absurdism. Of course, now it's the reality.

Mason G said...

"The absence of data is especially unfortunate now..."

It's not like it would be impossible to collect the data. If it doesn't exist, it's because somebody doesn't want it to.

Dude1394 said...

So since we know how many soldiers commit suicide, can we get rid of our military? Or are they just a don't really care?

Rabel said...

If a close friend or relative died by suicide and an investigator from the government started asking me questions of a most personal and private nature about the about the sexuality of the deceased I am certain that I would not cooperate.

I would probably be quite rude if the investigator persisted.

Oso Negro said...

Dave Begley - it’s great that Nebraskans are so protective of their gay children. But how can you be sure that “not one” committed suicide? Does Nebraska tag them and track them like Yellowstone wolves?

Jupiter said...

"So often we hear policy arguments based on the likelihood that transgender people will commit suicide as — as if the number is well known (and as if we also know why they commit suicide)."

Actually, I don't think I have ever heard such an argument. You have to be reading to encounter that sort of mendacity. Reading the Commie press. Which I don't, much. So what do you mean, "we"? You got another college-educated white woman in your pocket?

Mark said...

The reality is that severe suicidal depression is quite high among those who identify as the opposite sex or are same-sex attracted. And it has nothing to do with any alleged anti-gay or anti-trans sentiments since practically throughout society they are celebrated and affirmed.

It is the inherent cognitive dissonance that is at the center of it all. The suicidal ideation is especially high among the post-trans trans who finally realize that despite mutilating their bodies, they will be and can never be the opposite sex.

It's all very sad. And it is the Pride crowd that is pushing people over the cliff.

Sebastian said...

"as if the number is well known (and as if we also know why they commit suicide)"

Most prog claims depend on the as-if. Example: we must subsidize EVs, as if we know they will reduce global warming (and as if we also know that the reduction will do a lot of good). Example 2: we must reduce police funding to reduce racist police brutality, as if we know police disproportionately kill blacks (and as if we also know that such a reduction will in fact save lives). It is the essence of Harry Frankfurt-style bullshit.

Tina Trent said...

When studies are done factoring in lifestyle risks (prostitution, drug use), income and family stability, race and ethnicity, and location, we will have accurate predictors.

But this won't happen. Not only because of the ways activism warps statistics within communities, media reports, and research groups themselves, but because the high percentages of illegal immigrants skew all realistic statistic-gathering.

Bruce Hayden said...

“ [Michael Staley, a sociologist who was hired to lead the data-collection effort in the Utah medical examiner’s office,] noted that although women have a higher rate of suicide attempts than men do, men have a much higher rate of dying by suicide, partly because they have more access to guns....”

That’s BS, but not unexpected from an academic. Women often “attempt” suicide as a cry for help. They rarely are seriously trying. They rarely use firearms, because it’s harder to survive. Cutting your wrists or ODing on pills are much easier to survive. Guys succeed much more often because they are serious about it.

We are facing this with a potential daughter-in-law, who threatens suicide every time her control over our grandson starts to slip. Just under 50 years ago, my GF at the time told me that she would kill herself if I left her. I moved across country, from CO to DC the next week, taking a job there. Not surprisingly, she turned 73 in February. She’s been with my best friend from college since they were 40, and I want to ask him how many times she made that threat with him. It is very often a female guilt weapon. So, we shouldn’t be surprised that trans people of both types, have adopted this stratagem.

zipity said...


Any stats on how many who have transitioned regret it and then committed suicide?

Or is looking for that data verboten?

madAsHell said...



Isn't dead girl, or live boy?? You don't want to be caught in bed with either.

Gator said...

I’m more concerned about the suicide rate of males due to dealing with AWFLs in HR and DEI departments, which are 90% female.

n.n said...

ChatNYT: How many in the transgender spectrum (e.g. homosexual) self-abort. How many subjects of Levine's Dreams of Herr Mengele suffer from progressive self-abortive ideation, mutilated bodies, and corrupt minds through psychiatric corruption.

The transgender spectrum includes homosexuality, bisexuality, quasi, pseudo, neo, etc.

Sex: male and female. Gender is sex-correlated attributes (e.g. sexual orientation): masculine and feminine, respectively.

