But having made the criminalization of abortion a central axis of their political project for decades, Republicans have no obvious way out of their electoral predicament....
They've had decades to observe the arrival of the "predicament." What was the plan? They spent 50 years taking advantage of millions of voters who are committed to a clear moral principle that is not subject to compromise.
Republican attempts to moderate abortion prohibitions even slightly have, for the most part, gone nowhere.... In the weeks before the Wisconsin election on Tuesday, Republican lawmakers introduced a bill providing some narrow exceptions to the state’s abortion prohibition for cases of rape, incest and grave threats to a pregnant person’s health, but they lacked the votes in their own party to pass it....
It's been obvious all along that from a pro-life position, the unborn has a right to live, however it was conceived. In the mind of these voters, there can be no rape and incest exception.
Goldberg asserts that "conservatives fell for their own propaganda about representing 'normal' Americans." By "normal," she means people who are not "especially bothered" by the Supreme Court's revocation of the abortion right.
But, come on. Even if it's true that most Americans are content to avert their eyes from the personal problem that is an unwanted pregnancy,* there was a large, distinct bloc of voters for whom the issue was crucial. It's hardly a majority of voters or even a majority of those who voted Republican, but it's a necessary bloc, without whom Republicans can't win. Republicans were fools not to see they were running headlong into this political calamity.
The only explanation I can think of is that they trusted the Supreme Court never to give them what they've been saying they wanted. Here, you can put the blame where it's so popular to place blame these days: Trump. Or, as I'd put it, Trump and death.
Who would have thought that in 1 term a President would have 3 Supreme Court seats to fill? And then it fell to Trump — that cosmic oddball — and he didn't carefully choose conservative-seeming characters who'd game out a post-Roe world and keep the Republicans out of a jam. He picked names from a Federalist Society list. Surprise!
________________________
* This is why it made sense to frame the right as a right of privacy and to see the decision-making as the domain of the person within whom the pregnancy existed.
Posts
86 comments:
They're not called "the stupid party" for nothing.
So Republicans are evil and stupid because they value life over politics?
Even if rape or incest exceptions are controversial, why would a grave threat to the mother exception be hard to get? Do we really want motherless children being born?
Recognize the unborn baby's humanity and let "liberals" try to deny that and classify her as property.
The deliberate killing of a viable fetus is murder. Nothing less, no amount of argument or mental gymnastics obscures that fact. This is not a religious argument, but a a biological fact.
The question that plagues politicians is when and how is this killing acceptable. We the people elect these amoral scumbags to do our will. What trimester and method of this killing of a viable fetus is acceptable to all Americans? This question should be settled by the voters, not nine distant judges.
And so, the states are making the laws concerning abortion as per the will of the voters and in accordance with the Constitution of the United States. If you do not like these laws, you can either move to a different state with different laws or roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty electing the amoral scumbag that suites you and your viewpoint on abortion.
Running your mouth without making any effort is mere noise.
This is why it made sense to frame the right as a right of privacy and to see the decision-making as the domain of the person within whom the pregnancy existed.
That depends on what you mean by "right." I now have the right to do sports betting because my state no longer forbids it, but I can't claim an absolute and inalienable right to put money on the home team. Talk about rights escalates into a clash of absolutes, because we think of rights in absolute terms.
Ah, another day, another Republicans are to blame for not having a plan. Alright then, keep voting Democrat as your plan. I'm not the one living in Wisconsin thinking where to move.
The pendulum went WHOOSH from left to right with no pause in the swing.
Americans want a moderate, libertarian-styled middle. Whichever side seems furthest from that standard will lose. Right now, that's the GOP.
And I think you're right. The GOP never wanted this solved and didn't plan. Trump upended everything.
Well!
the NYTs says that republicans are BAD! and Wicked! and EVIL! and Stupid!! Did NOT see that coming!
Professor althouse agrees with the NYTs! Did NOT see that one coming either!
