October 31, 2020

At a Biden drive-in rally, "security involves not just a wand-and-pat-down, but a full sweep of the vehicle. For this reporter, that meant briefly being detained..."

"... and questioned by Secret Service agents after a pair of spent shotgun shell casings were discovered in the rear of the vehicle. (I’m a hunter. It’s hunting season. My car’s a little messy.) Applause lines in speeches are now honk lines. The car horn, of course, allows for limited expression. An outdoor event is also open to heckling, and a band of Trump supporters positioned themselves easily within earshot of the speakers. And they brought their own horns. At various points the heckling horns appeared to provide dramatic crescendos accompanying speeches, while at other times, they were distracting, with Biden remarking on them several times. Then, of course, there were times when the horns of jeer merged with the honks of cheer, creating an ambiguous cacophony." 

From "Election 2020 is so weird. Here’s what Biden’s drive-in rally was like" by Dave Orrick (Twin Cities Pioneer Press). Orrick attended yesterday's rally at the Minnesota State Fairground, which  was "essentially invite-only, with details sent to a relatively small list of party activists."

Of course, your car must be searched before you can get into a drive-in rally. You could have a weapon. Of course, it must be limited to party insiders: Cars themselves are potential weapons. And of course, the horn honking can make a cacophony of the speech.

 I see — in U.S. News — that the horns really bothered Biden:
A group close to the podium where he spoke blasted horns and shouted. Biden... shout[ed] to drown them out... “These guys are not very polite — but they’re like Trump.” [Advocating masks, he ad libbed], “This isn’t a political statement, like those ugly folks over there beeping the horns — it’s a patriotic duty.” 

It was an "essentially invite-only" event and he was reduced to calling people "ugly"? You're speaking to cars, you encourage some honking as an alternative to cheering, but then there's too much honking, and you have to insult people?

I listened to some of that rally on my car radio and watched some of it on TV. What was most notable to me was how much Biden garbled the words. He referred to "Amy Kobuchar" (and never corrected himself). He said a word that sounded like "pussy" (but wasn't, of course). I was saying out loud the things that it sounded like he was saying. Just for laughs. Was I making fun of the disabled, given that Biden is said to be a stutterer? No, I wasn't mocking stuttering. It was the articulation of wrong syllables and the mushing of strings of syllables into near incomprehensibility. 

Why was Biden spending time in Minnesota so few days before the election? The easiest answer is: to help Tina Smith win reelection to the U.S. Senate. It's a close race. She could lose, and it could make the difference in flipping the Senate. Or was he there because there's actually a risk that he could lose Minnesota? I see — in U.S. News — that "Joe Biden says he has learned from the mistakes that Hillary Clinton's campaign made four years ago in the Midwest." He needs at least to avoid a crushing defeat — which I would define as losing any state that Hillary won. He knows the erstwhile "blue wall" states of the Midwest can't be taken for granted. Imagine losing not just Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin — like Hillary — but losing Minnesota too. And failing to get the Democratic Senator reelected. 

But I don't know. Is Biden playing from such a desperate position? He's supposed to win, not just avoid humiliating loss. 

I see in that U.S. News article that Biden will rally in Detroit today — with assistance not only from Barack Obama but also Stevie Wonder. It's another drive-in rally, so people don't really have a chance to see the stars, except on TV.

ADDED: Here are the polls from Minnesota showing Trump gaining on Biden.

65 comments:

Unknown said...

These past few days, Biden's campaign tour schedule... it's just been weird. Going to states he shouldn't be worried about, instead of focusing on swing states. Maybe the internal polls are awful. Or maybe the ghost of President Hillary Rodham Clinton is haunting him.

tim maguire said...

Going to Minnesota to support a senator would show real confidence that he doesn’t have to advocate for himself anymore. Advocating for himself in Minnesota would indicate desperation. Which is more likely to be true? The polls say the first one, but Biden’s months long reluctance to hit the campaign trail for any reason weighs heavily towards the second—Biden thinks he’s vulnerable.

We’ll find out in a few days.

tim maguire said...

I followed your link to the Minnesota Senate race. Am
I the only one who sees a problem here:

Democratic incumbent Tina Smith leads Republican challenger Jason Lewis by just three points, 45% to 42%. ...[Lewis] trails Smith among women by 10 points, 49% for Smith and 39% for Lewis. Lewis has a much smaller lead among men, 45% to 41%.