A baby... fetal-baby is a human life from conception. #HateLovesAbortion

takirks said...

Let's be brutally honest, here: If you're a member of the LGBTWTFBBQ "community", you're already at high risk for suicide and other life-truncating things simply because... You're nuts. It's that 'effing simple; the majority of the people in this part of society are already dysfunctional as all hell, and the fact that they die young should not come as a huge shock. Even the more stable members do things that destroy their health and quality of life; witness gay bathhouse culture in San Francisco from before, during, and after the height of the AIDS crisis. Few made rational decisions; you can still find people talking about deliberately getting AIDS so as to satisfy some seriously deranged urge they have.

Crazy tends to shorten lives, either through deliberate self-harm or behavior that the crazy person doesn't realize will likely end in death. I recall being on the periphery of one situation where a transgender male had a crush on a seriously (well, at the time...) hetero male, and made a point of going after him romantically. Without bothering to be up-front about his status as a physically-intact male... Being as the target of his "love" was from a subculture that wasn't exactly tolerant of such things, that went about as well as you could expect, resulting in a near-death experience and attempted murder charges. Ripples from that took a couple of years to flatten out, I left the area, and it was about five years before I was back, whereupon I run into mutual friends, enquire as to the fate of said knucklehead, only to be told he'd repeated the same behavior yet again, and then disappeared. Mutual friend told me that all of the transsexual's friends and acquaintances were so tired of dealing with his idiocies that they'd just cut ties and let him go his way, which apparently did not end well. They may find a body, one day, but for the moment? Nobody has any idea what happened to him. His second target left the area shortly after the disappearance, in apparent haste, so you do the math.

I'm not sure that the high death and suicide rates are necessarily "society's fault". I think it's more a factor of people who manifest these issues as being peculiarly self-destructive and very poor risks for survival. I honestly don't think that "more acceptance" is going to save lives; indeed, by encouraging more people to manifest these behaviors, it may well draw in a bunch of folks who'd have remained on the sidelines and not participated.

It ain't just the straights beating on the gays, either; you want to see some really horrific domestic violence situations, step through the looking glass into the gay and lesbian communities. I knew a super-butch cop whose sexuality I never made inquiry of, who told me some of the crap she'd had to deal with dealing with "those f*cking lesbos", which was decidedly odd because I never once saw her dating a male, or even having a personal romantic life. I think she may have gotten tagged as being "one of them" by the hierarchy, and they just tracked her into that specialty. In any event, it was her experienced opinion that the absolute worst community for domestic violence was lesbians, followed by gays, followed by a distant third of the straight community. It was her contention that lesbian domestic violence was a question of time, not whether it would happen. Same with the gays, although she did say that the lesser commitment generally seen in that community did tend to reduce things, somewhat.

As a society, we might want to take a look at why all our police wind up as generally cynical, jaded, and extremely negative people that don't trust anyone, even other cops. Worst racists I ever ran into were black Chicago cops, who said things I think even the Grand Dragon of the KKK would find a bit... Intolerant.

Scott M said...

You know what they do collect? Enough data to know men are in crisis re suicide. This is known and yet nobody seems to give a fig.

Deevs said...

"...men have a much higher rate of dying by suicide, partly because they have more access to guns..."

Great. On top of all the tragedy of the suicides, women's second amendment rights are apparently being violated.

RideSpaceMountain said...

"That’s BS, but not unexpected from an academic. Women often “attempt” suicide as a cry for help. They rarely are seriously trying. They rarely use firearms, because it’s harder to survive. Cutting your wrists or ODing on pills are much easier to survive. Guys succeed much more often because they are serious about it."

That is 100% true. The ratio is like 100:1 attempts/actual follow-through for females. According to Scott Alexander with Astral Codex Ten, women will attempt suicide consistently without following-through, and if they die, it's usually in the hospital under care after the fact. Men succeed 50% the 1st time. Very few suicidal males fail their 2nd attempt if there is one. In other words, you just don't see repeat attempts from males like you do with females...2nd time is usually the charm.

More fascinating still is when you apply the above to transvestites. You could make a pretty cogent biology argument that they are still males, and you could prove it by how successful they are with committing suicide.

If they were "real girls" they'd attempt suicide forever without following-through. Hence, the 41% seems plausible.

madAsHell said...