</sarc
The only problem I see for pro-lifers is that conception does not work as a criminal law, since no human being knows when conception happens in any particular pregnancy.
That's why the Texas attorneys in Roe v. Wade did not argue for conception, they argued for implantation (when the zygote attaches to the walls of Mom's uterus -- roughly 7 to 10 days after conception).
If we focus on the homicide issue, then the standard has to be brain activity in the unborn child, as that's the legal standard for human death in all 50 states.
I don’t think this is unexpected, nor a calamity. SCOTUS placed the topic in the hands of 50 states. That’s where the Constitution requires it to be. The decision re-started the debate that was quashed by Roe. It’s healthy to have this debate. It’s free speech, no? The States will thrash then settle on a compromised solution. This should have happened 50 years ago.
Abortion: The Republican slayer.
They love dying on that hill.
I agree with Althouse.
The plan was that the Supreme Court would never overturn constitutional abortion rights, so the GOP and the Dems could use the issue to raise money and get voters to the polls. Then the Supreme Court did just that, and the Dems continued to raise money and get voters to the polls, while the GOP watched the right to life people high-five each other and go home. Oops! High-fives and snap-back laws are not good politics. Now we are going to find out what happens when the issue is returned to the states: the most radical pro-abortion laws on the planet in many places.
I have thought this for a long time, as I watched abortion rights kill the Illinois GOP. Years ago I noted that while I (a moderately pro-choce person) had voted for numerous right-to-life candidates, my relegation of my personal beliefs to secondary status on the issue was never reciprocated by right-to-lifers in the Illinois GOP. Result: Illinois is totally controlled by Dems with no effctive opposition, and today the Dems run on protecting abortion rights in the most pro-abortion state in the country. In this week's municipal elections in Chicago all Dems vowed to protect abortion rights. (They are not under threat in any way.)
This is going to reduce the GOP to a regional party in the Bible Belt, and even the Bible Belt isn't what it was 25 years ago.
Wow it’s all Republicans fault because “we” wouldn’t compromise with the Democrats who insist on abortion up to and after the baby crowns. Sure Althouse. It’s just the damned republicans who won’t compromise. That’s such a rational argument!
Alito is a Bush pick.
15 weeks. A good plan that is being done in other countries. ..these people will not stop until they can kill their 1 year olds.
After it became a state issue, it has to work its way through. Of course the eGOP is freaked out, they want abortion and open borders. Too damn bad.
Time for good Christian and Jewish men to re-establish the patriarchy and regain control of every aspect of society.
The starting point is attending Sabbath services every week at an orthodox, traditional church or temple.
Conservatives objections against abortion are not a political position that was calculated to garner votes. We are against abortion because it is the taking of another life, that of the innocent child. The fact that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided and created a right that wasn't recognized in our Constitution was a legal position. Neither of those two positions are political ploys.
I seldom do this but who cares what Michele Goldberg thinks? She has, over the years and about many issues lectured Republicans on how they need act and think like Democrats to be successful. *Yawn*
Privacy? For sure...
Just like what a Roman paterfamilias did with--or to--his own slaves in the privacy of his own home was beyond the reach of the law, why shouldn't killing babies be similarly privileged, as long as you do it quietly and don't shout about it afterwards?
Is it a “predicament”? I don’t consider it a predicament.
I am willing to live with what my fellow voters want to do. I am not willing to support corruption of the processes of government, whereby 9 voter-remote judges peer into the radiating invisible force fields of the U.S. Constitution and declare that they see something - an outline shadow of a right - that no words in the U.S. Constitution provide. Can the U.S. Constitution be amended to provide an express right to abortion? Certainly. And if that process were followed, I’d be fully supportive of the outcome. Just as I am supportive of what state legislatures and state courts do. And that is the point: this is the United States of America, not the imposed legal feudal system of Washington DC. Neither does it need to be an endless eventual struggle between Democrat Party and the GOP. Aren’t you all tired of the incessancy of that struggle. I know I am.