If he trails women by 10 and men by 4, how is it that he trails overall by 3? Is he the overwhelming favourite in the trans community?

TRISTRAM said...

Fighting the last war, like all mediocre general s. Hillary’s approvals drop with exposure? Into the basement. Hillary didn’t go to Great Lakes states? Go to Great Lakes States.

wendybar said...

Deplorable, Chumps, Dregs of Society, Ugly. (back in the Tea Party days ) Barbarians at the gate, Terrorists, crazy...ect...(look it up) and they say Trump says awful things?? At least he doesn't call voters names like THESE!!

Jersey Fled said...

Biden is not acting like someone who is winning.

"Invite Only", cars only, and little painted circles are cover for the fact that he can't draw flies.

The enthusiasm gap is massive. MN had to cook up phony regulations to keep Trump rallies from exceeding 10's of thousands. And the Trump rallies are arranged sometimes in a matter of hours.

Can anyone doubt that Biden is in the early stages of dementia? Early lids, taking days off, slurring speech and incomprehensible phrases (which incidentally he never corrects. Does he even know he is saying them?. Or is he so lost that he forgets what he was trying to say).

In many ways it is just sad.

cacimbo said...

Obama too! Sure looks like they don't believe the propaganda polls media are pushing.

gilbar said...

"essentially invite-only, with details sent to a relatively small list of party activists"

that's how it was in iowa too. They're Not Rallies; they are photo ops, with people as props

it's just been weird. Going to states he shouldn't be worried about, instead of focusing on swing states.
it becomes less weird, when you realize that that he spends less than an hour at each "rally", reading the canned speech off a giant teleprompter, to a select group off "invite-only" props. There isn't anything that he is doing in iowa (or minnesota) that he couldn't do in his basement... But THAT Would look weird, wouldn't it?
a politician that can't/won't go out into the public; because he is scared of something (covid? nah, being exposed as a brain dead buffoon? oh yeah!)

RK said...

If he trails women by 10 and men by 4, how is it that he trails overall by 3?

That is odd, especially since there are more women than men, and higher percentage of women vote. Maybe there's a correction factor used to include men who said they were voting for the female candidate only because their wife was in the room.

PB said...

The Dems have been freaking out for awhile on several levels. This is validated by the recent extreme examples of censorship by MSM and social media. If Dems lose the senate seat, they lose the state.

Mr. Forward said...

The Biden campaign collects the zeros from each rally and plans to add them to the national debt.

Birkel said...

Trump is ahead in Minnesota.
Tina Smith go bye bye?

Gabriel said...

@tim maguire:If he trails women by 10 and men by 4, how is it that he trails overall by 3? Is he the overwhelming favourite in the trans community?

He leads men by 4. 50% * (-10) + 50% *(+4) = -3

I had to read it a couple of times; it's as if the writer were trying to avoid saying that he leads with men.

paminwi said...

Detroit: where the Detroit News endorsed John James, the Republican candidate for Senate.
But, I guess endorsements don’t matter anymore, right?

RoseAnne said...

wendybar said...
Deplorable, Chumps, Dregs of Society, Ugly. (back in the Tea Party days ) Barbarians at the gate, Terrorists, crazy...ect...(look it up) and they say Trump says awful things?? At least he doesn't call voters names like THESE!!


Have had that discussion with a number of liberal friends. I often agree with them about some of the things Trump says being awful. But when I bring up some of the things Clinton and Biden have said about voters, they just laugh and say "but those are true!"

It all goes back to the old book "How to Win Friends and Influence People". I didn't vote for Clinton or Trump in 2016 and I still find the "deplorables" comment to be just plain stupid. You have to be pretty smug to think insulting millions of people will make them suddenly excited to vote for you.

Howard said...

That's right I think we're sunk. Congratulations to you people you've done it again. Can't wait for four more years of greatness.

Bob Boyd said...

What is the evidence Biden was a stutterer? It might be true, of course, but...

I don't know. Did he stutter when he Corn Pop to Cool it? Or had he already overcome it by then? I'm skeptical.

WK said...