They keep records, but they validate EXACTLY what everyone is thinking.

There is no salvation in mutilating your genitals.

Heatshield said...

The problem that there is an excellent study on transsexual treatment and suicide and the activists hate the results. The article here https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/ by Paul McHugh, Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School and pioneer of transsexual treatment and surgery, refers to a Swedish study. McHugh’s article gives a good summary of his views after his full career dedicated to helping transsexual people when most people ignored them. He points out that the Swedish study found over 30 years that the suicide rate after surgery went up by a factor of twenty. Not 20%, 20X! These people pushing these surgeries are incompetent and evil. Why are they ignoring science?!

Breezy said...

So strange that we are forced yet again into an accommodation without any data to support the accommodation.

Trans, EVs, immigration, the threat of CO2, election fraud, 80 Billion for IRS… it goes on and on. As a society, we have lost all intent and rigor to seek and work with truth and honesty. We’re effectively being manipulated by truth tuckers.

rhhardin said...

It's not by accident that Tod and Mort are male names.

gilbar said...

sociology could be SO interesting, if you were allowed to ask interesting questions.
How do suicide rates for gender dysphorics compare to the general population?
How do suicide rates for gender dysphorics with gender affirming care (GAC) compare to those without?
How about rates of those that regret their GAC?
How do All of these rates compare to other types of body dysphoria (anorexia? steroid abuse?)

heck!
how do rates compare between woke leftists and right wingers?
Who would you rather have? a dead Social Justice Warrior? or a living Young American for Freedom?

My name goes here. said...

How high must the number of gay people that attempt/commit suicide (as a percentage of all gay people) be before homosexuality is added back to the DSM?

Original Mike said...

I've become a complete cynic. After having watched the activists completely ignore the Covid data in pursuit of their desired course of action I see no reason why this arena would be any different.

Michael K said...

Blogger Lincolntf said...

I'm old enough to remember when the notion that mainstreaming homosexuality, through media, legislation, social pressure, etc. would lead to grotesqueries like men in women's bathrooms and transvestites in elementary schools was considered reactionary absurdism. Of course, now it's the reality.


Oh yes. It's now become the "love that cannot speak its name." Namely pedophilia.

Wince said...

I once tried to look up the statistics on how many people that committed suicide were the subject of IRS enforcement proceedings. Couldn't find any statistics.

Indeed, it looks like the IRS deliberately conceals that likely motive from law enforcement authorities (boldface, below). But what I did find was how the IRS treats suicide by tax payers.

As a "threat," not a human consequence of the IRS enforcement action.

Part 5. Collecting Process
Chapter 1. Field Collecting Procedures
Section 3. Safety, Security, and Control
5.1.3 Safety, Security, and Control
Manual Transmittal
December 15, 2020

5.1.3.4 Assault, Threat, or Intimidation
5.1.3.4.1 Definition of Terms
5.1.3.4.2 Assault Procedures
5.1.3.4.3 Threat / Intimidation Procedures
5.1.3.4.3.1 Threat of Bodily Harm or Force
5.1.3.4.3.2 Threat of Suicide
5.1.3.4.3.2.1 Suicide Threat Resources
5.1.3.4.3.2.2 Suicide Threat Procedures
5.1.3.4.3.2.2.1 Suicide Threat — Situation 1 — Does Not Require Access to Tax Information
5.1.3.4.3.2.2.2 Suicide Threat — Situation 2 — Requires Access to Tax Information
5.1.3.4.3.3 Written or other Non-Verbal Threat
5.1.3.4.4 Assault / Threat / Intimidation — Reporting Procedures
5.1.3.4.4.1 Preferred Reporting Method to Contact TIGTA
5.1.3.4.4.1.1 Alternate Reporting Method to Contact TIGTA

Procedures for an Authorized Employee to Report the Suicide Threat

Immediately call 911 for assistance, if available. Otherwise contact the appropriate state or federal law enforcement authorities.

Report that an individual has threatened suicide.

Provide the name and location of the individual.

Caution: Only disclose the information necessary to help law enforcement authorities locate the individual. State that the threat was made during a contact involving "official business." Do not mention the underlying reason for the contact or that it is related to a tax issue.