For some of us, it truly was a fight about process, not substance. The system gets corrupted when you believe that the substance of your policy preference is so important that it warrants corrupting the system. I’d rather stand on firm principles and lose votes, than stand on shifting sand and try to win every vote.
Let’s game this out. Suppose that the Democrats won every vote, every election in the next decade. Would all strife, poverty, and sorry end then? Do any of you believe it would? Does Ms. Goldberg believe it would? Then why choose to view the world only through the structure of Democrat/GOP?
Gosh, what happened to birth control?
Both the GOP and the Dem, heck the entire global managerial class, suffer from the same problem: their constant refusal to accept short term pain in order for long term good. Instead, they doubled down on short term solutions, wild promises, and fraud, in order to keep in power.
It is the only actual principle these guys wanted. They did not fuck around the moment the could.
Glenn Beck and his gang are quite proud of pointing out how they don’t care about any elections, now or future. Cause abortion law was sent back to the states. It’s a common refrain among conservative politicians. To not think there is an electoral price to pay is idiotic. Doesn’t matter the facts or thousands of years of religious belief.
"Republicans were fools not to see they were running headlong into this political calamity."
Well, to be fair, it's called "The Stupid Party," for a reason.
Althouse in her ghoulish kill the babies mode.
"Republicans were fools not to see they were running headlong into this political calamity."
Well, to be fair, it's called "The Stupid Party" for a reason.
The plan of both parties was to fundraise on the issue while doing jack-all to resolve it, to use the issue to demonize the opposition & create strongly motivated activists. The Dems can continue doing so. Repubs can't
...and he didn't carefully choose conservative-seeming characters who'd game out a post-Roe world and keep the Republicans out of a jam.
Trump is a cosmic oddball for appointing judges rather than politicians to the Supreme Court. People who understand that their job is to follow the constitution, calling balls and strikes, rather than following their own ideology and doing what it takes to help the party that will advance that ideology.
This quote confuses me:
"but they lacked the votes in their own party to pass it"
Who is "they" in this sentence? It's not "the Republicans", because if there aren't votes for these exceptions, it means that the "the Republicans" don't actually support these exceptions.
I think "they" actually refers to a small group of old-school Repubs in frequent touch with journalists who are actually the marginalized part of the party. Meanwhile, the Republicans (as a group) are plunging forward with national bans, bans on interstate travel, etc.
The Republican plan for many years was O'Connor, Kennedy, Souter, and Roberts. The Federalist Society plan is to achieve equilibrium at the state level. Republican candidates in prochoice states or districts will have to become prochoice or lose. There will have to be a round of losing before the prolife base learns, and there is a question of whether they will stay with the Republican Party when they do. But where can they go? And how long will this readjustment take?
I recall debates right here in the comments sections over the years about what could happen if abortion were to become illegal. I heard many say it would never become illegal or I heard there would always be exceptions, or I heard that it was silly to imagine a society in which women would not just be able to go to another state to have an abortion, there are states that are trying to pass legislation that would make it illegal for ADULT women to go to another state for an abortion.
Who thought that mifepristone would become unavailable, now with the Texas judge’s ruling, the drug will be illegal in every state. What happened to state’s rights? Such hypocrisy. The agenda is to roll back women’s rights and minority rights, we are seeing rightist majority state legislatures pass laws that are more regressive than anyone could have imagined. We see rightist ideologies in judges and SC Justices who make rulings that affect the entire nation.
Now that rightists are losing one election after another, some are having regrets about what they’ve called for for years. Now they are seeing the backlash. It may take a few election cycles, but with increasing numbers of younger voters every year, the rightist extremists will eventually be voted out. Supermajorities won’t always be Republicans, think about that.
A tag could be “What Trump did to the country”. He gave extremists a platform. He empowered them. Now we see what happens.
Well, let's be clear; this is another major headwind (along with multiple criminal investigations, civil trials, ever-more evidence of his own sociopathy, etc., etc., etc.) for Trump's 2024 chances. The Trump Administration installed Judge Kacsmaryk, the Texas plaintiff set up business in Amarillo and went to extraordinary lengths to judge-shop for Kacsmaryk, and now Trump will be held responsible, rightly or wrongly.