This line made me chuckle.... “ there were times when the horns of jeer merged with the honks of cheer”"... if your group is well integrated it is difficult to discern the cheering from the jeering.....

Sebastian said...

"It was an "essentially invite-only" event and he was reduced to calling people "ugly"?"

Yes. So: phony rally, senile candidate, no quick wit, just angry old Joe.

"but then there's too much honking, and you have to insult people?"

Well, yes, that's what Joe does. That's what he has done all his life to people who challenge him even a tiny bit. He is a mean bastard. Just the kind of guy to bring back "decency." Which for progs means, insulting the deplorables. To them, that's what decent means.

"What was most notable to me was how much Biden garbled the words. He referred to "Amy Kobuchar" (and never corrected himself). He said a word that sounded like "pussy" (but wasn't, of course). I was saying out loud the things that it sounded like he was saying. Just for laughs. Was I making fun of the disabled, given that Biden is said to be a stutterer? No, I wasn't mocking stuttering. It was the articulation of wrong syllables and the mushing of strings of syllables into near incomprehensibility."

Near incomprehensibility, just what we want in a president. And that's when he was presumably reading a speech.

So, Althouse, you've been pretty clear-eyed these last few months. Why in the world would you still be abstaining?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Biden will rally in Detroit today — with assistance not only from Barack Obama but also Stevie Wonder

Well...at least if Stevie Wonder begins to face the wrong direction and speak to the wall, he will have a good excuse.

h said...

A lot of the BLM rioting has taken place in Minnesota and Wisconsin. I haven't seen any speculation about what this might have done (be doing) to turnout and Trump support.

Ralph L said...

If he trails women by 10 and men by 4

He leads men.

I don't see how a tiny, invite-only event helps him. It isn't necessary to be there to get local reporters/TV to cover him since they're all in the bag. Tape everything from the basement, tailor the message to the state. Go virtual AND go home.

ga6 said...

Stevie going to direct traffic?

Eleanor said...

Trump supporters are a lot more fun than Biden supporters. The Trump hearse that follows Biden's bus around is hilarious.The amateur Trump organizers can get more people organized on a moment's notice to heckle a Biden event than Biden can summon with highly paid staff.

Mikey NTH said...

If you are winning you would go out and try to get states that are weak for your opponent. If you are tied you go to states that are in play. If you are losing you go to shore up your weak states.


Based on that I think Biden's campaign perceives that they are in trouble and are trying not to lose any ground while hoping to gain a battleground by luck.

John henry said...

Even though the Trump really was limited to 250, thousands came anyway. They could not get in so rallied outside. Pdjt came out to say a few words to them.

Video here https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/amazing-minnesota-democrat-leaders-try-keep-massive-crowd-supporters-trump-rally-fail-miserably-video/

John Henry

tcrosse said...

I knew a guy in St Paul whose car horn played a few bars of La Cucuracha. I wonder how that would have gone over.

mikee said...

Why will a Detroit rally of 300 cars of party apparatchniks help elect anyone? This dementia patient should go home and have a nice nap.

iowan2 said...

The leftist never have to defend their stupidity. Biden took months and finally was forced to denounce leftist burning down cities. Mostly peaceful protests. Right? But protesters at a political rally is a bridge too far. On top of elected Democrat politicians encouraging their tribe to harrass Trump administration in restaurants. The double standard for leftists is the norm, I should be used to it.

MayBee said...

I had no idea there was a US Senator named Tina Smith. She and Gary Peters must hide out all the time.

MayBee said...

mikee said...
Why will a Detroit rally of 300 cars of party apparatchniks help elect anyone?


That is weird, but I'm guessing it will get on the local news.

Rusty said...

Stevie Wonder is still alive?
I did not know that.
Howard said...
"That's right I think we're sunk. Congratulations to you people you've done it again. Can't wait for four more years of greatness."
God damn right, asshole.


WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

It's Andrew's party.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Soros invested heavily in the labs in Wuhan China. I'm sure it's just a happy coincidence.

rcocean said...

I saw both speeches (he gave one in Wisconsin Too) - basically same speech, same words, same points. Joe Biden can't talk for more than 20-25 minutes. Low energy and sluggish. As Althouse stated, often incoherent or mispronouncing words.