Contact TIGTA as soon as possible. Report the disclosure to the local Disclosure Office for accounting purposes after you make the disclosure. See IRM 11.3.28.7.1, Suicide Threats.

Greg the Class Traitor said...

So often we hear policy arguments based on the likelihood that transgender people will commit suicide as — as if the number is well known (and as if we also know why they commit suicide).

Wait, you mean the Left is completely lying, again?

I'm shocked, shocked!

walter said...

Might be an increase in parents self-deleting when they realize what they enabled.

Rocco said...

Oso Negro said...
""Dave Begley - it’s great that Nebraskans are so protective of their gay children. But how can you be sure that “not one” committed suicide? Does Nebraska tag them and track them like Yellowstone wolves?"

I'm imagining little rainbow-colored tracking colors.

walter said...

By the way,
How we doing on that manifesto?
Tox screen?
Whatevs.

n.n said...

There was the confused female mass abortionist, her victims soon forgotten, but most women seem to either indulge performative self-abortion or choose a method common in reproductive rites.

How do People Most Commonly Complete Suicide?

More use a firearm (52%) than every other method combined. Suffocation (mostly hanging) accounts for 23%, poisoning/overdose for 18%, jumps 2%, cuts 2%, and other 4%.
Most nonfatal self-harm treated in the emergency department results from poisoning/overdose (64%), followed by cutting (19%). Less than 1% of nonfatal attempts are with a gun.

Basic Suicide Facts: How

As for the transgender spectrum, there is a difference between stable bands in the spectrum including homosexuals, bisexual socially distanced (e.g. Pulse Club), and others. The modern Mengeles should review past research (e.g. John Hopkins) before resuming their human experiments in surgical mutilation, medical dysfunction, and psychiatric psychosis.

Narr said...

I wonder how the release of the Nashville Tranny's manifesto is going. Any month now, I suppose.

Rafe said...

“Dave Begley - it’s great that Nebraskans are so protective of their gay children. But how can you be sure that “not one” committed suicide? Does Nebraska tag them and track them like Yellowstone wolves?”

Interesting you should mention wolves:

"I had grasped the significance of the silence of the dog, for one true inference invariably suggests others...“

- Rafe

Richard said...

Every time I hear L.G.B.T.Q. advocates warn that bans on gender-affirming care for transgender minors will lead to more suicides, it remind me of this scene from Blazing Saddles.

Randomizer said...

Not hard to see where this is going. When the transgender suicide rate is quantified, laws and policies to establish transgender people as fragile and precious will be established. Challenging or failing to embrace preferred pronouns will be hate crimes and parents reluctant to encourage transgender behavior will risk termination of parental rights.

The ability to have sincere discussions about serious topics will be further eroded in America.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Althouse is a Chat LGBTQplus

NTTIAWWT

Quaestor said...

...although women have a higher rate of suicide attempts than men do, men have a much higher rate of dying by suicide, partly because they have more access to guns....

Men commit suicide with guns because firearms are much more lethal than razor blades or barbituates. A bullet through the brainstem is instant death. If you honestly intend self-destruction that's the cheap, private, and as certainly lethal (as anything can be) means to that end. If what you intend is attempted suicide, don't put a loaded gun to your head and squeeze the trigger. If you miss the pons and the cerebellum, you may not die, and you may be a very uninteresting person thereafter.

Generally, heterosexual men are more honest about these things. They are usually found dead and decomposed, whereas women and gays are found unconscious, in danger certainly, but not past heroic intervention, which is the point of the whole "attempted suicide" charade.

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

...although women have a higher rate of suicide attempts than men do, men have a much higher rate of dying by suicide, partly because they have more access to guns....

Men commit suicide with guns because firearms are much more lethal than razor blades or barbituates. A bullet through the brainstem is instant death. If you honestly intend self-destruction that's the cheap, private, and as certainly lethal (as anything can be) means to that end. If what you intend is attempted suicide, don't put a loaded gun to your head and squeeze the trigger. If you miss the pons and the cerebellum, you may not die, and you may be a very uninteresting person thereafter.

Generally, heterosexual men are more honest about these things. They are usually found dead and decomposed, whereas women and gays are found unconscious, in danger certainly, but not past heroic intervention, which is the point of the whole "attempted suicide" charade.

rhhardin said...