Even Trump gets this! Recall his comments earlier this year, after the underwhelming performance of Republicans in the '22 midterms. Trump said: “It was the ‘abortion issue’, poorly handled by many Republicans, especially those that firmly insisted on no exceptions, even in the case of rape, incest, or life of the mother, that lost large numbers of voters.”
So what would a real, talented leader do? A good political mind would find a way to articulate the Federalist Society position. That this is a good thing, to not have federal courts inventing ways to federalize abortion laws. And thanks to conservative justices, we now have a good opportunity to use the states as 'laboratories of democracy' to develop sensible practical acceptable reproductive laws. But Trump isn't any sort of a talented politician or a thoughtful speaker. He's a feral, reactive animal. Including presiding over a Trump Wing in Congress trying to regulate abortion nationally.
The abortion issue is not the issue that is going to determine the next presidential election.
The current administration is slouching us off to economic ruin and WW tres. Yeah there are bigger issues at stake here than wombs.
Let's give in on mutilating children too.
Let's open sex-change surgery centers in every elementary school, all funded by public money.
Give the people what they want.
Principles are for suckers...
I'm ok with losing some blue state elections to save the lives of as many babies as we can and to at least try to preserve the integrity of the U.S. Constitution. If Wisconsin voters don't value those things, then they reap what they sow.
What “predicament”?
That the world is evil and people are sinners, rebellious against God? That predicament?
Oh, no, you meant that Republicans should follow the Democrat lead in approving the most vile of ancient rites, sacrificing your children to Molech. THAT predicament.
Well, no. Right is right, truth is truth, despite majorities. There’s a lesson, a Biblical lesson, to be learned here: people are NOT moral apart from a universal, objective standard. Oh, they CLAIM to be, don’t they? They lie to themselves as well as everyone else.
So, no, this isn’t a predicament, unless all your politicians care about is appeasing the mob.
For the rest of us, a sorrowful minority, Truth matters..
This American Life is on abortion this morning.
“…it made sense to frame the right as a right of privacy and to see the decision-making as the domain of the person within whom the pregnancy existed.”
So when does the mother have to surrender her autonomy and instead protect the right to life of her unborn guest?
When do the rights of the latter vest? Or do they ever?
Come on. Let’s get down to brass tacks here.
I think they understand 'normal' Americans.
But in the post-modern age of woke narratives, they may be overestimating how many Americans are still normal.
Haha, exactly. I knew some local GOP legislators and they were *so happy* to tell voters that the issue was out of their hands. Sorry, folks!
That stopped working for them about 10 years ago as incrementalism took over. Then they became "RINOs." It's almost been worth it to watch all the hilarity ensue after Dobbs.
So far the MT legislature is flying under the radar compared to Tennessee and Idaho..
Yes, the right of privacy, to commit homicide in privacy, to relieve personal "burdens", to genderfy and exploit women and girls (e.g. two men and a womb), when you can get away with it is a human right and rite with diverse precedents.
Rape and conception is a form of slavery, which Democrats have ranted about with handmade tales of rape... rape-rape culture.
Incest is a form of superior exploitation ranted about by feminists in handmade tales allowed by social progress and an inferior form of slavery.
Social progress should be discouraged. Six weeks to baby meets granny in biological and legal state. The performance of human rights, witch hunts, warlock trials, baby-cues, etc. should generally be discouraged for social, redistributive, clinical, political, criminal, and fair weather progress.
The wicked solution is neither a good nor exclusive choice. Medical professional should have a life bias for all human lives in their care.
Another middle aged white woman who is obsessed with abortion. Republicans have spent years trying to get birth control pills made an "over the counter" product. The Democrats fight this with the backing of the abortion industry. The abortion industry is opposed to a 15 week rule because 15 week fetuses don't have saleable parts. That's why the abortion until birth is so important to them.