Folks, Joe Biden is 78 years old. He's not fit to be President. He simply can't operate at the energy and intelligence level required for President of the USA. Even if he wasn't pushing a radical agenda, he's simply too corrupt, too old, and too much of a liar. Just realize if you vote for Biden, you'll be getting President Kamala Harris in a year.

rcocean said...

Biden not only lied about Trump in his talks, he constantly claims - without evidence - that Trump is to blame for all the CV-19 deaths and that Biden will "Solve" the CV-19 pandemic once he gets into the White House. How precisely Biden will do what no other world leader has done, is unclear. Nor does he say how he's going to override state laws and the Governors and impose his mask diktate.

Birches said...

From the clips I've seen of both Joe and Kamala yesterday, they don't act like people that are going to be President in a few months.

Remember Obama in 2008? There was a smidgen of uncertainty, but it seemed inevitable. Biden is supposed to be winning by a larger margin than him! Doesn't pass the smell test.

Birches said...

Trump could still lose, but it's not going to be in Wisconsin by 17.

Michael K said...

The amateur Trump organizers can get more people organized on a moment's notice to heckle a Biden event than Biden can summon with highly paid staff.

My son and his kids went to a spontaneous rally in Newport Beach a week ago. Trump was at a donor luncheon and thousands lined the street to cheer his car. No organization and thousands were there. My grand daughter got video of him waving to them.

stevew said...

The actions of the candidates tell us way more about the likely election result than any of the polls.

Francisco D said...

I see in that U.S. News article that Biden will rally in Detroit today

Detroit?

Biden has already racked up 100% of the vote in Detroit, somewhat less than Obama's 110%.

Our LLR election judge will be working the polls, so Biden might get a bit over 100%.

CWJ said...

"That's what he has done all his life to people who challenge him even a tiny bit. He is a mean bastard."

Sebastian has it right. The irony is that Joe is supposedly the most amiable of his party's leadership. They're a nasty, frightening crew throughout.

Openidname said...

OF COURSE the Secret Service will detain you if it finds shotgun shells in your car.

Even if you're a Journalist. With Journalist Privilege.

Yancey Ward said...

I have written it before- the Democrats have likely made a fatal error in hyping COVID-19- the "rallies" Biden holds are deliberately designed to enhance that fear of COVID. The effect is this: their voters are afraid to show up in person to vote, and must, in most states, request an absentee ballot, fill it out properly, and mail it in properly- all the while obeying the security features of the operation. The polling that was done on method of vote indicated that Democrats would vastly outnumber Republicans in early voting- they haven't- Republicans are perfectly capable of voting by mail (or in-person early voting)- in fact, they are even more capable than the typical Democrat. The big difference is likely to be seen in in-person voting both early and on election day itself. I have predicted that a significant percentage of Democrat voters who voted in 2016 will end up not voting this year because of COVID hysteria. Even little Tony Evers is now begging Democrat voters to show up at the polls on Tuesday.

If you watch the two campaigns, it is pretty clear that Biden and Trump's camps both don't believe the public polls. Biden didn't come to Minnesota to save Smith- he came because the state is close enough that he could lose it and it is a loss he can't afford, and if he thinks he could lose it, then he thinks the same in WI, MI, and PA. I will give you an example- the media claim Texas is a tossup state- if this were really true, Biden would be camped out in Texas for the last week of the election because if Texas is a tossup, then all those upper midwest states and PA would be voting for Biden by 10+ points, and everyone would know it. The election is being contested in exactly those same states Trump won by less than 2% or loss by less than 2%, plus Georgia, Arizona, and North Carolina where there are a total of 4 Republican held Senate seats up for contest.

On election night, just watch Virginia and Florida early on- if Biden wins Florida, the election really can be called on election night, and early at that. If Trump wins Florida by more than in 2016 and comes closer in Virginia, then he will likely win at least one of the midwest states and win the election again. If Trump wins Florida by less than in 2016, then we might not know the winner until that Wednesday afternoon, but Trump's chances will be significantly less.

Yancey Ward said...

"Our LLR election judge will be working the polls, so Biden might get a bit over 100%."

Detroit area Democrats used to refer to Chuck as the Stevie Wonder of Republican poll watchers.

Bunkypotatohead said...