Blanchot (_The Space of Literature_) says that the possibility of suicide is what expresses freedom.

Christopher said...

The homicide rate for transvestites in Brazil is through the roof. Being a transvestite in Brazil and seeking romance without telling someone of the opposite sex will get you killed, sometimes even if you're not seeking romance. Depending on your lifestyle, it's not a question of if, but when..

I understand a fair amount of murdered trans is from hooking, either from revulsion by misled Johns, or others who knew what they were getting into but it's a brutal business anyway on the street and lots of ways to take a dark turn. What trans activists want wider society to think is that straights are out there hunting down trans women, and it's just not the case.

Paul A. Mapes said...

The affiliations of the people conducting the survey will be crucial. Unless steps are taken to make sure these people will be absolutely objective and scientific in their information gathering, every suicide will be counted as involving homosexuality or gender identity problems unless there is clear and well-documented evidence that something else was the cause.

Paul A. Mapes said...

The affiliations of the people conducting the survey will be crucial. Unless steps are taken to make sure these people will be absolutely objective and scientific in their information gathering, every suicide will be counted as involving homosexuality or gender identity problems unless there is clear and well-documented evidence that something else was the cause.

mikee said...

Watched the Tom Hanks movie "Otto" last night. The hook to this post is that the storyline adds a suddenly appearing transvestite homeless young person to the multiple problems Otto must resolve before he can kill himself and join his recently deceased wife. The trannie character was purely inserted as a current affair topic, not an actual character with any meaning to anyone in the film or watching it. Pretty lame.

The portrayal by Hanks of an elderly competent person was so spot on that it made me recall similar bodily motions, facial grimaces, and hand motions of an elderly competent person I knew for several decades.

But the story, apparently taken from a German book about a real person, was that Otto kept making suicide gestures that he must have known would not work, based on his general competency and intelligence. When he finally got the coach gun out and grabbed a shotshell, I was wishing him all the best in his suicidal efforts, but alas, no, he missed again.

The trannie character could have been replaced by a homeless pregnant teen, except there was already a pregnant woman character, or any of the many other politically correct victim classes from homeless Southern White teen girl to mentally deficient homeless [enter ethnic minority], without changing the story at all. Ah, well, flavor of the month. Next movie I'll get to see a homeless pedophile teen and his elementary school age "partner" get relief from life's problems via a competent person's generosity.

phantommut said...

The canard: Guns make suicide easier.

Want to know more about suicide? Do some basic reading about suicide in Japan, a society with practically zero gun ownership and a horrendous suicide problem.

Static Ping said...

Well, of course there is no data. Every time someone tries to gather data, they are denounced and threatened with cancellation if the data does not perfectly align with the results desired of very specific activists. It is the same story we have seen for years now on such a multitude of issues, such that I assume any studies that actually get published are necessarily fraudulent. Of course, these days that's pretty much a given as the only scientists allowed to work anymore are there because they are willing to tell their paymasters what they want to hear.

It would not shock me if suicide among the "T" people is very high compared to the rest of the population. When you deny your very biology and being, that is a sign of severe dysfunction, and severely dysfunctional people tend to try to kill themselves, whether that involves going the direct route or poisoning themselves through whatever controlled substances they prefer. When you hate yourself, it tends to lead in obvious directions.

n.n said...

I'm imagining little rainbow-colored tracking colors.

The residual traces of albinophobia celebrated on lawns, on bumper stickers, in song with gay parade.

n.n said...

How we doing on that manifesto?

There are diverse precedents to compel the State, with the collusion of a Fourth Leg braying, to suppress inquiry with allegations of diversity (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry) attributed to the center and right, but always taking root on the left.

n.n said...

Might be an increase in parents self-deleting when they realize what they enabled.

Yes, the John Hopkins study concluded that trans/homosexuality et al are stable conditions, while an unpredictable minority of trans/others may benefit from mutilation, corruption, and steering (think Google, Wikipedia, but with a Fentanyl chaser) through professional care. NOW, another wicked solution offered by the liberal cult that garnered renewed support of human rights past, present, and progressive, and selective exclusion through political congruence ("=").

Narr said...

We used to get regular policy announcements about what to do if a student expressed suicidal intent, but it was usually--but not always--the male faculty who actually offed themselves.