As someone who considers themselves Pro-life, but moderately (it sounds a little silly phrasing it that way), I've always felt that abortion is primarily a cultural problem. Passing plenary abortion restrictions and expecting everyone else to fall in line and for those restrictions to have long-term durability is putting the cart before the horse. Tens of millions of Americans very strongly believe in a woman's absolute right to have an abortion at any time. These people are not going to abandon their positions just because the laws changed, and chances are their positions will grow even more strident in the wake of abortion restrictions.
So, Ann, it's okay with you that the courts play politician and make their decisions based on their personal preferences and concern for the ramifications rather than the "law". Roe was a bad decision that violated the principles of the Constitution. If it had not been rammed through we would have had 50 years for the states to adapt to the publics changing feelings on abortion. Instead we have the situation you described where both parties took advantage of the absolutists to prevent what most likely would have been a peaceful transition. Both parties continue to do the same today, but as we know popular opinion has shifted over 50 years and the Rs are stuck with what is the generally less popular position. Why you think they might even be smart enough to deal with it surprises me.
To me, it just seems like bad timing.
In time, Republicans at the state level will adjust, and federalism will allow them to do so across the party.
It's a problem of bad timing because Democrats are about to drive the entire country irretrievably off a cliff.
Need a tag called moderate bullshit. It isn't just the right that is beholden to the extreme faction on abortion. Hasn't the left got in just as much trouble when they get caught with going too far with partial birth and even the rejection of born-alive legislation?
And then it fell to Trump — that cosmic oddball — and he didn't carefully choose conservative-seeming characters who'd game out a post-Roe world and keep the Republicans out of a jam.
Fuck the game. We are playing politics with lives. I am sure all the compromising politicians who tried to avert a confrontation on slavery were just playing the "game." And I can tell you that many Republicans who do not care as much about abortion rights would have soundly ridiculed more squishy conservatives on the court. They affirm, as a principle, abortion should not have been a federal mandate, so I don't think most conscientious conservatives are upset that the problem is at the state level. We knew there would be fights. Probably know that very red states would be near bans and blue states would have near total access.
This is why it made sense to frame the right as a right of privacy and to see the decision-making as the domain of the person within whom the pregnancy existed.
I really hate this equivocating type of argument. Under no circumstance is a right to privacy equivalent to the right to deny another person rights and life itself. Does my right to privacy allow me to lock my kids in a closet and starve and beat them? It's my home, you have no right to intrude on what I do there and dictate my choices.
It comes down to one clarifying question which nearly everybody is afraid to answer. Are the unborn, alive and human with inalienable rights? If yes, abortion should banned. If not, no abortion should be banned. Any hedging is a lack of moral clarity.
I tall you. With a total Abortion ban, we have infinite ways of assuaging the challenges posed to the unwanted circumstances. With abortion, we have no alternatives but death. Where is our moral courage to say "We believe in life and are willing to pay the price?"
We live in an age when people get misty-eyed for ten million dollar surgeries that save the life of a little boy, where it is considered wonderful to have a doctor work on any wild animal that has suffered an injury. Very sentimental. Very warm and fuzzy. Perhaps Republicans thought that a majority of people would see early fetuses the same way, not as disposable groups of cells that have no right to sympathy.
Boy, were they wrong.
Demos-cracy is aborted in privacy.
With the Roe fig leaf framing it as a Contitutiional right, the pro-aborts were showing more and more hubris and extreme positions.
It got kicked back to state legislatures where it belongs.
Just because R's are shitty at navigating this doesn't mean it's Trump's or SCOTUS to blame.
"They spent 50 years taking advantage of millions of voters who are committed to a clear moral principle that is not subject to compromise."
Yes, that's how the GOP behaved, but principle not subject to moral compromise may nonetheless be subject to political compromise, as best achievable second-best in this fallen world.
"It's been obvious all along that from a pro-life position, the unborn has a right to live, however it was conceived. In the mind of these voters, there can be no rape and incest exception."