"Of course, your car must be searched before you can get into a drive-in rally. You could have a weapon. Of course, it must be limited to party insiders"

Things must be going poorly for the Biden team if they have to worry the party insiders might shoot him.

Martin said...

People do not understand Minnesota. If McMullin's 2016 votes had all gone to Trump (not a crazy thought, given that McMullin was running only as a stalking horse for anti-Trump former Republicans), Trump would have won the state.

Trump is very competitive in MN, and the post-Floyd riots in MNPLS did not help the Democrats.

Francisco D said...

Yancey Ward said...Detroit area Democrats used to refer to Chuck as the Stevie Wonder of Republican poll watchers.

If you go back to my 2016-2018 posts, I referred to him as Sgt. Schultz.

JAORE said...

The question becomes, why a car rally? As you point out it introduces some real security problems.

Let me suggest:
Trump fills stadiums. Joe can't fill the mid-size meeting room at a Holiday Inn. The visual is awful. So outdoor he goes. Visually the 30 people, 15 of them press and staffers in an open space also looks bad. The "we're doing it for Covid" sounds phony as heck. Make that 10 cars and it creates a bigger if not "better" image in an outdoor setting.
The applause from the 15 supporters, staff and likely a few of the reporters sounded pathetic. Car horns fill in the audible gap.

In all appearances people are voting FOR Trump but not for Biden. They are also voting against Trump.
We truly have an election all about Trump.
Now let's hope the "love trumps hate" slogan proves true.

Bruce Hayden said...

“ I have written it before- the Democrats have likely made a fatal error in hyping COVID-19- the "rallies" Biden holds are deliberately designed to enhance that fear of COVID.”

I think that Yancey is right there, for additional reasons. The bulk of the American people are tired of the lockdown, and the COVID-19 security theater. It as significantly harmed our economy, and killed numerous people who couldn’t get life saving “elective” medical help when they needed it. Many of the schools are still shut down, supposedly for safety. But that is, of course, bogus. We know that because school aged kids almost never (low single digits) die fromnCOVID-19. It is because the unionized teachers don’t want to go back to work, but still want to get paid. Everyone knows this except maybe the worst Karens, and other clueless sheeple. The Dem politicians enforcing their draconian lockdown and masking orders know it too - obvious when they, and esp their families, flaunt their rules, with no real consequences. The nakedly partisan actions of the Dem politicians is starting to aggravate many Americans.

We have two radically different views now of the future. Trump is proudly immune to the disease. He survived it, and came out possibly stronger than before (which could, of course, be a consequence of the steroids his doctors gave him). Because he doesn’t have the virus, and probably can’t get it, he has little reason, any more to wear a mask. So, he attends 3-4 rallies a day, speaks massless, and fearlessly, before a crowd that often is wearing MAGA masks, if they are wearing them at all. Everyone is positive and excited.

Contrast that to Biden, a frail old man, who mostly hunkers down. in his basement, presumably at least partially in fear of the coronavirus. When he goes to a (rare) “rally”, the few people there are appropriately separated, through the use of circles that they have to stay within. His/their fear is almost palpable.

Which is the more attractive view - joyously going about life? Or hiding in the basement until the pandemic is over? Trump called this out in their last debate. What is Biden’s solution to the pandemic? Trusting the experts, of course (the same experts who screwed up in the first place). And his big idea of everyone masking around their family members at home, because that is where it mostly spreads. Day 1 he has promised draconian masking mandates. Who wants that?

Which gets to one of Trump’s real strengths. He gets inside his opponents’ OODA loop. He pivots on an instant’s notice. The BideN campaign is very obviously run by committee. This is typically the case with Dems, because all of the important constituencies need to be heard from (which, btw, is how women typically run things). It is worse here, because the candidate himself is really incapable, at least most of the time, during the day, of making good decisions. Something happens, and Trump’s campaign will have a hard hitting campaign ad up a couple hours later. Biden’s campaign meanwhile is always a couple steps behind, always fighting yesterday’s battles. And this includes pushing pandemic lockdowns, well after sentiment has turned against them.

Jupiter said...

"I see in that U.S. News article that Biden will rally in Detroit today — with assistance not only from Barack Obama but also Stevie Wonder."

Release the Negroes!

Dagwood said...