As has been said, the thought that suicide is an option has helped get many people through some very dark nights.

Kollwitz's "Old Man with a Rope" was on my short list for profile image.

(Remember, kids, if you want to slash your wrists right, you do it along the veins, not
across.)

Craig Howard said...

The homicide rate for transvestites in Brazil is through the roof. Being a transvestite in Brazil and seeking romance without telling someone of the opposite sex will get you killed, sometimes even if you're not seeking romance.

Strictly speaking, that is not suicide.

But, nonetheless, lying about your sex might well lead to danger -- as would any lie about yourself.

iowan2 said...

Bruce Hayden must be a Republican, the man vs woman suicide comparison.

I ran the same facts, as Bruce quick, and came to much the same facts

As an expert due to the my training watching cop shows, and reruns of all the CSI's, +NCIS, I know that men choose guns, and women choose drugs. Both methods are equally fatal. Conclusion, women want attention, not the sweet release of death.

Greg the Class Traitor said...

RideSpaceMountain said...
The homicide rate for transvestites in Brazil is through the roof. Being a transvestite in Brazil and seeking romance without telling someone of the opposite sex will get you killed, sometimes even if you're not seeking romance.

You write that as if it's a bad thing, when it's not.

Doing that is rape, esp. in the male pretending to be a female case.

That's akin to knowingly being HIV positive and having sex with someone without warning the person about it first.

Both are things where killing the malefactor is an entirely appropriate response

Hassayamper said...

It's really shocking how hypocritical and cowardly and greedy the medical profession has been about this fad.

Medical students have medical ethics drilled into their heads again and again, learning all about the shocking misdeeds of their forebears in the profession. Paternalism, coercion, scientific fraud, Dr. Mengele, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, Unit 731, frontal lobotomies, lack of informed consent, MK Ultra, the Titicut Follies, thalidomide, Soviet psychiatric hospitals, and on and on and on. If they work for any kind of organization larger than a small private practice, they will also have annual or biennial compliance certification that repeats these themes.

The bottom line is that the more risky and unproven a given treatment is, the more thorough and careful the studies must be before it is made part of general medical practice. That has NOT been done. It's hard to imagine a more life-changing intervention than sterilizing a child before they have had a chance to reproduce, removing their organs of generation, constructing a laughably poor, infection-prone simulacrum of the genitals of the opposite sex, obliterating their ability to enjoy orgasm, and creating an uncanny fake that 95% of normal men and women will never find sexually attractive. (Millions of years of evolutionary reproductive success will never be overcome by shrieking Twitter mobs)

For some reason, the medical establishment has decided to take a giant shit on everything they have been teaching in the field of medical ethics for the last fifty years. The scientific backing is unbelievably flimsy for such a grave and irreversible step, often with follow-up periods of only a year or two. The researchers, hospitals, and medical associations seem to be completely in thrall to the fanatic political activists and mentally ill mothers--almost always mothers--who are driving this madness.

Lawsuits are coming, lots and lots of them, both individual and class-action, when these poor children are old enough to realize how badly they have been injured and swindled by those that they should have been able to trust the most. Physicians and surgeons are going to lose their licenses and go to prison. I predict here and now that we will find out that over any reasonable term of follow-up, say ten years or more, there will be far more misery, dysfunction, and suicide among those poor innocents who have been subjected to this mutilation than those who were not.

This folly, this madness, this intolerable Jacobin orgy of diabolical evil will be in the medical-ethics textbooks for ten thousand years to come.

Paul said...

Temp Blog said...

"Mentally ill people commit suicide, and the ineffective "treatment" is ineffective. And we're surprised the narrative makers are creating a narrative devoid of fact?"

Absolutely correct. These male cross dressers are mentally ill and I have no doubt the suicide rate is quite high. And so instead of keeping a low profile so they could live a life in peace they instead come out of the woodwork and shove it in everyone else's face and...that really piss off a lot of people.

Hence Target & Bud Lite... and no doubt will lead to even more suicides.

Tough nuts.

Paul said...

Temp Blog said...

"Mentally ill people commit suicide, and the ineffective "treatment" is ineffective. And we're surprised the narrative makers are creating a narrative devoid of fact?"