Right. But in many states the alternative is unlimited infanticide, in defense to women's sovereign right to kill at will.
"he didn't carefully choose conservative-seeming characters who'd game out a post-Roe world and keep the Republicans out of a jam."
He actually appointed honest jurists who didn't see it as their task to game out anything. It's the fundamental asymmetry between left and right.
Let's start the discussion with the pro-abortion folks acknowledging an abortion is a homicide. An unborn child in its mother's womb is human. It's not an undifferentiated clump of cells. Homicide is not always illegal. So we can then discuss under what circumstances it should be legal for a mother to request her unborn child to be put to death. I'm willing to have any discussion about things that are based in reality. Just not willing to make decisions based on euphemisms used to mask what's really happening.
How about that little person without whom the pregnancy would not exist?
"to see the decision-making as the domain of the person within whom the pregnancy existed"
But not the exclusive domain. In any other medical service, the state does not give a patient the sole right to choose a treatment; the state always also regulates what the professionals involved may and may not do.
Watching the disintegration of cities over the past few years has been enlightening.
Men aren’t joining the police or the military. College is 60% female.
The birth rate is in the toilet.
And we‘re talking about abortion.
If you think “privacy” resolves the issue, in the footnote substitute “unborn child” for “pregnancy “ as what “exists”.
Republicans are too politically stupid to have created a uniform national response to Dobbs (or other issues). They could have diminished of abortion as an issue.
Nevertheless, Michelle Goldberg is a polemicist who lives in the leftist bubble making stuff up about Republican politics. Although, in fairness, she may have a pretty good handle on the mindlessness of female baby killers.
Imagine a political party that can't govern holding sway over a nation based on killing babies, pandering and race baiting.
"...characters who'd game out a post-Roe world and keep the Republicans out of a jam."
What an utterly bizarre way to suggest the SCOTUS operate.
"Starting?"
Ann's answer takes us appropriately to Desolation Row, and: "All these people that you mention, yes, I know them, they're quite lame."
Ah, more concern trolling from someone who considers Republicans fascists. Whatever.
She has a point in that the Republican leadership should have contingencies for all sorts of developments, but it has become clear at this point that the leadership of the Republican Party are not particularly interested in advancing anything Republicans actually want. They just want to get invited to the correct parties, and divert as much money to useless campaign organizations that have no idea how to win elections but do know how to hire family members of the Republican leadership. That said, I'm not sure how you properly frame such things in the current media environment. The mainstream media is so obviously mouthpieces for the Democratic Party that they make reality for a large number of people, even if that reality does not actually exist. Their lies are believed.
We are getting to the close to the point where this is no longer going to matter, unfortunately. None of the potential end games will end well, at least not in the short term.
They spent 50 years taking advantage of millions of voters who are committed to a clear moral principle that is not subject to compromise
And now the Democrats are binding themselves to millions of voters who are committed to a clear amoral non-principle that is not subject to compromise
Because the Democrat position is "absolutely no laws on abortion up to 10 minutes after birth". Which is a "less than 20% support" position
Because if you have the "right to control your own body", then so do I
Which means no mask mandates
No covid jab mandates
No laws against suicide
No laws against drug use
And any male who gets a female pregnant has the absolute right to say "I dont' want the kid", and then refuse to provide any financial support for the woman, or the kid
Kelly lost by 10% in April of 2020, before Dobbs.
He lost by 10% this week
I'm not seeing the "huge abortion backlash", what I'm seeing is a guy who was too "Establishment GOP" to get the "Trump side" to come out and vote for him.
Which is a crying shame. But not conducive to your argument
Once again, Trump and MAGA screw the pooch.
There are real abortions (the ones that happen) and notional abortions (the ones that might happen). The demographics of real abortions should give Demmies food for thought. Ruth Bader Ginsberg once let it slip that she sorta thought there was a eugenic policy behind permissive abortion.