Maybe They were afraid that some of Biden's usual supporters might think they were having a drive-by rally.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

Remember during the 2016 Republican primaries when Ted Cruz criticized "NY Values." He lost big time. Why would NYers vote for a man that just said your values were sh*t? Same thing for "deplorables", "ugly" and "chumps." The Democrats just told half the country that their votes aren't valuable and that the Dems are better off without them.

rcocean said...

I'm hopeful. Hope always springs eternal. Bob Hope's joke was "Hope always springs for cover". But I'm skeptical that Minnesota - which elected Al Franken - and hasn't gone for a Republican President since 1972, is going to vote for Trump.

Maybe, Minnesota is getting less stupid and weird. But I'll believe it, when I see it.

Jim at said...

So now - according to Biden - we're no longer deplorable but ugly chumps.

I am overwhelmed by the unity.

Joe Smith said...

He could have just dialed his hearing aids down.

Turning down his mic would have been a win-win.

Lurker21 said...


Biden is overplaying his hand on COVID. Whoever was president this year there would have been uncertainty, confusion, and mistakes. Whoever wins this month, there will be uncertainty, mistakes, and backtracking. The other countries that we heard so much about earlier in the year and hear nothing about now, the countries that already shut down once, have shut down again. Sure, we social distance. We wear masks. We try to protect the most vulnerable. Eventually, enough people will have immunity. Eventually there will be a vaccine. But talk about beating the virus or surrendering to it, winning or losing, doesn't reflect the reality that whoever gets elected, we will just be muddling through to what we hope will be a satisfactory result.

The back to normalcy appeal isn't working that well either. Official Washington wants back to the way things were, but for a lot of Americans the old status quo ante Trumpum wasn't that great. And the appeal seems self-contradictory. People who care about politics care about it even more intensely and passionately because of the election. Is all that energy and aggressiveness just going to go away overnight if Joe is elected? People may claim to be tired of Trump and his tweets, but I have to wonder if some of them aren't already addicted to the uproar and the election-year excitement -- whether they love Trump or hate him.

Joe Smith said...

"So now - according to Biden - we're no longer deplorable but ugly chumps."

Hey, I resemble that remark : )

RMc said...

We’ll find out in a few days.

As if.

I'll be shocked if this thing is decided before Thanksgiving. I figure it's about 50/50 we'll even have a winner in time for the Electoral College to meet in December.

walter said...

Haven't watched yet, but:
Scott W. Atlas
@SWAtlasHoover
·
2h
New interview. Lockdowns, facts, frauds ... if you can't handle truth, use a mask to cover your eyes and ears
https://youtu.be/4qKti8V4-uc
#FactsMatter #LockdownsKill

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

Al Franken won in Minnesota the same way that Christine Gregoire won in Washington State - the Democrats kept finding "missing" ballots during each recount. After doing enough recounts, three for Christine, the Democrat candidate had magically become the winner instead of the Republican.

iowan2 said...

Al Franken won in Minnesota the same way that Christine Gregoire won in Washington State - the Democrats kept finding "missing" ballots during each recount. After doing enough recounts, three for Christine, the Democrat candidate had magically become the winner instead of the Republican.

I can survive not knowing the results for a few days. I am demanding to know exactly how many votes were cast, by Wednesday morning. This idea of new votes materializing has to be stopped.

Clyde said...

I saw the Biden-Obama rally in Flint on TV. They had Stevie Wonder music to open and end the rally, but the didn't play the most appropriate song for Biden: "You Haven't Done Nothing."

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Mike of Snoqualmie said...
Al Franken won in Minnesota the same way that Christine Gregoire won in Washington State - the Democrats kept finding "missing" ballots during each recount. After doing enough recounts, three for Christine, the Democrat candidate had magically become the winner instead of the Republican.

Close. They both won because the Republicans weren't willing to fight to stop the fraud.

That's not going to be a Trump failure.

Which is why the Dems aren't going to be able to steal this one that way

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Bruce Hayden said...
Which is the more attractive view - joyously going about life? Or hiding in the basement until the pandemic is over?

Bingo. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself!"

Happy warriors win. Uplifting people wins. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt don't win.

I can't think of the last time a candidate of gloom and doom won a US Presidential election. Can anyone else here?