Absolutely correct. These male cross dressers are mentally ill and I have no doubt the suicide rate is quite high. And so instead of keeping a low profile so they could live a life in peace they instead come out of the woodwork and shove it in everyone else's face and...that really piss off a lot of people.

Hence Target & Bud Lite... and no doubt will lead to even more suicides.

Tough nuts.

wendybar said...

Mason G said...
"The absence of data is especially unfortunate now..."

It's not like it would be impossible to collect the data. If it doesn't exist, it's because somebody doesn't want it to.

6/1/23, 1:50 PM

THIS^^ It's just like how nobody knows how many people died BECAUSE of the Vaccine, but they know it is happening, and they hide the truth from us. It's not unusual for us to be kept in the dark about such things...

Ancient Mariner said...

"rhhardin said...
It's not by accident that Tod and Mort are male names.
6/1/23, 3:45 PM"

LOL! ISWYDT.

MadisonMan said...

I'm reminded of undergrad days, when the 10% Society was named that because of the claim 10% of people were gay. Of course, the true number is much less than that.
Too many people (I won't claim a percentage) hear numerical factoids and believe them.

Narr said...

I read that a lot of Trannies are killing themselves injecting Bud Light straight into their temples. What a terrible way to go.

mikee said...

Way back when this was being ginned up as a political issue, reference was made in several publications to a long term Johns Hopkins study of their hospital's own gender dysphoria patients. Not the Swedish study, but a JH patient review. Hopkins found that sexual reassignment surgery patients had a higher suicide rate than those treated with counseling, and this finding led that hospital to stop gender reassignment surgery decades ago.

This study is based on cases from decades ago, so its relevance today may be questioned, but it is a firm data point and the sort of study that is necessary to find for or against gender reassignment surgery. In the absence of another study of such rigor that finds differently, one might suggest that the previous results are still valid.

Michael K said...


For some reason, the medical establishment has decided to take a giant shit on everything they have been teaching in the field of medical ethics for the last fifty years. The scientific backing is unbelievably flimsy for such a grave and irreversible step, often with follow-up periods of only a year or two. The researchers, hospitals, and medical associations seem to be completely in thrall to the fanatic political activists and mentally ill mothers--almost always mothers--who are driving this madness.


Yup. I'm glad I quit teaching when I did. This craziness was still in the future.

Pianoman said...

Threat of suicide has always been at the foundation of trans ideology. Without it, the whole thing falls apart.

My first trans encounter was at work, when a colleague suddenly decided, at 54 years old, that he wasn't a he any more. He showed up at work in heels and a dress, demanding that people call him Jessica. When I asked WTF was going on, I was told, "It's better than him killing himself".

So those were his only two choices: Putting on a dress, or killing himself. There was nothing in between.

There is a pattern to this, and I'm not sure it's only on the Left. But we saw it in the COVID response as well. "There's only ONE treatment for this, and that's lockdowns, curfews, and mRNA vaccinations".

Seems like that political side sure do like their edicts and pronouncements ... and they sure do hate it when people try to think for themselves.

PM said...

In CA, thanks to the leadership of State Senator Scott Wiener, D gay, lawmakers are proposing measures to require all public schools to provide an all-gender restroom; require all teachers to receive LGBTQ cultural competency training; prohibit out-of-state insurance companies from denying Californians gender-affirming care and require courts to affirm a child's gender identity when making parental custody decisions. The theme is Free Mom Hugs. Of course, mom hugs. Valde caninam.

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"So often we hear policy arguments based on the likelihood that transgender people will commit suicide as — as if the number is well known (and as if we also know why they commit suicide)."

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
Tell me lies
Tell me, tell me lies

- Fleetwood Mac

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"You got another college-educated white woman in your pocket?"

I had a college-educated white woman in my pocket for awhile (JD, William Mitchel School of Law, circa 1995). She was very open-minded too. It was awesome! And her incomparable wit was the icing on the cake.

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"Why are they ignoring science?!"

They lust for power.

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"As a society, we have lost all intent and rigor to seek and work with truth and honesty. We’re effectively being manipulated by truth tuckers."

I read that as truth fuckers. Is that what you meant? Because as a descriptor, truth fuckers is a spot-on .

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"How do People Most Commonly Complete Suicide?"