Republicans should think hard about those who want to protect rights to notional abortions-- the "just in case" people. Those are the people that have killed the GOP in Illinois. They are doing it in Michigan. And they'll do it in Wisconsin too. Permissive abortion laws with reasonable restrictions would have taken the issue largely off the table.
This will take a while to work out. It could have been sorted out years ago if it had been left up to the states 50 years ago.
The Republican Party was founded by people who opposed slavery. The Whigs and others who didn't join the new party thought that Lincoln and his supporters were going too far and too fast. I may have missed something (tell me if I did), but I think all the "stupid party" criticisms of the Republicans on abortion would have applied to the Republicans of the 1850's.
In other words: Stop the political name-calling and endorse a specific policy on abortion in YOUR State.
Given the choice between "no abortion" and "unlimited abortion," voters will choose "unlimited.". That's the simple fact that will turn more states blue. It doesn't matter that you frame it as a moral issue. Abortion is a political issue, and one that has already turned the direction of the country. Democrats are smart enough to ride it to power, and Republicans are dumb enough to help them, every step of the way.
From watching Texas politics, it's obvious that a moderate reigning in of abortions could have been achieved if the Democrats would have agreed to that. Failing that, the moderate Republicans had to work with the radicals to get a bill passed.
I am surprised that no one has challenged the complete ban that was triggered by the Supreme Court decision. There were other state laws passed after that. I thought it was not permissible for a legislative body to bind the actions of a future body.
The Republican Abolitionists really should have figured out that they would lose elections in the South, and not pushed so hard for the civil rights of black persons. And they should have nominated and supported candidates and judges who would game out whether America was really ready for black people to enjoy such civil rights in the post-Civil War era.
What a bunch of fools.
A tag could be “What Trump did to the country”. He gave extremists a platform. He empowered them. Now we see what happens.
The resident dullard sees abortion as a sacrament, like all Democrats. It doesn't matter to these single issue voters that the Democrats are taking the country off a cliff. Banning fossil fuels is insanity. The military is being neutered by DEI and will lose a war. Trump had the economy booming and black unemployment and incomes were showing real progress. Now, the Biden regime has us weak and vulnerable to any enemy that choose to challenge us. That's not mention cities becoming anarchist.
serious question, for the pro-choice people out there..
What restrictions on abortion, would be acceptable to you?
6 weeks?
12 weeks?
24 weeks?
40 weeks?
labor?
crowning?
when the baby starts to cry?
when the baby starts to eat chicken soup?
no time restrictions at all?
if no time restrictions, what about age? parental notification? does the abortionist NEED to be a doctor?
Please let me know: for, You, personally; what restrictions would YOU be okay with?
just asking
"They spent 50 years taking advantage of millions of voters who are committed to a clear moral principle that is not subject to compromise"
Althouse is right although "taking advantage" is a little strong. The Republicans used prolifers as poll watchers and every else where a political party needs boots on the ground. We always knew that many who were using us would kick us into the gutter the instant we weren't useful. We knew there were "country club Republicans" and others who supported abortion. We knew why the Presidents we elected kept "accidently" appointing Justices who supported abortion. We kept on because We knew the right strategy was to return abortion to the states and then fight the issue out there.
Here's what we didn't know. We didn't realize that the "moderate" Republicans would expect the prolife Republicans to do the work and the fighting for laws with exceptions. I understand why interim laws are necessary; I understand that a process of persuasion must take place. But here's the thing. I'm not going to fight for a law allowing abortions and neither will other prolifers. It's like asking an anti-slavery person to work on a fugitive slave act - or even to return fugitive slaves. And when we prolifers don't work on the issue, no work is done. The "moderate" Republicans don't get out there and work out a law with a 15-week limitation which would meet the views of the majority in the US. They could do it but they've been free riding on the issue for years. Now a bill comes due and it's time for them to do some work. And they're too damn lazy to do it.
Rusty said...
The abortion issue is not the issue that is going to determine the next presidential election.