I am very happy by nature, but if I were to commit suicide, my method would be to use my credit cards to fly to all of the great cuisine cities in the world, eating everything I desired. I'd finish up in Ess Eff, dining at the Wayfare Tavern (I recommend their fried chicken) and then head over to the Golden Gate Bridge, where I'd look down at the Bay and say to myself, "I gotta do this great cuisine cities in the world tour again!"

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"failing to embrace preferred pronouns"

Mine preferred pronouns are us and we, which are seldom used anymore.

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"If what you intend is attempted suicide, don't put a loaded gun to your head and squeeze the trigger. If you miss the pons and the cerebellum, you may not die, and you may be a very uninteresting person thereafter."

There was a student at a community college in Minnesota back in the 1970s who tried to commit suicide by gun (over a break-up), but all he managed to do was blow his face off. Life for the guy after that was a lot more difficult, and yet, for some reason he never tried it again.

True story. Saw the guy myself.

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"The portrayal by Hanks of an elderly competent person was so spot on"

Well legally, he is elderly (66), so...

Free Manure While You Wait! said...

"It's hard to imagine a more life-changing intervention than sterilizing a child before they have had a chance to reproduce"

America, sterilizing the mentally ill since 1907.

"Passage of Laws

Indiana was the first state to pass a compulsory sterilization law, with the law coming into effect in 1907 (Stern 2007, p. 7). After this law was struck down in 1921 by the Indiana Supreme Court, there was an attempt to pass a new sterilization law in 1925 which sought to reinstitute eugenic sterilization in Indiana through the creation of a state eugenicist, but this effort was defeated in the Indiana Legislature (Lantzer and Stern 2007, pp. 9-10). Shortly thereafter, the legislature succeeded in passing a second law in 1927. This law was expanded in 1931, and eventually repealed in 1974 (Baldanzi et al).
Groups Identified in the Law

The first law, in 1907, targeted: “’confirmed criminals’, ‘idiots’, ‘imbeciles’, and ‘rapists’”. The second law, in 1927, was somewhat more limited, confined to the “’Insane’, ‘feeble minded’ or ‘epileptic’”. There was thus a shift in emphasis, from the mentally ill and serious criminals to only the mentally ill.

Source: University of Vermont

Narr said...

Truth tuckers works too. Let's tuck and pretend.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about other people killing themselves. There seem to be many social problems that I'm supposed to be concerned about or somehow share some collective guilt for their existence. I struggle to understand how I matter that much.

There were many fewer suicides when it was shameful and a sin leading to damnation. If we aren't going to condemn self-murder, then I suppose it's not that important.

I've known people who have ended their lives either deliberately or by undertaking a lifestyle with the inevitable consequence being death many years early.

If being transgender is this dangerous, perhaps it's a bad idea!

Greg the Class Traitor said...

So often we hear policy arguments based on the likelihood that transgender people will commit suicide as — as if the number is well known

As others have pointed out here, it's not known, because tech people who would be collecting the information / publicly distributing it (academic social scientists) either fear, or know, that honest data would destroy their agenda.

Probably because the suicide rate for those who've had sex changes is higher than the suicide rate for those with gender dysphoria as a whole

n.n said...

He points out that the Swedish study found over 30 years that the suicide rate after surgery went up by a factor of twenty. Not 20%, 20X! These people pushing these surgeries are incompetent and evil. Why are they ignoring science?!

Compound error.

Hopkins found that sexual reassignment surgery patients had a higher suicide rate than those treated with counseling

That's the one. As I recall, they concluded that a minority may received some benefit, but there was no scientifically valid method to predict that minority, and the majority who would experience further harm.

Gender-affirming care is another wicked solution in the modern model of planned parenthood a.k.a. abortion a.k.a. reproductive/human rites.

n.n said...

In CA, thanks to the leadership of State Senator Scott Wiener, D gay

The same thing happened when the trans/homosexual judge overrode democracy to equate couples and couplets in marriage, then Democrats took affirmative action to affirm the principle of political congruence ("=") or selective exclusion through passage of the "Respect for Marriage Act". RFMA is not another wicked solution (e.g. abortion, gender-affirming care), but is exemplary of the legacy of bigotry represented by Democrats in the model of diversity (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry).

JohnnyL said...

"Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it
If I please"