The current administration is slouching us off to economic ruin and WW tres. Yeah there are bigger issues at stake here than wombs.
Bigger issues indeed!
Transgender bathrooms.
Transgender sports.
Transgender school shooters.
Transgender pronouns.
Transgenders in the military.
Transgender drag shows.
The great issues of our time. Tune in for a very special Tucker Carlson Tonight!
JAORE said...
"...characters who'd game out a post-Roe world and keep the Republicans out of a jam."
What an utterly bizarre way to suggest the SCOTUS operate.
--
Constitutional prof!
"I'm not seeing the "huge abortion backlash", what I'm seeing is a guy who was too "Establishment GOP" to get the "Trump side" to come out and vote for him."
--
Kelly had too much allegiance to a supposed non-partisan process. Attacked his primary opponent more aggressively than JP, who for a multitude of reasons attracted megabucks from out of state. For similar purity reasons, eschewed broader R party in kind $$.
It didn't help that "internal polling" was reportedly way the fuck off.
It does feel a bit like Althouse wanted R's to defend us from her own political fixation. "Why weren't you better!!?"
..which might very well be a thing.
Enduldge in my crazy lib ways in understanding that mom and dad R's will prevent me from hurting mysaelf too severely.
What? Where were you???
cfs said...
Conservatives objections against abortion are not a political position that was calculated to garner votes. We are against abortion because it is the taking of another life, that of the innocent child. The fact that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided and created a right that wasn't recognized in our Constitution was a legal position. Neither of those two positions are political ploys.
4/8/23, 9:58 AM
100% THIS^^^^^
Michael K said...
Another middle aged white woman who is obsessed with abortion. Republicans have spent years trying to get birth control pills made an "over the counter" product. The Democrats fight this with the backing of the abortion industry. The abortion industry is opposed to a 15 week rule because 15 week fetuses don't have saleable parts. That's why the abortion until birth is so important to them.
4/8/23, 11:37 AM
And THIS^^^^
Piss off, Chuck.
"Time for good Christian and Jewish men to re-establish the patriarchy and regain control of every aspect of society.
"The starting point is attending Sabbath services every week at an orthodox, traditional church or temple."
I always suspected you had the mind and temperament of a Taliban.
Thank fortune our founding fathers did not.
"Including presiding over a Trump Wing in Congress trying to regulate abortion nationally. "
--
Strong MAGA Trumpers like Lindseed Graham..shooting his mouth off to promote minority status.
Cookie,
Oh, you mean Taliban like John Adams? "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
Mickey Kaus asks if Kelly in Wisconsin lost by the same margin before Dobbs as he did this month after Dobbs.
I'm not going to look at another number until tax time next year, but if he's right the feminist backlash theory may be flawed. After Dobbs voting patterns may not be so different from before Dobbs voting patterns -- the "latest crazy thing the Republicans are doing" just replacing the pro-abortionists fear that Roe v. Wade will be overturned if Democrats aren't elected.
LLR-democratical and Violent Homosexual Rape Fantasist Chuck, fresh off of years passionately, and I mean passionately, defending the Lincoln Pedophile Project, comes out in Full Support of the radical transgender cult which demands full access to children for sexualization purposes.
Gee, how....predictable.
When I was brutally raped by a serial stranger rapist who crawled through my window in 1986, I had to wait six months to ensure he hadn't given me AIDs, given the ERISA testing at the time, and for the first month I had to take pregnancy tests and also be tested for various sexually transmitted diseases, as at least one of the serial rapists operating in Sarasota at the time targeted crack whores and prostitutes. He did, it turns out.
All my friends assured me I must get an abortion if he had impregnated me. My community pressed me to make that choice, and that other choices were, as it were, utterly inconceivable.
Since that time, I have met women who chose to keep a child conceived in a rape. They are, by and large, happier and love that child unconditionally. They heal the world.
It takes a village to encourage an abortion. It takes a very different village to support a rape victim who chooses to keep her rapist's child.
I choose to live in that second village.
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